Behind the Network: Treasury Software's Role in Payment Processing

EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali from NEACH speaks with Glenn Fromer of Treasury Software about solving the critical "last mile" disconnect between small businesses and the ACH network.

Glenn shares how his journey from accountant at fast food chains to payment software developer revealed significant inefficiencies in payment operations. His company evolved from addressing bank reconciliation issues to creating ACH file solutions that enable small businesses to participate in the national payment system alongside larger organizations.

The conversation explores why businesses often attempt to build internal payment solutions despite the challenges of ongoing maintenance. Glenn explains that while anyone can write code, the real value comes from managing constant regulatory changes and technical updates – comparing DIY payment solutions to growing your own cotton to make a t-shirt instead of buying one for $10. This practical insight highlights why specialized payment software often provides better long-term value for financial institutions and their business clients.

GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE 

Name: Glenn Fromer

What he does: Founder & Executive 

Company:Treasury Software 

Noteworthy: CPA-turned-fintech innovator who streamlined ACH payment processing for businesses.

Where to find him:LinkedIn

KEY INSIGHTS

The Last Mile Matters Most in Payment Networks
The final connection point between payment systems and end users represents the most critical and challenging component of the entire network. While large institutions focus on core infrastructure, this "last mile" determines whether small businesses can effectively participate in modern payment systems. Like electrical grids that require transformers and distribution lines to reach individual homes. Without these connection tools, the payment ecosystem would exclude smaller players. For financial institutions, recognizing this connectivity challenge helps better support clients transitioning from legacy payment methods to electronic systems, ultimately democratizing access to payment networks.

Software Integration Creates Both Opportunities and Challenges
Modern payment operations increasingly depend on seamless software integration between accounting platforms and banking systems. The dramatic difference between QuickBooks Desktop and QuickBooks Online exemplifies how rapidly changing software landscapes can disrupt payment workflows. As software platforms evolve, businesses face migration challenges that ripple through their entire payment infrastructure. Financial institutions serving business clients need to understand these integration dependencies when advising on payment operations. 

Customer-Centric Product Development Drives Payment Innovation
Successful payment solutions evolve by addressing actual user pain points rather than chasing competitor features. Treasury Software's journey from bank reconciliation tools to ACH file creation demonstrates how listening to customer requests creates more relevant products than following industry trends. This customer-focused approach explains why payment solution providers often develop in unexpected sequences, addressing specific problems as clients encounter them rather than following predetermined roadmaps. For financial institutions, this insight emphasizes the importance of gathering direct client feedback about payment challenges rather than assuming standard solution paths. By identifying the specific payment operation obstacles their clients face, banks can

Transcript

NEACH - Wrestling Payments - Wrestling with Treasury Software
Season 3, episode 13

[00:00:00] Glenn Fromer: if it wasn't written here, if it wasn't built here, it ain't worth, and I'll use the word blank 'cause this is a PG-13 conference, so they don't trust anything. So everyone wants to build their own. and I'm not gonna say good or bad, it's just the, mentality in a lot of places. but we see that, you know, a lot of companies that, that, even the mid-size companies, they really can't justify.

[00:00:21] ​

[00:00:50] Joe Casali: Hi, welcome to Wrestling Payments. I am very excited that I have with me Glenn Fromer. If there's anything in the industry that's close to a friend, I consider Glenn a friend. he's been fun, he's been exciting. He's, he's taught me a lot. Glenn, do you wanna go ahead and introduce yourself?

[00:01:09] Glenn Fromer: Yeah. Hey, Joe, first of all, thank you for having us. Thank NEACH. Thank you for having us and hosting. This is exciting. I, I think fun is an over-exaggeration. but I, I'll, I'll take all the compliments. Thank you very much. I'm currently, I'm with, Treasury Software. we're producer. We're I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll explain more later on.

[00:01:27] Glenn Fromer: But basically, we work with the last mile of the ACH network, for lack of a better. Summarization.

[00:01:33] Joe Casali: Excellent. All. All the first mile. Right.

[00:01:35] Glenn Fromer: Well, the first of all, depending which way you're looking at it. There you go.

[00:01:38] Joe Casali: alright. That's right. This, so we are, we are very casual here. I'd like to almost think of this as the, the show behind the show. So we talk about how the, how the, what is it, how the sausage is made.

[00:01:50] Glenn Fromer: Right.

[00:01:51] Joe Casali: I'm again, happy to have you on here.

[00:01:53] Joe Casali: have to start out with the obligatory. Do you have any favorite ever professional wrestler?

[00:02:01] Glenn Fromer: You, you know, like my music, I'm stuck in the eighties. Okay. So, you know, it, it's a group, it's a collection. It's the Hulk Hogans, the Captain, Lou Albano, Andre the Giant, mill mascaras. so it, it's that era. I mean, I was in New York, 1985, WrestleMania back then, they didn't number them. It was just WrestleMania.

[00:02:22] Glenn Fromer: You know, it's like World War. They didn't number it World War I when it started, you know, it was just World War. So back then it, it was WrestleMania, you know, Cyndi Lauper was there. So, I don't have a specific wrestler that I attached to it. It's more of an era.

[00:02:39] Joe Casali: All right. Well, that's good. That's fun for me. I, came up with the name, my, my coworker came up with the name and it stuck. So I have to ask, who's

[00:02:47] Glenn Fromer: No problem. Joe, who's your favorite wrestler?

[00:02:49] Joe Casali: Ooh. Ooh, that's a good question. I, I, I'll go with Sting right now. Sting was great.

[00:02:56] Glenn Fromer: That's fine. Okay.

[00:02:59] Joe Casali: yeah, he was good.

[00:03:00] Glenn Fromer: We'll take it from there. Thank you.

[00:03:01] Joe Casali: alright, so, you know, it's interesting, I, I'm thinking as I'm sitting here,

[00:03:05] Glenn Fromer: Yeah,

[00:03:07] Joe Casali: I've never asked these questions in our, you know, meetings,

[00:03:10] Glenn Fromer: sure. Sure.

[00:03:12] Joe Casali: where did you come from?

[00:03:13] Joe Casali: Where, how did you get into payments?

[00:03:15] Glenn Fromer: It, it, it, it was a, for first it's kind of a little bit circuitous type of route. initially, I, I'm an accountant. I'm a CPA by background, and I worked, oddly enough, mostly in fast food companies. I worked at Burger King, McDonald's, Arby's, Kenny Rogers, and fun fact at McDonald's, I actually taught a course at Hamburger University.

[00:03:36] Glenn Fromer: It was called ergonomics, but that's besides the point. and I, I, I worked mostly of, of course we had accounting work do, but I did work with franchisees. a lot of the franchisees were all small businesses and that I'll, I'll hate to word, use word, lay the groundwork. We'll, we'll talk about that in a couple of minutes.

[00:03:56] Glenn Fromer: But, you know, they're all having trouble with their back office systems, their reconciliations. And controls. And I'll tell you this, Arby's, when I said Arby's, we would no better. we were, this is in the early nineties. we were using post-dated checks to collect our royalty fees from the franchisees.

[00:04:12] Glenn Fromer: They were like hundreds, probably thousands of checks in file drawers, and, and they would literally pick the checks for the first of the month, right in the amount for the royalties on the first of every month. I'll never forget it. So that's kind of a little background, going forward, you know, work with these franchisees.

[00:04:30] Glenn Fromer: We saw they had these problems and in 1999 I did have the opportunity of helping start Treasury Software and our main goal. Was, it was very niche oriented. Main goal was to help franchisees, and I'll say small businesses in general, address that bank reconciliation issue. And we work with them. We had some large clients.

[00:04:52] Glenn Fromer: initially we, we, we had a good jumpstart for lack of better expression, and then they started telling us about other services. They wanted, they wanted to create positive pay files, which we came out I think about five years later in 2004. And then the granddaddy of them all, everyone's went for 2005.

[00:05:09] Glenn Fromer: They, they wanted ACH files created and we went ahead and did that. And that's really what I don't wanna use, the word took off. That became our, our signature product line. And you know, obviously we wouldn't be, you know, here talking about anything if, if it wasn't for the ACH Universal. So that was kind of the, I'll say not how I got into payments, but we did,we kicked it off there.

[00:05:34] Glenn Fromer: Most of, like I said, small, mid-size businesses and, and they really just requested, what they wanted. And at that point in time, we had an expression, we said, chase your customers, not your competition. So there's a lot of people out there in the space, but a lot of our development schedule, our, our roadmap.

[00:05:53] Glenn Fromer: Was based upon these requests. Of course, you know, we didn't do everything, you know, everything, you know, they wanted, in other words, you can't really do shrink wrap software. I, I'm sorry, you can't do custom software at shrink wrap prices. but we were, that was really what was driving everything and, you know, when we're onboarding.

[00:06:10] Glenn Fromer: And then once time went on, we did expand of course, past just fast food franchisees and, and c-store operators. And a lot of our clients these days, you know, small midsize businesses, of course we're helping them technologically, you know, get set up, and all that. But a lot of it's just handholding. A lot of these, businesses have never participated in the ACH network before, and so it's like part, I don't wanna say part support, part therapist, but you know, they're nervous about everything.

[00:06:40] Glenn Fromer: And, you know, at, at this point in time, I really consider myself an evangelist of the ACH Network of the Notch Network. it's a great equalizer for small, mid-size businesses. And, and all of us listening on this podcast, whether the part nie, pa, nacho, or just, you know, you're, you're, you're following Joe.

[00:06:57] Glenn Fromer: I mean, Joe, you've, you're a groupie. I mean, I see this all the time and, you know, everyone plays a role in, in the network and, I use this often an analogy. To like an electrical grid, you know, a network or even like a phone grid. But the electrical grid, you've got a power station, you've got, you know, the main power station.

[00:07:16] Glenn Fromer: You've got power offices, you've, you've got transformers, and then you actually have the individual lines going to people's houses and businesses. And, we view ourselves as a part of the network, but we're really working with that last, and, and they call that the last mile. going from the power station, or I should say the transformer to the house, they consider that the last mile.

[00:07:37] Glenn Fromer: And, you know, it's unglamorous, but the point is we view ourselves as really maintaining that last mile, helping the network, with that last mile and, and you know, just maintaining it.

[00:07:48] Joe Casali: So, I, I, you know, I, we, we talked a little bit before the, the, podcast

[00:07:53] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:54] Joe Casali: I, I, there was a bunch of questions, but I'm, I'm gonna go a little bit off script

[00:07:58] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:59] Joe Casali: I got it.

[00:08:00] Joe Casali: I knew you

[00:08:01] Glenn Fromer: Yep.

[00:08:01] Joe Casali: as the ACH software guy,

[00:08:04] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:05] Joe Casali: Had an easy solution. People could make ACH file

[00:08:08] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:08] Joe Casali: Really, really, you know, and, and if I'm right.

[00:08:11] Glenn Fromer: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:12] Joe Casali: Your software sold as a, Hey, you need some, a way to make aach H files here, do this done right.

[00:08:19] Glenn Fromer: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

[00:08:21] Joe Casali: didn't know your, so you didn't, you started more in treasury stuff.

[00:08:26] Glenn Fromer: Yes, yes. I, I started more in treasury and, and we, we kind of just worked as far as a software company. we just worked into ACH and, hope I'm not jumping the gun, but I mean, really a lot of our stuff, I mean, when we started it was everything was, I'll say we were taking data, I mean, exactly what you said.

[00:08:46] Glenn Fromer: We're taking data in, I'll say tabular format, Rowan column format, you know, from an Excel file or a CSV file. We're taking that and we're converting it into an ACH file. certainly not to minimize what we do, but at that point we're really just a conversion utility. We're, we're a tool. And, which is great, a lot of people need that and people still use it, you know, for databases and whatnot.

[00:09:09] Glenn Fromer: but what really helped us in that small mid-size market is, integrating with QuickBooks. And what happened was there's a lot of clients and, and we'll talk about QuickBooks Desktop and QuickBooks online, which is very, you know, controversial. I don't want to, you know, stir up too much controversy.

[00:09:26] Glenn Fromer: I, I know there's accountants listening out there, but, QuickBooks Desktop. What happens is, you know, the bankers would tell their small, mid-sized businesses, you know, send us an Aach H file, you know, you know, congratulations, you signed up for aach h Now send us a file and then say, what's an ACH file and how do I create one?

[00:09:43] Glenn Fromer: Well, they, they just, just press a button on your accounting system and they say, oh, you know, we use QuickBooks. And it's not that QuickBooks has lack of resources or knowledge. QuickBooks and, and just public information. I mean, they're a processor themselves. In other words, you know, if you wanna make payments or collections through, QuickBooks, you know, they charge a fee, which they're completely entitled to, and, and they go through there.

[00:10:05] Glenn Fromer: so when we came in, and I don't wanna simplify, but as a general, think of us almost as an add-on to QuickBooks. So now you're a small business using QuickBooks, and your banker asks you to create an ACH file. With our software, you can, obviously QuickBooks natively does not. Enable you. There's no feature to create an Aach H file.

[00:10:25] Glenn Fromer: And now that the bankers, and that's, I hate to use the word popular. That's probably the only time I can use the word popular, but the reason why we are popular with the the banks, the US banks is, when I say we're on their side, a lot of times when you hear FinTech, they're competing against the FinTech in.

[00:10:41] Glenn Fromer: In our scenario, we're working with the banks because when the banks have their clients use our software. In essence, we're on their side. We're, we're enabling their clients to send the aach h files to them as opposed to have it go along another, I don't wanna say rail, just another processor basically.

[00:11:01] Glenn Fromer: And, should, should we talk about QuickBooks Desktop versus QuickBooks Online or, no,

[00:11:05] Joe Casali: I,

[00:11:06] Glenn Fromer: that's

[00:11:06] Joe Casali: I think we can,

[00:11:07] Glenn Fromer: right. Let's save that for later. We'll bring us, save that for later. 'cause it's an exciting topic. But go ahead.

[00:11:14] Joe Casali: we'll save that match for later.

[00:11:15] Glenn Fromer: Yes, yes. Yeah.

[00:11:18] Joe Casali: What, what, so the problem, I have a, a note here, the problem you solve, but you kind of, nailed it just a minute ago. The problem you solve was, and is conceptually, this is a hard thing, right?

[00:11:31] Joe Casali: Because, the ACH is a national payment system that the biggest companies in the, the, the nation use churches use. So. Somewhere along the line, the, the, the developers and the software guys aren't in the company. There's no, there's no software guy in a,

[00:11:50] Glenn Fromer: Right. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:52] Joe Casali: no, there's no software guy at, at any, you know, we run into, I, I answer a lot of rule questions and one of the things that come up is ACH files,

[00:12:02] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:02] Joe Casali: And this is a 50-year-old standard that, people. Hand hand the developer, this new developer just learned Python or I don't know what the latest name of the software is,

[00:12:17] Glenn Fromer: Right,

[00:12:17] Joe Casali: learned that. And you say, here, this was, this really works well with cobol. Can you, can you write an ACH file?

[00:12:24] Glenn Fromer: right.

[00:12:25] Joe Casali: Like, what? any, any thoughts on that?

[00:12:29] Glenn Fromer: Right, and, and a lot of people do. You know, when you, I I'll, I'll go from the accounting side and then I'll go out to customers. You know, there's a whole range of accounting packages. There's QuickBooks, QuickBooks Online, Peachtree Great Plains Colas, za in the vision. You know, going up to Oracle and SAP, so you've got that line and it's really exactly what you hit.

[00:12:50] Glenn Fromer: You hit it on the head, you know, you, you roll the clock back. It was very segmented. The participants, in other words, you know, you know, let's say the top 2000 US banks, I'll say the s and p 2000. Sure. All the banks are clamoring for their business, you know. You know, bank a, I was about to name a bank, but I know we're not supposed to name banks.

[00:13:09] Glenn Fromer: So, you know, one bank, you know, loses a client. Another one gains one, one gains one, lose one. And, and it, it's a net sum of zero. There's only so many by definition two, you know, large 2000 banks to go along. And then they got into the scenario that says, wait a minute, we built this entire, structure, you know, whether they're Fiserv, FIS, Jack, Henry, whoever they are, or, you know, home built.

[00:13:30] Glenn Fromer: And they'll say, you know what? We've gotta fill, we've got this. this manufacturing plant that we can handle this capacity, we're using a fraction, let's go drill down. And that's when they started going into the small and midsize businesses. But they found that they didn't have the tools. The, the, the lower end clients didn't have the tools for that.

[00:13:49] Glenn Fromer: And that's really, I'd say where it came in. So if you turn the clock back, well, there were two things. One is the tools weren't there, and second of all, not everybody was using a good funds model. They were still being underwritten. And that underwriting process is a killer, and we see it sometimes even with the national banks, but what they'll do is they'll approach it really from two manners for, I'll say, I, I know just general terms for the lower end clients.

[00:14:14] Glenn Fromer: I didn't mean it like that. For the small midsize businesses, they'll use good funds, for the higher end. they'll go through the underwriting process and you know, obviously they will have. different amounts of, risk and, what's the word I'm looking for? Mount float in the system at any given time.

[00:14:28] Glenn Fromer: Go, what's that amount? float, float, I guess. Whatever.

[00:14:31] Joe Casali: So, yeah.

[00:14:32] Glenn Fromer: Float, whatever. So, we, we, we do see that and, you know, we, we see the segmentation obviously with our tool, with just other processes, process out in, in the, network. We see that demarcation, it's not as heavily segmented as it was 10, 20 plus years ago.

[00:14:51] Joe Casali: So I have, I have lost myself in my, my script, but I, I

[00:14:55] Glenn Fromer: No problem. Sure. Go ahead. Ask. Ask away. I can't answer Romo, but go ahead.

[00:15:00] Joe Casali: Given what we just said

[00:15:02] Glenn Fromer: Yep.

[00:15:02] Joe Casali: the file formats and, and really having, having that access to, Hey, go get an ACH file made. In today's world, any thoughts on, banking technology? So from the, from the company, perspective.

[00:15:21] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:22] Joe Casali: What's happening? I, I'm seeing all this ISO and all that. What's happening?

[00:15:27] Glenn Fromer: Right, right. And you know what I, I realize I didn't fully answer your, your earlier question as far as file formats. So what happens is there are, and I was with the NACHA work group, just solely de dedicated to, to helping developers. there are, and you'll see a lot of companies. There's an expression in the IT field.

[00:15:45] Glenn Fromer: If, if it wasn't written here, if it wasn't built here, it ain't worth, and I'll use the word blank 'cause this is a PG-13 conference, so they don't trust anything. So everyone wants to build their own. and I'm not gonna say good or bad, it's just the, mentality in a lot of places. but we see that, you know, a lot of companies that, that, even the mid-size companies, they really can't justify.

[00:16:07] Glenn Fromer: it's not even just the development. I mean, everybody knows a 17-year-old that knows Python. But the point is, to, to write it, to debug it, to mainten, maintain it, the maintenance, I'll say software wise. As well as, rules wise, the rules are changing, the regulations are changing, we're adding formats.

[00:16:25] Glenn Fromer: And maybe I'll, I'll segment into that. You asked me about, you know, APIs, I guess we'll talk about iso. that changes. So you, you really have to keep up with it. And not only that. I hate to say the rules keep changing, and I don't mean just the nacho rules. I'm talking about Microsoft, I'm talking about, QuickBooks in Intuit online, Microsoft.

[00:16:43] Glenn Fromer: There's drivers, there's platforms, you've, you've gotta daso. we, of course, people are still writing their own software, but when it comes down to it. The, you know, it, it just not common, it doesn't make common sense. It's like anything, you go to Target, you know, you go buy a shirt, you know, t-shirt for $10, you're not gonna start, you know, growing cotton in your backyard, weaving and yaning and you know, it just so you to spend $10, that was a terrible analogy, by the way, but that was the only thing I could think of.

[00:17:13] Joe Casali: I, in my head I was saying, ma, get on the loom.

[00:17:16] Glenn Fromer: Get in the loom. Hey, you guys, production, wait, hold on. I have to call all, I have all the kids in the sweat shop downstairs. They're, they're behind in production. I'm looking at the leaderboard. You can't see it from here, but I've got a leaderboard for these, 12 year olds. But anyway, but as far as file formats, what we see, of, of course, we see a lot of work with APIs.

[00:17:36] Glenn Fromer: what we do is we work with APIs within QuickBooks Online, and I kind of was joking around a bit, but let me address it now. QuickBooks Desktop and QuickBooks Online, the only thing they have in common is the word QuickBooks. They're, they're completely separate animals. nothing even resembling. Now I'm not saying good or bad 'cause you know, obviously I don't wanna get sued by Intuit.

[00:17:57] Glenn Fromer: But the point is, it's a different animal and, to integrate with QuickBooks online, you're using their, let's say, software development kit. You're, you're, or a component and you're using API calls, to get data, to push data back up, as opposed to some of the traditional sources. So, as far as APIs, a lot of banks are writing their own.

[00:18:17] Glenn Fromer: I know there was a push by NACHA at one point several years ago to consolidate, or maybe the better word was to standardize them. I don't know how far that's coming along. We don't get in involved, let's say on the bank side like that. We of course, use APIs as far as iso, as far as 20 0 22. there was a summit.

[00:18:38] Glenn Fromer: There was an XML summit that was hosted by, nacha. I, this is about 12 plus years ago. And it was focused on, CTX with the remittance information. 'cause right now CTX is using, The, EDI, the eight 20 transaction set. And, we of course, you know, adhere to the eight 20 transaction set. That's the, the standardized set.

[00:18:58] Glenn Fromer: But we wrote the, I'm trying to think version one, the draft, of what, the XML would look like within the CTX, within the CTX file. so we have that, tape, you know, we have that talent, we have that, you know, capability. Of course, nothings has changed in there. and it doesn't look like, and this is just from what I hear at the general payments, it doesn't look like not just going away from the current format, you know, the 94 width.

[00:19:23] Glenn Fromer: Format at any time soon. So we really haven't invested anything in there. Of course, when and if, if and when it changes, you know, we're the first ones out there. so, you know, I, I haven't heard anything else from that.

[00:19:38] Joe Casali: And so I'm I'm of trying to watch this from the outside

[00:19:42] Glenn Fromer: Yeah.

[00:19:43] Joe Casali: you hear the instant payments around ISO 2 0 0 22 Fedwire is now going to be.

[00:19:49] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:50] Joe Casali: 2022, chips is on 2022. Swift is on, 2022. And you, you, you ask the question is, is the ACH gonna do that? And I guess to be fair,

[00:20:03] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:04] Joe Casali: is, is, checks. look at that, right? Could checks they have their own format?

[00:20:10] Glenn Fromer: Yep.

[00:20:10] Joe Casali: Could, could that be worked into iso? So the, the answer so far is no.

[00:20:15] Glenn Fromer: Right.

[00:20:16] Joe Casali: and I know this answer from, I teach so you get questions. Why is that someone asked the other day?

[00:20:23] Glenn Fromer: Yeah.

[00:20:23] Joe Casali: 'cause not to formats will hold an EDI,

[00:20:27] Glenn Fromer: Hmm.

[00:20:28] Joe Casali: they'll hold freeform.

[00:20:29] Joe Casali: They'll hold the travel rule data,

[00:20:32] Glenn Fromer: Right. I.

[00:20:33] Joe Casali: and, I guess you were part of the creation of that XML mapping tool,

[00:20:37] Glenn Fromer: was an XML mapping tool that they, it was a, a draft, of course, it was an initial draft part of, for the, for the, summit. And we follow that to program. And it's available. Actually, we, we still have it today, but, nothing, nothing's gone forward with that. Let I say we'll follow, we adhere to all the rules and the regulations, but, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're one entity.

[00:21:00] Glenn Fromer: You know, we're not pushing and we're not,

[00:21:03] Joe Casali: yeah, they, they, my coworker asked me, this week we we're updating our ACH Pro product and

[00:21:08] Glenn Fromer: yeah.

[00:21:10] Joe Casali: is this, is this a real thing? TXP is TXPA real thing? And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, TX p's a real thing.

[00:21:16] Glenn Fromer: People make tax payments. Yeah, people make tax payments.

[00:21:20] Joe Casali: this is excellent. So we don't typically, We don't promote products or anything, but you know, you, you guys nailed it. You nailed a, you have a, from, from, from what I know about ACH formats. I

[00:21:31] Glenn Fromer: Thank you. No problem. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:35] Joe Casali: You do IAT too, don't you?

[00:21:36] Glenn Fromer: Yes, we do. IAT Yes.

[00:21:38] Joe Casali: I mean, and if so, I rec anytime someone's, I, I don't know. This is like a full fledged ad.

[00:21:44] Joe Casali: Anytime someone

[00:21:45] Glenn Fromer: I, I wanna adhere, I wanna adhere to all regulate. We, we love you guys. We, we appreciate dear hair, but don't, don't worry. You don't have to. yeah. no, it's all good. I, I, I don't know anyone's gonna yell at me. So, okay.

[00:21:57] Joe Casali: anytime someone says, oh, we're looking for something, for someone to I, you know,

[00:22:02] Glenn Fromer: Okay.

[00:22:03] Joe Casali: I don't know. Another, I don't know, another small business focused solution. and in regard to that QuickBooks conversation, I don't know, QuickBooks from the industry perspective.

[00:22:14] Joe Casali: NEACH uses QuickBooks

[00:22:17] Glenn Fromer: Yep.

[00:22:18] Joe Casali: Desktop.

[00:22:19] Glenn Fromer: Right.

[00:22:20] Joe Casali: I ran a side business with my son and we used QuickBooks online.

[00:22:26] Glenn Fromer: Yep.

[00:22:26] Joe Casali: My accountant will not let us leave Desktop

[00:22:31] Glenn Fromer: Right,

[00:22:32] Joe Casali: I had no choice but to buy QuickBooks It's a, I mean, it's a good product.

[00:22:37] Glenn Fromer: right.

[00:22:38] Joe Casali: it's a lot.

[00:22:39] Glenn Fromer: It's a lot. And, and I'm not here. And, and just to, I don't wanna make this about QuickBooks, but just so you know, QuickBooks is, I mean the 800 pound gorilla, in, I don't wanna say in other words, we use it. Okay. And, and we use the desktop and they've been for multiple reasons, which is beyond the scope of my personal knowledge and all that.

[00:22:56] Glenn Fromer: But they're fa, they've been phasing out QuickBooks Desktop, and this is no secret. I mean, and, and they've been pushing towards online, and I think it was sometime during last year, they stopped selling, desktop for new users. I guess I know that I'm some exception, but unless you had an existing subscription to desktop, you, it's no longer available.

[00:23:17] Glenn Fromer: So if you go to Quick, see, I, I'm giving someone else's website. If you go to quickbooks.com. You'll only, you'll only see online. Online there. So, and it's, of course we see our ratio, our mix of clients, you know, new clients. Of course we see that shifting to towards QuickBooks online, obviously. And that's where we put a lot of our development in.

[00:23:38] Joe Casali: Excellent.

[00:23:38] Glenn Fromer: Yeah.

[00:23:40] Joe Casali: alright. Anything else? I, you know, I, I, listen

[00:23:44] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:44] Joe Casali: hear breadcrumbs along the way, and that idea, you know, you mentioned it and I didn't pick it up, but

[00:23:50] Glenn Fromer: Yeah.

[00:23:51] Joe Casali: idea that yeah, you, you're, you know, my cousin can come in and, and he said he could write a Python program for us,

[00:23:57] Glenn Fromer: Right,

[00:23:58] Joe Casali: it'll work once.

[00:23:59] Glenn Fromer: right,

[00:24:00] Joe Casali: the minute something changes, my phone just updated and stuff still doesn't work. I, I, you know,

[00:24:06] Glenn Fromer: right.

[00:24:06] Glenn Fromer: the compatibility stuff. So, Right.

[00:24:09] Joe Casali: a, it's a really interesting, I dunno if you'd say it's an argument, but, you know, when you enter the, the industry, if you in the payments industry and you're doing ACH,

[00:24:20] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:21] Joe Casali: you may not wanna recreate the wheel.

[00:24:23] Glenn Fromer: Right. And, and you're right, you, you're one why recreate the wheel? And you know me, I'm just a collection of cliches and, and old stale jokes. So, you know, it reminds me there, there's a joke about, there's a student in, in med school and he's going over how to remove appendix. So he goes, all right, there's only a couple steps you cut here, you remove the pa, you remove the, appendix, and then you stitch 'em up.

[00:24:48] Glenn Fromer: So it's three steps. And then a student raises their hand back. She says, wait a minute, I'm going to medical school. He goes, she goes, and you are just telling us in 15 seconds, that's all you need to know about appendix. He goes, that's all you need to know. If it goes great, if it goes right, the next, the next 20 classes are what happens if it doesn't go right.

[00:25:11] Glenn Fromer: And, and, and that's really it. That, that, and, you know, you hit on the head, you know, it, it works until it doesn't.

[00:25:17] Joe Casali: Yeah, no, that's,

[00:25:18] Glenn Fromer: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:19] Joe Casali: rule calls here

[00:25:21] Glenn Fromer: Yep.

[00:25:21] Joe Casali: is all the wrongs, what went wrong? No one's calling and saying, Hey,

[00:25:24] Glenn Fromer: Right?

[00:25:25] Joe Casali: entry's processed today.

[00:25:26] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:28] Joe Casali: They're saying this broke and that broke and this broke.

[00:25:31] Glenn Fromer: right, right.

[00:25:32] Joe Casali: I get it.

[00:25:33] Glenn Fromer: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:34] Joe Casali: excellent. Any, any, anything else you wanna talk about?

[00:25:37] Glenn Fromer: no. How did you get into payments? I never asked. How did you get into payments?

[00:25:41] Joe Casali: Oh my, this is a great story. This is a great story. the, the president of nie, used to work at Bank of New England,

[00:25:51] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:53] Joe Casali: I had a friend who worked at Bank of New England

[00:25:56] Glenn Fromer: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:56] Joe Casali: and they asked the friend, Hey, we need, we need someone like you to come and work at nie. And he said. Nah, I'm not really interested.

[00:26:05] Joe Casali: Joe, do you wanna go on an interview? No, I'll go on an interview just outta college. it was 1989. Things were like, where's a job? I need a job. Where's a job?

[00:26:14] Glenn Fromer: Yep. Mm-hmm.

[00:26:16] Joe Casali: And I walk in and I was computer operations technician. Two. There was no computer operation technician one.

[00:26:24] Glenn Fromer: Right.

[00:26:24] Joe Casali: I stumbled into it, and then eventually I fell in love with the payments and the rules and electronic payments. someone said something like, once you're in, you, you, you never get out as far

[00:26:35] Glenn Fromer: You, you hooked. You hooked. That's great. No, I, I, I, I agree. I agree. I, I really do feel like an evangelist for the ACH network. I, I really do. But, I appreciate it. And Joe, thank what, it's great to see you again. It was great seeing you at payments. It's, And once I consider your friend, what is it? Over a decade plus, since we're getting, I'm getting old.

[00:26:56] Glenn Fromer: But you, you, you still look the same?

[00:26:59] Joe Casali: Yeah. I think I actually met you at, I think this, it

[00:27:02] Glenn Fromer: Yeah.

[00:27:02] Joe Casali: before this, but Nacho was working on the, the Finn. They were defining what a Finnis was

[00:27:10] Glenn Fromer: Okay.

[00:27:11] Joe Casali: of that first group that said, let's go.

[00:27:13] Glenn Fromer: Okay. Could have been.

[00:27:15] Joe Casali: realized, I was like, these guys are way smarter than me.

[00:27:19] Glenn Fromer: No, no, no. I just wear glass. I wear thicker glasses. That's all. It looks smaller. That's all.

[00:27:25] Joe Casali: Excellent. Alright, well, nice to talking to you. I'll, I'll press the buttons now. Everyone remember to, to, oh. I have to make an avid,an announcement

[00:27:33] Glenn Fromer: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:34] Joe Casali: We, for the first time we got fan mail, with our provider, our, our software. And, they don't actually give you a way to respond.

[00:27:43] Glenn Fromer: So,

[00:27:44] Joe Casali: us fan mail, I will collect your questions. be sure to say the, the actual first fan mail I got was. Could I get the article? We're on

[00:27:55] Glenn Fromer: Hmm.

[00:27:55] Joe Casali: 46. I'm not quite sure which article they're referring to, so if that was you tell me which article you are looking for and we'll get it to you.

[00:28:03] Glenn Fromer: Okay.

[00:28:04] Joe Casali: we'll have an episode just on your questions. If you wanna provide questions, that would be great.

[00:28:08] Glenn Fromer: Okay,

[00:28:09] Joe Casali: for joining me, subscribe and all that business. thanks Glenn. it was great.

[00:28:14] Glenn Fromer: great. Thank you.

[00:28:16] ​