Rich But Stressed | Ryan Johnson | Growing Money with Sean Trace

One thing I’ve noticed after talking to financial advisors, entrepreneurs, and families is that making more money doesn’t magically make money stress disappear. In fact, sometimes it makes it worse.

In this episode, I sit down with financial advisor Ryan Johnson, who works with high-earning young families making anywhere from $200K to $500K a year. And what surprised me is that the biggest problem they face isn’t usually investments or market timing. It’s uncertainty. It’s that quiet voice in the back of your head saying, “I finally make good money… what if I mess this up?” We dig into the real questions people ask when their income starts growing. Can I actually afford that vacation? Should I save more for my kids’ college or my own retirement? How do you build a financial system that lets you enjoy life today without destroying your future?

Here’s the question I’d love to hear from you: If your income suddenly increased tomorrow, would your first instinct be to spend more or save more, and why?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Most people are like survived. You know, like not everyone is thriving, but like people find a way to get food and like find a place to live. Like in the United States, that's not true for everyone. So forgive me if I'm offending someone with that. But like if you're, you know, making a significant income and you're doing the best you can, like you'll probably end up okay. But what a lot of what I offer them is confidence that they are, and then actual technical changes that like might have financial implications in the rounding of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of their lifetime, right? So, but in that case, it might be they might die with$10 million instead of you know five million. So either in either case is quote unquote successful. And I'm not suggesting that they should die with that much money. The point is um they've got the green light, it's just a matter of um how green it is, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Welcome everybody back to the Growing Money with Sean Trace Podcast. I've got an awesome guest with me today, would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Sure. My name's Ryan Johnson. Um, excited to be on the podcast. Thanks for having me on, Sean. Uh I run a small boutique firm in Grand Rapids, Michigan, primarily focused on higher earning young families. So most of my clients are in their 30s and 40s, incomes between$200,000 to$500,000. I started the firm primarily because the kind of questions that my friends and colleagues were asking weren't getting answered by traditional financial advisors. A lot of them were getting answers to investment questions or being sold more insurance, but those weren't the questions or things that were keeping them up at night. It was more like, can I afford to go on this vacation? How much can I put in my kids' retirement fund versus my own? Sorry, not my kids' retirement fund, my kids' college fund versus my own retirement. I don't know if I'm messing this up. What am I gonna do? So I decided to go out on my own and I did that two years ago. And uh yeah, it's been a great decision. I've enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

It's interesting too, because like what you're talking about is people want to do the right thing. They want to be playing the game the right way. Um, but sometimes this like I I talk about this a lot in a lot of areas, but especially in personal finance, people don't know what they don't know, you know, or they might be operating to the best, like the best knowledge they have, but that's incomplete, you know? And you know, one of the things too that it's interesting because you're talking about people that 200 to 500, but you're like you have thousand a year, but like when someone's income goes up, their stress can often go up too. Like, absolutely what's usually going wrong with their financial plan, or what are they what mistakes are they making, you know?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Sure. Yeah. What I've found is money stress exists regardless of who you are. And I think sometimes, since the majority of people tend to see that and they kind of roll their eyes and say, Oh, I'd rather have that stress. Sure. I I think we could all agree we'd rather have the stress of having too much than having too little. Um what tends to shift, um, and there's a moment, like I just had someone who booked a meeting yesterday, and they said in their blurb, like, I've got a new job paying me more than I've ever made, and I don't want to screw it up. And so this the burden comes from scarcity to uh ruining it or making it worse or missing something big. And so, to your point, I don't know what I don't know is the thing that creates the stress. And so I talk with people all the time who quote unquote outgrow the generic advice online. It's like, hey, I've got my emergency fund and I maxed up my 401k. Like, now what? I've just got money, I'm sitting here and I'm just like, ah. Uh, and what I've found to be the most helpful thing from reducing stress is having a plan or a strategy. Like there are some people who would do it themselves, but they know what they're trying to do and what their five-year plan is. There aren't very many of them, but um, even when the changes are minor when I work with people, I a lot of times I'm taking people from 80% to 95%. And I'm just like, this is how the next few years are gonna play out. And yes, I, as the financial professional, you're hoping gives you the magic permission wand, gives you magical permission to go on that$10,000 trip. No, it's not completely ruining your future. Yes, you can afford to save for your kids' college. So um, that fits within the plan. Like that language is something that my clients have really gravitated towards. And over time, I had one client who said, Ryan, I just realized I haven't like worried or thought about money in six months. And I was like, is that a good thing? Like, yes, that's exactly what I wanted. And I was like, that's amazing. I'm gonna use that quote in the future because it's just too good. So um the stress tends to be from fear of screwing it up, messing it up, missing something big. Uh, and what I've found to be helpful is just a little bit more clarity on what you have and why you're doing what you're gonna do next, rather than just guessing and figuring out this YouTube video said that. So that's been my experience.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Guessing is is a hell of a thing. And you know, it's like um let's imagine that you are, you know, wanting to do something like I remember once I uh my I had a friend Chip and Chip, one of my favorite people. Chip was a great guy. Uh, I had some major problems in my car. And you know, I went and got a price quote, and it was painful, painful, painful, painful. And uh Chip was like, dude, don't worry, you don't have to pay that. I'll take you down to the wrecker, we're gonna pull the part and you're gonna put it on your car. And I was like, What do you you mean? He's like, dude, I'm a certified mechanic. We're doing this together. Get in, you know, get in my car. We went down to this big place in Long Beach that was a wild place that you just it was all these direct cars, you go in there, and all these people are in there just pulling things off, and then you walk out and you pay for it. It was wild. I never knew that existed, but it's wild that it does. And so we got there, we pulled the part, and we get back to um my house, and he's like, Here's my toolkit. I'm gonna go grab a beer, put it on your car. Here's a video, watch the video. And I was just like, ah, wow, I don't know how to put a starter on. Yeah, but he kept coming in and checking on me and guiding me through the process, and you know, I was able to put a starter on the car, you know. I don't ever want to do it again. I'm very happy to pay someone to put a starter on my car because it wasn't easy, and that's not something I'm good at. But you know, the thing is, is it's like imagine someone tells you you're gonna have to rebuild an engine, you know, and dude, like, no, you know, it's not my skill set. And one of the things that I find people trying to do is we with YouTube, we sit there and go, I saw this one video the other day of these people that were construction like you know, influencers, and they were like, we decided that we yeah, interesting for sure. They were like, and all the real like construction people were commenting on the video, and they were cutting out like these support beams in the house, going, We're gonna make something cool here, and all the construction people going, you can't cut that. That's literally holding the house together, but they did, and then you know, it's like it didn't fall down. They're like, But it didn't fall down, but it might because you're doing something that is is affecting this. But like we get all these videos online, we get all these people who guide people are like financial influencers, but the reality is is you really do need people who can be there with you and guide you for certain things. We need experts, you know, and I think that finding that person that you can trust is such a powerful thing that you can do when you're building out your team.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Absolutely. I've kind of begun to realize that there's a lot of value in the advice that I give, but most of the value is in the accountability that I provide. Because what I'm starting to notice with everyone is we're all insanely busy. And that thing you've had on your to-do list for six weeks turns into six months, and you're not doing it anymore. Uh, and it doesn't get done. And so I've had clients tell me, like, Ryan, I finally merged those accounts last night because I knew we were meeting today and I was sick of you asking, and I didn't want you to ask me again. And I said, That's music to my ears, that's progress that we're making. And for me, as an anecdote, everyone's talking about AI all the time, and I'm not gonna sit here and say AI will never take my job. But right now, I have a lot of confidence that there's a upper hand that we have as humans in the area of accountability. Because I've had AI build me meal plans and fitness programs, and I just don't do them. Yeah, it's like, oh, 6 a.m. Okay, I'm not gonna go there. Uh, but I actually hired a trainer, put my money where my mouth is just so I like I'm gonna show up. Because for whatever reason, there's this part of us that don't want to let other people down. I think that's probably the advantage to humanity. Like, who knew? And so like I'm I'm thinking out loud if there's a way AI can actually play that role. Like the only one I've come up with is like negative consequences, like those stick systems where if you don't do this, then you have to donate money to a nonprofit who you hate or something like that, or some politician that you don't like. But um, a lot of people wouldn't wouldn't sign up for that. So um that's for me, I think, something that you know, as I think through my own value proposition, it's like you get things done when you work with me. And you might not let me phrase it, you know you're not gonna get it done if you don't. So come on.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

I 100% agree. When I do podcasts with people, um, I tell them, like, you know, most people equip their podcast in the first 10 episodes. And they're like, well, why should I why should I help you? Um, and I said, Because um I'm gonna make sure you keep showing up. I'm gonna get you past uh where you're at right now, where you're stuck. You know, I'm gonna help you keep showing up and keep getting there because that's the human side. Like so much AI is gonna take away a lot of that. But I think that the human side is like, and that's where I get so scared about people trying to, and I'm not gonna hate on AI, but like when you use AI to do everything that's the human part, that's dangerous. Like, I heard I was like watching this one video, and they're like, and it was for financial advisors. And this guy was like, I've got this new AI that will message back all my clients for me. And I was like, that's the part that literally you need to be doing, they need to talk to people don't they want to hear you. That's that's the time where you you talk to someone. That's like the part that is you, you know. But one of the things too, I wanted to ask you because you know, people like we were talking about that you don't know what you don't know. What are the most common financial mistakes people making 200k to 400k or make a year are making? What are the mistakes that those people are making?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, so nearly all of them are not planning for when things don't go according to plan. So it's really fun to think through cash flow and investments. And it's not fun to think about what happens if there's an unexpected expense, you lose your job, um, you get sick and you can't work, or God forbid you pass away, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

And I kind of built a framework that it's structured similar to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but I called it the mountain of confidence. And um the confidence is at the summit, but you have to have address the foundation and kind of work your way up through the levels. Uh and it speaks to the fears or like the 2am fears that you know higherners, you know, with families are thinking about. Um, oh crap, what am I gonna do? Like, is my family gonna be okay? That kind of thing. So I always address five main categories from a foundation's perspective that basically cover the to the extent that we can, you know, the what ifs of life. And that includes adequate emergency funds for liquidity, um, state planning. Um, and I don't do that, but I play the role of accountability to have them either work with a solution online or with a local state planner. Um life insurance, disability insurance, and then a small, easy one to check is liability. Um, but for a lot of folks, even if they don't want to do it or it's not as exciting, it does contribute to the sense of peace. Like, oh yeah, I've checked all the boxes. Like, I don't have any major gaps from that perspective. Um, that is the biggest one I see. And then the second one is more on cash flow. Um and they think of things in terms of maxing out their 401k. So that term to them feels like they've checked to the extent that they can. Oh, yeah, I've already maxed out my 401k, but maxing out your 401k is a fixed number. Like in 2026, it's$24,500. And if that's the extent of your future retirement and you're making, you know,$250,000, well, that's less than 10% of your earnings that's going to retirement. Uh, and you're thinking that you're checking the box. And so having people realize that, like, no, we need to think in terms of the whole cash flow. Yes, maxing out the 401k is great, but we need to think beyond that. So I'd say those two things, um, just from a paradigm perspective, because people don't think about it that term in those terms, you know. It's like, I've been working up to maxing out my 401k, and I've been doing it for the last five years, but I've also gotten raises and promotions the last five years, and I haven't increased my savings accordingly. Um, those are kind of the main ones. There's a number of other little ones that I've seen throughout that don't apply to every every person, but those are kind of the two main ones that I come across.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

There's this quote from from um Taoism uh from Lao Tzu. I was an Eastern philosophy major, and I like to bring in philosophy to everything I'm doing. But his thing was like there was the saying in the Tao Tajing, whether you go up the ladder or down the ladder, you're still unstable because you're you're still in this game. And one of the things what I take that to mean is this that whether you have a high income or low income, the reality is it's still all about your your relationship with money. It's still all about your financial habits, it's still about the way you think about cash, it's still about the way that you, you know, if you are making more money, dude, lifestyle creep is a real thing. And there is a reason that financial like like financial advisors talk about lifestyle creep a lot. Because it will hammer you, you know, and like I remember, I remember uh there are so many stories about like the person who wins the the lottery and then it's gone right now. You know, and and it's like because the habits, the the the the skills, the soft skills they needed financially were not there. But you know, how if you're meeting someone who's got these problems, how do you work with them to change them, to to get these better habits, even though they're making a lot of money? How can they start making these changes?

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah, it's such a great question. It seems like the majority of people who raise their hand or reach out have strong habits and it makes it so easy. Like it's it's like the cliche of like trying to get the strong saver to spend more. That's an easier problem to solve than the the person who needs to withdraw their expenses and or sorry to come down on it. And there's really two approaches I take. Um, and I'm not the best at this because I've I've had to fire a client before because they just wouldn't. And there's in my mind, there's two things I can do. So the first is before anyone becomes a client, I have a discovery conversation with them, and we don't talk about projections or numbers or income. Um, it's all about your relationship with money. Ask them about what money means to them, and we talk about what it was like growing up and how it interacts with their current relationships. We talk about what they love spending money on. The number one answer is I don't love spending money at all. The number two answer is experiences. But uh then we talk about what they would do with a windfall. And in their answers to these questions, they're actually revealing their values to me. Because what I used to do is like go through a list of like 50 values and whittle it down. And it was like, I don't know. It was kind of a weird conversation, and I respect that people do that successfully. But what I do instead now, and it it's it's a little bit more work for me, but I try to distill it down to four or five values that I hear them saying loud and clear in their answers. So it's a lot more active listening, and I say, Sean, in what you've shared with me today, here is what I hear you saying is important to you. And I'll I'll kind of write it out to them. And, you know, you have an opportunity to correct me if you think I included something that maybe isn't as important, or if there feels like there's something missing, let me know. But nine times out of ten, they're like looking at each other, like, wow, that's really beautiful. I I really resonate with that. And I'm like, that's great. This isn't just a fun exercise, though. Like, this is now the lens that you can make decisions because my perspective on relationship with money is if it's poor, we contribute to that by acting in misalignment with what's important to us. So there's this framework from a behavioral financial advice perspective that says there's two versions of us. There's our ideal selves, which is like our values. Like if I was operating out of my values all the time, I'm my ideal self. And then there's our real selves, which is our actions. We are what we do, right? Right. And if we can get this kind of Venn diagram to overlap between ideal and real, we'll be happier, most likely. We'll have probably a better mental health. But even just in the context of financial decisions, we'll have a growing, improving relationship with money. I can't sit here and say I'm gonna fix your problems with finances. But for so many people, they've never had that conversation, they've never had that conversation with their spouse. Um, so many times people sit there and look at the, you know, their partner and say, I had no idea that you had that. And so for me, it's really fun uh to have that. And then I also will provide different advice to people based on that. And so some couple that loves working, like we're not, they're not pushing for a 55 retirement, and we're gonna, and they love adventures, they might be spending$15,000 to$20,000 a year on vacation. Where another person, like their idea of vacation is road tripping two hours to visit their mom, and they want to be done working as soon as possible. Well, we're gonna push for 35% saving, you know, something like that. And so it's really interesting. And so that would be the first way is you know, I've used this line before, and I got this from Carl Richards, but he says, you can fire me for asking this question, but you should definitely fire me if I don't. Uh, and that's where I kind of present to them their behavior and their values. You've told me that this is what's really important to you, you know, security, stability, being debt-free, but you're thinking about financing a new$80,000 truck. Like, does this align to you? Does this feel like an alignment? Because like this isn't my decision to make, and I'm not judging you. I just want to act as a mirror here. And that's when they either say, No, you're right, thank you, or eh, you know, I don't, I'm fine. Like, no, we'll we'll figure it out later. So that's the first strategy is the values. And the second strategy is just like running the numbers. Like, if you keep doing this, you have this much money, and here's a thousand dollars a month going to a payment that's not going towards your financial goals. Like, you can buy the$80,000 truck, you can afford it. That just means you're gonna retire at 70 instead of 62. Like, that's an extreme example. It probably wouldn't be that big of a difference. But are you willing to make that trade-off? And some people say yes, at least they're making an informed decision. And some people say, No, I'm still gonna retire early, and I still want the truck. And that's where I'm kind of like, I don't know if I can help you. I don't have the skill set to get beyond this is misaligned from a values perspective, and you're not willing to address the trade-offs. Um, so I had some success in that area with a couple folks, and I've had a you know, one that ultimately I had to tell them, you know, I I don't know if I'm the right person to help you in this category. So I think it really.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Pushback. Yeah. And we're not, you know, you're not, we're not always a mix a match for everyone. You got to find people that can align with you, you know. But you know, yep, there are a lot of people that feel like they should be doing more with their money, but again, don't know where to start. What are the first three things someone should be doing to get right financially?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah. So I already mentioned the foundations, but um to kind of talk through my mountain of confidence framework. A lot of people start at the top and try to work their way down. The top is confidence, they recognize they don't have confidence. So then they go to the next level, which is like unique tax planning strategies or this like thing they saw on TikTok about starting a business and expensing it or getting into short-term rentals so they can reduce things. Then the next level below that is investments. Maybe if I just everyone's talking about gold, should I get in gold or you know, Bitcoin is, you know, should I get into crypto? No one's really been thinking about that for the last few months, but historically that's the case. The level below that is cash flow. Like, what am I doing with my money? And then the bottom level is like protecting against what doesn't happen. So I invert that. I say, let's make sure we have a solid foundation. And then the next level is cash flow. And this is like the driver of 80 to 90 percent of personal outcomes. What you're doing with the money that's coming into you. Um, there are exceptions. People inherit things, they do end up you know, buying a stock and holding on to it, and it turns into millions of dollars. Um, there are exceptions to those rules, certainly. But for 80 to 90 percent of people, the decisions you make with the money that comes flows to you, how you redirect that flow is going to be the biggest indicator of your long-term success. So most people just have no idea in terms of percentages. Like, yeah, I max out my 401k. Well, how much is that? Well, I don't know. I just put the max button. And like, how much money are you making? I think it's around here, you know. So I start by getting clear. Here's all the money that's coming in, and here's where it's going. How does that land with you? Oh, this is really interesting. Um then we talk about what it would need to change to get where you want and whether or not the trade-off is worth it. And so it's really like getting clear on the income piece. But even to your point earlier about behavior and mindset, like the biggest way you can think about whether or not lifestyle creep is going to affect you is to ask, like, what would you do with an extra thousand dollars a month?

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

And immediately you think of things you can buy, people you can hire, um, conveniences that you can afford, uh, vehicles you can upgrade, uh amenities you can finally purchase. Um, maybe that's just me though. Um but some people are like, oh, I'd save it all. Some are like, oh, I'd save 20% of that, or I'd save 50%. Those people tend to have the mindset of great, I got a raise. I'm only gonna treat it like half of raise, though, so I can be prudent. But most people aren't that way, right? We I don't know, you've probably seen the research on how much money people think they need to be to be comfortable. And like at every income level, it's like if you make 50, you think you need 100. If you make 80, you think you need 150. If you make 200, you think you need 400. It's like, yeah, because we just get adjusted to our new sense of living right away. Um, and so I am as much of a, you know, I fall a trap to that as much as the next person, even on my own personal side. And I'm out here like, but um, it is helpful to talk about it because then I'm like, oh yeah, I should probably save like 250 of that, and then then I can spend the rest guilt free. Hooray. But really honing in on that cash flow piece, that's kind of something that they can really get a lot of leverage out of.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

I I think one of the things that um I remember watching this video online, and this kid was trying to fill up this dad, it was trying to fill up his kids' little like kitty pool, right? You know, the little like inflatable rubber ones. Right? You know what I mean, right? We've got one upstairs. And the kids had moved the hose out, and so the dad comes back to look to see it has the pool filled up, but it hadn't filled up because the kids were just waving the hose around. Yeah, and then he had to go on to tell and explain to these kids that if the hose is not funneling water into the the into the pool, that there's no swimming place, and so the kids had to sit there and they were just like, you know, you could see their faces just absolutely stressed out. But once the pool was filled up, there was this ability to have join enjoyment.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah, I think right.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

I think we adults think that we're so much beyond, you know, but we're not, we're really not, you know. I and you're you're right. Like, it's like you see it on this. Is one of the reasons I actually love Mr. Beast's YouTube channel for the psychology of the game. This morning, my daughter and I had this a hell of a discussion about Mr. Beast, and it was like this this video that he had was this is wild, right? So he had a group of people that all had a button in front of them, right? Think about this. And so the the money was going duck, duck, duck, duck up, you know, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4. And it's just counting up. But the second one person presses that button, it stops, and that person gets the money. So all these people like, don't press the button, don't press the button, stay, we got to wait it out because they wanted the money to get higher. But you had certain people that were just like, you know, I need that 10 grand, I need that 10 grand, you know. It was really interesting because my daughter and I were talking, and I said, She's like, Why is that video so interesting to you? And I said, Because of this. I said, You, me and mommy are sitting around playing that exact game. What do you think we're gonna do? She's like, I'm not pressing the money button until mommy says to. And I said, Exactly. You're gonna sit back, and you, me and mommy are just gonna be watching each other. And do we do it yet? No. I said, I think we wait. You know, we both we're gonna be able to decide it together quite easily. And she's like, Yeah, of course we're gonna do that, you know? And I said, You know, listen to daddy or mommy. She's like, I'm gonna listen to mommy. I was like, Okay, yeah, well, this is probably right. Um, and finally I said, now what happens if you put your class in that same situation? You're playing that same game with all of your class, and she started listing out the weak-minded members of her class right there. She's like, these three people are gonna fold fast. She's like, they've got no ability to hold out. But it's interesting because that simple game, that simple thing that he was pitching was looking at how few adults actually have the ability to hold out. We see that hose and we're like, oh man, I want to wave it around. And people are not understanding where their money's going. Which, you know, it it leads me to ask this next question because as you get uh a young family, because and this is one of the things I really enjoy about talking to you, because so many of the financial advisors I talk to are talking to people that are like, I'm talking to people that are you know three, four years away from retirement. And someone who's talking to young families to me is super interesting because you've got a young family who's trying to build long-term wealth, but like, what does a financial structure, a healthy financial structure, actually look like for them? You know, because what are they what type of systems are you setting up? Because for me, dude, I was absolutely lost until my last financial advisor um said, dude, you need to set up the bucket method. And I was like, what is this? And then we started looking at it, and then I did profit first, and I was just like, this is amazing. Yeah, those were things it's what you you don't know what you don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Yes, clear frameworks are really helpful. Um, and even to your point, earlier, if I can speak to it, uh I started working with a couple last year who they have a really strong income. I think it was$500,000, and now$600. And the husband is really keen on freedom by 50, freedom by 50, which is like super early. Um, and the wife is struggling because she knows they make so much money, but they don't feel like they're able to live like and I'm like, yeah. You have the ability to live an inflated lifestyle or retire at 50. You can do whichever you want, but you're not gonna be able to do both. And that's where it had been interesting because um they had been saving, but definitely not like probably enough to have a normal retirement, but they didn't realize the stakes when you have that much income, how much you actually need to save. Um, because when your lifestyle is up, that's a lot more money you need. Um but the framework, yeah, so it really depends on the family and and how they present as well as what's important to them. But there's kind of two main types that I see. Um, the first is lots of debt or no debt. There's very few that are like in between because based on their personalities, if you're debt averse, you tend to tackle that first. Um, and if you're not, well, you don't. And so I have this process where the problem with debt is not only that it's a negative on the balance sheet, but it's also a monthly restriction because there's payments that you have to make from a minimum perspective. And so I go to great lengths to determine um, you know, what's your long-term goals, like we've discussed, how much you need to save to get there, and what are the barriers to getting to that point? And sometimes it's an 18 to 24 month process of cleaning up some of these different areas. And I ask them, where do you think this money should come from? Like you need to save an additional probably$2,400 a month. And sometimes they're like, oh yeah, we're blowing money like crazy. Like it can come out of our lifestyle expenses, no problem. That's happened. It's very rare. Most people don't go there, but it can happen. And other people at times are like, okay, well, it's like let's address this debt. And so um, I tend to kind of put it around if it's somewhere, you know, if it's in that four to five percent range, I'm not as urgent about it, depending on their own perspective on debt. If it's above six or seven or higher, I tend to earmark this as like this is a priority, I think, for you guys to tackle this. Um, just because of the interest working against you, even if you have the quote unquote average returns of seven or eight percent, if it's a guaranteed negative return above that, let's tackle that first. And then we can free up um the rest of the cash flow. So for me, I look at it like an annual process where I start and I say, our foundations are still strong for our circumstances. Here's our cash flow for this year, 2026. Um, have our circumstances change that would impact our investments. And I'm big on time horizon. If you need the money now, we are gonna be more conservative. If you need it for 20, 30 years from now, we don't have to worry about what's happening in the world and whether or not there's Middle East conflict that's affecting your stock portfolio because we don't need the money right now. Like, that's okay. We're gonna give it the best chance to go. Um, so the framework I have clients think about is let's understand very clearly where we're at, understand where we want to go, at least for now, because goals can change. Um, and then we understand what it takes to get there. And most of the time it's a percentage of their cash flow that they need to save with some return assumptions thrown in there. And then I say, have fun with the rest of it. And it's kind of like this freedom and boundaries perspective. Because it's like, to your point, it's I guess it's similar to the bucket strategy that a business owner might use, but it's not quite that way. Where if they're checking their long-term trajectory boxes, like then you can decide what you want to do with the rest. For some people, that's going on more extravagant vacations. Some people, it's saving up for nicer vehicles. Other people, it's just eating out more or enjoying more local entertainment. Like people have different proclivities. And for me, a lot of that tends to be helping them balance those things. Because if we've already checked the box on long-term savings, now it's like, oh, but I want to go on extravagant vacations, drive nicer cars, and experience all of the things. I'm like, okay, well, maybe we needed to decide what's most important and have some trade-offs here. And so I think for people, when they realize it's within the plan, they might be bummed and wish they made more money. But there's a sense of like, oh, this makes sense. It's clear. I understand what my trade-offs are, and at least I can enjoy this thing guilt-free. Whereas maybe historically I would have either not done the thing at all because I wanted to be safe, or I would have done it and then been secretly afraid that I was ruining my family's future. Right. Right. Those are the ways there.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Yeah. Well, and this is the thing, too, because it leads to my next question. And it's like, you know, how much we touched on this, how much of personal finance success is math and strategy, and how much is behavior and mindset? Because, you know, the the the math and strategy is easy, but the behavior and mindset, that's the stuff that's hard, you know?

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Agreed. That's where I think for most of my clients, they would be fine. Like they would end up okay. Like I'm not changing their lives. Yeah. Um, like when I say they've they've got their got 80% of the buckets changed, I think the financial outcome exceeds the price they pay me for my service.

unknown 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Um, and there's a significant value in knowing that they're not missing anything. Um but that's only true if they lived the whole time. They didn't experience the unexpected things because a lot of them have those missing gaps. You know, assuming everything goes fine for them, they'd be fine. They'll figure it out. Like most people are like survived. You know, like not everyone is thriving, but like people find a way to get food and like find a place to live. Like in the United States, that's not true for everyone. So forgive me if I'm offending someone with that. But like, if you're you know making a significant income and you're doing the best you can, like you'll probably end up okay. But what a lot of what I offer them is confidence that they are, and then actual technical changes that like might have financial implications in the rounding of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of their lifetime, right? So, but in that case, it might be they might die with$10 million instead of you know five million. So either in either case is quote unquote successful, and I'm not suggesting that they should die with that much money. The point is um they've got the green light, it's just a matter of um how green it is, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

Right? I like that, depending on how green it is, you know. I and I think that one of the things too is as people start refining their mindset and getting people things in place, focusing on their why. Yep, there is that balance of life, you know, and and I think that that's one of the things too is like we build for the future, we do all these things, but you have to remember today is a good day, and you're living it, you know. And how can you find that that balance? One of the things my daughter vomiting everywhere a couple hours ago, like it was not fun. Uh, she's had a stomach four the last couple of days, and I made a post about it on LinkedIn. It was a lot of vomit, it was projectile vomiting. And she looked at me, she's like, Is am I gonna be sick forever? And I was like, No, no, it sucks today, but tomorrow you'll feel better, and the day after that, you'll feel even better. But the things that you can do right now to feel better, number one, rest, get to bed. And she's like, But I have tests coming up. And I said, and if we have to get you know, permission for you to push those back, we push them back. You're in fourth grade, kid. Like, it is not the end of the world to have a test taken on a different day. It is okay. And but like what we were talking to her about is, and I think that one of the things though, too, is again, I I talk, we think that the way we interact with kids, children and adults should be so different. But the reality is I think up here, most of us still have the same mindset that a lot of kids do. You know, we're fearful, we feel overwhelmed, and we don't necessarily know how to handle things. And like we're busy adulting, but we're still trying to figure it out. And I think one of the things that I try to remember is that is to take those. Yeah, I love the whole stoic dichotomy of control. What can I control and what can I not? And then what can I do today? You know, I have a list of things that my financial advisor needs me to get done. And I was overwhelmed the last week, and I just messaged her. I said, I am knocking these things off one at a time tomorrow. And she's she's awesome like that. And she's like, Sean, I know what you're dealing with. I saw your post about the vomit everywhere, and we're good. But, you know, I think that when you can sit there and you can start breaking things down, but again, that's where we got to bring the humanity back into the financial enterprises. That's where we got to bring that that humanity into this because I'm not hiring my financial advisor because she's the best at the spreadsheets. I'm hiring her because when we had a conversation, she helped me feel safe. She helped me sit there and think about the fact that I can get through this and that I can get to a better place for my family. And that if we make these little steps, we'll get there. And I that's where I'm like, I'm all about the humanity and financial advising, man, because we need it.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

I agree. And I think about that a lot. Like, I think sometimes advisors can be in such a rush to prove their value, myself including, that I think of the 17 things that would be better if they did them. And I remember, you know, I just gotta say thank you to my first ever clients because they sat through like a two-hour and 15-minute meeting where I presented all 17 things and I overwhelmed them. It was terrible. And I don't do that anymore. It was a learning experience. But, you know, I've got you know some clients where it's like there is a lot that needs to happen. And it's not gonna happen at once. In fact, yeah, like right now, we need to get to the point where you're saving 15%. But for now, we're gonna tackle debt pretty aggressively. And then when you get a raise, we're gonna increase your 41k savings by 1%. And that's gonna be a meaningful step. And then two years from now, we're gonna be like, wow, we've gotten so far. And you know, at first I kind of struggled with that. Then I was like, well, imagine I didn't start working with them for two years from now and they just started. Like, would that be have been too late for them to start getting their finances addressed? No, of course not. You know, most people go like through all most of their adulthood without even working with a professional. And so if it's a baby step, if you'll forgive the line, um, if it's a small step in the right direction, um that's great. And I think part of that too for them is saying, hey, actually, it's okay. This might take two years, but that is you're doing the best you can with what you have right now. And I think that's like, oh, okay. Thank you. Because all they feel is shame, right? Shame for the decisions they made that got into this point, shame for not having enough money, for not making enough money. And I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in in that. And uh, I'm just saying, well, what are we, what can we do today?

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Yeah, that's it, man. If I can could go back, I always ask this question to my clients, and I'm gonna share my answer today, because I never ask myself this question. If I could go back in time and give my younger self some advice, the first advice I give myself is first of all, to tell myself, you know, what can I do today? What can we do today to head in the right direction? And if we can do that consistently, you make big moves. And the second thing is find your team, find the people that can stand around you and help you become better. Because if you can do that, the sky's the limit, you know?

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is such a good question. My mind immediately went to finances and I was like, no, I actually liked the way that I thought about it when I was younger. I spent my last dollar when I was living in South Africa because I knew one day I'll make more money and it's fine. Um, and I've kind of had that MO for a long time. But the things that I regret as I look back was not acting on moments of discomfort or knowing that I wasn't in the right place or on the right team uh sooner. Like I was in a career where it was uncomfortable and I knew that I didn't want the path that this career had, but I was like, they just offered me another$5,000. You know, like I don't want to leave it now. Um, so I think there was some missed time for. Not paying attention to that. And that's not to say you shouldn't be in uncomfortable situations, but there's you know, there's a a trend that's been growing recently that I I think is beautiful. And it's like, is this discomfort stretching you or is it confining you? Right. And if it's confining you and you feel smaller, that's something where you might not want to lean into it. But if it's stretching you in an uncomfortable way and it's calling you up to a higher version that maybe you haven't even experienced yet, like you can lean into that discomfort. And that would be what I would want to tell my younger self. Because there were a few times where I just stayed in situations longer than I should have, or even entered into ones that I had some reservations about just because it was paying me more money, you know. And uh you know, I forgive myself for doing that because it was gonna turn down more money when you're in your 20s. But um those are things I I'm more saying to that to myself right now, because even as you grow a business, it's tempting to make exceptions for clients who'll pay you more money when it feels like maybe there's not alignment, as we've discussed previously. Yeah, it's hard to fire a client. Like I am choosing to reduce my pay. That's not hey, we don't want to do that. That's against the business model a little bit. So yeah. Um but to your point about life, like it's too short to be surrounded by people who don't um help you grow or at least make it more enjoyable. Should be one of those two things.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Right. Where can people go to find out more about what you do and uh the services you offer?

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Sure. So uh I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, Ryan Johnson. Um there's like 48 advisors named Ryan Johnson, and probably 110,000 people are named Ryan Johnson. Um I've been working really hard to build up my SEO, but um, if you look at Ryan Johnson CFP B F A, you'll find me. Uh, and then my website, 100fp.com. That's h U N D R E D F P dot com. Um there's more about my business, and I'm I'll I'm a little bit behind on my blog, but I tend to post my thoughts uh on there on a monthly basis.