Building the Future: Construction Trades and the Next Generation

In this episode of the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services (DPS) Podcast, host Gail Lucas, DPS Director Rabbiah Sabbakhan, and Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS) Construction Trades Supervisor Steve Boden discuss a local program that introduces and prepares high school students for careers in construction trades, including carpentry, electrical, HVAC, masonry, plumbing, principles of architecture, and CAD design. Learn about the program, the house the students are building, and how DPS is involved! 

Previous DPS Podcast episodes have covered accessory dwelling units, eSolar, new codes, residential fast-track permits, outdoor projects, special event permits, use and occupancy certificates, vendor licenses, and more.

Do you have a question or idea for a future DPS Podcast episode? We would like to hear from you. Send an email to dps.podcast@montgomerycountymd.gov.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Trades Matter

Gail Lucas 0:10

Welcome to the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services podcast. I'm Gail Lucas, your host. I'm also the division chief for the Customer Support and Outreach Division here at DPS. We have two guests on the show today, and we will be talking about an exciting local program, the Construction Trades Foundation, that introduces and prepares high school students for careers in construction trades such as carpentry, electrical, HVAC, Principles of Architecture, and Computer Aided Design, or CAD. Today trades are not just a fallback. They are a path forward as more skilled workers are needed to enter the construction industry. I want to welcome MCPS, Montgomery County Public Schools supervisor Steve Bowden to the show, along with our director, Rabbiah Sabbakhan. Welcome, gentlemen.

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 1:10

Thank you.

Gail Lucas 1:10

Let's start with you, Steve. Tell us about your job with the CTF program and what does that entail? Who do you supervise?

How Students Design And Build Homes

Steve Boden 1:21

Great. Thank you so much for having me today. Um, I have the pleasure of being the supervisor for many of the different career and technical programs, including construction technology. And so, as a part of our construction technology program, we have a very close relationship with our business partners because it's very important to us at the school system to make sure that the things that we're teaching kids today are the things that they'll see in the careers for not just today, but also tomorrow. We want to prepare them to be workforce ready. So I oversee many of the different curriculum components, as well as working with teachers on professional development. And um, as a part of making it real, we have a student design and student-built home project that all of our students are not just introduced to the careers, but actually immersed in this industry.

Gail Lucas 2:18

How long has this program existed with MCPS?

Steve Boden 2:21

Yeah, the program was actually started 50 years ago. So in 1976, our business partners came to the school system and said, you know, you've got a great plumbing program at this high school and a great carpentry program at that high school. But how do we bring them all together and make it real world? And so at the time, they created the Montgomery County Students Construction Trades Foundation, and it's a nonprofit 501c3. And the directors at the time went out and took an unsecured loan and bought a piece of land. And um, we have had students over the years that each year we have a design competition, and the students in our architecture and design program actually are given specifications. They design a home and um we work with architects and builders and developers. And at the end of the design process, a home is chosen and we build that home the next year. And so over the years, we've built we're we're just finishing the 44th home designed and built by students in Montgomery County.

Gail Lucas 3:30

And FYI, DPS issues the permits for those. We do, we work with your program.

Steve Boden 3:37

Yeah, not only do they, not only does DPS work with , you know, overseeing to make sure that we're doing things correctly when it comes to the design component, but there are also active participants and partners when it comes to our board of directors. I thank Mr. Sabakan for being on our board of directors, and we also um have a wonderful relationship with the inspectors because it's very much our intent to teach kids how to do things correct the first time. And so having that partnership, yes, having that partnership with the Department of Permitting Services is core to everything that we do. So um, not only do our students learn the right way to do things, but also our teachers learn about it because very often there's emerging technologies that we need to know about and changes in permittings and permitting processes and standards. And so um I feel like we're on the cutting edge of that in terms of sharing that with our students, our instructors, and um, we are grateful for the contributions from DPS.

Permitting Partnership And Board Support

Gail Lucas 4:40

We're gonna come back to that because I'd like to know how the program has evolved over 50 years, particularly with new technology and how you're integrating new technology. But first, Director Sabakon, Robbie, you're on the board of CTF.

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 4:53

I am. I'm very, very excited to be participating on the board at CTF. Um it's it's been a great experience so far.

Gail Lucas 5:00

So how did that happen?

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 5:02

Uh it actually, I think, developed from as we are now in Building Safety Month, previous as part of our outreach, we had reached out to um Edison and and the CTF to you know promote the awareness of Building Safety Month. And we thought an ideal audience would be, you know, the trades students at at Edison. And it took a little work, but we finally connected and and and wound up doing a big outreach session to the students a couple years ago. And um it just kind of developed like, hey, you know, would you mind being part of the the board? I said, absolutely. I didn't, without hesitation. Because there's a you know connection. There's a there's a need to you know to bring permitting you know to to the trades and the trades foundation. Uh it's it's to me it's a it's an automatic thing. Uh it's it needs to happen. So just to bring about the awareness for permitting because it's one of those we're in the construction industry, but as I found, you know, it's it's just not promoted. People don't really understand what it's really about until they, you know, have to deal with an inspector or deal with you know a plans examiner. Um but when you can be proactive and you know and and and make that awareness known, um, I think it makes the whole process for everyone easier. But just the overall experience with the CTF is is great for many reasons. We we we have to connect to our younger generation for the workforce. Uh I don't know if you were part of the HR um annual meeting a c a couple of months ago um where it was revealed that the demographic, you know, they showed that analytics, every all departments they meet, you know, one-on-one and DPS it was kind of startling to see. We kind of knew, but to see the breakdown of our demographs, um two percent DPS that is between the ages of 20 and 29, you know, and the overwhelming majority of our staff are are at or approaching a retirement age. And yeah, we have to do something. Um and and this is one avenue, one one opportunity to make the connection so that we can start getting that that that workforce kind of diversity that that's you know, you know, we need that's more reflective of the county.

Student Enrollment And Expert Teachers

Gail Lucas 7:31

Steve, how many students are in your program and and how do students sign up for it or get recommended for it? How does that happen?

Steve Boden 7:40

Sure. Um students from across Montgomery County are eligible to apply for one of our programs. We have two locations, one at Thomas Edison High School of Technology in Silver Spring, and the second location is Seneca Valley High School in Germantown, Maryland. And so between both of the schools, we've got about 564 students studying construction technology this year. Okay. And um we have noticed a trend, and over the past four to five years, every year we have an increased interest and demand to serve students in this industry. And so we have more students signing up than we ever have had. And I think that there is a um, as you started off with, a newfound um respect for the importance of being not just college ready, but also being career ready.

Gail Lucas 8:31

Right.

Steve Boden 8:31

So it's very important to us in Montgomery County public schools that we introduce students to career opportunities at a very young age. Because if students are able to determine what they're good at and what they have an aptitude and interest in, they're able to study it and um and be much more efficient with their studies once they graduate. How many kids leave high school and say, I'm going to college, but they really don't know what they're good at? So this gives them the opportunity to um try things and find out if they really love it, or just as importantly, this isn't for me, and that's okay. And so that's part of part of the whole project of immersing students, not just in an awareness, but immersing them into this project so that they're able to try things and master them.

Gail Lucas 9:17

Who are your teachers? Who's teaching these skills?

Steve Boden 9:20

Um, pretty amazing people. These are people who, for the most part, have been in the industry. Okay. Master plumbers, master carpenters, you know, um architects who um have a passion to kind of bring the industry into the classroom for students. And so they're not just um masters in their skilled area, but they're also certified teachers. We work with them on the teaching pedagogy needed to teach our youth from today. And so um they're they're certified teachers and they um, you know, we we feel it's very important that if a teacher is going to teach a student to work towards an industry credential, that they themselves possess that credential and have the expertise to teach that skill.

Gail Lucas 10:06

Robbie, how does DPS work with this program? You're on the board. What else do we do with this program?

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 10:13

Well, , from the standpoint of being on the board, I think it's important. It's very valuable to have, you know, someone. It doesn't have to be a director, but having somebody that's involved in the happenings, the needs of the foundation, I think is critical. If if, you know, we we talk about being partners, to me, that's a that's that's a tremendous way of showing that partnership, that you know, living that concept, um, you know, and understanding what that foundation's needs are and how we can assist. And we can. We can help promote, you know, through our outreach and awareness. Um, but even the basics of, you know, our basic functions like in inspections. I was just thinking, like, you know, we're stewards, again, being in the construction industry, and imagine, imagine a student working on, you know, this house 44 that's underway or near completion. Imagine, you know, and our inspectors are you know, really the first is typical, , the first that have interaction with a lot of our you know, trades.

Gail Lucas 11:12

Sure.

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 11:13

Uh, but imagine if our inspector was not encouraging, was not motivating, you know, it's particularly to those young students. Imagine if they were being nasty or or standoffish, or, you know, which we're not. And and so the the traits that we that we demonstrated, I think, are are what's needed to help um you know motivate people to, hey, I this field is is definitely where I want to be. So being those stewards, I think, again, some of just from doing our basic functions, being able to help, you know, whatever way we can to help that house get, you know, get get completed in a timely manner and without a lot of headaches is the basic things. We want to do that for any project, obviously, but just doing whatever we can to provide those functions, but at the same time, you know, motivate and and encourage those students that, hey, you're making the right decision. Because it can go south easily if they see, oh yeah, what I saw with that inspector today, I don't think I want to do this. No, we want to make sure that we're encouraging them.

New Tech And Changing Building Codes

Gail Lucas 12:18

Steve, you said this is a 50-year program.

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 12:20

Yes.

Gail Lucas 12:21

Technology has changed tremendously in 50 years. How have you incorporated new technologies into this program, new ways of building?

Steve Boden 12:31

I think the board and the board um kind of collaboration that Mr. Sabbakhan was referring to is like critical because those communications and those relationships are what helps us stay ahead of whatever technology is coming out. There were times when I remember our board, which was made which is made up of leaders from our business community. They may be builders, architects, developers. Um, and they're giving us guidance from a school system perspective. But I also remember our board member who they were consulting with at one of the board members saying, Hey, I hear this is coming down the road. And those are some of my favorite conversations. When you hear technology changes are coming down the road, and the permitting office is the one kind of giving us the 411 on where things need to be, what what will make a safer house? And it could be everything from some of the things that jump into my mind are sprinkler systems. They were not always required on on a residential construction. Well, I remember when it was incorporated in, and I remember our builders going over to the to the DPS staff saying, hey, what's coming down the road? How's this going to impact our industry? What changes do we need to incorporate? Energy requirements. Yeah, that's the that's the second one. I remember energy requirements. Energy requirements was a huge, a huge change that actually caused us to change our curriculum to make sure that we were in alignment, not just with Department of Permitting, you know, um services standards, but also to make sure that they knew where the industry was going when it came to when it came to green technology and understand better how you know you need to frame a wall differently because it impacts every single trade from the carpenters to, you know, to every, it's not just putting up different installation. They have to actually frame the house differently. When you talk about framing a house, there's an entirely new thing. You think, oh, they're just hammering nails. No, there's wall bracing and other wind standards that have been incorporated in through the years. How have we learned it? Through our partnerships with the Department of Department of Permitting Services. It's a critical relationship to make sure that we're, as I say, not just preparing students for today, but also for the world that's coming out.

House 44 And The Cornerstone Ceremony

Gail Lucas 14:50

Absolutely. Now, see, there was a student, there is a student-built house that will be part of the cornerstone ceremony this spring. Tell us about that house and tell us about that ceremony.

Steve Boden 15:00

Great. Right now, we build a home every other year. So it takes us about two years to complete a house from the ground all the way up. And so um, we are going to be completing our 44th home this year. It'll be May 26th, is the cornerstone ceremony where we take the final brick and place it into the house to commemorate the students' achievement because we've got two years worth of students who have contributed to this house. And um, this is an opportunity for the community to come out and celebrate the great work of all of our students, our teachers, our, you know, our board, our board contributions to um show how we can come together, we can solve problems, we can learn new technology, and it's kind of a monument that stands there in recognition of all the work that we've done as a community together.

Gail Lucas 15:55

Fantastic. Fantastic. How can the community be involved in that? Or is the community involved in this?

Steve Boden 16:03

We invite our community to come and celebrate with us and ask our students questions. Ask our students, you know, what they did, what they contributed. And um, you know, that's the type of um interaction that we're, you know, hoping for because our students are really proud. You won't have to ask them twice about what they did and how they contributed. They are very, they're they're very excited about it. And we'll also have our business partners there. What happens with these houses? Great question. The the houses are sold on the open market. Okay. And the idea is that the money that is recovered from selling the house will go into paying down the loans that we took to build the house. So it's it's a real business, it's a nonprofit. Our our budgets aren't refilled every year at the end of the year. This is something where when the um when the house is sold, it goes back into replenish paying off the loan. And then it will also be um something that we use to purchase our next piece of land. Sure. And so, you know, land is quite honestly our biggest struggle. Okay. If there's someone out there with a piece of land and they want to shameless plug, they want to work with us, why not? We would we would love to, you know, um be aware of purchasing a piece of land, or you know, maybe someone wants to donate a piece of land to the to the foundation, we would we would love to do that. I thought of one other um major area that we, you know, we've partnered with DPS. I hope I got it. Great. Um that you know, um in the past we've we've had, and you know, I'm sure we'll hopefully do this in the future. We've invited all of the inspectors to come out because a lot of the work that we do at the house site is done in a fishbowl, you know, meaning everybody's watching what we're doing, they're giving their advice, their you know, feedback, because we want to make sure kids learn how to do it right.

Gail Lucas 17:57

Sure.

Steve Boden 17:57

Um, as mentioned, we want them to do it not just right, but in a safe manner. So um there are opportunities where all the inspectors are invited in, and you'll you'll never hear another builder say, we invite all the inspectors in to critique our work. But that's what exactly what we want to do. We want them to come in. We want them to tell us what we're doing well and give that reinforcement and also tell us what we need to do better because we want the house to be something that the kids can be proud of and the teachers can be proud of, so that when we sell it, that really is something that they can celebrate. And so that goes back to the you know, May 26th opportunity to celebrate and come ask questions and be a part of our fantastic program with our youth.

Land Needs Apprenticeship Vision Getting Involved

Gail Lucas 18:41

Robbie. What do you want people to remember from this? What do you want our our listeners, our viewers to walk away with understanding?

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 18:49

Well, I certainly want everyone to know that DPS lives up to its you know project partner, you know, um vision, you know, mindset, that we we we truly, you know, want to serve the community with which you know we serve to be partners. And again, this is a tremendous opportunity, not only from the standpoint of giving, you know, I mentioned encouraging and motivating, because we we always want to see our young students you know be ready for for the feet for the future. Uh but this is just an opportunity for us. Uh it it could it could be a two-way street, you know, really. It you know, I have envisions of um you know creating an apprenticeship program at some point, you know, and permitting as it's been done. I think Harford County actually started the nationwide program with ICC a few years ago here in Maryland. So let's try to tap into that. And you know, Steve mentioned, you know, forging those relationships, that's really where it starts. Uh I think the opportunities are endless when it's all said and done. You know, we'd like DPS to you know, through those coalitions and relationship building, you know, create something truly special within you know our own county. You know, we can tap into you know the pipeline of of talent and not have to necessarily recruit nationwide. We've got our talent right here.

Gail Lucas 20:15

Right.

Rabbiah Sabbakhan 20:15

So that's really the vision. Um we definitely want to make sure that people see that DPS is working within our community.

Gail Lucas 20:23

Steve, we're gonna give you another opportunity for a shameless plug. What else does your program need? What else can our viewers help you with?

Steve Boden 20:30

Well, land is definitely our number one need right now. As you know, in Montgomery County, it's becoming you know ever increasingly difficult to find infill lots. But um, you know, as Shared, I think, you know, it's great for the students to see um people in different career opportunities. Like, for example, right now, we may be, you know, educating a student about the skills needed to become a carpenter, an architect, an electrician, but it's also important for them to see other people who are professionals in the industry and how they learn their career path. So when you have the director of permitting services coming in and talking with kids and they say, oh, that's how he did it, that really helps them kind of see themselves in their future. And so um, you know, we appreciate all of our um, you know, all of our partners who come in and support us, whether they want to move on and become the future workforce here in Montgomery County or elsewhere. You know, we just want them to have all of these wonderful opportunities. And I do think it will come back to serving Montgomery County with, you know, the best and the brightest, you know, workforce here.

Gail Lucas 21:38

Sounds absolutely fantastic. Are there any other programs like this anywhere in the country?

Steve Boden 21:45

Um, there are programs that do um do the construction technology component. Um, here in Montgomery County, we actually have four nonprofit educational foundations. Okay. We have the construction trades that does the home. Building. We also have the Automotive Trades Foundation, another 501c3 where we run a licensed use car dealership.

Gail Lucas 22:07

Okay.

Steve Boden 22:08

We and we renovate and resell about 60 vehicles a year to our community. We have a car sale coming up this Saturday, and we have an IT foundation where we do computer renovation. So we have a computer sale coming up this weekend where we resell refurbished computers to um folks in the community for a very reasonable price. And then we have a hospitality foundation called Farm, where we partner with our local hospitality community so that students can see opportunities within those industries. But back to your question, other areas that have construction. There are other districts that do construction technology. Um, and we work very closely with them. I know that we've worked closely to launch this type of a program with the District of Columbia with their public schools. And I know that we've worked very closely with Prince George's County as well as Fairfax County with their programs. So um we we we need to learn from each other best practices and and and learn how we can all do it better.

Gail Lucas 23:12

So So, Steve, if people want more information about this program, how can they get that?

Steve Boden 23:18

Great. They could reach out to us on our website, which would be under Montgomery County Public Schools um ctfcareers.org.

Gail Lucas 23:27

Okay.

Steve Boden 23:27

Um, and um, and we would welcome any any you know um input from our community as well as um additional business partnerships.

Gail Lucas 23:37

Okay. And I understand I just learned that you are a product of this program.

Steve Boden 23:43

I am. I was a a graduate of the program back in the 80s. And back in the dark back in the dark ages, yes. So um, you know, I actually went through the construction electricity program. Okay, and then I also did the um at the time there was a woodworking program where we built the kitchen cabinets and bathroom vanities. So I had the privilege of building them for one of the homes many years ago. And it's interesting because we have many graduates who have gone through the program in all of the different trades who are now coming back and volunteering with our program. And it's great that they're giving back, but it's even more important that they've been successful in the industry that they've chosen. And many times they're owners of their own companies, which is quite remarkable.

Resources Contact Info And Closing

Gail Lucas 24:35

Again, excellent program in Montgomery County Public Schools. Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today on the podcast. And thank you, listeners, for tuning in. If you like today's conversation, don't forget to subscribe, share, and check out our upcoming episodes. Do you have an idea for a topic or a question for an upcoming episode? We want to hear from you. Email your ideas and questions to dps.podcast @ Montgomery CountyMD.gov. Remember, the Montgomery County Department of Permitting Services is here to help you, our customers, succeed. Check out the DPS website, Montgomery CountyMD.gov forward slash DPS to find information and resources to help you with your next project. If you have any questions about the permitting process, you can reach out to our customer support team by calling 311 or 240-777-0311 or stop by our offices at 2425 Reedy Drive, seventh floor. We have staff here Monday through Friday from 7:30 a.m. to 4 o'clock p.m. to help you navigate our system to answer your permitting questions and make sure that you get the information you need to succeed with your project. Remember, DPS is your project partner.

Announcer 26:09

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