The Hole Story - Golf Podcast

The Story of Retro Golf Club with Cory Crelan

• BestBall • Season 4 • Episode 33

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0:00 | 57:07

Explore the fascinating world of vintage golf clubs with Cory Crelan of Retro Golf Club. Discover the history, restoration process, and the unique experience of playing with classic equipment, and learn how this passion is shaping a new movement in golf culture.

https://retrogolfclub.com/

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*Music by AlexGrohl via Pixabay

SPEAKER_01

I didn't really have a need for all of the clubs, but I was like, wow, I'm like, there's there's gotta be something. There's gotta be something here. There's gotta be something that I can sort of do with all of this. I just settled on the idea that like I should just have like a fleet of these clubs to rent.

SPEAKER_00

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Whole Story Podcast. Robbie here. Jonathan, unable to make it today, not feeling too hot. But today I had an incredible chat with Corey Krelen of Retro Golf Club. He does other things in the game, you know, represents duckhead apparel in the golf world. But today we were mainly talking about Retro Golf Club and what he's doing there. So if you think back, if you're old enough to remember or, you know, kind of if you're young enough, you might want to Google this. But golf in like the 80s and 90s, like what that looked like. You know, it was a lot of persimmons before these metal woods started coming out, blades. You know, you had uh so many companies like McGregor, uh Spaulding, all these brands out there that were just doing incredible things. Professionals were doing their thing in the game of golf at the time. That's what they were using, that's what amateur golfers were using. And then clubs started shifting, you know, technology changed, and even now what we have is just light years different than what what it was then. But what Corey's doing with Retro Golf Club is amazing. He is finding all these, you know, 70s, 80s, 90s era clubs and restoring them a little bit and then providing ways for people to go out and use them. He is supplying Jonathan and I with some clubs, uh, persimmons and blades to use at an event. And so we're very thankful for that uh to be swinging some of these things. We're gonna have to get out and practice before because uh it's gonna take some getting used to uh to go back to what uh what it was. So anyway, great conversation with Corey. He's doing cool things. Check out retrogolfclub.com. We'll have links in there, also links to his Instagram account doing some good stuff. As always, uh, many thanks to our friends at Summit Golf Brands. The event we're going to is sponsored or brought to you by Fairway and Green, one of the Summit uh brands that they uh they have in the family. And so we'll be rocking some Fairway and Green stuff, but they have B Jatty and Zero Restriction as well. Yeah, if you go to any of their sites and use Best Ball20, you can get 20% off your order. But let's get to our chat now with Corey with Retro Golf Club. Y'all enjoy. All right, well, joining us today, Mr. Corey Creeland, maybe better known as Retro Golf Club. Corey, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01

I'm doing great. It's uh it's finally spring up here in New York City area, so uh it's good. Hopefully, uh hopefully the weather stays. It's been a long winter up this way. So um, you know, just to be outdoors is is a total plus.

SPEAKER_00

I get that. And I know you were able to travel down to Florida for uh the PGA show. Hopefully you got some golf in, but what I mean, what's the golf season like for you? Like when does it shut down? When are you back able to get outside?

SPEAKER_01

Uh, you know, it's strange. The seasons have kind of shifted up here in the northeast a bit compared to the way that you sort of traditionally think about it. Um, it's kind of like the spring has gotten a lot worse as far as getting out there early compared to what you would traditionally think. You know, that March is not a great month, but the on the opposite end, like November and even into December, like in recent memory in the last 10 years or so, certainly in November is you know, kind of extended the the golf year quite a bit on our end. So I don't know what's attributed to that, but yeah, so so it's you know basically from like April till Thanksgiving type of thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, I imagine it it's gotta be better during that period of time than what I experience here in South Carolina, where it's a billion degrees and a thousand percent humidity.

SPEAKER_01

And but you still go out and play golf because Yeah, I can't I can remember I I interned down on um Frip Island, South Carolina when I was in college, and I remember like being in like July, August, like you know, if you the middle of the day was a killer, you know, we we would typically play like first thing in the morning off the back nine um before the other uh groups had gotten around and play a quick, quick nine and and get in before you know the heat and humidity would just, you know, kind of step on you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for real. Well, you mentioned an internship, and I guess let's jump into kind of your history in the game. You're doing something really cool with retro, but I want to know like when did it start for you? Like when did you first pick up a club, fall in love with this game?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, geez. I mean, it's a million years ago. I I my parents moved like literally right next door to a municipal golf course in Western Mass when I was like six or seven years old. So I had a par three that was probably like 200 yards from from our driveway. So I started playing as a junior way back then, played a ton of ton of junior golf, competed. Like, you know, for me, that was just kind of like my it was kind of my thing. You know, golf wasn't necessarily cool back then. I'm, you know, kind of an introverted guy. And, you know, obviously like playing golf is like the perfect sport for someone with that um demeanor. So um I ended up continuing on and went to college out at uh this school called Fair State University in um north of Grand Rapids in Michigan. They had uh they have a professional golf management program. So I've got uh a marketing degree, went through, kind of mentioned those the one last internship that I did, got out of the Michigan winter, did three six-month internships at at different country clubs. When I graduated, kind of had a a pretty big leg up with the PGA of America and was able to um become a full class A member within a couple years after graduating. And I worked for probably, I think it was maybe 11 years as a as an assistant golf pro, mainly up in the Metro New York City area. And then the last, say, 20 years or so kind of shifted over into the sales side in in the green grass world. So I'm still involved in golf, but not professionally. I have my amateur status back, play a lot more sparingly these days. But um, but yeah, so I I I can't escape golf. It's it's you know, this is kind of what I what I do and what I know and where my network is. And yeah, that's that's a bit supporting me.

SPEAKER_00

Do you uh one dream living with your parents moving next to a golf course? That was always one of those things that I wish my family would have done. You know, now that my kids are growing up, it's like I wish I would have done it as well. One, selfish reasons, because I just imagine these houses right next to a par three course like you're describing, just getting out there and playing it nonstop and how that would develop the love of a game and how cool that it was at a local muni. That was uh that's pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I I essentially had like a par three. I mean, I went out there, I would go out there, you know, an hour for before dark after kind of play had stopped, and I all I did was chip putt hip bunker shots, like my short game, even even now, uh the tens of thousands of shots that I hit back then have kind of, you know, I I've got like some muscle memory of Yeah. From all that time, which, you know, you would never um you'd never have as as an adult for sure, with the you know, just the amount of hours spent is mind-boggling.

SPEAKER_00

For real. Well, you you mentioned the shift from uh working as a professional at different clubs and stuff to getting more on the greengrass, the selling into golf courses. Have you seen a shift just in your work-life balance going from someone that does everything? Because I mean, the golf pro does more things, I think, than people ever would imagine, all the way down to, you know, every little detail for the members, the course, you know, tournaments, all this other stuff. Have you had more of a a positive shift since you've left that and then now are calling on these places?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, 100%. I mean, the the big one being um, you know, the famously golf pros don't are working every weekend. So um that's kind of like the polar opposite of basically uh the entire working world. So um just having that sort of scheduling and yeah, I mean, uh, you know, the granted this is a going back a while a ways when I was working as a pro, but I mean, I would work 70, 80 hours a week, oftentimes seven days a week, and then, you know, would compete on days off. So um it was it was a lot. And I mean it's a credit to the the to the golf pros who who do that. And um, you know, it's it's definitely not um it's definitely not it's on when it comes right down to it, it's not an easy job. Um it kind of looks glamorous from you know from afar if you don't know the particulars of it. But when you sort of dig into all of it, it's a very challenging job. It's like kind of like, you know, literally like being a mayor of a city, just kind of, you know, reporting into a a a million constituents. And you really have to have that sort of demeanor and personality to just deal with a large quantity of personalities and you know people Well, tell us, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's it, you know, mayor of a city, that's a great way to describe it because you have to make everybody happy. And if there's things that aren't doing right, you know, if there's someone that they're gonna come to you too.

SPEAKER_01

That that you know you don't get along with, I mean, it doesn't, you know, you have to make it work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, now, you know, you've got the retro golf club, and we'll get to that in a second, but talk to us about what you're what you're doing on the I guess on the other side, maybe the the non-hustle thing, kind of the full-time job.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I I would be a starving artist if um I kind of had to rely on um retro golf club. But um, yeah, so I I recently, about a year ago, I started working with uh Tuckhead Apparel, which is um certainly down in your neck of the woods, um, kind of a legendary brand in in the southeast. And they uh they had been primarily operating within the men's specialty stores, outdoor retailers, and uh their own econ channel, which basically men's specialty and um outdoor retailers, it's kind of the same. It's kind of like a cousin to greengrass in that uh it's just independent stores, which they don't do in, you know, no department stores, there's no Amazon. So um, you know, I was brought on and I'm helping bring the line into the golf space um and just kind of offer something different. The brand is owned by uh Oxford Industries now, and they have, you know, it's a publicly traded company. Um they have a ton of resources. So um, you know, they've been making really, really good headway and kind of pulling upon the the 160 years of like heritage, um, you know, whether it be in the workwear side, reintroducing jeans this year, which they haven't had in, you know, probably 80, 90 years. So um it's a really easy brand to root for and uh it's been fun. They get a nice, nice team and you know, so far so good.

SPEAKER_00

He'll bring into the golf space.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, because people I mean, we have golf specific product, but you know, a lot of the a lot of the stores, you know, they've got kind of an opportunity just to sell, you know, lifestyle clothing. People are not wearing, you know, polyester golf uh performance apparel like 24-7. People have kind of rich lives and they do there's hunters, there's people that um, you know, depending on where you are, we just kind of have a wide mix of product that uh cater to people, whatever their sort of passion is.

SPEAKER_00

Very nice. Well, that's not the only thing you're doing. Like you said, you're doing that to help maybe support a passion project, but you've got retro golf club. So for those that are not aware of what that is, what you do, kind of go ahead and give like the the origin story of that. Like where did that idea come from?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, it's an interesting story. I kind of like stumbled upon it a little bit by uh by accident. Uh uh probably about 15, 16 years ago now, uh my dad passed away and um was moving from where the condo where they live, she had kind of all my dad's golf stuff. And back in around about 1980, 81, something like that, he was just getting in to start and play golf. He bought a brand new set of Hogan Apex 2s, which are like also known as cameos and the matching woods. And you know, he he wasn't one to kind of like keep a lot of extra stuff, but after he passed away, I I and I had some club stored in her garage, and I had to kind of clean all this stuff out, get it out of her hair. And basically what I did is I just put together a bag of uh the Hogan's. I had some refinished woods that I hadn't touched in a long time, and I I made like a a retro set out of it, and uh said, you know, that I should take these out someday and you know, see what see what it's like. And it took a couple years, and I finally I finally did. I I read a a book on nine hole golf courses. There's one author who's penned a a couple couple really cool books on nine hole courses specifically, and seemingly there's a good number of them in New England area. So I went up to the Hotchkiss School, it's a private school. They have this sort of classic, I think it was Rayner Banks was kind of like his first crack at designing the course. So I played the nine-holer there with the clubs, and it was pretty fun. I mean, I I did fairly well. They weren't bad aside from the driver that I had, just did not work at all. Like I I duck hook would be probably very, very mild description.

SPEAKER_00

I just couldn't have to make up a new term for what was happening.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was left of left, no matter what I did. So I was like, that's weird. So I got home and just started getting on eBay and was searching for all these brands that I remembered growing up as a kid that a good number of the brands, like um, you know, Spaulding. I grew up in Western Mass where Spaulding's located. McGregor was massive back then in the woods space. So just started searching around for all these makes and models that I had remembered as a kid. And I kind of just kept searching and searching, and I was just like floored. Um, and I hadn't looked at this stuff in, you know, who knows, 20 some odd years. And I just couldn't believe my eyes because the clubs just had like the resale value of them had just totally cratered, and like none of them were worth any money at all. So I was just like, wow. And I just like the I just kept searching and searching, and I was like, I guess it's I guess it's all of it. And shortly thereafter, I had saw a Facebook marketplace listing that had been up for a while, and it looks like I traded some messages with him. We had like a mutual connection, and there was a ton of persimmon woods. There was just kind of like zip tied irons, uh, looked like in this guy's storage area. And the guy was down in the lower east side of New York City. So I took a drive down there, and sure enough, like his father-in-law was a big golf enthusiast, had passed away. And I he he just didn't, you know, New York City storage, he needed the clubs out of his hair. And uh, so I got this, you know, basically car load full of clubs, probably 40, 50 woods, probably 30 some odd sets of irons, a bunch of like blade 8802 style Potters. The guy just had like amazing taste. He had this was like the greatest hits of 60s, 70s, 80s, really, really high quality stuff. And I got all those clubs for I think I paid $200. Wow. And so so I got I got it home, and that was kind of like just prior to COVID, and I was still was just kind of like in a a little bit of like state of shock, and I was like, I didn't really have a need for all of the clubs, but I was like, wow, I'm like, there's there's gotta be something, there's gotta be something here. There's gotta be something that I can sort of do with all of this. And I had a couple Jones bags. I had a I was was working at another apparel company at the time, had um cool logo. Uh friend of friend did me a favor um coming up with a logo and I had a couple uh navy blue, like the original Jones bags made up and uh kind of just outfitted the clubs, and I was like finally kind of stumbled, I kind of just settled on the idea that like I should just have like a fleet of these clubs to rent. I know that in the hickory world, it's a fairly common thing where um people rent out hickory sets, but there was still, and there's still at this time, there's really no one that is kind of focusing on this era of equipment. So that's kind of like the big the big thing is like I'm I'm saying that there's three eras of golf equipment. So there's hickory is like golf 1.0. This persimmon and blades is like, you know, after 1935. This would be like golf 2.0. In modern golf, you know, meadowwoods, titanium stuff would be like 3.0. You know, it's been a little bit of a a challenge, sort of delineating between what I have and Hickory Golf. So um, you know, that's kind of like the my overarching crusade really is to is to say, like, hey, there's there's actually three options. There, you know, 1.0 and 2.0 aren't the same.

SPEAKER_00

So sure. What is fascinating about that area is that do you think the nostalgia and the memory of like this is stuff that my dad played with that I started playing with, is that kind of the draw to it? Because I mean, we had Clark Willard on to talk about Hickory Revival and the cool things he's doing, but it seems that yes, there is a new interest in this era stuff, the 80s, 90s Persimmons and Blades kind of uh kind of game.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I mean, to you know, it's it's very simple. Uh it's in in my mind, it's like, hey, if I want to play with a bunch, you know, it's like if I said, hey, Robbie, like, would you if I'm gonna toss you the keys to a car, if I said I could give you you could either drive like a Ford Model T from like 1920, or I could give you like a 1980 Porsche 911 or Corvette or Mercedes or whatever, you know, kind of floats your boat type of thing. It's just like it's just that memory, it's just more relevant to me because this is what you know, this is what people played with, you know, back when I was starting. It's in my mind, it's kind of been like left for dead, you know, obviously with the resale value. So that's the way that my um sort of interest, I'm, you know, kind of not trying to be like everyone else. And I kind of want to go where everyone is not. So it's kind of like a complete free-for-all in that like there's no one doing what I'm doing for better or for worse. And so it's just completely wide open. And, you know, I think it's like this is kind of what interests me, and I'm trying to share that um enthusiasm and passion with with everybody else because I think there's a lot of people that there's a lot of new people to golf that, you know, never got exposed to this era of of clubs and the the look, the feel, the sound, like all of that stuff. There's kind of a a generation that's been bypassed.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, because everybody now is used to the the latest driver by whatever manufacturer, and it's gonna have that kind of same kind of sound like you were describing with the what you have with those clubs, and and you know, everything is super forgiving and many of the irons and stuff. And so what is it like to go back and play? And and you're kind enough to to provide Jonathan and I. We we are representing uh our friends from Fairway and Green at a persimmon blades event the Monday after the Masters. So what is it like? What should we expect? Because it has been a while since I've hit these type of clubs. What should we expect going back to uh the clubs that you're providing us?

SPEAKER_01

Uh you know, I think I think it's not as um it's not as dramatic as you think. I mean in round numbers, you could say that the distance is rough with the woods at least, is I'd say round numbers 10% at the most. So it's not, you know, I'm assuming whatever event, you're not gonna have it tipped out at 7,200 yards. So it's the distance is really not um gonna be, you know, a huge handicap. The irons, the main difference is the lofts are uh hugely um, you know, probably uh at least at least one club, if not. two clubs weaker in loft. So that's a that's a big difference. And I I I find just the the weight of the woods uh is you know the clubs are much shorter, most of them 43, 43 and a half for for a driver at the most. But just the you know we're talking of like 10 10, 120 gram steel shafts, um which is you know essentially like double what uh you know using a lot longer shaft in in a modern club. But um yeah so the the timing and the tempo of it is uh you kind of is is slightly slightly different in that it's it's not uh it's not nearly as quick or um you kind of have to have to wait a bit because you're swinging a a a heavier club.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well I I'm excited about it and you know I my buddy Trevor Larson had at a persimmon uh driver because he's doing that with Larson Golf Company and had one when we were together back in late September and and got to hit it and you know he said you got to swing smooth right you can't overpower these things. So I think I'm excited one because I think you know if you practice with these things, correct me if I'm wrong, will it help tempo? Like if you're having a really concentrate on your tempo uh and your smoothness of swing would it then translate to when you go back to your your current models of stuff?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah a hundred percent I mean the the bottom line is that it's contingent on you to find the center of the face. And if you can find the center of the face with a persimmon then you can do it with anything. You know there's there's no there's no two ways about it. I mean that that's where you know I mentioned like the the difference in distance is you know that's that's contingent on assuming a center hit. If you hit it out on the heel the toe it's going to be considerably less forgiving but you know in in my my estimation just like the written the the sort of gratification or like fun of hitting a really well struck shot just really that level is just a lot higher than you kind of feel like a sense of accomplishment and um you know I I'm at the point now where I haven't played with a set of modern clubs in a few years. So really I was gonna ask that okay yeah I mean because I I kinda I I mean I have got like a tailor-made M1 driver which is you know eight generations old now which is a whole nother sort of topic of conversation but I'm at the point where all my golf is with you know these clubs so it's all sort of like what you're used to like I at this point I don't necessarily I don't know any difference. So the heads don't look small like this is this is just kind of like standard fare for me at this point. So yeah I mean I I think there's nothing there's no there's no harm and like I said these clubs can be bought so inexpensively compared to modern gear they they're everywhere. I mean I I literally I've got one garage full I could literally have probably four or five garage fulls if I had the time money and and space.

SPEAKER_00

I mean this more garages yeah yeah this stuff is out there um it's it's not hard to it's not so w when you go and find this thing and let's say you found something you're ready to buy like what are you doing when it arrives? Like what's your I say cleanup process if there's any kind of restoration are you doing this work on regripping and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah yeah I mean that was kind of like so that was kind of like I kind of got to the goal of um that I had originally set out to was which was to have a hundred sets of clubs. So you know it was kind of like good news bad news I got I I bought up like a massive collection um a few hours for me I drove up with a bar to buddy suburban had to make a second trip in my normal car um I mean it was wild to fill fill a suburban full of um vintage clubs but like you said it was like I got to that point where I had all these clubs but they were all you know sort of mothballed for for years and you know that was kind of like right when COVID hit so it wasn't terrible timing in that you know the amount of hours that I've spent um just hacking off like dry rotted green victory grips. You know I have a Scotch bright pad on a on a buffing wheel paint filling irons kind of I I'm you know like Trevor uh John Hayes or there's all these guys that sort of refinish woods. I like I have a a modicum of ability there but I kind of just I can lightly refresh some woods because I don't need them to be in concourse condition for my purposes. Actually have to re-whip some a set of clubs that I just gave a late a light scuff and a couple coats of poly that they were generally in pretty good shape. So I'll do that later tonight. So yeah so I mean so I probably over the span of you know probably a year or two will probably re-grip the better part of 1500 clubs something like that all cleaned them up I have shaft labels that say retro golf that are on them like just labeling all the shafts like everything just with a one man operation everything just yeah takes a lot of are you putting grips that would be familiar to people from that time or are you putting like the modern golf bride stuff on there? Yeah basically mod because unfortunately a lot of the a lot of the vintage stuff is like exorbitantly expensive that also coincided with COVID when um like there was a grip shortage so um I was just basically um getting on whatever uh whatever I could get my hands on um yeah that that wasn't uh that wasn't a ton of dough.

SPEAKER_00

So you're renting these things out kind of one at a time or for big tournaments if people want to put on events, things like that. So talk to us about that process and like kind of the the territory that you would cover or where you might ship these things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah so it's kind of a it's not necessarily like a one size fits all like say later later this month later in April there's a club in New Jersey that's having centennials so that's relatively close by. They only need like half dozen sets I'm gonna bring over uh an extra bag with some one irons which most people you know that's kind of like seeing Bigfoot at at this point like people don't know what you know they they've they've heard of it but they don't you know they don't know what it actually looks like. So yeah so that's kind of an easy one but yeah I I've got so many clubs that I you know there's people that use them for contests for remember events whether it's like long drive stuff or um you know whether it's putters, wedges, got a massive collection of like zebra butters that I'm working on I'm working on kind of recreating the sole plates on um hoping some 3D printing can help me make my own custom version. But um but yeah so I mean but if you're at say Westchester Country Club or something like that, I've got enough clubs where I can outfit the entire field. No one has to share clubs. Basically they're I've got left-handed stuff all the righty is either broken down by just by shaft flex so I've got medium stiff I've got a couple X X Flex clubs. Um but yeah so it is sort of geography limited in that I'm kind of in metro New York area so it because it's limited somewhat because um the shipping of the clubs is is really there's no sort of inexpensive way um to do it. I don't have like a I don't have like a freight account um I just kind of have all these clubs are just like conspicuously stored in like a residential standalone garage. It's not it's not like a real FedEx hub or something like that. It would be great to do that. But um so yeah so kind of Pennsylvania mid-Atlantic anywhere that's kind of feasible to drive I mean I certainly can ship stuff it's just um just makes things uh a lot a lot more expensive yeah I get that what what's the goal what do you hope let's say three years five five years from now what do you hope retro golf club has become that's a that's a great question actually because the answer I give today is very different than say five years ago that you know at at this point my goals have shifted in that I really just want to um I'm really like I said I I think of myself as like a crusader and I really just want I want these clubs to be played. I I think that there's no I'm really trying to change the perception that that these clubs have a a huge place in golf history that you know there's a massive movement in golf um clubs right now regarding like architecture and you know kind of restoring architecture to its original intent. Well if your club was designed when these clubs were around then you know it doesn't make sense to me to go out there with modern equipment where I can you know kind of overpower the intent of the architect. It just doesn't you know if a lot of these clubs if you're playing you know 6500 yard clubs or less like one of my favorite places is uh there's close by to me is this you know relatively it's maybe a maybe a hair it might be 3,000 yards a nine hole or if I go and play with my modern set I'm gonna play with like four clubs in my bag. That's like who am I who am I proving anything to that I can hit a drive and a pitch to this short course? Like what there's there's to me there's limited fun in that like it's it's incongruent with you know how the club was how the holes were designed how to you know kind of mothball your long irons doesn't make sense to me. So yeah so I mean I I really am just trying to kind of share my point of view and because all this club is all these clubs are out there it doesn't require it it completely eliminates the stub factor in that you know there's so much of this club champion esque stuff where you go and spend thousands of dollars well I can you know like hey Robbie you said you need some clubs you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna send them to you like no big deal like I'm not you know it's like I can do that because you know anyone of any means can literally grab the best clubs of this era. There's no there's you know for a couple hundred bucks you can you can buy that 1980 Corvette 1980 Porsche 911 like Mercedes 560 SEC it's available to everyone so um and it just so happens that the clubs are you know they're great to look at they're super fun to play and if you just kind of like step off the you know the the modern sort of hamster wheel of you know clubs that are changing every every other year is I mean that's the thing like when people of this era when they found clubs that they liked Jack Nicholas didn't regrip his three wood for I don't know 30 some odd years. Like if you found something that worked like you didn't switch unless it necessarily broke. So that's like so contrary to modern golf no one sort of questions it's just kind of like assumed so you know if I can kind of say hey there's another option and it's not the only option but it's something that you know you could you can dabble into if it's it's for you great. If it's not then you know you're not out like thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah no I'm excited about when they arrive and getting out and playing around with them. You know you talk about just the game and having fun and stop worrying about score and just enjoy the experiences and I think these types of clubs are going to provide a whole new level of experience and a lot more fun because you're trying something different. You're doing something unique you're not like maybe your buddy that's got the latest greatest and bombing everything and then it'll be a whole lot more fun to then it'll be a lot more fun to beat them right.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely I mean I think and also it's like if you played your home course a hundred times or something like that, you have a pretty good expectation of what may or may not happen. And with these clubs that's the cool part is going to some of these clubs that have had had events and expectations are just kind of like completely level they people generally speaking don't know what's going to happen. So it's pretty cool to be able to play like a you know place that you're very very familiar with and just come just see what show yeah see what shows up.

SPEAKER_00

I think it would be fun and you know they're talking a ton about how they're gonna redo some of the PGA tour schedule and stuff. Can you imagine if they said all right we're doing a retro golf event at whatever course they want to pick and they can go back some of these old school tracks that they're not able to play anymore kind of you're describing they're not you know they don't have to tiger proof it or whatever lengthen that they do it but everybody has to show up using persimmons and blades and you are there to verify that what they brought is actually legit. I think that would be a fun tour event just to see the best in the world take this equipment and go out there and and show that golf can still be fun.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah a thousand percent I mean it would be equally interesting just to find out what everyone chose to play with. Yeah I mean that would that would be like must watch TV right like if they had even even 90s tournament week even even if it wasn't a tour event even if you know that they kind of rehashed this sort of the match a million times over and it's like very not very compelling to watch but like even doing you know some sort of nine hole match or something like that would actually provide like a great reason to sort of tune in um to something like that. Yeah thousand percent I mean these guys are the best players in the world they don't they don't need like the most forgiving clubs to be playing with they they can find the center of anything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah let's not roll the ball back let's give them old clubs.

SPEAKER_01

Piece of cake yeah I mean you know uh unfortunately unfortunately there's not a lot of money being made marketing um you know equipment that um are in people's um attics and uh in garages so I I I can't imagine that you know the the titleists or callays of the world would you know would be ecstatic about that. But I mean you know to that end um in Sacramento last year I play a lot of pickleball now and they had a wooden paddle event where everyone played with the same wooden paddles and the world didn't end. I mean they went back they played one week that way and celebrated the the heritage of you know when it was created like 60 some odd years ago. Yeah I mean it it makes too much sense.

SPEAKER_00

Makes too much sense well a lot of things make sense that never happened so well I I really think what you're doing yeah I I think what you're doing is really cool and I'm excited to get my hands on some retro golf clubs and go play around with them.

SPEAKER_01

So uh fascinating stuff you're in great company the gu the guys I know Robert and Buck who are organizing the event played nine holes at Athens Country Club with them in in the fall last year it was like I was in town for for work and it was so so so fun to be able to play nine holes with two guys that I never met in person with you know 40, 50 year old equipment um that they provided for me at a classic course. Yeah I mean everyone's so I played an event last two Saturdays ago in Virginia Beach. I met these guys that that host the Persimmon Blade event and it was just so fun. Everyone like everyone brought an extra at least one bag of extra gear. We went to the range one night where basically you could go and hit anything that anyone brought was up for grabs to hit on the range. It was just like a complete something that it was so fun. So I'm sure you'll have a blast.

SPEAKER_00

Well you know golf is uh the best part of golf is is hanging out with people especially meeting those strangers for the first time and enjoying this game together. So I think what you're doing is really cool. As we uh I guess as we start to wrap up let me ask you a few random questions. Uh if you've listened to the podcast you might know what's coming but the first one we like to ask everybody is what's the story of your most memorable golf shot?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I I was actually listening to Clark's episode um over over the weekend and I was like I don't I don't necessarily have a specific shot but back when I was working as a assistant pro um I typically would play with you know members fairly frequently on on the weekends and a particular group of guys that uh I played with a number of times they were like my good luck charm. These guys were just they weren't great players by any means. They really weren't terribly competitive on club events, but they just had the best sense of humor and this one year I think we played maybe twice prior to playing in this pro am and each time I think I shot 67 one round 68 the other round and the club where I was at was hosting this Westchester uh golf association pro am like guys we got to play in the pro am like and and you know so I ended up ended up winning the the pro am I my folks ended up driving down from Western Mass and they came and uh yeah I was like probably like it was like my only professional win of play with these guys were just so fun to play with. It was just like an amazing experience all the way around. And it was actually kind of like it was it was really interesting for me because at that time I was working as as professional and took things a lot more seriously and looking back on it like it just goes to show when you're playing with people that you like, when you're having a good time joking around that that has like serious implications as far as like how play and that you know um you know really was really meaningful for me. And um you know I think finally back on we moved to the condo we're at now I have like a small clock my wife is like what what the hell is that I was like hey I'm like this this is not being thrown out like this is you know one of my my cherished golf uh victories.

SPEAKER_00

It tells a tells a great story for sure. Yeah very nice well if you did watch the episode with Clark you know it's coming next we do a quick nine right so sure nine quick questions so and you can expound on them as much as you want but what's the favorite course that you've ever played you know I've play I've been fortunate in the circumstances you know working around golf for a long time I've played a lot of you know top-notch golf but just going against the grain as usual my favorite track is actually this nine holer in New Hampshire that's just over the Vermont border it was in the book that I read a long time ago on Nine Holers.

SPEAKER_01

It's called Hooper Golf Course. It's just this amazing story it's kind of like an untouched Van Cleeken style design that probably I think about 10 years ago the they had financial troubles and about 30 people from the town pitched in and saved the saved the course and it kind of famously was in like Tom Doak's confidential guide. Over the years they've I typically play there at least once or so once or twice a year. And it's it's just so much fun to play. It's very cheap to play it's I think it's thirty dollars um to play I've always just kind of shown up and gotten paired with whomever the course is just so fun design it's like it it just epitomizes like New England. It's very no frills um there's no range they've been keep steadily improving the condition of the course all the people that I've played with have been super warm friendly told me a ton of history about the course and for my taste it's you know chef yes it's I wish there I wish it wasn't like three hours away from me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah well it's a lot farther from us that that area of the of the country is somewhere that we really want to get up and play some golf so maybe we'll add that to the list. You've referenced this book twice. What book are you talking about by chance? Do you remember the name?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah the the author's name is Anthony Piappi yeah the finest nines finest Nines. I can't I'm I can't remember if that's the first one or the second one, but he wrote two books on nine holers and they're both very, very good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So we uh we produce a podcast for Nate Oxman called That's Good Pick It Up, where he's been talking to some of these authors and he talked to Anthony Piappi about that book. And so he did a little uh we did a little three-parter for his podcast there. So uh very nice. That's uh that's a good one. Highly recommend.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of a lot of kind of like hidden gems in in in that book.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. All right. Well, what is the course at the top of your bucket list?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I could keeping on the theme of the nine holers, the one that I haven't played, that's kind of widely considered the kind of the top one that's in in the country, New Englandish, is called, I think if I pronounce it right, it's called Whittensville. It's kind of kind of in the central mass area. And uh I haven't haven't got out there and it I it's you know widely considered um kind of the the the top of the list or and or there's one out in Indiana um at a prep school, Culver Academies, um, looks amazing too. So um I don't know. I'm kind of on a on a nine-hole um bender. Um that's that's where my hole is are they're great. That's where my sort of you know, sort of gravitate to.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, you mentioned a course uh that not many people know about uh when you said your favorite, but is there another course out there? Uh the question is, what's your favorite course that no one knows about? Is there something else that kind of some hidden gem that people need to pay attention to?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there's one, there's one up the coast of Connecticut that I I'm like shocked that I never got around to playing up until fairly recently, called Fenwick Golf Course. It's a it's a town course, it's right on the water. It's just kind of like this kind of seaside nine-holer, again, fairly reasonably to play. Wines has a very unusual routing kind of through people's like backyards and neighborhoods, and it's it's kept up really well. The architecture is is very interesting. There's a lot of fun holes out there. Um, it's it's cost is is you know, probably $40, $50 in season, something like that. Um and uh yeah, it doesn't, it's it kind of flies, flies under the radar. Um it's really, really just like a great setting, just a relaxing place to play.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. Add that to the list.

SPEAKER_01

All right, who's in your uh your dream force and oh man, you know, I'm I referenced my dad, so I mean I played, you know, hundreds of rounds with him. So it is probably probably probably probably very part of the reason that I don't play as much anymore is you know, I played with him so often when when he was alive and he was a member at a at a club in um in Western Mass up by UMass. And um, yeah, so I mean, so he certainly would be in there. Back when I was working as as a pro, I took a seminar in um kind of like Daytona Beach area of Florida. And it turned out that the the person putting on the seminar was Craig Shankland, and unbeknownst to me on signing up, the guest of the seminar was Mo Norman. Wow. So in the I think it was about 1997, I got a chance to, you know, watch him hit balls for two days. And I mean, uh, every sort of description that you sort of hear online, like describing it, um, you know, from from him sort of like narrating the whole time while talking, just hitting balls at a divot, like I I've never seen anything like that. And uh like he certainly, he certainly would be on on the list of, you know, he he would they would make a fun foresome for sure. You know, beyond that, probably uh, you know, probably my college buddy, my buddy Mike Wall, that uh grew up in New England, that you know, we traveled um uh traveled out to Michigan uh a million times. We played all over the country together. Um he's out in Indiana now, so I don't don't um see him or or get a chance to play with him much. So I I'd throw Mike in there.

SPEAKER_00

That'd be a good group. All right. Uh what is your favorite snack at the turn?

SPEAKER_01

I'd have to go. I'm a big fan of like anything beef beef jerky related. So that would be that would be my number one option.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you playing all these nine hole courses, there are not too many turns at nine hole courses.

unknown

No.

SPEAKER_00

Before before and after, I guess. Yep. Exactly it. All right. Uh favorite golf course logo?

SPEAKER_01

Um I mean that's kind of like one of my hidden skills is um, you know, I I deal with this like all the time with um golf course logos, so for my for my day job. So I'm very, very partial to the retro golf logo just because it's so sort of it's just in a in a style that is so different that strikes me as just very unserious. Kind of where I got it was from one of my favorite um restaurants in New York City is the Grand Central Oyster Bar. Um that's in the in the lower level of um of Grand Central. So essentially I've borrowed the the style for that logo um with the with the retro golf logo. So I have to uh I have to give them the the the hat tip um for uh for for that.

SPEAKER_00

I'm giving the self sands. There you go. Well you borrowed it and used it well. Um you might not have been a avid pro shop purchaser since uh you've been in the business, but do you have a favorite pro shop purchase? You mentioned the clock that you won, but is there something like memorable that you've you've purchased at a club?

SPEAKER_01

Not not terribly, no. I mean, I I'm really kind of like very basic in that, you know, I'm kind of just grabbing a white navy blue hat type of type of thing with the club logo.

SPEAKER_00

Um another another white hat, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I've got you know, I've got enough clothing for probably you know uh a whole entire baseball teams that's not typically on on my list of things to shop.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. All right. Well I'm fascinated uh by what your answer might be to this. What is one thing golfers should do?

SPEAKER_01

Hmm. Should do. In what regard? Anything?

SPEAKER_00

Any regard any regard. It's it's kind of a vague open-ended question. So we've gotten a lot of different responses. It's been it's been fun.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I think if I were to give an answer to this, I would say there's kind of like a I think there's a lot of groupthink within the golf space and kind of like once someone, you know, kind of does something, it's very sort of easy to kind of, you know, grab a a kind of pile on type of thing. So, you know, I I think I think think looking at things differently is basically all that all that I've done. And I'm not saying that that is is the only way, but you know, I I think that it helps to kind of take a step back um from, you know, I guess if I if I take it another way, I I think that golfers are the most gullible sportsmen in that like they will there's no end to the amount of money that people will spend on, you know, equipment the next phase, yeah. You know, training aids to gain an extra, you know, mile an hour, think that, you know, that working out deep doing deep knee bends is somehow going to help their games type of thing. So, you know, I I I just kind of advocate that um there's a lot of ways to do it and that um kind of whatever your you know whatever your cronies are doing is is not the only way.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Great answer. All right, final one. Finish this sentence. The best part of golf is.

SPEAKER_01

You know, golf is like to me is like the ultimate. Um say that again, I'm sorry. No, the the best part of golf is is that it's the ultimate test of yourself. And you know, I I played in the event last two weeks ago, and it was the first 18 whole I've been playing nine whole rounds, which we've kind of alluded to. 13 to 18 whole round that um that uh I played in probably like three years. So um to me, golf is just like a test of like your I I kind of had to really put away thoughts of like what to do with my swing. Obviously wasn't going to change. I kind of had had to stick to the sort of plan and kind of just stay within what was theoretically feasible. It was a little bit of a curveball, kind of getting down there and like discovering that in Virginia Beach was all um Bermuda grass, which is is a little different for someone up where I live. But yeah, so I mean I I ended up everything kind of came out like I'd kind of hoped to. So I kind of felt like I passed the sort of mental test of myself. I don't necessarily think that that's mandatory, but that's just me. And I think it's kind of no matter what level you're at that you can sort of um sort of adopt thinking about things and that you can there's always, you know, whether it's a test of your attitude, whether it's a test of how much fun you had, whether it's a test of trying to not fix your swing mid-round or you know, have a million thoughts. So golf is kind of like an endless amount of tests of yourself. And, you know, just like the the persimmon woods, like no one's gonna do it for you. Like you you have to do it for yourself.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Well, Corey, this has been uh a lot of fun, man. Getting to know you, learning more about Retro Golf Club. Tell uh tell everybody where they can find out more about Retro Golf Club.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I've got uh I've got a fairly basic website, which contrary to the you know millions of people on LinkedIn that reach out to me, there's nothing you can buy on on retrogolfclub.com. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm pretty active on uh on Instagram posting all the sort of um trials and tribulations, working on clubs, um different videos that that I've got. Um and I've kind of become like a clearinghouse for I kind of know everyone that is like Trevor or um, you know, there's a couple guys, a few guys down in North Carolina that refinish woods, John Hayes up in Boston, kind of all that sort of all that sort of thing. So Instagram's probably the best way. And you know, I I've got I don't not really actively I mean the these clubs find me, so occasionally I'm kind of offloading some extra stuff, but I can certainly point people in the right direction as far as what to do, brand suggestions or or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I would definitely say you are the expert in all things uh personas and blades in this era of golf. So we'll put links in the show notes. Uh that way people can find you. Yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun chatting with you, learn more about what you do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I I I can't wait to uh to hear. Definitely, you know, when the clubs show up, definitely, you know, take them out, give them a whirl, and uh Absolut. Uh yeah, you I'll be the one thing that you definitely want to do is play with the highest spinning ball that you can find.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So you definitely don't want like the left dash pro V. You want whatever there's a million options, but you want the highest spinning option.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we will uh we will find out for sure how these things work and how we can work with them. So Corey, thank you for Corey and Retro Golf Club. This is Robbie. You guys have been listening to another episode of the Whole Story Podcast.

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Jonathan Hill

Co-host
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Robby Woodard

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