Your Financial North Star | Skee Orr | Growing Money with Sean Trace

I sat down with Skee Orr, fee-only fiduciary and co-founder of Kinetic Wealth in Knoxville, Tennessee, and this conversation shifted something for me. 

We grew up in similar places - Western North Carolina, not a lot of money, not a lot of financial guidance, and that shared background made this one feel real. Skee breaks down what it actually means to be a steward of your money, why fee-only financial planning eliminates conflicts of interest that most advisors won't even admit exist, and why so many people feel shame or confusion around their finances before they ever get started. We talk about legacy, not just what you leave for people, but what you leave in them, and Skee makes a case that the 401k is the single most powerful wealth-building tool available to almost everyone, and most people aren't using it right. 

This isn't about getting rich quick. It's about knowing your North Star and making intentional decisions that actually reflect your values.

What's one money belief you grew up with that you've had to completely unlearn as an adult?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

But to me, I mean, financial planning is not an event. It's not a conversation. It's not a document or a presentation. It's it's a lifestyle of again starting with why. And that's kind of the North Star that we're always going toward. I feel like I spend a lot of time with new-ish clients developing humility that I don't, I can't predict what's going to happen six months from now any better than they can. And so building that humility to say we're not trying to predict what's going to happen. We're trying to prepare ourselves for what is likely to happen. And, you know, being flexible allows us to change course if we need to, because maybe our North Star changes, which that doesn't change very often, but maybe where we're trying to go changes, or maybe where we find ourselves changes. Someone passes away, someone gets married, a child comes into the picture. So lots of things happen, and financial planning, I believe, is the lifestyle required to do those things well from a financial standpoint.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Welcome everybody back to the Grand Money Sean Trace Podcast. I've got an awesome guest with me today, which like to tell people who you are and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yes, I am Ski Orr. My wife, Amanda, and I own and operate Kinetic Wealth. So we are a financial planning firm at fee only here in Knoxville, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

How did you go down that path? Like what was it that you know said, hey, I I want to be a financial planner and I want to help people out with their money?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

That is a great question. So as I transitioned from middle school to high school, uh, this the high school I went to had just hired a new business teacher. Um he taught business classes and computer classes. And for some reason, he and I just kind of hit it off. Uh, we're actually still great friends today, but um, taking those classes kind of helped me understand that I was, for whatever reason, gifted in in math and I loved helping people and uh kind of developed a passion for economics. And so if you put all those pieces together, uh financial planning is a is a perfect job for me. Um so that's kind of where it all started. Studied financial planning in college, uh, started my career in January of 2012, kind of worked worked my way up from the bottom and and learned personal finance inside and out, and uh now I'm very grateful to be able to help people make good decisions with money.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I love that. I love it. That it's it's it's that simple. And you before we started, you asked me what got me into this because I'm not a financial planner. I am a person who doesn't know a lot about money, and uh my why is sitting right there. Um, she's doing some homework right now, and my daughter is sitting over there, and she's in the room while her mom is doing some work. And um a couple years ago, she started asking me questions about money, and I did not have answers. And I grew up in a house uh and a father who I love to pieces, but he had this in the in the background we had, the church we came from, had this money as the root of all evil vibe, you know, and that people who have money are you know not godly people. And I had to relearn a lot of things because I had to come from this place of like, you know what, it's not the money, it's like and I started looking at it this way like if someone starts worshiping a knife, obviously that's not a great thing, you know, but a knife can cook you a great dinner, a knife can also cut you, and at the end of the day, money is simply another tool, and it's how you use it. And I had to sit there and go, I need to eat, I need to eat, and that's the reality for everyone in life. So I might as well learn how to use a knife because if I don't, I want to be sitting there complaining and being hungry all the time, and that was something I didn't want for myself or my family, and so I figured out I figured like, well, I want to learn about money, so I did my MBA and I got a scholarship and I did my MBA uh tailing to COVID, and I realized I wasn't any closer to learning about money, and so I said, like, well, I'm really good with content and media. Let's start a podcast where I start talking to financial advisors and see what I can learn.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

That's awesome. That resonates so much with me because uh and I've never really thought of that, but uh I grew up kind of with a similar, uh, a similar vibe. So very interesting. Tell me about that. I'd love to hear that. Yeah, so I'm uh in here in Knoxville today, and and definitely this is home, but I grew up in far western North Carolina in the mountains, and um, you know, not not a huge amount of opportunities for people and a lot of poverty. I grew up in like the Hendersonville Fletcher area of North Carolina. So I grew up in Andrews, which is even further west than that. Um so yeah, uh a lot of poverty and and maybe confusion about money, and I, you know, maybe some that's some of the things that we're gonna talk about today. But I think when something is confusing or difficult to understand, you know, maybe our natural tendency is to think that's bad. So I want to hopefully enlighten people so that they don't feel like it's bad. It it is exactly what you said, it's a tool. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

I really love that. And it is what I want to talk to you about today because I really appreciate that perspective. And one of the things when I go out, and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna be straight with when I go to find people, it is really a numbers game to find people to come on a podcast. Like I try to go and I dig through profiles and I look at people, but I I I I like and I reach out to the ones that I that resonate with what I'm talking about and resonate with what they they post things and share things that are interesting and important to me. And there was a line that you had on your LinkedIn that I just really stood out to me and it's something I love. And it was talking about being a financial steward, you know, and money meets stewardship. And I love that because to me, you know, whether it be talent or financial abundance or it can be anything, you know, your your personality or persona, God gave me the ability to talk, and I'm a steward of that, and I have to choose what I'm gonna do with that, you know? And if you have money, you need to be a steward as well. And like, what does money meet stewardship actually mean in real life to you?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Well, so there's a little bit of a backstory on that, and it's very much related to financial planning. So, financial planning is an act of humbling ourselves to realize that the future is unpredictable, our future circumstances are unpredictable, so we are trying to use our education and knowledge to prepare ourselves for lots of different things that can happen. And so where money meets stewardship. Uh, the backstory on that is as we were planning this firm uh several months before we actually launched, um I was working with a marketing company who did an excellent job, asked me a lot of questions of who I serve and what I like to do, and we came up with the name kinetic wealth because I I have had a tendency to serve a lot of technical people like engineers and and CPAs. And so through that process, we came up with kinetic wealth, and our tagline was um ignite financial momentum, very strong engineering type words. Um and so that that was our plan for our business. And now that we've been open for about a year now, we see that what we thought our business was going to be is not actually what our business has become. So uh we are going through a very light rebranding right now, but the the tagline um has changed to where money meets stewardship. We feel like that is more closely aligned with my per persona, and I'm kind of a teacher. And a lot of those things you mentioned are are deeply important to me of helping people figure out what stewardship means. And that means different things to different people. Um but I feel like it's it's almost an act of closing your eyes and forgetting everything that's around us and just focusing internally on what's important to me, and then I'm going to intentionally make decisions that are reflective of that rather than being kind of reactive to everything else going on around me.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

That story, my wife is a celebrity here in Southeast Asia. She's a singer in Vietnam, and she is an amazing singer. Yesterday we were talking, there was a story in the chat because this one artist uh got drunk and then punched a woman in the face last night. And we I was just like, wow. And he's he's dealing with the repercussions of that right now. It's really people are going at him and saying, you know what, I can't do that. And one of the things too is I think that you have those things that are your core values and your actions flow from. And I think that whether you have to figure out what your values are, and I'm I don't know him, I don't know what the situation was, but I do know that when I'm faced with choices, I sit there and immediately think back about my core values. Every single choice I make reflects revolves around my daughter, my wife, and the best thing for them and for the as well now for my team, for my employees, for my you know, larger social group. You know, I try to think about those things. How I manage money is a reflection with that, you know, of that. And I want to ask you that because you're uh doing something really interesting. And I love uh I want to talk to you about this because you're a um you're how you bill, you know, what's the difference between a normal financial advisor and a fee-only fiduciary? Like, how does that play into being a steward and how you work with people?

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yeah. Um and and being fee only and what's different about you know everybody else, I I think that it's important to point out that in life there's pretty much no such thing as a perfect decision. Um so there it it you know, financial planning and really just living life is just a series of making decisions and and trying to understand what the pros and cons are of different decisions I can make. Um and and again, we made the decision to launch our firm as fee only. Um and I would say some of the pros and and reasons that we felt that was best for our clients is um it we can't eliminate all conflicts of interest between a business and its customers, but fee only, in my personal opinion, eliminates many of the conflicts. So uh we're we're trying to reduce the situations where I am in direct conflict with our clients. Um I think that the statistics are like 75% of people who call themselves financial advisors are fee-based, uh meaning that they can they can charge a fee and and give fiduciary advice, but they can also sell like products and earn commissions, which is not a fiduciary act. Um so most people operate in that world. That's what I've operated in most of my career, uh, and only about five percent give or take of financial advisors are fee only. So um I think that that that stands out to the types of people that that we serve well, they value transparency, they want to learn and understand. Um, and we've had probably 10 people reach out to us because we're fee only. So to the types of clients that we feel like we serve best, the the the business model of fee only and transparency, I think resonates with them. And so, therefore, that's that's why we chose that business model.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

I love that, man. I think it's awesome too, because it's accessible. The people know where they're at, what they're getting, and you know what they're giving out. And it's it's that transparency to me is really great, especially when people feel intimidated, you know. Growing up uh in a place and places, because I after we left Hendersonville, my family moved way out north of Nashville, up in the border of Kentucky. And also it was a place that people didn't have a lot of money, you know, and it was it was horses and small homes, you know, and it's like it was just like it was wild that it was this fun combination, but like uh affluence was not not a thing, you know, and it was just like those people though still needed help with money, those people still are gonna need to figure out how to use that knife. And I love the idea of like being able to give people something that they can fathom and process. But yeah, it leaves me to my next question: is like, why do so many people feel confused or intimidated when it comes to money? You know, in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, um, that's an interesting question because my my wife is a nurse practitioner uh by trade. She's helping we run this business together today, but uh her expertise is in in healthcare, and and many of her family members also work in healthcare. And so you you think about things that are important in this world, uh, obviously our health probably is number one, and then our money is usually number two, but both of these industries are not super approachable. Uh I think I read the other day that uh uh it's like 70 to 80 percent of patients withhold medical information from their doctor when they first meet. Because it's like, are you gonna judge me? Are you gonna compare me to everybody else? So um I think that that again, it goes back to kind of our uh backgrounds of people don't have a lot of money, so therefore they don't have a lot of experience with it, so they just tend to think that it maybe it's bad. Um and and going back to the to the fee-only business model is very simple, like the ways that I am compensated is very easy. Um I can explain it to someone who doesn't know anything about personal finance, and they can probably explain it right back to me. So simplifying things as much as possible in the client experience is important because I think that that's where someone can grow and learn, and and knowledge uh I believe is is power. So I hope that I can share as much knowledge as I can with with clients and and kind of be their fiduciary guide through all the crazy things that are going to happen in markets and and just in life in general.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

I come back and circle back on this a lot. That um one of the most challenging things for people is you don't know what you don't know. And it is an absolute nightmare because you might think you know and you might be doing the best that you can, but you might be making mistakes because no one's shown you a better way. I see this at the gym all the time. I go into the gym and wonderful, lovely people in there, which is awesome. They're there trying to get fit, they have the right reasons, the right motivation, the right everything. But then I saw one guy the other day, and he was doing like this crazy thing on the on the lat pull down machine. And I was just like, ow, that is gonna hurt something. That's gonna pull something right there. And yet he didn't know, you know. And I there was luckily someone came up and said, Hey man, I'm gonna show you what you need to do. You gotta hook your knees here under this, uh, and you want to lean back or pull down. You can also pull behind. There's some different ways to do it, just depends on how you do it, it's gonna affect a different muscle. And the guy was like, Oh my goodness, thank you. No one ever um has told me that. No one ever has taken the time to sit there and coach me on that. And that's what I was like, but if they had this person would have been so much further along. And the same thing applies to to helping people with finances. But you're right, there is this trust gap with money and health. I know, man, there's I've times where I go into a doctor and I will tell a person, especially a new new trip and you think you're like, Oh man, I don't want to be judged. Tell them 90%. But that 10% it's probably the most important part. That 10% is probably the thing that you really should be talking about. And you know, if you can, it makes a big difference. So I I'm so fascinated by that and by that that thing. Like, and it wasn't one of the questions I sent over, but how do we get people to trust the process more, to trust more, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Well, and it's funny you say that because uh our industry, I think for maybe the last 10 years or so has talked a lot about having a niche and like a very specific person or type of person that you serve. And I I think that's wonderful. And I think some firms have have really uh flourished because of that. But what you we've thought like we help people who are just literally starting out and have never engaged with the the financial world professionally ever. And then we have people who have significant net worths and they've maybe spoken with lots of financial professionals. So uh we've got a wide range of ages and asset levels. And so we sat down and tried to figure out okay, this community that we're building, uh, what it what are some of the common denominators? And the one of the most common denominators is our clients are very cautious, uh, maybe even go so far to say skeptical. And and so that that is exactly what you're describing, like where's there's a trust gap. And so we have set our firm up to uh be warm warm and welcoming, and and basically we do the beginning of our process for free for everybody. Um, and that's kind of our demonstration to show these types of people that are very cautious that it is okay to to trust somebody. There are people that that you can trust and and they will lock arms with you and and you know help you make good decisions. So uh what you said is really what we're trying to do. We're trying to bring down those barriers that keeps people from engaging in good uh financial planning and good financial behavior uh by demonstrating instead of telling people to trust us or asking people to trust us, we're showing people that they can trust us.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

You know, I think that's interesting too because the trust is such an important thing. And I think that trust is earned, you know, and I think that like one of the things that you have to do is is showing up. And I I think that that's one of the things that I see. I hope that the financial industry learns a lot. I know everyone wants optimization and people want more money, but you know, and AI is helping people scale and do this. But I hope that people remember that what most people want is someone just to talk to, right? It's someone who can be there for them and hear them. You know, and and I think that because it's like you feel vulnerable. And, you know, if people are just gonna be like, all right, I'm gonna listen to you for five minutes and then dump you off on this AI messaging service, you know, it's like that's that's not what people want. You know, and I want to ask you this too, because um if someone feels behind financially, what's the first step that you think they should take?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Usually in in finance and and in most things in life, the best first step is a conversation. Um because that if you're having a conversation, that means that someone else is also now involved, and and that builds accountability. Uh, but hopefully the conversation is is with a trusted loved one or or a trusted professional like me, so that uh a person would be willing to be truthful and and talk about things that maybe are intimate of what has gone well in life, what's not going so well in life, and what do I want my life to look like. And just having that conversation, it's kind of kind of like the Simon Senec at Start With Why. I don't think many people approach life in that way. They they start with the what. I want a lot of money. Okay, well, if you just get a lot of money, you might be very disappointed that it's not as good as you thought it was going to be. But if if you start with a why and then you work towards a what, maybe you maybe you could uh do something that would produce a lot of money, but you also might find that a lot of money is not really what you wanted in the first place. So starting with why, I think is the the clearest path to to happiness. Uh and and as far as financial planning goes, we think happiness is a good financial planning experience, and and maybe uh an experience that typically is not very enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

I agree. I agree. I think that why is the core. It has to be the core, you know. Um, but I want to ask you this too. Like, what does a financial plan look like for a regular family? Because I mean, granted, everyone, a lot of people in this space like to talk about only high net worth individuals, but like for average people or for everyone, what's a financial plan look like? Is it something that's adaptable or is it something that's like etched in stone?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Well, so historically, and I remember when I was studying financial planning in college and studying to take my certified financial planner exam, you know, we talked a lot about a this is a financial plan, and maybe it's a thick binder that you know has lots of documents in it and lots of steps that you can take. And that's fine. And I think that it's important to learn those types of things to be a well-rounded uh financial planner. But to me, I mean, financial planning is not an event, it's not a conversation, it's not a document or a or a presentation, it's it's a lifestyle. Um again, starting with why. And that's kind of the North Star that we're always going toward. But I I feel like I spend a lot of time with new-ish clients um developing humility that I don't I can't predict what's going to happen six months from now any better than they can. And so building that humility to say we're not trying to predict what's going to happen. We're trying to prepare ourselves for what is likely to happen. And, you know, being flexible uh allows us to change course if we need to, because maybe our North Star changes, which that doesn't change very often, but maybe where we're trying to go changes, or maybe where we find ourselves changes. Someone passes away, someone gets married, a child comes into the picture. So lots of things happen, and financial planning, I believe, is the lifestyle required to do those things well from a financial standpoint. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

I love that a lot. Because again, when you figure out your North Star, if there's a storm or something that blows you off course, it's much easier to find your way back. It's yeah, and that and that leads to kind of my next question because you know, we have these journeys that are not straight line, you know, but it's about staying consistent. And how do you help people stay consistent, not fall off track with their money, you know?

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Well, and and so kinetic wealth as a firm, uh, we just launched June of last year. So we are coming up on our our on our first year anniversary, but doing the this type of work uh with lots of different people. Um how you can keep people accountable is consistency. So consistency of conversations and messaging, and oh yeah, I remember we did talk about that. And and you know, we need reminders and we need consistency. And so how I've kind of found my sweet spot in that is generally I will meet with people twice a year. Um usually in the beginning of the year, you're thinking about your tax return and maybe gathering your tax documents and reflecting on what happened in the previous year. Uh, that's important in the financial planning process. And then getting closer to August, September, October, uh, you start working on tax planning type topics. So um I think that the the consistency in messaging, the consistency in in meeting and kind of reminding each other of what our North Star is, and and no matter what situation we find ourselves in today, explaining how our decisions are going to get us there, I think that's what uh builds that that good experience. I love it, man.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I love it. I love that a lot. You know, I think that one of the things too that I see people is that people can make a lot of mistakes, you know? And you know, they make mistakes because they don't have the confidence, they don't have the education, they don't have the information. I want to ask you, what's one mistake you see people make when they try to grow their wealth?

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Well, so one thing you said having confidence, and I would just say having confidence to ask questions. So that's a that's a common mistake. Maybe I feel like I need to figure this out on my own. So I'm just gonna, you know, Google search, a question, and try to figure out a reputable resource and do it on my own. So I always encourage people to ask questions. If something happens and it has anything to do with money, please ask a question. Uh, and so I would encourage your listeners the same thing. Ask questions and find someone that you feel trust in that you can that would answer. Um probably another common one that would maybe be across the board is just uh chasing shiny objects. Uh I think our industry in general is notorious for having a new shiny object about every six months, and they are selling the heck out of it, and then a new shiny object comes out six months later and they sell the heck out of that. And usually none of that's any good for the consumer, but it's like, oh man, everyone's doing this. I need to jump on board. Maybe. Uh, but but think about it first, and there's not really such a thing as a get rich quick scheme. So uh patience and and again just going back to those values and and what's most important, that that usually helps you avoid chasing a shiny object that might harm you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

I love that because I think that the one of the biggest things that c catches up with a lot of people is that trying to keep up with the Joneses, trying to match what everyone else is doing, matching everyone's wins. And those wins might be a bunch of BS that you know people are just you know think is important, but it's not, you know. And to me, I think that I was talking to my daughter the other day about uh peer pressure and what all the kids had at school. And she was telling me, all the kids have this, all the kids are doing this. And I said, Do you need it though? Is it important though? Because I promise you, 90% of what all of those other kids are doing isn't that important. Um, it might be interesting, it might be fun, but it's not needed. And she's like, But I and I said, Really? I I said, think about it this way. And they were like telling all the kids that they have to get these devices. I'm actually frustrated with her school because we've been trying to have a zero device policy, and she uh like the school's like, we need to get them all in and all hooked on devices, and I'm like, Oh yeah, because you know, I think that the kids should be reading books and going outside and playing and doing stuff that's that's more organic and off of the devices. But where I'm getting at what I'm getting at is that when all of her friends brought their flashy new devices to school, and she's like, But Tommy had the new iPad Pro, and then Bobby had this, and I was just like, and uh did it help them get better scores. It looked fun and they were on video games, and I was like, they were on video games at school, you know. Like, first of all, that's another big problem. Well, the teacher told them not to, and I just like big long story there. But it's interesting because we got to the point where I said, Well, you know what I had when I was a kid? And I studied, no, yeah, well, a couple a couple books, and we did really good in school. Well, did you have this? No. Did you did we did you need it? I was like, nope, we had books, and then I read a lot. We had a great library. I was always in the library getting more information. It was interesting because I was able to help her reframe how she was looking at stuff. Um and that reframing was all that was needed, and I think that's something that adults need as well, you know. And I want to ask you this though, because how should someone think about protecting their family financially? And how should they reframe their approach to doing all?

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Yeah, so when when I think of protection uh in this industry, I think the first thing that comes to your mind is insurance. Uh, but to me, you know, insurance is one of it's kind of like the start with why. That's one of the what's. Um you can tie structure your assets a certain way, you can title your assets a certain way, you can get insurance for for various risks, and those are all ways that you can protect. But I think um the easiest first step is to learn. Um, because just having having at least a general knowledge or a basic knowledge that that you can kind of grow um will help protect you from those really bad decisions that that typically will uh significantly hamper someone's financial outcomes. Um so I think having having knowledge and and growing your knowledge over time is important. And then all the other things like estate planning and uh maybe having a trust or or buying different types of insurance to protect against risks, those are important part of it. But I think just growing your knowledge is a good first step.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

One of the things that I I am fascinated by is legacy. For me, again, one of the reasons I started my podcast was part of my legacy because I'm very good with media. I'm very good with helping tell stories, and I have been really good with um uh trying to keep a message going. And that message that I'm sharing is about uh trying to be um open, honest, and uh and telling people what I think, even if it's not always great, you know, might not always be right, but I try to be keeping my voice going. And one of the things that I'm I'm fascinated by is the idea of legacy, you know, and legacy for some people is financial, but for other people, legacy is about, you know, leaving behind a story, leaving behind a way they've touched people's lives, you know, um, having a mission, you know. What does legacy really mean for you beyond just leaving money behind?

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah, I think that's very well said because when and we talk about legacy a lot, because a lot of people I serve, um, again, I can't predict the future, but my prediction is they will um they will leave behind a significant amount of money because they have figured out how to control their lifestyle within their means. And a lot of times I even am trying to encourage them to you know to spend some more of their money. They're not spending enough. If you if you want to leave a large amount of money behind, that's one set of goals. But maybe if that's not necessarily what you're trying to do, your behavior is reflective of that. Um, so legacy is really not only what you leave for people, but what you leave in people. And uh those are really fun conversations because in financial planning, you may talk a lot about what the financial resources are that we expect to that you will leave behind. We can have more, much more fun talking about what lessons can you leave behind? What can you teach? What can you share while you're still here? And and so that conversation isn't just focused on when you pass away, it's like what am I going to leave behind between now and then? Because to me, that may even be more important.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

100%. I want to ask you another question too, because it's got me thinking. Um, you know, if someone wanted to completely change their financial life today, what's one thing that they should be doing right now?

SPEAKER_00 34:38

I gave a presentation. I do a lot of tax planning work. I'm I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to taxes, but I gave a presentation about taxes not long ago, uh, which was very timely, was with it being April. Um and really the the gist of this 30 or 40 minute presentation was most of us have access to some type of retirement account at work, 401k, simple Ira, something. Um if that describes you and you don't understand how it works, I encourage you to learn about that. Because uh in this presentation I gave, I basically forecasted out someone's career, how much tax they pay at different levels of income, uh, and how the outcome of their life changes just by putting a small amount of money in their retirement account. I mean, it's drastic. Uh so I would say for most people, if you were to change your financial future, learn about the retirement plan you have access to at work, right? And learn about Roth. Um again, those are those are kind of what, uh, but the the why behind that is I want to do better for my financial future. So, okay, well, this is the decision that will help you do that. 401k is probably the most powerful wealth-building tool. You know, starting a successful business would be a great tool, but that's not really available to most people. 401k and retirement accounts are available to almost everybody. So um engage with that tool, be patient, and wake up five years later and be surprised at what happened. I love that man. Where can people go and find out more about you and what you do? Well, so we are kinetic wealth. We're here in Knoxville. Our website is kineticwealthplanning.com. Um, you can find lots of information there. Uh, you know, obviously, I'm I'm uh have become a little bit more involved with with LinkedIn. You can find me there. We've got Facebook, Instagram, uh, we can text, we can email, we can call. We're trying to set this up to meet people wherever they are. Some people like to text a lot, some people like a phone call. We like all of it. So uh connect with me. Like I said, in the beginning stages of talking with people, we do that always for free. So people can kind of get a first hand experience of what it's like to be a client and they can decide if that's what what they're looking for or not. But yeah, please please reach out with questions.