E31: Signs of Inclusion: Conversations with Lingvano's Sign Language Innovators

In this episode of United in Accessibility, we welcome Johanna Steiner and Daniel H. Logar, leading voices in promoting inclusive education and breaking down language barriers. Johanna, an advocate for Deaf education, and Daniel, Head of Business Development at Lingvano, discuss sign language innovation and empowerment for individuals with disabilities, offering invaluable insights into creating a more inclusive society.

Transcript

00:03 Speaker  

Welcome to the IAAP United in Accessibility podcast, the podcast where we dive deep into the latest in accessibility and inclusion. We are very excited to introduce our two guests today. Our first guest is Johanna Steiner, a passionate advocate for Inclusive Education and Sign Language with a background in Educational Sciences. She's focused on empowering individuals with disabilities, particularly in Deaf Education. Currently, she's the Educational Manager at Lingvano, expanding opportunities for deaf youth and adults mastering her third sign language. Joining Johanna is Daniel H. Logar the Head of Business Development at Lingvano. Daniel's background in strategic management in international studies, combined with his focus on breaking down language barriers brings a wealth of experience in promoting inclusivity. Join us as we delve into Johanna and Daniel's insights on sign language innovation and education at Lingvano on the United in Accessibility podcast.

01:06 Christopher Michael Lee  

Hello, everyone. My name is Christopher Lee. I'm with IAAP and this is the United in Accessibility podcast. I want to welcome Johanna and Daniel to this episode, and I'm looking forward to hearing about the company that you're running and some of the great things that you are doing. So, let's start off Johanna, just tell us a little bit about yourself and about why you got into accessibility. 

01:26 Johanna Steiner  

Hi, everyone. My name is Johanna Steiner, I'm very happy to be here. My journey it's not only accessibility, it's more inclusive, education inclusive being it started like 20 years ago, when I first came back from Ireland, I spent there over a year, I applied for social work to be a social worker. But at the final interview, I got through all the rounds at the final interview, I got to ask one question it was about who can't you imagine working with when you're a social worker? And just straight from a gutter I answered, like Yeah, people with disabilities and I got this look, and it made me kind of wonder. And in the end, I didn't get in. So, I started with Educational Sciences. One of the first seminars you have to take is about writing scientific papers and there was one with a topic of just disability in general. So, I thought, I remembered this one occasion, and I wanted to tackle that I didn't know what it was, but I really felt a strong urge to go there. So, I applied for this one seminar I got in and from there It's like a dream wave I'm just writing because I started this study, then I got into the first curriculum for sign languages in Austria, in Vienna. And from there, and it was just the journey, I was in an Educational Institute for the Deaf for several years, I was the educational management when we tried when we actually built a social franchise in Hamburg was the first franchise. I was in the headquarters there, then I found the job at Lingvano and I really wanted to take it. So, I quit there and I started here. And that's why I'm here 20 years later. 

03:03 Christopher Michael Lee  

Wow, thank you for sharing that. First of all, I love your accent. I'm a huge fan of Ireland, the nicest people ever. And I will tell you that, you know, I have a lot of admiration for the direction that you started off with. And I think it bleeds over to what you're doing now, which is helping people and inclusive environments to make environments more inclusive. Social work is such an important field and a very tough field. So, hats off for you're going that direction. So, Daniel, speak a little bit about yourself and why you got into inclusion or accessibility. 

03:36 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, thanks first of all, for having us. You're not going to get an Irish accent with me, but an Austrian one. Hopefully you like that too. Either way, like, Yeah, I'm Daniel, Head of Business Development at Lingvano. And funnily enough, I only got into accessibility recently by joining Lingvano before that, I studied Business Administration, and I worked in the startup scene in Austria and Vienna. And that's really my background, and then I joined Lingvano and of course, also got into accessibilities, because I always wanted to have kind of an impact also to start up, I was working at before was focused on having an environmental impact. So that was something that's very important. I think Lingvano just saw that they are having an impact on a different level, but very important, of course. And this is how I got into this, and I had so many learnings in the last two years working here. Johanna and me, we went to the US, and we also met you Christopher at conferences and it's just awesome talking to people and what it really like is this feeling of making a difference working for something that's not just a job, but really that makes a difference. And that's how I got into accessibility and the journey is still ongoing and it's still very exciting. 

04:47 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you for that. It's interesting that you use the word environmental, to improve the environmental arena and that you've fallen into this this carrier path which you're doing the same thing just in a very different way that you think environmental, right? So, I think that's pretty cool. So, I met you at Zero Project in Austria, in February of this year, and I was able to hear your pitch on Lingvano and the work that you're doing, can you share us with all participants that are listening to a little bit about the company and the mission and where you want to see it going? 

05:23 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, sure. So basically, what we do at Lingvano is we produce an app for learning sign languages. And the goal is really to break down the language barriers between deaf and hearing people, by getting here and people to learn sign language, getting them in contact with Deaf culture, and really getting them to a level where they can communicate. And I don't want to bore you with any too much like historical details of our company, but it was founded 2018 was actually deaf, co-founded. And then we added Austrian sign language 2019, American Sign Language in 2020. 2021, we actually launched an app. So that's also when we kind of became a mobile business and that's also when our growth took off immensely and that's, of course, good for business more importantly, it increased the impact we're having, because through the app, we could just reach a lot more people. And we now have a lot more people learning sign language than we did in the beginning. So, 2022, we also edit BSL, British Sign Language and yeah, right now, we are a Member of IAAP. Proud member, we won the Zero Project Award, and we are proud to have more than 2 million users at this point. So, this has really been some massive growth, and most importantly, growth in the impact, we're having.

06:36 Christopher Michael Lee  

2 million users. Wow. That's definitely it keeps you up. I have all the time working right. But for good cause, right? Johanna, just kind of feeding off what Daniel said. I mean, since you've been with the company, you know, what changes have you seen in regard to particularly the mobile app area? What excites you about where you're going with that? And all the additional features that are coming out? 

07:02 Johanna Steiner  

Yes, since I tried started or joined, like a little bit more than a year ago, we added more features. Yeah, we did, but our focus was on different things like making more accessible. So that was one of our journeys, making it more accessible for everything that we can cover, we decided to show us more to attend more events to attend more online or in person events to spread our mission. So I really appreciate that, because you only can learn about a sign language or any language, if you really get the people involved if you form a community where people can actually learn and practice and that's one of the things we're heading towards too, so not only have the app in learning in app learning thing, but always also events, live events on a learning events. So that's what we're working on right now and it will go live throughout the year. And yeah, that's what I'm really excited about. 

07:56 Christopher Michael Lee  

It's great, thank you. So how do Lingvano Sign Language courses cater to real life situations, especially for individuals facing communication barriers, and everyday settings? So, such as shopping, or restaurants, or work or education? Daniel, can you speak a little bit about that? 

08:14 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, sure, sure. I also want to get your Johanna input, because she's the expert with that, but I can start off. Basically, one important part is that we have that all of our teachers are deaf. So, you're really learning from the experts so to say, because they're deaf natives, they grew up, signing. So this is one important part, but as regards the course, are really try to focus on this everyday communication, like one of the first signs and it's kind of obvious, but of course, it first did kind of learn how to sign "Hello" and "you”, "me", "names". So really what you need to do this very basic communicate, there's really something we focus on and through that you can actually make progress fast. And then when you are meeting a deaf person in real life, you might already be able to have your first conversation. But I would like to hand it over to Johanna, because she's learning expert on the team. And I'm sure she has good stuff to share here. 

09:07 Christopher Michael Lee  

All right, Johanna. 

09:08 Johanna Steiner  

So, what I want to say too, is we didn't follow our language learning curriculum, because we wanted to make it really appropriate for real life situations. So, we made our own curriculum, we follow that and within the first few lessons, you're actually able to have some basic communication with deaf people or signing people. We also offer trainers, it's like a different feature in the app, where it can practice your fingerspelling your numbers and your vocabulary and we have a dictionary. So, if you have someone coming into your store into the restaurant, and they would like to have something you would like to answer them, you can always look up the sign, and then just sign it to them. So, we facilitate communication there too. And yeah, it's always like with eight modules we have in each module, there's several chapters, at least 12 to 15 and in each chapter, we have several lessons. So, there's a huge amount of content we cover. And we not only cover language, which is important, but language doesn't survive without the culture without the knowledge about Deaf culture, Deaf history, how to approach Deaf people how to make your office Deaf, friendly. So that's all the little aspects we cover to make the life of Deaf people more accessible. 

 10:20 Christopher Michael Lee  

So I have a question for you in regards to Deaf culture, you know, it's very different in the sense of you come from a family of Deaf parents or a Deaf parent, or you become Deaf in developing the curriculum, you know, which I'm really excited about that you're doing the day to day related activities, can you talk a little bit Johanna about how you get input from the Deaf community, when it is so different, not devices, but in in different ways that you kind of fall into these buckets.
 
 10:51 Johanna Steiner  

There is a huge variety of Deaf identity, as you mentioned. If you are a coder child of this adult, or if you have a multi-generational family, or if you like 90% of the children, Deaf children who are born into hearing families. So, there we have a huge problem of language deprivation. That's something we can't really cover in the app. But something we want to cover, or we have already covered too, in webinars where it's about awareness raising. And I think that's such a sensitive topic, you can't really cover it in the app, it's something you have to transport more directly and in exchange, and the people can actually ask questions, because there will always be questions. And those webinars will always hold them together, like in a hearing and Deaf pair. So, it's always paired to deaf and hearing person so that we can cover all aspects and yeah, I think it's very important because we are a mixed team. And we want to give everyone the chance to shine, you know, and we have a huge expertise, not only the hearing people, but we are like on the same level as our Deaf peers. And we always go to them for advice. They are our Deaf community in house, but we always take it seriously. If we get feedback from the community from outside. We always work together with influencers, and we take all the feedback very seriously. And we always make adaptations to our content and to how we work. How do we spread our message.

12:24 Speaker  

The International Association of Accessibility Professionals currently offers six certifications. IAAP certifications are indicators of your commitment to the accessibility profession, industry and community. View the certification overview page on our website to learn more.

12:42 Christopher Michael Lee  

I would think that having all your teachers being Deaf plays a huge role in to making sure that that the day-to-day cultural activities of an individual who is deaf is kind of funneled into that from the history aspect. I'm thinking within that module chapter, particularly. And so, I'm really excited to know that I had no idea actually that all of them were deaf until just now. And I should have had that on my radar. So, can you speak a little bit about typical individuals that are using the app right now? Is there one or two individuals that you've been able to kind of pay attention to a little bit and go, wow, this is really working? I'm really happy and excited to see this. This moving forward? 

13:28 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of interesting, because at the very beginning, when you sign up in the app, we actually have a question where we ask the users, why do you want to learn sign languages? And there are a couple of answers you can take, like, for a friend, family, work. And the answer that's picked the most is actually learning for fun. So, I think it's like two thirds of all of the learners are kind of learning for fun, they want to try out something new. That's remarkable, because that means sign language, which is not just something for people, like it's not just a niche, it's not just a small group, but it's really something that can become way bigger. It's like, okay, I want to learn new language, I could learn Spanish, French, Italian, German, but it could also learn sign language. And we do see that many users appreciate that. And the reason why they learn is then really because they're curious and that's fantastic. Because we can spread this about the good spread the news and the information about sign language to way more people because they're getting so much interest from there. So that's one of the things we notice. And apart from that also, like organizationally, there are a lot of educational institutions who are very interested in this, especially universities or school districts, many of using this like in their school, or maybe some schools have that students and they have to teach us this so they can communicate with the Deaf students. So that's on our organization level. It's really like educational institutions, whether universities or schools that are heavily using the app. 

14:55 Christopher Michael Lee  

So, I'm thinking that you know, I'm just visualizing what the cool thing is, you have a student who is Deaf in a school and other student trying to walk towards communicating with the individual and be able to use the app to do that. So that's one kind of scenario that I think, wow, wouldn't that be super cool to be exposed to that. I would love to be that kid that's have the app to communicate. And then the other scenario that I'm kind of visualizing as, as, as you're talking to Daniel is, is that is the idea of universities and colleges actually having this built into the curriculum, in a sense and so, you know, and even the high school you think about, you know, a lot of people having to learn different languages, and how some people really struggle. For me, you know, I grew up having dyslexia and learning disabilities. So, taking Spanish and other related languages, really, I struggled with, I got through them, but I struggled with them. Right? If I would have had this opportunity to use this app to learn the language, sign language, it would have been amazing. It'll be in such a gift. Are you seeing any one of those scenarios? The question for both of you, any one of those scenarios happening? 

16:02 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, if I can jump in here, this, thanks for matching the school again, because there was such a lovely email I received once where we I think we've given like 100 accesses to a school district in Minnesota. And they kind of handed this out to all kinds of people like they had a couple of Deaf children in their school, and they handed this to teachers, but also to, like, I think, people outside of the school. And there was one teacher that wrote us that she said, Yeah, I'm using the app and I'm like, kind of taking care of the children. I'm like, like the supervisor, like in the breaks, that makes sure that nothing happens. And then she could actually sign with the person and that really, like worked because she could communicate, and she was even like, then writing and I was like, exactly, that's the impact that we're looking for. And it was such, it was so flattered by this email, because that's exactly the mission, you know, breaking down the language barriers and facilitating the communication. So yeah, that's definitely happening.

16:58 Johanna Steiner  

Can I add something? So, I think, especially for children, or people in general with like, learning disabilities or something, I think our app really serves them too. So just today, we got feedback. Yeah, I'm neurodivergent. But like, I can learn sign language with your app, it's so easy, it serves my needs, you know, it's we use micro learning, we use gamification, who doesn't want you to have a little challenge, you know, so it's fun to learn with us and it doesn't take long, it takes maybe five to 10 minutes a day and you get really fluent with us, you know, so if you learn with us, you can achieve a level of like everyday communication, which is great with zero hassle. You don't have to attend a course, if you don't like to attend in person meetings, if you don't like to attend those courses, you can just use our app and just learn with us, you know. So, we serve so many different needs and purposes, I think that's what makes us really standing out. 

17:52 Christopher Michael Lee  

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, the whole landscape of education, how people learning are changing, right? It's got to be mobile, it's got to be quick, it's got to be when you're on a train, you know, you're on the plane, you've got to be able to kind of engage in that time that you have, because we're also busy. So having that the app come out that keep 2020, I think you said is great. I mean, that's pretty exciting. Now for my understanding, another piece of this new learning profile that was seen that sweeping across high schools and sweeping across higher education is gamification. Right? That's, that's big. That's huge. And in fact, even at IAAP, we're about to bring on an AI platform. That's mobile, that's quick that has gamification components into it, just because we know that we'll lose our members if we don't do that. So, can you talk about Lingvano is building in gamification into the app? 

18:45 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, sure. So, there are a couple of things that we do to kind of gamify the experience and the goal really is to make learning experience fun to have to use a comeback, ideally every day, because that's how they are going to make progress. Come back every day, even if it's just to five or 10 minutes, but that's how to make progress. One way we do it is that we have strict feature. So, it's kind of you know, if you do a lesson every day, then your streak increases. And we've seen that this is highly motivating for people, we have people who have a streak of 100 days or more. And in schools, we've noticed that like, if a class is using the app, then they kind of like battling, okay, who can have the highest streak, so we really kind of seeing that this increases the frequency that they come back, and ultimately the frequency that they progress in learning sign languages. So that's one thing we do and that has worked quite well. And apart from that, it's also just if you go through the course, it's not just, you know, a boring thing. But it's like quizzes, it's with pictures, you can do things interactively, and there is an interactive dialogue you can do. So, lots of things that are there to really make this fun. 

19:52 Christopher Michael Lee  

So, a question here in regard to you, you mentioned this I think Daniel at the very beginning, is around the British Sign Language aspect of this. So, there was content and British Sign Language, which now for my understanding. What plans does Lingvano have to do to expand the range of sign language and the platform?

20:12 Johanna Steiner  

First of this year, we're working on adding more BSL content, because it's not on the same level as ASL yet. And yes, we're working on adding several other sign languages in the future. I can't talk more about that yet, but yes, of course, we need to add more, and we want to add more sign languages, because we want to reach more people, we want to make the world more inclusive. And that's not just with three sign languages, they're like, around 200 sign language in the world, with regional dialects, especially if you're, for example, if you in Germany, you have a split between the northern and southern parts, same in Great Britain, and it's for other languages, too. So, there's a lot to cover for us. But yeah, we're working on it. 

20:53 Christopher Michael Lee  

That's exciting. Sounds like there's a lot to come. And it sounds like a lot of work, but so important and work that needs to be done, so you can reach a larger, larger audience. So that's, that's pretty exciting. So, in regard to just how you work with IAAP, and the standpoint of partnership, any thoughts around that, Daniel? 

21:10 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, I mean, so far, it has been a really good, especially in terms of the network. I mean, we've met so many people at conferences, and also the events, there is now also like, because we're based in Europe, in Austria, and there's a special division or not sure how exactly you call it, but a special part of IAAP, in the D-A-C-H region, so that's Austrian, Germany, and Switzerland. So, it was also pretty cool to meet some of the colleagues here at the conferences that are like geographically very close to us. So that was pretty cool. 

21:40 Johanna Steiner  

Yeah, and I really like your platform, your network, your online forum, because that's where I get a lot of insights from, and my colleagues too, we really appreciate that. It's very great to get new insights and to ask questions, and then I love your webinars, I love everything that you do, and especially that you're always adding more certifications. So that's really highly appreciated for me. I think one of the reasons we decided last year to join IAAP was that it gives us credibility too, because you're so highly rated in the community and we were really excited when we were able to join, and I think it gives us a lot of value too. 

22:19 Christopher Michael Lee  

That's great to hear, obviously, that's music to my ears. I like to hear that. And I love meeting new members that come in, that are really taken advantage of, of the networking and the wealth of of just subject matter experts around the world that is filtered into all platforms. So that's so nice to hear. I hope that continues and also, as a relatively new member, feel free to reach out to us definitely continue to push us to be a better Association and offer more benefits. That's, that's part of the fun of this is to be able to expand and learn from our organizational members. And because we have such a diverse sector and industry base, having members like you add such a value to some of the other members that we have. So, we try to get them engaged. So, I know we're coming towards the end. But I did want to ask you, both of you to join, I'll start with you. Do you have any last thoughts or takeaways to get to our listeners about the work that you're doing and the importance of it?

23:23 Johanna Steiner  

I think the most important thing is don't be afraid to learn sign language, don't be scared to approach Deaf people. And if you feel a little bit weird about it, use our app first and then you feel a little bit more strongly connected and then you can approach people and it's going to be easy, you know, it's going to be so easy. And it's going to add a high value to yourself that when I started learning my first language, it was like a huge world that opened for me, and I hope it's same for you. And now I'm learning the third sign language and then opening more doors and even more doors and more insights. And I think it's up to us humans to learn something to grow and not always rely on technology. I think technology's great, it does a lot of accessibility, but it's not always there. It can break, the battery can be dead, anything you know. So, it's always up to us to and not just use great technology. So yeah, start learning sign language with us, it's going to be great.

24:22 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you, Daniel. 

24:23 Daniel H. Logar  

Yeah, I mean, for me, it will be that when I meet people, just in general, also at conferences, many people you know, want to make a difference to want to have an impact. And I think it's way easier actually to have an impact and make a difference nowadays, with online courses. We can in our case, learn sign language, and really make the world a more inclusive place. It's something that you can literally do, you can take action to it, so think that's the takeaway. Of course, we would appreciate if you're doing it with us, but if you learn in some other way that's of course fine as well. It's achieving the mission and that's what we're here for as well. So, it's easier to take and make an impact than you might think so.

25:01 Christopher Michael Lee  

Joanna, Daniel thank you so much for spending time with us. I'm excited to learn more and more about the work that you're doing. I'm really looking forward to seeing where you're going next with Lingvano and we're going to stay in touch. 

25:14 Daniel H. Logar  

Thanks a lot for having us. We really appreciate it. 

25:16 Johanna Steiner  

Yeah, thank you very much. 

25:17 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you.

25:19 Speaker  

The International Association of Accessibility Professionals offers a variety of membership options for individuals and organizations. Whether you are an expert in accessibility or just starting your journey, join the only global Accessibility Professional Association promoting and improving digital accessibility and physical environments. IAAP advocates for the inclusive design and creation of accessible products, content, services and spaces to ensure no one is left behind due to a physical, sensory, cognitive, health or psychological related impairment. United in Accessibility, join IAAP and become a part of the global accessibility movement.