The Hidden Pillars of Successful Lighting Design Businesses | with Paul Nulty

What does it really take to run a successful lighting design business? Beyond the creative brilliance and technical expertise lies a complex web of business skills that many designers never anticipate when launching their own practice.

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Re-release of a presentation from our 'Business of Lighting Design' series from the first season on the VLD Community platform.  To watch this presentation visit members.vld.community and head to the 'Season One - The Business of Lighting Design' section.  

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In this presentation, award-winning lighting designer Paul Nulty (founder of Nulty Lighting) pulls back the curtain on the business fundamentals that separate thriving lighting design practices from struggling ones. Drawing from his own entrepreneurial journey spanning over two decades, Paul introduces a straightforward yet powerful four-pillar business model that forms the backbone of any successful design practice.

The revelation that actual lighting design work constitutes merely 25% of running a business serves as both a reality check and roadmap for aspiring practice owners. Through candid insights and practical wisdom, Paul details how Operations, Human Resources, Business Development, and Finance must work in harmony—with each demanding equal time and attention from practice leaders.

For many creative professionals, topics like sales strategies, financial management, and team building feel foreign or uncomfortable. Yet Paul makes a compelling case for embracing these skills not only for personal success but for elevating the entire lighting design profession. His refreshing honesty about his own limitations ("I want to be the worst person at everything in my practice") offers a powerful lesson in leveraging team strengths.

Beyond tactical advice, this presentation delves into the deeper questions of purpose and passion that should drive any business endeavor. Paul guides listeners through crafting meaningful vision and mission statements that serve as both compass and fuel for the entrepreneurial journey.

Whether you're contemplating starting your own lighting design practice or seeking to strengthen an existing one, this presentation delivers the framework and inspiration to transform creative talent into business success. The path may be challenging, but with passion, purpose, and professional acumen, the business of lighting design offers rewards well worth the journey.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting the Stage for Business
• 10:45 The Four Pillars of Business
• 18:08 Operations and HR Fundamentals
• 21:36 Business Development and Finance
• 28:42 Defining Your Purpose and Vision
• 34:17 Creating Mission Statements for Success

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Coming up on the podcast. The business of lighting design is the business of requiring a whole new skill set from that of being just the lighting designer. And I'm not going to lie when I started my practice, I certainly didn't have many of the skills that were required, and if you thought that there was a very diverse set of skills required to be a lighting designer, I can tell you that diverse set of skills is even larger when it comes to running your own practice. Now, I can't profess to be the best at everything in my business. I am far from the best accountancy person, far from the most creative of people, but I am pretty good at all of the skills that are required. My philosophy has always been to be perfectly confident at surrounding myself with people that are better than me. In fact, my first ever business plan finished with a very simple closing line I want to be the worst person at everything in my practice.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Welcome to the Virtual Lighting Design Community Podcast. This is the space for lighting designers, by lighting designers a global platform to share knowledge, dive into hot topics shaking up the industry and connect with fellow creatives and experts. Here you'll get a mix of long form and short form content straight from the heart of VLDC. Don't forget, you can also jump online and explore more exclusive content at membersvldcommunity or catch us on our YouTube channel. Now let's dive into today's episode. In today's episode, we are featuring Paul Nolte speaking on the business of lighting design setting the stage. It was the first presentation in our business of lighting design series back in Season 1. Inspiring and very well received, paul Nolte set up Nolte Lighting in 2011 and is founder of the practice. He is an award-winning architectural lighting designer and has been involved with a wide variety of prestigious projects in a career spanning 21 years. Combining creativity with an eye for detail, his theatrical lighting background provides a unique understanding of the relationship between space and light. Paul leads the practice in a collaborative way to ensure it continually evolves and refines its service, knowledge and innovation. Paul is a professional member of the International Association of Lighting Designers, a professional member of the Society of Light and Lighting and a professional member of the Institute of Lighting Designers, a professional member of the Society of Light and Lighting and a professional member of the Institute of Lighting Professionals.

Speaker 2: 2:29

Let's have a quick pause to acknowledge some of our sponsors. Thank you to one of our advanced supporters, aerolight, who have been with VLDC since the very beginning, with a vision to become the preferred brand for hotel lighting. Aerolight's mission is to create value with light. Since 2006, they have masterfully illuminated over 300 luxury hotel projects across the globe, specialising in innovative and high-quality LED lighting solutions exclusively for the hospitality sector. They work hand-in-hand with world-renowned lighting designers and hotel groups, ensuring every detail is perfect. It's this commitment to excellence and collaboration that makes them a true leader in the field. Learn more at aerolightcn. We also want to acknowledge another one of our pioneering supporters the Signify Lighting Academy. The Signify Lighting Academy is dedicated to sharing knowledge and empowering professionals just like you. Their mission is to help you deepen your understanding of light and stay at the forefront of the industry. Through their comprehensive range of free webinars, online courses and in-depth articles, they bridge the gap between cutting-edge innovation and practical application. To explore their offerings, visit signifycom slash lighting academy. Now back to the show.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Hello, my name is Paul Nolte and I am founder of Nolte Lighting. We are an independent lighting design studio based in London, dubai, bangkok and Miami, and this is season one, episode one the business of lighting design for the VLD community, and this presentation is entitled Setting the Stage. So I would first like to start with a very simple question, or what appears to be a very simple question what are you? And really, really, perhaps the question should really be why are you? I don't mean that as much existentially, I really mean, you know, kind of why are you a lighting designer? Because if you're anything like me, then at some point in your life you found this sort of calling and a passion for the wonderfully intangible subject and substance that is light. If nothing else, it's probably why you're here listening to this presentation today. You've probably spent many years at school, college or university, or maybe even in professional practice, training and honing your skills as a lighting designer. It's obviously a role that affects the lives of many, many people, who often have no clue that we exist as lighting designers or the impact that we are having on their lives. So well done. You know you are a lighting designer. You've perhaps achieved all of the ambitions that you wanted in life. And I find, as a lighting designer, it to be a wonderful role because we work at this sort of crossroads or this intersection of creativity and technology. And I would probably venture further that these days it's less of a crossroads because we're working with engineering, with science, with psychology, with sociology and even environmental awareness knowledge, science with psychology, with sociology and even environmental awareness knowledge. So it's less of a crossroads and more of a major intersection of highways of knowledge. But each of these factors is a skill and it's knowledge that we've had to learn and hone over many, many years as we've risen through the ranks of lighting designers, from junior designer perhaps to intermediate, to senior, to associates, to director and so on.

Speaker 1: 6:09

And during that journey I hope you may have had your interest sort of peaked when it comes to the mechanics of the business of lighting and lighting practice. I mean, after all, how does the practice that you work for win projects? How does it retain clients? How does it even go about making a profit? How do the fairies turn up every month with a magic bag of money and manage to pay everybody? All kind of important questions. But the reality of it is. It's not magic, and I hope today I can at least set the stage for the kind of skills and knowledge that are required when it comes to the practice and the business of lighting design in the past.

Speaker 1: 7:04

Maybe in the future that you may find that you've sort of hit your head on the great glass ceiling of the career ladder and decide that you want to go out on your own and start your own practice. Maybe that's something you've always wanted to do. So the idea of starting out of your own well, firstly, it's potentially quite scary. It's definitely an unknown quantity for many people and you know, most people when they start out think you know what. I'm going to go be a lighting designer for myself. I've got all these skills that I've honed over many years. I am a well-oiled, well-primed lighting design machine and I'm capable of amazing creative thinking and outputting the most beautiful of documentation and designs and so forth. So you know I can speak for firsthand here.

Speaker 1: 7:49

Perhaps when we start our own practices we rather naively think this lighting design malarkey is going to be incredibly easy.

Speaker 1: 7:58

But I can tell you that one of the things that I have certainly learned over the years is that it isn't easy at all, largely because you are no longer just a lighting designer.

Speaker 1: 8:10

There are so many other elements to the role of professional practice and the business of lighting design that are required beyond just being a lighting designer and, as I mentioned earlier on, there are so many strands now to being a lighting designer.

Speaker 1: 8:25

It really is difficult to say you're just a lighting designer and, as I mentioned earlier on, there were so many strands now to being a lighting designer. It really is difficult to say you're just a lighting designer. So no, now you are in business, and I would imagine, if you're in business and the whole definition of business is that you're in it to make money, hopefully pay the bills, maybe even grow and develop, and if you're strategic enough, it's quite possible you may have a business plan in place. So what is the business of lighting design? Well, as I've already said, you're no longer just a lighting designer, and really that's where the crux of this presentation lies, because this is a business after all, and this is probably, I hope, to an extent where you start to feel a bit like a rabbit in the headlights and a bit kind of oh my God, what else do I need to know?

Speaker 1: 9:12

Well, I'm hoping, as I work through this presentation today, that I will at least be able to impart upon you a very simple business model and some very simple strategic thinking about the way that you might implement your business. And if you thought that there was a very diverse set of skills required to be a lighting designer, I can tell you that a diverse set of skills is even larger when it comes to running your own practice. So let's just have a think about that, because once you set out on your own, you're no longer just a lighting designer. You are deep breath here a salesperson. You're a bookkeeper, a manager, a business strategist. You're possibly a boss. If you employ people, you'll need to have a really good understanding of accountancy, of legalities, of contract law. You may need to understand employment law and HR law. You're definitely going to need to understand conflict resolution, because you can no longer pass those difficult contractors and clients off to your boss. You've got to deal with them yourself. You might even find yourself employing people, and it's going to be your role to inspire them every day, even when you're having a tough time. You're going to need to be a quick thinker. You're going to be constantly troubleshooting, you're responsible for dealing with those difficult contractors on site, and it is your reputation, your insurance and your hard work that you put on the line every single day. And once you've done all of that, you've then got to chase the money in and hopefully make sure you get paid. So there is one sure thing about the business of lighting design it's that there is no hiding, but I can honestly assure you it is incredibly rewarding when you get it right. So the business of lighting design is the business of requiring a whole new skill set from that of being just the lighting designer.

Speaker 1: 11:13

And I'm not going to lie. When I started my practice, I certainly didn't have many of the skills that were required. For me, it was a case of make it up as you go along and figure it out. So I'm hoping at least I can give some of you a head start today. Now I can't profess to be the best at everything in my business. I am far from the best accountancy person, far from the most creative of people, but I am pretty good at all of the skills that are required. My philosophy has always been to be perfectly confident at surrounding myself with people that are better than me. In fact, my first ever business plan finished with a very simple closing line. I want to be the worst person at everything in my practice and I can tell you that, even if I didn't know it, though, I certainly understood what I didn't know. I certainly understood that I needed to know certain things to be able to manage a business and in many respects that meant that I needed to become a bit of a Swiss army knife of skills, a multitude of skills, a multitude of skills that are required to run a practice.

Speaker 1: 12:25

So there is a relatively uh simple business model. As I mentioned, you know, you are accountant, you are uh marketeer, you are creative, you're operations person, but all of these elements, all of these skills that are required, fit largely into four uh camps, or we refer to them as four pillars of the business. So if you are feeling a bit like, oh my gosh, my mind is blown at the prospect of having to know all of these things, well, rest assured, they can be sort of distilled down into these four very simple silos or pillars or camps when it comes to the business of lighting design. So these four pillars, they are operations, which is the in-business operations as well as the on-business operations. This is the financial performance of the business. There is the human resources, the HR side of the business, and there is business development, which has three strings to it Marketing, communications, sales and public relations. And I will go through each of these in a little bit more detail, if that's OK.

Speaker 1: 13:34

But what's really important to realize here is that the job of lighting design the stuff that you've always done in your role as junior, intermediate and senior that falls basically into 25% of this business model, and I can almost hear the gasps and the inhalation of breath. You know 25%. But I'm a creative, you know I want to be a lighting designer, I want to take charge of my life, I want work life balance. Well, I'm, you know'm sorry to, I guess, tell you, but part of the role of running your own business is to relinquish some of that fun to other people and to look at some of the other pillars as well. So, ultimately, 25% of what you're doing is probably lighting design, and I shall go on and explain that a little bit more. But unfortunately, you know, you're not just a lighting designer anymore. So one of the questions I first want to ask is well, why? Why do I need to think about these other sort of pillars and not just looking at being a lighting designer on my own terms?

Speaker 1: 14:46

Well, firstly and this goes to anyone in the business of lighting design, even those that are freelancers for other practices you're still a small business, which ultimately means you need to make money, and in order to make money, you need clients and projects. And if you don't conduct yourself and deliver your projects in a successful way, then you're soon going to find that you lose clients and are not making any money and you will very quickly find that you go out of business. And you will very quickly find that you go out of business and certainly your reputation will start diminishing. So it is really important to be as professional as possible and getting your house in order, getting your business in order, getting the strategy in place, is really key to allowing you to operate in the most professional way possible. It also has an added bonus. Getting your professional house in order works for you, allows you to operate more successfully and more efficiently, but it also has a major impact on the wider lighting design industry and community.

Speaker 1: 15:53

And the reason I say that is because we as a, as an industry, you know, for many years we've not been taken as seriously as we should have been. In my opinion, I think it is important upon us all to represent the industry. You know, for too long we've been a tertiary consultant at the table, considered frivolous. For too long. We, you know, get value engineered too quickly and I think we're at a bit of a turning point now. I think now we're finally maturing as an industry and we're finally being taken more seriously at the consultant's table and in many instances we are considered a key consultant when it comes to developing the design for any project. So it is important that we represent the industry, because the more professional our industry can be, the greater the gravitas it is given. So you know, I'm asking you to pay attention to these business models and strategies for your sake as well as our wider sake. So I want to touch now on these sort of four pillars, uh, if that's okay, um, and talk about what is important, uh, within each of those pillars.

Speaker 1: 17:04

So the first, as I mentioned, is operations. Um, operations is, you know, on one hand, pretty obvious. It is what you do, it is the business of being a lighting designer. So it is. You know writing those specifications. It is right you do. It is the business of being a lighting designer. So it is. You know writing those specifications. It is right you know producing the drawings, coming up with the most creative, um, uh, designs. It is project managing, uh, the projects. It is the stuff we do on projects to earn fees, um, which is wonderful, um, it really is, uh. But we mustn't forget that is ultimately the in-business stuff. You, as a business owner now, well, you now have to do the on-business stuff, and this is something we mustn't forget, because on-business is your business strategy, it's your process, it's how your business operates. It is not the producing of templates, it is the design of the templates, it's the stylization, it is the information that you feel important to get across to clients. The on-business stuff is the way that you operate, not what you're doing, but the way that you're doing it, and that needs time to genuinely think about. So don't ever underestimate the importance of thinking time when it comes to the on-business strategic works.

Speaker 1: 18:21

The second pillar is HR. Probably seems obvious what this is. You know it's really going about recruiting the right team to deliver your in-business operations, your lighting projects. It's also about finding the right people to assist you in your on-business operations, the people like PAs and operations directors and secretaries, those people that really support your designers and support your wider team. But it isn't just about recruiting the right people. It's about keeping them happy. Do they like coming to work? Do they enjoy being in the workplace? It's about ensuring that they understand the values and the culture of the business that you want to build and how to go about fulfilling your vision and mission statements, which I will come on to later. And it's also about ensuring that the needs of the business evolve and the team evolves with the needs of the business as well. The better the team, the easier it is to deliver your operations, it goes without saying. So HR is quite a key element within running your own practice.

Speaker 1: 19:33

The third pillar, business development Yuck, I can hear people say this is the bit that most designers hate because it's such a dirty word. It's sales. But the reality of it is, if you can't win any work, you're not going to have any projects to actually be designing and doing your operation stuff and you're not going to have the projects for your wonderful team that you've employed to do. So business development is a really key part of of what you're going to have to do every single day that you own and operate your own design practice. So, whether you like it or not, you have to generate business and, in my opinion, for what's worth, that sort of business development gets split into three streams. The first is traditional sales reaching out to people. It's having introductory meetings, it's networking, it's farming old clients, it's doing your best to generate direct leads and that hopefully turns into inquiries that then hopefully turn into live projects, turns into inquiries that then hopefully turn into live projects.

Speaker 1: 20:37

The second stream is public relations. This is telling the world that you've been doing great business. It is writing press releases, it is responding to journalists and so forth. I can tell you now, if you can't shout about how good you are, nobody else will. You have to have the self-belief and confidence to back yourself and tell people and this is what thought leadership is about. But it's also a little bit more subtle and complex than simply shouting about it. It's also about understanding your tone of voice. How do you want to come across? What kind of relationship do you want with the readers? How do you want your character to be perceived? What is your brand messaging and how does that differ from your competitors?

Speaker 1: 21:23

The third stream it ties in quite nicely with that second PR stream. It is marketing or marcoms. These days it is mostly led by websites, by blogs and so forth, and or social media. Instagram is obviously a very key part in all of that and it's very difficult to gauge the return on the effort and investment that you put in when it comes to marketing, because it's a very rare occurrence and I've spoken to many people in the industry about this. Most people will say it's a very rare occurrence that you can directly attribute a project coming in to marketing. It is more about sort of putting noise and positioning yourself against other people in the industry, but it still does require a strategy. It still requires an understanding of tone of voice, of personality and differentiation from competitors and successful businesses.

Speaker 1: 22:21

Whether you are in fast food, lighting, design, architecture or manufacturing, successful businesses the world over have marketing and communications and PR and business development strategies and, believe me, as I say, if you can't win projects, you're not going to have any work to do, which means you won't be doing your operations and you won't have any staff to do them because you won't have any money to pay your staff. So it is a very important part of what you do, and getting your strategy right is important because ultimately you've got to make money, otherwise the business of lighting design is not going to be a business for very long, which leads on to the fourth pillar, finance. And if you thought sales was a dirty word, then ask most lighting designers about money and let's say it's dirtier than a used baby's used diaper. None of us like talking about money, let alone asking for money. We're terrible at it and I must confess it's the part of the business that I absolutely hate. I hate spreadsheets, I hate asking clients for money. I really hate chasing money and I have absolutely no patience when it comes to budgets and, frankly, I'm yet to come up with a fully scientific way of actually pricing a project as well. It's often a case of pricing it and then sticking a finger in the air and seeing which way the wind blows and then coming up with a sort of semi-scientific fee. And yet finance is absolutely key to the success of any business. The money has to come in because the bills have to be paid and staff have to be paid. Otherwise it's just a hobby and we should be able to charge a proper price for the work that we give, we should place a value on that work and we should understand better as an industry how to go about pricing it and how to go about getting paid as well.

Speaker 1: 24:29

As I say, if you can't get the money in, then you're not going to be able to pay your staff. Genuine truth here when I first started the practice and I was working on my own, I set up a fake email account for a lovely girl called katherine, and katherine used to send all of my invoices, um, and it meant katherine could be very stroppy, uh, when she needed to, when clients didn't pay, and then paul could come along and tell the you know on an email and apologize to the client for katherine being stro. But actually, mr Client, is there any way you could see yourself to paying us, because we have now completed the works? Obviously, catherine doesn't exist in our team anymore, but being able to separate the good guy from the bad person that needs to chase money in when clients don't pay is really important. So, as a tip, I would urge you to figure out how to carefully balance the need sometimes to roll your sleeves up and be tough with clients.

Speaker 1: 25:25

So what I hope you can see from this sort of presentation is that these sort of four pillars are deeply entwined, that these sort of four pillars are deeply entwined. You know you can have the best design skills, but if you don't have projects and don't do the business development, then you're not going to be able to use those design skills. And once you've done the work, if you don't chase the money in, you're not going to have the money to pay your staff. And if you don't have good staff, then you're sure as hell not going to be able to operate in an efficient way. So operations, finance, hr and business development are hugely entwined. So if you follow this, it's just a very simple business model. You should be spending 25 of your time, more or less, in each of those quadrants, in each of those pillars, and if you not doing it, then you should have somebody in your practice or in your life that is doing it for you. If you don't like doing it, at least know and understand that it needs to be done. So it's all sorted then? Right? You've now got a model for a successful business. You now know that you need to spend time in each of those pillars. Well, I would say no, I'm afraid not exactly. I just want to take a moment to rewind. It's all well and good knowing how a business operates. It's all well and good knowing what the business of lighting design is. Ultimately, it's a business and we're there to make money. However, let's just have a real think and a rewind about why we started up in the first place.

Speaker 1: 27:05

What is it that drove you to decide that you wanted to start up on your own? Were you perhaps bored? Were you uninspired? Do you think you could do things better or differently? Was it a lifestyle reason? Maybe you have a totally uh, you're interested. You have an interest in a totally different type of lighting. Maybe where you were working just did artificial light and you wanted to do daylighting. Maybe you wanted to do more disco lighting. Whatever it was, uh, you may well have seen a gap in the market. Maybe, just maybe, your beliefs no longer align with those of your employer. Whatever it is, there will have been many different reasons for many different people to start out on their own. But really drilling down and understanding why you want to go out on your own because I doubt that it's just for money Never chase the money, always chase doing the good job, doing the right thing, because then the success will come afterwards.

Speaker 1: 28:00

So drilling down as to why you want to go out on your own is key to understanding what you stand for and what I mean by. What do you stand for? Well, what is your purpose and what I mean by what do you stand for? Well, what is your purpose? What is purpose? Well, as the the lyric from the musical avenue q goes, purpose is that little flame that lights a fire under your ass, and isn't that true? Uh, you know, there's no, uh, there's no, uh, greater uh reason for getting out of bed in the morning than making sure you need to pay your bills, your mortgage to pay or your rent to pay. So there is definitely motivation to be had there, but it is that purpose.

Speaker 1: 28:39

Perhaps you want to save the world, perhaps you want to be more environmentally friendly. Whatever your purpose is, I think it is really important to understand it and define it, because it's going to help you create your own USPs and it will separate you from your competition. And if we start to understand our purpose, then we can start to build a brand around it, and that brand has to be passionate and it has to have a unique selling point, a USP. So, whether your purpose is to save the planet, to help the world, to bathe the world in more blue light, whatever your purpose is, it's going to define who you are and what your brand is, its ethics, its style, and it should be underpinned, ultimately, by your passion, because passion is absolutely everything. You have to be passionate about what you're doing. If you're not passionate about it, don't do it, and I can tell you that passion will help motivate you in the early hours of the morning, when you're still working, because the hours are going to be long, that's for sure. But if you get it right, you will develop your own unique selling point, and that's the very thing that will set you apart from all of your competitors.

Speaker 1: 29:56

Now, I'm not a big fan of lengthy business plans. I don't really believe in business plans per se. The reason for that is because I think business plans, you either fail at them or you completely blow them out of the water. So you're either using it as a stick to beat yourself up with because you didn't achieve it, or you're using it you know it's useless because you've overachieved. I think very few people hit the business plan on point. So for me, I wouldn't spend too long on a business plan, but I would spend a significant amount of time developing your vision statements and mission statements.

Speaker 1: 30:32

Now, what do I mean by vision statements? Well, as I said, you need to be passionate. You need to understand what kind of brand you want. You need to understand your purpose in life and, put simply, your vision statement is all of that written down. This is your goal in life. Whatever your goal in life is, it could be to. Goal in life is it could be to be a millionaire. It could be to build the best and most successful team ever. It could be to build the brand. It could be to create the first fully organic lighting design office equipped with organic coffee grinding facilities. Whatever it is, it's what you want it to be, um, and what it you know. Whatever it is, it's what you find passionate about, what you find you are passionate about. So I would urge anybody write it down. Write down exactly what you want it to be, and stick it on the wall and remind yourself of it regularly, because that is the reason that you get out of bed every single day.

Speaker 1: 31:27

And once you've understood your vision, then it's time to really think about your mission and where vision statements and mission statements differ. Your vision is about what you want to achieve. Your mission statement is, very simply, how you're going to achieve it. And this is the difficult bit in some ways, because you've really got to sit down strategically and think about how you might achieve it. Sit down strategically and think about how you might achieve it. You've got to think about how are you going to do your lighting design operations. How are you going to run your finance department? How are you going to run your HR teams? How are you going to bring people into your company? If that is what you want to do, and you know, if you do want to be the first ever organically powered, if you do want to be the first ever organically powered coffee grinding lighting institution, then that's fine you need to understand how you're going to go about developing that technology and those processes. So this is really where your mission statement comes in. It's about you understanding what needs to be done in order to achieve your goals. So, whatever your vision, your mission will be the pathway to achieving it. So we have our vision, we have our mission statement.

Speaker 1: 32:39

This, I hope means that we have an absolute passion for what we are doing. This is the business of lighting design. It is business we need to be professional about it. We have purpose because we know why we're doing what we're doing. We understand who we are, we understand what is driving us and we have an understanding of the mechanics of the business of lighting design. Passion, purpose and understanding for all that we do will breed success, and that is ultimately what I hope for anybody setting out on their own.

Speaker 1: 33:13

It's something I've done myself. It is the most amazing and scary roller coaster of a ride I have ever been on. I'm fortunate enough to stand on the shoulders of many giants in my team that I work with, and if you are interested in finding out a little bit more about Nolte and the way that we go about implementing these four pillars, then you can find out a little bit more about Nolte and the way that we go about implementing these four pillars. Then you can find out a little bit more about us on all of the usual social media channels and on our website at nolteelightingcom. If you have any questions, do feel free to get in contact and let me know. Many thanks.

Speaker 2: 33:49

And that's a wrap for today's episode of the Virtual Lighting Design Community Podcast. We hope you found some inspiration and connection in today's topics. For more, why not go back and listen to some of our previous conversations and presentations? Don't stop here. Keep the conversation going, dive into more exclusive content at membersvldcommunity or check out our videos on youtube. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow, subscribe and share it with your friends and peers in the lighting world. Your support helps us illuminate even more minds. Until next time, see you soon.