E39: Accessible Systems: John Paul Cruz’s Journey in Disability Policy and Reform

In this episode of the United in Accessibility podcast, John Paul Cruz, G3ict Country Advisor for the Philippines, shares his transformative journey from losing his sight to shaping disability policy across Southeast Asia. Dive into his insights on improving accessibility, navigating diverse regional challenges, and the impact of his work on the ASEAN Disability Action Plan.

Transcript

00:04 Speaker  

Welcome to another episode of The United in Accessibility podcast. Today we're honored to have John Paul Cruz, G3ict Country Representative for the Philippines, joining us. John has spent over a decade working at the intersection of disability policy, government, collaboration and accessibility. His efforts have transformed public services, resources and spaces for people with disabilities and older persons in the Philippines and across Southeast Asia as a key contributor to the ASEAN Disability Action Plan. John's work has been instrumental in mainstreaming disability rights throughout the region. We're excited to dive into his journey and explore his insights on creating a more inclusive world on the United in Accessibility podcast.

00:54 Christopher Michael Lee  

John Paul, it's great to have you here tonight or this morning. You're in Melbourne right now. Tell us a little bit about you and your journey regarding accessibility.

01:05 Jean Paul Cruz  

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening to all your listeners. Before I answer that question, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the unceded land on which I'm doing this podcast. There were Indigenous people. I'd also like to respect their elders, past, present and future. My journey in the disability policy field started more than 15 years ago. When one day I woke up without any sense of sight. Overnight, I had to learn how to turn on a computer without any assistance from any sighted person. It was also then that I had to learn different assistive technologies that a visually impaired person would need, for example, a screen reader. Back then, I tested different types of screen readers for Windows. In a sense, losing my sense of sight opens my eyes to the disability policy field. In 2010 while I was looking for opportunities to expand my knowledge on disability policy, I stumbled upon a master's program called international and comparative disability policy run by the Institute on Disability in Public Policy at American University in Washington, DC. And it was through this master's program that I started to engage with global experts on disability policy. 

02:34 Christopher Michael Lee  

It sounds like you had quite a journey so far, just in the challenge of losing your site, which I like to drill down a little bit more in and then you know, being brave enough to jump into a master's degree, which is not easy, especially in these times when a lot of content isn't accessible for people with disabilities and does not interact well with screen reading software, specifically different types of AT. Can you tell us just a little bit more about your journey in losing some of your sight and how that's impacted you, not only from an academic standpoint, but also from a social standpoint and a work standpoint.

03:21 Jean Paul Cruz  

Right. So having the experience of blindness somehow gave me a better perspective about disability, also a better perspective about visual impairment, low vision and what are the different needs. Prior to having that experience, I realized that many of the things that we're doing because I've worked with development field as well, where I focus on election in the Philippines, and most of the reports and the work that we've done then did not really focus on, or have any idea about disability, and often it's discussed in the margins, and having the experience of blindness somehow gave me that inspiration to go beyond what's happening in the development field and see what else has not been tackled. So that was back in the mid-2000s when I experienced that. And from there, I've seen the development of policy and also the technology, development of technology using screen readers. I think back then, I had to buy different software just for me to use a screen reader. And that made me realize that it's not easy and so expensive just to get that assistive technology that you actually need on a daily basis, which is very different from today. Today, many of your mainstream technologies, like laptops, tablets, smartphones, have built in assistive. technologies, which is quite a big contrast. So, I think that has so the experience of having a disability at some point in my life also made me more aware of what's happening in the accessibility space and what's also happening around the world about disability and assistive technologies. 

05:22 Christopher Michael Lee  

So, may I ask, if I can be so bold, what screen reading software do you use? Is it mainstream software? Is it jaws? Is it NVDA?

05:32 Jean Paul Cruz  

It will depend on how you define mainstream. So, I'm using a Mac. I'm using the voiceover, and I know that it's very costly having just within the Mac OS and the Apple ecosystem, it's quite costly compared to probably average individuals. Usually I started, people would go to windows, and they would use NVDA and jaws. I started with NVDA when I used to use Windows. But this is the difference between Windows and Mac. Windows I had so same with my experience early, 2000s mid, 2000s when I was trying to find the right screen reader for me, I had to buy different software if I have to use, for example, an Android phone. My phone has to work well with my computer, and it's different with Windows. You have to have a Windows laptop, and then you have to have another one, an Android phone, which not necessarily would have the same software for assistive technologies that would work in both devices. So, with Mac, it's different, completely different. You have a voiceover that works on a Mac OS environment, and you have a voiceover working on an iPhone an iOS environment, which is for me, very useful when I don't need to reorient myself every time, I go from one application to another, from my laptop to my phone or to my tablet. So yes, I'm still using MacOS, but I'm also aware that for many people, NVDA, if you're using Windows, NVDA would be more cost effective because it's open source. 

07:16 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you for that. So, you talked a little bit, just a few minutes ago, about some of the work that you're doing in the electoral system. You know, in the system of trying to get people elected, trying to get people, I'm assuming, people with disabilities, to actually vote. Can you give us just a little bit more information about some of the challenges that you face in regard to implementing an accessible electoral system in Southeast Asia?

07:43 Jean Paul Cruz  

For listeners who don't know, ASEAN stands for the Association of Southeast Asian nations. ASEAN is composed of 10 countries, including Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, and more recently, Timor Leste is starting its process of being included in the ASEAN region. By looking at the list of countries we could already have a sense of how ASEANS background is in terms of political, economic, social and cultural and that, for me, is one of the most significant challenges in terms of implementing accessible election in the region. For example, in some of these countries, people with cognitive disability would be prohibited from exercising their right to vote. Finally, another possible challenge is creating a strategy that works for all ASEAN countries. For example, the communication strategy that you would employ in Indonesia will not be the same with the communication strategy to increase awareness on accessibility and disability in the Philippines or Myanmar or Singapore, because all these countries would have different types of communication channels. For example, in Indonesia, often they would use WhatsApp. Or people in Thailand, for example, they would most likely be using Line. In the Philippines, it might be Facebook Messenger. These are just some of the factors that influence how we implement the accessible electoral systems in ASEAN.

10:04 Christopher Michael Lee  

So, the research that you've done is wrapped around some of the topics that you just talked about, the accessibility of platforms, how to communicate in different regions. Can you talk a little bit more about the findings of that research? 

10:20 Jean Paul Cruz  

Oh yes, thank you for asking. When I did my research on accessible election in the Philippines, some of the things that came out were number one, we have a lot of policies in place. And that's, I think, the good point about the Philippines. These policies are very important, because it's somehow those are your anchor whenever you're trying to promote accessible practices or accessible processes. But the problem is the funding. Often the policies are not supported by the funding, and sometimes the support that you get from your executives may vary depending on the time, because in the Philippines, you would have different government regimes every six years. In the middle of it, every three years, you would have probably some changes as well in the government, the executive support for accessible election will change over time, and what I probably would have promoted this year would be different if I move forward to three years from now or six years from now. There needs to be constant communication and constant increasing of awareness about disability, telling people why it's important for voting processes to be accessible to different types of disabilities, and why it matters to you and to the country and also to the people around them. 

11:53 Christopher Michael Lee  

So, in this research that you've been doing, are you looking at more of a longitudinal aspect of it over several years. Or what's the framework of the research that has been done, the population that you're working with, is it individuals with disabilities, all disabilities, just kind of give us a little bit of a breakdown of that.

12:16 Jean Paul Cruz  

Right when I started doing this research back in the early 2010s, I initially focused on different types of disabilities, and that's because I looked at the different I look at a policy level. In looking at the policy level, I'd have to consider that the impact of part one policy would have to have need to look at different types of disabilities, not just people with cognitive disability, not just people with sensory disability or mobility disability. The framework that I've used to analyze the policies, electoral policies, is what I called, in one in my research, the disability convention framework. I call it for short, DisCo framework. The DisCo framework was developed by another disability advocate, Victor Pineda. His framework looks at several pillars. Number one, does a government or a country or an institution have policy or legal mechanism in place that helps them or guides them how to make election accessible? Number two, does the government or these organizations have the support from their executives, and do they also have support in terms of budget in order for them to implement the policies? Three, does your government or organization have the capacity to administer and coordinate all the different efforts that you have in terms of promoting accessible election. And finally, the last two would focus mainly on people with disabilities. The fourth would be, how are you engaging organizations of people with disabilities in the process of promoting accessible election. And finally, what is the attitude of the society, what is the understanding of your country, your nation, your government, or the people within the organization about disability, about people with disabilities, and do they have the right to vote? All these elements work together in order for me to have an assessment of a country, and I've also used this, I've expanded my research from the Philippines and then made a comparative analysis with the US back in 2014, I got a Fulbright Fellowship, and I did a fellowship. I did my research at the University of California, Berkeley, the School of Law. And the focus that I had back then was, how does the Philippines or the ASEAN nation, compare with the US. One of the things that came out in that research was that ASEAN, compared to the US, is less developed in terms of promoting accessible election. If I look at California as a state, I've actually compared California as to a country in ASEAN and similar to the US, ASEAN countries have different ways of funding, different ways of promoting, different ways of implementing policies on election and that somehow is a good thing and a bad thing. It's a bad thing because you would have to have a strategy for every ASEAN country, differently, and that is a lot of effort. There's also a good thing, in a way, because in terms of security and privacy, probably it's helpful, because the possible attack of rigging the election would be minimized at some point, similar to the US, I know that for every state, they would have different policies. Somehow, they would have different ways of implementing election. And you also have, in some states, probably the voting by mail option for voters. So those kinds of things are the steps that are not yet available in many ASEAN countries. We have the process of voting from abroad, in our embassies, but not the voting by mail. And it's, it's interesting that when I did my research on that about 10 years ago, it was a problem. It was a possibility, but until now, we haven't. We haven't gone to that point. Until now, we're still in in many ASEAN countries. We're still negotiating with governments, if we can have that option instead, the government would often say, oh, why don't we just put the polling place on the first floor of schools, so that it will be accessible. And for them, that's already accessible. I know that in in some ASEAN countries like Vietnam, they already have that process. Somehow you can vote, even in hospitals or institutions if you need to. But you just have to inform your government. So, there are some progress, bits and pieces of progress in other parts of ASEAN country, and this framework, the DisCo framework, is very helpful in understanding all these, all these intricacies in terms of promoting accessible election for people with disabilities. 

17:59 Speaker  

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18:46 Christopher Michael Lee  

Now, thank you for that John Paul. So, you know what you described a moment ago, the different pillows. You know that Victor, who I have a lot of admiration for, by the way, this framework, in a sense, it's somewhat of a model, like a maturity model, in the sense, right? It looks at, you know, those, those, those facets that you described a second ago. So, my one question before we jump into the next one is, that data that you're collecting is from groups of individuals with disabilities, right? Or is, are you collecting data from the actual government where you're going across, ASEAN regions, and you're saying, hey, let's look at their policies and so on. So where are you grabbing the data from? 

19:40 Jean Paul Cruz  

Often, I get it from government records, I also engage with organizations of people with disabilities, but not interviews. Usually, it's more informal in terms of engaging with people with disabilities, I usually engage with more formal channels like the government and then organizations promoting accessible election in different parts of ASEAN. 

19:59 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you for that you know on another call, another time, I'd love to sit down with you on some of the work that G3ict has done around our Dale index, which is somewhat of a report called, as you may or may not know of what we're doing with countries looking at digital accessibility, kind of tied to the CRPD. There's a balance there, because I think some of the work that you have done, particularly in the area that you have, could benefit from some of the data that we'll pull together and summarize. So, you know, moving on, you know, just, you know, one of the things I wanted to just ask you about was your experience about being a G3ict country advisor, and particularly, you know how that's impacted you and the work that you're doing?

20:48 Jean Paul Cruz  

Yes, as a country advisor for G3ict smart cities, for all programs, it has helped me in many ways, in terms of, Number one, having engagement with different experts on accessibility, both digital and built environment. Number two, there's always a need for updating information and knowledge about accessibility. And the newsletters that I received from IAAP, International Association of Accessibility Professionals, and the forum, which is very active. People are always engaging with each other, and that provides a lot of insights for me, and it helps me update myself on what's happening around the world, what's happening in different areas of accessibility, and also the office hours, I think that the engagement with country advisors is also very helpful when you are able to seek guidance in some areas of policy that you are thinking about or promoting within a country. I remember back in 2021 or 22, the Philippine government was developing a policy on inclusive education, and I remember reaching out to some country advisors, asking for their insights on what they have done in their country. And that helped me guide my government as well. I work with the Philippine Senate Committee that's working on that bill at that time, and it helped me give them the guidance on how to frame the policy. And luckily, even months after that, the bill was adopted, and now it's a law, and it's being implemented in the Philippines.

22:45 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you for that. So just kind of getting into kind of some of your academic background, you know, I'm curious to, you know, learn a little bit more about your experience and how Melbourne University has contributed to that, particularly, you know, around your professional development and the work that you've done with different maturity models, which is, obviously you've done some work with you through G3ict. 

23:09 Jean Paul Cruz  

I think it'll be too early to say at this moment, particularly because I'm only in my first year doing my PhD at the University of Melbourne. However, my professional work and experience in doing maturity model with G3ict in the past have helped me understand the different accessibility issues around the world, and I'm able to compare these actual experiences with scholarly works and what is being discussed in the academia. So, I'm able to see the gaps between practice and research. 

23:47 Christopher Michael Lee  

I commend you on working now on your master’s that you've gotten through now your PhD, that is not an easy thing to do, and frankly, having gone through that, it's not easy thing to do when you're dealing with the lack of accessibility in a lot of our higher education institutions. There has been some movement in that particular area, but there's still a lot to be done with the learning management systems and the content and textbooks. So, hats off to the work that you're doing, and I'm sending positive thoughts your way. Keep going. So, looking ahead, what do you believe all the most critical areas for improving global disability policy? 

24:29 Jean Paul Cruz  

It is important for me to highlight that we have progressed a lot in terms of policies, but it is very crucial for us to improve in terms of prioritizing our funds, particularly for governments. You see, I don't think that governments have limited funding or limited resources. They are just not prioritizing accessibility and disability rights. Finally, we need to advocate for accessibility and its inclusion in procurement policies. Imagine if organizations are required to purchase technologies that follow accessibility policies and laws, then we might have less accessibility issues.

25:22 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you for that. You know. So, in closing, just the last question, are there any exciting projects coming up? Or do you want to share some key takeaways with our listeners?

25:36 Jean Paul Cruz  

Again, I'd like to thank the organizations that have helped me throughout my disability policy journey. The Fulbright Philippines, which supported me as a visiting scholar at the University of California, Berkeley School of Law, the Melbourne Social Equity Institute, which is supporting me in my PhD program at the School of Computing and Information Systems at the Faculty of Engineering and IT. Inclusion is like a long road with all its twists and turns in accessibility is like a car, that you can use from one point of inclusion to another. But this car is not just any kind of car. It doesn't just have to be green. Instead, it could come in different colors or a rainbow if you want. These different colors represent different backgrounds. It can be a background in digital accessibility or built environment accessibility. And whether you are from the government, industry, academia or organization of people with disabilities or just an or an individual, and you have just started in the inclusion journey. You don't know how to start your accessibility car. I encourage you to reach out to Christopher or anyone from the G3ict family. And I'm very sure that they will have the resources that you will need to get you started. This resource may be the key to your own accessibility Car. 

27:11 Christopher Michael Lee  

Thank you for that. John Paul, you know what makes G3ict so special in many ways, and what I've learned as a as I've been a part of G3ict is the subject matter experts like yourself that make up the community and make up the foundation of who we are, what we're about. So, we're only as good as the people that we surround ourselves with, right? So, I want to take the time to thank you. Thank you for the work that you've done for us over the years, which has been phenomenal. And I look forward to talking to you again, and I look forward to seeing you on stage getting your doctorate.

27:55 Jean Paul Cruz  

Again. Thank you, Christopher, for inviting me to this podcast. Till next time. Bye.

28:01 Speaker  

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