Is Your Budget Setting You Up to Fail? | Kelsa Dickey | Growing Money with Sean Trace

I sit down with financial coach Kelsa Dickey to unpack why so many smart, disciplined people still struggle with money. 

I learn that traditional budgeting fails 80% of people, not because they lack willpower, but because the whole system is built backward, obsessively tracking what we already spent instead of planning for what's coming.

Kelsa walks me through her three-movement framework, spend fixed, spend future, and spend freely, and shows me how mapping paychecks forward instead of reviewing them backward eliminates guilt, decision fatigue, and the constant feeling of being two steps forward, two steps back. 

If you've ever felt like a failure for abandoning a budget app, this episode will change how you see money completely.

What's one recurring expense you know is coming but never actually prepare for until it hits you?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yeah, I would say that this is connected to your last question about like why is it that smart people are still struggling? This is all very connected, which is that the what is happening is that smart people are actually doing it the right way. They're using the apps, they're tracking their expenses. They're telling themselves, if I want to be good with money, I need to know where every dollar goes. I need to have awareness. I need to be intentional. They're doing all of the right things. And then they're telling themselves, the lie that they're telling themselves is when it doesn't work out, I must be bad at this. I'm just never gonna get ahead. This is just something that like is easy for other people and it's just not easy for me. I don't know why, but it's just not anything that I can figure out. And what I believe or what I've seen is the exact same thing that happened to me. I mean, I have a degree in personal financial planning, I have a master's in accounting. And so I actually did study this stuff and I know that I was doing it right. I know that my husband and I, who also has a master's degree and you know, traveled with the Harlem Globetrotters for a while as their, you know, physical therapists and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. And uh, I mean, very, very accomplished individuals, I would say, and still struggled with money in our early in our marriage.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

All right, welcome everybody back to the Growing Money with Sean Trace Podcast. I'm in a different place than I normally am. I am on the go, but I have an awesome guest with me today. Can you tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, thanks. I'm Kelsa Dickey, and I'm a financial coach, financial strategist, and I really focus on a person's day-to-day finances and I help them plan their paychecks out into the future. So not look behind them and track past spending, but look to the future and see what's coming and get ready for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

I love that. I was just thinking about that recently, that so much of what we do and so much of the budgeting apps and all this stuff is very reactive. But most of our financial life is stuff that we're looking forward. You know, I'll meet with someone, they're like, what did you spend last month? And meanwhile, in my brain, I'm like, I'm looking at that new camera going, hey, how you doing? And they don't even know about that because that's what's going on up here, you know? And so I think that that's one of the big problems that people are always reacting instead of being proactive, you know?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I think it's one of the reasons why guilt is so prevalent when it comes to spending, because if the only thing you do, which is what the tools create, is this, you know, step where you obsessively track where you're spending win and you categorize things. And at the end of the month, you say, okay, we went over by $200 on our eating out this month. It's like, well, what can you do about it? You can't uneat that money, you can't unspend it. It's already too late. And so the only benefit it does is, you know, for you to feel guilty about it and feel badly about a decision you made that you can't undo.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Right, right. Yeah, so many times. Like I've had that. I had something. It it was a uh I donated something to a gym, local gym, and neither here nor there, happy that people can use it. But then um the gym was being really frustrating with me and my family. We've been there for four years, and I know the people well. But then I was like, hey, you have this one payment card, and can we use that? Um, like use it for adults for my daughter, because we travel, she's getting betting back to school, and like for kids, they have this bi-month membership for martial arts. And um, you know, my daughter doesn't go every day. And then there's sometimes that she, and I said, for adults, you have this go as stamp as you go card, and it's the same price as the monthly membership. I said, Can we do that? And they were like, Yeah, no. And I was like, Why not? Like, and so I was sitting there frustrated because I donated to that gym a rowing machine that was just too big for my house, and it was worth, you know, a good amount of money. And I was just like, I regretted that. Not because but you know, when I sat there and I was thinking about it, I said, at the end of the day, it's a great gym. These people, it's just it is a business, it is what it is. But my point being, it's not about that, it's about my feelings. Because if I sit there and I dwell on that, if I hold on to it, doesn't help me in the future when I'm trying to make new decisions. You know, it might be maybe I find a different way to do things, or I figure out, like, I had a bad spend last month. Let's say I did that. You know, I bought something that wasn't smart. Well, how can I make a better decision next time? Because I think that if we spend time in regret, it can be really challenging. And it leads to my first question, though. Why do like I consider myself smart, but I make a lot of bad decisions. I know a lot of people do, you know? Why do smart people still struggle with money?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah, I'm happy to answer that question. First, I just want to touch on something that you had said, Sean, which is I think what could have been helpful in that moment is please uh look reflecting on it from a self-awareness standpoint and say, okay, what can I learn about myself, about my preferences on money when it comes to this idea that this gym, it bothers me that they didn't let me just do this, right? The way I thought it would make more sense for me, right? And so you can look at them be like, okay, what does this tell me about what I value in how I'm spending my money? It was the same amount, so it didn't matter. What that tells me is that it wasn't the dollar amount. It was that you wanted to know that the money you were spending was being used, right? That it was of value. And so you wanted the punch card because you want to be able to see that like we're using it for the amount that we're spending, like the cost matches the value that we're getting, versus I'm spending the same amount of money, but I don't know that I'm getting what I'm supposed to be getting out of it, and that bothers you, right? I think that's really good self-awareness.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

It was interesting too, because it was the part that that triggered it for me was that we traveled to the US and she took two weeks off. And I said, Hey, can we put this on hold? They're like, No, sorry, you can't. I was just like, okay. There's no pause. Yeah. There's no pause. It's not fair.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Again, it's not about the money, I think, for you. And correct me if I'm wrong, I certainly don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I think it's about like getting the value or the benefit of the money being spent, that that is important to you.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

100%. And I sit there and I wonder, because I think one of the things that you just said that I really love, and I'm gonna validate and pat myself on the back because this is something that this podcast has helped me do. One of the things in the past that I think was a big mistake is I just wasn't aware about where my money was going, what I'm doing, and how I was doing it. And that was the big problem because, you know, we can um be on autopilot. But sometimes that autopilot is not the right programming. It's not the right, you know, thing. You know, I I think back about I'm a bit old here, but when you slid that old Nintendo cartridge in and you had to pop the thing down, and then you press the start button, it yeah, yeah, you know, you had to blow through it. You don't understand. And then there was like this this way that you had to just like had it hit the front just a tiny bit so that it would come back.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

You could tell when you put it in whether it was gonna play or not. You're like, oh, I kind of messed that one up. I don't think that was the right feel.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, 100%. You 100% know. But you it was about did I put the right game in? Did I do it the right way? Because so many times you're on autopilot, if I just shoved it and put it down, it's not gonna work. You know, and like I think we think that if we just do the steps, it's gonna work. But the reality is, is that people are telling themselves some lies. You know, the lie is for me, the lie was it's just all gonna work out if I just do the right thing as long as but there has to be intentionality to it, which is I love what you said in the beginning. And I want to ask you that. What's the biggest lie people tell themselves about why they can't get ahead financially?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, I would say that this is connected to your last question about like why is it that smart people are still struggling? This is all very connected, which is that the what is happening is that smart people are do actually doing it the right way. They're using the apps, they're tracking their expenses, they're telling themselves, if I want to be good with money, I need to know where every dollar goes. I need to have awareness, I need to be intentional. They're doing all of the right things. And then they're telling themselves, the lie that they're telling themselves is when it doesn't work out, I must be bad at this. I'm just never gonna get ahead. This is just something that like is easy for other people and it's just not easy for me. I don't know why, but it's just not anything that I can figure out. And what I believe or what I've seen is the exact same thing that happened to me. I mean, I have a degree in personal financial planning, I have a master's in accounting. And so I actually did study this stuff and I know that I was doing it right. I know that my husband and I, who also has a master's degree and you know, traveled with the Harlem Globetrotters for a while as their, you know, physical therapists and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. And uh, I mean, very, very accomplished individuals, I would say, and still struggled with money in our early in our marriage. And it was because, and I'm so glad, Sean, that I was stubborn, that I had this little stubborn streak because I looked at it and I said, I know that I'm doing everything right because I was like a straight A student, ambitious, like I was like the do everything right kind of person. And I know that I was managing my money exactly as I was taught. Every book said to do it this way, my professors, the experts, all sorts of stuff. I know that I was doing it right, and yet we were still struggling. We would have some pay periods or some months where it was totally fine. I'd be getting ahead, putting money in savings, investing, paying down debt. And then the next month it would be like, oh, something came up, something that we weren't ready for. And I would be like, we'll figure it out. We'll just put on a credit card, or we'll just, oh, well, thank God I put money in savings last month. But geez, I guess we're gonna have to use that, right? And it just very much felt like two steps forward, two steps back all the time. And I'm so glad that I was stubborn and said to myself, like, it's not that I'm doing something wrong because I know that I'm doing it right. I am like just so obsessed with like being a perfectionist at the time of my life. This was again 20 some years ago. And I said, What if I were to clean slate this? If I just were to look at it and pretend I didn't know anything about how to manage money and I just looked at my money, what would I notice? And what I noticed was there's actually movement and flow to the way money comes in and out of our checking accounts and how it hits us. And there's three main movements that occur. And if we can control those three main movements, it really boils down to the timing of our expenses and the timing of spending. And if we could get control of the timing of how it's like hitting us, it doesn't actually matter the 15 different categories of eating out versus entertainment versus groceries, all of that. That is not the part that's actually valuable. What's valuable is controlling the timing of it because then you can control what's coming up into the future, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

It does. It does because it's like I was thinking about the other day. I I spend a lot of money, not a lot. I'm actually very frugal, but the one spend that I have that is a larger thing is on um we sent my first daughter's first grade year, we found a private school that we sent her to, but it cost it was not cheap. And we were like, well, this is gonna be the best option for her, you know. But then, you know, they're like, they have we have all these extra classes, and we're like, okay, so we sent her to the karate class. It was like a dude in a cafeteria with a kick pad, and she got to kick the pad two times in the whole class. And then I was just like, We're paying how much for this? So what we decided to do is we put her into public school. We've got her into the best public school we could get in the school district, and then we paid for a lot of extracurricular activities. So she does piano, she does tie boxing, she does art class, she does, you know, all these things. And what I started realizing is that I know that that money's coming, but I still would not prepare for it. And I was like, Finally, I said, dude, I keep reacting to this every month. So one month I just got ahead. I just put aside this is the school fund. This is in here. This is it's just put it there, and then I didn't touch it. And then the next month I wasn't scrambling to go, I forgot to set aside. It was just there.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

And then I was just You mentioned your story there just depicted two of the three movements, if I could share that with you really quickly. So the one, the first movement is an expense that happens every single month, and it usually has a due date attached to it. So chances are, like, I think about my kids' activity, Sean, and my daughter does hip hop, right? So, like on the first of every month, we spend $60 for the hip hop lessons, right? First of every month. And so these are things like rent, mortgage, your cell phone, anything that happens on a recurring basis every single month. We call these spend fixed because they're really fixed. They're happening. There's a due date. We know it's happening, right? That is likely the registration fee that you pay for some of your kids' activities that happen monthly. The other category, though, that you referenced is my daughter, in addition to the hip hop classes once a month, also has the concert once a year, the rehearsal, you know, the recital with the costume and the video and the tickets and the bouquet of flowers and all those types of things. So that doesn't happen every month, but when it happens, it tends to be a more expensive type of moment, right? So you may play like travel sports, and so there's a tournament fee plus a hotel, plus that sort of thing, right? That's more random. We call these your spend future expenses. These are expenses that are coming in the future. They don't happen every month, but when they happen, they tend to happen big. And just like you mentioned, I like saving monthly for those expenses. So I like thinking about what are those types of things and putting money aside every single month for them.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

And again, it's like that one of the things that I I that was a huge shift for me in personal finance was the just stop reacting. Because I think so many people my daughter and I were playing this game the other day. No, it wasn't a game, but we were in the room, and I was like just trying to play up. Like I had good I studied martial arts for many years, and one of the few things that I I haven't gotten in a ton of fights. I'm very good in martial arts matches, but I'm not going out going, let me show you what I can do. It's not my not my style. I'm more of a comedy guy. Um, but one of the things is that from studying martial arts all those years, I have really good reflexes. So someone tosses something at me, I just I I can grab it. It just happens. So my daughter started realizing this. And she was like, time to test that. And even if you have good reflexes, if someone tosses something at you, you're gonna get hit upside the head half the time, you know, just because you're in that reactive mode. Versus if I walk in the room and I see her holding a ball, I'm going, eh, I know what's happening in a second. I know I know where you're gonna go with that. And so, boom, I catch it and it's good. You know, we're good. But like, that's one of the things that I've always found, I still haven't found budgets that I like. The only thing that actually works for me is the envelope method, you know, and or some variation of that. Like, you know, maybe a more adult method for sure. Digital envelope or a bucket method, because for me, I'm setting it aside. And when I get into all the budgeting apps, I still feel like so many of them. Let's track, track, track, track, track, track, track. And it's it's backward looking versus forward looking, you know? And I but I like that's my conversation.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

I like people to know, Sean, that like I'm a financial expert, and I could not tell you last month what I spent on eating out versus groceries. I could not tell you. Right. I just know that I'm I have money going towards my goals and that we have a set amount that we spend. We call it our spend freely. This is the third category that we didn't mention, which is like all of your spending, like your day-to-day spending, stuff that happens every month, but there's no due date. It's like groceries, gas, stopping for coffee, going out for drinks, you know, all that kind of stuff. And we, every pay period, we just set money into a checking account. That's what we get to spend. You could also use a credit card for something like this, but it's the same thing. It's like the bucket system, right? And I know that as long as we're spending that money, I don't need to track any of it. I don't care. You know, there are some weeks, the way my life goes, and I think this is true for most people that are busy and busy professionals and who are ambitious and who have a lot of goals, is that we can have a week where like I'm doing all of my meal planning on a Sunday, I'm going to the grocery store, I'm doing all of my meal prepping. I we barely eat out that week. I feel like I'm like a domestic goddess that week, right? And then I have a week where like my husband's traveling for work, maybe one of the kids is sick, I'm tired. Like we're doing takeout every night of the week because we're just in survival mode. But as long as we're spending in our spending account, we don't really care. We don't really sort of think about it as eating out versus groceries. We just think about this category as life, just getting by in life, because life does fluctuate. And yet most budgeting is so it's not even just restrictive, it's strict. It's like, this is how much you have for this particular category of life. And it's like, well, most of us don't live our lives, our life in categories. You know what I mean? So it's like, who cares whether you spend, you know, a mile on eating out versus groceries? I just don't think it really matters. And I think the amount of time people spend on tracking and categorizing is actually preventing them from being able to zoom out and actually see a bigger picture with their money and see what could really move the needle and see what could really create some leverage and momentum.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

100%. Like the when you I find that when I try to track my spending month to month, I get about 20 days in. And I'm lucky if I get 20 days, and I'm like, I'm done. I can't keep up. And that's why like I wanna, you know, I just it just gets overwhelming. And I'm like, oh, I just spent three dollars and ten cents on a soda or or coffee. And I'm just like, and I have to track all those little things because right. And for me, especially because I travel and live in a place that cash is used a lot, it gets even more like difficult, you know? So like when you're swiping, okay, your card can show it to you. But like, this is again why I want to ask. Why do budgets work for some people make others want to quit almost immediately?

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I would say when it comes to something like tracking like that, the re it's it's overwhelming because it's time consuming and it's tedious and it's just, you know, annoying. But most importantly, it does not provide any value. It can provide value maybe the first time you do it. If you have no idea if you spend 500 or 1,500 on groceries in a month, it can be good to sort of get just a baseline idea, you know, just that way we're not like guessing purely. But after that, it really doesn't help much, except for, like I said, show you after you've already spent money if you're over budget, which does not do any good. It does not help you in the moment make a better decision. Now, when it comes to why, though, do can some people budget? First of all, I will say that 80% of people do not budget. So the large majority of people, it is a failed system. The traditional budgeting method does not work for 80% of people. And we could sit here and say that it's traditional budgeting works. I say it fails. It is a failed methodology because if 80% of people can do it, then why are we saying it's a success? And my argument is that the other 20% of people, there, there are people who naturally, and I mean truly naturally, just will always spend less than they make. It is as simple as that. They don't need to track to know that. They can just, it's like a pulse that they have. And I don't think it's 20% of people, but I do think it is a certain, I think about my grandpa was this way. You know, he didn't have apps or tech or any of that. He just was always really good at, you know, he kept his wants in check very naturally. He wasn't somebody that like wanted a lot of things or like was really tempted by things and all of that. He just, you know, lived a very simple life, enjoyed simple things, but really, you know, always lived spending less than he made. It was just a very natural thing for him to do. And I do think there's a number of people who can do that naturally and still get ahead without tracking their expenses. But I don't think that those people are an argument that says that traditional budgeting actually works for them because my guess is they're not actually budgeting in that way.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

I think so. And I I sit there and like I'm actually going back and doing my master's in um in computer science and and looking at because part of me, I do a lot of stuff. I would love to be able to be part of a team that develops a great app that helps people sit there and I'm not a budgeting app, not uh just an app of like, here's what you did and was it great? Okay, it'd be better. Here's the movement, this is what you did differently. Because for me, I I see all these numbers, I see all this and that, and I just get really confused. But one of the things that like I need to be able to understand, am I making enough? Am I spending too much? Do I need to try to increase this or that?

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Well, one thing I'll tell you when you, Sean, really quickly, when you plan paychecks out into the future versus looking behind you, and this is it's not just a mental shift. When you plan your paychecks out into the future, one of the things you're able to do, and I would love to show you the spend first app at some point. It's still in development, but I would love to show it to you and just get your take on it. What you're able to do when you're when you have all of your paychecks mapped out. So all of your bills are, you know, the the spend fixes by due date. So there's a date you can attach it to a paycheck very easily. Your spend freely amount, that second movement, we just transfer the same amount into a spending account every payday, like clockwork. So it's a regular rhythm. And then we fund these savings buckets on a set schedule, right? For all the spend future expenses. So then what happens is every paycheck looks very similar. They're very routine, very regular, very predictable, right? Then when you're able to do that, the best thing forms, which is if I want to spend money today, let's say I'm tempted by something, whether it's a new iPhone or a new iWatch or like, you know, whatever it might be, some new tech, Sean that you want. I know that you like to do production type stuff. So maybe there's some new piece of equipment, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

You're able to add it real time and say, what is the impact of this decision, not just on my paycheck right now or that my checking. Account balance right now, but on my financial position, six pay periods from now. And if you do that, it can actually show you the impact of that real time before you make the decision, not afterwards. Does that make sense? And to me, that's where you really want to be able to show that because that's where the decision point comes in. I want to know my money so that I know how to make a better decision in the moment, not afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Right? You know, one of the things to me is like, yeah. So I'm looking at next week, week and a half from now, I'm flying back to Napa because I have five podcasts. I know it's a bit much, but I do this because I have different topics I love.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

But one of them is uh I was gonna say, if you're loving it, I think it sounds great.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Yeah, right. And I grew up in the Napa Valley and um grew up around wine. So wine country for me is home. And yet they're going through a hard time right now. The wine industry is just getting hammered. And so all these amazing people are losing their jobs and dealing with challenges. And I wanted to tell the story of those people. You know, people think, oh Napa, you go there and like these companies came in, and now they're like, here's your $5,000 experience. Meanwhile, there's some guy out in the field who's just hands-on in the grapes, just in the dirt, cutting these things off. It's just a very human profession. So I'm flying back next week to uh film a documentary. I've got 11 wineries lined up that I will go in and I will follow them for a day. Now, I don't want to be carrying my big, I have a really beautiful Sony and like a nice giant gimbal that I shoot used to film music videos for my wife. Um, my wife is a famous singer in Vietnam. I know another weird story fact. Um, but I don't want to carry that camera. I'm, you know, I have the little Osmo pocket that I love, but they just came out with a new Osmo that has more cinematic features and things like that. And I'm sitting there, and as I was looking to buy it yesterday, and I didn't buy it because no one had the creator combo, which is a much better value. But as I was looking at it and I'm thinking, is this a good purchase? You know, I'm pulling out some app and reviewing, like, is this a, you know, let me look at my spending last month, let me, versus here's my bucket, here's what I've got. I know that I can do that. I'm okay there. I'm I'm okay. You know, basically it's fast, it's quick, it's forward-looking. So, you know, you're you're um speaking my language.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah. A digital bucket system of any kind, whether, I mean, there's a lot of different ones out there. Spend first, of course, uses three different movements, but you know, there's a lot of different kinds, it really does create guilt-free spending. I think about the fact that, you know, I've got a clothing fund, I've got a vacation fund, I've got a car fund. And I think about before I started, you know, really managing and setting up my money this way. If on Friday I wanted to go buy myself clothes and then on Saturday I booked plane tickets, and then on Sunday my car broke down. That car breaking down on Sunday would have made me regret buying myself clothes on Friday and the plane tickets I bought the day before, because I would have been like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. You know what I mean? Oh, now I'm like draining my savings even more, kind of thing. Because sort of three big things happening all at one time can feel really stressful. Like, oh my God, is the other shoe gonna drop? Like, what's the next thing that's gonna happen and I'm gonna need to use my savings for that kind of thing. But when you set up your money to have different, you know, sort of digital envelopes or digital buckets, I can have, you know, go clothing shopping on Friday, use my clothing fund, book plane tickets on Saturday and use my travel fund. And then my car breakdown and I need to get a repair done to it on Sunday and use my car fund. And it's like in my world, those three things are not connected at all anymore. They're just, they were all planned for. Money was, you know, set aside and ready to be there for life just happening. Because in my mind, all of those are examples of just life. It's not a matter of if they're going to happen, it's a matter of when.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

It's so true. You know, it is when bad things happen and emergencies happen.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

And if you can just be ready, you know, um And I would even say, Sean, just really quickly, sorry, but like even just good, happy expenses, like booking plane tickets. That's a very fun thing that we don't do every month on a set amount. It does happen where like, oh my God, I just got to book plane tickets and they're gonna be $2,500 for, you know, with this weekend kind of thing for plane tickets. Like it just happens in one-time moments like that, oftentimes, that a monthly budget doesn't allow it doesn't accommodate for, it doesn't accommodate for real life. It does not fit real life at all. So that's where like those movements, if you're just setting aside money every month into a travel fund, you might not know exactly when you're gonna drop money on plane tickets, but you're essentially getting ready for it because you know at some point you're going to want to. So why not just prepare for it ahead of time? You're essentially backing your wants in advance, is the way I think about it. Like, I know I'm gonna want to go shopping for some new clothes, so I'm gonna put some money in a clothing fund for myself. I know I'm gonna want my, you know, treat my kids at Christmas time, so I'm gonna beef up a gift fund and I'm gonna wanna book plane tickets to go see my sister, and so I have, you know, a travel fund. So think about it as like you know, backing your own lifestyle in advance is the way I like to think about it.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

I I think that that's it. You know, uh there was a great example of this. My wife and I, um I I love one thing, and I I I found this, and I just was like, I need some simple reading. The zombie survival guidebook. Is it? I found this book. It's ridiculously funny and awesome. And it's actually like you read it and you're like, that is actually rad. Like someone did their research and thought about it. I love zombie movies.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Oh my god, we did it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Oh, dude, zombie movies. Dude, oh yeah. It's my bread and butter. And but one of the things when COVID hit, I remember in November of 2019, my wife and I were sitting there looking at this and going, Hey, um, do you think this is gonna be okay? Or what's going on here? And we talked to friends of ours that were, you know, medical professionals, like, yeah, don't worry about it, it's gonna blow over. But like, I looked at my wife, I was like, I've watched enough zombie movies to say, let's we might be wrong, but let's prep for something a little bit. So we went and we bought a thousand pounds of rice and got an extra freezer, stocked the freezer with meat, and we I bought like huge things of beans for me, and we got all this food. And I said, Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. It's okay, maybe I'm wrong. We had a six-month total lockdown in Vietnam, no one going out of their house, no one able to go anywhere. And that food kept us okay. So you're not crazy to look toward the future, you're not crazy to plan for things that might happen. It is simply a person who sits there and goes, I I had a Navy SEA, I have a bunch of Navy SEALs that I talked to on my Chantre show podcast, but one of the guys was like, um, you know, one of the big big things they say is plan for the worst, hope for the best. It's that simple. You plan for the worst, but hope for the best, you know?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

I also think there's a little bit of this idea that like planning ahead needs to be perfect. And I do think this comes a little bit from the typical budgeting advice is like it's just gotta be perfect, and you every dollar make it stick and stick to the budget, and just this idea of like such precision that I think that actually prevents people from wanting to plan ahead too, because there's no way that we can actually predict the future. And so it's sort of this idea of like, well, if I can't predict it perfectly and that's the bar that I'm setting for myself, or that's what the expectation is, then why bother? Sort of thing. But I always say that like if you can plan for 75% of what's coming, the other 25% is so much easier to just handle real time. And I never doubt you were talking earlier about how quick you are and your reflexes and that sort of thing. I actually never doubt my clients' ability to improvise and react real time because they have been doing it. They have been just figuring it out real time their entire life when it comes to money. Like they can absolutely do that. That's what they've been doing. So I don't doubt their ability if we're imperfect with our plan, that we can handle it. They've been handling it. It's just a matter of like you shouldn't have to. And it's so much easier to not have to be so reactive. It's more calming, it's easier, it's more effective. I feel like you can enjoy life better. I always say that it makes you a better villager. You know, I think about, you know, one of the things that we do is whenever my my kids' school, the teacher sends out an email for an upcoming field trip. There's usually a fee attached to it. I always register multiple. And the teacher always knows that those just go to other kids that maybe couldn't afford to go on the field trip without a sponsored ticket sort of thing. And that's awesome. I think about the fact that like we do that without any, I don't even know which kids they go to. I we don't get any attention for it or anything like that. But my kids know we do it. And I think that's really what matters is that for some kid, they got the experience of going on a school field trip that maybe wouldn't have otherwise been able to. And I think about when you feel good about where you are financially, and you can look ahead and say, not only am I good now, but I can see around the horizon. And I'm also good 90 days from now too, or six months from now with my expense, my with my spending and upcoming expenses too. I think it just gives you an ability to sort of look up and around you a little bit better too, and see like, so what can I do for somebody else? Like in in small ways. You know, again, it's not anything big, it might only be a $10 field trip fee, but it's one of those things where like $10 to me is easy. And so I would love to like be able to help somebody's kid go on a field trip.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

I I love that. And I want to ask you a question too. Like, what gives you hope that anyone can improve their relationship with money?

SPEAKER_01 31:45

What gives me hope are my clients because I see it every single day. Like I have proof, you know what I mean? And this is where I will also say that my clients have given me so many gifts in the sense that like I used to be very rules-based around money. You know, 20 years ago, I used to say like credit cards are evil and things like that. But it was actually my clients proving to me that, you know, really smart, really financially successful people who use credit cards very diligently. I use credit cards now, but again, 20 years ago, you wouldn't have caught me doing that because I would have thought they were bad and like that kind of thing. And at the end of the day, I just stay very open to this idea that like uh personal finance is personal. I know people say that, but it really should be driven by the human and by the person. And people are really good, capable people. And if you give them a skill of planning ahead with their money, what they can do with that money is really beautiful things. And I think that I'm very blessed because I work with very hardworking, driven, ambitious people who also just happen to be like very kind and generous when as soon as they're able to. It's like one of the reasons that motivates them. And I find that that is very motivating.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

If you could give um, if someone wanted to stop stressing about money, what's the first step you would have them take today?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I would have them open up some savings buckets. I would think about the three expenses that you have maybe in the next 90 days that worry you, that worry you of like, am I going to be ready for this? What if this happens? Could will I be ready for it? Maybe it's your car breaking down or, you know, a water leak or something like that. And I want you to open three savings accounts, title each one, whatever that worry is of yours. And every pay period, just start putting a little bit aside. It can be $5, it can be $500. The amount matters less than the habit and the rhythm you're forming. This mindset shift of like, I know exactly what worries me, and I'm getting ready for it. I'm I am in the driver's seat here. I'm preparing for it. Even a little bit will help so immensely that step. And there's a lot of banks that will allow you to open as many savings accounts as you want with no minimum balance requirements, no fees, you know, those types of things. There's some recommendations on my website. I've got some bank recommendations on there if people want to check it out. Um, but I would absolutely do that because what you're doing is you're you're simultaneously shifting your outlook to the future as opposed to behind you. You're not thinking about tracking what you did last week or last month. You're really thinking about what's coming up in the next 90 days. You're prioritizing by focusing on the thing that worries you the most, which can be a driver of like resolving that worry can be a driver to actually stick with a habit that's new, if that makes sense. Like I am with each paycheck, I'm diminishing this worry a little bit more. I'm reducing it just slightly a little bit more with every transfer that I put into say the savings account that says car on it or whatever it is. I know that I'm just doing a little bit better at getting ahead of it. What that does to someone's belief in themselves, their confidence, you know, the momentum that forms, it can those those things right there, shifting their outlook, building a new habit, boosting their self-trust is why I would say that that's the first step that I would do.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

That's huge. So that's like a whole journey right there, which is amazing. But where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yes, you can go to spendfirst.com, and I would say spendfirst.com slash start, which has all the bank recommendations, the how-to guides, everything for free, all the free resources that we have, paycheck planners, all sorts of things out there to really help you plan your paychecks out into the future. And I will also say, even if you don't get a steady paycheck, if you're an entrepreneur, we've got resources available for that as well. You essentially create a self paycheck, and there's trainings on my website all about that as well.