Your Money, Your Rules | Financial Freedom, Money Management, Abundance Mindset, Budgeting, Financial Planning

122 | Navigating Financial Pressure in Business: A Heart-Centered Take on Money Mindset (with Jess Hershey)

• Erin Gray | Spiritual Wealth Coach, Former Certified Financial Planner and CFO

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What if your relationship with money reflects your deepest beliefs about yourself? In this episode, Jess Hershey, founder of MOCA Business Services interviewed me in her community and we unpack how our current financial reality often reveals our beliefs about our worthiness and safety. 

We explore why slowing down during money stress isn’t just self-care—it’s a smart business move. I share how Human Design can guide more aligned financial decisions, why business naturally moves in cycles (not constant growth), and how shifting from taking energy to giving energy can transform sales.

Key Takeaways:

  • Your relationship with money often mirrors how you see yourself.
  • Business follows natural ebbs and flows
  • Financial stress activates survival mode, blocking creative ideas and clear decision making.
  • Self-regulation is an important business skill
  • Bringing more fun into money can heal strained financial patterns.

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From my soul to yours,

Erin

Erin Gray:

any business, you have ebbs and flows and I think what happens is we freak out when we are in that trough right, but we're not thinking like we pay attention to the highs, but then, when we're in the trough, we're like, oh my gosh, something's wrong versus like the law of rhythm is like nature right, like there's nature is not full blown all the time, and it's the same way with business. Welcome back to your money. Your roles podcast with me, erin Gray. I'm so glad you're here. Today.

Erin Gray:

I am sharing an interview I did with Jess Hershey, founder of Mocha business services, where we dove deep into the emotional side of entrepreneurship, especially around money. You know we talked about the financial mindset it really takes to run a business and how pressure and fear and even feeling panic can shape the way that we actually show up. We also explored why slowing down and really learning to self-regulate during all financial seasons is so important, plus how to build a relationship with money that's truly aligned with who you are and how you want to live your life. We even got into how human design can bring clarity and support as you navigate these big decisions in your life and also in your business. I know that there's so much here that will resonate with you. So let's dive in.

Jess Hershey:

I asked you to have this conversation with me today because I am feeling a shift in the financial landscape right now. It's really been over the last year and a half I think really early 2024, I started to see people feel more nervous about money. I think there's been a lot of things going on in the last year and a half um, there and and and and just kind of continues to be. Now we're in the middle of tax season right now as we're making this, so there's that um it just it feels like there's been a lot on people's minds um around money and I'm seeing more nervousness to um to spend, um. I'm seeing people nervous about their businesses and kind of what to do in order to stay financially stable and um, you and I have talked about before that there are.

Jess Hershey:

There are kind of cycles that we go through, like just in general, seasonally. There are um cycles where we it's a little bit slower in the summer and it's a little bit slower around the holidays. People are spending less in those times and then January and September, people are ready to spend all of the money, do all of the things, and so there are cycles we go through naturally and I feel like this is kind of a bigger cycle that we've entered in, where people are orienting a little bit differently to their money, thinking about it differently, and I'm picking up on on just a lot of nervousness. Um, so I thought it would be great to have a conversation with you about this, about the work that you do and and kind of tying that in so um, to to open it up. I'd love to hear you just kind of reflect on what I just said, that I'm seeing in this last little bit and what you're seeing and how that's feeling to you.

Erin Gray:

It's interesting that you said that, because when you, what came to mind too was like during COVID, and you know, like I think that there are. I think that if you put on the buyer's hat, I think as a buyer we have become more informed. No-transcript buyer's hat. You know, it's like we're very, we're more um, not the word decisive, but we're, we're more particular about who we invest in or what we invest in, because we have been, some of us have been, burned. So I think that there's that part of it. And then I think, from the part that you're talking about with the financial part, is like, I think there are seasons and I think also too of is that also just coming up? Because we already have that fear within us.

Erin Gray:

So the point I was trying to make with COVID is, for some people that went through COVID, it was terrifying. They didn't, you know, it was almost like a shutdown for them. For some people it didn't really impact them from a from a fear-based place, and so I'm curious if some of this is what you're describing is, do we already have that fear within us and it's coming out because it's the circumstances presenting itself, and so we're, we're getting shown where do our really deep seated fears already lie and it's presenting as money, but it's, you know, those deeper seated fears that we have within us.

Jess Hershey:

I think that makes a lot of sense in the idea of this, this, uh, the big stuff that is happening right now because, like I said, going back to the seasonal shifts, I feel like I see every year people panicking, and I experienced this myself. When things start to get a little bit slower in the summer and the winter, you're like, oh my gosh, do I need to do something different? Like, is it me? Is it what's happening, you know? And so I think it is really easy for those types of things to surface because they're already existing, because there's something else there that needs to be examined, which is, which is, the work that you do. So this is, this is great.

Erin Gray:

I think also too, like the law of rhythm, I think, in business. I don't know where it came from, where it got started, where we bought into, like businesses, just like this in, you know, in the construction business, we had ebbs and flows, right, like that's just part of it. And in any business you have ebbs and flows. And I think what happens is we freak out when we are in that trough, right, but we're, we're not thinking like we pay attention to the highs, but then when, when, when we're in the trough, we're like we pay attention to the highs, but then when, when, when we're in the trough, we're like, oh my gosh, something's wrong.

Erin Gray:

Versus like the law of rhythm is like nature, right, like there's.

Erin Gray:

Nature is not full blown all the time.

Erin Gray:

And it's the same way with business.

Erin Gray:

And I think, if we don't look at it from that perspective and we think like we should always be growing, growing, growing, it's like, but where do we actually either, you know, have some even out or even some even, actually, either you know, have some even out or even some, even if you're in a troughs, how is that actually helpful to you? How is that allowing you more space to figure out what you do want what is working, what isn't working, you know, if you're always on this upward trajectory and you're going 90 miles an hour, where are you giving your space, self, the space, your business, the space you know? Just really, I don't think a lot of us intentionally put in time in our calendar to just ponder and think, and so sometimes that happens for us, for us to look and see what is working, what isn't working, what do I want to continue to do and re um recommit to that faith and that certainty that we have in ourselves in what we're you know in our business, what we're creating in the world, how we're serving people.

Erin Gray:

Because if, every time, something outside of us, that is such a reactionary way of being right, if every, if something changes outside of us, and then we think, oh, my goodness, something's wrong. We haven't developed the skill set within us to be like I am certain, I am confident, I am resourceful, I will figure this out. You know, and sometimes it might be you know some things we do need to change. But if we're in this rushed, panic state, how are we able to look within and be like, hey, you know what? I need to increase my certainty in myself, I need to increase my confidence, I need to increase, you know, my belief that what I'm, I'm on the right path and you know, maybe it is, maybe I need to learn patience. I mean, there's just so many lessons that we might you know, that are coming up for us, that we need to learn, and I think that we've been sold that, like business is always up and it's I don't know, if that's true.

Jess Hershey:

At least I haven't seen it.

Erin Gray:

You know, that has been my experience.

Jess Hershey:

Yes, yeah, yes, I agree, I think it can be such a such a gift to have time, to be able to to reflect and to to spend time being a little bit slower sometimes, and I'll feel that way sometimes when I will get sick, if I am, if I am pushing too hard and I catch something and I'm like, okay, I need to just sit here and reflect for a little while.

Jess Hershey:

I think there's definitely seasons for that, because you reflect and you, you get to learn things that then, when you're feeling better or when things are picking up again, you get to kind of take and implement, which is great, um, but if, in those troughs that you're talking about, we are just in a complete panic and running around in circles, then it's not going to be a good use of time for anything Like when, when things do pick up again, um, we're going to be recovering because we were running around in circles, and so being able to be in a place where we can, um, have the wisdom to know that there are cycles, that we're going to go through, that there are ups and downs, and being able to plan for that and have peace with that and be present with that, feels like a really big thing.

Jess Hershey:

So I want to talk a little bit about some of the running around in circles, some of the things that happen when people are in this fear-based headspace, and then go into talking a little bit about what we can do about it instead. So some of the things that I see, and I definitely have experienced on my own when I get in a place of being under financial pressure, is this kind of like desperation that comes in, particularly with sales and marketing, and so we've all kind of seen like this aggressive marketing technique or you know, when you you can just tell you can sense that someone has this like I need to close the sale, and the feeling you get when you feel that from somebody else's yeah.

Erin Gray:

How do I run faster?

Jess Hershey:

Yeah, so. So, uh, tell me a little bit about your, your thoughts and experience with that.

Erin Gray:

Yeah, I think. I mean I'm sure that I was probably there when I first started my coaching practice because I was building it from. You know, looking back now, I was building it from a place of fear. Right, I was there. Probably was some part of me that was trying to build it to prove to my dad you know what I can create my own. You know business Like I.

Erin Gray:

You know there was that whole thing of like I don't want to buy your business, I don't want to do that, and so that whole, you know when in the beginning I probably was very much in a fear-based place, like, oh, I have to replace my income and I can't use any of our savings and I have to hurry and hurry and pressure, you know, and so we've all been there, right, and we know. Here's the thing is you know, when you are there, because how you feel in your body, and so this is what some of the work that I do is like really slowing down and getting connected, because when you are in that place, you know really there's all kinds of emotions, but really there's like love and there's fear, like if we just really boil it down to those two emotions. So when you are in fear, you're in a very like what you're saying, that like I call it like taking energy. Like you want them to buy something because you need something right, versus when you're in love and sufficiency and like, listen, I have a great product and I also understand. If you don't want to buy it, that's okay. Like there's someone else that will, that's very giving energy.

Erin Gray:

And I think you have to slow down to decipher where you in. And if we are constantly like because the body is like this is this is life or death, right now, you need to hurry up, right, that's what it feels like, at least in my body. So, the more that we can get practiced at feeling that I mean, I just felt it this morning. I was like, ooh, what is happening here? And I was like, hang on a second and I just allowed myself and I did a little bit of journaling and I'm like, oh, okay, this is just what the body likes to do.

Erin Gray:

When you've had so much ease and calm, it's almost like a window of tolerance where it just serves up that like, hey, fear, you haven't felt fear in a while. Like you need to feel fear right now. And so, recognizing that sometimes, like our bodies are used to feeling some of those lower vibration emotions, like fear, you know. And so when you're in it, really, I say like getting to the point of like what I call clean energy, of like I am here to serve you, I am here to offer my solution and if you want it, great I would. I think it's an amazing choice if you take it, and if you don't, that's okay too. And I think, when we come from that fear-based place, we're like we need you to say yes, because I need this Right and this comes with. It's like anything else. It's a skill set that we practice and we see like, ooh, am I in? What energy am I in when I'm talking to someone?

Jess Hershey:

Yeah, I'm. I'm like feeling myself take deep breaths as you're talking about slowing down. I'm like feeling myself take deep breaths as you're talking about slowing down. It's just. It's so nice to have somebody else say it to you, but I feel like doing one of the best things you can do for yourself.

Jess Hershey:

I think one of the best things I've done for myself is teaching myself to have, like the tools and the recognition to stop, like just, even if I can't fix it right away, I can't change my mindset right away, how do I stop and slow down? And I was just listening to one of your podcast episodes about the questions that you ask yourself to get clear on your money blocks, and I think questions are my favorite tool. If I can have a question or three questions, like you had in this instance where, um, when I feel myself feeling panic, that triggers me to ask a question and then I have to sit and think about it and it makes me slow down enough to become a little more aware of what's going on with me and then maybe look at changing it.

Erin Gray:

Yeah, I think you know, like you're saying, what are your go-to tools in your toolkit?

Erin Gray:

Because when you're in that state, you're not necessarily thinking, because you literally are in fight, flight, freeze or fawn right, like we we wouldn't term it as that way, but that's what the body is doing, right. And so when you have this, these practices in place, like for me, like you were saying, like, okay, I returned back to my breath, or I'll go put my feet outside, you know, or I'll just go for a walk and move some of that energy, like you said, ask some of those questions, like really getting clear. So like what are a couple of things that you can, each of us, which they're going to be different right, things that you can, each of us, which they're going to be different, right? But what are those couple of things that we can always go back to our toolkit when we're feeling this way, to to calm our nervous system and to tell us I mean my degree teacher, I love her. She she'll say things like you're okay, you're okay, you can do this Right.

Erin Gray:

And it's like that's what we have to tell ourselves. Right, like this morning I was like it's okay. I've felt this before I can feel any emotion. I know what this feels like it's okay, aaron, you're, you know, and it's it's like what you would do to a five-year-old, but literally like that's what we need in that moment, like it's okay, right In this moment I am okay and and I know it doesn't feel like that in the body. But it's one of those things that the more that it happens, the more that we see, oh, we can calm ourself, we can soothe ourselves. Then we can come out of that fight flight freeze and we can actually think from a creative place, because nothing happens. You cannot think creatively when you are in, you know, fight flight freeze, stressed panic, like no good ideas come from that.

Jess Hershey:

Yep, exactly, which brings me to the next thing I was going to say that I see a lot when people are in this state is quickly moving from one thing to the next. So what I'm doing must not be working. You don't necessarily know that, you don't necessarily even think about that, you're just jumping to. I'm going to try this, I'm going to try this, I'm going to try this. Suddenly, your audience has no idea what you do.

Jess Hershey:

You're there, yanked all over the place with everything, and then nothing that you're putting out there is actually solid, is actually aligned. It's maybe based on kind of those best practice tips that you hear that maybe aren't a way that you would want to be markets to. There's just a lot of um. It's really easy to get pulled into those things. I can't. I mean I don't know how many times in my business that I was like, oh, I should do this because it feels like a solution to you, and when you actually think about it and sit with it and feel it doesn't feel like an aligned solution. It's a decision made out of that, that panic, um, and that financial pressure, um. So, yes, tying back into everything you're talking about with that, uh, when you're running and and making those decisions quickly there. There's no actual like creativity or groundedness in those decisions. You have to stop first and make a decision from that place, even though it feels like you're going against everything your body is telling you to do in that moment.

Erin Gray:

And I mean I know people listening to this might be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but give me, like, the actual strategies and the practical tools. Okay, and I will say to that person cause I used to be this person and I still show up sometimes I'm like hang on, a second, Erin, is this is the practical strategy, this is the actual tool. Right, this is the quick three steps. This is the quick, you know fast money making thing. This is the stuff.

Erin Gray:

Right, it's not sexy, it's not.

Erin Gray:

You know it's not fun to be like you know I'm sweating or I have these rashes or you know I've been on the toilet or whatever it is, because you're actually feeling and processing emotions and you're going through things that you have suppressed and repressed for so long. But here's what I will say is that when you do this work, because you're going to take yourself wherever you go, so whatever you're making right now, you're going to just amplify that 10 exit, 100 exit, whatever, Right. And so do you actually want to take who you are as a person right now as you grow your business, or do you want to slow down and develop the skill set so that when this stuff does happen and it will when you're 10 X, a hundred X, you have the skill set and the tools to come back to be like okay, Right, Because how we build and what we, who we are, we're going to build, that we think like we're going to get to some magic number and it's all going to go away. It's like it's never going to go away, Right?

Erin Gray:

And the more that we can lean into that like I used to get. So I remember we were still living in Texas and it was maybe 2021. And I remember turning to my husband and be like I am so tired of this money thing, like I just want to be over it already. You know, almost like this frustration and it's like at that point I realized like okay, what if, aaron, you never, you never are? What if it's always like, what if that is what your soul came here to actually do? And every level you're going to feel it again and you're going to transcend it and like easing into that versus like I hurry up, I want this to go away, fix this really quick, so I don't have to feel this anymore.

Jess Hershey:

Yeah, that's great, um, so let's talk about a little bit more of like what, what this means we slow down, um. How can we put some a different type of relationship with money in place so that we can not be thrown off so much when these things come up? So, staying grounded, building a better relationship with money is something that you talk about a lot, and I love the idea, even alone, of building a relationship with money is just something that wasn't ever on my radar growing up. That was not something that I ever heard. Like money was this thing that I had to make. I had to achieve.

Jess Hershey:

It was this you know constant pressure, but having a relationship with money makes you kind of stop and be like huh, like what, what, what, how do I do that? Um, and so I want to talk a little bit about, um kind of some of the work you do with helping people build a relationship with money. Um, and how you know the importance of stopping and reflecting and getting to know yourself can help you show up for that relationship in a way that is going to be successful.

Erin Gray:

Yeah, I think every everything right Is is our relationship. It's literally our perception, our thoughts, our feelings about our spouse, me and you. Outside money, you know business, all of these things. So, and what I have found is that our relationship with money is very similar to what we think about ourselves. And so what I came to realize was, you know, four or five years ago, it was very much not enough. It was all rooted in inadequacy, unworthiness, undeservedness, and that's what I thought about my money and that's what I thought about myself helping people.

Erin Gray:

I think the first step is always awareness. Like, actually write down what do you think about money when I say you know your bank account is zero or your bank account is negative, what do you feel in your body? When I say you have $500,000 in your account, what do you feel in your body? And if you are like vacillating, like oh, it feels really good and oh, it doesn't Right, that that's an invitation for us to be like oh, how are we depending our feelings based on some external thing outside of us, right? And so I always say start with like what is your relationship Like? If I were to ask you, you know, if your kid were to come to you. Is there a certain level that there's like, ooh, that feels too much. What is your language about? Like, oh, that's expensive, or I can't afford that, or I can't invest in myself. Or just recognizing what is the language that you're currently using when you talk about money? And then, from there, how do you actually want to be in a relationship with money?

Erin Gray:

Like I use my husband as an example because I feel like we have a really grounded relationship. I don't. There's certainty there, there's trust there. Like I'm not sitting over there, being like is he going to cheat on me? Is he going to come home? Is he going to be there for me today? Like when you, when you say it like that from a spouse relationship, like that's a lot of times what we think about money, are you going to be there? You know like well, you know like we don't trust it. We don't trust it. Like, are you coming? Are you coming? Are you coming? It's kind of like the same thing that we were with cells, right, it's like that energy and so we're blocking it when we're from that place.

Erin Gray:

Versus like money loves to support us, right, money loves to be with us, it wants to be taken care of Like I think money is masculine and it's feminine, right. Like it loves to flow to us, it loves to give us what we want, which is very feminine and I think it's very masculine. Like it loves to provide for us. It loves to you, know, and so what? How do you want to be with money? And I don't think I mean this is not taught in schools. This is not taught, like none of my finance classes were like. So let's talk about your relationship with money. You know it's very what I call 3d. You know very much of like this is business, this is how accounting works, this is how investments work, right, but like our relationship with it is really what matters. If it stays around, if we grow it, if it, you know, expands, or if it comes to us quickly or it leaves quickly. Like that is all based on how we feel about money.

Jess Hershey:

Absolutely. Now tell me a little bit about how um human design plays into this as a tool, cause you have a four part video workshop series that um walks people through financial ease with human design, and I know you use that as a tool for self-identity so that you can be in that relationship. So tell me a little bit more about that.

Erin Gray:

Yeah, I think there's a couple of things.

Erin Gray:

I learned that you make decisions from your head, growing up, very pros and cons list and things of that sort. So, first and foremost is like helping people tap back into their intuition and using your decision-making style to that, to trust that, because we have been so conditioned to like what are the pros and cons and, you know, does that sound like good financial advice? And so we've been very conditioned to be what I call in our head, versus actually trusting. Here you go back to trust, right, trusting our bodies, trusting whatever you believe in God, spirit, source, divine, you know, universal intelligence, like there's something that's bigger than us, that we are co-creating with, and like are we tapping into that or are we thinking that we're doing this all on our own? So, first and foremost is understanding like how do you make decisions and also how do you run a business? Like there's five types and I think about like the manifestor type is very much.

Erin Gray:

I think the way that the business world has been um is very like you have an idea and you go initiate and you just do it Right, but the 91% of us are not manifestors, right, like we're very much so. Like we respond to things, we, and so when I was trying to build a business from that space, it felt like I was forcing every single thing because I was doing it from, not not a genuine place of how my design is. So it's, it's the decision-making, it's also trusting your intuition, and then I have, you know, kind of broken down how, like each center, how it applies to money, like I think a lot of us are trying to build our business from lack from fear, from feeling unworthy, from feeling, um, not lovable, and so we're trying here to go back to that, getting energy. We're trying to have our business fill our cup Right, but if our cup has a hole in it, like there's nothing that we can, there's no amount that we can do right To fill that up.

Erin Gray:

And so really seeing like how, has, how has your chart played into your relationship with money, and then how to start like really I call it like settling back into yourself and trusting yourself. And you know, like settling back into yourself and trusting yourself, and you know, learning to love yourself, changing your self-concept. You know, we, we came here fully, abundant love and light, and then somewhere along the way, right, someone told us or said something and then we thought otherwise. So really returning what I call like back home to ourselves and really building a business from a place of wholeness, um, of complete, like completeness. You know, it's like an addition to versus, like I hope if I get this then I'm going to feel successful. If I get to this number, then I'm going to feel X, y, z, versus like generating that within us and so kind of showing in, in using your design to, to show you like how to navigate that.

Jess Hershey:

That's so good. Yeah, going back to your relationship parallel with you and your husband or any, you know our relationship with our spouse, significant other, friend, even, um, I. Something I've experienced in my life is that if you're, if you're not doing your work to you know, not have a hole in your cup to make sure you're taken care of and you understand and know and love yourself. It's really hard to love another person, um, completely, and you can feel wanting to have that person get it from that person instead of getting it from yourself. And I feel like a lot of us can relate to that type of experience and this. Putting this back on money If we don't take the time to heal the way that we feel about money, to write the story that we want to have, then to be able to have a relationship with it, isn't going to be possible. So not only has have we never heard that term and it's never occurred to us. It's not possible unless you do that work first and really understand yourself. Does that feel accurate to you?

Erin Gray:

Yeah, totally. I mean it's like we're trying to change the external to get us to feel on the internal. But that's not the way. Like we live in a cause and effect world, right. Like we have to feel this way first and then we see it in the external. And I think so many of us have been taught, I mean like the whole. I mean we don't have cable. So when we go like to different hotels like my kid loves to watch cable because we have no cable and there's no like ads or whatever, but you know, there's always some type of commercial of like, oh, this is what you need, this is what you need.

Erin Gray:

Like we're taught in the world right. Like that there's something wrong with you and you need this thing to feel this way, versus no, you feel this first and then it and it shows up on the outside. And with money I think so often I mean it'll make me cry, cause I'm just like how many of us and this was for me for sure of like I was so hard on money, like I can't imagine if that was a person, if that was my daughter, of what I used to say to money like you're not good enough, it's never enough. You know what I used to say to money like you're not good enough, it's never enough, you know, and just that feeling of like yeah, inadequacy and not enoughness. Well, why would money want to hang out with us? You?

Erin Gray:

know why would money want to like. It's almost like verbal abuse, like why do I want to go and be in a relationship with someone's? Like you're not enough. Here you are again not here. You know it. Just it doesn't feel good.

Erin Gray:

And and money, like money, wants to have fun. We money wants to support us, Money wants us to trust it. You know and like and I do think that I know I sound, I'm like I'm talking out both sides of my ass Like I think that we will constantly up-level right, so the healing's never done and also we can change a belief very quickly too. You know, yeah, so like allowing for both of those parts, um, but we could just decide. You know, like, I want to have fun with money.

Erin Gray:

What would that look like in order for me to have fun with money? And it doesn't mean you need, you need to go use all your savings, but maybe that's like hey, money, you want to go on a date, you want to go. You know, like what do you like to do something small that maybe isn't so outside your window of tolerance. Like you know what, like yesterday I was like you know what? I'm going to go buy some nail polish. I'm going to go get a little latte. You know, like I'm just going to go have some fun with money, you know. So it's just like how often do we practice having fun with money versus it's just a serious thing that we have to have and it's, you know, that attachment that we have to it and it feels like a lot of pressure.

Jess Hershey:

You know Absolutely, yeah, yeah. I think that's all really great the idea of continuing to work towards this mindset, that that you can both make a quick decision that can help you right away From listening to this video. You can make a decision that I'm going to go on a date with money and have some fun, and that can make a big impact. But it is something we're going to learn again and again and we're going to go through these cycles. So one of the things the last thing I wanted to kind of talk about is another great tool, I think, for me in keeping that awareness and bringing myself back to this again and again so that I can learn it a little bit more and get a little bit better and practice these tools is other people.

Jess Hershey:

Um, I think having other people around, it's really easy as an entrepreneur to kind of silo yourself in and, um, be doing something for a long time and get really far down the road without anybody saying, hey, have you thought about it this way?

Jess Hershey:

Or, you know, like getting you out of your perspective. And I am so fortunate to have great humans in my life that ask me how I'm doing that, um, ask me what's going on with my business and my life and I get to reflect and I find myself reflecting in answering that in ways that I I haven't on my own. You know that people bring it out of you and then, additionally, when you have a community of entrepreneurs, especially, and you're feeling tight on money, instead of panicking and saying what I'm doing must not be working, you can say are you guys feeling this? And they can go oh yeah, things are slow right now. It's not just you and you get to skip that whole panic phase. So this is, I think, a lot of the value for me of building this MOCA community and you have your own community as well that you focus on money mindset tips. Is that right?

Erin Gray:

Yeah, I recently started. You know I'm not like a huge social media person, but I'm like where can I have a community for women to like, come to share? Like a safe space, you know, a safe space to share and talk about what they're experiencing with money and you know, having, you know me asking, inviting questions for them to ponder, but a place where we can say you know what? Because every woman I have ever talked to and I mean men, men show it differently, but women it's like they think that they're the only ones that go through this, right, and so when I say you know what, your response is, just like you know someone else I just talked to, you can literally see their shoulders relax. Like we think that we're doing like what you're saying. We're doing this by ourselves, because we think that there's something wrong with us, right, but this isn't something. I think maybe it's changing somewhat in the spiritual world but like this is something that we weren't taught growing up, right, and you don't get in business school. And so if you don't get it there, well, where are you supposed to get it and connect with? Get it there, well, where are you supposed to get it and connect with? And I think for a lot of like masterminds you have such a sometimes it can feel like an ego place where it doesn't necessarily feel safe to be like yeah, I'm having a really hard time right now, you know like where you just get to let the guard down and you get to share some of that stuff.

Erin Gray:

I think it depends on on the mastermind that you're in. But I think that it's really important to have community Like as humans, right? We want connection, we want to connect and relate to other humans and if you're a one man, I mean I recognize it in myself. When I'm doing too much work by myself, I'm like I need to be with the humans, you know.

Erin Gray:

And so recognizing that within yourself and for some of us it's going to be different levels, right, I mean, there are some people that want to be with them all the time, there's some that come in and out, whatever, but just the community is such an important piece because I think when you, first of all, you have someone that can see you in a different light than how you see yourself, right, Like when you hear the stories in your brain and you're, you know, going down that rabbit hole like you're talking about, I can be like Jess, what are you talking about? You're amazing.

Erin Gray:

You know what I mean Like, but, but really, and not not just fill you up with, but like literally, like you see someone in a different view than how they see themselves. They, you see them in their higher self, and I think that that really matters and I think it really helps. Like you said, it gets you out so much quicker. Um, because you have someone to and you also have people to celebrate with you. Like it's fun to celebrate, like you know, energetically, like the more people that are celebrating someone's success, like that is a reflection that that's there for you too, and so having that, I think, is an amazing thing.

Jess Hershey:

Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's just a need for being a human in general, but I especially love the idea of a community centered around. The idea of a community centered around come talk about money, because even in the really comfortable groups and connections that we find ourselves in, money feels like this topic that we just we don't talk about. We might talk about some of the pain points of I think I need to work on my sales call. What someone's really saying there is I'm struggling with money, but it's really hard to say I am struggling with money. Um, so having a safe place to do that feels very powerful. Yeah, that's great. Thank you for the wonderful conversation on all of these great resources and tips and it was a pleasure to chat with you today.

Erin Gray:

Thanks for having me, jess, always a pleasure.