Friendships In The Wild* - With Rhys Matthew and Niall Heaton

*Disclaimer Warning - This episode openly discusses topics such as Suicide, Grief and Mental Heath. 

In this episode of Cre8ive Wrexhams Podcast, we meet Rhys Matthew and Niall Heaton who both live just outside Wrexham, and have been friends since childhood. Both friends have been involved in acting such a young age and this friendship saw them progress through school and into their early adulthood. Sadly their friendship drifted apart after the death of Niall's Brother, and became a difficult relationship to navigate for the future. In 2025, Rhys and Niall took part in BBC One's primetime show, Wild Reckoning with Bear Grylls, produced by Ty'r Ddraig here in Wrexham which helped the two friends rediscover themselves, find a common goal whilst being set out in the Welsh Countryside with nothing else to do but communicate once again. This is a heartfelt and beautiful story of two amazing Cre8ives that searched for a way to reconnect with each other, divided by grief and found once again through the ability to work together and communicate openly. Join me (Simon Jones) and co-host Émilie Freeman once again as we delve into their story of open communication, transparency and genuine friendship bonded again in the wild. Check out their episode of Wild Reckoning with Bear Grylls now available on BBC Player.......

Socials

Rhys Matthew Instagram Link 

Niall Heaton Instagram Link 

Link to BBC Player Episode (TV Licence Required)

Link to Ty'r Ddraig Production Website (Wrexham Based) 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to Creative Wrexham, a series honoring the storytellers, performers, and visionaries whose journeys began in our hometown, yet whose voices now echo from beyond its borders. From the streets and stages of Wrexham to national spotlight and global audiences, this podcast dives into the lives behind the talent, uncovering the position, persistence, and pivotal moments that shape their paths. Each episode brings you closer to the people redefining what it means to come from here, sharing honest conversations about creativity, community, and carving out a voice in an ever-changing world. Whether you're an aspiring creative, a proud local, or simply someone who loves a great story, Creative Wrexham is your front row seat to the journeys that inspire, challenge, and connect us all. This is where it starts. This is where it grows. This is Creative Wrexham. I'm your host Simon Jones, and joining me again today is my wonderful co-host Emily Freeman.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Hi.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Hi. In this episode, we're shining a light on two rising talents from the local area that I had the pleasure of meeting last year whilst working as a casting researcher for Teardrike here in Wrexham. Rhys Matthew and Niall Heaton, whose passion for acting has taken them from local beginnings on stage to an opportunity on national television. Both Reese and Nile have been friends since childhood and both share a passion for performing arts, acting and singing. More recently, both Reese and Nile appeared on the first episode of BBC One's Wild Reckoning, sharing the screen with the legendary adventurer Bear Grills, filmed here in North Wales, where they shared their own very personal story of a friendship that was lost after the passing of Nile's brother, and the steps they took to rebuild and reconnect once again. Their recent appearance on national television has been a milestone moment for them both, and one that reflects not only their dedication to their ongoing friendship, but also the growing presence of local talent in the wider creative industry. It's my pleasure to welcome both Reese and Nile. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having us. You're very welcome. Great to see you both. Thank you for coming in. For those listeners that are tuning in today, tell us a little bit more about you. We'll start with uh with Reese first of all.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Uh I'm an Otterstree boy uh down in Shropshire. Uh I trained in musical theatre in London at the London College of Music. Uh I did a couple of cruise ships after that, but my background's always been in sort of performing arts and uh you know acting, acting uh from a young from a young age, really, and uh got into a little bit of singing. Uh and this is where I met my like-minded chap here who was also into the old performing arts, and we sort of grew up together doing that, didn't we? That was us really. So, yeah, bubbly person, like to chat to a lot of people, so that's me all over. I'm uh I'm a bit of a networker, so I like to find out about people's lives, which is really interesting. Did you always have that kind of creative interest? I've always had a creative interest, yeah. I feel like uh you can grow up and sort of be interested in other things. I think my heart's always been with performing. Uh, years ago, when I was a stagecoach as a kid, I used to hide myself behind a pair of sunglasses because I was so afraid of what people thought. But putting the sunglasses on allowed me to be a performer, and it's a really silly, silly sort of answer to our industry now. But I feel like my heart has always been with it and it's grown from a young age. And I feel like the experiences I've gathered from the people I've met and the expectations are to such a high level nowadays, but you learn as you get older, and you certainly learn from inspiration of people that really sort of you know divulge information into you and say, This is what you need to do for this, this is where you need to go with that. They're all fantastic opportunities to to to create this industry that's so big, but it can be made bigger by meeting more people. So it's uh it's a really tough industry, but it's a really amazing industry too.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Fantastic. And Niall, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

Uh I'm an actor myself, and uh I'm training in Bristol Old Vic at the moment, uh, doing screen acting, and uh it's such a privilege to be there. It's a great school. Um yeah, I I don't know what else to say. Talk about you, because yeah, we're homeboys, we talk about yourself. Uh Oz Street boy like yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Um where did you kind of start then with your creativity?

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Um talk about you. I think for me it was kind of like Amdram, I would say. Um just kind of humble beginnings, just started with Amdram. Um, one of my teachers at school. I never really considered it before as a kind of career path going into acting, but um one day she kind of just said maybe there's something that you could do here, you know, maybe there's kind of a career path for you. Uh big up to Amanda Taylor. Um but no, yeah, I I just love what I do and uh I have fun meeting people and kind of seeing the camaraderie of people on set and that sort of thing. Um yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

So um you both mentioned that you uh did acting together and that you've met uh in your youth. Can you tell us a little bit more about when it was exactly that you met?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Oh go on. You probably remember it more. It's probably like over like it's over well over a decade now, isn't it? I knew Niles' brother. Um he was more sort of my sister's age, but we were quite a fair bit apart when we but we had like the same friendship group kind of growing up. We used to go to um like the park and stuff, didn't we? And we'd be like hanging out with people. Um, and then we kind of went to this local lads, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

And was that kind of community like everyone knows each other? Like there's other people that we know. I mean, uh Alex Roberts, for example.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, but he's doing bits in uh Liverpool. Liverpool, yeah. And it was a great opportunity for us to start uh sort of you know, Niall and me are sort of four or five years apart, aren't we? But we started in the same sort of aspect in this group where we started from being young, and then you sort of just were asked to come back and play little roles and little roles and little roles, and it was nice because that's how we sort of got to know each other, but then you'd spend a little bit of time outside uh of lads, wouldn't we? And we'd go to the park and chill, and families know each other and used to go on little walks and stuff. So it was we just sort of got to know each other. Do you go to the pub as well? Exactly. As we've gone on, we've gone to the 18 plus, I was saying Dave. That was that was almost a long time ago, wasn't it? And I've been right through this with Nal with his brother and stuff, so that it's brought us forever closer with the whole experience, isn't it? So yeah, it was a long time ago, and I feel like time's actually gone very quickly since then. It changed a lot. Being there, and obviously with the experience of everything that's gone on, being there and not being there and being back in touch is the best thing that could have ever happened for both of us because we realize the importance of having each other in life, and it's a great expectation for us to be able to go forward knowing that we're always going to have that from now on.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

So that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

It's it's uh brought us really close, isn't it? Especially also having the same interest. I think because we have a similar interest, we've been able to connect on so many different things from when we were kids, as in like you know, acting and like being in little roles and being influenced by performance, because I think it's a really, really you know, when you meet someone who's like-minded with you, you have so much more to talk about. You meet someone you've got nothing in common with, you're not gonna have the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

I think it's my it's my favourite part of the industry, just meeting uh different creatives from different kind of backgrounds, and you know, it's a great experience really for anyone.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

But if you ask me like what what year we met and what day, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Do you remember any productions that you've worked on together? Have you acted in things together?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Do you remember? Uh I don't really remember the names of any of them because we were probably mad. Yeah, my mum's got the programs for all these things in like her like little um were you in Far from Madden Crowd? Yeah, but I think I was, yeah, but I can't remember ever playing it. It was like somebody's son or like you do have those little roles when we were like kids where you could just fill in. I've done some Atfield stuff, I don't know about you. I'd not so much field, I don't think. I did that with the Atfield as well, where you just had those little more so walk-on roles that you'd be on and off, on and off, on and off.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Yeah, and then especially when you're younger, I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

You know, and gradually as we got older, you'd get given a couple of lines and it'd be like, Oh, this is getting really cool now. We're building on roles, and it's like I love it. So, yeah, they were good experiences when they put, God, it was so long ago.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

I I'd have to I'd have to whip out the programme so would you would you like to act in anything in the future together now that you're reconnected?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, yeah. I feel like uh wild reckoning was a challenge for me and Nal, and we talked about it, didn't we? Because it was a real life situation. We've probably been so used to in the industry performing and acting, you know, roles and stuff. And this was there was no acting, it was it was true life, it was real, yeah. It was a real life situation. So it was it's I I think it was it was challenging, wasn't it? Oh yeah. Because fitting into a role challenging into a role and playing a character, you have so much time to sort of background, like make this character who you want it to be.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

But this was I think with a with a when you're an actor, your your comfort is almost the script, isn't it? When you got no script, it's like, well, what do I do now?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

There there was a lot of sort of there wasn't a lot of thought process with what we were going through, was there? Because we knew what had happened, we knew where we were looking to get to. I think in acting, you're trying to tell you. I think that's where the kind of strength in it kind of lay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

I mean, we both we both knew what we wanted to get out of it, and the fact that we were both there in the first place, I think spoke volumes really.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

The best the best version to your answer is if we could do like something we do like skits, wouldn't we? Like sketchy and stuff like that. You know, like um horn and cordon years ago, like something like that would be really funny. I feel like we could have a bit of a laugh with that.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

I think we've um sort of mentioned a couple of times now uh the show that has reconnected you both, and that you've obviously had a a fallout of which to reconnect over. Um so let's just sort of bring it back a little bit for our listeners who may not be aware. Um the show that you guys took part in was Bear Grills, World Reckoning. Um, Simon obviously knows you both through that. Yeah. Do you want to talk us a little bit through the process?

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Yeah, so back in I think it was around about July, August of last year. So I was very fortunate to work as a casting researcher for Teardri based here in Wrexham. And our job there was to find people that could be on the show that had a specific uh ideally a falling out or a disagreement or some kind of falling out with a family member or a friend. Um, and we'd cast out to a lot of different agencies, a lot of different people, a lot of different social media platforms. And I think it was one of my colleagues who dealt with one of you directly, and I didn't deal with you um completely directly. Um, but I had seen your name, I'd seen your details through, and and it seemed like a really good um story of connection and reconnection to get back together. So um I was very fortunate to kind of know about you before I actually knew you personally. Um so within that process, I didn't see the the next steps of who contacted you from there. So tell us a little bit more about how you got involved with um with Tear Drive.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

Well, it was Reese who well, I I can say that Reese reached out to me to kind of uh get the ball rolling, but how did you I I'm not actually too sure, Mr.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I got it through a casting lady, Rihannan, I think her name was. Yeah, she's fantastic. She came forward to me and she said, like, have you got and it's a bit of a unique question, but have you got any sort of f issues with family friends? And I was thinking, I've had a bit of a tedious relationship with a friend, no offense. I say tedious, is it it's been difficult, in other words, it's been difficult over the years. Um, he wouldn't mind me saying that because he would have agreed at the time. You felt the same way. Um tedious, what uh and we discussed the situation and I gave it to her on the spot and said, This is how and what's happened, and I feel like there's something that could possibly be done about it. And she actually said to me, How about you reach out and ask him about it? Because we might be able to take this story forward and have an opportunity to do better your friendship. And I said, I'm absolutely leave it with me. And I actually sent Nal a message, and I really wasn't expecting him to come back so soon because it was a sensitive topic at the time, and Nal's been through something that's very, very, very personal that I'm never going to understand. But I would have liked to have hoped in the future that I would learn to understand and be there and help. And I feel like with good communication and professionalism in this sense, that we weren't being standoff with each other, we weren't being non-negotiable. We were both very like, yeah, let's give it a go, let's give it a shot. And it was a great opportunity for us both to sort of separately come together after a little bit of time apart. We did we talked, didn't we? But we hadn't seen each other as much over the number of years. Yeah, I think it was something that we hadn't like confronted as as such. We knew it was a problem, but we'd never like spoken about it properly, really. We hadn't discussed it, and I think the important thing was we knew we couldn't discuss it over a beer in a poll. We needed to actually sit down outside of the the sort of social world and say this is probably a bit more personal than what we think. Let's have a discussion about it together when we see each other. And the team fantastically brought us together. And the start was really intense, wasn't it? Because it we really hadn't seen each other for a little while.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Um dropped off right in the deep end where long had you not seen each other for until when you first saw each other again on Saturn?

SPEAKER_04 13:44

I'd say it was a number of a number of months, maybe probably a number of months at that point.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah. I can't really remember. Again, because it because we've done so much since that, you kind of forget about all the stuff before it, but it there was definitely a number of months, wasn't it? We'd been in contact via WhatsApp, but it was very like it would hit kind of hit like a brick wall. It would hit a miss. You'd just be like it was sometimes the messages weren't replied to on both ends because we were just doing other things, or we weren't as communicative. Is that the word communicative? It is now. It is now. We weren't communicating like we probably should have been. Yeah. Um, which is why the experience for them to say, right, we're gonna bring you together and we're actually gonna do this, was like, right, okay, well, this is it. Yeah, this is the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Um obviously Simon has been through this process with you uh both somewhat, and he's uh you know, you know each other. Um for our listeners and and myself who are less familiar, do you mind if you're comfortable talking through what it was that caused the the fraying in your friendship?

SPEAKER_04 14:48

Yeah, for me, um it was a couple of years ago my my brother passed away. Uh he took his own life, and um after that I kind of just became really, really I guess understandably so, uh withdrawn. And um I kind of found myself not opening up to people as much as I as I probably uh should have, or I didn't feel comfortable enough to to kind of open up. And um I think Reese, bless him, he tried to get through to me a couple of times and and it was probably my own fault, really. Uh I just wasn't ready to open up at that time. And then I felt about a year, well, a couple of years after, I started to gain a bit more confidence again with myself, and uh I think Reese was starting to get quite busy with his own life, and the roles were kind of almost reversed. Like it just wasn't we weren't able to work it out. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Did you have any support or anyone that you've got?

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Oh yeah, well, my main support was of course my family. They were you know, uh and we we all kind of supported one another. Um it just kind of worked like that, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, yeah. I think at the time, sorry to jump in. No, yeah. At the time, um Niall was going through something that I had no idea about it because I hadn't been through it, and it was summed up perfectly by a bear. He said, You are perhaps not going through this, so you wouldn't understand where Niall's end's coming from. And when you're trying to sort sometimes sort of like jump in and help people, it's not help that they need at that point, it's just time to like understand what's happened and it it time is a of the essence in life, you know. You've got to give stuff time before you can sort of oh well, I can do this or I can do that for you. And I think Nial probably didn't need that at the time, which is why perhaps I sort of came back off, and then as he said, roles reverse, he was then ready to sort of come forward, and then that was where the miscommunication was for both of us. Yeah, I think so. We kind of we kind of hit that brick wall where it was hard.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

But but with the opportunity that you kind of presented to me, I think it kind of created the perfect storm for the perfect one to to make up again because neither of us prior to that point had like properly sat down and spoke about it and been like, right, we have something that we need to confront and we need to sort out.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

For the sake of your friendship as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. A friendship that had been going on for a number of years, and we'd both done stuff on and off, haven't we? Like with Career Base, I'd been to drama school, you had been to your sort of drama school as well, haven't you? And I in separate places. We'd seen each other, but it just wasn't the same, there wasn't the same chemistry and there wasn't a click, and unusually you you think from child of friends there would always be a click. Um but there was something that just was missing, and when the casting came through, it was the perfect opportunity to take advantage of a situation that could be fixed. Not from me and Nal going again in a social environment and saying, Oh, let's just put our hands up and say that we were both wrong. It was a chance to get deep and emotional and understand each other on a really, really emotional level, taking time in the wilderness with the right people and the right support.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

But you know, I I think the thing is no one was right or wrong, really. I think you know it was a matter of circumstance, and I think with things like grief, upon reflection, there's not really a right way that you can deal with it, is there? There's never a right way.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Something goes wrong in life, do they? Nobody tells you how to um but I mean, one of the things that I found really remarkable about the show, if anybody hasn't seen um uh World Reckoning, they really should give it a watch on iPlayer. It's it's absolutely fantastic. But the the environment in which Bear and the team uh and Teardrigue set up this reunion uh in such a disarming way, giving you these tasks and giving you this experience in which to um I guess sort of almost distract while providing this experience to reconnect, which is so useful. The episode that really struck me was yours because one of the things that um, you know, people had all had these different fallouts for different reasons, but when it's something that's based around grief, um I think one of the things that nobody tells you about grief is that when you when you go through loss, it can really chip uh chip or dent your confidence in a way that you don't expect. You expect it to provide sadness, you expect it to provide lots of things, but it does something to you as an individual where it changes uh you know your confidence and your outlook on life. And so the environment in which he he was creating to you know unify people is also the same experience. It's great for confidence building and it was great for giving you personal tools. Did you find that the experience did more for you as an individual alongside just reuniting your relationship?

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Yeah, I think um it allowed me to reflect on the way that I had been to Reese, and in many ways it w was unfair, you know, in many ways, but um but I also felt as if I know Reese, I know Reese can allow for me to have that space from him for whatever time, and uh it's something that I you know was always gonna come back to, and I think uh it was always gonna work itself out.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

I think it was something we couldn't understand what the problem was then, but we do now. And it takes a long process sometimes to understand why those things are the way they are. I mean, we're still young then, aren't we?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Yeah, we're still figuring out the world, we're still kind of coming to grips with all these different things.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

And the biggest thing that we both learnt from this experience with mental health being such an important thing these days, is we need to open up as much as we can to not hide anything, to not keep anything inside. It's just speak it how it is, tell everyone how you're feeling. And I feel like because we leveled on that and we've been able to like share that openly with with a team of fantastic people.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

We or even just like sharing boundaries of people. If it's something you don't you're not prepared to talk about, I think uh, you know, feel as if you can well feel comfortable enough to be able to say, Well, I'm not ready to talk about it just yet, but it's not a personal matter of you know, uh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

I think one of the things that was that stood out to me when I was casting for this with the the script of what to expect and what Bear wanted for this show as well, as well as the production team, was it was quite a unique presence of bringing people to an environment that is completely stripped back. Yeah, it's raw, it's unfiltered. You know, I think Bear had said it before. If you're in like a mediation of speaking to somebody over a table, you're almost kind of arguing. Yeah, yeah. Whereas if you're walking together with someone, you're doing challenges together and you're doing adventures together, it gives you that opportunity to just strip it back and talk about what's in your feelings, what's in your heart, what's you know, in your mind. And it came across beautifully. I I can just imagine when I was pitching this to the contributors for the show like yourself, it was a remarkable kind of pitch that we put through. How did it come across to you, Nial, when you had that call or text to say, um By the way, do you want to be?

SPEAKER_04 21:49

I must I must have been feeling in like a particularly kind of ballsy mutt like mood.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Because Yeah, I wouldn't usually probably be up for something like that, you know, and be and being so open.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

With what's going on in my life on television. I'm quite a private uh as you can probably tell I'm quite a reserved person. Um so I guess for me it was quite shocking. I mean, for for myself, even that I even went up for it and and kind of said, Yeah, you know what, we'll give it a go.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

And to be fair, I did say to you, don't rush, I'll leave it with you. Yeah, yeah. And he came back literally like that. And I was thinking, oh my god, I was thinking a few days or something, or a few hours.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

I was shocked by uh Reese as well, because I I would have thought um it's one of those situations where you're probably just gonna slowly drift apart and you know, but with hindsight, as I say, I think it was always gonna sort itself out one way or another. So I know it was the perfect way too. And it was the perfect way to, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

I know that there was a lot of response that we had when we were pitching this to a lot of contributors um involved in the show that some didn't get through, and and the the conversations we had about the whole mediation side of it was brilliant. But then when we mentioned it was gonna be in the middle of North Wales in the woods, it was gonna be stripped back completely. A lot of people didn't want to be on national television talking about their personal stories, personal dramas, personal you know, falling out. Um, so I can imagine for yourself it must have been quite a catapult to where it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

You know, you you could probably tell it's still a weird thing for me to talk about, but I think it's an important thing to raise awareness for. So, you know, I feel like it's almost my duty to kind of raise awareness for men's mental health, and you know, kind of I mean, the thing is with Wild Reckoning, our episode it could have happened to so many different men across the country. You know, I know of people where they've drifted apart from friends and they kind of regret that, you know, not reaching out and and kind of uh reconciling. Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Have you seen uh Cameron who was on the show as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a great laugh. Cameron's great, so we love him. He's a great contributor for the show.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

We loved chatting to him, didn't we? He's uh he's a really guy.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

He's taken his experience and set up a men's mental health walking. Yeah, we've seen Brothers on the Path. Yeah. While on cam, if you're listening, that's really proud of you. That's amazing. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Um, so talk us through what it was like to step physically onto the set of Wild Reckoning. The three of you have all been there. The three of you could describe it to me, but I obviously uh didn't get to experience it. So, what what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 24:19

I think in the moment you don't actually realize you're there. You're just like, oh, here we go. And sometimes when you I mean we traveled separately, didn't we? And then came together. And then eventually, as time went on, things were obviously being sorted out and solved and stuff like that. But when we first got there, I think we probably my perspective might be different to ours, but I was thinking, right, we actually have got to do this now. When I was driving up thinking, Oh, this is beautiful snow down here national park. I was like, why am I coming here? But it's for a reason. I've got to be doing this for a reason. And then when you get there, you think, Wow, look at all these people! Like, what a well-put-together team to support you and look out for you and say, if there's anything you need, we're here to talk about it. This is the whole idea, and I think the comfort was there straight away, wasn't it? From the moment we probably both got there, we can both agree the comfort was there. Everyone made us feel very sort of settled straight away. The situation wasn't massively settled like immediately, because we obviously had a little bit of stuff that we have to sort out, but the nature I think that we were placed in couldn't have been any better than what it was in terms of like in the wilderness, which was probably a little bit of a challenge for me because you know how I feel about that. My old mate now. But yeah, that I mean your perspective might be different, but uh no, I I felt when I first got there, there was obviously that bit of like awkward.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Yeah, do you do you agree with that? Yeah, there was a bit of an awkward from each other, it was like you were in the same kind of uh presence as each other, yeah. It was in the forest, so we were kind of in the same presence as each other, but we're kind of just like making like bits of eye contact with each other and then looking away and like it's like a trick, it was like a Netflix drama.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

It was like it did come across as quite side-eye, like it's quite awkward at first. I was just gonna ask how it felt for that first meeting.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

Yeah, and you could probably I mean I I I remember watching it back. I was thinking, oh my god, like you can hear it in my voice.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Like it sounded a bit like, oh my god, like but it would have been like that because if it wasn't, then we would you know we were there for the wrong reasons. It was always gonna be a difficult situation. The first meet is obviously always really hard because you haven't seen this person, you've communicated with them over a phone, which doesn't answer many questions. You kind of seeing someone in real life and sitting with them being with them here today is a lot different to social media and how we communicate via the modern world, which is you know, we're very lucky to do that. We've been in we've been in touch a lot since since the programme.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

So, like you know, now you can see us just joking about it and it's whatever. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Obviously, we've spoken a little bit about how you guys both have a background in performing arts, it's what you are currently doing. Um, but I guess it must be a very different experience stepping onto the set of world reckoning because first off, you're talking about non-scripted format over scripted format, and you're talking about not being in mask in a character, you're just being yourself. As we've spoken about exposing really personal things. What was the difference having experience in both like to go out of your comfort zone in non-scripted and personal?

SPEAKER_04 27:22

I think for me, uh the key thing was with wild reckoning, it was constant and consistent as well. Um, I mean, I've been on many short film sets, and there's lots of breaks, lots of tea breaks, very, very relaxed. And um Wild Reckoning was anything but that, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah, well, likewise, in answer to Noel's question, I've done a little bit of like essay work on like big sets or like some really big skits and worked with some amazing people. David Mitchell, David Mitchell and Webb, yeah, they were fantastic. Done a little short with them. But the experience in real life, when you actually get there and you realise, okay, this is all this isn't set up, this is all real life now. It's a little bit sort of like this is kind of not what I'm used to, but I'm going to have to get used to it now, quite quickly, because everything here is not formatted in like right, we're gonna do this, and this is what you have to do. It's like when you read a script, there's the character, this is what the character says, this is how the characters feel. There is no character, it's me, it's Reese. It's Reese and it's Niall and two lads from Shropshire, like 20 minutes down the road. It's not like John and Bob from York Yorkshire or something like that. It's us, and I feel like that was probably hard for both of us, wasn't it? Because that was probably hard for both of us, wasn't it? Because we're stepping out of our comfort zone of being able to get into a character quite quickly, or at least adapting ways to find character into our real selves. So I feel I feel like it was a challenge, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Yeah, certainly, certainly. I mean, even like uh compared to being on stage, I feel like as an actor, you could probably relate to this. It's almost a comfort being on stage or on screen as a as a character, it's almost like a mask that you wear. And uh wild reckoning, as I say, was you know anything but that really.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

I I know the production team, especially the camera department, were using a lot of long lenses because they didn't want to get too kind of close to you to make you feel like there was a team of camera people there, so they know they were using a lot of long lenses to kind of capture the the essence of what you were trying to talk about without having that kind of camera being with you as well. And the production team was was huge. I know when I came on set, there was like wellness advisors there, yeah. They were they were all grand to work with, yeah. And it's a huge team involved to to produce that. And I remember when I first got there and I was waiting, and and I think somebody had said, Oh, we're just waiting for Bear to come over. And I was thinking, oh, he's just gonna turn up in a car, or he's done no. You could see him for about 40 minutes coming down to the beach.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

That was like the island little trip, all playoff on these. And then the boat has wheels runs down to the beach. Amazing. It was it was cinematic, very, very like a wild exp a wild experience, like in the nature of the reckoning, yeah. Yeah, I think I'd like to share one thing that we did when we left uh the final day. Yeah, we actually drove home in my dad's convertible zero for BMW, which was very lucky because it was a nice part. Sort of like cheers done. Um, it was a moment in the summer where the weather we we got absolutely so lucky with weather, it was amazing. I know some of the poor people had like rainy nights and windy nights. We had an amazing couple of days of weather. And we drove back along the front, sort of you know, the A55 back down through North Wales. Beautiful. It was sunny, the roof was off the car, and we just sat in silence for half an hour because I think we were so buzzed on buzzed on adrenaline, but so exhausted. It was like we had no words, but we just smiled at each other and like we were just laughing the whole way down, just laughing, go, I can't believe we've just done that. Yeah, we literally stood on top of a mountain with bear grills. Yeah, that's absolutely wild. But it was it was a special moment, wasn't it? Because it was it was the realism of that's actually happened now, and we've actually pathartic.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Yeah. One thing I've heard from a lot of the contributors that were in the show is that they said that Bear genuinely cared about everyone that was in the show. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

Yeah, he gave us a hug on camera, but then he gave us one off camera, didn't he? Inch as well, you know. He did very uh passionate about what he's doing.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Very gentle man, very, very patient with the way that he works with you and shares that moment with you where he's like, no one is to feel under any pressure here. This is an opportunity to fix a problem within the wilderness, the nature around you, and saying, right, let's look at things from a different point of view. We're not sitting down in a counselling session or what it's not Jeremy Kyle, it's uh we're sitting at a beach, taking the taking the view, taking the nature.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

You're gonna camp under some canoes, like it it was very out of our comfort zone, but yeah, but it's in a perfect way, it struck it struck a nice balance between like being out of your comfort zone, but also like you're obviously not completely left alone, as you say. You've got wellness advisors and and and all that jazz, so it felt like it was a perfect balance, really.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah, I think that's a good um opportunity to ask about some of the rest of the production team that you had on board. So, as well as the wellness advisors, you also had uh Naomi Oldsworth was your survival expert. She's great. A little bit about some of the challenges that were setting up. Incredibly part in Naomi.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

First of all, my my heart, and I'm sure Nars goes out to everyone on the team because they were all amazing. Everyone individually was just so warming. I've never felt more secure with a group of people, including yourself. Thank you. Because Simon was great, he was there anytime you wanted to talk, which was really we were lucky to have that. There was a lot of people there, there was a lot of people on set all the time. We were sort of like we need you here and we need you there, and sometimes you didn't get a chance to talk to everybody, but it's a great opportunity that we did with people like Naomi because we had a little bit of time to chat with her, and they were moments where we were thinking, This is someone in a completely different industry here who's you know, a she knows us survivalist, she knows her stuff. Yeah, and and she was saying, you know, this is this is gonna be hard, this is gonna be a challenge, so you have got to use your initiative and work together. And these were things that really helped us go forward, weren't they? Because we we kind of had to sort of use the initiative of helping each other at the same time as dealing with our problem, yeah. And sometimes we didn't always have time to think, oh god, this is gonna be really difficult. We just we just had to do it, we just had to get on with it. And she was so funny, wasn't she? Because she was like, Yeah, you just need to do that. Do that and do what?

SPEAKER_04 33:51

She'd come and do it, she makes it look easy, and we're like, oh my god, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

So for the viewers at home that haven't seen an episode, when we're referring to these challenges that uh Naomi would have uh helped set up, what were you asked specifically to do on the show for those who haven't seen an episode?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Well, the first one was the the canoes, wasn't it? We had to jump into canoes and find something which was ended up being a tarpaulin, wasn't it? Yeah, for setting up camp.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

I was kind of bricking it to be fair, because I I had never ever done canoeing before and that was like.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I thought the brick out of the chick. I was bricking it. I pulled a brick out of the water. I said, I think this might be like, is it? It's a brick. There's a tarpaulin attached to a brick, so that was quite funny. That was that was probably more easy for me because I've canoed before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

I'd been once I you know got in, I think it was more like the the whole like jumping into the water with the canoe. Like that's that was like because I'm quite tall and I've not got the best balance. So I was like, oh my god, if I fall in now, it's gonna be on live TV on national TV.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Also, it uh it was pretty poor for me because I told him to get in the canoe the wrong way. So basically, he was like in the canoe backwards, and I was like, oh, it'll work, it's fine. Just and that that involved a lot of um teamwork because we had to use radios and it was like we need to find something for camp. That could have been anything, couldn't it? That could have been a top ball, and that could have been a bottle of water, that could have been anything, couldn't it? So we really had to just guess at the time, like we're looking for absolutely anything. Yeah, we had no idea, and it was quite like swampy as well.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

Like you couldn't the visibility wasn't great in the water, it was thinking, oh my god, are we ever gonna find this?

SPEAKER_03 35:34

It was, yeah. What would you say was the the point of doing that that challenge for yourselves?

SPEAKER_04 35:40

Communication, wasn't it? Communication, yeah. That would that would have been communication. I mean, uh I mean all of them are kind of centred around communication in in some capacity, um which is quite an interesting concept when you've had that break in communication for so long.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Yeah, yeah, that was an initial challenge then to get you communicating more in a challenge for a reward, and if you didn't find what you needed to do, then you were gonna have a lack of supplies for that evening.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

But I I I wonder if it is almost because each of the um tasks were kind of catered towards what each other didn't want to do, almost like I I'd never done canoeing before, which they I think they must have known. Well, they must have known because I think you told them that you had done canoeing in an experience. I guess the producers were probably thinking, well, Nil's not put down any experience for canoeing, so we'll chuck him in at the detail.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

And therefore you're relying on one of the other things. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

So it's almost like you know, you're looking for for leadership from each other in in in some ways and trust, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Was there any challenge that went the other way?

SPEAKER_04 36:45

Yes, you'll have to tell him about the arguably it's harder. Yours is harder for you, I would say, because you actually he put, I remember, I'm not sure if I could say this. He put on his form that he had a fear of height. And what did they do for the final task?

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah, let's make you do a cliff forward.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Yeah, half sail forward down a cliff, yeah, where you can see the drop, and it's uh it's that whole mental I mean that was a mental obstacle.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

And look, I would say it today, and I would I've I've told everyone the same thing who have watched our episode, there is no conceivable way that I'd have done it with anybody else because it was the confidence and support from Niall that helped me do it. He said, Look, we're not going down one by one. If we'd have gone down one by one, that would have been hard for me because it's like if Niall has shot ahead and gone, Whey, it's really fun, I still have a fear of heights. But walking down a a cliff with somebody facing forwards when you're getting supported going down, the support not only comes from the fantastic team, but verbally from your best friend stood next to you. That's the motivation that got me down the side of a rock.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

I think I would have been more hesitant to do it if you weren't there. Because I I don't know, it almost inspired me to take the fur because I know I know that you have a fear of these things, and it's like I want to support you because it goes both ways, and I know that once you're there with me, you know, you've got that mutual support.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

And I'm so glad it was an episode on a cliff and not a helicopter jump. Yeah, that would have been a nightmare, and I'd probably put on the tears back then. We we didn't know what to expect from it. I think when we spent the first night together, we were both asking each other questions like what are they gonna make us do? And we didn't have the answers.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

So Did you just turn up then at a location and they went, Oh, by the way, you're just gonna do this?

SPEAKER_04 38:31

In fact, when we turned up uh at the location, we couldn't actually see the top of the cliff, so it was almost like they were keeping it secret what we were gonna be doing. And I was thinking, Are we gonna be able sailing?

SPEAKER_01 38:43

I must admit, when we walked through the forest for the first one, that wasn't a problem because we walked out the side into like this lovely greengrass field and it was just two canoes, and I was like, Oh, I love that. I was probably thinking, Oh my god, if I fail my first attempt at canoeing on live uh not I keep saying live TV. You were probably panicked a bit, weren't you? Because you're not that's probably we're we're polar opposite, that's out of his comfort zone, but it's in my comfort zone, vice versa, to the ab sale, which he was.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

I mean, even now I probably wouldn't feel comfortable like pushing it in and then getting in because I I know that I've got bad balance, so it's like if we go over.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

You were there like wobbling and going, Oh my god, I'm gonna fall in. I was like, just stay still.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

I know a lot of people say they use a lot of imposter syndrome as actors. Yeah. Do you feel like a lot of that came out in you? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

Because I think when you're an actor, you're trying to keep like your poker face, but you're also like you're also kind of internally like, What am I doing? What am I doing?

SPEAKER_01 39:38

I have to do what I have.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

You you gave some some points when we were setting up camp. You were like, Yeah, I'm just gonna do this, just gonna do this, and like we both had no idea what we were doing.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

No, I feel like, but we we didn't have time to think like, oh god, what are we gonna do about that? We just have to do it, yeah, and had to make the best version of it there and then to set up camp to stay in the wilderness for a night.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

As like an actual uh task, that was probably the most tedious because you're like, I have no idea what I'm doing here. Like, I'm completely like I've seen people absail before, I've seen people canoe before. I've never seen anyone make a shelter out of two canoes and then like tie it down and like.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

And literally, the biggest joke was I'd say to him, like, I've been to Camp America with kids, like I've done the canoeing, I've kayaks, I've literally set up tents with them. I have no clue what I'm doing. This is like three, four years on. I'm like, I still don't know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

I remember when Naomi explained it to us, and we both just kind of had a moment where we looked at each other and we were like, Oh, yeah, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 40:35

What is going on here? Well, outside of all of the challenges um and the tasks that you were asked to do, one of the other parts of it, which we've already spoken about, was uh the open communication with each other and fixing this relationship. One of the production team that you worked with was Mo Jana, who was your uh mediator. Uh sort of well-being um, I guess well-being officer. Mediator. Um, what do you think you learnt from him on the show that you've not just in experienced on the show but you've taken forward in your relationship in the show?

SPEAKER_04 41:09

I mean, uh there's he kind of helped us realise that there's two sides to every story, and um to kind of trust in that and even just having patience when listening to someone and kind of just being like, you know what, fair enough. I t I take that on the on the chin.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

And um what a very, very warm personality, very, very patient, very gentle nature, and uh obviously being in a situation like the wilderness is probably a little bit well, we'd have never have known what it was like unless we'd have done it. Yeah, and I think Mo reassured us both that there's no right or wrong answer here, we're just trying to find a better solution for you guys. And it was an opportunity where his uh skill set of what he was giving us to think about were actually opening up so many doors in probably both our heads separately that oh well we could look at it like this because right now you're saying this and you're saying this, but let's take a step out of that mindset for two minutes and look at it at a different angle. And I think he understood my end, like my end, he understood your end, and that's why we the the best part was writing. Do you remember those wooden pencils? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He gave us this wooden pencil, very, very like symbolic to the nature and gave us a piece of paper, and we wrote down, didn't we? It was around the fire, we wrote down our thoughts about why we felt a certain way, and that was really sort of eye-opening for both of us, I think, because I really wasn't aware how Niall felt, and I don't think he was me. I think there was things that had to be said there and then, but the way that we had that situation with Mo, when we threw it in the fire at the end, am I right in saying that it was like so much weight had been lifted?

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Yeah, once I think beforehand I was a little bit nervous like doing it, but once once you chucked it in the fire and once you know you've said you've kind of aired out your grievances, because part of that that process was you writing down those those comments, but then reading it to each other, yeah, and having that ability to be able to vocalise that feeling and then destroy it, get rid of it. You know, what was said is said, you've taken it on board, and it was a really, really beautiful part of the process where doing the challenges is great and it builds that character and builds that connection back again. But that part where you strip back out of campfire, there's nothing else to do but talk, really, and have that that that connection is is beautifully done.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

But an amazing person though.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Oh, yeah, really and he brought great energy to the to the set and we had a laugh with him. We had a laugh with him.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

He was just like morning lads. Morning motion.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

Especially as we kind of eased up. We we had more of a laugh at the end towards the end, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Very, very good person for advice and someone who you could talk to tomorrow if you needed to ask about anything. He's gonna go far. Yeah, he already is so far. He's just amazing, like an inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

What was it like camping out under the Under the stars in the Welsh countryside. I did not get the best night's sleep. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Well, well then. I think you did. You were snoring, uh get lost. I um I must admit, um it was a very uncomfortable sleep. I reckon we were both laying next to each other and it was a very, very sort of awkward night sleep, only because we were lying on one like little mat, foamy mat. My back was a bit ruined by the end of it, but I mean beautiful skies though.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

And it was, you know, the weather was calm.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Um it's a weird thing to talk about because I bet like no one would believe me if I say it. I only only me and Niall saw this, and whether or not anyone wants to ever believe it. They can say it's it's cheesy, it's me lying or whatever, but uh you've got to tell him what we're talking about first because that was relevant. I can't remember how we're talking about your brother.

SPEAKER_04 44:48

I know what you're talking about my brother, but I can't remember what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

We were talking about your brother and saying, like, wow, if he was watching this now, this would be like a such a sort of prank moment.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

As soon as you mentioned his name. It sounds so ridiculous. You you know, believe me or or or don't, but um a shooting star went through the the sky.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

That's not ridiculous at all.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

And whether or not people ever want to and we told Bear that, and it was never I don't think yeah, that's why we're kind of mentioning it. I think it was probably he probably thought it was more personal to us, and it was very unique we were talking about.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Well, they had a time lapse of the sky, so I wonder if that picked it up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Do you if you're comfortable? Sorry, do you mind um what was your brother's name? Liam. Liam. Liam. So it was when you were talking about Liam.

SPEAKER_04 45:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as soon as you mentioned his name, a shooting star went past.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I was like, do you just see that?

SPEAKER_01 45:37

And bearing in mind, we were both lying up talking like we weren't looking at each other like this. That's like romantic. We're both just looking up, going, yeah, yeah, yeah. And as that conversation happened, I can see myself like doing it now. We were just looking up, wouldn't we?

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Just sort of probably doing a bit of what we used to do when we were kids, talking rubbish. And then we get onto something like a bit more serious, like brother, and we saying, like, oh, you know, you your mum and dad will be really proud of you for doing this. Because a really big thing to do in life is to step up to the mark and go, right, I'm gonna sort this for the love of everyone around me, for myself, for my friend. And that was very unique, I must admit, it was a very unique situation. And yes, you know what, it is a bit cheese, but that meant something to Nan, it meant something to me, and that's the important thing you've got to take away from stuff like this. Very right, it's a memory for both of us. It might not be relevant to anybody else, but it was there and then, like quite heartwarming. And the rest of the night's sleep, my god, it wasn't a lot, was it? But it wasn't a lot. Because we weren't, we weren't given, we weren't allowed watches, we weren't allowed any sort of thing to tell you the time. You had no choice but to kind of look at the stars, which you know, not too bad to be fair. Just wake up and be like, what time do you reckon it is? No, 4.28. Yeah, we were getting we were getting round to be like, what time do you reckon it is? And then they'd said to us, you need to sort of get a fire going in the morning. And I was like, What time do you reckon it is? We better go up and do a fire. I reckon it might have been 5am.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

Just to allow ourselves to do it, because we didn't trust ourselves setting up the fire, taking it to the point where you were you were given rations as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

That's right, yeah, to eat too. It wasn't like a luxury meal though, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 47:10

I tell you what though, not not bad scram. Not bad scram.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

I think we both were alright with that with me.

SPEAKER_04 47:15

What was it? We had uh sausage and beans for breakfast, but I I think we sausage complicated.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

And then chili con carni to one for breakfast each, then one for dinner for each.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

I had beans and sausage for tea, and you had chili con carne, and then the following day I had chili con corni for breakfast, and then he had sausage and beans.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

I know which way round I prefer it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

I mean, if thanks to any bear cheers later, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Um, so what has the response been like since the show aired for you both?

SPEAKER_04 47:45

Locally, I mean, I I'm sure you'd say the same. There's been a lot of positive feedback. I mean, I've had um I've had men who are very like very stoical, who've opened up to me and have been you know, have told me about confided in me about their own personal um life and uh their own battles. And uh it's very heartwarming to feel as those, you know, there's men who have seen it and and have thought, I can relate to that. I've been through that, and even just to give them an inkling of encouragement, I think, uh is any kind of positive thing to me.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah, I had I was travelling up north and I was on a train and I had a lad I was in school with who I hadn't spoken to in a number of years, and it was very unique because about a few weeks later I saw him in town having a beer, and I was like, we've just spoke on Facebook, and he was like, I just wanted to share with you that I watched your show and he's uh army based. He's sort of either ex-army or he's in the army.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

It's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

I had a lad who's the set same scenario. And he said, you know, Brad wouldn't mind me saying, he said, like, I I thought it was really warm, and sometimes it's it's really important that anyone opens up, but men with the mental health thing is a big, big thing in the world right now. It's really important. It's it's made me realise that I I can open up and and talk, and my friends can too. And it it was something quite close to his heart, and I was like, Wow, that's that's that's the perfect reply. Yeah, and generally, as you say, like locally, we live in a very sort of small time where a lot of people will know each other, and you do often like I've been in perhaps the pub with dad and my mum and my mates. People tend to like and they will always come over to you and go, Oh my god, we love your show. And it's so nice because that's warming for me now because it's like an opportunity where we shared a story, but we've also shared that story with our public, the general public of who watch BBC and who like bear grills and survival and something a little bit different of survival. Everyone says, What's bear grills like? Like and that's the first question they've asked us, probably so many times. And you know my response is most gentleman ever, he's so lovely.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

And for them to ask, and then they say, Where how did it come about? And you just share that little bit about it with with those people who who who who ask. And the feedback's been amazing. There's not been one bad thing, is there? There really hasn't. It's been a really lovely response, and that's sort of as we've as we've come out of the process of it, what we want. Yeah, because it's it's a very, very sad story that you know we've been involved with, and it's taken a term where we can both say we started out in a bit of a difficult place, but we've come to an even better ending. Remembering this situation is really important in life, and we need to be able to open up to each other, we need to be able to be there for each other because we have one life and we can't waste any valuable time.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

Well, that's the thing. I I also think uh arguably for me, one of the greatest things about it has been seeing the feedback and how it's affected people because initially, obviously, we did it for us, but now I feel as if there's a a larger kind of story to be told within that because there's so much truth, uh, not just for me and you, but as I say, for many other men throughout the country.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

And I think it gives people the opportunity to say, Oh, they're doing it, and I I just need to make that first step. I need to just open up a bit more and tell somebody maybe how I'm feeling.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

Because half the time these issues aren't black and white issues, you know. Uh that there's two sides to every story.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

So and yeah, the one thing we'd both encourage after the experience is to anyone who ever wants to talk about anything will always be here. Yeah, whoever it is, whoever it is, whether it's people we know or not, it'll always be an opportunity for us to share our experience and say, if you need to talk, I'll listen all day long to help.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

And I think obviously we can see by the fact that you guys are here and the conversation that we've had that it's it's been a beautiful mender of your friendship. Um, with res uh regard to your uh your brother, Liam. Um, do you think that that experience has changed your relationship with yourself and how the space that you were in after losing him?

SPEAKER_04 51:58

That's a good question, that I haven't really reflected upon that, but yeah, I I'd probably say so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

And do you do you think that might be one of the another one of the beautiful things about people watching the episode is the focus on male mental health and kindling those relationships, but also about maybe getting yourself in the past.

SPEAKER_04 52:14

Well, this is I think it's it's not just for uh people I mean uh people who are struggling with mental health, but it's also people who are going through bereavement, I think. Yeah, uh like I had a lad who who said that he lost his dad to suicide, and he privately came to me and said, and I had no idea about this, and this is someone who I used to be very close to in school, and uh he just shot me a quiet message and he said uh you know, thanks. And wow, I didn't know. Very powerful, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

That's the power of of what you did collectively, yeah. And leaving that show with a huge result, you know, of bringing you both back together as well. The best result. What's been the um the kind of follow-up support being like since you left the show?

SPEAKER_04 52:55

Um brilliant, just been brilliant, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they they keep you know shooting us emails and saying, Yeah, oh my god, if you ever want to talk about anything. If you ever want to talk, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I I have to actually reply to one of them.

SPEAKER_04 53:07

I feel I feel like I'm so busy at the minute, I've I've not really had the chance to get back to that.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

I feel like the duty of care that they gave us, yeah, we owe it back to them to say, yes, I'd love to tell you about it. Just to let everyone know, whether you listen to this, you watch the episode again, just to reignite that we have got to a place where we're better than we've ever been. Yeah, and these opportunities are always nice to share with people because it will put a smile on their face at the end of the day. And that's the most important thing that we get up, we smile and we enjoy our day. Yeah, and there's always going to be things in life, there's always gonna be waves that we can't get over, but there is always a way through something, whether it's through talking or whether it's through help or just communication is the biggest thing we've learned from, isn't it? With with this.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

Do you find you communicate more together now? Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

Yeah, and I I also think uh even when we're not communicating, it's more like laid back because we know that we've got stuff going on.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

It's you know, there's less pressure for us to be like. I was actually meant to come and see you, wasn't I, in March, and I just said I'm so busy.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

But I I said to him alternatively, I've been so busy with my course. Um it's kind of been like a baptism by fire. It's probably a good thing that you didn't come down in March.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

But um But we're we're planning, we're planning something in Bristol, army. We're gonna do like a weekend uh at some point, but we both know where our sort of ideas of career want to go, and because we have very similar interests, it's a really good opportunity for us to share things with each other. I mean, we drove up here today and he was telling me about like oh my year at whatever and stuff like that. And I'm like brilliant. And then I shared something very small with him about like something I'm doing coming up, and he's laughing, going, That's just fantastic. No, just like just a real laugh because it's like it's someone who's got quite a good reputation, but it's it it's all through a networking world, the industry.

SPEAKER_04 54:50

You've got to it's actually quite a small industry, like you'll bump in. I've I've bumped into people in Cardiff who know people from uh you know up this way, you know. It's it's such a small in especially in Wales, but um even throughout the UK, there's people who know each other, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

I think the one thing that we're very alike on is the world of performance is the important thing that we like to be in there and be involved with it. I don't think for me personally, like Niall might be different. I'm not interested in fame and and being mega rich. It that doesn't interest me. I like I like the industry for the arts and like the opportunity to perform or be involved in a project. It's just good fun, it's just brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 55:31

I've realised this from being on uh different film sets. I just love the camaraderie between uh film crew and cast.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

I just love the whole atmosphere of it, you know. There's nothing like it. Finding those opportunities to talk about something with somebody who has the same interest as you is actually more of a green tick in a day than anything for me.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

Well, even like kind of seeing like a director's vision and then like trying your best to kind of fulfil that and get that across. I love that. Like recently I was in a a short film about um Welsh miners and how women helped out in the community. I had so much fun, I had so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

I mean, another you know, we can we can absolutely throw this in here for you, Simon, because your creative Rex's fantastic being able to the networking events so far have been brilliant. You meet creatives, you meet directors, you meet people who do a little bit of scripted work, non-scripted work, it's fantastic opportunity, really. Well, yeah, as a as a credit to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Fantastic. You're helping create a kind of culture for creatives to thrive in, and I think that that's that's something really precious.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

That comes from obviously working with Tear Drag as a casting researcher and working in in other departments as well, and finding that no matter what department you're in, from a runner all the way through to producer and director, yeah, everyone has the same ability and everyone has the same right to be there, yeah, and focusing on bringing those people together because everyone champions each other's success and helps them through into that industry. Um, from being on Wild Reckon, you you've saw every part of that process from turning up on set to finding you know the casting producers there to meet you and go through that to the mediation to actually being filmed and then the support afterwards. It's one of the best kind of experiences I've done. It's a great feeling, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it is a fantastic feeling. But Creative Wrexham was obviously there, and I know we've we've been to a few events since World Reckoning, and it's about bringing those collectives together, and and Emily's been with us as well and those processes. It's having that connection and finding that love of uh the industry that we all do love.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Yeah, it's the best part about meeting someone who is in that same thing is you can have a conversation that will never end because you talk about the industry all night. And actually, that that is the best part of the night because you, as much as you've sort of travelled to get there or whatever, you you just sit with a group of people in a room and you go, right, let's talk industry. Yeah, creatives, directors, writers, people in radio. You've got a brilliant setup where you are here. Like, there's so many people from all over the place, and it's fantastic. Well, sorry, what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_04 57:52

I was gonna say, um, I'm sure I can speak for you when I say that it's also great for I mean, we're two Oswald Street lads, like there is absolutely nothing in Oswald Street, so it's great to have like that kind of somewhere further a distance. It is it's great to see uh Wrexham kind of coming into its own as like a creative hub, and uh as I say, you know, being from somewhere so rural, it used to be quite I don't know, discouraging when you you know that there's not much around where we live, but no, I think it's nice to see that Wrexham's kind of coming into its own.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

Yeah, it does, it it's feeding into that local community more and more. So when we've got the eyes are on Wrexham fully because of the the football, because of the investment.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

But it gives us uh reassurance as well. Um I mean we're from the outskirts really, but I mean it's just nice to have that kind of you know what, Wrexham's being recognised for its own creative talents, and you know, there's a lot there.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

There's so much there. You know, I'm gonna start sounding like a you know new age hippie, but like that. The um, you know, this sort of Julia Cameron more concept of like creativity isn't just a talent some people have, it's an inherent part of all human beings is to create it's just some people tap into it more than others. Wrexham will be the same as well, we have obviously the spotlight on it, but Oswestry will be the same thing. There's there's gonna be a this wealth and a body. I was to say there's a lot of talented people in Oswestry, but yeah, as you say, it's not being tapped into. But on a term of like where you are now, you've obviously you've got all of this exposure that's happened off the back end of the show. Talk a little bit more about what's next for you both in in terms of your personal lives and your careers.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

You go first. I'm finding my way through the industry where the more opportunities I get to go, I do a lot of essay work because I feel like it's a great opportunity to get to sets and meet people, meet for those who don't know what is essay.

unknown 59:41

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Uh essay is a supporting artist role. So people who are in like mainstream series or films, you'll always have background extras who are like involved in maybe a cafe scene or uh, I don't know, like in a pub or something. I've just done something recently where I was literally in a film for 0.8 seconds, but I was drinking a lag. Like it's and you actually get credit for stuff, which is really nice. I think I'm making the best of these because they're great opportunities. Um, it's not all about the pay, they pay you fantastically, depending on how long you're there, but it's the experience of being on set, getting to know runners, getting to know ADs, first AD, second AD, third AD, the director. You have an opportunity to like sit with people on that break and just talk about who you are and share that 30 seconds with them, and then you say, What about you? And then you've learned a little bit about each other. I would I mean, my dream is to be in like Netflix stuff, and you know, we've we've done non-scripted, and I feel like that's an experience overall. Scripted stuff, something that I suppose we're both used to, isn't it? Because it's acting, we've grown up as actors. And I mean, my my dream as a kid, I'd I'd wanted to be James Bond. I'd it'll never happen. But never say never again. Never say never again.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

Daniel Craig, he's got connections towards the studio, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

Yeah, Daniel Craig's a big sort of auditory connection. But the world is very unpredictable, and unless you make trips to these places to find those opportunities, you're never gonna know what you could have had until you've done it. And I feel like when my friends sit in the pub with me, or we we go have coffee, they're like, you know, you get the the old the old question from perhaps the generations a little bit older than myself, like, oh, what are you gonna do if that all goes wrong? Oh, unfortunately, we were discussing that on the way up here. Like, for me, my industry is gonna be my heart's gonna be set on the same industry since when I was a kid. I'm gonna push my boat out until I absolutely have no reason to not. And I think the opportunity, people to be able to share two seconds to meet somebody and just share something about yourself can either create a unique circumstance or can create an opportunity where I don't want to be liked, I just want to share something that with someone else would appreciate and say, Oh my god, yeah, I love that. And then you bounce off someone and you think, Oh, I'd love to work with you if you ever got any opportunities one day, I'd love to do it. So until those opportunities are there and you take hold of them, you have to start in small ponds to get into the ocean. Really do, and something you said before. It's it's it's an industry that's massive, and we're in the uh element right now of like finding work and being offered work and being found opportunities for work, and this leads on to you nicely because you're doing your sort of MA is a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:25

I think uh just building momentum and and making I mean, to be fair to Bristol Olvec, uh it's been a real privilege to go there. There's been some big, big names who've gone there. I mean, Daniel Day Lewis, Patrick Stewart, uh Gene Wilder, you know, all these big names. But um I'm surrounded by a lot of other talented people like me, you know, like me and Reese uh creatively, and um it's just forming contacts through that. And there's so many different avenues that you can go down, as you say. It's just keeping him keeping and keeping that momentum going. I mean, I've been in a couple short films in the last couple months, and it's just trying to keep that momentum going where you're constantly doing stuff, constantly seeing stuff. I've had such a blast going to the cinema recently with some of my mates from my course, yeah. And um, yeah, I just love what I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

Yeah. And then the obvious one for us as that is like Spotlight, all these like fantastic equities, yeah, all these fantastic sort of like casting callbacks, darn eye, they're all great things that you can if you pay for subscriptions, you can apply for stuff from there and then.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:25

And whether or not you ever hear back, I mean I even so you don't you don't even need subscriptions a lot of the time. I mean, I found uh a couple of these short films on on Facebook for like there's local, there's different local casting course. Right. Uh like for example, I use of course use the Bristol one when I'm in Bristol, but yeah, continue, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

No, no, it it's all a matter of perspective for how much time and effort you put into the industry. If you put in the correct amount of time and you give the right attitude and confidence that you've got yourself as a character or as a person, you will get out of it what you give. Yeah. And I feel like when we work as actors, we're not always going to land a job that's gonna keep us in a job forever. It's typically that the hardest industry ever because it's not consistent. You don't you don't have work every day of the week for the next 85 years.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

What is it you're currently working on now then?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

I am doing a skit on Wednesday. I'm not I'm not allowed to really say who it's with. Oh, okay. Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

Don't get yourself in trouble if you've got an NDA or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

I oh I never really talk about it until it's happened. Yeah. But it was a one-off opportunity, and it was like, wow, I'd love to take that. Please give me the opportunity, that's fantastic. And they're little things that you build your confidence up to say, like, I'm gonna be doing this next, I'm gonna be doing that next. They all come in small portions. You can't expect everything in life to come in one big, like, here's the package, this is what you're gonna do for the next four years. It's all gonna come in small steps.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:52

Oh yeah, what's what's the uh adage about um the person in the industry that works the longest is the accountant because they work they work pre pre uh during and post, you know, they're the longest term employers in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Yeah, and I think the my opinion of life is your life's uh sort of set out in a way already where you you your life's maybe written a little bit and some things are meant to happen. And I do believe in the running of in the industry for both of us, we've got that uh absolute like passion for something. So if you keep working at a passion, your outcome will always be great. And if you lose something, you lose interest, you find it in something else.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Yeah, probably say if you do something you love, you'll never work a day in your life. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

So I think positive mental attitude going forward for anyone in this industry is what will keep everyone glued to their hearts and something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:47

Niall, what about you? What are you you're still in Bristol at the moment?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:49

I'm still in Bristol. Uh I guess for me now it's probably just looking for an agent or something like that. Um, but I'm happy where I'm at at the minute, so you know, just doing Short films, uh the fact I've recently got an essay gig, so uh that's exciting. I thought that SA stuff didn't Bristol would be brilliant. Because there's so much going on in Bristol, it's because I think it's also a learning experience for me as a younger actor, and just to see how uh you know people operate on set, and you know, it's it's been very beneficial. I mean, stage is very different to screen, and I only recently kind of made the jump to screen, so there's still you know things that I'm learning here and there, um, and I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Yeah, and now you've got your industry credit for oh of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:38

So I'll reckon you got that on the IMDb, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

Also, it's really nice with the credit because we've had a lot of people collectively ask us, like, oh, who was the team that you work with? We'd love to know who was part of it. And then you go on IMDB, and everyone who was involved with it is there. Yeah, and it's really nice because then you remember like names like Paul, the cameraman. You remember people like, oh my god, they were so brilliant, had such a laugh with them. Yeah, and it makes you think back, and then people are like, Oh, who was this and who was that? And whether or not you were involved in an experience or not, those people all had individual inputs to your experience and made you think, Oh wow, wow, that was really, really soft, naturous, well put together.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:18

I mean, the the the crew really worked hard to kind of to kind of get it done, uh especially to kind of capture that that rawness and that organic kind of nature of the of of the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

And we also experienced a little bit with you Sai too because we had that opportunity where we we had time with you, yeah, uh off camera and stuff, and we we were chatting away, weren't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be i in the in the wilderness at the beach and we were going to and from to set, weren't we, all the time. It was it it was just spending time with people who made you feel comfortable. So thank you for that. No, you're very welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:50

It's great to work with you both, and and it I'm glad to see that it's had the right result coming from there as well for you both, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

So we've um we've been able to mention obviously that we can find you professionally on IMDB, um, that your episode, which is Friends Divided by Grief, can be found on BBC iPlayer. Uh if anybody should wish to connect with you, where can they find you on socials?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

On Instagram, Nil D H. Yeah, uh Reese.matthew D. Yeah, I was trying to think about it there. And that's Nile, that's Nil with two L's. R-H-Y-S, yeah, Reese. Reese the Welsh way, uh dot Matthew D. Yeah, but we social media is fantastic. That's the way you connect with people now. We're very lucky in this modern world to have such great connections through social media, isn't it? So I mean, donkeys years ago, we wouldn't have had anything like it, right? So we're very lucky in the people are very connected now and the industry is connected through like yourself, like creative industries. This this where we are today is fantastic. It's a really great opportunity to network with people all over the shot. So we're very lucky to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:49

Even with social, to be fair, with social media, you could follow someone from I mean, for me, if I follow someone from Bristol, I'll often find that I have mutuals with them from elsewhere. You know, it's it's it's good to be connected in that kind of sense. Oh, yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:04

I have one last question, really, for you, and it was something that kind of puzzled me when I was looking through your social media. And on Niles Instagram channel, it says you are an actor, model, and orator. Orator. So yeah, that's uh maybe said orate terms, like no, it's orator, um, which the definition is a public speaker. Especially one who is eloquent or skilled.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:27

Well, previously, um well, I still I'd still be open to doing it, but uh in the past I have done many a public talk. Uh it kind of slowed down after COVID, but I used to give public talks on archaeology.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Wow, really?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

Something I never really knew about.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:43

I was like, oh right, specifically what type of archaeology? Um so it's a it's a monument, you've probably heard of it. Offers Dyke runs from uh Pristatin to Chepster. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the longest linear man-made monument in Europe. And it's longer than Hadrian's Wall, but it never gets any of the same coverage. So very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

I think we could set up another podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

Yeah, just thinking about that. Just for me to waffle.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

I'll still drink coffee in the corner and listen. Yeah, do you know what? It's it's been fantastic to have you, Dave. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much for having us. Appreciate it. Really glad to see that that the benefit of being on that show has had a great result to you moving forward, you know, personally and professionally as well. And it's great to see that it had the right effect. Yeah, really. So absolutely. Reese Niall, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you very much for having us. Yeah, and uh, we will wish you all the best for the future. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.