Building Your Payment Story: Are You the Hero or the Guide?

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joseph Casali draws surprising parallels between professional wrestling and the evolution of payment systems. After watching WrestleMania 41, he experienced an "aha moment" recognizing that successful payment transformations follow the same narrative structure as compelling wrestling storylines.

The episode explores Donald Miller's StoryBrand framework, breaking down how every story, including payment innovations like check conversion to ACH and the digital transformation journey, features a character who faces challenges and needs guidance to achieve success. From the National Automated Clearinghouse Association (NACHA)'s early rules for check conversion to today's AI and crypto developments, each payment evolution represents its own hero's journey.

Listeners are challenged to identify their role in the payment industry narrative: Are you the hero navigating change, or the guide helping others transform? The host suggests that recognizing your place in the story can help financial professionals better navigate the continuous evolution of payment systems and build meaningful payment stories.

KEY INSIGHTS

Every Industry Evolution Follows a Classic Story Structure
The payment industry's evolution, from paper checks to digital transformation, follows the same narrative arc as classic storytelling. Just as Donald Miller's StoryBrand framework outlines, payment innovations begin with a character (organization) facing a problem (inefficient processes), meeting a guide (industry experts or associations like NACHA), receiving a plan (new technology or methodology), and taking action that leads to success or avoids failure. Viewing payment evolution through this lens gives professionals a framework to anticipate challenges and recognize their role in the larger industry story.

Identifying Whether You're a Hero or Guide Changes Your Strategy
Your role in the payment industry story—hero navigating challenges or guide helping others succeed—fundamentally changes your approach to innovation and problem-solving. Heroes face obstacles directly, implement solutions, and undergo transformation. Guides offer wisdom and experience to help others navigate challenges. Many payment professionals mistakenly position themselves as heroes when they could create more impact as guides. Being a guide—like Yoda in Star Wars—often creates more lasting impact than heroic action, especially for those with extensive industry experience who can mentor others through digital transformation or regulatory changes.

Success Stories in Payments Are Never-Ending Narratives
Payment innovation represents a continuous narrative where each success leads to the next challenge, unlike traditional stories with definitive endings. Innovations like check digitization and ACH systems solved immediate problems but created new storylines and challenges. Completing one transformation doesn't provide a permanent "happy ending" but instead opens the next chapter. This perpetual evolution requires viewing projects as episodes in an ongoing industry saga. Embracing this never-ending narrative perspective helps maintain adaptability, avoid complacency after successes, and stay prepared for constant changes driven by technology, regulations, or market demands.

Recognizing When You're the Guide, Not the Hero [00:15:40]
"If you look around the room and you don't see the person who's doing this, you are that person. Maybe you're a guide. Maybe you're a guide in the story. And that's not a negative. You're Yoda. How can you get better than Yoda? You are Paul Heyman in wrestling, you are the guide. You're the advisor, the wise man."

Transcript

NEACH - Wrestling Payments –
Building Your Payment Story: Are You the Hero or the Guide?
season 3, episode 9

Joseph Casali: [00:00:00] Who's the hero of your story? Is, is the hero of your story, you. It could be, you could be an innovator, you could be a CEO, or is this story, uh, the hero of your story, someone else. And you become the, the guide. Uh, now, today, there's so many stories that can be going on.

Uh, digital transformation, uh, artificial intelligence, uh, crypto, right? Stablecoin, maybe be legal. Very soon. 

​Joseph Casali: Hello and welcome to [00:01:00] Wrestling Payments. Today I wanted to talk to you a little bit about, uh, an interesting topic, right? The interesting topic is WrestleMania. Whoa. So I had, I had an aha moment. I had an aha moment during WrestleMania, and the aha moment was, it was a great story. There was a great story being told.

It. You know, I, I won't get into details, I don't think folks are really wrestling fans, but they, it was brilliant the way they executed this story and it led me to think, what's your payment story? Do you have a payment story? I. You know, if, if you, you, I've been watching wrestling. This was WrestleMania 41.

I've been wrestl watching wrestling prior to the first WrestleMania. I've been in payments for 36 years this year. So it's, they've kind of run parallel [00:02:00] and it's really fascinating. You know, for example, let's give a little story, right? Here's a little story. Back, back, uh, during the nineties, nacha. The, the national a CH association started making a bunch of rules around the way to convert checks.

It was great. They, they, they figured out the legal way to, uh, take the check and instead of it being a check, it became a source document, came an information resource. You could take the information off the check, send it through the a CH. She didn't need the check anymore. Very innovative. So much effort went into it.

Rulemaking, lots and lots of people together, the implementation process entire, across an entire industry. That's a story, right? That was a story. And then in the early two thousands, check 21 comes along all of the work. That was done, the effort, the time, the, you know, people maybe [00:03:00] had careers based on their expertise in, uh, processing these source documents.

And now they're no longer, they're no longer a piece of paper anymore. They can be turned into an image. Uh, there's multiple stories like that within payments. You know, the a CH was created because their checks were just piling up everywhere. Uh, that's one of the stories. There's lots of stories about why something is something, but the story was they had made some innovations.

They've done some real good, good things. At, at one point they, uh, they had, um, you know, like a whole punched card. They were treating the check like that, so the check could decide where it goes when it's being processed, because it was punched in a certain way. Uh, they created this, this technology that encoded a number on the bottom of the check in magnetic ink.

So a computer could say, who's this for? Oh, it's them. Go send over there, send over there, send over there. Very [00:04:00] innovative, very faster. Um, trying to reduce the amount, the large growth of check volume that was occurring, that were being buried in paper. So the a CH was born. Right. And all of a sudden now you didn't need to send the paper anymore.

You could send an electronic, let's call it a message, right? Today's days we're calling them messages, uh, let's call it a message. They were sending messages through the, uh, secure connections between financial institutions, uh, and the aach H was born. Today it's reached billions and billions of transactions, trillions and trillions of dollars, uh, and it continues to evolve.

So. I just wanted to touch on what is your story? Do you have a payment story? What is your, what do you want your story to be? And I, I'm like, um, I'm like a, a scavenger of knowledge. I, I take a little here, I take a little there. So one of the things I took, uh, knowledge from is a book I listened to, read, [00:05:00] listened to, uh, it's building a StoryBrand and it's by Donald Miller and I.

He just put it in words that, that were made a lot of sense to me, but he was certainly not the first person to say this. He was certainly not the first person to imagine telling a story and how the story goes. But, uh, he put it this way and I'm reading, uh, reading from his material, and again, Donald Miller building a StoryBrand.

It's not my material. I'm not copying it all credit to him. Uh. Uh, here is nearly every story you see or hear. In a nutshell, a character who wants something, encounters a problem before they can get it at the peak of their despair. A guide steps into their lives, gives them a plan, and calls them to action.

The action helps them to avoid failure and ends in success. It's every story. I mean, it's every story. I mean, [00:06:00] sometimes stories are, are a little off kilter and it ends in a failure, right? Or they, uh, they replace the, the, um, the guide. And it's really interesting. This was very informative to me because I always thought I was the hero, right?

Wrestling fan. I'm the hero in my career. I'm the guide. That's my job. I'm supposed to help people, um, get to where they need to go as best I can. Sometimes I'm, I, I can't, sometimes I, I'm really good at it. Uh, but I'm the guide, you know? Are you the hero? Are you a guide? Are you both? Right? Really, really interesting.

So, um, uh, I, I, I've been using AI a lot. AI helped me to write that, but here's, um. And there are payment stories out there. Uh, there's the story of Payments by Rich Oliver available at nacha. Uh, he writes about all he, he, he lived the story. It was his payment [00:07:00] story and he lived it, and he just shares with us how things progressed.

And in the here and now, we've got a lot of things going on. It's, they're, they're big, right? They're big changes, big rule changes, big, uh, uh, economic changes, big political changes. But it's, this is the story right now and later I. There's gonna be another story, and this is gonna be the history of that story.

Uh, it's really fascinating if you get to it. So let's see what this story taught me. And this is again, AI and I got it up on my screen. So, um, I. So we used the, we used this model, right? I found a lot of stories out there. What's your story of payments? There were stories of payments out there. It was great.

But for me, I'm, I'm, I'm really a, uh, an a CH guy. They were card stories, you know. Uh, so I, I, uh, didn't end up with a card story, uh, but I didn't ended up with kind of a framework of a story. [00:08:00] So I've set the stage. Again, my aha moment. I've been watching wrestling for, for over 40 years, and they've been telling, oh, it's great storytelling all the time.

I finally had that. Aha, I get it. This was a story. It was brilliant. By the way, highly recommend wrestle WrestleMania 41. Night number one. Uh. Uh, it had, it had, um, it had everything. It had the guide, it had the, the, the, the, the highs. It had the lows, it had the surprises. It was, uh, and it had the final outcome, which depending on who you are, you think it was good or it was bad.

Uh, but we introduced the hero, right? Who's the hero of your story? Is, is the hero of your story, you. It could be, you could be an innovator, you could be a CEO, or is this story, uh, the hero of your story, someone else. And you become the, the guide. Uh, now, today, there's so many stories that can be going [00:09:00] on.

Uh, digital transformation, uh, artificial intelligence, uh, crypto, right? Stablecoin, maybe be legal. Very soon. So there's a lot of stories going on and there's a lot of stories. You know, just because it's a story doesn't mean, uh, that that hero is the only one facing that story. A lot of folks have solved for a problem, but some haven't even picked up that same problem yet, and they still have the problem.

So, uh, there's a lot of stories to be resolved. Uh. Who's your mentor? Who are you looking to for help? Is it an association? Is it, um, co uh, uh, consultants, advisory groups, nacha, uh, uh, associations? Who's your hero? Who is your guide? Who's gonna help you solve your problem? Realize the challenges? Who's your Yoda?

Right? Really important to have a good Yoda, uh, [00:10:00] star Wars is, uh, if you, if you go back and read the Donald Miller book, he, he goes to Star Wars an awful lot and talks about, you know, a farm kid, uh, finds himself in an inte intergalactic battle and needs to mentor. He finds a mentor in Yoda, and Yoda tells him good, high, low winners.

Uh, it's good, good stuff. Um, but every story could be broken down to, um. Who's the mentor? Who's the guide? And if you don't have a guide, we know what the next part of your story is. Who's the guide? Um, what's the project? How is it gonna transform things? Are you gonna look at traditional methods, uh, incremental methods?

Are you gonna look at digital solutions to, to solve the problem? The tests? What tests are you gonna face during your story? Uh. It, it can include technical issues, regulatory issues, uh, competition, right? Is uh, is a competition competitor coming in, taking so much of the market that there's, there's not enough left to string together and, and compete.

Is that happening? That's the negative, [00:11:00] right? That's the, the guide's gonna tell you the bad things that are happening, um, as well as, you know, could there be an alliance formed? Do you find yourself in a position where you're fighting so hard? Yeah. And there are others fighting the same way. Maybe it's time to, to a lie, and you become a story of, uh, two or three or four.

I don't, I don't know. Just reading the script, right? Uh, this is the script and this is, this is the story. Uh, and, uh, you know, interesting. The story never ends, right? It just starts another story. Uh, so at the, you know, there's a middle part of the story. Where you, um, face the biggest challenges. You maybe, maybe you get to the point where you realize that success of failure is really important in the next stage.

And if you fail, what are the repercussions? Right. So, uh, in, in my script, this is called approach to the, in most cave, uh.

So [00:12:00] in this, in this story we're telling here, um, it's, this is the, uh, detail, the significant challenges of integrating a secure and efficient, efficient digital payment system. Right? Maybe you're, you know, I don't know what you're integrating, what you. What you've put in place of your story, but in this case it's the digital payment system.

You're, you're maybe onboarding instant payments and how, how, you know, what battles are you gonna face in that, that journey? The ordeal, right? Uh, what are the setbacks? What are the rigorous tests to the, the, the, the star, the hero goes through what, what, what's gonna make it hard? Is it gonna be something you saw coming?

Is it something you planned for? Uh, is it something you guide, maybe said, Hey, always remember this part? Or is it just something that comes out of the blue and un un uh, you know, a, you know, a a day you walk in and the president of the country says, we're putting in, uh, gazillion dollar tariffs. [00:13:00] Wasn't on your play card.

Wasn't on the plan, wasn't on anything. Not that that's a negative or a positive, it's just another challenge, right. The reward you get to celebrate the successful launch of your digital payment system, uh, in a positive way when you've, when you've, uh, survived. Right? When you've achieved the goal. Uh, and then the, the road back.

You explain that the, there's continuous improvement and adaptive efforts. You know, think back if, um, your digital payment. Is something that's gonna be replaced in, in three years with a, you know, an AI payment, right? All payments now are AI and they're magic, and they just happen. However they happen, they happen, does it, does it negate the amount of work and effort and achievement you went through to implement your and win your story, implement your solution?

I don't think so. I think this, this is a never ending as an industry. It's a never ending [00:14:00] story of success. That's what I think. Uh, lots of things have happened over time. Uh, I can itemize 'em, but let's use your imagination with what's next. Um, just, you know, after that, right after you've achieved your goal, you know, it's, it's, you know, in the movie, the credits will start going by.

But what's it mean for you? What's the next thing? What, what, what can you do with all you've learned to move on? Is it just, are you going to just, and I don't mean to use the word, just, it's just gonna maintain your system, right? You now become the, the, the Lord of the, the payment, digital payment system, or is it?

You've done so well. What's next? You know we need to put you on another project right away. 'cause you, you managed your team, you managed your resources. You, you found the, the straight line to solving the digital payment problem. What's next for [00:15:00] you? Uh, and then this, this is, you know, sit back and, and recognize you are not the person, the hero who started this journey.

If you're someone new, right? New skillset, new alliances, new guides, new partnerships. Uh, it's, you know, if you asked me a year ago if I would be comparing WrestleMania to a payments career, I would say, no. I'm doing it. Uh, what are some of the insights here? I, I think, I think the StoryBrand, I, I really enjoyed that book.

It was a good read. The guy was a great presenter. Uh, the idea that. There's a guide and you should be looking out for your guide. And you know, it's like one of those ads. If you look around the room and you don't see the person who's doing this, you are that person. Maybe you're a guide. Maybe you're a guide in the story, you know?

And that's, it's not a negative. You're, you're Yoda. How can you get better than Yoda? Uh, you are, you know, uh, Paul Haman in wrestling, you are [00:16:00] the guide. You're the advisor, the wise man. Uh, how did it, how, how are your projects affecting the industry? Are you on a project that is contemporary? You know, are other organizations all trying to solve the same problem at the same time?

Are you ahead of this story? Are you doing things that no one else is doing, but you've, you've looked at the plans, you've talked to your guide, you see, this is great stuff. No one's doing it yet. We're the leader. We are the leader. Uh, great. Um, and if you are, you know, you're the, uh, trying to catch up, catching up is, is the story unto itself, and that's fine.

Uh, find your guides, finish the story. What's next? What else we got? Conclusion. I, you know, it really did, it, it, it may sound weird. A, a 50-year-old man watching wrestling on a Saturday night, uh. Watching a match and going, [00:17:00] oh, now that was a great story. It wasn't, you know, I, I can't tell you how many matches I've watched.

There's, you know, there's parts of a match. There's the locking up, there's the, the rest moves. There's the, hmm, that looks like a mistake. And then there's the, the conclusion. Sometimes there's a swerve. Uh, this WrestleMania had a double swerve, which was just fantastic. Uh, as a fan, uh, I am, I'm a fan. I'm a fan of the good guys.

I am a, a hater of the bad guys. And, uh. If there were bad guys in this match and it was brilliant, it was just so well tell, told the story. Um, as we look at payments, what story are you working at? Uh, looking at, I, at this point when this is launched, we have, we would have been coming back from payments 2025.

I am looking at my agenda for payments 2025. I got multiple sessions, uh, recorded all over the place. I don't know. Which [00:18:00] session I'm gonna go to, but they're my guides. The, the, the sessions for this payments. I went through it last night and I go, oh, I'm, I'm trying to learn that, oh, I, I'm trying to learn that they, they spot on for being a guide for what I wanna accomplish in payments and what I wanna accomplish in payments is certainly not what you wanna accomplish in payments.

Uh, but they're both good stories, right? Both good stories, so I thank you for letting me dress down and take my glasses off and just tell a story about stories. Uh, stay tuned. We got, we got a lot more, um, lot more stories, lot more, more podcasts coming up ahead. Lots of topics. I think I'll be pretty dangerous when I come back from payments with the amount of knowledge I'm gonna gain there.

Uh. Uh, drop me a line if you want to hear more about that. Uh, think about your story. What is your story? You know, uh, who's you? Are you the hero? Are [00:19:00] you the hero, or are you the guide? Thank you. ​