Growing Money with Sean Trace

The Real Flex | Lillian Turner | Growing Money with Sean Trace

• Sean Trace

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In this episode, I sit down with CFP and registered life planner Lillian Turner to talk about the deeper side of money, from financial literacy and money trauma to debt, happiness, values, and what it really means to build wealth. 

We get into why so many people think they are bad with money when they were simply never taught, how coaching and financial planning can work together, and why true financial freedom is about more than just saving and investing. We also unpack the connection between money and meaning, the difference between return on investment and return on life, and how to spend in a way that actually aligns with what matters most. This conversation goes far beyond budgeting, 401(k)s, debt, and investing strategies. It is about using money as a tool to create a life that feels rich in experiences, purpose, and fulfillment. 

If you have ever wrestled with scarcity, guilt, financial overwhelm, or the pressure to follow someone else’s definition of success, this episode will give you a fresh perspective on wealth, happiness, and living intentionally.


SPEAKER_02

I'm a big believer in that you get to enjoy your money, which is like I've like the opposite of Dave Ramsey, right? He's like, you can't even go into a restaurant if you have a dollar of debt. I'm like, no. Um, and a lot of it is personal experience. Like I've lost many people in my life who um have worked their entire lives and saved all this money and you know, saved, saved, saved, invested, invested, invested, and then died before they could even enjoy that money. And the point of money to me, like money isn't a goal, right? The goal isn't to stockpile money in your bank account. The goal is to use money as a tool to help you live the most fulfilling and meaningful version of your life possible, both now and in the future. And so, how can we use money now in a really fulfilling and values-aligned way? But also, how can we balance saving for the future? Because of course, hopefully you do live to a hundred and you want to have that discipline and that nest egg saved away. But we can always make more money and we can't always have more time. So for me, it's a very like delicate balance. Um, I read a book actually, Sean, that maybe you would you would like. It's called Die With Zero by Bill Perkins. Have you heard of it?

SPEAKER_01

Welcome everybody back to the Growing Money with Sean Face Podcast. I have an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people a little bit about who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Hello. Uh thank you, Sean, for having me on. I'm so excited to be here. My name is Lillian Turner. I am a certified financial planner and a registered life planner. And I run my own financial life planning and coaching practice called Daring Greatly Wealth. I've been in the industry for about seven or eight years. Um, and I also serve on the Financial Planning Association as our national next gen president going into 2026, which is super exciting. So love, love what I do.

SPEAKER_01

That's really exciting. Like one of the things that I really enjoy that my profess my friend Professor Heath works, he's a university professor, not a not a financial planner. Uh he was an accountant, but he teaches financial planning to junior college students. And one of the things that he he talks about in his podcast is, you know, uh, some people didn't grow up with this information, you know, how to be good with money, you know, and it's like, you know, and we see you see so many people say, I'm not good with money. But like the reality is, is that's like a it's not a great statement because it's not that they're not good or bad with money. They just don't know about money.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They don't know.

SPEAKER_02

We're not taught it in schools. Our parents aren't teaching us. So how on earth would we know? I think we put this print on ourselves to know, but there's no way that we would know unless we took it into our own hands and took initiative to learn some of this stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Which is, which is one of the beautiful things that, you know, the so social media has its, it's its high points and its low points. But one of the high points is the fact that there is this ability to access information. You can go on YouTube and find out, you know, what is a raw IRA? What's a 401k? You know, what are these things? But I have a question for you because it kind of ties into what we're talking about here. What was your biggest aha moment with money? The one that changed how you think about wealth or success. What was your aha moment with money?

SPEAKER_02

That's such a good question, Sean. I have so many like pieces of my money story, if you will. Um it's hard to pinpoint like one specifically, but I will say growing up for me, money was a very um negative concept. It was something my parents would argue about, would scream about. And when you talk about like lack of financial knowledge, like that was my parents growing up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and so I think I grew up thinking like, oh, money's a bad thing. Like I would say my parents worked so hard, but no matter how hard they worked, there was never enough to provide for my family.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so just kind of grew up with that money script too, of like, oh, I can work as hard as I want, but there's never gonna be enough. It was money scarcity at its core, right? And so this followed me in college, and I ended up getting into what felt at the time like pretty significant credit card debt. Um, it was, you know, maybe like five to ten thousand, like not a lot by today's standards, sadly. Yeah. But at the time, um and I was working three jobs, you know, full-time student, but was just living above my means and didn't, again, have like the financial literacy. Um, but again, learn firsthand like the dangers of credit cards, which was great. Um, that was, yeah, a really helpful lesson to have. But even like I was a finance major, right? And there was no personal finance classes. It was all about like investment banking and how to analyze a stock. Well, they weren't teaching you like the basics of investing or insurance or estate planning, which felt like a really huge gap. And it was also so, so focused on the technical. And so yeah. And you can have all the knowledge you want, but also the implementation, like you've got to have some sort of kind of emotional connection or vision that'll help you in order to actually implement what you're learning or to take action on some of this really overwhelming information.

SPEAKER_01

You just got me thinking about something. Yeah. So I I taught kids for a long time. I was a children's teacher as a side hustle for many years in Asia. One of the things that they talk about, like psychologists talk about like this this, this thing. Like there was this study I saw. They they they put kids in a room and they they they put cookies on the table. Like, you know what's gonna happen, right? You know, it's like, but one of the things is like I I know my nine-year-old daughter. If when she was younger, I could go, all right, Alani, we're gonna run through this. Yes, daddy. Uh there's gonna be cookies on the table. This is a picture of the cookie. Yes, I got it. The cookies, I'm gonna leave them alone in the room, alone in the room, and you I'm not gonna be here, and you you're not supposed to eat them. Yes, daddy. Okay. These are what the cookies look like. You you got this. Yes. All right. And then I walk out of the room and I can tell you what will happen to those cookies. Because it's it's it's cerebral, you know? And it's like, it's not like actual practical. My daughter's learning piano right now. Okay. She's been doing this for a while and she's getting better, but she's really gifted with her memory, and she remembers all her songs, and she's so stubborn, and she doesn't want to do sight reading. So we have a teacher who's teaching her and she's like, What is this flashcard? It's A, what's that this flashcard? That's B, what's this flashcard? And she's able to name all the notes. And I the other day I talked to my teacher, to her teacher, and she's like, I'm showing her the notes, and she's able to read them. And I said, Can she find them on the piano? And the teacher's like, Well, I believe so. And I said, No, she can't. And that's the problem, is because you can have all of this theoretical knowledge. You can have all of this stuff in your head, but when it goes time to like, ooh, we got it coming up in a couple of weeks, Black Friday, and everyone's gonna be like, yay! You know, it's really hard to implement because it's theoretical, but it's not practical.

SPEAKER_02

That's such a good analogy, Sean. I love that. And I think too, the maybe a slight different element is like when it comes to investing, there's a lot of pressure. Like it's a really big deal, and people are afraid of making mistakes around that. And the industry and the world makes it seem like so complex. And like we get this analysis, paralysis overwhelm. We even think about it for a lot of us, even if we have some base level education. So just yeah, the accountability, maybe having like a little a buddy, someone to help you, or like show you step by step how you do it, because you can binge all the TikTok videos, but it's not going to necessarily get you to take action on what you're learning.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, 100%. It's that practical. And I I love the idea of a money buddy, man. I wish there was a whole program of that where you could find a money buddy. But when when you were talking about um, you know, when I was reading your bio, one of the things that you said is you're you're not just a financial planner, you're like a coach and a mentor. And, you know, and like how much, how much we need that, you know? Talk to me about that. Why did you find that? And how does that become a reality in your client relationship?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So a few different things here. I think part of it, John, is I worked at three different corporate firms throughout my corporate career before launching my own business. And I noticed a similar problem. And that was as the advisor, we'd craft this, you know, beautiful, somewhat cookie-cutter financial plan. It would say, you know, max out your 401k and then put money in your H site, yada yada. And we'd hand this like 200-page document to clients, but nothing would get done to again to the implementation. They wouldn't do anything because they had like no emotional buy-in to why we were doing this, and they didn't have like the accountability or the support around implementation. And they'd pay like 10 grand a year, right? 1% of asset center management to meet with an advisor once a year, and then nothing would get done, and it'd be like Groundhog Day every single year. Like, oh, did you get your estate plan done? No. Did you get your estate plan? No, because they weren't implementing. And another like kind of comment that I would get from from like bosses or whatever would be like, Oh, you are um, you're like too hands-on with clients, or you spend too much time with clients. And I'm like, But they need, they need support with your money, right?

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And so part of me has this resistance to calling myself a coach because I am a CFP that's gonna be like on my gravestone someday, Lillian Turner CFP, because I really relate to being a financial planner. But coaching is the style of how I help people because we need more in-depth work around money often. Um, they say that we form all of our internal beliefs around money before the age of seven, and they're so ingrained in us through adulthood that it takes a lot of work to kind of overcome and rewire some of these money scripts or beliefs that are holding us back. And a lot of the time we don't even realize that they're holding us back. And so I bring in some of my financial therapy tools and some of my coaching tools, some motivational interviewing things, some financial planning technical expertise to really help navigate my clients and help them build wealth. So it's a very approach, but it works wonders.

SPEAKER_01

It it is, you know, and I I I know that like I know you're not a, you know, like the the whole coaching term has like this, this, this thing to it. But like at the end of the day, man, coaching in and of itself is the it is the process of guiding someone to a desired goal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, and I think that we need to redefine that. Like the idea of like, it's gotten this like, you know, and I know that there's a bunch of people out there that go, I'm a coach, I'm gonna go this, and like people go, oh, but they don't have any training. But come on, man. We need to reown the fact that that word, though, is a beautiful, beautiful word. Because it's like, you think about that. I remember when and and also a coach is a person who sees potential in someone. When I played sports, when I got pulled onto the team when I was a freshman in high school, I was this gangly kid that just wallah, you know, went around like this. But there was a coach who sat there and said, I know this kid, I can see the potential in him. And then he was able to get me from here to here. And that's the beauty of a coach is they're the person who can see your potential and go, you know what? No one has that grit built into them. Everyone has to have it kind of pulled out of them. You know, and it's like, because at the end of the day, if you want to start growing those cookies in that cookie jar like my daughter does, yeah, certainly, you know, the joy of eating them is important, but it's also important to say, hey, Eilani, we're gonna eat one today. And then tomorrow we'll bake some more and we we can add to that cookie jar. And there'll be even more that you can share with your friends. But the secret is you can't eat them all right away.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Now, my point being, you know, she can't get there on her own. Right. She needs someone to coach her, to guide her. And whoever says that you're spending too much time helping a client, my goodness, we need more people that spend time helping people get to where they want to be and need to be.

SPEAKER_02

Agreed. The industry has changed a lot, even in my seven, eight tenure tenure in the field. And I have a lot of hope for where it's going, but it's still very much kind of 1930s, stock jock, um, you know, riddling annuities to clients on the phone, and the industry gets a bad rap for a reason. And so that's one of the reasons that I kind of created my own path in this field was that I wasn't seeing any firms doing what I wanted to do or serving clients how I wanted to or how they needed to be served. But I do have a lot of faith that going forward, Sean, there's gonna be a lot more advisors that are like this behavior change coach or financial therapist or life coach kind of approach to financial planning versus just like the technical, the analyst, the, you know, cool guy in a suit in a freezing cold conference room, like man explaining the stock market to you. Like, that's not helping anyone. And so she's gonna catch up eventually.

SPEAKER_01

I I I found my um financial uh planner, SCFB, through some videos that he was making. And they were really interesting videos because he talked about the union between wellness and money. And I was just like, yeah. And he's like, you know what? You're not wealthy if you're not taking care of your your your whole body as well. And he's like, we need to plan your money, but we also need to plan how you can handle, you know, the mental challenges that you're dealing with with all the stress. And he's like, You get out into the gym because you know what? If you're healthier, you can work and you can do more things and you can take that energy into that. But it was like, I saw it and I was like, this is different than this, than what I had been seeing of like just cookie cutter money. And I was just like, so I have hope too, because I think there are some people out there doing some awesome things.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and you would know, Sean, because you're talking to so many of us financial planners. So I'm sure you see a lot of trends.

SPEAKER_01

It's super cool. And like there's so many cool people. And I I like, but this is the other thing too. There is there's a flavor for everyone. You know, like no two people are gonna need the same thing. Everyone's gonna need a little bit of a different type of relationship. And you have to find the person that's right for you.

SPEAKER_02

Agreed. And I also think advisors need to be more customized or tailored in some of their approaches. For me, it's very much I call it like choose your own adventure vibe when you work with me. I can be, you know, your tough love coach, your hype man, like your partner in crime, your, you know, your best friend. Like I can play different roles, but I also tailor like our meeting structure and how we structure our meetings based on what you need and your time commitments and whatever else you have going on. And so many advisors. Again, cookie cutter, same thing every single time. And it's there's no customization. Not every client like works that way or learns that way. And so it's really important to know your client on a deeper level to be able to help them in the best way that you can.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. Yeah. Well, I I'm gonna go a little different direction. But I I I liked something you said earlier. Um now there was with money and happiness. How do you see money and happiness interacting? What's the dance those two play?

SPEAKER_02

Ooh, I love that question, Sean. I'm a big believer in that you get to enjoy your money, which is like I'd like the opposite of Dave Ramsey, right? He's like, you can't even go into a restaurant if you have a dollar of debt. I'm like, no. Um, and a lot of it is personal experience. Like I've lost many people in my life who um have worked their entire lives and saved all this money and you know, saved, saved, saved, invested, invested, invested, and then died before they could even enjoy that money. And the point of money to me, like money isn't a goal, right? The goal isn't to stockpile money in your bank account. The goal is to use money as a tool to help you live the most fulfilling and meaningful version of your life possible, both now and in the future. And so, how can we use money now in a really fulfilling and values-aligned way? But also, how can we balance saving for the future? Because of course, hopefully you do live to 100 and you want to have that discipline and that nest egg saved away. But we can always make more money and we can't always have more time. So for me, it's a very like delicate balance. Um, I read a book actually, Sean, that maybe you would you would like. It's called Die With Zero by Bill Perkins. Have you heard of it?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I haven't, but I'm gonna, it's on my list now, man.

SPEAKER_02

Do it. It changed my life. It just talks about really like enjoying your money while you can, you know, in a response.

SPEAKER_01

This is I I I'm a I'm a bit out there, but like I studied in my in university, I studied um like Eastern philosophy. I studied world religions and Zen, and I I love Zen Buddhism. And the idea was because it just met with reality for me in so many ways of the way I kind of perceive the world. And there's this one mantra that's called Gate Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhisatt. Okay, now let me explain what that means. And it it talks about like the flow of time. Gone, gone, further gone, forever gone, enlightenment come. And so it talks about like no matter what you you deal with, whether it's good or bad, we uh a little bit, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go a little way to get maybe get a little emotional here, but I gotta be careful. Um we have I love dogs, and we had rescued a dog a couple years ago, and uh her name is Nai, which in Vietnamese means deer, she's the sweetest little thing, and we rescued her from a bad situation, and uh she has been having a great, great time with us. We noticed she lost a little bit of weight, and so we took her to the vet and found out that she's got some kidney problems, she has a tumor in her liver, and um, you know, the vet was like, we're not sure about the prognosis. And I mean when you hear those things, you you know, you know, it's not the greatest time frame. Yeah, but what we know, and I talked to my wife and my daughter today, I was like, we gave her a lot of good things, but you time goes fast, faster than any of us can realize. I was watching this video or a post today, and it's like um it was looking at the age of people in the Lord of the Rings, and it's like Vigo Mordenson, who played Aragorn, I'm dating myself, he's a 69. You know, he's you know, and Ian McClellan's almost in his 90s. The guy who played Frodo was like in his almost in the 50s, and it's like time flies, you know, it flies. And you're right. The other year, my wife and I had this decision. We were, did we save extra money, or we had the chance to go and visit my my a family member in Hawaii. And my daughter, you know, we went, we were like, well, we need to save, but this is a really important thing. We might not be able to have this again. And we went there, and my daughter had these core memories. She got to swim, and we were bodyboarding, and there was a a sea turtle that swam around her in a circle. Wow the other day, right? And she came up and she's like, You remember that time we went to the beach and the sea turtle swam around me? If we've only focused on, and I mean, I certainly am not where I need to be for my retirement, I'll admit that. Yeah, but that that sea turtle adventure was worth it, you know? And so I think there is this balance that people have to find and what aligns with your values. I love that you talked about the values. And that's something that I want more people talking about.

SPEAKER_02

It's so poor, Sean. I kind of call this conversation like instead of the ROI, the return on investment for your money, what's the ROL? What's the return on life with your money? Right? I'm ready a book right now.

SPEAKER_01

I already know what this video is gonna be called, man. ROL is gonna be the return on life. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

But part of that goes back to like it's really important to know what your core values are and to make sure that they're in alignment with where you're spending your money. Cause a lot of the times we spend money on things like convenience, like Uber Eats or DoorDash or whatever equivalent you have in Vietnam. Um, and when we we notice that that's actually where our money is going, we're like, oh, that's actually not in alignment with me. Like I'd rather have the experience of cooking at home or spend, you know, more on money on travel, but less on dining. And then we realize that it's a really powerful shift and it increases that ROL because we know that our money is being spent in alignment. It makes it more fulfilling. We get less of that like buyer's remorse, or like, you know, we have that dopamine hit for three seconds when you buy that Instagram ad, whatever that, you know, Facebook told you that you needed, but you regret it, or you know, it lasts three seconds. You get more of that meaningful, fulfilling, lasting joy from your money, and that's what you want more of and less of like the quick hits.

SPEAKER_01

Right. I like I I bought something recently, and then I sat down afterwards and I was just like, I thought about that, and I was like, that just didn't equal what I thought it was gonna equal. Like I I thought that there was gonna be more Marie Kondo. Does it bring you joy? You know, and it didn't bring me joy. It was pretty cool. There's a couple seconds of joy, but it didn't work out the way I wanted. And I sat down and I thought about, I was like, you know, how can I in the future sit there and really have a gauge of what amount of joy that brings? And for me, I finally realized it's not things, it's experiences. And I have to really shift towards making sure I remember that because I love things, but when I get them, they just don't bring me the same as joy that an experience does, you know? So but that's that's for me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but I think that's very common, Sean, for so many of us. Like it really is experiences or uh like if we were to close our eyes and think a picture of the things that make us feel the happiest, it's probably gonna be like friends and family or being outside, you know, like it's things that don't cost a lot of money, oftentimes at the end of the day, which is really interesting, but we think we need all of these like fancy cars and houses and the latest iPhone, because that's what society tells us we need, or we're trying to keep up with the Joneses. But when we look internally versus externally, we realize what's really important to us. And it's often not very much financially at all. It's yeah, just experiences of being with others and being in community.

SPEAKER_01

There was this great quote. Like, if you uh I thought I I'm gonna slaughter. I can't remember quotes. I'm just gonna say that right now. So every time I paraphrase everything. But like there was this one guy that quote that this person said that you you go into a to a retirement home and talk to people there. Not many people are gonna tell you they regret the thing. You know, I regret that I didn't buy that when I was 47. Most people are gonna say, I regret that I didn't take this trip. I regret that I didn't have this experience, I regret that I didn't say this thing.

SPEAKER_02

That I worked too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right, you know.

SPEAKER_02

There's a really good book. Book called The Five Regrets of Dying by Bonnie Ware. And she talks about that. She was like a hospice care nurse. And so she tells you, she walks you through. I this is we can talk about this all you want. I'm the biggest fan of like talking about money and mortality and death. Like there's so much synergy there. But also it can be too much for people or too, you know, shocking or like just really uncomfortable to talk about that. But I think it's so related.

SPEAKER_01

I think one of the things that people I had a I had a very, I got really, really sick before I moved back to Vietnam. 2011. I had a viral heart infection. And I was in the hospital and I did not feel good. I could not walk up a set of stairs. And, you know, I felt like my heart was all swollen and big. It just every time I walked, it was not a fun experience. And there was one night there that I was struggling through the night. And I was like, if I don't make it, what happens? Yeah. And I got this profound sense of peace. Like it was a nice, nice side effect of that. I kind of got this peace because I made peace with it. I was just like, and then when I got better, every day was a gift. And when I had my daughter, you know, I sat there and I said, you know, every single day that I get to spend with this kid is a gift. And my daughter and I were driving today, and we, I don't know why we got on to it, but she asked me a question and we started talking about life and death. And I said, you know, well, all of us die someday. It is the way it is. But what that doesn't matter. What matters is what you day do with the days that you have. And I said, We're not dead today. She's like, I hope something doesn't die. And I'm like, Well, I'm not dead today. So let's have a fun day. Let's make it good. Let's make it important, you know? Enjoy. And I think that, right? If you if you don't think about it, in I also love stoicism. And they have a philosophy called Memento Mori. Yes. Memento Mori is thinking on the fact that at some point in time, we're all gonna die. You're gonna be done. And what do you want to do with the time, right? Yeah. Talk to me about it.

SPEAKER_02

I have so I'm a registered life planner. RLP is the credentials. And in the RLP program, it's um taught by a wonderful man named George Kinder, who's kind of the father of financial life planning. But he gives you kind of a set of exercises that you use with clients. And so my entire service model is built around his model. It's called Evoke. And in one of the meetings called the Vision Meeting, we go through an exercise called the Three Questions. And it starts really high level. It's like you wake up tomorrow, you have all the money in the world. You know, what would you do with it? How would you spend your money? And you get like, oh, I'd buy a yacht, you know, I'd buy my mom a house, like I'd retire. Um the second question is you go to the doctor and he tells you that you have five to 10 years left to live. You're not gonna feel sick. You won't know when it's happening, but you have five to 10 years. What are you gonna do? And it narrows down a little bit, like, oh, maybe I'd, you know, still buy a house, but I'm also gonna take that big trip to Europe that I always wanted to take. And then that very final question, Sean, is um, you're told that you have um, you know, 24 hours left to live. What did you miss? Who did you not get to be? What did you not get to do? And it forces you to confront that very real possibility of mortality. And I've seen some crazy life shifts after taking clients through that three questions exercise specifically, because it makes you puts you in that mind sp that mindset or headspace of like, if I were to die tomorrow, like, you know, what did I not get to be? And it's not so much the regrets, but it's like the untapped potential of like what could I have to do with that I didn't get.

SPEAKER_01

Right. I when I when I leaned into doing more of my podcasts, I was sitting there going, you know, at the end of the day, this, these podcasts, all of the different podcasts I've started, there's quite a few of them, were based on the idea that I wanted to make some videos so that someday I will be gone. And I hopefully will live into my hundreds. You know, I want to be that crouchity grumpy old guy. Of course.

SPEAKER_00

Just sitting there, what's going on with the world? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, get up my yard. That'd be wonderful. It'd be fun to be that person and laugh it off. But like, I wanted to create these podcasts. So at some point in time, one of the things I noticed with my parents is I I love talking to them, but like I wish that I could talk to 40-year-old then. I wish I could talk to the younger version of them. Because the wisdom they had, the challenges they had, you know, now they're tired. And like, you know, it's they they don't have the same ability to have that conversation that I would like to have. And I started this for my daughter, but the whole point was I sat there and I said, well, maybe I can. Maybe I just put it off. And, you know, there are many times where I get tired and I'm like, you know, maybe I should just reschedule this. And I sit there and I go, maybe, who knows what happens tomorrow. Maybe, you know, I'm driving down the street, truck comes along, and that's it for me. And the idea is like, I started really focusing on like really what can I do to make an impact? And I think that, but that was aligned with my values. And my health experience took me through that same process that that Dr. Kender took you through. And by the way, George Kender is one of the nicest people I've ever met. One of my favorite guests that I've had on my podcast. He is absolutely awesome. I'm obsessed with it. He's such a nice person.

SPEAKER_02

Obsessed with him. It was we was really cool with the evoke training that I did. We were in Hana, Hawaii, in his house for a week. And like to be in his space, to meditate with him by the by the water. There's like no internet, no air conditioning. Like you're really detached from the world, which I think we needed. And just to like be in his presence was so powerful.

SPEAKER_01

100%.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_01

One of the top. Yeah, I loved Mike. And we talked about like, because I had just gotten back from my trip to Hawaii. Okay. And he's like, yeah, because all of it was like, and he, he, yeah, such a great guy. But it is so powerful. And the, the, and I mean, when you get to the the these deeper concepts, and when I I'm gonna use the word spiritual, but not necessarily when you're talking about Zen and this state of like your own understanding of something bigger than you. Like the idea of like, what is it that I want to be and do and be like, we're talking about this. Like, how do you want to be? That's what I said to my daughter. How do you want to be remembered? Yesterday, um, and this is again how I live my life, and I'm talking about other things, but it's still, I think, something that is tied into finances as well. Um, with my daughter, we were driving home, and every single day I try to be an example of what I think that I can model for her a better path, a nicer path. We were driving home, and there was a guy trying to cross the street, Ho Chi Minh City, busy traffic, and he was blind. And I quickly, I was like, it the no one was stopping for him. Yeah. I just was like, I really pulled over to the side of the road and I said, Stay right here. Don't get off the bike, just stay right here. And I walked the man across the street, didn't say anything, just quietly walked next to him as he walked and just kind of blocked traffic. And then I walked back, got on my bike, and we drove off. And my daughter was like, Why, why did you do that? And I said, Because someone needs to. Like, no one else was doing it, and I wanted to be that person. Now, why I'm bringing that up on a financial podcast is one of the things that I think is really important is your why. Like for me, I'm very clear on my why. My why is to kind of create a little bundle of goodness in the world that I can. But maybe your why is to experience the taste of Italy. And that's your thing, you know? And it doesn't have to be my why. My why can be my why. Your why can be your why. Maybe your why is to like, I want to ride every hot air balloon site that I can around the world. And if that's your why, go do it. Yeah. Go find that.

SPEAKER_02

What are you waiting for?

SPEAKER_01

But don't what are you waiting for? Like, find out what your why is and chase it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. But I think the problem with the financial planning space is advisors aren't helping clients uncover their purpose or their why or their reason for being. And so they can't allow their money with it because they don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_01

And so it's kind of Because we're not coaching people.

SPEAKER_02

We're not coaching them. And we're not just sitting with them and giving them the space to lean into that. I think so often we're not given permission to dream as adults. Like as a kid, kid, we encourage kids so much to dream. You can be anything you want to be. But as soon as you graduate college, it's like, okay, be realistic, pick a reasonable job, work nine to five till 65, and then die. Like it's so, you know, American dream. Like you have to have a wet picket fence and own a home in your 30s and have 2.5 kids. But it's like, what if you don't want that? But we're not given the space to realize whether or not we want that. So we just kind of automatically go down that path and then eventually realize it's not making us happy, oftentimes.

SPEAKER_01

And I I think that you point on something because kids have this ability to dream.

SPEAKER_02

They do.

SPEAKER_01

Whereas adults, we have all of these limiting beliefs. Like there's a lot of stuff that gets put in there, you know, and I and it's around the people that are around you. I noticed that like this last this last summer, I really kind of worked a lot of my core beliefs. And it was interesting because a lot of the people that I had been talking to just weren't there. And it wasn't that I that they were bringing me down or anything. It was just like as I shifted my beliefs, I found less things to talk to, these same people about. It was like we we we surround ourselves by people with the same cookie cutters. We we we get into these bubbles that are uh limiting in ways, because uh we I don't know if we feel safe, but you know, we get those money beliefs early on. But let me ask you this what's a final b financial belief that you had to unlearn?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think like I mentioned before, no matter how hard you work, like there's never gonna be enough. I completely have rewired that and reframed that in my life to like there's always enough money. Money is abundant, it's everywhere, money flows to me. I can earn a really high income doing exactly what I love. And that's possible for everyone. To your point, Sean, I love that. Like, we don't realize that it's possible for us to not have to work a corporate desk job if we don't want to. Like, there are so many other opportunities, and we just don't think it's possible because maybe we don't see it or we're not given the space and permission to dream, or we're like, oh, must be nice. Like couldn't be me, but it could be you. It totally could be you. And so I try to walk the talk and like show because my journey from corporate America where it's miserable to entrepreneur has been like a complete 180. And so I try to be super transparent on social media and share my story and pour belief into others of like you can do this, and here's how, and here's the power of starting to invest really early, even if it's five dollars a month. Um, because for me that was so core to taking that leap of freedom. Um, and building not just financial freedom, but time freedom is so so beneficial. Did that answer your question? Because I can go, I can do more.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, it's awesome. It is, and it it's like I I love that I love the financial freedom and the time freedom as well. And I I do think that there's so much to be said for that. And it's like when we're working through these beliefs, I I had this aha moment just two days ago. I was talking to my mom, and this last summer, you know, I really stepped my business up and started getting some more clients and really shifted things into a more abundant space for my my media production company. And one of the things that I suddenly realized, I was talking to my mom, and I was talking about the plan that my my financial planner had me working on and the directions and the debt pay down and like all of this other stuff. And suddenly I was just like, I'm good with money. And I was like, I had this core belief that I was bad with money. I was like, I'm good with money. I'm actually really good with money. Yeah, I just didn't have enough coming in. I was spending what I needed to, but it wasn't covering the expenses I had and the needs I had. And so I was like, but I'm actually good with money. And I was like, man, this a bunch of other people that out there are actually good with money, but they don't realize it because all these limiting beliefs are in there. I can't start my own company. I can't do a side hustle. I'm not smart enough to pull that off.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Actually, you you probably are.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Two pieces to that, Sean, that I just want to call out. One, the education, the financial education piece, hiring a planner. It's kind of like who taught you some of these things, or maybe through all of your podcast interviews, learning that. And then two, like the empowerment, feeling empowered, and maybe even a little bit excited about your financial decisions is so key. And once you have those two things, like you're golden. And you absolutely can be fantastic with money. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01

I love that.

SPEAKER_02

I'm excited. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I I want to ask you two more questions. All right. And then what's one money myth that you wish would just die already?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, there's so many. Oh. Okay, there's I want to pick a really good one, you know, to share with the audience. Um I think one that comes to mind for me immediately is like having debt makes you a bad person or like there's shame around having debt. Right. Which I think is interesting because debt is a can be a really great tool to build wealth. A lot of the uber wealthy, they leverage debt all the time. Like how many bankruptcies has Donald Trump had? A billion, right? Because he leverages debt to build wealth. But I think on the lower level, for us who grew up like lower income or middle class, and we're taught like, but it debt is terrible, you know, we're scared like into even having a credit card or taking out a car loan. When it really can be a powerful tool if you have the education around when it makes sense, what interest rates, how to negotiate, all of that. Um, and again, it's a very normal experience to get into debt and it doesn't make you a bad person. You're not going to be stuck there forever. You can get out of it. And that's something that I wish was talked about more often. Uh it's yeah, it's not like a death that isn't a death sentence.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I love that because what you're talking about too is a tool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I remember when I was a kid, I'm old. Uh, we had like general shop class in my high school, and we got to make things. And I got to make a a wooden cabinet, small cabinet, but a wooden cabinet. And I will tell you this I would never want to go around any of those tools that I used at that time now, because I would hurt myself most seriously. Yeah. I might have fun, like, hey, check out this, you know, not good. Um, but at that time, like it was a powerful tool that I learned to use and I was able to do some amazing things with it. Now, that tool is also dangerous if you do not know how to use it. And if you just threw 20 kids in that room and said, hey, go make a wooden cabinet, people are going to be losing fingers and toes and all other types of things. But it has nothing to do with the tool. It has, have you educated people on this tool and the power of this tool? Because the reality is you can build a house, you can build cabinets, you can build anything if you know how to use a tool. So we need to stop villainizing tools and instead say, how do we use them?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. It's like safe sex, right? Can be dangerous, it can be great. You have to know how to do it. And again, we're just not taught this. We're not taught we take, you know, help class, we don't take personal finance class, oftentimes.

SPEAKER_01

I love, I love that you brought that up because again, like I don't think we're talking about that enough. Yeah. Like we talk money and sex are two topics that are just ignored. And it's crazy that people ignore them because they're two things that people are drawn toward insanely. Like, you can like like I grew up conservative, yeah, like Christian. My dad was like, I love my dad, but we didn't talk about money or sex. And I remember on my 13th birthday, I walked into my room and there was a book on my bed, and I was supposed to read it. And luckily, I had my friend Micah, and Micah was like, Sean, throw that book away. That is crap. This is what you need to know. And but I was learning from a 14-year-old, and like, also, not a great idea, you know, and it like it's this whole cycle because parents wouldn't talk to us because these topics were taboo. Yet everyone is drawn towards them. How much better it would be to talk about, hello, my daughter was like the other day, she's, you know, 10 years old. And she's like, well, how do animals, how do animals make babies? And I was like, okay, and then like other family members like, well, let's not go there. And I was like, or maybe we should start talking about maybe you should the facts because she's gonna learn it before, you know, other people are gonna like be seeding things in that are not healthy. And again, like same thing with money. If you could go back and talk to your 25-year-old self about money, uh, what advice would you give yourself?

SPEAKER_02

That's a great question. I will perhaps just by saying I'm 20, I just turned 29, so it wasn't that long ago.

SPEAKER_01

20-year-old self, 18-year-old self.

SPEAKER_02

Um, ooh, ooh. I learned the hard way about living above my means. And like, I think even growing up, I was so resistant to budgeting because I just maybe I and I learned this from my parents, maybe like ignorance is bliss. Like, if you don't know what's coming in and going out, if you don't look at your bank account, you can just pretend it's fine. And so that's how I got into debt, right? By not having any awareness of where my money was going. And so I tell myself to start tracking my spending and that budgeting doesn't have to be restrictive. I like the term spending plan. And to me, spending plan is giving yourself permission to spend on things that are really important to you and really aligned with you. And so I'm in my spending plan on I use Monarch Money as my platform now. I'm in there every single day. I get joy and excitement looking at where my money's going because I know it's going and really aligned. Yeah, I would tell my 18-year-old self, like, start tracking your spending. And it doesn't have to be coming from a place of restriction or telling yourself that you can't have things, it's coming from a place of freedom and giving yourself permission to spend on things that are really aligned and add the most value and fulfillment to your life.

SPEAKER_01

I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Probably the biggest thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, let me ask you uh, where can people find you and find more information about you?

SPEAKER_02

Of course, of course. So my website is daringgreatlywealth.com, but I'm also big on Instagram at Miss Lillian Hope. So M I S S L I L L I A N H O P E. I'm also on TikTok. I'm on Threads. I'm big on LinkedIn with just research Lily and Turner. Uh I post more professional stuff on LinkedIn, but still a great place.