Can a Headcover Tell a Story? | Marc Hanson of Bluetross

In this episode, Mark Hanson shares his journey from Navy service to crafting high-quality leather golf accessories. Discover how his passion for craftsmanship and strategic branding has created a unique niche in the golf industry. In this episode, Marc Hanson shares his journey through leather craftsmanship, his favorite golf courses, and memorable shots, offering insights into the passion and community that make golf special.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We're quickly becoming one of those five year overnight sensations, I feel like. We're on the cusp of it.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Whole Story Podcast. Uh Jonathan?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

We're in the same room. We're in the same room. I don't think we've done maybe two or three shows. We did one in my uh rec room. Yeah. We did one with John.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Uh we've done some a couple live shows with this, but yeah, so uh here we are in the uh the Palacio Studios uh in Columbia, South Carolina, also known as uh an office uh and uh junk room, maybe. Um, but it at least it looks like it's behind us. Um but yeah, we had a great chat today with Mark Hansen of Blue Tross Golf talking about incredible head covers. These things are amazing. Uh, but I think even better story is Mark and his wife that are doing uh doing this great thing from their garage. All right, another business that is crushing it from the garage of their house. So uh a lot of fun. What'd you what'd you think? I know you you know you just saw this first you sent us in your comments, which uh look at you smelling.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

It's it's so good. I just I you know I've got uh one or two score cards, and you kind of forget, you're like, whatever, that's no big deal. And I'm looking at this going, I'm gonna carry this every time I play golf now. One, because it's got our logo on it. I'm pretty excited about being able to customize it that way, but then also just a good quality. And I have a leather wallet that a buddy of mine made that was closer, a little bit lighter than this, and turned so dark just from the oils from your hand. So I can't wait to see how it ages. Uh, and then a better story of uh a guy who spent 22 years serving the United States and all of us in the Navy, and then taking sort of a little passion project and turning it into something that again, I have no idea how to be creative and or use the equipment or machinery. So whenever we find people like this, I'm always enthralled because like I wouldn't even know where to begin other than like poking myself with with needles, but yeah, incredible work. Um, even a better person, as you'll get to hear, and uh just a good storyteller too.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah, and there's a uh combined share, not uh shared answers not only in golf but uh old barnwell and the people and the missions behind that. So y'all are will enjoy uh what Mark's doing, and you'll hear he gives a discount code for anybody listening to the podcast. I'll wait and let you hear it uh uh during the interview for those that if you go to his site and you get it off of everything, right? Like fill up the shopping cart and you'll get, I think, 15% off everything. So thankful for Mark, thankful for uh a mutual friend now, Mike Sullivan, who introduced us again. That was another connection to Old Barnwell that um yeah, pointing us to to people doing good stuff in the game. Um, as always, we are brought to you by our friends at Semitolf brands. We are both rocking some Bee Drady shirts. We got a zero restriction vest here. Uh, love what these guys do. And again, speaking of discount codes, if you use Best Ball20 at any of their sites, you can get 20% off to look as good as Jonathan here.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Well, uh, you'll look better, but uh you still get 20% off of looking better.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

You'll get 20% off. Uh, and we're working, hopefully. Uh maybe soon we'll have some best ball gear that we can uh that we can offer up, folks. So anyway, Mark Hansen, Blue Tross Golf. Y'all enjoy this episode. All right, joining us today on the whole store, Mr. Mark Hanson of Blue Tross. How are you doing, sir? Good, how are you? Thanks for having me. Absolutely. And uh, as we said, this is this is a rare occasion that Jonathan and I are actually in the same room, but uh we we thought for a guest like you with uh with what you are doing, this this uh warranted us coming together. One, Jonathan really wanted to get uh the incredible things that you uh you shared with us, but uh but yeah, so no. Thank you for uh thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Oh, thanks. I again thanks for having me. I'm I'm uh honored and and excited, and yeah, it's uh let's do it.

unknown 4:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

You're just south of here in Charleston, South Carolina, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Correct, yeah. I'm in Charleston, South Carolina. Uh moved back here in 20 November of 2017. I was stationed here twice while I was in the Navy. So yeah, it's my third time in Charleston. Uh but yeah, we uh we're kind of it's technically North Daniel Island. We're not on Daniel Island or in the the development itself, but we're on that spit of land, it's called Caneway or something like that. So yeah, kind of pretty central to everything. Can't get anywhere without going on a bridge, just hoping it doesn't rain. So traffic doesn't look like uh San Diego where I moved here from. So yeah, all good.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Are you still active duty navy?

SPEAKER_02 5:06

No, no, no. I retired in 2014, so I uh I I guess I can give you that brief quick background. It uh it's kind of relevant. Uh so I enlisted when I was uh 22 back in the early 90s, and then uh went to boot camp in Orlando, Florida. Uh that base is closed, and then came here to Charleston for uh nuclear power training for the hands-on portion of it. Did pretty well, got asked to stay for a couple years, a staff did that. My oldest son was born here and then uh did a submarine in Kings Bay, Georgia for a couple years, and then got picked up for an officer program, and they said I could go to the Citadel or South Carolina, which was a pretty easy choice. I didn't like wearing a uniform or marching, so I went to Carolina and then uh graduated in 2000 and then uh went to Newport Island for six months, then to Norfolk on a frigate, back to Charleston for a year for the Austrian nuclear power pipeline, back to Norfolk for two years. And I went to back to University of South Carolina and taught for two and a half, three years of the ROC unit, which is still the best, definitely the best three years of my naval career, might be the best three years of my life in general. Uh you know, when you when you measure it all against it, and then uh went back to Newport Island for a summer for another school, then to San Diego, and then I was in San Diego for nine years and then ended up retiring in San Diego.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

So I love it. Well, uh Yo Game Conox won. Go Conox. Yeah, yeah, but uh more importantly, thanks for uh thanks for your service.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Oh, you know, I appreciate that. I never know what to say because honestly, and uh back when I joined, I uh used to have a way to pay for my car and I didn't have a girlfriend. I'd I I was ten in bar, I was uh uh wannabe professional bowler who didn't quite make it, and uh, you know, so I I needed a job and originally joined to save enough money to open a bar back home in six years, and then had a kid and life got in the way and ended up doing 22. So yeah, it's uh it's amazing that it's been 12 years since I since I left. So yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yep. Well, you uh you kind of share that story uh and somewhere in there, uh golf had to become part of it, right? Like you you maybe played it the whole time and that just wasn't a highlight that you know, or maybe that came later.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

No, it's funny. My dad, uh I don't know how he did it. Uh I have two two sons, and they're there's a significant gap between them. Uh my oldest is 31, and he loved the game, loved playing, and and uh then he moved with his mom after we got divorced when he was young, and so his stepdad was a great guy, his stepdad's a great guy, his mom's a great woman, and uh he was a professional soccer player, so my my kid kind of started playing soccer. And then my youngest, uh, he's 15, he just didn't really take to it. But my dad somehow, when I was six and my brother was four, uh had the patience to take two young kids out and teach us the game. And you know, my dad started kind of late in life at golf. I think he was in his late teens or early twenties, and and he and my grandpa and and my uh uncle used to go out and play all the time. And then uh when my parents got divorced, my dad ended up moving to this apartment complex in Indiana where where we lived, where we're from, they had an executive golf course. And so, you know, we'd spend every other weekend with my dad, and and like from April to October, like that was just when we got to play golf. Like that was something we looked forward to. And if it was raining, you know, we were sad, and and you know, we we weren't very good, obviously, but and we're fighting over who gets to ride in the cart or who gets to drive the cart, and you know, all the stuff now that when I see, like when I was with taking my youngest out, you know, all the stuff that just kind of was like, uh, you know, kid, you just gotta do what I say here, right? Like, I don't know how my dad did that, especially back in the in the early, you know, the mid-70s. Um, but you know, I when we got a little older, he's like, you know, look, I I knew I wasn't very good. He goes, but I knew if there was one thing I could teach you that would be successful, help you be successful in life as you got older, it would be knowing how to play golf already if you went into business. And so uh he was very prophetic in that regard. Um, my brother is very, very successful in business. I've done okay in life. Um you know, Blue Choss is gaining a lot of momentum, so about to become pretty successful in business, I feel like. But uh he was absolutely right. And so, you know, this is actually, I was thinking about this is my 50th year of playing golf, my 50th summer of golf, uh, thanks to my dad. And, you know, my dad, my brother, my dad doesn't play anymore. He's he just turned 80, and we went back to Indiana for his birthday. And all I want to do is watch my brother and I play around in golf. So we went back to uh back home to Indiana, and it was funny. My when I was in high school, my dad married a lady and they moved on to this really nice golf course in town. And we had a house on the 6T, but we weren't members, so we would just watch people playing it all the time, and then seems like a probably a year and a half after I left for the Navy, they joined the golf course, right? And so now, you know, my brother is two years younger, so he gets to play all the time. But you know, I'm out of the house and I've got a wife and a kid by this point, right? Uh I get married at 22, I have a kid at 24. And uh, you know, so I would go back and play a lot, and uh I ran up such big bills on my dad's tab, uh, you know, for the time. And then after 9-11, I my brother and I used to alternate who went back home, each year to play the member guest with my dad. And after 9-11, you know, the the pro asked me to come in uniform, which I was like, okay, uh, I'm not a big spotlight guy. So, and you know, I get there and he's like, Hey, I I'm gonna call you up, I need you to make a speech. And I'm like, Oh, Jesus Christ, right? So, like, uh, and he had told my dad uh right before I got there that they had passed a bylaw that uh any kid, any child of a member who was active duty military didn't pay for anything except food when they were home. And there was no age limit. So I'm 35 going home, and I'm playing, you know, if I go home for a week, I'm playing eight rounds of golf and carts and range balls, and well, you don't pay for range balls, but all that. And you know, I just looked probably like, I don't think anybody's happier about this than than Ray, who's my dad. Like, you just save my dad like five grand a year from when I come home, right? So um, and and they still have that going on, and it's nice, and so yeah, it just kind of kind of gone from there, and it golf's been a huge part of my life the entire time. And you know, my brother and I, when we when we get together, there's always golf involved. So it's uh it's been the gift of a lifetime for my dad.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Somewhere in between officer training, nuclear uh launch codes, and uh professor at US reactors, not missiles, reactors. I ran of the things that are that you're not pushing buttons, you're actually pushing the buttons that make the buttons work when someone does push them.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Uh I'm I'm making uh we made the steam that shot the pilots off the front end of the ship. That's that's what my job was. And we generated the electricity and the air conditioning and uh you know uh made the water and all that stuff for for the ship to run. So the the unsung heroes of any uh any ship are the the folks down in what I call the pit uh running the the engineering plant to make the power and the water and the heat and the lights and all that and keep it running. So no glory, just a lot of work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

So somewhere in the middle of that, while you're hot bunking it, you decided that you were gonna start making leather goods?

SPEAKER_02 13:18

No, no, no, no. That that happened after, way after. So uh it's kind of funny. So over here, if you see that uh Pepsi flag that's on the top there, uh that was kind of the impetus for the whole company. Uh in 2000, so summer 2000, I get commissioned. Uh, my first school is in Newport, Rhode Island. It's a six-month school. He sent me there for the summer. There's no better place to be in the United States from Memorial Day to Labor Day than Newport, Rhode Island. I'll I'll fight people, I'll die on that hill. That place is just the best place in the world to be. And my brother had just started with Pepsi a couple years prior, and he was living in uh Cranston, which is Providence basically. And so uh we played a lot of golf that summer, and Pepsi used to sponsor an event for Johnson Wales University at Newport Country Club. And so my brother and I we grew up drinking Pepsi, and uh, you know, at one point we had a Pepsi machine uh in the business my dad worked for, you know, my dad had with my uncle, and then that lady my dad married had restaurants, so we had like a little Pepsi tap in the house, you know, very fortunate. So Pepsi's always been like the brand for us, and so he gave me that flag, and I moved it back and forth across the country several times, and then in 2020 during COVID, you know, he's still at Pepsi. So now it's 20, 20 some years later. He's a senior executive, and he's an impossible guy to get a Christmas present for or any gift for that matter. And at the time, you know, on Instagram, a popular thing was send your stuff in, and people make like a shamus barrel type head cover, right? And so I thought, oh, that would be unique, right? Like they could take the the circle part of the logo and make that on the top, and then figure something else to do with the rest of it, right? And um so I got some quotes and I was like, I started college as an art major, only had to quit because I can't draw or paint. I I think I can figure this out, right? So my wife, uh wife, pulled out her mom's sewing machine that she inherited. It was like 55, 60 years old. Go to Join Fabrics, get some fabric to practice on before I cut up this flag, and uh I literally destroyed that thing in like three hours, like uh unfixable, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Sewing machine or the flag sewing machine, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

So I mean no, flag's slowing up, nothing ever happened. It's slowing up here. Um so then go back to Joanna, uh cheap little sewing machine and you know, practice and then showing stuff to my friends. I was a member at the annual island club at the time here in Charleston, and you know, they're giving me feedback, and then I start making some samples for them, and then somebody asked if I could make what I call the oven mitts, right? Just the regular style, and I was like, sure. So I I started like I'll give it a shot. So I bought some scrap leather from someplace in Missouri online and started with that, excuse me, and then that little sewing machine. I didn't like how small the thread was, so I bought a bigger sewing machine. And then uh probably a couple months after that, somebody asked me if I was looking for a partner, and I was like, oh, apparently I'm on to something here. And so uh went with that, and it was just a it was basically just a hobby through COVID, right? It was something that I liked doing. Um you know, like I said, I started as an art major in college. My family, so when I was in high school, my senior high school, I would go to school like eight to eleven, I'd leave school, I'd drive to my family's screen printing business, I'd stop on the way, hit a bucket of balls at the range on the way there, go to work, I'd get to work at one, and I would do artwork till five. I was doing the layout artwork and stuff for printing stuff. And so at that point in time, my family was my dad and uncle's business was doing stuff for every hardware wholesaler's hardware store across the country, ace hardware basically. So all the stuff that hung up in the banners and stuff that hung up in the store, you know, I was laying out all the artwork for that. I was shooting film, developing film, shooting screens, doing everything but printing it basically, just because they had people that did that. And so wanted to be an art major and like being creative. And then it was just kind of a way for me to, you know, kind of be creative and get away from my day job, which I was in the healthcare field during COVID. So it wasn't really uh a great time to be in healthcare. I mean, don't get me wrong, I was one of the people in healthcare where COVID actually wasn't that bad because my customers basically just said, hey, we'll call you, just leave us alone. So uh I mean it's been three, four years since I left that job. So I can say not, but I played a lot of golf during COVID, just a ton of golf. Um and uh, you know, still did great at my job, uh, but uh my job was basically just putting out fires for people for pharmacies that you know something was happening with their stuff and they couldn't uh couldn't distribute the medications properly. And so yeah, it was it just was a COVID hobby and then it kind of became a side hustle. And then uh as corporate America is uh known to do, there was a a big reorganization every September or so. And after the last one that I was there for uh uh they said that you know this reorganization, they decided they wanted somebody who did what I did for the federal government, and that was customer success. So after everything went in and was installed, then I went in to help them optimize their equipment and get the most out of it. And uh the federal sales team uh wanted somebody like me, and even though it wasn't really a good fit because of the version of software the government was on, um and so I went from having four or five great customers across the country and three, four hundred hospitals I was responsible for to uh all federal healthcare. So Department of Defense, VA, Bureau of Prisons, National Institute of Health, CDC, Red Cross, you name it, right? And uh there wasn't really anything where I could add value, and it became just uh a slog. And so finally, um in uh January of uh 24, I uh I left my job and and have been doing this ever since. And one of these days I might even get a paycheck from this company, it might be nice. So uh, you know, I I think we're very close to that. It's we're we're quickly becoming one of those five-year overnight sensations, I feel like we're on the cusp of it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

I love it. So let me ask this. You come up with the name, right? You mentioned before when I was making sure I could pronounce it well. Is that part of the story?

SPEAKER_02 20:17

It is part of the story, yeah. It's it's kind of a big part of it, actually. So at that point in time, I said my brother was a senior executive of Pepsi, and he was their uh what was he?

SPEAKER_03 20:31

What was he?

SPEAKER_02 20:32

He was some big title in charge of strategic strategic brand partnerships, right, for Pepsi North America. And at that time, he was doing stuff with like on the distribution side, from the way I understand it. So if somebody at Pepsi is watching this and says I'm totally wrong, you're right, I'm totally wrong. I'm just going based on my perception of it. But he was working a lot with Pepsi, I think at the time was trying to break kind of into the canned alcohol market as a dis as a distributor, kind of basically, right? Like I think there was talk of some hard mountain dew or something like that, or they might even put it on the shelves. I don't know.

unknown 21:07

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

It's three or four years ago. Actually, five years ago now. And uh anyway, uh anyway. Pepsi at the time was also working on one of those mixers, like um the things the barstool guys used to do, or they might still have Gibsons or whatever it is, right? But it's basically just the grape juice and fresco or ginger ale to pour into a Navaka to make transfeating, right? And I I forget what it's called, but he's like, Look, you need to find a color and an animal and go with that. And I was like, Okay. And so we went with a bunch, and then so you know, I sailed on six of the seven seas, I think, as far as they're listed right now. Uh I've circumnavigated the globe. You know, I left San Diego, went in 09, we went uh around Hawaii and all that, and then up into the Arabian Gulf or Persian Gulf and back down, and we were up in the Red Sea and then. Finally, we, you know, maybe realizes hey, it's cheaper for us to go through the Suez, across the Med, down through the Panama Canal, and go back up to San Diego than it is to go back the way we came, right? So we actually circumnavigated the globe on that deployment. The bad part was we didn't stop anywhere after we went through the Suez because we got delayed. But um so you know, blue is my favorite color, it's my youngest son's favorite color. So that was the easy part for the color. And then the albatross part, part of that's obviously from golf, uh, right, for albatross, you know, the rarest shot other than the condor, right? Um, and condor didn't really sound very good. Uh and then I was also, I had somehow come across this long poem or epic or whatever it's called, called The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, where this guy is at sea and he shoots an albatross, and it ends up being like a bad omen, and things go poorly for him after he does it, right? And then also when you're at sea, you know, an albatross to me is just a big big seagull, right? Is basically all they are. And you know, you typically, when you see an albatross at sea, it means you're getting close to land, and hopefully that lands home. So to me, it was kind of a way to tie together golf and coming home from deployments in the Navy and my family and and all that stuff. So that's kind of where the name came from. And then, you know, a quick Google search reveals that there's no other company in the world named Blue Tross. So, you know, it makes a search one of one. One of one. You know, we get autocorrected to Blue Cross a lot, but um, you know, if if you put golf after it, it it comes upright to us. There's no blue cross golf. So yeah, that's just kind of where it how it came. And um, you know, there's some things, you know, we have it all as one word. We probably should have left it as two because we'll get blue at Ross or you know, blue atross or something like that. But for the most part, you know, since we have the color in our logo, two different the words in our logo, two different colors, people tend to pronounce it correctly. So, yeah. So that's where that came from.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

You and your brother have just uh initiated more companies that are going to be named a color and an animal like pink gators or you know, like right, right, yeah, red snappers. Well, I mean, that's a real animal. Never mind.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

You're right. Well, it's funny. One of my favorite places to eat in Newport was called the Red Parrot, and it was a great restaurant right on Thame Street. I don't know if it's still there, it's been 20-something years since I went there, but yeah, like it just it um yeah, it's kind of become uh it's uh I think you got a great logo, and which I'm sure you'll get to, and then you know, we're just trying to do the right thing and and help kids however we can, and we go from there, yeah. Trying to give back.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Well, you you you definitely come a long way from your broken wife's uh sewing machine. So I because I'm enamored, I have no artistic ability in my life. I also don't know how to use machines, which limits what I can do to basically talking on a podcast. Uh we you you have graciously sent us some of this stuff, and I'm I'm blown away by the quality. I still have no idea how you magically put some sort of soft fabric on the inside of leather. And I was telling Robbie, like this scorecard keeper is probably gonna like my four generations from now are gonna be able to use this thing. This is the thickest and well-built thing I've ever seen from a golf perspective. So, what does equipment look like now? Like, what is the process? How in the world did you grow into this sort of creativity?

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Yeah, so it's kind of funny, right? Like, I knew I didn't want to be in corporate America the rest of my life, right? Like, I had answered, quote unquote, to the man every day for 22 and a half years, had to shave every day, didn't didn't like doing that, you know. And uh I shaved for you guys. It's not Sunday, but I shaved for you guys. Um appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

You didn't have to.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

We had it was at that point where it's just it's just looking like I was lazy, right? It it wasn't looking good, it just looked bad. Um so when we started making the when I started making the head cover and stuff, I used the same leather that everybody else used, right? The same thin um leather that if it, you know, if your bag falls off the back of your cart and it gets falls on the path and gets scuffed, the the head cover is basically ruined, right? Because you once you go through that protective layer on that kind of leather, which is paint, and you get to the suede of it underneath, you can't do anything with it, right? It's just ruined. And uh so the first when I retired from the Navy, the first job I had, I was selling milling machines in Southern California. And the first pair of shoes I bought as a civilian were a pair of Alan Edmonds made with football leather from four weed. And I got to think, I was like, you know, those shoes are pretty cool. A head cover like that would be pretty cool. I wonder if I can get that leather. Just to do something different, right? To be a differentiator of some sort between me and the Winstons and the Tremonts and all these people that are at scale who make who just dominate the market, you know, who have the majority of the share. And uh turns out that Horween does have a an outlet for that. It's called the Tannery Row, and they'll they'll sell single hides rather than having to go and buy, you know, 500 square feet of leather at a time. I can buy 20 to 30 and it's fine. And so uh got some of that, and then working with them, realized you know, the other leathers they have. So the one you have there, Jonathan, is um their Dublin leather. Uh they make that, yep, that's Horween Dublin in toasted coconut. So Horween has been is a fifth generation tannery in Chicago, and they've been tanning leather downtown Chicago for the last hundred years. And so where the leather that everyone else uses to make head covers takes a couple days to take from raw hide to leather, and they use um you know, chemicals and things like that to tan the leather before, you know, and dye it. Uh the type of leather you're holding there is called vegetable tan. So it's not chrome tan, it's vegetable tan. So rather than throwing all these hides in a big drum and tumbling with these chemicals to break down the skin into leather and tan it, they stretch these skins on screens and put them in a big vat of water filled with barks and fruits and uh roots that the tannins in those tan the leather naturally, right? So that that dry sensation you get in your mouth with red wine, that's the same stuff that's working on these hides and turning the raw hide into leather, right? Those same tannins that are sucking all the moisture out of your mouth uh when you get a big, you know, zin from Australia, are the same tannins that are turning that are preserving the skin and turning it into leather. Well, that takes a couple months, right? So it's a much more expensive leather. Um and then it's all full grain, not just top grain. So you're getting the whole thickness of the hide. And then with the way they tan it, you can shine it. So if it gets scuffed, then you can polish it back up, or you can leave it. But regardless, that leather is gonna continue to age over time and develop the patina and you know, basically get, for lack of a better term, a suntan while it's outside and it's gonna darken. So eventually, Jonathan uh Robbie, I think yours is light natural, right? So eventually, eventually that will get almost to the color of yours, Jonathan, the one that Robbie and yours will get a little darker. And then and I was a big head cover guy, like I was one of those guys that you know, when I got a new bag, I had to get new head covers because I don't always play good, so my bag had to look good. And um I loved white, but white gets dirty and grungy. And you know, the thing about having leather tanned organically is that nothing that you soak in water will turn it white, so there is no white leather anymore. That's the only kind of downside we have from going by this going to this uh ultra premium leather. The upside though is it'll last forever. So as long as you take care of it, you know, and you you put some neutral shoe cream on it to keep the leather moisturized and protect it a little bit. I mean, you're right, you'll hand that scorecard holder to your grandkids. I mean, and when it comes to the scorecard holders and the archbook covers and other things we make, one of the things I didn't like at the bottom is that they always felt so flimsy, right? Because it's just a it's a piece of that really thin leather, which is like a millimeter thick, then either a piece of thick cardstock or a really thin piece of plastic, and then you know, you a piece of fabric over it and it's sewn and it's got elastic, and and it just always felt flimsy to me, right? And so that one you're holding there is just leather and thread, and that's all it is. And it's a very stiff Italian leather when it first gets here, and then it'll break in where that bend is, but when you're writing on it, you don't have to like put it on your knee, like you can actually hold it up and write on it without you know flexing everything. And so uh, you know, I just went to the case.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Even if you're writing big numbers on it, even if you're writing big numbers, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

There's there's a lot of a lot of reinforcement for those big numbers. Okay, good, good.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Is there a left-handed version?

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Or well, so it's funny. My wife and I actually it's funny because I I write left-handed, but I play good play all sports right-handed, because my dad was a right. So I I wouldn't acquiesce to his side when it came to holding the pencil or the marker or the crayon, but when it came to playing the sports, you know, I would I acquiesced. And so uh I always put the pencil holder on the left side because I hold it in my right hand and write down my left. Uh, but typically, you know, my wife's like, well, you should put it on the right side because people are right in hand. I was like, Well, I would think you would grab it from the left side and just write. And so, you know, there's a chance when you get a score caller from me, the pencil holder could be on either side. I mean, I should probably put an option on the website for which side you want the pencil holder on, but um yeah, it just it's it'll last forever, and then you know, all that sweat and everything when it's hot out. Like I went and played, I was at Old Barnwell last weekend, very hot. You know, I got one in my back pocket, sweat, all that stuff, and it just helps develop the patina, right? Like all these oils and all these things from the atmosphere, you know, build up that shine and that patina, and and it just to me makes it look better. So it it's funny. We actually uh I made one for Denny McCarthy. Uh we have a mutual friend, and I made something for a charity he supports, and I sent him a yard cover at the same time, and he was using it, and then he got to Pebble Beach last year and it was gone. And I asked my buddy, I was like, What happened? He goes, Well, he it was raining, so he didn't want it to get wet. I was like, No, no, that's the perfect time to use it, right? Like it's nasty out, use it thin, let it get wet, let it develop all that character and show that you've actually used it. And so the real impetus behind you the switching to that kind of leather was that I had to find a way to be able to sell product and create a market, uh a niche market for myself where nobody else was, right? Because I can't compete at scale in pricing with Winston and Tremont. Uh, I can absolutely compete with quality and craftsmanship and and all that. And then to me, the the next place to go with that was the quality of the materials. So we use the absolute best leathers we can get. So whether it's four ween for the head covers or that, scorecard holder is actually Italian uh from Tuscany from a tannery called Virgilio that's part of the Tuscan vegetable tanners consortium or something like that, right? Um you know, we just use the best leather that we can get. And so are we more expensive? Yeah, we're twice the price, but our materials are four or five times more expensive than anybody else, right? So, you know, I think it comes out a wash where, yeah, we're twice expensive, but we'll last four times longer than any other head cover you buy, right? So, you know, that's the big the big thing is getting the clubs to understand the value proposition of what we're selling, right? Like they can have this half the overhead make the same amount of money, right? They can have the same overhead, right? But half the shelf space make the same amount of money, but also then their members and guests and anybody who buys it are actually getting value for their money, right? Like they're not gonna come back in six months and say, Oh, this thing's gotten grungy because it's uh light colored leather and I threw it on the ground, right? You throw that light colored leather of Robbie's on the ground, it's just gonna look better. And so, you know, it's just all about creating that that that market segment in the golf industry that wasn't there. There's a there's a couple guys that have popped up since, like um Lynxman, what's his name? Chris, I think you guys have talked a lot, right? Ryan, he uses some halloween stuff, like his accents are the same, same tannery, the Horoween stuff, and you know, he's he's at a good price point. He kind of mixes his materials a little bit with the chrome tan and the veg tan. But you know, the artisan craftsmanship, we're just trying to do that on a much larger scale, right? So, you know, we we do member guests, we do, you know, we're trying to get these these big clubs and big resorts and all that stuff, yeah. Which I'm sure you'll get to in point nine. I've done a little studying, so I'm prepared.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Nice. You mentioned the the the yeah, you mentioned the yardage book or the scorecard holder, and you know, you were you and I were texting about that before about you know the sweat helps it and stuff like that. As far as head covers, too, like these are great out in the rain. Like throw them on the ground, throw them on the ground, have them out in the rain, like you're good.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Do it. Just every uh you know, we're gonna throw it on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

I like it too much.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Well, I mean, I appreciate that, but um don't worry if it falls on the ground. Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Gently, gently let it fall to the ground. I get it. Well, you mentioned working with clubs and things, and we were interviewing Tim and Joe with uh Fescue and Dunes.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

And they were talking about the accessories, and we're like, and they said, Yeah, we work with with Mark with uh Blue Trust, and I'm like, wait a minute, we're we're talking, we're talking with him. And I held up one and showed it to him. They were like, Oh yeah, like so working with folks like that who are doing great things in the game, like that's the goal, right? Like, you want to get into more clubs, you want to work with organizations like Fescue and Dunes that are helping to bring clubs and logos and and the highest quality stuff to life, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Yeah, and so I actually have one out here. So um, yeah, I met Tim and Joe. This is one we did for them. This is uh Port Marnock that we did for them. Um I met Tim and Joe. My first PGA show was 2025, and got introduced to him there, and I had a sample there, and they were like, hey, this looks like something that would be great for what we're getting ready to do. We have two tiers of head covers. We want a third, we want an ultra premium head cover, and you know, uh been partnering with them for the last uh year and a half, and it's going great. They're growing like crazy, which I'm looking forward to hearing their episode whenever it comes out. Um, but they're growing like crazy, they're great guys to work with. Um, you know, it's all been gentlemen agreement, right? We don't have a contract. We're getting to the point now where we probably need a contract. Uh because while I'm in my 400-square foot garage right now, in four weeks, we're moving into a 2600 square foot space and actually expanding and buying more equipment and scaling. We're finally scaling. Um and a lot of that is due to our partnership with Tim and Joe at Fast Hun Dunes and doing things for them and and with them. And then, you know, with that, right? Like there's other dream clients I have, right? Like all the dream golf resorts, the band in the I'm going to San Valley in four weeks. Hopefully, I can find somebody to meet with while I'm up there between now and then. Um, the stream songs, the cabots, and then on the philanthropic side, uh, the Evans Scholars. So I'm I'm very fortunate to be able to go play Old Barnwell pretty much whenever I want. Um, with the great folks up there with Nick and Kitty and John and Lucy. And I'll forget people, so I'll just stop naming them now. But I I don't think there's a better uh uh model for a club, a national club than Old Barnwell, and doing what they do and giving back and encouraging the you know the participation of kids all over Aiken, right? Basically, for the way I understand it is if you're a kid under 16 and you want to go play golf, you can come out to the kids' course at OB anytime, doesn't matter if you're a member or not. I could be misstating that, but you know, there's all this stuff that they do with first T and Evans and all that stuff. And so once we get into the bigger facility and our production capabilities have expanded, then you know, I've already talked to Nick Schreiber about talking to the Evans scholars and trying to do something nationally with the Evans program, and then uh trying to help out the ACA ambassadors however I can as well. It's it's a little tougher with them because they all have sponsors and they have requirements to carry stuff from their sponsors and and things like that. So it's a little more difficult probably, but um, you know, just doing what we can to help help them out. Um you know, I I grew up uh you know, lower middle class and was very fortunate to have some some opportunities presented that was able to take advantage of and same with my brother. And you know, I I think um you know, just to be a good human, you gotta give something back. And so to help kids get into a game that's been so great to me for 50 years, and I've met so many incredible people and seen so many beautiful places that uh you know I think everybody should have a chance to do that. Uh I think golf's a great way to do it, and I think old Barnwell is the best, the best place that exemplifies that right now. That that ethos of community involvement and philanthropy and golf. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Yeah, they are they're hard to beat in terms of the model, like you said, and what they're trying to do. And and not just not just saying they're going to do it, but living it out. Like we've just recently I just recently played last month, Robbie was at the member guest, and uh you're you're hanging out with true Evan Scholars, like you're hanging out with kids that are trying to learn the game of golf, how to become better caddies, uh, and and being given those opportunities to not only engage with the guy that's that that they're came to bag with, but also future opportunities for scholarships and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Yeah, and so you know, again, I don't I don't tell any, I mean, I'll tell you guys, which I guess is telling everybody, but uh don't like to advertise it, but like anytime a kid at OB is caddy and meets the requirements to apply for the Evans Scholarship, uh, we'll send them a yardage book cover, right? And just got the OB logo on it, I'll say OB Evans candidate. And then for the ones that get picked up, um so DJ and Bennett are two of our caddies that got picked up last year. And so I made them both not this is football leather, but I made them duffel bags out of uh that leather you have in Gamecock Red. And then on the inside I put uh their name, uh Evans Scholar 2025, South Carolina, something like that. And so they have that, and they can, you know, they have them to take to the gym or to class or whatever. And then this year we had two more selected. So I'm about to start a duffel bag for uh Parker. And then for Daniela, I have to ask her if she wants a duffel bag or if she wants some other type of bag that my wife might make, that like a slouchy tote or something like that. Since you know, I don't know. That's really cool. Yeah, I don't know what they you know what college college college girls are carrying around these days, right? Guys will always carry a duffel bag, but I I don't see too many girls carrying a duffel bag around. So I gotta get with her and ask her what she would like. But yeah, we we do that, and then uh, you know, I'd love to do something nationally with Evans on this beautiful green Horween leather I've got and with an Evans logo on it, and you know, a portion of every sale goes to help a kid in the in the foundation.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

So well done. That duffel bag looks incredible.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

It's pretty solid.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Yeah, yeah. It would look great in the back of my classic Porsche. Uh I don't have a classic Porsche, but I know what the back seat would look like.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

So yeah, I'm actually working on one right now um for my brother. He doesn't well, he's very busy, so I don't know if he'll see this before or not, but it's uh green, he's a big fan of green and purple. And so this is that same Italian leather you have, Robbie, for your or uh then for your garbage book holder or scorecard holder, but it's in green and purple. Uh a bit uh like a Hulk duffel bag, and I'll put his company's logo on it, and then you know, he's at a he's running a pretty large company with some pretty high high end brands as partners. So if it ends up somebody asking Martin sees that and wants to buy some, then I'm all I'm all for it. But uh yeah, just You know making head covers all day, every day, you know, can get a little another. So you gotta find something creative to do on the on the other side when you're done with it. So yeah, it's funny. I I get done with work sewing leather, and then my outlet for my creativity is to just go and then do something else with leather that nobody's ordered, right? Just something for me or for my family or my wife or something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

That's really cool. Is there uh is there kind of a dream thing that you haven't made yet that you want to add to the uh to the lineup?

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Oh, that's a good question. Um backpacks. I'd like to learn, figure out how to make a backpack. Um the duffels were the big thing, right? Like that's uh that's probably the hard I mean, that's definitely the hardest thing I make. A backpack would be even harder.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Um have you done a golf bag yet?

SPEAKER_02 45:01

No. And you know, I honestly don't know where I'd start with a golf bag. And I and I say that because now that Sun Mountain um Maruchi baseball glove leather bag they made, right? That's pretty solid, right? Uh it's also very heavy, and so I've been on a three-year quest to find the absolute lightest golf bag possible because I love to walk. Uh, you know, it'll be I take a caddy every time, right? Just because it's support it helps a kid, it gives kids some cash in their pocket. But if I'm playing somewhere around here and my host wants to walk, then I love walking, but I want that bag to be as light as possible. And so a leather bag would be heavy. Um and the other thing is it's just you know I don't want to be a jack of all trades master and none. I want to make the absolute best of a few products and then let the people that make the golf bags and specialize in those do them. You know, I I've never met, I think his name's Scott from Elliott Bag Company, who's over he's across town here and he makes bags and they they look pretty. Um McKenzie knows what they're doing with these bags. Like for me to come in, I can't compete with them at price. I my quality wouldn't compete with them. You know, someday when I'm 75 and just tinkering around and my grandkid wants a new bag, sure, maybe. Um but you know, it's not on my it's not on my product plan right now. I'd rather get into apparel before I get into golf bags and uh you know become a bigger lifestyle brand like Malar or Johnny O or you know some something like that, where the leather accessories are are a highlight of what we do and and something like that. Yeah, that was our big product, that was our big, big plan a while back, and we've scaled it down a little bit. But real quick on the baseball glove leather. So um that bag that that Sun Mountain bag, that was like a glove that's already made, right? So for the we use the actual leather. So Horween also makes the baseball glove leather for Rawlings and Nakuna and a bunch of others. So the Rollings Heart of the Hide gloves are Horween. And so this was a special edition I did for OB for Masters Week. I made three of them. Uh this one's my Artist Proof. It says Artist Proof in there in the bottom. So it says 2026, and then one of three, two of three, three or three on. And these were out for Masters Week at OB. And uh we only did three of each. I had four different designs, did three of each. And I think next year there's gonna be significantly more of each because they went pretty fast. And also you have the Gilroy that's gonna be might be open next year for Master's Week. So yeah, so we do we use actual leather, and so this is actually part of our like uh I have a line coming out uh here in a month or two called America's Pastime, where it's made out of the baseball glove leather, and then the pinstripes are the city, like you know, having moved here from San Diego, right? The padres would be brown within a yellow number and a brown outline around it. And then I was talking to a national sales rep for Gresham Reed uh the other day, and made him a couple samples. He's like, Hey, I got some friends at the Grove. You might want to send them some stuff. So I sent one of these down to the Grove uh last week. I don't know if they've got it yet. But that that's one of the better looking ones I've ever made right there. Uh pretty damn solid. And then I have one more somewhere, but I don't know where I put it. But it's um it's basically a Roigy biv diagonal um pinstripe where it starts at purple and then goes out both ways. It's pretty I'll send you a picture of it after we get down, but it's pretty solid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

You should figure out how to get in touch with um I'll shoot who's the pitcher for the brave Tom Glavin, Tom Glavin. Smoltz.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Smoltz. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yeah, because he's big into golf. You get him some sort of baseball leather or something that has his number and brave ATL or Braves logo, something.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Yeah, there's also a uh World Series golf tournament at Pebble Beach every year in December, put on by I think it's George Brett and a couple other guys. And so their ad agency that runs it is actually here in Charleston. And so I've I've talked to them for gonna talk to them for this year. We I didn't get to them quite in time for last year, but yeah, it's uh it's pretty solid. And just and then the football leather's coming out in August, and that'll be the gridiron collection. So again, it'll be in the colors of the NFL and college teams. I can't do the logos because licensing is so expensive right now. You know, licensing is the goal. Um, but like uh I did one for my brother. We grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana, so all we ever had was WGN and the Cubs, and then the Bears, right? Colts weren't around when we were in high school. And so I did uh football one in Bears colors for him with his company logo, and then a baseball one in Cubs colors with his company logo on it. And they're on one of his bags that he has. They might be in his office actually now. I'm not sure where they're at. But yeah, that grid is not, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

So that's awesome. Um, I mean, we could we could chat with you about all the different things that you're doing, and uh and we will continue to try to highlight and share your story because it's amazing. I I do want to give a special shout out to your friend. Uh and you Jonathan mentioned the the member guest, Mike Sullivan, who said who showed me his head cover. He's like, Hey, have you ever heard of uh Bluetooth? I'm like, I've heard of him. He's like, I can hook you up with uh with the guy, right? Uh to tell the story. So Mike, thank you for uh for introducing us to Mark. This has been uh this has been great.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

So I I'm the only guy that calls you Mikey because I've known him for 20 Mike, I call him Mikey because when I met him, he was 25 years old. Uh you know, now he's 48. Uh but we met my wife loves telling us we met online. Uh there used to be a weapon called Bomb Squad Golf back in the early 2000s. And in 2005, Mike had a drive uh R7 quad off to tour truck with one of those ion Diamond of Blue Board shafts. And I made him a ridiculously low offer. And he knew I was in the Navy because we had chatted on this bullet, you know, this message board all the time. And then uh he's like, I'll tell you what, I'll I'll sell to you for this and a hat. And then we ended up meeting in person like two or three months later in Virginia Beach at an outing that was put on by one of the guys that was, you know, pretty active in the website. We all got banned from that website like literally a month after that, by the way. But uh for something. So I think the guy who ran the website's now in jail still for like uh it was a weird scene, but uh met Mike in person, quickly became fast friends, was in his wet, you know, went to his wedding, met my uh ex-wife at his bachelor party in Vegas. Um, and then you know, we've just been he's been my best friend for 20-some years. Um absolutely loved guy. He's put up, he's he's overcome a lot of difficulties in his life and come out on around the other end of it and couldn't be prouder of him. And he's he's one of the biggest uh fans and promoters of Blue Tross. We have and and uh he's just a great, great guy.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

Yeah, yeah. He was awesome, great to play with and hang out. We had uh multiple meals together that weekend there at Old Marvel.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

So yeah, yeah, he's a great great guy.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Yeah, a lot of fun. Well, let's uh let's shift as we start to wrap this up and get back to a little bit about your golf and then some of your favorite things. So we ask everybody, we want to hear the story of your most memorable golf shot.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

So, so uh, you know, I I I'm a listener, right? And I watch, and so you know, when we first start chat, I was like, oh well, if this works out, I I should be able to answer these questions, right? Because I'm not a guy who does well being put on the spot. Because I have so much stuff going through my head.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

So you got it all on paper, just read it to us. That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

We did just switch, but we did just change all of our questions for the quick nine, so I don't know if that's gonna be a problem.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

But I I have three, but you'll notice well, I have four, but there's a common theme through all of them until I get to the last one. So, first one I'm playing that member guest in Indiana with my dad, spray my drive way right on a par five. I'm almost in the other fairway, big stand of hardwood trees between us, little gap up in the top, I'm like 225 out. Hit this three-iron 15 feet, missed the putt. I'm in Boston playing at Renaissance Golf Club, a little rainy, wind into me, four iron, knock it down, stops dead five feet from flag, missed the putt. Uh go to Pacific Dunes or go to Bandon for the first time. I think it was it was either 2010, the first time we went or 2012, the second time we went. I'm on Pacific Dunes. Hit my drive right on 18. Have you guys been to Bandon yet? You guys been out there?

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Not yet.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Oh, all right. Well, when you go, you'll you'll understand, but hit my drive right. No, there might have been if we'd known what happened. Uh hit it right, have to take a drop because I can't swing the club. Like 225, 230 out. Kelly points at a cell tower way off in the distance behind 18 green at Pacific, pins all the way back right, but it's kind of like a reverse redan. And Katie's like, just hit it at that cell tower and hit it 220. Like, all right, absolutely lace this three iron, get up there, can't find it. It's in the hole. Two net three because I had to take a drop. So I don't have a double E double either. Uh but the one that that really stands out, I was playing with Sully, as you know, him Sully, Mikey to me, uh, in the Atlanta Athletic Club member guests in 2023, and we made the shootout, and they do it pretty. I really like the way they do it there, is they take half the flights, put them on one course, the other half on the other course, and then it's a three-hole aggregate true alternate shot, and the the lowest score out of each of those groups then goes to the final. Play 17-18 on the Highlands, but you're back to best ball, you're back to match play. So on 17, we both make pars. And then 18, if you've played it, you know it's par five, dog leg left, goes around. Well, Sully hits his in the bunk right fairway bunker. Our two opponents are both kind of in the fairway, but they don't hit it very far and they lay up. And I absolutely pipe one. And I've got two, again, two twenty left to hold. And I haven't played much before this, but I've been practicing a lot. And all I've been practicing is long irons because I'd gotten to this point playing in wind where I was hitting them all low and I needed to get the height back. So I literally hit thousands of range balls with a five-iron through three iron for a month before I go playing this thing. And so I'm in the fairway, I already got my my four-iron pulled, and I look over and Mike hits the lip, then he hits it out again. So he's laying three, you know, 120 out. And Mikey slowly comes over and he's like, Hey, you can lay up here and I was like, I got this. He's like, Well, you know, I'm laying three and they're laying two, and it's like I was like, I've got this. And so, I mean, it was just one of those ones that you never feel, right? Like, just the minute, the second of impact, I was like, that is really, really good. Like, I couldn't have hit that any better, and it's towering. And I screwed up the club twirl and dropped the club. I remember that because I wanted to start walking because I knew I hit it that good. And it lands, I don't know, you know, and there's carts all around the back of the green, right? There's probably a hundred people up there, and it lands 25 feet below the hole on the right, and they go nuts, and so then our opponents both kind of mess up their their shots, and so they're basically both chipping for five, basically, or one's got like a 40-footer for five, and one's shipping, and so Mike gets up there and makes his six, and uh you're the eagle putting, and I'm like, all right, just get it up there. Like, all you gotta do is hell, I could three putt this and we'll win, right? And I hit the putt, as soon as I hit it, I was like, Oh my god, I've putted it into the pond. Like it at Highlands on the on the major championship course there, pin was back left, and I was below into the right, and so there's a straight shot in between the back bunker and the left bunker, right, to go into the shortly moan area, right into this pond, right? And it hits the hole, hops up, and drops. So walk-off eagle to win the thing. I go nut. I'd go nuts for an embarrassing long amount of time. And that's the one where I actually made the putt. So that's probably my most that's definitely my most memorable shot was a was make an eagle to win a member guest and get a one of one uh decanter set because it was the 125th anniversary for AAC, so it was a special gift to mark that that year. So there's only four people that have those, and I'm one of them. So that's probably it.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Well, and there's enough people to corroborate that story because there's lots of really good putts and shots made at member guests that no one actually can see and tell if it happened.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

So oh, they still, whenever I go back, they I mean, if somebody oh, do you have you heard the story about the evil? That was this guy, and I'm like, yeah, you're that marking.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

Then they watch you putt, and they're like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Yeah, there's actually a video of it where as soon as I hit the putt the guy thinking video's like, oh my god, sit down.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Like yeah. So playing playing the bank shot, right?

SPEAKER_02 58:54

Like, yeah, yeah. I didn't cut that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

You had the line though, you had the line. I had the line, yeah. All right, well, as you know and seem prepared for, we do a little quick nine, a little back and forth here. So, first question what is your what's the favorite course that you've ever played?

SPEAKER_02 59:12

You know, I'm kind of a homer here, and I'm gonna say old Barnwell, but um there's I've played two courses in my life. I'm not one of those guys that can play a course once and remember what the seventh hole was, right? And what I hit and all that stuff, right? Like I was a member of Daniel Island Club, I've probably played 200 rounds on each course, and I still have to start at one and walk my one or ten and walk my way through to get to some of these holes, right? I've played two courses in my life, and I've remembered every hole playing at once, and one was old Barnwell and the other was Pine Valley. And um, you know, it's pretty pretty high company for OB there, right? But Nick seems to think that Gilray is gonna be even better than OB, which I can't really fathom. Um but as far as favorite ever played, I mean it would be OB or something very close to it, like Pacific Dunes, Old Mac. Um I I love Pac Dunes so much and old Mac. Um yeah, it would probably be between those three. I and Pine Valley. I mean, Pine Valley is just incredible. I I hope I get to go back. We didn't get to do the short course, we didn't stay overnight. It was literally a guy that I took to Old Barnwell who said, as we're walking up 18, oh, you should come to New Jersey next summer. And my buddy is one of those guys that if you invite him, he's gonna make sure you go. And so we ended up going like 10 months later and played aironomic the day before and played Pine Valley and then came home. So it was uh and I and I passed on Marion because we needed some capital and I I couldn't afford it. So I played uh Ronamink and Pine Valley.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

But yeah, that's an invite you don't pass up.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

Yeah, no, and my wife even said don't be an idiot, like we'll figure this out. So yeah, OB, Pacific Dunes, Old Mac. I used to say my ashes would be spread on the T of number 11 at PAC and number eight at Old Mac, which is the the Beer it's downhill part three, and I would add to that number 14 at Old Barnwell on that T as well. So those three T-shots will have my my ashes on them someday.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:19

Yeah, I love it. All right. Well, what course then is at the top of your bucket list?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:26

There's a bunch. There's a bunch. Um right now, the one I probably have the closest chance to actually play is probably O'Hopie. Um you know that article in Golfer's Journal just showing the food, right? Like I I'm one of those guys that when it comes to evaluating a place, you know, for the whole experience, you got the food, you got the course, you got the food, and you got the showers, right? And from what I've heard, that place fits all three pretty well. Um yeah, I I'd probably say a hoopy. Um Brambles out in Napa uh is very doable. My my brother just joined there, so I'm just waiting to go out there to Brambles. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

Um sweet, sweet logo out there, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

That is solid, isn't it? Yeah, that goes. Um I think doesn't Silas Ranch or something like that have a goat as well, since we have goats as caddies, I think. I can't remember. Um, I'd like to do I'm a big short course guy. I really, really, really wanted to do the short course at Pine Valley, like really bad. And like that is one of the ones at the top of my bucket list. And then uh my brother just played Royal Melbourne when he was over there for work. That looks pretty solid. And then yeah, New South Wales is probably the other one I'd like to play.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

Nice. Well, you you mentioned uh a shower, and then you got your upcoming trip to San Valley. Get ready. That that that checks all three of your boxes. I think that might be right now my uh leader in the in the shower clubhouse for uh for experience for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Is it better than Kohler? I heard Kohler is the best shower anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

I haven't done there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

I mean, Kohler you would hope would have pretty good ones, but San Valley, it's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Yeah, I think the the best shower I've had so far. I mean, there's no doubt about it. The best shower I've taken in a course so far, if I had to rank showers that I of courses I'd played would be Pete Dye Golf Club in West Virginia. That thing is a 24-inch round, like aluminum trash can lid in the ceiling, and it's coming out 100 100 psi. Like I can't I came out of there red, like literally red from like just so much abrasion to my skin, but it felt so good. Yeah, that that's probably the best one I've played at.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

I've never taken a shower at a golf course. Maybe I'm missing out on something.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

You're missing out, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

We'll have this on our golf shower podcast. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

I mean, there's rankings of golf time tests for showers, sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

Absolutely. Well, speaking of rankings, what's your favorite course that no one knows about?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

You know, I'm you know, Orangeburg Country Club. If Orangeburg Country Club was 30 minutes closer to Charleston, I'd be up there all the time. Uh uh and I say that as a hidden gem that anybody can play pretty easily, right? Because it's semi-private, from what I understand. I I I was a member at Columbia Country Club for a year and a half, and I think that is a true hidden gem as well. And I haven't played it yet since they've renovated it. I gotta get back up there, but I I I cut my teeth going from pretty decent to really, really solid as an amateur golfer at Columbia Country Club. And and that place will test you. And I think Orangeburg is every bit as good as far as well, it was when I played it seven, eight years ago, it was every bit as good as conditioning. Greens were fine, they were firm. The sand, you know, the sandy soil. I I think Orangeburg's and then for one in the Midwest, there's a place called Purgatory in Noblesville, Indiana.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

I played that last summer.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

Did you really?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Did you really on the head?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

I played that in 07. I went home for the USAM qualifier in Fort Wayne, and I played uh the Warren Course at Notre Dame, which was really good, but everybody you know, a lot of people heard about, and then I played Purgatory, and I thought it was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:30

I did too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

You know, that's the thing about the Midwest, though, right? Like you can go, you get bent T to Green, great shape. Greens are running 10 or 11, and you're paying 60 bucks, right? Whereas down here you're paying, I mean, that place down here would be $350, $400 easily. I I thought it was a great track. Yeah.

unknown 1:05:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

Those would be great, great answers there. I like that. Uh, who would be in your dream foresome?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

So I'd have a dream eight some aid some. Uh okay. Dad, my brother. My two sons. So that's five of us. My brother's oldest. Or youngest, I'm sorry. He's in the PGM program at Mississippi State. He's pretty solid. So that's six. Freddie. I might actually have to make it 12. Freddie. And I'll keep it eight. I'd have to flip a coin between Rory and Arnie. I think that would be my. You know, Arnie, I I know Arnie and Jack are glad that social media wasn't around when they were in their heyday. But uh a good friend of mine in back home in Indiana, he's played in a few senior opens, and he's got he got to hang out with Arnie in a locker room during rain delay one time, and just the stories, and just you know, guy never turned on an autograph. Uh that he's like if you're gonna have a role model as a professional in any aspect of life, I think you know he's he's pretty close to it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Nice. Yep. All right. What is your favorite snack at the turn?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

Uh I'm always a fan of the steam hot dog, regardless of where it is, if it's done well. Um probably the burger dog at San Francisco Golf. I didn't get to play Olympic, I played San Francisco um just on a fluke. Because I buddy of mine from Boston brought seven guys down and said, Hey, I need another member to play at Columbia Country Club. And I'm out there putting in this guy who's a member at Beverly up in Boston's like, Hey, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm in the Navy, and my then fiance lived in San Francisco. And he's like, Oh, have you played San Fran golf? I'm like, No, like I'm a I'm an active duty Navy lieutenant. No, I haven't played San Fran golf. And he goes, Well, when are you going back out there? I said, Well, New Year's Eve, you know, New Year's, and he's like, All right, and then two weeks later I get a call from this buddy of his who's a member at San Fran and Marion, and he's like, All right, January 2nd, 8:30, be there, bring a friend.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

That's awful.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

We played through a foursome on the dual hole, the downhill par 37th, and then didn't see anybody else on the course until we were putting out on 18, and there was a six um teen off on 10. And it was that locker room, just you know, it's got that old musty locker room smell, and there's spike marks everywhere on the benches, and it's that's a special place. That is a old, old, old, old money San Francisco club, but that that place is pretty special. And their burger dog, I don't I can't compare it to Olympics, it was damn good.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

Yeah, well, again, get ready for San Valley because they're their food on the course is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

Do they do the thing like Streamsong where each course has a specific halfway house and thing they do? Because those brisk that was my other one, those brisket tacos on I think it's red at Streamsong. It's either red or blue. Black's my favorite course there, but red, I think, is the one that has the brisket tacos.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:57

Yeah. No, it's uh it's awesome. Uh at uh at the uh the original at Sand Valley, the OG course, they have the Craig's Porch with the dollar tacos. Oh, yeah. That's yeah, it's good. You'll you'll have a good time there.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:11

And we're doing Aaron Hills. Is Aaron Hill's pretty good for food too? Because we're doing that two days ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

I hear that's incredible, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:17

Is it all right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

Yep. Yeah. Again, food food, good food at a golf course is just as good sometimes as the golf. Jonathan might say it's better.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:26

Yeah, right? Yep. Depends on how you're playing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

Yep. Uh what's your favorite golf course logo?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

I'm gonna take OB out of it. Uh I love the owl and I love the armadillo. Can't wait to get the logo file for the armadillo so I can start all kinds of stuff. I'm gonna say the park at West Palm, that parrot with the bucket hat. Um Dukes is a good one. The frog over in Ireland. Uh I actually found this. This is the original Boston Golf Club logo.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

That uh if you've been to beat Boston Golf, you know, but if you've never been, you'll never find it unless you know what you're looking for. And there's a a stick literally at the driveway that has 18 on it, and that's the turn into Boston Golf. Now they have the flag, the Patriot, the red and white battle flag, which is also great. Um and then I like logos where if it's one of those, if you know, you know, right? Like the Milk Marther from Mc MacArthur or the rotten chair from Sentinel Creek at Ainsley, or um stuff like that. In general, though, I think not of course, but I think we have a pretty darn good logo ourselves for blue tross. We have um this. So when I was uh working on stuff, we did this. So, you know, the blue looks like, or the bee, I'm sorry, for the bird for albatross. And then uh I remember we got it from our designer, and I was like, hey, can you make this part a little thicker? Right? I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

Yeah, a little flag stick.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:20

I'd had this three and a half weeks, never noticed that that was a flag. Because he said, Wouldn't that do something with the bird's tail? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Where's the bird's tail? And he goes, the flag is the bird's tail. I was like, oh, yeah. So we don't use this a lot. We're getting ready to really launch it big time, but that to me is a pretty solid logo.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

Um that is awesome as a homer.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:41

And then Post Tiempo. I love the Post Tiempo logo as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:44

Yep. Yeah. All right. Uh, what has been your favorite Pro Shop purchase?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

Hmm. Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

Pro Shop Purchase. You know, I would say anything that I've gotten for my wife where I didn't send her a picture and ask her before if she wanted it and she's actually liked it. It's probably my favorite. Um yeah, some you know, I you know it it's funny. I used to buy head covers at Pro Shops all the time, right? Well now I make them, so I don't buy head covers. And shirts I don't really buy anymore because I either have my company logo on or old Barnwell. Man, what have I bought? I I don't it probably said I bought at Pine Valley, I guess. I mean I spent enough at Pine Valley that the pros sent the member a note to say thank Mr. Hansen for his purchase in the Pro Shop. Uh I know I didn't spend more than somebody else who was there that same day, but I guess I made a big enough dent. Yeah, I I don't really have a good one for that. Probably a uh I have a ball marker from TPC Stadium or TPC Sawgrass, and I made a birdie on 17, so that's probably and it's got a two on it, so that's probably my favorite one. I I I don't know, I'm not a big yeah. I I've only been to Masters once, it was 2003, and I don't have any of that stuff left. So yeah.

unknown 1:13:27

Nope.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

Don't really know. Alright. Uh what is one thing golfers should do?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

Uh play faster. Uh fill in your divots, fix your ball marks. Uh if you're out there playing slow, let faster people play through. But really, just be nice. Just be nice to the staff. Be nice to the you know, especially I I've never seen it at old Barnwell because I'm I make it very clear to my guests when I bring them out there like, hey, these kids are not professional caddies, they're not right, you know. Some of these kids you get I I've had three or four kids where I'm literally their second or third loop. And you know, our job as members is to kind of help teach them how to do that, and you know, and something I really uh enjoy about being there, right? Um my retirement dream at one point was just to move to Bandon and Caddy, uh, because I hate the heat and I love golf and it seemed like a good place to be. But I think just being nice in general, period, no matter what you're doing, but especially in golf, you know, people are out there, they pay a lot of money to have a good time. Um just be respectful and be nice. It's not that hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

I love it. Fixes a lot of things. It does. Last question here. Finish this sentence.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:46

The best part of golf is uh spending time with friends outside. Yeah. Um yeah. I I you know the other part I would say is the best part of golf is just, and I find this out more and more every day is how small the golf world is when it comes to being in the golf business. Like I I've play I play less and less golf every I think I played 20 times total last year. So, you know, I should have listened to people who said if you want to play golf, don't get in the golf business, right? But um it's been good as far as my perspective because it used to be a pretty decent amateur trying to qualify for USAMs and mid-AMS, and now you know I'm still pretty decent. I'm still a four or five, but I don't care if I don't care if I scroll that ledge anymore. It's just a momentary, you know, blip on a good day, otherwise, right? Like would I prefer to go out with with Sully and and shoot two under like I used to and beat him by 12 and take all his money? Yeah, I'd prefer that. Um but am I happy now shooting 78 and having him take all mine because he's better than I am now? Every bit as much, maybe even more so. Uh you know, with time comes uh reflection and and realize that, you know, like it's just a chance to get to spend some quality time with your friends or your family and or with strangers and make new friends. Like I there's so many people in my phone who I've played golf with once or twice that you know I still talk to pretty regularly. And I I I think that you know there's very bad parts of golf about you know the the cost of entry and you know the elitism of it that that's out there in some some spots, right? But then you know you've got places like Aiken Golf Club where anybody can go play for 35 bucks, which I still haven't played Aiken golf yet, I have to play that. But you know, it's it's a oh I'd love to, but it's affordable, and you know, anybody can go play it. And with with programs like First T and the OB Foundation and places like that all around Aiken, you know, and Charleston, you know, the breaking ground on a learning center in a par three course here. Uh Bucky that runs first T Charleston's just a great guy, and you know, Nick Schreiber, founder OB is on the board for first T and being around people like that and getting to talk to them and hang out with them. I I think that's the best part. Like, you know, you can you can show up somewhere. Somebody uh posted a picture in the OB member WhatsApp the other day at Charles Samini, it was a selfie with Jim Nance. He stood in line at Charles Samuni to play golf, and so you know, he's got a what, a $30 million house on Pebble Beach, he can go play there whenever he wants, but no, he's waiting in line to pay $25 at the Muni for Twilight, right? Which I haven't played Charles Semini yet either. And I've known Troy for seven years. I haven't played it yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

Um we'll come down there and meet you there too.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

I tell you, man, you know, you say the bucket list, like I haven't played much in South, I haven't played Congrita, I haven't played Coyote, I haven't played uh 21, I haven't played Tree, I haven't, you know, all these places that have opened up and I I don't even get out of my little bubble, you know, here in this shop or out of if I'm gonna play golf, I'm gonna drive two hours and go to go to Aiken and go play old Barnwell. I think you know, I think that's one of the other best parts, right? Is you used to just go and eat balls all day, right? Now when I go play golf, I'm genuinely excited that I get to take a day off and go do something other than hunch over a machine and make my tendonitis where it's folding onto leather trying to sew it together.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:47

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, that's uh that speaks to uh to what we love about the game as well. So Mark, this has been a lot of fun, man. I I really appreciate you joining us again. Thanks to thanks to uh uh Mikey for uh for introducing all of us.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:03

You say Mikey, nobody will know who the other is Sully. Nobody'll know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:09

No, very uh very appreciative of him, appreciative of you, man. And uh sending us some uh some great stuff. We will proudly show this off on our bags for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

Oh, real quick, we're gonna put a discount, uh give you guys a discount code for listeners. Uh it'll probably be like uh best ball 15 or something like that, get 15% off the entire order, not just the most expensive thing. I hate when people do that with discount codes. Like if you're gonna come to the site, take the time to look around, get some value for your money, and do it on your entire order. So we'll get that set up here uh today and and get that.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:41

Awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, thank you. We'll tell everybody uh where to find your site.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

That'd be great. Yeah, bluechoss.com, uh b-e-t-r-o-s-s.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

And that's where we're we will have uh we'll have links in the show notes. We'll highlight your social media stuff too. But uh, Mark, thank you very much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:00

Thank you so much. And if anybody knows anybody at San Mally, please send them my way so I know so I can talk to somebody before I get up when I get it. So awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:09

We'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:09

Thanks so much, I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:11

Yeah, well, for Mark uh and Jonathan, this is Robbie. You guys have been listening to another episode of the Whole Story Podcast.