The HR Community Podcast
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Civitas Talent is excited to bring you a series of podcasts dedicated to the HR community. This is a space where you can learn best-practice solutions from HR community leaders, with host Shane O'Neill.
Whether you’re a CEO, HR executive or operating across the wider HR sector - this podcast is for you!
The HR Community Podcast
Lucy Wilson, Chief People & Culture Officer, Gumtree Group, Attracting, Retention & Developing Gen Z
Lucy Wilson, Chief People Officer at Gumtree Australia, takes us on a fascinating journey through her nearly two-decade career in HR and people leadership across diverse industries. With remarkable candor, she shares the challenges and triumphs of guiding Gumtree through a monumental transformation – transitioning from global ownership to becoming a locally-owned ASX-listed business while uniting three distinct Australian brands under one cohesive cultural umbrella.
Lucy unpacks the delicate art of rebuilding company culture after significant organizational change, revealing how her team fostered excitement and ownership during uncertainty. "We had to help people see that we actually get to own this now," she explains, describing how positioning change as an opportunity rather than a threat created momentum for positive transformation.
The conversation explores the evolving expectations of today's workforce, particularly Gen Z employees seeking purpose-driven work. Lucy shares Gumtree's innovative partnership with food waste prevention app Saveful, demonstrating how connecting corporate initiatives to meaningful social impact resonates with younger employees while aligning perfectly with Gumtree's marketplace ethos of sustainability and reuse.
Perhaps most valuable is Lucy's practical perspective on artificial intelligence in HR practice. Rather than fearing technology, she advocates for strategic adoption that frees HR professionals from administrative burdens to focus on what truly matters – meaningful human connections. Her insights on where AI excels (documentation, compliance) versus where human touch remains essential (empathy, complex people issues) offers a balanced roadmap for HR professionals navigating technological change.
For aspiring HR leaders, Lucy distills her success into two powerful recommendations: identify your unique strengths ("magic sprinkles") and develop robust commercial acumen. Her emphasis on understanding business operations, finances, and strategic alignment challenges listeners to elevate HR from a support function to a genuine business partnership.
Ready to transform your approach to people leadership? Listen now and discover how balancing technological innovation with human connection is the future of effective HR practice.
Get in touch with Civitas Talent!
Enjoying this episode of The HR Community Podcast? Stay tuned for quick insights and updates during this episode, including upcoming HR events, workshops, and resources for 2025, proudly brought to you by Civitas Talent. Your journey to building better teams and thriving in HR starts here. Visit www.civitastalent.com or connect with us on LinkedIn for more. Let’s get back to the conversation!
Welcome to the HR Community Podcast. My name is Shane O'Neill, founder of Sila Tass Talent, the HR and HSE recruitment community. Each episode, we will host HR leaders and discuss their journey and discover best practice HR solutions across the HR industry. Whether you're a CEO, hr executive or operating across the wider HR space, this podcast is for you. Please like and subscribe, and don't forget to comment and share your views. Enjoy the episode. Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of the HR Community Podcast. This morning I'm joined with Lucy Wilson. Lucy is the Chief People Officer for Gumtree Australia. Good morning, lucy.
Speaker 2:Good morning Shane. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited. I've been waiting to have this chat with you, although I feel like we could chat for a long time, so you're going to have to keep me honest today. Yeah, I know right.
Speaker 1:The first time Lucy and I caught up, we spoke in depth for such a long time. We were like we should have just recorded that. But here we are again with the more refined version.
Speaker 2:That's it. I'm going to stick to refined today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, good, good, good. Now, if anyone is sitting here listening to the podcast and they don't know who Gumtree are, I'd be very confused, particularly here in Australia. But for those who maybe don't, from our international listeners, lucy, tell us a little bit about Gumtree and, more importantly, tell us a little bit about you and your role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, shane. So I mean, look, as you rightly pointed out, I am the chief people and, I like to think, culture officer for Gumtree Group, and Gumtree Group is home to three brands here in Australia, one being Gumtree Australia. So our marketplace, how we sell and buy things online, cars Guide, which is an editorial that talks about, you know, cars, and we give lots of research and we inform people that come to read about Cars Guide.
Speaker 1:And Auto Trader, and so, yeah, home to the three brands and very much um local aussie-based classifieds great, amazing, um definitely getting uh into the detail with the evolution of of gumtree and obviously that that whole world of of media and technology. But before we do, lucy, if you don't mind, can you take us back? So tell us a little little bit about your journey in HR, where you started? Why? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:It's a little bit of a scary thought I mean, I was just saying this to you before, I mean almost 20 years coming up of work within HR, or people in culture as we tend to refer to it now, because it is so much more right than that human resources piece alone and humans are so much more than that. So I've been in HR teams now people in culture teams for probably the last 20 years. I actually accidentally fell into the HR space. I took on a little staff coordinator role looking after all of these incredible locations in Brisbane I'm a Brizzy girl really and then once I was about 20, I was lucky enough to have an offer to move from the Brisbane firm for PwC over to Sydney and then 16 years later, sort of the rest started.
Speaker 2:And here we are yeah, worked for lots of different brands professional services, I guess, and the large you know, finance kind of rites of passage, did all of that and learned some incredible things and you know some really grounding things too that are kind of that breeding ground for HR and how it develops. But then had this passion I think that was ignited for startup. I guess more scale up. I wouldn't really call the business of workforce startup but, yeah, businesses that are scaling, businesses that are trying to solve problems, and those problems I mean from a people and culture perspective, problems right where there's change to be had, transformation, really enjoy that good stuff and so spent a lot of time in you know whether that was digital advertising or you know the advertising space.
Speaker 2:We did both. I guess more the UX UI piece from a VML perspective and agency-based versus being in-house. So, yeah, lots of work in lots of different organizations and different industries. So yeah, lots of work in lots of different organisations and different industries and, more recently, harnessing sort of that love and passion for people being able to access, you know, anything online. Essentially, right, it's almost a little bit like, I mean, classifieds can almost be a little bit e-commerce-y in the sense that you're there to shop, or you're there to sell, or you're there to list, or you're there to be informed.
Speaker 2:So taking all of that experience and bringing it to Gumtree Group has been awesome so far.
Speaker 1:Very cool, very cool, and obviously you touched on some of the industries there. Particularly when you started to get into the scale-up side of things. I noticed some of those industries weren't just obviously digital tech related. There were industries that were going through significant change and transformation themselves. Like you mentioned the classifieds, the media everything's gone from paper-based magazines, um, etc. To um to online um. Although everything goes full circle, I'm sure we'll certainly see magazines, retro magazines, coming back um the bigs again. Tell us a little bit about um that, when it came to you supporting them from a hr perspective because I'd imagine you're dealing with um you know quite niche roles to not just recruit but then retain that talent and develop them through to. You know spinning multiple plates and wearing many hats, as they say in those kind of organizations, like. Tell us a little bit about that experience, lucy.
Speaker 2:I mean we've been through a significant change journey. You know, part of the eBay group and then, you know, later on moved to a business overseas that basically had a lot of classifieds within their business and then sold to a local ASX and now being ASX listed business. So it's been quite a journey. I actually arrived at Gumtree at a time where that change had just that last change I mentioned had taken place. So it was an interesting time because there was this population of incredible talent and really great people, but also they'd just been through something massive and, I think, coming in and having to very quickly figure out, you know, with a huge shift in leadership, a huge change agenda, how are we going to do this in a way where you know people trust us, they have optimism and can feel hopeful about our business and where we're heading, but how are we going to bring this all together? And so that was I mean, that has been a huge journey that we've been on, and our CPTO actually he led this huge project for us. I mean you can imagine when you're transitioning intra-country, we're going from global to local, which is a really different thing to do. I guess it means brand new systems across the board for everybody, like it doesn't, it doesn't kind of discriminate. Everything has to change. I was really lucky that he was leading that journey for us because it meant P&C could actually go first and systems and getting to choose what it was that we wanted to implement was actually a really positive thing. And saying to people hey, we've decided that this is what might work best for us for the next, however long it's going to help us fix this laundry list of issues that we've been experiencing and we're going to bring these back home and we actually get to own them. Like how exciting is that? So, trying to drive in a culture that is a little hurt, trying to drive that excitement around, but we get to own this now, so we actually get to be, if you will, those people that are in charge of their own destiny.
Speaker 2:So that was something, I think, for me that I could very quickly see was a potential for us as a business, and I'm very, very proud to say that we harness that massively through lots of different initiatives, whether it was building out our own value set, what do we stand for, how do we want to work together, how do we operate as a united team.
Speaker 2:And there was lots of work that had to happen, in that, I mean, we've hired almost 90 people in the last, you know, 18 months with an incredible talent acquisition lead, who nobody is allowed to take, by the way, and you know it's just been. It's been a very big journey. So we've had to have real sort of very clear strategic intent when we move ahead with something, because we have limited bandwidth as well, right, and so we need to make sure that the things that we do in our business have an impact. So that was sort of part of that planning, and I know that's a long way around, but there's lots of big things in there. I mean, how do you even begin to talk about a transformation of that size? I mean, that, to me, was probably a very, very real transformation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, it's the same Gumtree group right. So at one point we were operating, as you know, as Gumtree Cars guys at an auto trader and we still very much have that uniqueness and sort of specialness to each one of those brands with purpose. But ultimately we came together as one group and one home, which is Gumtree Group.
Speaker 1:Amazing. It's such a cool journey. Like I said at the start, if you're listening to this, particularly if you're in Australia and not sure who Gumtree are, I'd be very, very surprised because I think it's such a household name. So, being part of that journey where you're part of the team that are really driving the brand forward in the current climate, with the current sort of workforce which we'll talk about it as well in a little bit um, I think I think it's pretty cool because I think that that just such a an interesting story where, um, you essentially can't take your foot off the gas, um, for too for too much long because, um does, there's so much competition out there, um, so, yeah, again, it was just a really cool story.
Speaker 1:I know we talked a little about it before. The next thing I was going to talk to you a little bit about Lucy was and I know you've sort of been interviewed and been part of some publications around this at all is the different workforces that we manage from a people and culture perspective, but also from a talent acquisition perspective. So you know more, notably Gen Z and some of the other groups that we recruit and try and retain and develop. Tell us a little bit about some of your insights there. I mean, you know, maybe we could sort of unpack a little bit your advice and maybe tips with regards to recruiting Gen Z, from their expectation through to what you've sort of been able to implement and support there.
Speaker 2:Look, I mean, our workforce is actually very diverse. Our Gumtree Group business is filled with lots of different people from lots of different places and spaces and at lots of different ages ages, I would imagine, um, which is such an important thing as well, because when you kind of I mean, in bigger organizations, gen plays such a key role. I think for us, gen is playing a bigger role in the market, right. So who's who's actually who's using? So who's our traffic, who's actually using our sites, right, and who's coming to buy, sell, list? You know just, you know, I guess, inquire, be informed who's coming to the site. So I think there's probably two pieces to that and having people that can think that way in your business and that can understand how, you know, gen Z operates as well.
Speaker 2:I think, fundamentally, though, one of the things I find most interesting about, I guess, those sort of I guess, younger Gens, right, or the more sort of junior entry-level workforce, is that they genuinely really care for purpose.
Speaker 2:So there's a very, very big importance placed on, you know, healthy life, healthy living, feeling like they're living life and it's worth it, right, and that's shifting the entire way that they work and therefore the expectations, and I was about to say entitlement, right, because there's a little bit of how do we get that right from balance internally.
Speaker 2:But I would say every workforce and I know for us needs to be filled with every generation that brings something unique from their own talent and toolkits and their lived experiences.
Speaker 2:But I would say, with Gen Z, one of the biggest things to tap into is what's important to you and can we give you an opportunity to be not only successful professionally through setting you up personally to actually have that need met right? So what's important to you, what's a purpose initiative that you find yourself thinking about that matters, and can we connect you with that somehow? Right, and we've done a little bit around that recently by partnering with an organisation called Saveful, who have created some incredible technology and are saving Aussies basically time, money and food waste, which we're one of the worst for in the world is food waste. Yeah, we throw out a lot of food and a lot of groceries that otherwise would have been able to be reused. So this app actually puts you in touch with multiple recipes built by matt moran's team and if you know who, he is amazing yeah um and a farmer as well.
Speaker 2:I think he's a third generation farmer um don't quote me on that, but absolutely incredible founded by um, a woman called Kim McDonald, and we have really partnered with her and Mike, who's part of that business to go. We've kind of got this site here that is all about potentially pre-loved, pre-owned and that's circular economy. So there's a direct link with that and Saveful and what we believe in and we want to limit waste. I mean we're all about that. You know that's part of why what we do exists actually as a marketplace. It eliminates that, and so we're on a mission with Saveful to kind of really pay close attention to how we can possibly not only make it better for the planet and our environment but also the generations to come. I found Gen Z are really interested in that type of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool Right.
Speaker 2:That sort of purpose pool. So what else is your organisation doing is a question I'd probably throw out there that taps into that for everybody. And I'm not only saying it's important to Gen Z, because it's not. We know that it's actually very important to me, it's very important to everybody in our business. But that connector where I can come to work and do more than just the job description, I think is one part that's really important. I've just seen it's an interesting place and space to tap into. I'm not saying that's all that's required, because their expectations around career progression are actually extremely fast paced. So being able to kind of not pump the brakes on them but really help them kind of see the journey that's ahead is also a bit of a work in progress.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I agree with you as well that connection to purpose. I mean, I know that some of our team, when there's that sort of entry level, junior level role and we're representing the client, one of the first questions is, you know, tell us a little bit more about the organization, their vision, their values, the purpose. Whereas, you know, when I had that conversation 10 years ago with candidates when I first started recruitment, it was how much money is it paid? Where's the base? You know they were sort of the more essential questions at the time. But, like, even with your point in terms of like expectation, I think as well there is that expectation with um, not just gen z, with with um, a lot of the workforce, that there's a lot more flexibility now. So, um, and when I say flexibility I mean the flexibility with, with office and hybrid working and stuff. So I don't think it's it's, it's the the more essential question. Now, where's the base? You know, I'm assuming this could be based, based, or I'm expecting it could be based from anywhere, because you're a flexible business, we hope. But then yeah, what's your purpose, what's your vision, what's your values?
Speaker 1:We had a really interesting conversation with one of our workshops recently that we're running and we talked a lot about grad programs. So on one side of the room we had an organization. They were, they're a legal firm. They were talking about um, their, their intake for their, for the grad program, which has sort of became more and more competitive for them because, um, they would. They once had the brand um above the door, that um, everyone that finished their law degree would, would want to work with um and do their grad program, whereas now they're in competition with not just other legal firms that are thinking of new and creative things, but they're in competition with you know, your big tech brands, your snapchats and your facebooks, who are doing just as good in terms of um, their grad program for lawyers and um and whatnot. So, um, but yeah, how?
Speaker 1:But yeah, how you're ethically connected to Facebook I can't comment on. But that was just sort of one kind of example. Another thing I want to talk to you about, lucy, was I mean it'd be very silly for me not to talk a little bit about AI on this podcast with you because of your investment in the technology industry from a HR perspective. But you know, tell us a little bit about your views on AI. You know, at a recent workshop we talked a little bit about AI as well and I think I was telling you before we jumped on the call. We had one side of the room who were very immature sort of at that learning stage, a bit critical, and then on the other side you had those that were really embracing it and starting to implement it and have learned about it and starting to be advocates for it. So what are your sort of thoughts on all that?
Speaker 2:Well, I think there are two camps, right. I think we've got the camp. That's just not quite sure yet. Sceptics, not enough information I think we all sit in that camp from time to time, by the way, and there is a fear factor around things we're seeing and how AI is being used is people's biggest concern. So the how is huge. I don't think we're going to solve that quickly, because I think it's one of those things, much like living through a pandemic where you go, okay, well, that just happened and this is also happening, and you kind of have to deal with that as you go.
Speaker 2:Right, huge amount of resilience With AI. I mean, there's also your other camp who are embracing it, loving it and living it and living their best lives. Actually, in some ways, from a people and culture team perspective you know, saying this to someone else the other day we're really trying to focus on where can we use and leverage some AI? Where it's not of a risk to us, right, but it actually helps elevate how we service our business and candidates, right. So my general rule of thumb with AI and I'm honestly I love working in tech because everybody around me is smarter and they all know exactly what they're talking about, and I don't know enough about it, and I'm loving being educated on it, but ultimately, the rule of thumb is if it makes things better, does not create fear, does not create risk. We're not prepared to take right and it means it frees our people up in a very limited resource team to do better work, more quality work, higher value driving, better results.
Speaker 2:Why would we not look to adopt and adapt, and so starting small? You know, an example would be a note taker, right, so using AI for notes. You know, I'm certainly very lucky at Gumtree in terms of how we operate, where there isn't a need for copious amounts of notes. I would imagine, though, that in some organisations and industries, particularly in heavy award based industries there's heavy award-based industries there's a real need for note-taking, and that's where I'd start. Right, who can do this for us? So get your more junior burger HR professionals to learn how to take the notes.
Speaker 2:I think that skill's important, but can you leverage AI to actually help you get much better results so you can be present and pay attention in that meeting rather than having to note take as well? And the same goes for interviews, right. When you're having an interview, what's the policy you can put in place, by the way, with your candidates, letting them know before they meet with you that we use an AI-generated note taker. But it's really just to help us actually move through this so we can look each other in the eye, eyeball each other a little bit and build a nice connection rather than worrying about going back and keeping up with my notes. So I actually I'm really excited about some of those basic things that we're looking to adopt, if we haven't adopted already, and I think there are going to be some significant challenges.
Speaker 2:Part of that is, you know, equally, we use it for note-taking, but people also use it for their applications. It's not really them, or it sounds fantastic and then they get in front of us for a presentation and it just falls flat on its face because it's in person. They're being asked questions, live, they can't answer and there's just kind of that breakdown from there, right, so I can see it presenting some issues. It's kind of helping us establish things on one hand, and on others, it creates a bit of a time waster, you know, in that type of circumstance. So I'm probably sitting more in the camp that's open and ready to kind of adopt and then adapt.
Speaker 2:But I also can see and understand and empathise with the fact that there is sort of fear and uncertainty and a real lack of, you know, information, ironically, given what AI can provide. But I do think what's exciting is that it's going to continue to get better and better, certainly from a workplace perspective, I would say. The new generation of human resources professional or people in culture, professional, including talent acquisition, learning and development, org design you know, hr, these skills that one has, I actually think, the data and insights piece and being able to leverage AI to elevate your business I actually think that's going to be a mad skill if we can find people with them coming into our workforce. I certainly, you know, when hiring for my team at that sort of more. You know, one to three years HR entry point. I'm going to be looking for that because I'm going to need them to school me, um. So I think there's a place and a space for it yeah, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I agree with you and I and I certainly feel like I'm in a similar camp to you um, and the reason being is I can see this as a really great opportunity for people in culture and the wider HR, um and lifecycle jobs to really embrace it. I mean, yeah, it's AI. It's very much categorized in the technology space. There's a lot of really sophisticated tech brands that are driving innovation in it, but people in culture can start to really look at how they can implement it into their businesses, but also how they can start to control it as well, and that control will hopefully start to help with some of the, the fear um, but yeah, it's. It's still so open, it's still so new. I love the, the note-taking um idea. We have a tool as well that we use.
Speaker 1:I've been on multiple video calls where I've been sent a brief of the full meeting, word for word, what was discussed. Like you say, you know I can focus on the person and the conversation, but then you know we've also had conversations with some organizations recently and I think I was telling you earlier about the workshops we were running where organizations have started to embrace AI into their team from a role perspective. So you know, I know Workday and some other brands have been talking about AI agents that support um ai agents, um that support I I spoke to one organization who um have plans and they're sort of midway through restructuring their whole level one level two escalations, um to be completely managed by ai, um, which which, again, if we break it into the, the fear is obviously, if you know you're looking at it, okay, that's gonna replace my role, um I.
Speaker 1:I think the camp you should start to look at is how can I embrace it so it doesn't replace my role, it just enhances it and evolves it more. So we're seeing a lot of that roles being completely restructured, but then hopefully that will start to free up time for your HR team to get involved more in the experience, the retention, the development, like the stuff where human interaction really matters with the data and the insights yeah.
Speaker 2:I agree and sorry I almost cut you off there. It really matters, and I think that's the important part, is that you know, I think AI has started to anyway but will evolve into a Q&A for people who want you know people skills, better people skills, better leadership skills, and asking a question and going, hey, how do I deal with an employee that has X, y, z or showing symptoms of blah, blah, blah, and you get your answer. And you get either a cookie cutter answer or you get a really in-depth answer based on however much the algorithm has learned right. So I understand that that's likely how things will shift. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think organizations will become. Where things might become a little unstuck is if they don't have someone to moderate and temper that right. You know, I think of a real life example.
Speaker 2:I do some pro bono work for the Cancer Council. I speak and meet with you know patients I guess you could say within you know the cancer space. So they're either being affected by cancer or someone they know is and they've called for some help and they need some help or advice. Now that might be from an employment legislation end that we have lawyers for, it might be from an HR end, where I sit on the other side of the table although I hope I'm never on the HR side of the table and battling with me, because I would hate to think that we're making it difficult for someone who's unwell. But you'd be very surprised, shane, at some of the things that get presented to me through these incredible clients that are so brave, and when I'm speaking with them I often think to myself AI has a place and a space, right, but there is no way that that problem is going to be solved with heart and with empathy in the same way to get the same results, because so often it's actually about confidence in that person and being able to tackle these really difficult discussions with their employer, and that is not something yet that we're sophisticated enough to offer.
Speaker 2:So I do think to moderate that and almost like culturally check it right, we've got to have someone in charge of saying that's too much, we're going to pull that back, or let's do it this way because this aligns to our organisation's heartbeat and our values, right? So I actually think that I think there might be a role for that, funnily enough, in future, as you were alluding to, you know, in the organisations you're talking to, I think there might be more than one role and I don't think it's like the temper police or the AI police, but I definitely think there's kind of that due diligence assurance piece that needs to happen to make sure we're still all being very real with our customers and with our people. And we've got that at front of mind, don't you? Because that's probably where the fear is driven from, and just personalised experiences like nothing beats sitting down with someone and having a real in-person connection moment, however that takes place. Nothing really beats that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 2:And fundamentally, as humans, you know, we all crave it in one way or another yeah, most of us. So I think that will always be something that's needed. But wouldn't it be amazing from an HR perspective to be freed up so much that you could actually add more value through those meaningful moments and let AI take care of you know, taking registering things in files, moving things where they've got to go, making sure that payroll's correct, you know, doing the checks and balances, like. Wouldn't it be great to alleviate a little bit of that transactional work that's still super important and just spend time with people a bit more? And I'm a traditional, you know, I guess, people person. In that sense I love spending time with others. So for me, I'm like this could be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And we talked a little bit earlier before we jumped on about the complexity of the award system here in Australia and how they're adding more and more awards. And I mean again, if I was looking at that from a holistic AI perspective, I'd be thinking, okay, what can I integrate into my business and team right now to make sure that I'm not stuck in a room for 14 hours a day trying to dot the i's and cross the t's?
Speaker 2:Yeah, such a good point. And yeah, look, I think there's something like 160 awards, modern awards, and look, you don't need to be aware of all of those, unless you're in an employment law role, I would imagine. But look, if you needed to be, the game's about to change, right? If you need to be across a couple of awards or you know you need to make sure that you're understanding the awards that affect your people and your industry, then what a great way to start that. I think it's all going to evolve over time. It's going to be interesting to watch. We're all going to be part of it in one way or another.
Speaker 2:But, you know, I also think about some of those other jobs where AI won't be able to even sort of touch them. Like, how do you have AI without a robot, for example? Right, so I'm sure in time that will come, I think iRobot every time someone says that. But you know, let's say you're part of a council and you run maintenance for parks or whatever. That is right. When you go and assess an issue, there's no one else assessing that issue but you, so you might be able to type it in or you might be able to get some feedback, which I think again could elevate how you deliver.
Speaker 2:But someone's still got to physically do the work and they've still got to teach the generations that come in how that's going to work and how you do it and how you solve that problem. So I think reading or listening, is good and we're going to be so much more informed. I think we're going to need to be quite specific about what we listen to and what we don't. But yeah, I think, look, those sort of life skills and, you know, human skills that are just so important. I don't think they're going to go away en masse, they're still going to be needed.
Speaker 1:I agree with you and even just as you're talking there, I thought of one example recently where we'd travelled to the Philippines and I don't know if you've been, but service in every single restaurant, every single bar, hotel, like was just immaculate, like it was like the customer service you get in the US.
Speaker 1:Put on steroids, it was amazing, but they were so Is it over resourced A suitable word like they were so over resour with staff, um, that you kind of got that sort of intimate one-to-one experience, and I don't think there's any technology or robotics or ai that could um to meet that expectation. When you've essentially got your own, you know um personal, uh, you know service representative or your waiter waitress um for the day, and you know they're, they're standing a foot away from your table at all times, um, but yeah, amazing service. Food's great over there as well, of course, but um, yeah, I was just blown away with the, the level of service and that ability to look at. You know how many people are we going to need in this restaurant to support, um, every single table?
Speaker 2:um, let's double it so I like I, yeah, I hear that and actually I was gonna say I'm, um, I'm reading a book at the moment and, um, it's called unreasonable hospitality. It's by will um gadara, I think it is. I think that's how you say it, and I keep forgetting. I just remember it says unreasonable at the top and I kept forgetting what the book was um, and it actually talks about this experience of over delivering um and sort of that. It's been missing right and where it's at, and you know how much people enjoy over delivering um and we've just sort of forgotten about that. I think we've lost our way a little bit. So, yeah, I mean, ai is going to play a big part in being able to overdeliver, I think, in lots of ways. So, yeah, look, I could talk about AI for ages. I won't, I'll stop there. But yeah, very, very interesting and it's a big watch out, isn't it? Watch this space.
Speaker 1:It certainly is. It certainly is, and I'm mindful of your time as well, so I don't want to keep you too much longer. But I mean one last thing I might probably want. I know you're a big advocate for development and mentoring and you know I've read some of the articles you've been involved in and like, for aspiring leaders, lucy, sort of any advice that you give to any of the aspiring leaders you know that are coming up through their HR journey. You know, I mean, looking at your journey, you started off in some of the larger, more professional services, financial services brand and then you've sort of spun off into your scale up and your enterprise tech brands and that was your journey. Honestly, that doesn't need to be everyone's journey, but, like, what kind of advice would you give to some of the aspiring leaders, maybe just in general?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was thinking about this when we talked about it last time. I mean, it's so strange even to call it a career, because actually it's always been about you know, working right and you do what you enjoy, but I know that I've been really lucky in that regard. I think it's very important, as anybody, whether you're in people and culture or not, but I'm going to talk to that specifically because it is where I play and it is very much about if I could impart anything on anyone that's hoping to learn something new, even if it only impacts a couple of people. I think being very clear on a couple of things that I think can be really important, like now they always have been, but also in the years to come. The first one would be what are your magic sprinkles? So what is it that you bring that sets you apart from the everyday operators?
Speaker 2:And I don't have a degree, shane, so I'm cut from a bit of a different cloth in lots of ways, and I didn't have the you know, the privilege at the time of education and that's been an option since, but you know I opted for. Whatever those reasons are, I haven't done that, and so for me getting very clear on what I offer against some of that competition that gives me a competitive advantage has been really helpful, and I can talk a little bit more about that. But an example for me personally you know, when I ask my clients or I ask my team, you know what makes me good at what I do. Like what would you say my thing is and they'll talk about sort of this weaving process, right. So you've got all of these things happening in a million different places and spaces as a leader within your organization, in a million different places and spaces as a leader within your organization, but being able to choose sort of what type and style of thread is needed to sew it all together, Right.
Speaker 2:And that's what I do all the time, whether it's working with founders or CEOs, whether it's working with you know, people who are scaling their businesses, or mentees. I like to think about it as where can I kind of tie these things together for you so we can have a big impact collectively? And so, for me, observance and being able to observe things and be clear on yeah, well, that probably means this, so we might have an issue here or we might need to think about this. That's become really important and now it's a skill that I love doing and do, naturally. So that helps partnering and building relationships as well with leaders when you want to connect, and, I think, being informed that way and being able to go. Well, actually, this is happening over here, so that could make sense. Now let's pull this lever and see if that works right. So the thread piece is a big one for me. And then the second part, after knowing what your magic sprinkles are, would be get clear on the commercial components of your business. Be commercial, be an operator that understands what commercial really means. It does not just mean understanding how the business operates. That's a basic, fundamental right.
Speaker 2:P&c roles take care of the entire organization in the size of businesses that I'm in. They have business units in larger corporate businesses, but particularly in scale-ups. You're often one of everything to everyone and so, being clear on how the business works, what this person's job is, what they do, how that affects our broader strategy and our OK job is what they do, how that affects our broader strategy and our OKRs, who's driving right? Who knows there's a connection between what you bring and the organization's goals right, and are you taking people on that journey? You can only do that if you're commercial and understand the commercial components of the business. And I mean understand and I'll say it again, learn how to read a P&L right. People talk about owning their budget often but from what I've seen a lot of the time, that's not the holistic organization budget. That's one small component or contributor. The people and operation costs of an organization is the largest part of the P&L. It always is. Understand it and get comfortable. Know how much things cost right.
Speaker 2:Think about negotiating like it's your own money yeah, so if you're going out for a system where you're going out to purchase something and you're going to ask for buy-in from the executive or from finance, be clear on the fact that you've behaved like this is your own money and this is the best. For these reasons, right, be ready and equipped. So I think those two things for me as an up and coming, or someone in their roles, or someone who's looking for a role, or someone who wants to progress in their career, I've never had a CEO say you're too informed and you know, oh, you're understanding this business a bit too much. Or oh, we've read the P&L way too well there. Or you've thought about savings or cost over here. You're far too commercial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you know. And then what's the brand impact of? You know those brands in the market as well. So what is it that our customers are telling us? And having that customer-centric thing about you is so important. But I think, as people and culture people, we actually have that ingrained in our DNA. We are about our customer, which is our employee or our people. So yeah, two things magic sprinkles. What are you known for? And the second thing would be commercial, commercial, commercial. Understand it. And if you don't ask the question, Amazing, such good advice.
Speaker 1:Thanks, lucy, and I think that advice can relate to anyone that's listening, at any level, like you say, and I love the thread analogy as well I'm going to use that one. I've never heard that one before.
Speaker 2:A thread analogy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always try and steal one or two things from people on the podcast, don't you steal that you can steal it.
Speaker 2:I mean, we all do it, everybody's doing it. Yeah, I think the how is what's. You know it separates us right and what we bring. But look, the conversation's been so enjoyable, shane. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It's been great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been really good. I feel as if we could talk underwater and probably talk for a lot longer, but I really hope there's some things of value in there for people and culture, people listening. There's so much information available, so much information. But you know, I often find I mean I go for a walk every morning with our dog and I love to listen to something. So, yeah, these podcasts have been great.
Speaker 1:Oh, good For other people as well.
Speaker 2:I heard Chris, one of the originals, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, he would have been one of the OGs back in the earlier seasons, but no, I appreciate you jumping on as well, lucy, and I think, like I said at the intro, we had such a great conversation a couple of months ago and I did regret not clicking record then, but it was nice to organise the time and do it properly. But I agree with you, I think we could sit here and talk all day, but we can't. Thank you very much, everyone who tuned in and is listening to this episode and others. Reach out to me, reach out to Lucy, if you want to connect. Yeah, thank you all.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Shane.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning in to the hr community podcast. Remember to like and subscribe and share your views and comments below. This podcast was brought to you by civitas talent, the hr and hsc recruitment community. Whether you're a candidate looking for a new role or organization looking to secure brand new talent for your team, please get in touch with us today, thank you.
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