E63: United in Accessibility: Leadership, Practice, and Global Impact with Christopher Michael Lee, PhD

This episode of the United in Accessibility podcast features Dr. Christopher Lee reflecting on his personal journey into accessibility and his leadership in building a global ecosystem through G3ict and IAAP, emphasizing accessibility as a growing profession grounded in human rights, education, and practical implementation. He highlights major 2025–2026 shifts, global regulations, AI, and innovation, while stressing that the future of accessibility depends on data-driven action, responsible technology, and stronger collaboration across organizations to turn commitment into measurable impact.

Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker

[upbeat music] Welcome to the IAAP United in Accessibility podcast. In this episode, we are honored to feature Dr. Christopher Michael Lee, CEO and President of G3ict and IAAP. Christopher is an international accessibility expert, author, and long-standing leader in disability inclusion and accessible technology. He has dedicated his career to advancing accessibility across education, government, and industry, with a focus on translating policy and standards into practical, scalable solutions. He began his work in assistive technology and disability services in the mid-nineteen-nineties and later founded and directed North America's largest higher education accommodation service and research center, supporting thousands of institutions and learners worldwide. Christopher plays a central role in advancing the implementation of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, strengthening the global accessibility profession and supporting organizations as they build inclusive digital strategies. He is also the author of three books and a frequent public speaker on accessible ICTs, assistive technologies, and cognitive accessibility. Join us as we explore Christopher's professional journey, his leadership in building the global accessibility ecosystem, and his perspective on what it takes to move from awareness to sustained, meaningful accessibility and inclusion on the United in Accessibility podcast. 

00:01:41 Sam Evans

Hello, this is Sam Evans with IAAP and G3ict. Thanks for joining us today for the United in Accessibility podcast. Today, I got a really great chance to speak with somebody that I've worked with for a number of years and really gave me my first introduction into accessibility. So, I'm excited to present to you this conversation with Dr. Christopher Lee, who's our CEO at G3ict and IAAP, and to talk a little bit about his background in accessibility and the work that we are all doing together at G3ict and IAAP. So Dr. Lee, first, welcome, and I think for those of us who may be listening and/or reading who might not be familiar with your background and your history, for listeners who might be new to this space for accessibility, how do you usually explain who you are, your background, and how accessibility became the core of what's become a large portion of your professional work? 

00:02:39 Christopher Lee

Oh, Sam, it's good to be here with you today. And I must say, um, to the, the greater audience here listening in, um, I learn every day something about accessibility from Sam, and we have worked together for years and had the pleasure to spend a good chunk of my professional career with Sam. So, it's an honor to be here with you, Sam, and to spend this little bit of time to talk about something that you and I are both very passionate about, and we both have our own stories. Like most people in the accessibility profession, um, they have a story that has attracted them to the profession, right? Um, it could be a personal/professional component to it, and mine happens to be that. And, you know, it's, it started early on, um, with my interest in, in succeeding in school, struggling through school due to my learning disability, um, or learning disabilities, I should say. Um, mostly with auditory and visual processing, which impacted my, my speech also. Well, I spent a lot of time just struggling through school. So, it became something I wasn't aware of that was gonna turn into a profession. It happened over a period of time, and mostly when I got into college, I went to the University of Georgia, and go Dogs, that I truly, I truly, um, fell in love with the, the disability community there, which was very tight, particularly the tutoring system that I went through. And I was able to watch, and maybe subliminally I wasn't aware of this, but all the volunteers, not paid, but volunteers that spent hours and hours and hours on reading textbooks into four-track tape recorders that allowed me and many other students at the University of Georgia to, um, get the knowledge to get equal access to content. Um, maybe not as quick as everyone else, but definitely eventually, which made a difference. So, I mean, that really got me into the field in a sense, and I did a lot of public speaking to high schools through the University of Georgia and their, their outreach to ensure that other students have access to content as well as services. And then when I went back to my graduate work, um, I noticed that things hadn't really changed much, much as they were trying in many ways. It's a, it's a big ship to move to get textbooks into accessible format. So, with a couple other folks, Noelle Gregg and a couple other mentors, um, within the university system of Georgia, uh, we came up with a, uh, a brilliant idea of combining accommodations under one umbrella. We really started with taking textbooks and purchasing them with a chunk of money that came from the system, and we, we cut them, we sliced them, we ran them through OCR, through scanners and OCR software, and converted them into accessible format, and then put them up, um, on, in a platform that, that students could access them and download them, as well as adaptive technology to be able to read them. That blew up, as you know, 'cause you and I worked together, um, at Georgia as well as Georgia Tech, into a, a, a full-blown accommodation center where we did research, um, we did captioning, we did all kinds of other aspects. We did Braille, and it was just really quiet an amazing experience. And so, it started from really day one, struggling in school, knowing that I wanted to get through school, knowing that eventually I wanted to help other kids get through school. That's how I got into the field and why I continue to be, um, passionate about it, much like you.

00:06:09 Sam Evans

Can you just for a moment just talk about your PhD work? You talked about your grad school, but you wanna just mention briefly what your PhD work is in. It's not something to be glossed over. 

00:06:20 Christopher Lee

Cognitive psychology is my interest, and my dissertation was focused on transition services. So, what I noticed, I was lucky I had a lot of support. Most kids don't have the same support I did. I had supportive parents. I had-- We had the resources to get me in college. I, I fell in love with sports, and that helped me get into college too in some ways. It, um, it was a very-- it was a, a time that I, you know, I was lucky to, to get into it. So, I noticed, you know, as I, as I went around and spoke, particularly to high schools and the vocational rehabilitation services, that there were massive gaps between when a student goes to K12 to higher education, higher education to the working world. So, my dissertation really focused on how do we improve those gaps. And there's a lot of data that's collected for students in, in K through twelve, but very little data that's collected, um, at all and reported federally in higher education. So, we don't really know, you know, what the snapshot is of how many students in higher education, you know, were getting accommodations and what accommodations they were getting and were these accommodations actually working. Um, so that, that became a passion of ours, the, the work that we did with, with Georgia and Georgia Tech of collecting data to try to figure that out. So, my dissertation, really, I took my dissertation and made it into action, which was, which was pretty, pretty cool. 

00:07:42 Sam Evans

And the reason I ask about that is 'cause I think it's really important for organizations that work in accessibility and disability rights that there's an understanding that at our organization, we are disability-led and informed. And so, I think that's really important and that you share that knowledge in-- across our teams as well. But just as a reinforcement about how G3ict and IAAP work is that we are disability-led and informed. And so again, putting a PhD into action and then having it become a, a cornerstone for your work professionally is I think a lot of things that people in academia aspire to. I continue to learn and am fascinated with everything that I keep learning from you. So, let's talk a little bit. So, we're, we're doing our look back and look forward. We are recording this towards the end of twenty twenty-five, but we're really already in our strategic planning for twenty twenty-six. As we're getting to know a whole new generation of people that are beginning their work in accessibility or perhaps transitioning to work in accessibility, let's talk a little bit about where IAAP and G3ict fit together as simple as we can make it for a new audience. What the organization G3ict does as the parent organization and where IAAP is part of those tiers, and then how do we work together, and what are we gonna be doing moving forward? 

00:09:00 Christopher Lee
 
Uh, it's a great question. And it's interesting, you know, a lot of organizations, individuals out there, you know, have heard of the name G3ict and have heard of IAAP, but sometimes, like you said, you know, there's a, a challenge in the sense of, of understanding what each does. The foundation, um, is advocacy for G3ict. We started in, in 2006, primarily coming out of this incredible human rights treaty, the first in the world, um, in 2006, that really put people with disabilities, specifically around digital accessibility, into the front. It's called the CRPD, the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. And from that human rights treaty, countries signed on, and there's 186 countries right now that have signed on to the treaty with a goal of actually implementing some goals that the treaty provides. G3ict supports that, and we support it, um, through a couple ways, mainly through advocacy, capacity building, uh, meaning going out to these countries and ensuring that they understand the CRPD, which we did early on, but now providing tools and products with partners to actually help continue to push the, the goals of the, the CRPD, and we continue to do that. So basically, you know, G3ict's, you know, primary mission is to build a global community, um, to advance the, the fundamental rights, uh, of persons with disabilities, um, to digital access, and that is IAAP's goal. They align beautifully. And IAAP, which is a, a community of accessibility professionals, that means not only the profession itself, professionals themselves, but also organizations that are interested in integrating accessibility into their ecosystem. So, it has, you know, we touch every sector, every industry, much like-- just like G3ict does. And we're one. We sometimes talk as we're two, but we are one. IAAP is an arm of G3ict. We are a division of G3ict, and we just happen to be the arm that really has very succinct products and services that can benchmark how individuals are growing as accessibility professionals as well as organizations and how they're implementing the ecosystem that I just talked about. So that's the two difference, I guess you could say, about G3ict and IAAP. We're the same, under the same umbrella. We are a division. IAAP is a division of G3ict focused on human rights, focused on capacity building, focused on education and certification. To put it in a nutshell, that's G3ict and IAAP. 

00:11:40 Sam Evans

I think of G3ict as our parent organization where our structure and governance comes from, but IAAP was a perfect marriage of that when the 42 founding members came together and decided this was the right fit. That was almost ten years ago now. 

00:11:55 Christopher Lee

Yeah, you make a good point. I mean, the story of IAAP is really interesting. I mean, IAAP, like you said, is ten years old. A little over ten actually now. So, um, it's twenty fourteen really when things happened. It was a group of organizations, uh, mostly tech organizations as well as some nonprofits, advocacy organizations that came together and said, "Hey, we need to ensure that when we're hiring folks on the job, that they have some knowledge and skill." That's when the three pillars of IAAP came about, and that's professional certification, education, and networking. Those are the three primary, and they bleed in nicely into G3ict. So when G3ict basically took over, IAAP didn't start, um, underneath G3ict. Um, it was in 2016, and it was just happened to be the year that we launched our first certification. 

00:12:46 Sam Evans

It's really been impressive to watch everything grow, not just within G3ict, but with IAAP and the reach and the growth we're seeing in the recent couple of years, which we're gonna talk about today, because 2025 has been just an astounding year for growth in the profession and around the world too. So, M-Enabling is and has been, and I believe this year's twenty years for M-Enabling, has been G3ict's capstone, their annual conference for leaders in industry and policymakers, and IAAP has been part of that for a number of years. And, and now we're together all in one conference. It's the marriage of all of the community members together, and it's really a-- it's a lovely thing. But at this year's M-Enabling in October of 2025, we talked a little bit about the state of the union. So, state of our shared work together, looking across IAAP's work in products and services in those three areas, G3ict, and then the larger ecosystem in accessibility around the world. If you can pull out a couple of things, what did you find to be the most meaningful moments of growth or notability in 2025? 

00:13:56 Christopher Lee

Wow. Great question. We're going through a lot of changes right now, particularly in the US. There's been a lot of, you know, focus on DEI, which, you know, has drawn some concern, um, from the community at large, being the, the, the community that, uh, people with disabilities as well as people who support individuals with disabilities. But there's been, you know, with that, saying that, just putting that front, I mean, the-there's been some challenges there, but at the same time we've seen some amazing things happen. A lot of this stuff happened way before this year that started to, to coalesce in a sense. I mean, and some of the stuff, you know, that we've seen has been around, you know, legislation that has been implemented, um, as well as around innovation technology. Um, so there, there's just stuff happening in those two areas that particularly that, that continues to just, I think, populate the social media, um, out there of things that are happening. And a lot of these things are pretty amazing things in, in, in the sense our system's change in implementation. The first is the EAA, you know, the European Accessibility Act, which was launched June 28, that has been in the works for many, many years, and it's being rolled out in Europe, which is pretty exciting. And, you know, it's 27 member states that are tied to this, so there's gonna be monitoring data coming out of how these states are handling the EAA. So that's one of the amazing things that happened this year. You know, you also have the, the ACA, the Accessible Canada Act that, that came about, and that's, you know, focused on more federal sectors and stuff, but still far-reaching. And then in the, in the US, we have Title III, you know, sorry, Title II of the ADA, and that, you know, has really impressive implications to the web accessibility, um, and digital accessibility. So those three alone, and there's others, I mean, there's other things that have actually happened other than just those. I mean, in the, you know, this, in the US, there's been some focus on, you know, travel accessibility with wheelchairs, and there's been an interest also in fashion accessibility and particularly, you know, um, at different events, more events that have popped up around that. So there's just a lot that's, that's out there that's been bubbling that really came about in 2025. But what excites me most is the innovation technology that is out there and what we've seen this year. I mean, it's, it's been pretty crazy. There's been vendors that have popped up that have utilized, you know, AI, machine learning, and so on to, to further, um, put accessibility into the forefront. It's pretty exciting. Um, some of this stuff is going mainstream, which is also something that you wanna see when it comes to adaptive technology and so on, much like incorporating, you know, uh, products and services in Google and Microsoft and Apple and so on. There's a lot happening, you know. Uh, there's AI, you know, powered accessibility tools. There's all kinds of things happening with navigation for people who are blind or visually impaired. I mean, I could go on almost because, uh, uh, there's some good stuff that's really come out of 2025. 

00:17:03 Sam Evans

I think one of the, the most powerful components it helps people understand a little bit more with the European Accessibility Act is that it's not just about compliance for technical components and the code, but about the usability of goods and services for people with disabilities, which is so closely tied to, to what the United Nations Convention on Rights of Persons with Disabilities about, is about the usability and equitable access, which I think is really exciting. And we've seen our friends in Canada and Australasia, both Australia and New Zealand are interested in following the same model. So, we're, we're going to reach thirty-plus countries quickly that want to adopt that same equity model for things, which is pretty exciting. 

00:17:44 Christopher Lee

Yeah. It really is.

00:17:44 Sam Evans

The coolest thing I saw at M-Enabling though this year was one of our attendees, um, who is, uh, has a spinal cord injury and is a quadriplegic attorney, showed me a mouthpiece that connects to their iPhone and allows them to tap inside their mouth to use their phone and he just whizzed through. He was like, "You gotta see this, Sam." And I was like, "Okay." This is probably the coolest piece. I, I thought eye gaze technology several years ago was really impressive, but the ability for people with spinal cord injuries and to be able to have full navigation and use that mouthpiece was really impressive. 

00:18:19 Christopher Lee

Yeah, and that particular technology, I don't know if it was the same vendor, but there was at-- while we were at Georgia Tech many years ago, there was research being done on that mouth-- a mouthpiece, whether it was that one or not, that did allow, you know, someone who was a quadriplegic or had other struggles in the sense of mobility to be able to navigate lights and, and other things like that, so their environment became more accessible. So yeah, things like that are so exciting. And then you have the BCI stuff, you know, the, the, the brain computer interface stuff that's now happening [chuckles] that's just unbelievable some of the things that, that we're gonna see, I think definitely within the next, you know, three to five years pop out. The key is getting money behind it, so the investors behind it and, and selling that to them. I'm hoping that we'll see more and more startups coming out that are funded, that either disability led, that's looking at innovation that's-- would benefit anybody, whether they have a disability or not. So, I, I feel there's, there seems to be a little bubbling up of, of these companies that are getting some funding to actually launch some incredible products. 

00:19:24 Sam Evans

So, I'm gonna ask you this question, but I'll tell you when it struck me the most, and it was something that one of our colleagues used to say. We had a colleague who said that the goal with accessibility is that people with disabilities can live, learn, work, play, and love in their community of choice independently. And that's when to me, I was like, this is not just good intentions. This is not just policies. This is really about focusing on the people. Where in your career, 'cause I'm gonna presume that you say yes, you realize this is more than that, but where and when in your career did you discover that accessibility would become a profession? Not just something that people focused on in, in niche areas of government funded or school programs or under accommodations only. When did you, when did you have a moment perhaps before you joined the board of G3ict? 

00:20:16 Christopher Lee

You know, it's, it's a good question, and I don't know if there was an actual moment. It was a combination of different incidents that happened that brought it to my attention. My work before the accommodation center that I was telling you about earlier was with the assistive technology program, so I got more hands-on work with people with disabilities. I got to work closely with Department of, of Labor and, and Vocational Rehabilitation Services in the States, and I got to see the benefits of engineers, rehab counselors, and a team of individuals, SLPs, PTs, OTs, that work together on a specific case of ensuring someone with a disability had what they need, um, to survive. Before that, I, I didn't have that experience and, and I, and I realized that this is a business in a sense. This is a profession. These individuals had specific skills that were needed, and they were trained to work with individuals with disabilities. And so that, and, and you know, we've seen that a lot with social workers who have just huge respect for that field itself. I mean, knowing how to connect the dots, I mean, it's not easy, and knowing the-- where to go and to, to, to funnel these individuals so they have the funding that they need, you know, they have the services that they need, uh, I mean, so on. So it really started, I think, with the assistive technology program that I started, but then when we moved into that accommodation center that, that you and I worked at, you know, it, it became very clear to me that this is a business in the sense that we were always treating, treating services and products for, for people with disabilities as kinda like you need to give them to them. You know what I mean? This is important, and that's true. Um, however, i-if you put up a business plan that provides, you know, a smart way of actually providing these products and services, that can work too. So, between the two of those, those experiences, it became very clear to me that this, this was a profession that was there but needed to be kicked up a notch, you know what I mean? And put a business model behind it, and I still think we've got a long way to go with that, to be honest with you. But I do think that there are vendors out there that, that have seen the, the market now, and we know that, you know, the one point three billion people is the largest minority out there of people that, you know, so that's, that's owned by people with disabilities. And then you got the aging population too. So, it's crazy that we-- that the companies wouldn't recognize that, and that's, I think we're starting to see that change slowly. 

00:22:42 Speaker

[upbeat music] The International Association of Accessibility Professionals currently offers four certifications. IAAP certifications are indicators of your commitment to the accessibility profession, the industry, and community. View the certification overview page on our website to learn more. 

00:23:08 Sam Evans

Shaping the world so that we can have accessibility professionals recognized as, as a profession and not an add-on, not a nice to have, to be recognized along with other professions that people know, oh, you're in finance, you're in banking, you're a, a security professional, so that people then recognize what that means or where the core is, is-- will be really exciting for everybody who's been doing this work for more than twenty years to see that happen, hopefully before they decide to retire and become our, our brain trust. Um, but also for the future, for people who've been doing the work and didn't know how to explain it to be recognized for all the work that they do. So, so to that end, IAAP is, is a professional organization that is for accessibility professionals. And part of that you mentioned in 2016 was the first certification, which is the Certified Professional and Accessibility Core Competencies. And one of our colleagues has always talked about that, the core competencies, what does that mean? It's not a beginner level, but it really is the foundation, just like a building. The foundation, your base, your bottom one-third of what you have is the strength that you need for everything that you build on top of that to have strength and stability moving forward. And so CPACC, this, that, that first certification, I think we now have more than seven thousand people that have taken that certification exam and earned that credential nine and a half years. So, um, that's pretty big. There are two other professional certifications at IAAP, and these have become professional milestones for people that work in accessibility. The second is more intermediate for people that work in technical digital web accessibility, the web accessibility specialist, and that was introduced in 2017. And then the accessible document specialist, which is for people that work in document accessibility. And since every organization everywhere on Earth produces documents, whether they're paper or digital, that's a pretty important piece of the puzzle too. So, these are milestones that people look towards, whether they're beginning or they're in their career or they wanna participate to support the profession. How do they help people do this work in the real world? 

00:25:15 Christopher Lee

Well, I mean, it's a, it's a good question. I think that you and I have had dialogue on this back and forth, and a lot of people understand what professional certifications are all about. The ones that do, do. But coming into it, some individuals that we work with don't have that, that expertise. But it is a-- not a certificate, and we know that it is something that you have to have the skill set, the knowledge and the skill set to be able to do. And we know that professional certifications, they have a history. IAAP is not the only [chuckles] organization that does professional certifications. We know that. And we know that the impact of professional certifications, you know, there's, there's, there's data behind that. We know that individuals that take professional certifications focus on, you know, getting, you know, higher earnings in a sense, as, as one way. Um, you know, the credibility is another thing that they get from a professional certification that you get. Um, it can expand opportunities, and it can provide you, you know, closer to a community at large, um, of your profession. So, there's, there's many benefits of getting a professional certification. And so, I think with IAAP's professional certifications, the, the importance is that specifically with the CPACC, let's just use that. The CPACC is broad enough that it provides a professional an understanding of what all disabilities and what some of the challenges, what are accommodations, how do you accommodate someone with a disability, and what's a reasonable accommodation in, in that sense, too. What is assistive technology? What is universal design? And having an understanding of that, um, can benefit anybody in the workplace, because very few folks that I know of don't touch accessibility or usability from a customer standpoint, from an employee standpoint in one way or the other. So having this, this type of knowledge, getting one of these certifications from IAAP provides just a depth of knowledge and allows someone, if you're sitting around the table a-at work, to be able to bring up things that most some people may not be thinking of. You know, it's not that difficult in a sense. You know, we all go through, you know, or know people that have either permanent disabilities or temporary disabilities or are aging and are moving into that. What we're doing at IAAP is saying, "Hey, this is a population out there that you will one day be in one way or the other, whether you call it disability or functional limitations, you're gonna have it." So, we're just throwing that out there. So, it's, it's a really exciting aspect. And you mentioned something earlier around, you know, sectors and industry itself. I mean, we touch all sectors, all industry, and really all roles within those sectors and industry, whether it's HR or working in procurement or being a developer or being in, um, a legal office. It's, it's something that we are, we're touching in every aspect of it. So, uh, there's, there's a lot to benefit with having a professional certification from IAAP, and I truly believe that because I also know that there are very limited academic environments that you can collect this knowledge. You know, there's not one place that you can get this a couple degrees out there that touches on this. There's a couple associations like RESNA, you know, ATIA and so on that have education built in. Um, but the professional certifications, you know, on what we cover is very unique. 

00:28:39 Sam Evans

The thing that I hear the most year after year, we're coming up on ten years of this, is, is that managers tell me that their employees, their team members that they've supported, pursue those, find confidence and initiative to really drive home accessibility and equity in their project work, no matter where they're working on teams and on the technical teams, that they tend to find themselves and become what their managers have said. They, they really thought they had some leadership capacity, but something about earning that validation of their experience and their knowledge really helps push people forward where they, they tend to really blossom and, and grow. And so I hear that repeatedly from managers and, and team leads. And so for it to be consistent year over year over year, and for individuals to say, "I learned more. Even if I've been working in the field, I learned so many things that I didn't know before. It helps me be a better person and a better professional." Those are powerful pieces that are a bit on the side of soft skills, but those are the things that make differences in project plans and development and help, help companies shape things the right way the first time through and, uh, and, and come closer to their goals for accessibility. 

00:29:54 Christopher Lee

Yeah. It's that m-- you know, having somebody that you can leverage within the organization that you can trust and move to that management, you know, piece is so important.

00:30:02 Sam Evans

So, we talked a little bit about the certifications, but IAAP is now working with a group of professionals, over ten thousand individuals in our, in our, in our membership rosters, whether that's from a company or individual, in more than a hundred and thirty countries. 

00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:20,520 [Christopher Lee]

Yep. 

00:30:20 Sam Evans

That's a really big reach for any organization. Can we talk just a little bit about-- because you don't have to be a member of the membership organization to pursue a certification. You don't have to earn a certification to be a member. So, can you talk just a little bit about how IAAP membership and certification complement each other over the course of someone's career? 

00:30:43 Christopher Lee

You know, I think IAAP will becoming more and more aware of the, the, the interaction, um, between our members and our certification holders. So you've got members that are not certified, and you have members that are certified, so you have a blend. And you know, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that everyone is on our roster, whether they're certified only or the member, to actually, you know, expand, I believe, expand the accessibility profession. So we have a common goal. And what's beautiful about that is that if I'm a member and I'm not certified, I have a network of subject matter experts that are certified that I can go to, you know. And that is that back and forth, that, you know, give and take, that reciprocity in a sense, uh, between membership and certification holders. And it's a beautiful thing to see as we're starting to become more and more aware of that, I think. And people are choose to be certified when they wanna be certified or, or maybe not be certified. It's, it's a very personal place that someone makes that decision, and it should be a decision they take very seriously because there is a, a maintenance component of that. You have to maintain credits over a three-year span, and that is a commitment as technology changes, as, as laws as we know now, and governing standards and so on change, which they have just this last year that we talked about. You know, it's important as a professional organization that we ensure the, the quality is there from our certified holders. So it-- I think it's something that we're very proud of, that aspect of that, and I think that trickles down to our certification holders. 

00:32:22 Sam Evans

I've been interested to watch on the membership side of things when people became, first came into the profession, were just getting started, perhaps when they first started their certification, that I'm now starting to see so many of those people are the ones leading community activities, uh, hosting webinars, being invited as subject matter experts, uh, to speak across the field. And so we really do watch that network grow from people that are newcomers and entering into the field to becoming part of being those experts that answer the questions, um, and hey, we, we have somebody who asked for this, and that call goes out to the community at IAAP, and we almost... I think we always find an answer with a group of people for whether it's a policy group, an organization, or somebody looking for a vendor to partner with. So, I think that's part of the magic of associations is that interconnected network of, of people you can trust and that are established among colleagues and peers, so. But across a hundred and thirty countries, 'cause now that means when somebody asks us, "Do you know somebody in Nigeria who does X, Y, and Z?" And I said, "I have a list for you. Yes." It's, it's really nice to see the breadth of accessibility spreading around the globe and not to be only concentrated in, in some of the leading countries that people might have thought of originally. 

00:33:40 Christopher Lee

It's a beautiful fit with G3ict. We talked about, you know, when IAAP came over in twenty sixteen, I mean, G3ict had been doing this forever. Their, their network of experts, because of capacity building tied to the, the UN, because of the data that they collect through the DARE Index, which is just basically a report card that G3ict produces that basically says how are countries implementing the CRPD? How are they meeting it from a digital accessibility standpoint? That data is so important for IAAP to grab and understand the, the, the, where the gaps are still. Earlier, that you brought up something earlier that, that I think is real important. You kinda touched on it a little bit a second ago, was, you know, this whole idea of emerging leaders in a sense. Association is about, you know, making sure that as you and I retire and move on to, you know, um, our retirement, that there's, there's folks that can follow in our footsteps, and it's all, it's our duty, you know, um, to make sure that we build an association that has, um, promoted that aspect of that, and that's, that's not an easy thing to do, um, especially right now as, as technology moves so fast and you've got all kinds of innovation technology. AI is doing so much work now behind the scenes and, um, but it's something that, that I think is, is very important obviously with an association that we try to honor. 

00:35:06 Sam Evans

It's so exciting to see people around the world get excited about their visibility within IAAP and the accessibility profession and beyond and it's really what you hope to see. I've worked in associations for a number of decades. It's what all associations hope to have, but sometimes aren't able to deliver. So, I think IAAP does a, a really good job of that, and working with people outside of our membership organization in the larger community as partners and strategic alliances. It's, it's really-- It's a, it's a nice opportunity for people to get as involved as they'd like to be with IAAP. So, you mentioned AI, and we can't look at anything in 2025 and not mention looking back at 2025 and then looking forward. But AI is really doing a lot of technical lift in digital accessibility in particular, but a lot of people may be a little uneasy about it, and they're excited, and there's good reasons for both, and we all know that AI must have a human gatekeeper, watcher, you know, [chuckles] somebody with the actual knowledge to make sure that, that it's fed correctly and what it gives us is correct. But what should accessibility professionals focus on right now in accessibility and AI? And what is IAAP doing to help ensure that accessibility is built into some of these emerging techs, not bolted on after the fact? 

00:36:28 Christopher Lee

This is obviously a very important area that we've-- that we focus on. I mean, mainly because, you know, a couple years ago, we were struggling having members with, with-- that, that are underneath our umbrella, IAAP, that were selling products and services, um, that are overlays, and that there was some challenges there regarding, uh, marketing and, and fairness and so on. So, I think one of the things that we've leaned into is ensuring that our offerings, our benefits have-- are addressing this. And one of the things we did this year was to launch a responsible AI LinkedIn show page, where we have, you know, the conversation of responsible AI when it comes to accessibility and people with disabilities. Um, it's an area that has several, uh, several dimensions that we have to bring together and put it into a framework and put it out there, and that's what we're doing, and we're working with some really good partners. It's not just our team, but we've gone out there and really looked at some experts in this area. So, I think, you know, responsible AI, particularly around marketing, branding and marketing is so, so important and needs to be addressed. Um, you know, so it goes all to the AI, you know, bias and fairness aspect of it. You know, I also think, you know, you kinda brought this up a second ago is, you know, accessibility around AI product testing, you know, um, ensuring that that is happening. There's a lot of tools out there now, now like chat boxes and other things that we need to make sure accessibility is built into that. That's not easy to do 'cause it's, they're moving fast, right? Um, you know, so I think, you know, we wanna make sure also, you know, another aspect is that, uh, when we actually are looking and reviewing, making sure that these, these products, you know, are accessible, that the quality of accessibility is important. You can use kinda like our VPATs in the US where you can check off what's accessible and what's not, and you can purchase something, but, you know, half, half of it is not accessible. Um, so there's some work in that area. I think, you know, definitely, um, you know, authoring tools, you know, anything to do with AI-assisted authoring tools need to be on our list, on our radar to pay attention to, particularly, you know, how, how fast they're coming out right now. We also have to look at kind of the, the legal and compliance aspect around AI. There's a lot. I mean, there's a, there's a, a slew of, of areas that, that the accessibility profession needs to be aware of, and that goes back to your question. You know, the second part of your question is, IAAP needs to make sure that we are working with the experts out there and putting this information in front of our members and not being shy about it, um, because it's moving very fast, you know. The other area that I think is important is just AI and how it's integrated with assistive technology. I mean, that's alone itself, it, it, it could be very complicated. So, there's all kinds. There's, you know, the, the data and privacy is an issue around AI. You think about, you know, individuals that are using, um-- trying to get employment, and they're using-- these companies are using AI to actually screen out folks from the-- from that standpoint. The individual may have a tic or a speech impediment or, you know, may be visually impaired, um, that-- and they're screened out, not even getting through door one because they're using AI tools to, to do, you know, recruitment and so on. So, we have a challenge in front of us, um, to make sure that we do our best to ensure our members have what they need to be at least aware. And the, the beautiful thing about it, as you know, is that we have a framework to do that. We have education, which is number one with IAAP, right? We have certifications that we maintain, and every year or two, we actually, you know, spend the time with subject matter experts who are volunteers, who are experts in the field around the globe, you know, come in, and they tell us what we need to be putting in those. So, we have, we have the vehicles to, to ensure our members, you know, know this information. We just gotta make sure we do it. 

00:40:25 Sam Evans

I kinda think we ought to come up with some type of an accessibility language that is the equivalent of caveat emptor, buyer beware. Uh, we need to come up with some type of thing for, you know, accessibility professionals, caveat emptor, uh, with AI. With the vibe coding that's happening right now, there's-- people aren't understanding the core basics of that, and so they're building things at just a breakneck speed. It's, it's fascinating to watch. But I think our accessibility pros are gonna have to kinda rein some of that stuff in for usability and prevent companies from, by chance, picking something up that doesn't actually serve the needs of people, and they don't have to know how to fix it all. They just need to know if there's a caution flag to be thrown on the play. There's my sports reference for you. 

00:41:11 Christopher Lee

Good. I keep trying 'cause it's football season, so I'm, I'm str-- college football season, so I'm struggling to, um, to hold that back. But you, you did it first, so now you've opened up the well. So, um, I, I do-- I wanna say, though, you know, it's, you know, we talk a lot about the certification and the education piece, but one of the, the, you know, staples of G3ict is the M-Enabling Summit. And, you know, over the last couple years, particularly the last three, we have flooded a lot of the content in the program at M-Enabling around AI. And some of it's been really good. Some of it's been kinda high level. And it's a challenge because it's moving so fast. We have to ensure that the content that we provide at our annual summit in DC, um, and it's usually-- it's in October, is a, is a balance of AI and accessibility, right? You have a lot of people coming in that may not know about AI, or they know about AI, but they don't know how it impacts accessibility so much. But then you have the subject matter experts. So, it's a balancing game. And, and, you know, in some of the survey feedback that we've had in our past three years for the, the summit, we will, you know, a couple times we will hit, like, you know, you all are doing too much on AI, but we know right now that it's almost, it's, it's just around you, so you almost have it filtered into this content. So, we're gonna try to do a better job next year on really, um, parsing out the, the really relative areas that we just talked about and making sure that we have that, that in the content in, in the appropriate way. 

00:42:35 Sam Evans

So, we're looking forward now into 2026. 2026 is gonna be the twentieth anniversary for G3ict and the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disability. If you had your, you know, your gazing ball to look at, what do you think feels like the most urgent part for the accessibility community to get right? If we were to pick, like, two things to get right on that twentieth anniversary, what would the top two be? 

00:43:00 Christopher Lee

You know, it, it's data, number one. Uh, we have got to know how things are going, um, throughout the countries. I had mentioned earlier there's a hundred and eighty-six countries out there that have ratified the, the CRPD. G3ict is currently in the third revision, third version I guess you could say, of the DARE Index, which is a, an index, a survey that goes out to advocacy groups in countries, and our goal in 2026 is to have over 130 countries participate in this survey. These survey respondents are, are organizations, a lot of them nonprofit, that support people with disabilities. And the survey's questions ask them how the country is doing regarding implementing the CRPD in specific areas. And what turns out is a report card of these countries of how they are ranked between, uh, each other in these specific digital accessibility arenas. And that is pretty exciting that we just happened to line up with that, you know, I'd like to say it was fully strategic, and I [laughs] I'm not a hundred percent it was, but, but we find ourself, you know, on the, the twentieth anniversary of the CRPD around the corner, and then we're also gonna be launching the, the DARE Index. So, the data's gonna be there. You know, it's gonna be very important that we make that data, and this is the second-- number two of, of, of first get the data, understand the data, but then translate it in a way that, that, that the countries can, can use it, right? And make sure they know about it in an appropriate way. And that's not easy to do. I mean, you need a full-blown marketing team to do that. You need to ensure that, that you, you sell it in the right way because, you know, regions of the globe are very different in how they actually take the information and use the information, um, could be-- they're gonna do it in different ways. So, it's gonna be, it's gonna be very interesting how we-- and what information is important also, right? It could be that, you know, we may think one thing's important that we push out, but it could be something else within the data that, uh, that we didn't realize was-- is more important in that country. So, it's, for a small nonprofit, which is, you know, what G3ict is, it's, it's, uh, behooves us to really be real strategic in, in, in launching this. So, I'm really excited about us having the data. I'm really looking forward to having the ability to do, I think, a much better job than the first two versions of the index, so this is number three, and, and getting it out there, um, in the right way. 

00:45:35 Sam Evans

I think our work, we've partnered with a really tremendous international research group to structure the, the research and the data gathering and the organization to distribute it. So I think our, our ability to, to grow in that area will help us really deliver really good data, usable data, and then be able to share that in a, in a manner that's gonna get the information out to places that probably need the data to make decisions so that they are-- can support the policies that are in place. And, uh, I think that research data is really important. I think everybody in business understands you need data to drive your decisions. Hopefully, the DARE Index can fill in some of those sentences with a-- as a resource that, that we'll, we'll find on the lips and keystrokes in the hands of, of many people around the world. 2026 is gonna be huge for us because G3ict's anniversary, uh, M-Enabling's anniversary, the UN CRPD's anniversary. Looking forward, CRPD is growing at the United Nations with new votes about equitable access, not just a concept of human rights. So, the UN is making progress too. Those were huge votes just a few-- just a week ago. 

00:46:44 Christopher Lee

Yes. Yes. 

00:46:44 Sam Evans

So, um, if you're reading, listening, or watching this in, in January, it'll be pretty, pretty, pretty big news out of the United Nations for their votes about rights, not just rights, human rights, but equitable access towards employment and healthcare, so it's pretty big. Uh, but so 2026, what are your biggest ideas of, of things about projects that we're working on within G3ict as a whole? Talked about DARE Index is really important, but projects and hopes for the accessibility profession as a whole in 2026, and then what message would you most want people that are reading, listening, or watching with us to, to think about for 2026? 

00:47:23 Christopher Lee

Yeah.2 I mean, I believe, you know, it goes back to kind of what we've talked about. I think now that we'll have this data, you know, hopefully the-- by the second quarter of 2026, we have a-- we-- I think we have a good pulse on what's going on there, going on within the, the countries. So I think looking at countries, looking at cities, looking at organizations that support these countries and cities in a sense, and some of them are our members at IAAP, it's important that we put-- we set up benefits, I think, uh, to ensure that we are giving them what they need. And some of the benefits that we've, we've been working on is we've worked on a business, you know, accessibility criteria, what we call BAC. It's a product that is, is, um, owned by G3ict, the IP, but the actual product itself, which are a set of criteria, fourteen criteria types, and then they lead off to, uh, several of the questions that a company can take, and it's recommended by a steering committee of organizations with disabilities. So they're the ones that really host and own the, the criteria itself, um, it's, it's very powerful and, and I'm really hoping that we can get that off the ground in, in 2026, and it can be paired with the DARE Index results in a sense that we can go and, and say, this is-- these are criteria that are coming-- or recommendations that are coming from the disability community. We also have a, a maturity model that was supported by, um, um, development by Microsoft. You know, we have one for universities, we have one for cities itself, and we also ha-- you know, have one, um, for, um, industry itself. So, I'm hoping that we can, you know, use that with the criteria to really develop a really impressive benefit or benefits for, for our members, um, that they could leverage. And all of those are, are partners. You know, it's not just us doing this, but we have partners that support that. Um, so I'm, I'm excited about, you know, strengthening those partnerships. It's so important to do that. Um, I'm looking forward to the, the summit again in, in October and, and launching some, some new content that staying on top of things based on what we're learning from the DARE Index. So, a lot of it feeds from the DARE Index and the advocacy work that we're doing and what we're seeing particularly around particular areas of the, the criteria fourteen types, which is procurement, AI, HR and so on. So-- And then packaging, uh, you know, with our subject matter experts on network, not just us, but packaging, um, some, some really great content that will help, um, give, um, give companies what they need and cities what they need. Um, that's what's so important, and I think that's the one area that we always, you know, struggle with in a sense is, is because it's not easy knowing exactly what these companies need. So, I think with this, this new data coming in, it's gonna help provide that, that information. So that's what I'm most excited about. I'm, I'm seeing for 2026 is having this data and being able to really package the right things to, to support our members a-as well as, um, other, other folks that may not-- I wanna develop some-- we wanna develop some sort of, you know, end of year, next year, 2026 report that gives us a, a, a, an idea of what's happening out there. Um, so I'm, I'm excited about that. You know, in your second part of the question, you know, I go back to the very beginning of our, our discussion, um, today. You know, we are, we are facing a lot of challenges around the DEI, uh, aspect and, and accessibility has been at times, not always, thrown into, into the mix, and that has placed some challenges specifically in the U.S. as well as a global aspect of it too. So, I think, you know, what I, I truly believe is that at this time when we're trying to figure out where people with disabilities sit in this, in this landscape, that we have to partner, and I'm not just saying lip service partnerships. I think we need to develop some very, very focused projects and programs, um, leveraging each other's knowledge, what we bring to the table, what other partners bring to the table, what resources we bring to the table, what resources other, um, organizations bring to the table and support each other right now. It is all about supporting each other. It is not about one organization trying to-- that supporting people with disabilities and the people that support them trying to do it on their own. It is not gonna happen. Um, it's not gonna happen before what we're going through right now with, with the, the changes, um, um, and surely, you know, um, what not gonna happen at this time. So, I'm, I'm committed to working with organizations, committing, supporting organizations in any way possibly that we can. 

00:52:14 Sam Evans

And I, I think that's-- you talked about giving people smart cities I think is so important. That's becoming a governmental, municipal governance, architecture governance technology. That piece is gonna be really important. I look forward to us being able to partner with other organizations and have that as a focus. And then, um, I have, I have people that I work with, and we, we put together some proposals for s-conferences this year about what it means we are all doing this work together. We are not in a competition against one another. We are all hand in hand doing this together, and if we put that forward, I think it'll really help us all. We're all gonna benefit so much from our partnerships and, and to grow, oh, this organization excels in ABC, and this partner needs X, Y, and Z, and hey, we're right in the middle with this. So, um, I really look forward to seeing those things come together and seeing those partnerships become a regular part of our discussions, our meetings, our events, our programs, our projects. And I think the, the BAC, the criteria is really gonna give people the tools to figure out what they need to do with guidance, how to do it, and partners and consultants that can help them reach those goals. So, I think that really does kind of tie us into our, our name of this podcast, again, is United in Accessibility, uh, for a reason, and that tagline was brilliant. Kudos for that, by the way. Again, this has been a really lovely chance for me to sit and talk with Dr. Christopher Lee, our CEO at G3ict, about looking back at 2025 and some of the history that brought us there and what we're heading to in 2026 for G3ict, our advocacy work, that data gathering, uh, for IAAP, for our members, for our partners in the, in the work that we do in accessibility and, and for the benefits and rights that brings to bring us all to level up as we move forward. And I know I'm thankful for my time. I'm thankful for my mentor and great teacher, Dr. Lee. I've learned so much, and I remember the first time I met you and your passion and the sparkle in your eyes when you talked about this. I was like, "This is the place. This is the thing. This is the work. This is the place to put your, your time into." And for those of you who work with us in accessibility, whether you're a member or not, thank you for your work and everything that we do to make the world a better place. Again, United in Accessibility. Dr. Lee, thank you so much for making time. I know you're busy. And for everybody listening, reading, or watching along, thanks for joining us, and we'll look forward to seeing more of you in 2026. 

00:54:48 Christopher Lee

Thank you, Sam. Thank you, everyone. 

00:54:50 Speaker

The International Association of Accessibility Professionals offers a variety of membership options for individuals and organizations. Whether you are an expert in accessibility or just starting your journey, join the only global accessibility professional association promoting and improving digital accessibility and physical environments. IAAP advocates for the inclusive design and creation of accessible products, content, services, and spaces to ensure no one is left behind due to a physical, sensory, cognitive, health, or psychological-related impairment. United in Accessibility, join IAAP and become a part of the global accessibility movement. [outro music]