Wealth vs. Well-being | Rand Selig | Growing Money with Sean Trace

In this episode of Growing Money with Sean Trace, I sat down with Rand Selig - investment banker turned author of Thriving: How to Create a Healthier, Happier and More Prosperous Life - for one of the most honest conversations I've had about money, meaning, and what we're really chasing. 

Rand spent decades at the highest levels of finance, helping people build serious wealth, and what he saw up close might surprise you. More money doesn't automatically bring more happiness, and for a lot of high achievers, the pursuit of wealth actually starts working against the life they say they want far sooner than they realize. We talked about the difference between the doing world and the being world, why busy people can still feel completely empty, and what it really means to have enough. Rand also opened up about a career decision that looked smart on paper but cost him years of fulfillment, and how a single conversation with a coach helped him finally stop complaining and start building. 

This one hit close to home for me, especially when my daughter walked in mid-recording and reminded me exactly what I'm doing all of this for.

What's one area of your life where you've been telling yourself "just a little more", and do you actually believe it?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So it was really helpful and it confirmed that yes, I did want to be an investment banker. I was really good at it, uh, but I wanted to have my own firm. I didn't like meetings and I didn't like having a boss. So it accelerated that process. And uh I started my own firm uh and uh never looked back. It it's been fantastic, but I had to get through that really rough stuff. My wife was saintly. Uh, I would come home for pretty much three years complaining about my boss, complaining about uh this situation. She was very patient with me. And finally, one evening I came home and I said, I'm bored with talking about this. I'm going to do something about it. Complaining is a fool's errand. And she woke to me and said, That's why I married you.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Welcome everybody back to the Growing Money with Sean Trace podcast. I am excited to have a return guest, not just return guest, like we had such a great conversation yesterday that I invited you right back today to speak on a different podcast that I have, which is kind of awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Can you tell people who you are and what you do? Well, thanks again, uh, Sean. It's great, it's great to come on back. I know we're gonna uh dive into some really important and good uh good material. Um yeah, my name is Rand Salig. Um I live in Northern California, and I've uh lived here for uh several decades. It's one of the great decisions I've made in my life, along with uh several others I put at the top of my list, including uh marrying my wife, um, starting my own firm. Nothing like that if you're if you're built that way, that you can handle that. Uh of course, the one I just mentioned, living in Mill Valley, choosing to live here. We could have chosen to live in a lot of different places. And then my fourth uh high point is uh writing my own book, uh Thriving, How to Create a Healthier, Happier, and more prosperous life. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I love it because there's so much going on there. And it's it's it's great for me to have these ways to talk to people about these really interesting topics. And yesterday um we were talking as well about uh some different topics, and one of them was enough, talking about enough in finances, enough when it comes to money and what that looks like for each individual person, you know? And I wanted to talk to you as well about this and hear your perspective on on this this question that's been kind of circling circling for me because you've been oper you've operated a very high level of finance, and you've operated around a lot of money, and that's something that you touched on, but you know, you worked a lot with with money. And what's something about money that most successful people get completely wrong?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, uh, Sean. Um, well, I I think I think one is that they think that um it's about making money and and focusing on that rather than how they're spending money. So um, you know, I uh think about it like a bucket. You're pouring water into a bucket. Um, and you know, the bucket is just a certain size. So uh you could fill the bucket, right? Unless you have too many holes in the bucket, which is consider that the uh the things you're buying with the money. You're spending things. You don't have a budget, this kind of stuff. So uh I I tell a lot of people, hey, focus uh as much, maybe even more, on how you're spending your money rather than on making money. You could do so much better by closing up some of the holes rather than working so furiously and hard and scrambling around trying to put more water into your bucket. Um the other, and it comes right away at the same time, and we're gonna talk more about this, is the a lot of people think there's an immediate and powerful and overwhelming connection between making money and happiness. And I really want to uh address that, knock that uh myth on it on it, on you know, knock it out. It's not it's not right.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

It's interesting too because it is very pervasive. Like all of our movies, all of our media, all of our our perceptions from time, ancient time to now, like you think about that. Like I was gonna make a point about we see all this media about money and wealth, but then you know, like you even think about in the past where people were buried with money, and then suddenly it clicked. I was like, like, think about King Tud. King Tot was buried with this huge, this insane amount of wealth. It would be like Elon Musk dying today, and instead of Elon Musk's money going back into everything, they bury it all with him. Like all of Elon's musk is thrown into a big mausoleum and it's gone. And you know, I mean, that was the reason all of those tombs were so many of the tombs were raided in ancient Egypt, and and and tomb raiding was a thing because there was so much wealth in these things, but for some reason Tut's tomb wasn't wasn't discovered. Uh and yet that you know, I'm not not boohooing the the e ancient Egyptians' views on the afterlife, but that that that gold didn't do him any good. And yet there was like this, you know, that gold went in the ground and it just became a stone and it became nothing. Yet uh there have been people who have lived throughout history who also had huge fortunes, and they uh were able to change the world by giving some of that money away, by giving it and by philanthropic work that became something that was powerful. I want to ask you this. At what point did you personally start questioning the idea of more? Like when did you realize more money wasn't automatically better?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Well, I I I feel very uh grateful, very fortunate that I had the parents I had. Uh, they were middle class people. My dad's first career was in the army. Um and uh mom was uh a scientist, a bacteriologist, and then later a social worker. They were all about service, uh helping other people. They had very full lives. Uh, you know, when I buried uh dad uh a year and a half ago at uh Arlington National Cemetery, there were a huge number of people who came uh to get to pay respects because he had impacted them and been uh helpful and and uh kind to them. And uh same for mom. Uh so uh actually I I never I can't remember uh having to pull away and say that's that that's not a uh that issue, that road, I have to get off the road. I never got on that road uh thinking that uh that was that was the way to be. Um I I I I saw from my parents, great models, that it's not about money. It's um you know, and struggling to make more money, it's more about just living uh a full life and um being a certain kind of person. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

I have so many different people that I look up to. My father's one of them. My father did not know a lot about money, but he knows a lot about people, he knows a lot about kindness, he knows a lot about creating value, he knows a lot about how to help people. It was interesting. He had this long business career, uh, and then he retired from that. Wasn't full like fully retired, he wasn't able to find work at some point in time. And what happened was he had to figure out new levels of meaning because he was it was kind of some age discrimination, like he got to the point in his career where no one wanted to hire him because they wanted someone younger and cheaper. Uh but what happened is that he decided to create new value and he went back and he started to study massage and he became a massage therapist and then moved into running a massage school and teaching massage because it was a new calling. Because he always knew what was enough, and yeah, um, enough for him was you know, the the ability to help people, the ability to make a change. And and that leads to me like, how do you define enough? And how has that definition changed over time?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

You know, enough for me has to do with things like do I have enough love in my life? Uh am I giving enough love? Am I receiving enough love? Do I have enough uh friends? I mean, deep and enduring friends. Um, you know, am I at peace with my is there enough peace in my life? Uh I'm not talking about out in the world because, you know, at any given time there's a lot of stuff going on. I'm talking about in my own life, in my own, you know, heart. Uh is there enough uh rest? Um uh do I have enough time for myself? Am I taking care of myself? Is there enough uh health uh in in various uh different ways, physical and emotional health? Um, uh these are very different from the material kinds of things. Uh you know, material things are valuable for me in terms of comfort. Am I comfortable enough? Uh you know, and that means uh, you know, uh, is my house comfortable? It's not huge. Uh you know, it's in a grove of trees. I love this. I can go out my door and go for a run, go for a beautiful hike. Uh you know, a lot of people would have taken this house and done a spent a lot of money renovating it. My wife and I said, why? Why why do that? We're very comfortable here. Same the cars. What cars do we drive? Well, well, we we drive comfortable cars, they're safe. Uh, you know, we tend to drive our cars until almost end of life, but uh they're comfortable. You know, if we can't uh, you know, uh sit in it and for some period of time and and uh be able to enjoy sitting in that car. And uh usually it's just me or maybe with my wife, uh it's not the right car. Uh so those but but that uh level of enough in the material was very small for me. It's not a big thing. The enoughness to me is uh uh really uh very much more about um the uh you know how I'm living life. And you know, one question that that I think is really uh worthy of our attention is what do you earn? Yeah. And in the doing world, we earn money and we earn promotions and we earn a title. Uh, but in the being world, which you know, I'm I'm I'm hoping we'll uh dive into a little bit more so I can unpack that for your listeners. In the the being world, um you earn other things, you earn respect, you you earn trust, you you you learn uh you uh earn uh uh a level of being appreciated. Uh maybe you learn uh you earn a place in heaven.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I love that. I love that. I love them all because at the end of the day, it's one of the things that is really, really tough for me is to to to to learn how to do things the right way to parent. And it's not like there's a book that you can have, but one of the things that I realized very early with my work and stuff is I have I know what I need, I know the amount that I need. And if I can hit that amount, that enough amount, we're good. My family's good. We are safe, we are in a good space, and like that's the thing. Like, I could chase more, but I would sacrifice my time with her, you know. And I want to ask, you know, for someone who's chasing success right now, how do they know if they're building a life or just building a bigger trap? Because that's one of the things that scares me. I'm sure it scares a lot of parents and people, you know?

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Well, I think there are a group of things to look, uh again, again and again, it's it's a personal question. You have to really take a look at what's going on for you because we're all a little bit different. Maybe we're there's some similarities, but there's a lot of differences. One is um is this just more of being busy uh but not fulfilled? So working really hard and to earn money, to make money, uh, but not being fulfilled could be a a huge drop. So that's that's one thing. Another is um and just remember that I like this line that busy busyness fills your time, but being effective and impactful fills your life. So what are you building? Wow. You you want to build a life? Um uh another uh thing to think about is um are are you just scrambling around uh working on your next goal, uh fulfilling your next uh, you know, making another achievement. This is the doing world. We all live in the doing world. Very, very few people, maybe you wear a saffron robe and you're on sitting on top of a mountain, and usually you're not in the doing world very much. But nearly everybody on the planet is in the doing world somehow. But if you're not in the being world, being a certain kind of person, uh this is could be much more of a trap and more demands on you. So even more doing and less being. Um another question is what is it doing with your relationships? Uh you just mentioned your daughter. It is this next opportunity, the next thing. Yes, there's uh more money, there's a bonus, there's a a different title. Oh, those can be very appealing. Uh that that could be great. But what does it do for your relationships, your personal relationships, as well as your business relationships, your work relationships? Um, you know, are you putting yourself uh in a place of being uh more alone and feeling lonely? You know, these are these are all uh definitely uh possible traps. So success is what you build, but thriving, which is of course, you know, what on what I'm running around doing a lot of talking about is how you live.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Right? It is, it's it's thinking about what is actually important to you because at the end of the day, people want to feel special, they want to feel connected, they want to feel like there's a bigger reason, and uh they think that money is gonna give that to them. You know, and we see things like there's apps now that you can go and connect with people and pay to connect with them, but you know, it's not real, that the real stuff is staring right in front of us. And I think that that's the type of thing that you have to recognize that whether you have money or not, you can cultivate those things. And the great relationships don't require that. That being said, money does allow you access to different things that can help you level up your game. It's like saying you don't need a fancy knife set to cook a great dinner. But that being said, if you have a great knife set and access to wonderful ingredients, well, your meal is probably gonna taste a lot better than it might otherwise. And I think that's the thing that I would say is like money might not be the end all be all, but it definitely is important. And like this is one of the things too, um, because what I see as well is we think that money equals wealth. And those are not necessarily the same thing. Wealth could be based on health, wealth can be based on connections, wealth can be based on relationships, it can be based on so many different things. And I want to ask you this like, is there a point where the pursuit of wealth actually starts working against happiness?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, the answer is an emphatic yes, and it it's a it comes at a much earlier point than a lot of people realize. You know, you get on the path and then you you know you're speeding along, and it's hard to get off. It's hard to get off that. So uh there are some very specific uh elements about that that that uh I I think I can point to. Um you know money, money is is a grease. It's you know, to use your food analogy. You know, it can uh uh money can buy you experiences. They cost money sometimes. I mean, if you're sitting down, maybe in your own house uh or you know, in your front yard with a friend, that that doesn't cost you any money. I mean, you're you're making a choice about spending your time with that. But if you're going to go someplace, you're going to drive or fly or whatever, that's going to take some some money, some some fuel, some financial fuel. Um you know, uh, it takes money to be uh healthy to a certain extent. A lot of the things that we can do to extend our our health span don't cost a lot of money. It's some good choices, like uh, I can stop eating now. That would be better for me. I can drink more water, I can go to bed a little earlier, uh, I can, you know, put some eye patches on so I'm sleeping better, and so on. But there are times when you need something else that's going to cost money. Maybe you do need to go see a doctor, maybe you need to see a specialist, and maybe your insurance doesn't cover all of that. Or in the in the worst case, you don't have insurance at all. Uh, so you need money to have insurance, and then it opens the door to to to to more folks. Um you know, money can be a fuel for uh relationships. Uh what do I mean by that? Well, you know, a lot of uh I mean uh I feel very uh very fortunate. I have friends, um, many of them live, you know, within uh uh driving from where I live, but many live far away. Uh some live in Europe, some live on the east coast of the US. Uh so uh to see them uh takes money, or to communicate with them uh with by phone or even having access to internet, these these are all things that relate to having some degree of money. Um you know, there's the so there's there's a group of things that are all kind of at a a basic well, I'll call it a basic level that involve uh money. But um just as you were saying, Sean, uh at a certain point, more money doesn't add to your life. It it can be a distraction, it can be a diversion uh from uh the kinds of things that you really are about and want to be doing. And by the way, let me just inject something uh that uh that occurred to me as as as we were talking. Uh a lot of people are very interested in in making more money and and building financial wealth. Uh and I think for a lot of people I've observed, and I've met a lot of and worked with a lot of people who have a lot of uh financial assets, um, and as an investment banker, I've I've helped them uh do that. It's a proxy for them for power. It's a proxy for them to try to get respect and be seen and appreciated. And um those things uh can be good and uh but misused uh that can be really bad. So uh bad for them and and bad for the world uh around them. So uh it's a just sort of a cautionary note there.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I 100% agree. Whether it be the child who wants their friends, I mean, it comes back to the whole like, you know, Cain and Abel type of a thing. But if we you want to go back to early legend stories of like when you start trying to take the thing of someone else, when you start trying to covet that thing and and you know, hey, I they have something. Nicer than me. And I mean, and obviously most of us are not going to murder someone for, but we might allow a relationship become toxic. We might have a degree of jealousy that makes things go the wrong way. Instead of what is important to me, you know what's important to me is uh the most important thing, and I I put a large amount of my budget monthly into this is my daughter's education. I make sure that she has great private tutors. She goes to a public school, but she has a great math teacher that we found online. Uh, she has a Vietnamese teacher that comes. We go to Thai or boxing three days a week. We have art teachers, we have piano teachers, we do singing classes with her, we have dancing classes. And I decided that my wife's like, I she'll like, well, you know, we have this little bit of a different her family likes to kind of lounge and hang out. And I said, I want to teach her to be active, to be proactive, to be doing things so that her time is filled with activities. Because especially for kids these days, the chance that they end up on a device is very high. And that's something I don't want, you know. And so uh coming from that perspective, I start thinking about these uh these patterns that I see because I see people having these different patterns, people that are, you know, trying to keep up with the Joneses, people that are trying to do these things, and you know, you've seen money up close. Uh, what patterns do you notice people uh and people who have a lot but still feel empty?

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, uh happiness is an inside job. You're not looking outside, you're not looking externally, you're not looking at your neighbor, your boss, or a coworker. Uh, you're you're you're saying, what, what, what is driving me? What is what is fulfilling me? What's important to me? What do I value? Just like you're talking about, you you're putting time and attention and and money into your daughter's uh experiences in life uh and her education. And that those are those are powerful, important choices that affect you and uh and and your whole family, and of course, uh very much your daughter, and bravo for you. Um that there are there are a lot of things uh that uh uh that I've seen up close and personally uh about the patterns uh that that people have. Uh let me let me just name a few. Um one is uh that they uh are focused very much on possessions and material things and you know uh uh having some degree of satisfaction. Uh Silas Marner uh is a is a uh a character who's always uh running around counting his money. And uh so there's a lot of that. But what's that that uh is uh pushing them away from from other things, such as building deep and enduring relationships, building support systems that are really important when you hit tough times. Uh they get in the way. Uh that kind of focus gets in the way of um you know all kinds of things you can be doing for your own uh health. Uh we've talked about that a minute ago. And in some cases, it can lead to abuse, drug and alcohol abuse, and because you're so driven, you're so wound up, uh, and and maybe exhausted and overwhelmed. Uh it gets in the way of uh uh really defining purpose. What is your purpose? Uh uh purpose is essential. I talk about it with high school students, I talk about it all the way through. When people say they're retiring, I say, don't use the word retire, use the word rewire. Open the door to something next for you uh that suits you based on your experience, based on where you are, you know, in your life. Uh I talk about purpose with people in retirement homes. Uh it's it's essential, it's absolutely essential to have purpose all the way to the end. Um and uh it's uh purpose, uh, you know, it's a choice kind of between having more stuff versus uh being more fulfilled, uh being of service, uh being a certain kind of person. So uh the these are these are choices. Uh this is the the the fantastic thing about uh this world I'm living in, about thriving and talking to people about thriving. These are choices, important choices about how we're spending our time and with whom, what our habits are, the good ones, the bad ones, the ones that aren't there that need to be there, and also our feelings. You know, you talked at the very beginning, uh Sean, about um the whole uh need for uh being positive. Oh boy, uh I am I am Mr. Positive, but not in a Pollyanish kind of way. In a way of just choosing, making choices about uh that there are good things going on and there are good people and there are good opportunities. Uh so uh the these are all uh essential ingredients that uh build the life I'm living and I believe uh can uh contribute in an important, very important way to nearly everybody I'm I'm talking to and engaging with. You can get on the path to thriving.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

I love that. I absolutely love that. And I believe that you can get on the path to thriving, but you have to make decisions. Decisions to move in that direction, decisions to realign. You know, for me, um, right now I'm trying to make decisions to be present with my wife and daughter, you know. And I wanted to ask you, and that's not always easy. It's sometimes having to stop in the middle of my podcast because my kiddo walks in the room and asking her, Hey, are you okay? What's going on? You know, she's looking for um tomorrow. Her school says that they need to have a device uh because they're teaching them how to use some different uh learning tools. And so I'm charging her device. And when she popped in the room, like I could be like, Hey, I'm recording right now. Or I can say, you know what? I'm the decision I'm gonna make is to pay attention to you right now because that's that's important. But like I want to ask you a decision you made in your career that looked financially smart but didn't feel right personally.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Um well, um, you know, I maybe before we started uh recording, uh I told you that I loved your questions. I really appreciate the chance to uh think about them so that they were all uh fluid and and integrated. And but there was one one of your questions that I had to really kind of dig deep for. And this this was this question. Uh, because I don't I don't think that I can point to in in my uh my uh business career, in my um, you know, financial side of things, uh a clear and obvious answer to that, where I reach for something that was a really bad thing to reach for. But the answer, the answer, and it uh it's it's a real answer, is that my wife and I were living in Tokyo. This is right after we got married. I was running the Asian investment banking uh business uh for one of the big uh investment banking uh money-centered uh institutions. Uh it was it was an amazing life. And but then on uh on course, uh we we wanted to get pregnant. We wanted to have our first kid. And so so we did. And uh at that point we said, well, we now want to move back to the United States. And uh the company I was working for, headquartered in New York, we said, we're not going back to New York. That's been a fantastic experience, but we're not going back to New York. The uh the absolute uh straw that broke the camel's back was uh the the head, uh, you know, one of the most senior guys at the firm, big firm, said, and you can have your secretary back. And I said, That that's not gonna happen. No, no, no, no. So we chose, we chose to to move to San Francisco, which meant joining a new firm. Now, what I had realized in the three years I was in Tokyo, that I really want I was an entrepreneur. And I uh the the best the best boss I had was one who left me alone, or would occasionally check in and say, is there anything I can help you with? Anything, any resources I can point your way. So I knew I wanted to have my own firm, but I didn't, I wasn't ready. I'd been away from the U.S. for a long time. Uh and uh so and I didn't have a partner. I felt I needed a partner. So I joined another one of the big uh investment banking firms, very well known. It was private at the time, and it became public, and that was a big cultural shift. And while it made sense that I joined that firm, um it it was I spent three years with them. Uh uh I you know, it was a New York, uh it was a New York-based firm, but I was in San Francisco, and the New York people who the big cheeses uh really thought very little of the people in the uh six or seven offices around the world that weren't in New York. So I accepted the position. I worked hard for those three years, um uh, but it it it was not great. Had I spent more time uh finding a better firm, uh one that fit me better, that allowed me to bring all of my uh experiences to bear, uh, a better boss, a boss who uh uh you know didn't think he was the smartest guy in the room. That would have been a better thing. But the the silver lining in this cloud was that it absolutely uh accelerated my thinking about who I was, what I wanted to be. Uh I worked with a um a career coach uh who was phenomenal. I talk about him in my book of to the end of my days, I will be thanking Daryl Peterson for his work. Uh, you know, he said, let's get together on a self-paced program. Uh and like a question like, who are your heroes? So I said, Well, like Tarzan. So it was really helpful and it confirmed that yes, I did want to be an investment banker. I was really good at it, uh, but I wanted to have my own firm. I didn't like meetings and I didn't like having a boss. So it accelerated that process. And uh I started my own firm uh and uh never looked back. It's been fantastic, but I had to get through that really rough stuff. My wife was saintly. Uh, I would come home for pretty much three years complaining about my boss, complaining about uh this situation. She was very patient with me. And finally, one evening I came home and I said, I'm bored with talking about this. I'm going to do something about it. Complaining is a fool's errand. And she looked at me and said, That's why I married you.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

I understand that, man. I had a wife, I have a wife who is very um much pushes me every day to be better, to try different things, and to really understand that not to settle for surface level stuff, to really be willing to sit there and go, what do I want? And how do I go about getting that? Because and and to evaluate whether the stuff that I'm think that I want is actually the stuff that I want, you know, because sometimes those are not the same things. And and I think that when we have a person that we can bounce ideas off of, it can very, very much help. I want to ask you this though, because um a lot of people say they'll focus on meaning after they make money, but what does that actually work? Can you actually, you know, make money and then find meaning, or is it better to find meaning as you go?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Yeah, I I I I I want to say an emphatic no. Don't put off uh that uh that uh meaning creating uh aspect of life. Uh don't don't defer that. Do it just as you said, Sean, all along the way from as young a person as you can be. Uh, you know, people uh very young sometimes have a lot of wisdom. I think this is part of the wisdom element. You're talking about your father in the same kind of way. There are serious, serious risks about uh uh saying I will get back to the meaning thing or start really concentrating on meaning after I've made a certain amount of money. Risk number one is that there's never enough money, and so they can't get off that conveyor belt. They're stuck. A second risk is that if uh they keep uh deferring this work, they're hollowing their souls out. So that maybe by the time they get to the place of okay, I I really don't need any more money. I don't want to work on that stuff anymore. I'm gonna focus, refocus now on uh on meaning. There's there's so little musculature, there's so little of them left that it becomes a lot more challenging to discover, to create meaning in their lives. It's possible, and I've seen it happen, but it's that much more because they're sort sort of pulled into a series of ways of behaving, of thinking, that it's all in that old uh you know way that that wasn't fulfilling and wasn't very much, much harder. So I say no, get on with the meaning game. Uh it's not a game, you know, it's it's vitality, it's the essence of life as early as you possibly can. And if something is is pulling you away from that, you gotta say, hey, that's uh that's a not only a yellow flashing light, maybe that's a big red light, not going there. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

If you could tonight or today, um someone listening right now is grinding hard. What's one question they should ask themselves to make sure they're not drifting away from what actually matters?

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Well, I I think uh there's uh a couple of uh things that are really uh key about this. Uh one is you have to ask yourself, um, why am I doing this? Don't just do it automatically. Don't don't be driving through fog. Don't have somebody else driving your bus. Be that person who's making a decision. Why am I doing this? And sometimes you got to think about it again and again. You got to, you know, test your idea with somebody you trust. Maybe it's your spouse, maybe it's some friend who's willing to take a little bit of risk with you to tell you the truth. What you're saying doesn't align with the person I see you as being. So I'm not sure that your why is very clear. You need to spend more time clarifying that. And then what you're uh so ask yourself why, why you're doing it. A second thing is um ask yourself, am I living in an aligned way that's aligned with again, who I am, with things that I place importance on. Maybe it's family and friends, maybe it's again your health, your physical and emotional health. Maybe it's uh the love for yourself, that you respect yourself, uh, you know, that that uh that all these things, is there alignment or not? Uh and that this is a very powerful um set of questions to ask yourself.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah. I love that. Where can people go again to find more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Uh thank you. Uh I think the easiest and best is just to start with my book website, randsaleg.com, r-end, sand, e-l-i-g.com. Lots of information there on the book website about me, about the book, great testimonials, all kinds of uh resources. Uh I put additional resources on uh late last year for audiobook readers, uh listeners, because uh there are certain parts of the book like the 75 uh paragraphs uh at the in the appendix about books that I've read that really impacted me. I didn't read those. So I just uh told people in the audiobook, uh, go to the book website and you can look at all those things right there. There's also a Connect with Rand page where if somebody wants to invite me to their uh living room, uh their book club, uh to their company, uh to their school, uh they can they can connect with me there. And they can also say, hey, I read your book and uh I didn't understand this part, I didn't agree with you in this part. They can have a conversation, start a conversation with me there as well.