E38: Advancing Disability Inclusion: Insights from Sri Lanka's Pioneers

In this episode of the United in Accessibility podcast Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal and Mahesh Panditha from the Enable Lanka Foundation share insights on the challenges and successes of empowering individuals with disabilities, emphasizing the need for collaboration and innovative solutions to create a more inclusive society in Sri Lanka and global.

Transcript

00:04 Speaker  

Welcome to the United in Accessibility podcast. In this episode, we are honored to welcome two distinguished guests who are leading the charge in disability inclusion and accessibility. First, we have Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal, a renowned development professional specializing in accessible digital and physical infrastructure. As a Co-Founder of the Enable Lanka Foundation, Rukmal is dedicated to empowering people with disabilities and advancing disability inclusion in Sri Lanka. Notably, he is the only Sri Lankan to receive the NVDA expert certification and serves as the G3ict Country Advisor for Sri Lanka. His expertise extends to authoring influential policy publications on disability rights and working with international organizations and UN agencies. Joining him is Mahesh Panditha, an Attorney at Enable Lanka Foundation. Mahesh brings a wealth of legal expertise to the podcast focusing on disability rights and advocacy within Sri Lanka. Tune in as we delve into their invaluable insights and discuss the strides being made towards a more inclusive world on the United in Accessibility podcast.

01:21 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Good morning, everyone. My name is Mohamed Loutfy. I'm the Director of capacity building and advocacy, the Global Initiative for Inclusive Information and Communication Technologies known as G3ict. Welcome to the United in Accessibility podcast, our podcast promoting the work of our partners and country advisors promoting the rights of persons with disabilities to digital inclusion and accessibility. Today I have the pleasure to be hosting two of our excellent partners and friends from Sri Lanka we have Mr. Mahesh Panditha, Attorney at Law and Executive Committee Member of Enable Lanka Foundation and Janitha Rukmal, Co-founder of Enable Lanka Foundation and he is also our Country Advisor in Sri Lanka. Janitha and Mahesh great to have you with us today, could you please introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your journey into the field of promoting the rights of persons with disabilities to digital accessibility and inclusion in Sri Lanka and beyond? Of course, I may ask Janitha to start please.

02:34 Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal  

Thank you, Mohammed and thank you everyone at G3ict for giving us this great opportunity to showcase what we have done through this podcast for the entire world to listen and get to know us. I am Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal, I'm currently 38 years old. And I'm one of the co-founders of Enable Lanka Foundation, as Mohammed rightly pointed out, and why Enable Lanka started and how we got into the digital accessibility space. So, Enable Lanka initially was like a vision of a final year undergraduate way back in 2014. And this, in fact, is the day that or rather year that we celebrate a decade of service and to Sri Lanka, we officially kicked off in 2015. So, we call it pretty close. So during that time, I as an undergraduate realized three key things which sort of were seen as the gaps that facilitated the creation of this organization. One is there are so many organizations of persons with disabilities working in this space of accessibility. But none of them were touching digital accessibility in a serious way in Sri Lanka, I think globally, we're back in 2014, there was not really so much of a trend to talk about assistive technologies in a very open way. So, this also might have been a reason why a country like Sri Lanka didn't even pay attention to these things, which are like empowering technologies, enabling technologies. And the second thing was the OPD space or the Space for Organizations of Persons living with Disabilities was very segmented back in the day. That's to say, the persons living with visual impairments had their own organizations, the deaf community had their own organizations, those who are living with physical disabilities have their own organizations and it was very heavily segmented. And I realized and I thought, why don't we really collaborate or put our heads together collectively? Because what's happening actually is all these segmented organizations have been competing for a limited set of grounds limited set of opportunities. And what it created was divide, but we need to unite, just like we say in this podcast title United in Accessibility. So that's what draws me as the second fact for formation of Enable Lanka. And thirdly, I realize the engagement of young people, those who own the future is very lacking in this space, because the seniority what mattered at that time when you I mean, even still, I think that's the case that senior people are very well respected in the disability space and when they talk about stigmatized topic in the global south, such as disability, it's the voices of the seniors which matter so enable Lanka initially was started as a youth organization and then it went into focusing on disability inclusion, because the majority of those who started this organization, including my very good friend, no one say para crystal read, and such in the Doolan, Xena, so many activists from Sri Lanka, I'm just mentioning their name so that they also will be regarded as a part of what we did. So, this vision was to focus on disability inclusion and accessibility. That's how we became a focused organization on disability inclusion, but right now, we are looking at ourselves as a unique model in the world, where the people living with disabilities have developed themselves in this process. And now giving back to the community to broader community, not only for persons with disabilities, but also for a multitude of marginalized communities, including women, young people, indigenous communities, and all these communities in an umbrella sort of in a broader sense. So that's what our mission is right now. 

02:34 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Thank you, Rukmal. Mahesh, do you want to go ahead?

03:38 Mahesh Panditha  

Thank you very much for inviting us and giving this time for us, Enable Lanka Foundation since its inception, has done a remarkable job towards empowering youth with disabilities and to ensure inclusion of the society at large. We know we have been able to work in various tapestries for an example, we were able to conduct various workshops in various schools and various youth groups with regard to assistive technology actually wanted to make awareness of the society at large. And we were able to give the impression towards people without disabilities, that the people living with disabilities are also able to work with the technology, if they have been provided real space and also, we have been able to work with the election commission of Sri Lanka. And in fact, we were the first convener of this group, which worked for the wellbeing of the elections, and which worked for the interests, ensuring election, right electoral rights of the person who have disabilities as well. And also, when it comes to electoral rights, one of our co-founders, Christian roots, were able to be able to win an award. Actually, they never like a foundation has been able to work for the wellbeing of the people with disabilities and also, we were able to empower youth disability, especially the university students and the graduates as well as school children, by collaborating with some private entities and sharing and disseminating them with the mobile phones and other devices. So, we were able to sort of bridge the gap between society and people with disabilities. And we were able to support society to overcome the barriers, whereby making working technology as a way out. So, we have been able to work very swiftly towards wellbeing of the country, as wellbeing of the Disability community and also, we have been able to pain free the disability that is our main one of our main themes. Nowadays, we have been shifting our focus from disability, while ensuring people with disabilities and their rights, we have been moving towards climate change. And we have been working for sustainable development. And we are actually expanding the horizon of our focus towards greatest heights. Thank

09:11 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Thank you, Mahesh. Thank you rock model. This is excellent. You're presenting an excellent model at an organization or persons with disabilities focusing on youth and having the engagement or the inclusion of youth with disabilities in political participation is a key step for ensuring that they have their voices heard in the decision-making process in the country and I'm really happy to learn about the work you are doing in terms of giving back to the community. This is a very important strategy to promote inclusion because we don't want to talk about inclusion only among ourselves as persons with disabilities, but we want to also introduce it to others as inclusion benefits all. Janitha, you've achieved significant milestones. As the first Sri Lankan with visual disability to pursue software engineering and to attain various certifications in assistive technology on digital accessibility. How have these achievements influenced your journey as an advocate working to promote disability rights and working with Enable Lanka and G3ict particularly? 

10:29 Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal  

Yeah, thank you so much for that question, Mohammed. In a way I think what I have been doing is catalyzing a process that already was meant to go through in a way that I would humbly acknowledge. But talking about me as a person who achieved number of milestones, in our country such as being the one to foray into software engineering, which is considered a very challenging field by persons living with visual impairments in particular. I mean, at the time, I was pursuing this goal, there weren't many who had succeeded in this, but fortunately, with the efforts are made across the board, not only from those who live with disabilities, but also those who support accessibility as advocates. Now, the road has been made open for many people with disabilities to engage in different capacities in this sector. My journey was inspired by the fact that you have this very cliched saying: "necessity is the mother of invention." So back in the day, when I was just a student, one thing that was very challenging for me was being able to afford a screen reader that does not charge this exorbitant fee for its one-time purchase. When I was looking at my higher education, one thing I realized was, there's nobody in the global south, particularly South Asian region, who would go in and come up with their own sort of low-cost solution for this issue. So should it be the case that persons with visual impairments in global south or in South Asian region to say the least, do not have access to computing and the whole gamut of knowledge, technology, and a bunch of innovations which come with until they get to be able to afford a highly prized screen reader. So, this is where my dream to become a software engineer became something that I could, you know, realize, in Sri Lankan education system, as maybe in many other countries do not have space for visually impaired persons in particular, to get into science stream when they go for the higher education. So, this challenge was there for me as well. So, I pursued my degree, with my own private funds in a university in the UK, Westminster university through a local affiliate, which is called informatics Institute for Technology. There, I learned a lot about the kind of general IT realm, we learn about Linux, we'll learn about many other assistive technologies and options available for people, especially the Apple ecosystem. So, all this was given to me like a treasure trove, like a holy grail in this stream. So that's like, unlocking a lot of potential. So that way, while I was pursuing my degree, the team of inventors from Australia and few other countries came about with this NVDA screen reader, which was the just the kind of solution I was looking for is free and open-source software and it gave a lot of people to, you know, the room to innovate using add Ons, and so on. So, we were able to localize the free and open-source speech engine to be able to speak and, you know, provide spoken feedback through Unicode letters to our language, Sinhalese and Tamil, that was a game changer. Then I realized screen readers are not the only assistive technology out there. So that's, that's why I mastered it using the NV Access Certification for Assistive Technology, and I ventured into other assistive technologies, which can help people with other disabilities as well. And we were able to mentor and support many innovators in the country and outside when developing assistive technologies. And that's how I became the go to person in Sri Lanka. It comes to advance as it's your technology.

14:54 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Wonderful, wonderful journey. Thank you very much for sharing this with us Rukmal. I think it's very important to show the world that persons with disabilities are not only users, they should not be perceived only as users but also as contributors to the development of field of technology and digital accessibility and that there is no just one software available, there are many software's that are available and many software's that are being developed to make persons with disabilities have the chance to have access to technology. Thank you very much Rukmal. Mahesh, I want to move to you and ask you, if you could please share with us the mission and key achievements of the Enable Lanka Foundation, and how they have been advancing digital inclusion of persons with disabled in the country. 

15:52 Mahesh Panditha  

Yeah, when it comes to the accused, we have conducted, we were able to achieve a lot. As Generator Rukmal correctly stated, we are stepping towards the 10th anniversary of our organization. Whereas we were able to achieve a lot because of the interventions and because of the promotional things which we have conducted, we were able to sort of convinced the university system in the country to enable students to use computers for their examinations. Actually Janitha Rukmal, while was the first person to start it in the university of Sri Jayewardenepura that he studied for his bachelor's degree in arts. And also, I was the first person to study at the Faculty of Law at the University of Colombo. Until many students are using it and also, we were to earn a lot and learn a lot with regard to the things. Nowadays, we were able to sort of advocate for the rights of the person with disabilities in terms of digital inclusion, whereby the university system has itself understood the potential of the students and now they have been conducting various trading programs by providing the training using various equipment such as Braille displays, screen readers, and braille embossers and those kinds of technologies. As Janitha said, at the time, we started our studies, having a computer was a dream, having a screen reader software was one of the heavenly experiences for most of the visually impaired people in the community. And also the situation was the same for the other disabilities as well. But nowadays, due to the apps due to the technology, which has been breaking ground, we were able to make a breakthrough. Therefore, now the university system has understood that potential and also various employees because we were able to conduct various programs with many employees, one of the leading companies in Sri Lanka, one of the leading tech companies, one of the leading conglomerates of Sri Lanka, and international brands such as Mars, Style Oak, and various of the other companies, we were able to work with some startup entities as well and we were able to give internship opportunities for persons with disabilities and let them work with the society it as well as the corporate world. And also the corporate sector was able to have a large vast set of experiences to actually enable a foundation, we were able to conduct various training programs and be able to sort of work with the Slasco. And we were able to check the accessibility of that and we were able to work with the banking sector, some of our members personally check the accessibility of the banking apps and websites and we have been advocating with the Central Bank of Sri Lanka, where we were able to sort of advocate with them to protect the rights and provide the banking rights for the visually impaired and persons with disabilities at large. In fact, we were able to do another initiative and we were able to sort of do a groundbreaking initiative as well, because with the support of some pro bono, legal personal identities, legal counsels, we were able to find some RTIs as well as we were able to file a fundamental rights petition against the government printer aware by asking the Supreme Court of the country, which is the highest court of the land, to give an order to the government to publish accessible documents, which has been one of the key concerns of the visually impaired community at large. Therefore, we wanted to highlight that fact we wanted to ensure those kinds of issues and also, we have been working with the Human Rights Commission in the country, as well as we have been working with the election commission whereby, we are constantly advocating for the accessibility of the documents, and we have been working with some local languages, groups and many Unicode Consortium's. So, these are the initiatives that we have been able to achieve. And we believe that these kinds of achievements would long last as well as be very important for the wellbeing of people with disabilities. Our Co-founder, Mr. Janitha Rukmal was able to introduce a new innovations and new technologies to the country, such as devices such as envision glasses and those kinds of new technologies was also introduced to Sri Lanka. And also, they were able to localize it and he was one of the first to obtain a license from NVDA. These are the tumors that we have taken as a as an organization and that is one of the slices of many things which we have conducted energy have achieved with regard to achieving the rights of people with disabilities.

20:30 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Excellent, excellent. Mahesh, thank you very much, many congratulations on the excellent initiatives you've shared with us and I can feel how Enabled Lanka has established itself as a model for others in promoting digital inclusion of persons with disabilities not only in the level of services or training, but also on the level of transforming the mindset of decision makers and with regard to ensuring that policies are in place for ensuring the rights of persons with disabilities to digital inclusion. Thank you very much, Janitha, let me come back to you as a Country Advisor for G3ict in Sri Lanka, could you tell us about your efforts in advancing accessible technologies and environments in the country and how this aligns with G3icts global objectives? Yeah,

21:26 Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal  

Yeah, that's indeed, one of the key reasons why I joined, and I applied to join the G3ict as country advisor, because in Sri Lanka, talking beyond charity on disability inclusion has been an arduous task. So, when we introduced these accessible technologies, infrastructure, the procurement processes, it's indeed a game changer on one hand, but a great challenge on the other, because the policymakers in this country are reluctant to look at persons with disabilities beyond the assertion that they still are beneficiaries of charity, and hence, could not afford technologies, or other facilities like in other countries. So, in countries like ours, what mostly happens is appreciating the value of including these technologies and talking about the best practices from other countries. Whereas what we really need to do is to inculcate some of those best practices facilities, which we can afford as a country. So that's how I positioned myself to engage in this sphere. So, one main initiative I took this regard is to reach out to one of the presidential advisors of the current president. And since I was working with the presidential secretariat a few years back, before COVID, in particular, I was able to showcase that people living with disabilities are not the objects of charity, but they have their own skills. So, then the policymakers realized, okay, we can make use of this community. So that's why I actually I approached one of the advisors to the President, and now they are ready to advance the disability inclusion and accessible technologies with the leverage of AI. That's where Sri Lanka has promised great investment towards AI and through various models and framework introduced by G3ict, such as the maturity model on accessibility, and also the new toolkit that will be introduced for policy refinement or the policies of accessibility, how we can create them in the country. So, these toolkits are going to be very instrumental. And previously, they had the playbook for smart cities, which is I think, currently being updated. And along with all those, we were able to convince the government that this is possible, and this has been the initial stride I have made and currently as colleague Mahesh mentioned, we are introducing these game changing devices to the country such as the Envision glasses and trying to repurpose the newly introduced Meta class, which is relatively more affordable, and how we can maximize its AI capacity to be able to use for the benefit of people with all kinds of disabilities, because not only the visually impaired benefited from this setup. For example, service integrations can provide jobs for those who are living with physical disabilities who really can't really actively mobilize themselves in other spaces, who can practically move from A to B without major assistance. So those communities also get to meaningfully employ in these sectors and Sri Lanka you may already know that is a great destination for tourism. And accessible tourism is one area that we are exploring and as a result, the UNDP in Sri Lanka tasked us the Enable Lanka Foundation, to exercise the audits of destinations and digital infrastructure of several key tourist destinations in the country and as the country advisor for G3ict, I brought in the expertise on making places digitally accessible for the communities and the people who physically find it difficult to access them effectively. So these kinds of initiatives have been very useful and the knowledge and expertise I gained through G3icts resources and with the access to IAAP International Association of Accessibility Professionals has been very useful for us in this endeavor, not only with the resources inside the organizations, but also with the network that it provides us with different accessibility experts around the world who can guide us and support us throughout this initiative. The IAAP is committed to deepening the recognition of professionals who have acquired the knowledge and skills to apply universal design principles to environments in which we live, work and play. The Certified Professional in Accessible Built Environments (CPABE) credential identifies successful applicants as associate, advanced or expert level Accessible Built Environment Professionals. Head to the IAAP web page to learn about the CPABE Task Force and expert panel and how to apply for this credential.

27:03 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Thank you, Janitha, for the excellent answer and we are so proud to have you as one of our country advisors for G3ict as a Country Advisor in Sri Lanka. And you know, we are we are happy about the way you are using tools and programs through G3ict offers to promote digital inclusion not only from a traditional sense, like training or services, but also with regard to the new areas that is now that are now booming and starting to dominate the scene of technology, which is artificial intelligence and also engaging private sector through employment, human resources and other services or sectors when we've included with digital inclusion. So thank you very much for the great work you're doing. Mahesh as an Attorney, how do you view the intersection of law and accessibility in Sri Lanka? And what are the legal reforms, you think that are much needed nowadays in the country?

28:14 Mahesh Panditha  

When it comes to the intersectionality between the law and accessibility, we have to pay attention to a set in a very important manner, because I see as a lawyer that accessibility and law demands a significant attention, because all the citizens including persons with and without disabilities, need accessibility because of universal design, which is one of the key aspects, which has been enshrined in the UNCRPD, which is the United Nations Convention on the rights of the person with disabilities also ensures that accessibility as well as Universal Design, one of the key elements of its general principle, so accessibility, in a sense, is fundamental rights, which demands our attention even in the constitution of Sri Lanka, which is the main important and basic law of the land, even before the convention. The Constitution allows the government to provide necessary opportunities for persons with disabilities, children and women and the position has stated by providing special facilities, I mean, giving the opportunities and enabling the disabled persons as well as women and children is not a violation of rights equality. Therefore, even the constitution has also accepted that fact and in 1996, Sri Lanka as a country was able to enact the Disability Rights Act, which is one of the key legislations in the country. Soon after we were able to become one of the first countries in South Asia which ratified the Convention, the UNCRPD. So, in a sense, Sri Lanka has in fact, done a great deal of this substantial legal reforms towards accessibility. But when it comes to the implementation of the accessibility and assistive technologies, Sri Lanka is far behind, compared to some of the counterparts of South Asia and in the world, because there are many that can be authorities because in Sri Lankan in the act, in 1996, the Act allows persons with disabilities to seek the jurisdictions from the High Courts of their provinces, any citizen, all the citizens in the country have not been provided that opportunity, even if they are fundamental rights are being infringed. They have to go to the Supreme Court. itis the only court which would entertain the jurist’s diction of hearing two fundamental rights, but in case of persons with disabilities, they have been given the opportunity of filing human rights cases in the high courts. So, we can see the extent to which the Sri Lankan legislature and Sri Lankan policymakers have a code and have thought of the person with disabilities. So, these can be considered as legal suits, to which the Sri Lankan context has been entertaining and given. But when it comes to the implementation of the policies, we can see that there were many issues in terms of the bureaucracy. We know that the entire facets of disability have been considered and marginalized the ministry of social empowerment or social services or whatever. As Janitha has correctly stated, although the Sri Lankan law entertains and address the social model, and it is trying to provide rights-based approach for the wellbeing with the person with disabilities, still, the implementation is trying to backlash the whole enactments and laws because it always tries to consider the matter of the person with disabilities as a charity. And they have been considered as subject and part and parcel of the Ministry of Social Services, The National Council for the person with disabilities has been established, but still, it doesn't have power. Although it has been given enormous power by the from the act, the governing body, the disability Secretary the chariot, which is in fact, the implement vary arm of the Council is trying to manipulate the council and trying to work on their own. So, the specialists, the government officials, who are trying to work with people with disabilities are trying to dominate the sector. So, the entire sector of disability has been dominated by some of the so-called DPO's and some of the government officers. So therefore, we speak about intersectionality when it comes to the law, Sri Lanka yes we have perfect law, we have perfect legislations, but still some of the government officials and some of the DPO's in fact, unfortunately, are trying to sabotage and upset the applecart because sometimes that disable commit the disabled community especially the members of the members of the National Council for the person with disabilities, which has been enacted and established from the from the act from the national legislation, the members have to work independently, but still, it is a minister who can nominate the members and it is a president, the head of state is a person who can appoint the members but still they have been engaged even the even the disability organizations Join Trans which is one of the visuals considered as the umbrella organization has been had had openly supported the presidential candidate in 2019. And these kinds of politicization and also the domination of the government officials and bureaucrats has been a significant challenge stumbling blocks which hampered the situation. So, we therefore we expect that the accessibility should be provided and to provide accessibility, the current existing laws should be implemented to the fullest to the best of its knowledge because even the Supreme Court cases in 2006 and 2019 has given has reiterated the fact that the person with disabilities and the disability concept with disability should be harmonized with accessibility. So, physical accessibility should be provided in the act, the digital and physical accessibility has been already provided. But still, as I said, some of the so called GPO's and some of the government bureaucrat are trying to upset the applecart therefore, the entire disability movement of Sri Lanka should be rescued from the so called government officials who have disability is a charity model and charity aspect as well as some of the DPO’s who has also been to nominated by some of the political authorities and some of the bureaucrats unfortunately, so we believe that the legal reforms rather than doing much legal reforms, it's high time for persons with disabilities themselves get together and even the political authorities should also consider to depoliticize this aspect and consider the concept of disabilities as a holistic matter rather than extended and rather than actually discriminating the matter and cornering it to the Ministry of Social Welfare. So, that is the most important fact, which I see and because we know that Sri Lanka has an aging population, and it has a social aspect as well, because if we can ensure physical accessibility, if we can ensure digital accessibility, we know that in 2040 and 2050, most of the people in the country would be an aging population. So, therefore, with the aging, you will know that person's abilities, I mean, some of the physical abilities, some of the physical impairments can be there, some of the abilities might be reduced, therefore, they also need the facilities, which are required by the person with disabilities themselves. Therefore, if we can ensure the accessibility if you can ensure the universal design of the buildings of the digital platforms, and even the transactions and the government entities, that would be ideal, because if you can do so, it would be an investment otherwise, the large portion of the labor force of the country in future would how to invest them, their potential and how to waste the energy by providing the necessities for the aging population. Therefore, if we can, if we want to make them independent, and if we still want to make them a part of our workforce, this will be inevitable in the future, we have to make the entire structures and the entire country a universal design, as well as accessibility friendly one. So, to do that, I mean, the entire population, the policymakers should believe that matter and consider it has a holistic view and futuristic investment, rather than considering it as a welfare and kind of charity model. So therefore, I believe, I would like to reiterate that fact, the entire disability discourse of the country should be rescued from some of the so-called GPO’s, as well as the government bureaucrats. Thank you.

37:25 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Thank you. Thank you, Mahesh, you have touched upon on very important and critical issue of liking implementation of legislation, countries tend to comply with the CRPD, but when it comes to implementation, we start facing the biggest problem, especially if the medical model is still dominant and we still need to promote a social model of disability inclusion, which is the case of many countries in the global south, particularly unfortunate. Janitha, let me ask you, as a consultant to international organizations like the United Nations, what are some of the key insights you have gained about some of the major global approaches to disability inclusion?

38:10 Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal  

So as a consultant to many international organizations, including the United Nations, my key learning on accessibility and how they look at accessibility and disability inclusion have been the fact that accessibility is regarded as an add on to the main package by many of these organizations, for example, they would conceptualize and design projects, and then they will see how disability inclusion or accessibility can be integrated to our project. What ideally should happen is at the design phase of the project itself, they need to consult the communities and experts so that not only the communities would give the very sort of segmented issues, but experts who, with lived experience on disability and the needs of accessibility can synthesize those issues, and provide a broader perspective that will be future proof and more nimble for these international organizations to operate with. So that way, we can ensure that many of these organizations can stick to their disability inclusion agenda or strategy without compromising anything. So earlier there was this very famous slogan in the disability community: "Nothing about us. Without us!" Then it rolled to say: "Nothing about us, without all of us!" Then what changed was that not only the persons with disabilities, but also the advocates, allies, supporters, and responsible organizations should be there. But now the slogan has changed, even for the better by saying: "Nothing without us!" That means the persons with disabilities are no longer in a model where they are seen as objects of charity, or medical interventions, or social inclusion, but they are holders of rights. So, when you talk about banking, as my colleague, Mahesh pointed out, there are so many issues that people with disabilities face, because they are not only the beneficiaries of charity, but they are themselves entrepreneurs, sometimes. They are themselves lucrative employees or consultants like me, who earn from the system and who give back to the system in a financially valid manner. So, they are rights holders. And on the other hand, when a disaster happens, nature does not make any exceptions. I mean, nature follows the policy of equality to the latter. So, what it does affects everyone. So, we can't keep persons with disabilities as a different segment when we prepare for disasters, when we reduce the risks, risks of disasters, like that there are so many avenues that have remained unexplored, but which need disability inclusion and accessibility integrated right into them. Because for example, computing was started with accessibility in mind. There were so many brilliant coders and programmers, while Microsoft was engaging with DOS and Linux was a command line user interface. But now, with all the user interfaces, which are dominated through mouse clicks, taps and touches, there are communities who are marginalized, and now since some had to be built to reintegrate them to this sector. So likewise, we should not think of accessibility as an add on to the main package, but as a part of the main package. And that's what I have to reiterate and convey to these international organizations when they design projects, keep accessibility as part and parcel of it, and not as an add on.

42:22 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Thank you, we're going to raise one important thing, which is how to engage persons with disabilities in dialogue with international organizations so we can make a better influence on policymaking. So, I like your emphasis on this slogan of "Nothing without us" as real inclusion means that we are part of everything, not only things that are related to disability or persons with disabilities. Thank you very much. Mahesh. I would like to ask you, how does Enable Lanka Foundation to collaborate with government, industry and other sectors of mainly education to foster a more inclusive environment for persons with disabilities within the country, whether on the digital or the physical environment level?

43:13 Mahesh Panditha  

Well, answering a question, as a foundation, which has gained ground for the last 10 years, we were able to work with various entities. When it comes to the private sector, we were able to conduct various incentives citation program. And we were able to conduct various internship programs and induction programs to two organizations, whereby we were able to convince the idea of the conglomerates and brands that working with persons with disabilities is not a magic, because in countries like Sri Lanka, the sensitization is very low. Therefore, we had to conduct various interesting programs physically as well as online. And we were able to convince the employees that working with people with disabilities and contributing them to their workforce is not a barrier. And we were able to sort of consider them, as well as we were able to do some inductions. And we were able to work with the Microsoft integral program and provide various employment opportunities for persons with disabilities by closely working with the private sector and also, we were able to work with the government sector as well. In fact, we have been closely working with the election commission, whereby we were able to advise them in various capacities, as a result of which the sign language and tactile ballot papers had been introduced by the election commission in the next forthcoming presidential election. So, this can be considered as one of the most important achievements that we have been able to, and still we have been constantly monitoring and advocating for the rights of persons with disabilities. And still, we have been advising those institutions with regard to the implementation of these programs. With regard to the COVID 19 pandemic, we have seen, the police force has been misunderstood the person with disabilities in various manners. Sometimes we have heard the incidents where people and especially the youth with disabilities have been drastically beaten and had to face police brutality because of the invisible disabilities that they had processed. So, police misinterpreted him and especially the psychosocial person who psychosocial disabilities had to face various challenges various kinds of challenges. Therefore, we were able to collaborate with the National Child Protection Authority. At that time, the chairman was professor, who collaborated with us as an advisory capacity in Enable Lanka Foundation worked with that organization and we were able to make a booklet and we were able to distribute that booklet on how to introduce and how to identify and recognize persons, especially the children with invisible disabilities and we were able to share that booklet, to the police personal and the judges and various law enforcement authorities, we were able to work with some serious injuries as well, because in the last two years, I've been able to work with various organizations which have been working in the local capacities such as Trincomalee, Jaffna, and various places they have been conducting various programs for the betterment of people with disabilities. So as an organization, we supported them, we mentored them. And also, we supported some local entrepreneurs and local SMEs, which have been conducted by people with disabilities. In fact, we were able to support them by giving them opportunities in the exhibitions to display and exhibit their products as well as we were able to support them by providing the markets and we were able to work with various brands such as BrandX, Mars and various entities and we were able to make them make the disabled entrepreneurs as subcontractors and then provide them infrastructures to start their businesses. So, these are the types of work that we have conducted, and various people with disabilities have been able to get support from these initiatives and still we have been working with the various issues because as I mentioned previously, the subject of disability was considered as a as a matter of social welfare ministry and Ministry of Social Welfare and Department of Social Services, because of the intervention we had been, with the election commission and the Parliament of Sri Lanka, we had been able to reach out to the various institutions such as IFace NDI, RIIN, various types of organizations, and they also worked with us. So, we were able to work with international NGOs, as well and support it with their projects to support people with disabilities and work with the local and national government departments. So these are the ones which have been, we conducted because we have understood that nothing about us, without all of us is a theme that we always inculcate, and always be retrained because of that fact, we believe, we don't believe that, as an organization, we can work standalone, and we can do all the things individually, we cannot believe that we can, we can never trust that philosophy, our philosophy is working collaboratively and get results because collective work with the common partners, international NGOs, local NGOs, as well as SMEs, the DPO's as well, so we can work with those institutions and collaborate. And also, we have been able to convince the political participation as well, because we have been able to work to reach out to the political entities. But still, we have to admit the fact that we haven't campaigned, and we didn't become a part of the campaigns of the political leaders. We have been closely working with the government and opposition political leaders. And we were able to lobby them in terms of education because you know, that the currently the government is trying to sort of push the pill, a new bill on price of the person with disabilities whereby they try to make an enabling legislation to integrate the UNCRPD to the national ecosystem. We are we have been working with various political parties and we have been working with cross party, political leaders and we were able to make some allies on our own in various parties and we were able to convince them the ideas and we have been working with the Attorney General's department and we have been working with the government as well as certain elements. So, this is the way in which we have been working because we believe that as an organization, we have a part to play because society is proven and fabricated. We cannot work without the support of one another. The barter system in the during the inception of the barter system, mankind has to work and depend upon each other. So having understood that philosophy Enable Lanka Foundation is collaborating with various entities and working. So, we believe that is the secret of our organization. And that is the part that we should play as an organization in future as well. 

50:10 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Thank you. Thank you, Mahesh. Well, we are coming closer to the end of this, but I have a couple of questions I would like to ask you, Janitha and Mahesh, what are your hopes and visions for the future of disability inclusion, both in Sri Lanka and on the global level? Mahesh, if I can please start with you?

50:40 Mahesh Panditha  

Well, actually, when it comes to the inclusion and accessibility, my vision for future and the vision of the Enable Lanka foundation is also mainstreaming is the key, because we have to make as Janitha correctly stated, we entire global leaders, entire global organizations, and the countries should consider the concept of accessibility as a part and parcel of the package rather than considering it as an add on. And also, accessibility and inclusion should not be a privilege. It is a right of the people not only persons with disabilities, but also the persons without disabilities who might need the systems and support. Therefore, universal design should be the default, accessibility and universal design should be the default of the world, rather than considering it as an accessory or additional of task. So that is the most important fact that we consider in Sri Lanka, we believe that certain legislations might come to play, but still an attitudinal change must be the best option that we could sustain because to make accessibility, the concept of inclusion sustainable, rather than ticking the box, and rather than considering one size fits all, we have to consider the disability and accessibility as inherent concepts. Therefore, I believe, as well as Enable Lanka Foundation to believe that the concept of inclusion disability accessibility and Universal Design should not be strange words in coming years. If somebody is doing a podcast on this net in this nature after two to three decades, the concept of accessibility, universal design and concept of inclusion should be very normal, and it should not be pacified. So, I think if we can make it a universal issue, embedded in society, that clearly would be the ideal goal that we are trying to achieve. Thank you very much. And thank you very much for having us in this podcast.

52:38 Mohammed Ali Loutfy  

Thank you. Thank you, Mahesh, Rukmal? Yes, Mohammed, while sharing my colleague's vision, in a very heartwarming manner, to see the disability, or the accessibility the elements of accessibility as quote, unquote, "normal things" in our lives. I also envision a future where new technologies like for example, cerebral implants or brain implants, could really break the barriers that some of these medical models had, when it comes to resolving the issues of accessibility. They could be realistic and that's what I'm expecting from the global level, because no matter how much we say that accessibility and disability, inclusion is the right and we need to have equal access, equitable access to resources to our surrounding everything. The gap remains where persons with disabilities still will find alternative ways to access some of the things with this kind of future proof solutions, we can expect that persons with disabilities will not only have to rely on equity, but also, they will enjoy the quality of everything. While looking at that global goal. I want to reflect on what I envision for Sri Lanka. So, we need to look at disability beyond the challenge level. That is still a challenge we have and to do that, I propose that not only the legislation, but also the implementation should happen in an effective way. So, one common misconception or an issue that prevails in all the activists’ spaces is the competition to dominate, the competition to be on the top of the decision-making line. So, I think in future there should not be any competition on this, because there is a diverse set of expertise, a pool of expertise that each of us as advocates activists can bring into this table. So, we need to be able to realize that potential, the sort of uniqueness of each other and that way if we create more collaborative environments, which foster allies, which foster engagement in a more holistic way, Sri Lanka will have a sustainably rich future when it comes to accessibility and disability inclusion. Otherwise, the divisions and conflicting ideologies will take us nowhere. So that is something I envision for Sri Lanka. Well, thank you. Thank you, Mahesh. Thank you, Janitha. That was excellent, very enriching and very insightful input from your end. And we again congratulate you to Enable Lanka Foundation, and as excellent partners of G3ict, for the great work you are doing and promoting digital inclusion of persons with disabilities. And we look forward to staying in touch with you and having you in many, many other podcasts in the future. Thank you very much for your time and we look forward to staying in touch. Thank you.

56:30 Thalagodage Janitha Rukmal  

Thank you, Mohammed and thank you everyone at G3ict, looking forward to engaging with you in future.

56:38 Speaker  

The International Association of Accessibility Professionals membership consists of individuals and organizations representing various industries including the private sector, government, nonprofits and educational institutions. Membership benefits include products and services that support global systemic change around the digital and built environment. United in Accessibility, join IAAP and become a part of the global accessibility movement.