Ready Set Reiki
Welcome to ReadySetReiki®
A podcast about Reiki and Energy work. From the curious beginning to the seasoned Master Teacher. Welcoming all those who work with energy.
Join Reiki Master Tracy Searight as she guides you on a journey through this landscape of energy work. Each guest offers an in-depth unique perspective sharing their journey, which had 'a profound effect on their healing and development as a person. Come along on this journey and explore all the possibilities of working with energy.
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Tracy Searight is an Educator, Yoga Teacher, Reiki Master, Grandmaster, Sound Practitioner, Author, and Podcaster.
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Ready Set Reiki
Episode #163 Justin B.Stein Reiki Through Time: A Scholar's Journey into Japanese Healing Traditions
The enigmatic history of Reiki unfolds through the meticulous research of scholar and practitioner Dr. Justin B. Stein in this illuminating conversation. As a Japanese religion specialist and author of "Alternate Currents: Reiki Circulation in the 20th Century North Pacific," Dr. Stein brings unprecedented clarity to the origins of this healing practice that has captivated millions worldwide.
Far from being purely Japanese, Reiki emerged during a period of profound cultural exchange. Dr. Stein reveals how Mikao Usui created a spiritual technology that ingeniously bridged Eastern and Western healing philosophies at a pivotal historical moment. Recently discovered documents show that Usui actually studied psychology in America and worked at the San Francisco Custom House around 1898—facts that dramatically reshape our understanding of Reiki's development as a transnational practice.
The conversation explores fascinating perspectives on Hawayo Takata's crucial role in transforming Reiki from a Japanese healing art into a global phenomenon. Dr. Stein provides nuanced insights into her famous $10,000 master training fee (equivalent to nearly $100,000 today), explaining how it reflected Japanese values of reciprocity while incorporating flexibility for sincere students of limited means. These cultural adaptations helped make Reiki both accessible to Westerners and true to its Japanese essence.
For practitioners and curious newcomers alike, Dr. Stein recommends essential reading materials that deepen understanding, including recently translated Japanese texts from the 1930s that offer rare glimpses into early Reiki practices. His scholarly yet approachable perspective helps distinguish between historically accurate information and the well-meaning but sometimes misleading narratives that have developed through decades of oral transmission.
As Reiki continues its journey into mainstream awareness, Dr. Stein emphasizes the importance of balancing respect for tradition with openness to authentic evolution. Whether you're a seasoned Reiki master or simply curious about energy healing, this conversation offers profound insights into how a Japanese spiritual practice became a global healing movement that continues to transform lives a century after its creation.
Justin B. Stein is a scholar of Japanese religion and spirituality in transnational perspective. He is currently chair of the Asian Studies Program at Kwantlen Polytechnic University in British Columbia, Canada. He is the author of Alternate Currents: Reiki's Circulation in the Twentieth-Century North Pacific (University of Hawaii Press, 2023), which uses the life and work of Hawayo Takata as a frame through which to look at how Reiki developed and evolved in Japan, Hawaii, and North America between the 1920s and 1980s. He has also written several peer-reviewed articles and book chapters on Reiki, Buddhism, and Aikido, and is the co-editor of The Routledge Handbook of Religion, Medicine, and Health (Routledge, 2022). He has been a Reiki practitioner since 2001 and has studied in Takata lineages as well as Japanese lineages. In addition to Reiki, he loves the outdoors, music, cycling, and skiing.
Ready Set Reiki is a journey
From the curious beginner to the Season Master Teacher
All Energy workers of all systems and all levels.
This is Ready Set Reiki, a podcast about Reiki and all energy work, from the curious beginner to the seasoned master teacher, welcoming all systems, all lineages and all levels. Reiki is a journey and not a destination, and on this Ready Set Reiki journey, I refer to myself as a guide rather than a host, as I, too, am traveling, helping, supporting others and learning on this Reiki journey as well. And with that said, I am your guide, tracy C Wright. And this is Ready Set Reiki. Hello, beautiful friends, welcome Ready Set Reiki. I'm Tracy C Wright. Well, what an amazing episode today is going to be. Not only do we have an amazing guest, I have one of my favorite people that has her own amazing podcast as well, so let me introduce my wonderful, beautiful, amazing and talented friend, rose Rose. You already sent Reiki listeners all about you.
Speaker 1:Oh, tracy, you're too kind. You know I adore you and I'm your biggest fan, so thank you for having me as your co-guide. I love being on here with you and our Reiki universe. So my name is Rose Whippage and I'm the host of Chat Off the Mat. I'm a Reiki master, I'm a yoga teacher, qigong teacher as well, and I'm author of an upcoming book. I don't want to talk too much about it, but I'm going to be on Tracy's podcast and we'll talk all about that at another time, so I'm just happy to be here. Thank you, tracy.
Speaker 2:I cannot wait for October to roll around to get that book, so looking forward to it. So the reason why we're here today on this journey and this is what the great thing about having a podcast is I have people often ask you know, why are you doing this if you're not making thousands and millions of dollars? And it's just to meet wonderful and amazing people like Rose and our next guest. Well, our next guest amazing PhD. He is a scholar author. He is a scholar of Japanese religion and spiritual in transnational perspective Wow. He is currently chair of the Asian Studies Program in Kowaland, sao Paulo Technical University Wow, that's a tongue twister.
Speaker 2:In British Columbia, canada, he is the author of the Alternate Currents Reiki Circulation in the 20th Century North Pacific University of Hawaii, press 2023, which uses the life and work of Madame Takada as a frame through which to look at how Reiki developed and involved in Japan, hawaii and North America, and this is a time frame between 1920s and 1980s. He's also written several peer-reviewed articles, book chapters on Reiki, buddhism and co-editor in this handbook of Religion, medicine and Health. Now he has been a Reiki practitioner since 2001. He has studied Madame Takada's lineage. Practitioner since 2001. He has studied Madame Takada's lineage, as well as other Japanese lineages. In addition, he loves outdoor music, cycling and skiing. I mean, what an amazing person here. So let's give a warm Ready Set Reiki. Welcome to Justin B Stein. Justin, welcome to Ready Set Reiki.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much, Tracy. What a nice intro.
Speaker 2:Wonderful, I mean. So much information, so much knowledge. I cannot wait to start this journey, so let's begin. I gave our listeners a little bit of a taste about you. Might have pronounced a word wrong here or there, so let's hear it from you. You're a beautiful voice here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:Well, I think you hit most of the main points. I maybe could say I was born and raised in New York, but now I am a permanent resident of Canada where I've been based for about 15 years now, most recently two years in Kyoto on a postdoctoral fellowship at Bukyo University. And, yeah, I first found Reiki. Actually, my first initiations were in India when I was in my early 20s, and so I've been a practitioner now for almost 25 years and it's a really wonderful part of my life. And, yeah, the way that I kind of dove into being an academic researcher of Reiki history, you know, definitely changed my whole life, introduced me to wonderful people like you two and as, yeah, it's having both the kind of the practice side of things and also the scholarship side of things, it definitely affects me every single day.
Speaker 2:So beautiful. Now, in my journey of life, what sparked me to be an elementary school teacher is I didn't have a very nice kindergarten teacher. She was actually quite mean and I remember, at five years old, thinking I'm going to grow up and be a teacher so that kids will love being in my classroom and love coming to school. But what inspired you to study Japanese, regional and spirituality in a transnational perspective?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, that was a long path, I gotta say. I think when I was a teenager, I got interested in Buddhism and meditation. I had been introduced to meditation and yoga by my mom, who is a longtime TM practitioner, and I was always kind of interested in I don't know what you might call the paranormal world. You know things beyond, you know what we normally see with our two eyes and kind of spiritual ways of being. And then I, when I was an undergraduate, I wanted to do a Buddhist studies program in India and my dad actually kind of pushed me towards Japan as like a safer place to be. You know, a young man interested in spiritual paths.
Speaker 3:And yeah, when I was in Japan, I had been initiated into a different type of energy healing before my trip, and so I was doing these chakra meditations and these kind of fingertip, you know, applications of prana for spiritual healing, and I was having some very profound experiences.
Speaker 3:And then, while I was in Japan, I learned, oh, there's actually a lot of Japanese modalities that also engage in similar types of practice, and so I got interested in that and I wrote a grant to go back to Asia and learn more about different forms of energy healing and I ended up, yeah, becoming a school teacher as well for a few years and then went back to grad school and was like, okay, like let's look at energy healing. And the history of Reiki turned out to be something that no one had really written much about from a scholarly perspective. And the more I studied about the history of Reiki, it was clear that you know, even though we talk about it as like a Japanese healing art, it's not like purely Japanese right. It was developed in the modern period when Japan was very much enmeshed in what I call a transnational currents, and so Reiki itself, you know, kind kind of, I think, needs to be studied from this kind of transnational Japanese perspective. So I hope that was my best nutshell response to a big question very good.
Speaker 2:I had seen some of your articles over the years and I was listening to a lecture by William Rand last year and that's when your name came up. He spoke about it and so my ears perked up. I'm like, hmm, and we'll talk a little bit later about something that you announced, but we go where it first began. When did Reiki come into your life? Did Reiki find you or did you find Reiki?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I knew, I mean, I guess, as I started doing research on different types of energy healing, certainly Reiki. This was in around 2000,. Maybe the name Reiki was prominent at that time, as it continues to be today, and so I knew it was like a well-known, widespread form of hands-on energy healing. And then, yeah, there had been some kind of funny synchronicities, I guess, as I was starting my research when I was in London, the UK, with this Reiki lady there and I knew it was something that I needed to and I was doing like participant observation research, so I was getting initiated in and studying various forms of healing, including Kundalini stuff, qigong stuff and um Reiki and other um, japanese, uh modalities, and so, yeah, I knew it was something that I wanted to study. So I guess, yeah, did it find me or did I find it? I think maybe it's two sides of the same coin on some level. Right, it definitely appeared in my life as a young man and has continued to be an important part of my life since then.
Speaker 2:Beautiful and, as that important part of your life. What has surprised you about Reiki in your research and really in your own personal life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think in my research, I think the thing that was most surprising to me was the degree to which Usui Sensei I think was influenced by as I mentioned before, I think was influenced by, as I mentioned before, kind of these transnational influences, in addition to being, I think, well steeped in Japanese spiritual and religious healing traditions that you know as people can read about in my book or I've published some other things on this topic as well that there were hands-on healing practices in the US at that time. There was a lot of practice around the power of the mind and this is like late 19th, early 20th century and that those practices and those teachings were translated into Japanese in the early 20th century and were very influential. So, while Japanese people were teaching century and were very influential, so while Japanese people were teaching, you know practices like Reiki, where there's, you know, esoteric initiations that I think have a Buddhist influence, and ideas about Qi, you know, purveying the universe like Qi, which also have a very strong and ancient, you know, chinese influence, that there were also ideas about the mind and the power of the mind, or ideas about, you know, the scientific, you know term like energy starting to get picked up at that time. And so there's ways where Reiki, I think, really bridges Asian and North American, you know, kind of so-called like Eastern and Western mentalities, as well as kind of ancient spiritual technologies and ideas from modern science and medicine and ways that Reiki has changed kind of over the years, integrating other paradigms as well. I think getting a perspective on all of that through my research was maybe I don't know if it was surprising, but definitely profound for me.
Speaker 3:And I think, in terms of the practice end, I think recognizing that this is an evolving practice right, that this is something where it's, I think it's important to connect with the roots and I think it's important to know where it came from. And of course I'm a historian so I'm going to say that. But I think also having trust in one's own connection with the energy or the power and one's intuition, and feeling that kind of openness to being guided and that kind of presence in the practice, I think is also like it's the other side of that coin, maybe. And so that there's, I think, a lot of people out there who are saying, oh, you know, the traditional way is the only way or the best way, whereas there's a lot of other people who are adding new things to the practice from their own experience, and I think that to be able to draw that horizon where we honor maybe both of those things, you know, as long as they're done with integrity, I think, is something that I think practice continues to teach me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right. I have found in my experience, when I have gone to trainings alongside fellow students and even some of my students, the history is what catches them up. They are excited, they're ready, they're ready for the energy, they get that attunement or placement, they're ready to go out into the world. And then, when it's time for them to teach, they often have difficulty remembering all of these things. And you know, many people are able to go in person, online Now they're able to watch videos and there's such a variety out there in the world and oftentimes the history gets overlooked. When I began my first Reiki training, the history was a little blotchy, a little like not complete, and then I found, uh, the Healing Touch by William Lee Rand and here it was this evidence-based, and I was like whoa, here it is, and all the pieces were coming together In your experience. Why is history so important? Why is the history of Reiki so important for us to know, to pass on to our students?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there's a few reasons, and so one of them is, I think, that the idea that this is an initiation lineage, where we are practicing a particular form of practice, as I said, while it continues to evolve and change, there's also this idea that aspects of the practice, important aspects of the practice, have been passed down, you know, from master to student, going back to the founder, usui Sensei, and that we are part of that lineage makes it so that I think understanding some of that history is part of what the practice is right and telling stories about the lineage, learning from the experiences of those who've come before us.
Speaker 2:I think that's an important aspect of Reiki practice. Yeah, I could say more, but maybe let's just leave it. Well, especially from the lineage you come from, from Takata, you know I had connected a few years ago with the Reiki Alliance and there was that history. You need to know that history. It was so important because there's many people out there that have the wrong information. I was observing something on a Facebook page and a gentleman posted this is my, my sensei's manual and he had where azuri sensei was beginning with the reiki energy and we know when he was born, we know when he died. And I said, hey, you might want to like tell your teacher that, like he has this date on here, this would have made made a Zui five years old. And he said, nope, my teacher is correct. And it's just so interesting the misinformation that's out there.
Speaker 2:And this person was arguing with me. It's like there's a memorial stone, there's things out there. Nope, this is the date and I'm going to go buy it. So apparently in his world, in his lineage, a Zui sensei was doing this at five world.
Speaker 3:In his lineage, a zui sensei, was doing this at five.
Speaker 3:Well, and that's, I think, also the other side of this kind of openness to being guided and intuition is there are a lot of people who have their own kind of channeled information that, like, on the one hand, like I want to um honor their experience, and that they, you know, feel like they have these particular insights and connections, um, but then when you try to make it into and this contradicts, like all of the historical evidence that we have, like that's where, you know, it kind of becomes tricky, um, because there's all these different kind of stories and narratives about where Reiki comes from.
Speaker 3:And, yeah, I think, in this era where we actually have, as you mentioned, kind of more access to the, you know, historical evidence of the life of Usui in Japan, that there are texts that are being translated and made available more widely, it's a really different scene than it was 30 years ago, where there was a lot of circumspect and conflicting stories and we didn't really know how can you figure out which one is correct Like these days, the evidence is really a lot more accessible is correct. Like now, these days, the evidence is really a lot more accessible. So you know. At the same time, you know people might have their own beliefs and insights and you know there's not a lot we can do for some folks to convince them otherwise. And it is, you know, it has been this game of telephone and where little bits get added along the way and then it's like, yeah, where did that come from?
Speaker 2:Oh, right Right.
Speaker 3:But when I was doing some of my research you know Phyllis Furumoto when I first the first time I connected with Phyllis Furumoto, takata's granddaughter and lineage bearer for the Usui Shiki Dioho, she told me she's like, listen, the kinds of historical research questions you have are not interesting to me at all, like I don't care about any of that stuff. But I know there are a lot of other people in the Reiki world who really care about that very deeply and so I want to support you however I can in order for you to help answer some of the questions that people have, because I know that's an important thing for our community. And so you know, personally I have the story my grandmother gave me and I try to keep to that as strongly as I can and hold that space that she held and that's my job. But I see that your job, you know, speaking to me, is to do this more historical work. And how can I support you in that? And I really respected that and felt very honored by that. Yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2:So, as you've been out in the Reiki world here since 2001, talking to individuals, and you've been honored to connect with so many wonderful people in the lineage, what has been a common misconception about Reiki?
Speaker 3:I mean, I think it's part of it is what I was saying before.
Speaker 3:I mean there's many, many, many misconceptions, but for me, I mean I think it's this idea that Reiki is this like ancient practice that Usui like rediscovered and it really like, in the form that we practice it today, has been practiced for thousands of years and goes back to wherever ancient you know, whatever you want to call it tibet or china, or india or egypt, or outer space, space, um, that I that I think, sure, like the idea of connecting with life force, energy and using hands, using breath, um, in order to awaken people's you know, natural healing abilities through spiritual practice, inspiration, connecting to the divine, like that has been practiced around the world, you know, since probably before recorded history.
Speaker 3:But the actual like practice taught by Usui Sensei, with these particular types of initiations, these particular symbols, you know, that seems to really be about a hundred years old, right, and it was, I feel, like a spiritual technology that he developed in order to connect to that timeless, universal source of healing, but that, like this particular practice, I feel like, yeah, is not more than 100-something years old. So that's one misconception that I feel like I could.
Speaker 1:I like the term that you use spiritual technology. I like the term that you use spiritual technology, and it was like he created a framework around this that we've been able to carry forward and also evolve, right, so, but yeah, so, yeah, I just wanted to say that.
Speaker 2:So if you could tell anybody, if they're coming to you what? Is this Reiki? What does it mean? What is one?
Speaker 3:thing you wish every person knew about Reiki. I mean, I think it's something I kind of just alluded to where it's that you know the Reiki practitioner, the energy itself is not you know they're part of your healing journey in a sense, but that it's really you're also part of that journey, and that Reiki kind of puts people in a state where they can naturally heal and that it's not like a savior who is going to. You know what. I mean, that like you're part of this, that's, I think, something that I think is really important and that and I think also.
Speaker 3:I think as a practitioner, I'm sure you know, maybe you all have felt this as well, and I think it's in some of the stories. Takata said if the person who's receiving isn't like invested in it, that they're not going to really receive, and so that there's this sensation sometimes where I feel like even like my hands are being like pushed away from the person or the Reiki is just kind of bouncing off of a person or something like that, and um, it's kind of like okay, listen, if you're not ready for this. You know and I think there's been a lot of different ways that people have dealt with that issue, um, different ages, but um, yeah, that you can't make anybody heal if they aren't like part of that process as well yeah, yeah, and usually when you ask people about that, you know like why isn't it working, what?
Speaker 2:why is it not happening? It usually comes back to they're not practicing, they're not doing the. You know the Reiki principles, etc. Rose, did you have something?
Speaker 1:you want. I was just going to say, um, that sometimes even new students are very skeptical and they need some type of validation from whoever they're. You know, practicing on, I should say, and I think every student I've ever taught always said I don't know if it's working, I don't know if it's, you know doing this and that, and then someone says, oh, I really feel your hands warm. You know, there's like this, I don't know this, like learning curve or this feeling you need to create a relationship with Reiki. That's how I always tell them that you need to create your practice and your relationship with Reiki and it's ongoing and it's not like you know you're going to flip a switch and, hey, everything's in the right order. So, yeah, so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, and it kind of comes in waves too. I feel like there's a particular you know session, there's a particular connection you make and you're sweating bullets. You know your hands are like feeling like electric and like, oh my God, this is so intense. And then other times you put your hands up. It feels nice. You know how does it feel? It feels nice.
Speaker 1:You know it's like relaxing you know, whatever it is like, it's just it's mysterious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like relaxing, you know. Whatever it is Like, it's just it's mysterious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's mysterious. It's different each time. Exactly, yeah, very good.
Speaker 3:So, what are some qualities you look for in a Reiki master teacher? Yeah, if I was like going to be getting trained, if I was like looking for a teacher.
Speaker 2:As you were looking and you were exploring.
Speaker 3:You know when you found I didn't know anything when I was looking, so I mean I think I was part of it is. I was wondering how expensive the courses were and you know I didn't really know a whole lot about. You know Reiki at that time.
Speaker 3:But, I think I mean, like any kind of spiritual practice, you want to maybe get to know the teacher a little bit before you sign up for the course, maybe get a treatment from them, make sure you have a nice connection with them, make sure they seem like a person with integrity. There's a lot of different flavors of Reiki out there and so certain people are going to connect with certain. You know styles, I think, more than others. I don't know that there's a universal kind of tip for students out there, but I think just to make sure that the person you're learning from, I think, seems to have heart and seems to be present and have everyone's best intentions in mind, just, I guess, some rules of thumb maybe.
Speaker 2:Beautiful, beautiful. So on TikTok I have a little character that's called the Reiki police and that I bring up violations right and different things just as a very playful way. But Reiki seems to be really mainstream now thanks to TikTok, social media. So as it's become more mainstream, are there any red flags that someone who doesn't know a thing about radio should look for?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, again, there's a lot of different like styles out there and so there's, there's maybe certain things that make me feel a little uncomfortable, but they might work for someone else. So I'm a little trepidatious to say you know, you know, avoid anybody who's doing X, y or Z. But I think you know people, let's just say maybe like people who seem very like ego driven, where, like it's, they have these incredible powers and no one else has powers like I do. Like that's, I think, a big red flag. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Fair enough, very good. So what advice would you give someone who's just entering the field of Reiki, the spiritual modality?
Speaker 3:Be open, but also, maybe like keep your eyes open too, right. Like, don't like be connected with heaven, but also be connected with earth, right, that there's a kind of interpretation of the two characters, of the key, where the day is like comes from heaven and the key is what comes from earth, and that we kind of are in the middle combining them and, um, yeah, I think that, uh, what did I say? Like, uh, don't, don't be so open-minded, your brains fall out, or something like that. Right, but also like practice, practice, practice, practice. Right, that, as Rose was saying, most people, I think, when you first start practicing that aren't necessarily very sensitive to the energy.
Speaker 3:You're not sure if it's working and, on the contrary, sometimes people are practicing and it's like too intense and you're like, oh my God, this is great. So, like, again, there's different lineages out there, but for people who have, like the foundation treatment, you know, do your head, but also make sure you're doing your belly and your abdomen, right that like getting those different hand positions, um, you know, treating yourself every day, treating other people when you can, when they're open to it, the more you practice, I think people work through a lot of the initial issues that they have. Yeah, Beautiful.
Speaker 2:So what books do you recommend? What is in Justin B Stein's library?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, there's a few things that have been important books for me throughout. You know the ages, I guess In terms of you know more kind of historical research books which is like what you know for me is big. You know, I think Frank Garjava Petter's this is Reiki is like a really important book. 2012 is the English translation at least, and there's a lot of information there about Usui Sensei, the Usui Reiki, traditional Japanese Reiki techniques, some of which came out in earlier books, like the spirit of Reiki, which came out in 2001, and some of that, yeah, books like the Spirit of Reiki, which came out in 2001,.
Speaker 3:Had some of that. So sorry, my connection or am I back on? Okay, my connection was a little shaky for a sec, but yeah, I think that that book by Arjava was really important for my development and I think I and I still go back to it. Um, he has some translated um sources that really don't appear anywhere else and um. So, yeah, I think that's that's been an important book for me. Um. For people interested in Takata and her lineage, um and like the 22 masters, um.
Speaker 3:Robert Fuston's book um Reiki transmissions of light um is another important book. I would say there have been some folks from the Takata lineages who have taken issue with some of the things Robert said. In there there's a little bit of controversial takes, but at the same time, I think there really is also a lot of great resources in there. So, in terms of from the 2010s, those are probably two books. Nicholas Pearson's book also, foundations of Usui Reiki Ryoho. I think he does a good job synthesizing a lot of the information that was out before him, taking stuff from our Java and Franz and, I think, some stuff from my work as well and giving a pretty good foundation for people interested in traditional Japanese Reiki and it's a little more practice oriented, I think, than some of those other books. And if I could just mention two more I know you're asking me about books I've got a whole library. Of course, my book from 2023, I definitely recommend to folks, particularly people interested in the historical development of Reiki, how it changed over time. It's called Alternate Currents. It's, you know, a little more academic-y, but it really does try to tell the story of Hawaii, takata. And so some people have told me you know, hey, I don't normally like academic books, but this had a very narrative approach and I learned so much about Takata and her life and her time and I learned so much about Takata and her life and her time and she's so much more of like a human being to me now. So that's always nice to hear.
Speaker 3:And then also, very recently, olaf Bum, b-o-h-m. He's actually about to republish his book through Amazon because some of the distribution international distribution wasn't as good outside of Europe. But his book is called Reiki A Journey to Oneness with the Universe and also has a lot of amazing historical resources in there, things that never appeared anywhere else before. Olaf's been a big help, like in my book Olaf, let me see all of these historical sources that he had collected. So I've been very personally benefited from his work. I actually have some translations in his book as well, and so, yeah, all of those books.
Speaker 3:Oh, and if I can mention one more, the book that just came out is the Tomita Kaiji. It's called Reiki and the Benevolent Art of Healing, and so that's a book that was originally published in Japanese in 1933. And we just recently released the translation of it. And again, like, not everybody is going to connect with every aspect of Tomita's practice. It involves long periods of meditation, you know, kneeling for long periods of time, which, as someone who's, you know, done Japanese meditation, I'll tell you your legs are going to fall asleep. And why am I doing this? But, at the same time, I think there's also a lot of amazing resources in there about how early Reiki was practiced. So, yeah, I think there's also a lot of amazing resources in there about how early Reiki was practiced. So, yeah, I think that was six books.
Speaker 2:So maybe that's more than you're looking for. Thank you for sharing that. Is there any other of your books that you would like to share as well?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's really the alternate currents is the one like real book length thing that I have out right now. But I'm working on a new one. It's going to be like an edited volume on Reiki and I'm actually actively working on that right now and hopefully that'll be out from also from UH Press, university of Hawaii Press, in the next year or two. But yeah, the Tomita book just came out. I worked on that. That was, yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 2:And you were recently on our friends Colleen and Robyn's podcast Reiki Lifestyles. That goes into a little bit more of a discussion with your book, correct?
Speaker 3:The Tomita one yeah.
Speaker 2:It's beautiful, beautiful. So if you want to go a little deeper, check out Reiki Lifestyles podcast with you on it. So I think it's just out right, I think it was just the other day.
Speaker 1:Just the other day, right, I think it was just the other day, just the other day, perfect, perfect timing, wonderful, wonderful.
Speaker 2:So where can we find you? If someone wants to go a little deeper or find out about things that you're going to announce, how do they connect with you?
Speaker 3:We have two main places. So one is on Facebook, is like my most up to date things, you know, new findings, events, talks like this. I'll promote them all on my Facebook and it's Justin B Stein Reiki Research. It's kind of my public page so that's definitely, if you're on Facebook, a good follow, I think, for Reiki folks. And then I also have a website, and then I also have a website, justinsteinacademiaedu, and I have a lot of publications available there from various journals and chapters, from edited volumes, for folks who talks I've given and so, yeah, for folks who are interested in reading more of my stuff, there's a lot of things available there for free, beautiful, and I just love history so much I just eat all this up.
Speaker 2:So thank you. Thank you for all of your work and what you do for the Reiki community. It's really wonderful to get that correct information out there to those that are beginning and those that are currently, you know, sharing Reiki with the world. So that ends the first part of our journey. I'm going to pass you on to my co-guide, rose, that has some questions for you.
Speaker 1:I have a few questions, but I do also want to say I'm very impressed with all the work that you've done and very grateful, because when I first started or learned about Reiki 30 years ago and practiced 20 years ago, there wasn't a lot out there. So it really helps to kind of, you know, just create more of an awareness and clarity around the practice, which is beautiful. So I have some questions that were provided by listeners. So one is recently, around April or so, on your Facebook page where you announce everything you did, announce some breaking news and that there's a series of documents have recently been discovered. Can you talk about and share more about that discovery?
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, and I'll mention a bit here. But also, as Tracy mentioned, I think we go a little deeper into it more time on Colin and Robin's Reiki Lifestyle Podcast. So if people who want to hear more about it, I definitely you could check that out as well. Um, but, but in short, um, these were really. This is a really amazing find. I think it's one of the most significant um historical discoveries about the life of usui.
Speaker 3:You know, probably in 20 years, 30 years, like since, since the memorial stone finding, in a sense it is basically a handwritten resume or CV of Usui's life up to 1904. And so 1904, he got hired in Taiwan, which was a Japanese colony at the time, to work for the colonial government, studying Taiwanese law. He had some law training before Taiwan became a Japanese colony and as part of this hiring process he wrote out all of his education, all the different places where he studied, as well as his work experience, and there's a number of items in there that resonate interestingly and help corroborate, maybe some aspects of the story that Hawaii Okada told of Usui in his life. It's not 100% match to match and also there's maybe a little bit of missing time between it seems like he gets back from Taiwan to Japan in 1911, and then he starts teaching Reiki in 1922. According to other accounts we have, he was an intense Zen practitioner for three years before Kurama. So there's like 1911 to 1918, maybe this kind of you know now black box or whatever. But the fact that we have that pre history is really interesting. And so some of the highlights there include that, for example, that Usui came to the United States to study we know that, you know that's part of the Takata story. That's also on the memorial stone.
Speaker 3:But specifically it seems that Usui came to the US, it says, to study philosophy and psychology, and psychology being a very new science at the time, and that he had studied previously in Tokyo under this like top experimental psychologist, motora Yuji. And it says that when he went to the US he studied at the Hawking School. And we don't know what the Hawking School was, but Motora had studied at Johns Hopkins under at the time, you know, one of the top experimental psychologists in the world at Hopkins. Now, unfortunately, that guy had left by the time Usui went to the United States and the guy who took his position hasn't had his papers well archived.
Speaker 3:I couldn't find any evidence that Usui enrolled at Johns Hopkins, but it's more breadcrumbs on the trail about like, where did Usui Sensei study in the United States? Like possibly in Baltimore? So I'm going to try to keep working on that. And then, very interesting, after that he worked in San Francisco, I think for about 18 months at the Custom House in San Francisco, probably helping translate stuff for Japanese people entering the United States at that time. And so I'm actually in touch right now with the National Archives to see what kinds of documents exist from the San Francisco Customs House from 1899 to 1900, or, I forget, 1898 to 1899. And so I'm waiting to hear back from them right now. It's possible we'll find his pay stub or something you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:How cool is that? I mean, researching is so cool.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of time, but it's. It's really fun. It's a detective hunt.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then when he got back to Japan, he was working for a American women's missionary society in Japan and helped set up a school which would have been like a Christian school in Tokyo for them and served as the supervisor or like the principal of the school, which, again in the Takata story, she told it different ways and different tellings. You know, in some tellings he was the president of Doshisha University in Kyoto, but in other tellings he was the head of a Christian boys' school. And so this again I'm going to try to dig. It seems a good fit would be the Methodist church, which at the time was called the Methodist Episcopal Church, and they had a very strong women's foreign missionary society. They had a school in the neighborhood of Tokyo where Usui Sensei started his school right around the same time. The salaries and their budgets seemed to match the salary on his CV. So he couldn't.
Speaker 3:You know, was Usui Sensei a Methodist? I don't know, but it seems that he may have been. You know, could have. You know, was Usumi Sensei a Methodist? I don't know, but it seems that he may have been, you know, teaching or you know supervising at this Methodist school in Tokyo in the early 20th century. So again there's like these kind of exciting, you know, for people who are Reiki history nerds, this is big, this is big time stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love that. This is great. So the next question thank you for that answer. So one of the questions here is one of the lineages, of course, that you come from is Madame Takata, which I think is awesome because I think she's a rock star. To be honest with you, Most of us are right.
Speaker 3:I mean I'd say 90% of the Reiki practitioners in the world at least. I mean go back to Takata, takata, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just love that she was so instrumental. She was a female, you know that brought Reiki to the US. I love that. So, using the life and work of Hawaii Takata, why was her work so important in the history of Reiki?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, without her Reiki would not be a global phenomenon, right that she, you know, brought it out of Japan. You know where, before World War II, usui de Kiryōho was practiced by, I would say, tens of thousands of people in Japan. Probably. We have some evidence, some member directories and things like that. I've never sat down and counted all the names, but the tens of thousands, let's say. But after World War II it really declines and there would still be, I would say, a few hundred practitioners in Japan today without Takata, but there wouldn't be a million people around the world practicing Reiki, or millions, we don't know exactly how many.
Speaker 1:Do you think it declined or do you think it just wasn't um registered or documented?
Speaker 3:I mean both. I think, um, the, the society has been, I would say, somewhat under the radar, uh, for a long time and actually and it seems like that was Usui and Hayashi's teaching was don't advertise, don't you know? Do this too publicly. We don't you know, we can only speculate about why. But that that was recorded by people at the time, saying you know, I'm writing this newspaper article about this amazing therapy, but my teacher wouldn't like that. I'm writing this because they don't want it to be too public, but it's so amazing I have to tell the world about it, you know. So so yeah, it's, it's definitely by design, been kind of under the radar since the beginning in Japan, but it also, I think, the the overall numbers of members of the organization, I think, took a nosedive in the post-war period, but then, yeah.
Speaker 3:So Takada, I mean, she's the reason all of us are doing Reiki, she's the reason we're talking about Reiki.
Speaker 3:So I think it's hard to overestimate her importance for the global history of Reiki.
Speaker 3:And then she also did a lot of cultural translation work where she took a practice that may not have been really accessible to non-Japanese folks and figured out how to make some changes to make it a viable practice and also part of what I argue in my book is introduce some new teachings to try to make her students and their students more Japanese in certain ways. So things around the importance of reciprocity, right. She added new teachings about, you know, the exchange of energies. She added a new you know Reiki precept or ideal about honor your parents, teachers and elders, which Japanese people don't need to be taught right, but hippies, you know her 1970s white, you know kind of Christian upbringing, but countercultural students did need to be taught that right. And so I think that she both made Reiki you know a worldwide thing but also I think, helped you know, guide Reiki into a particular direction that made it more you know able to spread and also, I think, helped enculturate you know her students to Japanese values in a way by adding or adapting parts of the practice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, beautiful, by adding or adapting parts of the practice. Yeah, yeah, great, beautiful and uh. The last question I have is in the 1970s, madam takata placed so she charged about ten thousand dollars for master training, yeah, uh. So now that you've studied her work, do you view her placing this cost for this training as a way to just limit the modality for people who were able to afford it? Or for a way for her to self-persevere her energy, because she lived to 90, versus Usui's passing of a stroke and Usui working with over 2,000 people then passing at the age of 65 or perhaps a way to provide an opportunity for more devotion to her students? So why do you think she charged $10,000 for training back then, was it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:no it's a great question. I think there's a lot of there's a lot in that question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's start with that. Why do you think she? Charged so much money. Do you think she was just kind of saying it's only for people that afford it or for people that are really serious?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the narratives around money like by Takata are really interesting and I could talk for that, you know, for another 45 minutes, I think, on this topic, but I'll try to keep it pretty brief. So she definitely had this sense that you know you have to give up something of value or you're not going to value the teaching, that it has to be significant in order to bring gratitude, the necessary gratitude, in the practitioner. She really believed that. You know, people believe that you get what you pay for and so if you don't charge enough, people aren't really going to value the teachings as much. I think she also was building off of her own experience with her teacher. She said that she had to sell her house in order to pay for her teacher training and I think that might be true.
Speaker 3:I don't have like the smoking gun in terms of, but she did sell her house around the time of getting her master training from Hayashi. I don't know exactly how much he charged for Shinpiden, but I think it was quite significant. The Usui de Kirioho Gakkai had quite significant fees for becoming a member. Now is part of that like an elitist classist, you know, thing Like maybe they had a lot of upper class folks, because they were the ones who could afford it.
Speaker 3:At the same time, it does seem that in Japan, and also in Takada's early practice, and you know throughout her life there was, I want to say, kind of like a sliding scale and adaptations for folks who really wanted or needed treatment or teaching but couldn't quite make the prescribed, you know, fees. In Japan it seems like there were times where you would pay for treatment and there were times where treatment was made available for free. It seems that in early Usui-riki-ryoho in Hawaii there was the same thing, where there were set fees for particular types of treatment but, for example, someone with chronic illness who Takata wanted to treat every single day, they weren't paying the same fee that she would charge for a normal one hour treatment, you know, for 30 days in a row. Right, there were arrangements made to make what she saw as the best course of treatment available for people who really needed a lot of Reiki.
Speaker 1:It was bartering or something too. There could have been a barter right.
Speaker 3:Well yeah, and in some of her students I talk about this in chapter three of my book some of her students didn't charge any money, but they were within the Japanese American community that knows you don't just take stuff and not have reciprocity. And so people would bring whether it's money, flowers, food, beer, like there were all kinds of gifts that were given to prominent Reiki practitioners in Hawaii throughout this period when they didn't have set fees. It was just kind of assumed listen, I'm doing something for you, you're going to repay me in some way, right? That's just kind of part of the culture Now in terms of the $10,000, just kind of part of the culture Now in terms of the $10,000, she did have arrangements with some students where, for example, they could organize classes for her and the money from that classes would be applied to the $10,000.
Speaker 3:Rick Bachner I talk about in my book. You know he was a tree planter. He was living in an off the grid cabin that he had built himself in the woods. He had a baby, a new baby, and his wife was pregnant. He's like listen, I want it. And she loved and she thought he was a very good student and she really wanted him to be a Reiki master and he was the final Reiki master she initiated before she passed. And so she said OK, if you can give me five,000 and organize classes, that will add up to another 5,000, that works.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, on the one hand, I think that she established these high fees in part because of that's the way she had been taught, in part because she really believed that it made someone really value what they were receiving, and also in part, I think, that she wasn't such a stickler for the fees as maybe she's sometimes portrayed. That we know that, for example, she was teaching a class where there were you know 10, 12, you know people who were paying for the class. She would also initiate the organizer's parents for free or their children for free. So we're told never give it away for free. Well, no, you know there are you know loopholes. Let's say, right, where it's like okay, someone who's elderly and they have a child who's paying for the class, okay, I'll throw in the elderly parent for free, or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I have to say, $10,000 is a lot of money, even today.
Speaker 3:So yeah, oh, I mean, I have the, the uh inflation.
Speaker 1:I think it's more like a hundred thousand dollars when she I, I, yeah, wow, that's I'm glad some more I I'm glad it became more affordable, um, so so the other part of it was, you know, maybe it also was a way to say how she valued her own energy as well, because, I mean, she did live to 80 and she didn't start out healthy on this journey, but because of reiki she was able to um live a long life.
Speaker 3:Hopefully one of the reasons she had a much better work-life balance than usui sensei, for example that I think with that person that he he died young and and I think he burned out like a, like a, you know a hot flame kind of.
Speaker 3:And Takata would always talk about, she would carry her own clubs to do nine holes of golf. She was, I mean, into her seventies, late seventies. I mean she was winning golf tournaments. She, you know, was a very active, which I think both you know is showing her status right on some level. Right, she's, you know, a Japanese lady, you know, in this very white, dominated you know kind of game in the us. And then, but also her activity and her vitality, right, that she um, uh, you know, was very conscious of diet. She um was into juicing, you know, long time before most folks were um, you know, she was largely vegetarian but ate fish, um, and occasion, like, I think, maybe once a week, she liked lamb kidney which apparently has some uh, kind of yeah, certainly, yeah, yeah, yeah, but also like chinese medicine. I think has some connections there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need to have a movie about the life of times of Takata.
Speaker 3:So a good friend of mine works for PBS and is Reiki master in New York City and she has been pushing an American Masters PBS episode about Takata. Oh, that would be great. I would love to see that. Yeah, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I want to say too, I want to circle back to something you said about integrating practices with integrity. I love that you said that, because one of the things that I practice Reiki, but I'm also a Qigong practitioner and I've studied a lot of Qigong and learning other ways to use Qigong to heal and integrating the two practices. It's really powerful to do that. And so, yeah, I know we, you know we have Reiki, but there is also other ways to invite energy and healing and it's it's all wonderful and beautiful. So, anyway, but thank you for the answers to those questions and yeah, so hand it off back to Tracy.
Speaker 3:All right Actually can you jump in on that one?
Speaker 3:That one last point that was briefly.
Speaker 3:You know I've I've heard from you know, some people regarding that point about also like transparency, right, and so like if you're going to be bringing some other practice into Reiki, to like let folks know about that, like maybe like that's also part of integrity and like, oh, yeah, yeah, that like because some people are like oh, I'm doing reiki and then they're, I don't know, doing shamanic practices or doing um, whatever it is, and um, it's like I think that's part of also adds to some of the confusion like what is reiki? Is reiki about entities? Is reiki about ascended masters? Is reiki about, you know, angels? And so that like to like having that kind of, I think, clarity with people like hey, listen, you know this is my spiritual path, and like it's not, you know, I add this on to reiki or something you know, that um helps, I think, maybe hopefully clarify things, because I think there's a lot of, yeah, people out there who are doing you know, I don't know, and maybe angelic reiki, but don't call it angelic reiki and say, oh, this is reiki or something you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just be upfront about the whole thing. I'd like to ask one more question, and I always ask people who I about ask. This question is like what is your vision for reiki? How do you see it evolving or changing, or?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean, that's a great question.
Speaker 3:I think what rose sorry bros, what tracy had mentioned about, um, the mainstreaming of reiki, that like, where um it has, you know, become a word that you know has become very pervasive with, I mean, it's I don't know again which of these trends are going to be long lasting, but people doing like asmr videos, where it's like, you know, kind of like, put your phone next to you while you do a meditation and allow me to send reiki through the phone and through my, you know, um, you know, healing vibrations of the, whatever you know, I mean that does seem to be like one kind of way where, like, reiki is moving. But I hope that, like as we talked about, there's also this kind of sense that like Reiki is moving. But I hope that, like as we talked about, there's also this kind of sense that like okay, you know, I just was writing about this the other day Like, when you look up like hashtag Reiki on Instagram, so many things come up that really have like very little to do with Reiki, right About?
Speaker 3:you know the. Are you seeing these angel numbers appearing? You know nine, nine, nine, and it's like is this Reiki? Like. You know 999, and it's like is this reiki, like you know? But hashtag reiki, right like? Or um, you know different stuff out there that we're like. I think I hope that the future, that the what makes like reiki particular and special, isn't kind of lost in this kind of generalization of reiki as just like another term for the vibrations of the universe.
Speaker 3:Like well on some level it is the vibrations of the universe. It's also a particular type of practice, and so I hope that the future of Reiki both continues to see the mainstreaming of it that you know, the integration of it into biomedical spaces, I think can be really great, and we've seen, you know, hospitals all over the world kind of, I think, taking up more things like that but also that it doesn't just become this generic name for everything right for any kind of spiritual practice I think.
Speaker 1:but I think it's because of people like yourselves who are doing research and, you know, really getting that information out there and saying this is, you know, this is real. So I think people like yourself will maintain, help maintain that integrity of the practice, and people like Tracy who are doing this and bringing people like yourselves on. So that's just my two cents. I think that is wonderful work that you're doing, so thank you.
Speaker 3:From your lips to God's ears, you know. So, as we come to finish our time together as we've been talking, is there anything that you might have forgotten about, something that you want to share? The floor is yours, I think you know. It seems like a lot of the focus of the show is for practitioners, for new practitioners getting their grounding, and so, because I'm not a Reiki master, I'm only a level two practitioner and I teach about Reiki, I lead people in, you know, sometimes Reiki meditations and things like that, but I don't have my own Reiki students and sometimes I think I get a little bit like am I really the right person to be answering all these questions? Sometimes I think I get a little bit like am I really the?
Speaker 3:right person to be answering all these questions, but at the same time, yeah, I just I hope my perspective is helpful for your listeners and, yeah, just thanks for having me Absolutely, just so you know you are, because it's all lineages, all levels.
Speaker 2:Everyone is a teacher. Everyone you meet is a teacher and will teach you something new. So whether someone is that curious beginner to the seasoned master teacher, I mean, you taught me a couple things today. I had always heard that story about Madam Takata charging as much as you would be for a house right in Hawaii, but I didn't even connect that she sold her own home, because what I was taught is that she worked for Hitoshi in the clinic, so it never even connected that that was the possibility that she paid for um hatashi and her in the clinic, so it never even connected that that was the possibility that she paid for for this. So it's quite interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think her apprenticeship, you know she lived with the hayashi's um and so, yeah, she was like the uchi deshi, you know, living with them. But I don't think that necessarily paid for her her training fees and things like that as well.
Speaker 1:Okay and also, well, there was something else he said oh yeah, the the thing about everyone being, but I don't think that necessarily paid for her training fees and things like that as well.
Speaker 3:Ok, and also there was something else you said. Oh, yeah, the thing about everyone being your teacher. I heard my friend Diane, who I mentioned before, the one who works in New York City. She, I think, usui Shiki Ryoho and you have the Takata style precepts or ideals about honor your parents, teachers and elders, and some people have a very big blockage with that. And, um, you know what, if you know you've been in bad relationships with people, that that you know that it's not only the people you know literally you're like parents and you know literally your teachers, but that everyone around you on some level is kind of helping give birth to a new you, is helping teach you, and so that it's. You know, the teachers as well have to learn from our students, learn from our colleagues, and, yeah, that we we really have to honor, you know, everyone.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, justin, so much for taking time out of your very, very busy schedule to join us, rose, thank you as well, rose. Do you want to tell our listeners once again where they can find you?
Speaker 2:just rose whoopagecom and my podcast is chat off the mat and make sure to check out reiki lifestyles as well, because justin's featured on that as well. It goes a little bit deeper. Well, thank you everyone for joining us on this journey. If you'd like your question featured on the podcast, reach out. You'll find it at wwwreadysetrickycom. Check out social media or send me an email. I'm Tracy Seawright and this has been Ready.
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