Cigars and Cinema Podcast
Every cigar is smoked in thirds: First third, second, and final, just as every Movie is performed in three acts. Join Eric Drazin and Mike Coleman to delve into the world of cigars and movies as they analyze, break down, and critique cigars and films as each progress.
Cigars and Cinema Podcast
"I Am Rob Roy! Adventure Series Part 1" Ep. 104 4/23/26
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Welcome to your passport to adventure, and cigars! Eric and Curtis begin a journey into the world of adventure films! The first stop is Rob Roy starring Liam Neeson. Join us in the journey and smoke the Cigar Clowns Goldie Grace!
Cigar Clowns Goldie Grace Link
https://oakglentobacconist.com/product/cigar-clowns-x-chaffiot-goldie-grace-corona-gorda-5-5x44/
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Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema. Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's journey into another episode of Smoke and Screen. Today's episode of Cigars System is coming to you from the OTT Cigars side enjoy five at three of custom cigars at an undeniable fight. Join the community and smoke with us on the Oakland Tobacchinist YouTube channel as we delve into the rich experience of OT Craft Cigars and many cigars and bipolarist custom made just for our membership. If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the subscription and a full post of these cigars, visit us at www.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars. Hello everybody. Welcome back. After a week of absence, welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema Podcast. If you're unfamiliar with this podcast, this is where we smoke cigars, unabashedly commentating, in some cases, giving extreme opinions on film and entertainment. As usual, coming to you from North Carolina on the East Coast, I'm Eric Drazen from OGT Cigars, and with me tonight on the West Coast, Curtis Bailey from California. Curtis, good to be have you back on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm I'm I'm glad you're back. I'm glad we're back. Um, but I am a little bit uh apprehensive tonight because I know your uh tendency to uh not look kindly upon some of my favorite 90s movies. So uh I I think that I speak for Rob Roy himself when I say there best be no skullduggery here.
SPEAKER_00I think uh I do think we're in for an episode tonight. I will say. So if you guys are watching, uh buckle up. It's gonna be an interesting one. Um yeah, so we have a lot to talk about. Uh that being said, I also see that we have a lot of comments dropping. I personally have been looking forward to tonight, not only because of the absence of not doing it in a while, um, but it also like it doesn't fulfill that like weak fix of you know talking about movies, hanging out with you. So here we go. Uh RJ's on saying, Hello, Eric and Curtis, and welcome back. Tonight I'm smoking a Triforium from Black Label. Great choice. Seen him all over social media at his booth and just got me in the mood for Triforium. Yes, we did visit uh the Black Label booth, got a brief interview with James. Um, there is a new limited cigar that they're releasing, hopefully, I believe like a week or two out, called the macabre. Got to smoke it. It was the first cigar I smoked at the show, and it was insanely good. So, more on that. In fact, a lot of PCA questions or like recap. That'll be happening in two days on our Thursday podcast. So if you guys want to hear more about the show in depth, tune in then. But thank you so much for jumping on tonight. We also got Daniel Frazier on tonight. Um, it's gonna be a great show, uh, not only because we're we're starting a new series, but we also have a favorite cigar that we're gonna jump into. Um, but right before we do that, very quickly, I have to mention this project we have coming uh that's dropping tonight. So for all OGT Cigar Society members, this is the first of five. I don't know if anyone saw the video or able to see the blog we wrote. Um, but Curtis, I'm sure you saw pictures of this.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00And so this is the first installment of five different blends that are a part of what we call the Order of Chevetta, which a Chevetta knife is like a tobacco knife. Um, five different knights, all represented in different colors and different blends. This is the first time we've ever done a cigar that uses a Brazilian Habano wrapper, it's been aged for three years. Super limited, so limited, in fact, that uh it's only obtainable through the membership. So I'm super excited about this. Shout out to my brother Andrew for creating the art. I think he just knocked it out of the park. Super cool, super excited for this project.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm I'm I'm really looking forward to that. And I second the uh props on the art. I think it's wicked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it was kind of like I had this concept that I've been thinking about for a while, and then uh coming to find out, Andrew also shares um a lot of interest in the kind of like medieval night type of art style. And so we were like, this is gonna be really, really cool. It's very special because, like I say, it's a set of five. At the end of the day, like when we get through like basically the fiscal year and we've dropped all these cigars, uh, anyone who has all five takes a picture, snapshot of all five of them together. Um, there's gonna be like a big raffle prize as well. So it's pretty cool all around. Um, that being said, uh, I'm gonna take a few more comments here and then we'll jump into what we're smoking tonight. Um, let's see here. RJ saying Tuesday nights don't feel the same without you guys on. Oh, thank you, RJ. We we feel the same. Seriously, yeah, it's it's cigars and cinema night. Uh let's see. Uh Daniel is saying uh I had a dissident tirade. Wow, that was a great stick. 100%. I agree. Fantastic cigar. Cholico's on saying, hey guys, I haven't heard from Cholico in a while.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, nice, nice to see you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then Raider Dave saying, Good evening, fellas. Welcome back tonight. I chose a Las Calaveras 2020 pairing it with a Penelope Architect Cheers. Um, I'm sure more will just be said, but uh actually, Curtis, Raider Dave reached out to me today and has a concept about a pairing situation that I'll have to talk to you more about, but he recommended something to pair with and potentially a way for us to both pair it at the same uh podcast.
SPEAKER_01He he reached out to me about it as well.
SPEAKER_00Sweet, awesome. And I couldn't help but notice the fancy beverage that you just just had. Well, what do you have tonight?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I decided it why not be on theme tonight and have a Rob Roy.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Basically, you know, a Manhattan made with scotch instead of rye.
SPEAKER_00Okay, nice, nice, nice, interesting. I'm assuming, I mean, depending on what scotch course you're using, but do you find it a hint more sweeter, or would you say the other way around?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, probably a little bit. That that's that's fair to say. I'm using monkey shoulder.
SPEAKER_00Okay, nice, nice, solid. So tonight we're going through the OGT variety pack, and tonight's cigar that we are smoking is sort of an OG here at OGT, and that is the uh Cigar Clowns and Shaffio blend that was originally released a long time ago, known as the Goldie Grace. Uh, Curtis, I know you've smoked this cigar, but I think it's somewhat been while um it has.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. This is in the the Corona Gorda size. Uh originally we did a pre-release before this happened. It's a 5.5 by 44 gauge box press. It supports a Habano wrapper over Nicaraguan binder and fillers. Um, so I'm excited to relive this cigar, go back into it. Um, and let's say you we get it light lit up.
SPEAKER_01Well, uh, we want to do a cold draw first?
SPEAKER_00Oh, true. True, true, true. Yes, let's let's get a cold draw happening here. Yeah, I like the box press on this. Not a closed foot, it's open foot. Good open draw.
SPEAKER_01Sweet green tea.
SPEAKER_00Ooh, I can see that. Yeah, I can definitely see that. Yeah, almost a little bit of like and I think maybe because my mind's immediately being here in North Carolina when I hear sweet and tea in the same sentence, a little bit of peach to it as well. But yeah, really not much of a bite at all. Kind of really smooth, sweeter side. All right. Well, we're gonna jump into this and see what it starts with. Every cigar leaves an impression.
SPEAKER_01However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00So enjoy your cigar as you light it up. Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
SPEAKER_01In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface. So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
SPEAKER_00Man, right out of the gate, there is like a cinnamon sweetness to it, um, a little bit of baking spice to it as well.
SPEAKER_01I think I'm getting um maybe almost ginger snap kind of okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like a ginger snap cookie type deal. Yeah. Wow, a lot of smoke output. Draw and like construction is perfect. You get a little maybe that cinnamon is more on the retrohale than anything, not so much on the palate. Um, I wouldn't say it's too aggressive, but it's really rich at the same time, which I really like. Um the thing is that oh yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say that that I just I think this cigar being the first uh collaboration those two did together, it's really cool to see. I think this was two and a half, maybe three years ago, and see where it is now, and them kind of merging as a company together. There's a lot of history in the cigar, but it's easy to see why it works so well in terms of their palettes and their their flavor profile.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh the I feel like the the retrohale brings a little bit of extra breadiness, but almost like uh with a slight savor. So, like am I thinking is it's like like a like a saltine cracker, maybe almost or something like that.
SPEAKER_00This this cigar really, and I always wonder like when it's gonna pop in. Not so much when I first lit it, but as we're getting into it, it's definitely coming forward. Almost like a a plain, like no frost, like inside of a cinnamon roll. How like it's laced on that cinnamon side, but it's got the doughy compelment uh element as well. I don't know. I always think of like cinnamon roll, but I also see that ginger snap as well. A lot of things going on with the cigar. So we are starting a new series, and this is something that anyone watching right now, we want your help as well. We want your input on cut potential ideas in terms of I guess what what are we calling this, like adventure type series?
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, I mean, uh the movie we're discussing tonight, Rob Roy, is a uh, you know, I you could broadly call it an adventure tale, but specifically it's a uh a folk hero myth, right? Okay, you know, or a legend, you know. So Rob Roy was a historical person, but a lot of what made him famous and kind of last in Scottish culture was the legend that grew around him and the way that the story was told. So uh, you know, that's kind of the lane that we want to try to stick in for uh the next uh several movies we do.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so we're we're kicking it off with Rob Roy. Um, this is a movie that I had not seen. This is a movie that Curtis has seen many times. So Curtis, if you if you wouldn't mind, like I know, I know like this was made at the same time as uh Braveheart. Right. And I feel like William Wallace is a bit more of a more like pop culture figure people know of a bit more. Like Rob Roy, this movie, the character is based on. Is there any other like backstory you know about him or anything like that?
SPEAKER_01Uh I mean, uh other than just having the understanding that historically, um, you know, who Rob Roy was and uh you know how good of a person that he was is probably more complicated and and you know muddy and you know, because of course as movies do, this paints him very, very, very heroically. In real life, probably wasn't quite that level of a guy. Um but uh you know that's true for most of them.
SPEAKER_00Sure, sure, 100%. Well, and again, this movie, I mean, what, three years after Last of Mohicans, I believe, same year as Braveheart, then you had later had like Patriot, you had um these sort of like epic historical fiction films that I don't really see being made anymore.
SPEAKER_01Mask Mask of Zorro is another one, which might might be one that we do uh uh in in this uh theme. We'll we'll see. Definitely so people talk to, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00And again, if you guys have some suggestions, whether you're watching now, you're hearing on the podcast, reach out. What do you think would fit really good in the genre and that you think that we should tackle? But Rob Roy was made in 1995. It is rated R with a runtime of two hours and 19 minutes. Uh, in terms of a really quick synopsis on it, in 1713, Scotland, Rob Roy McGregor is wronged by a nobleman and his nephew, becomes an outlaw in search of revenge while fleeting the red coats and facing charges of being a Jacobite. Uh stars people like Liam Neeson, John Hurt, Tim Roth, uh Jessica Lange. Um, so pretty, pretty decent-sized cast. I will also say for the concept of being this sort of like historical epic, it's pretty contained in terms of like cast and such. What I found really interesting because back then in the 90s, it always seemed like what they were going for is these big epic battle scenes and such like that. So I found that interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, and that's probably one of the things that I like about this movie is that uh, and don't get me wrong, I love the movies that are high on spectacle and action, and you know, that Mask of Zora movie that uh I just mentioned, I think is you know a great popcorn flick. Uh, this one has a a little tiny bit of that, but it's it's mostly about you know these characters and the way that they um uh you see their um behavior interactions with each other reveal who they are.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01That's kind of like more or less what the movie is focused on, and I appreciate that about it.
SPEAKER_00And it seems like one of the biggest themes is this uh concept of honor. Very much who has it, how do you get it, how do you hold it, how do you lose it, basically. Um, so right before we jump into kind of broad strokes of what your thoughts are, uh on a technical aspect, real quick, I don't know if your mic is close enough or not, or if it's just my audio. Is it?
SPEAKER_01Sorry, it sounds let me see if the cable is loose, perhaps.
SPEAKER_00Okay, sorry, I can I can hear you just fine, but it almost sounds like it's on the back side of the microphone. Um, and why you take a look at that? Let's see here. We got a few comments. Raider Dave, I'm gonna take a shot. Uh, how about Robin Hood, men and tights? Whoa, whatever you did, that sounds a lot better.
SPEAKER_01Not a terrible suggestion. Yeah, I just I plugged it back in, and maybe it was just a little loose.
SPEAKER_00Cool. It's perfect now. It's perfect. Uh Mitch is on saying, You want an adventure, Pennsylvania Broadleaf, filler, Nicaragua, mind or Honduras. There you go. Um, although I will say, Raider Dave, as crazy as Robin Hood Men and Tights sounds, I almost thought you were gonna say Kevin Costner Robin Hood, which I don't know if it would be a better selection.
SPEAKER_01Now that that's a movie. Uh you know, I was talking about like how you you're not kind to the 90s movies that I love. I also love that one, but I would not like try to sell it. Like, you know, I mean, Kevin Costner is pretty bad in it, and there's some pretty goofy stuff, but I I I have so much nostalgia for that because I was like what 12 or something when that came out. Thereabouts, I was like the perfect age to just like go see a cool Robin Hood movie where Alan Rickman says, I'll cut your heart out with a screw. Like, you know, I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_00And honestly, in all fairness, uh, I say that objectively, I'm like, Oh, this is a bad movie, but likewise, I think I watched it when I was like 10, and I I also I was huge on Robin Hood. So and Alan Rickman is really pulling that movie up the the hill the entire time. Absolutely okay. So broad strokes, Curtis, what what is it about Rob Roy that you really enjoy about this movie?
SPEAKER_01Um, I like the um the sort of uh you know, relatively broad, straightforward, um slightly romantic storytelling style that it has, you know, it's not uh a super deep character drama, it's not trying to be revitist revisionist about anything, it's just slightly like pretty you know, pretty classic uh um, you know, uh good guys versus bad guys kind of thing. But with the uh the uh added layer of, at least for me, uh I really like the way the language is used in this movie. A lot of uh um you know, relatively period appropriate uh dialogue and stuff like that is super cool to me. And uh I just like the performances, I really like the um the honesty of the relationship between Rob Roy and his wife. Uh uh, I think that they're uh a super cool, you know, kind of a version of a married couple that you don't see very often, I think, or at least maybe not often enough uh in films. And uh I think that the the bad guys are really you know dastardly and easy to hate, which is fun for me in a movie like this. Uh, I like the music, I think the location is beautiful. There's just lots of I don't know, it it it it it checks most of the boxes for me.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Now, for our audience watching right now, if you guys have seen this movie, I would love for you guys to chime in. What are your thoughts on this movie? What do you think of Rob Roy? Um, because I I'm not gonna lie, I'm I'm trying to buffer this. I do think this is gonna be a tumultuous episode.
SPEAKER_01I know. I I was like I I was I was geared up for this.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Now, first off, without just like doing the typical Eric Drazen thing and being like, Well, I didn't like this and I didn't understand this. I will say it did seem like they did a pretty in-depth job, historically speaking, in terms of costume, in terms of speech, dialogue. Um, there is multiple scenes where there are like uh the the nobleman, the the villain. I think uh what's that? Is that Michael Hurt?
SPEAKER_01Uh John John Hurt as the Montrose.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so he's got like this, like like this uh African-American waiter kid with him. Yeah, and when we're watching this, Mallory's like that costume that that kid is wearing is like straight out of a painting. She's like, that was that's really impressive. Like that sort of sourcing. Great job. So I will at least say that. Music, I did like the theme as well. Um this movie, though, I feel like suffers from cool concepts but poor execution. A lot of the scenes that were meant to be impactful or like really like breathtaking to me, left it like I don't really know what these choices are and how it works. For example, the concept is like uh he decides to go with this nobleman, give me a thousand bucks, and basically we'll take that loan, we'll repay it. And if I can't repay it, then you take all my land.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And then he he leaves this sidekick guy to in town, he's like, Well, I'm gonna go back to our village, you stay in town, you pick up the note of rights, that's basically a good credit, and of course, he falls plot and uh is mistakenly given a thousand dollars in coin or a thousand pounds in coin and then gets robbed. One is after they find that like the guy's missing and his horse comes in, everyone in the village is like, nah, he's been talking about going to America and he just left. I'm like, if there's so many doubts, why would you leave only one dude to handle the most important thing and leave it to someone who you don't even like fully trust? Like Rob trusts him, but the rest of the village is like, no, no, no, no, no. He's gone. He took the money. And the execution of him have being like killed and the money stolen is to me very anticlimactic. I don't know, it just it didn't work. I was like, what what is going on here? That is probably a preference thing, but I'll open with that. What are you what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, I think the the uh character's name is Alan, I believe, um, played by Eric Stoltz. Um you know, that for me, that whole thing reinforces the the theme about uh honor and you know um not only uh how you uh protect it in yourself, but how you give it to others. And uh you know, that demonstrates that because this character could have potentially had a you know motivation to steal from Rob, but Rob trusts him anyway. That's him showing respect and honor to his clansmen. Like that's you know, that's Rob demonstrating who he is by making the choice to trust this guy that other people don't trust. So for me, on a character level for Rob, that scene makes perfect sense. The the way that sequence plays out. As far as like, you know, how he gets uh um uh you know chased down in the woods by uh Tim Roth and all that kind of stuff, like I can accept, you know, uh style wise or execution wise if that seems Wasn't to your liking. This is going to be a tough one for me, too. I think we've mentioned this before, but because I've known this movie and seen it a bunch over 30 years, there's a lot of stuff in it that I probably take at face value that if I were to watch it with fresh eyes, like you know, whoop, delete it from my memory, and then I watch it and I might agree with you about some of these things, but I don't know how to like pull that out, you know. So yeah, no, definitely take that for what it's worth.
SPEAKER_00No, I I totally get it. I mean, and I definitely have like I I won't look at something uh super critical either that I've grown up and love as well. So I totally understand that. Um, and I don't even know if that's the case. I just think, yeah, there's maybe it's more endearing, and so it has a lot more holding there. But I think like to your point about like showing Rob's character about trusting his clansmen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this deal that he brokers also puts like the rest of the village in jeopardy in terms of like needing to make certain that they make this payment, right?
SPEAKER_01No, they they're not on the hook for the money, it's just Rob's land is the collateral. Okay, so and they're they're not there's there's nobody, there's nobody else in his family or clan that would be financially liable per the terms of the agreement that they okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay, so that makes more sense because I was like, okay, yeah, it it's good that he trusts this one guy, but he just doesn't care about what the rest of the clan says. Like, I'm like, even if it's putting them in jeopardy, okay, but that makes a bit more sense. Yeah. Um, I think part of two, what starts to disenchant me is is you you're introduced by some of these characters of like, here is a demonstration of how they truly are. In the beginning, when you see Rob like chase down these these cattle thieves and like gives them a chance, except for the one guy. Um, you're learning about his character. Well, Tim Roth's character, you're learning, is a lot of it's a front. He's an actor. He he wants to appear one way and not the other way. Tim Roth is a really good actor, and I think he did pretty good in this too. But it's so so much that I'm like, this is I dealt this seems a little too melodramatic for me to take it as serious. I don't know. What do you think about his execution?
SPEAKER_01Uh, I I I love Tim Roth in this. He won a BAFTA, if I'm not mistaken, for this performance. Um uh you know, I I again uh the the movie's style is intentionally uh you know, I don't know if broad is the right word, but you know, it's it's not trying to be a super detailed, um and nuanced realistic character drama, right? You know, this is still at its heart kind of a romantic legend that's being told. And so for me, a it would given that, a kind of you know, a little bit over the top uh Arch sort of you know villain character like Archie uh uh is it uh it just makes sense for me. Okay, um, but again, that's it just a style and tone thing that I can understand. If you're like if you don't hit the wavelength, then it's just not for you. And I would get that.
SPEAKER_00You know, on the on the the reverse side, it's funny because before OGT, um, as I've mentioned before, I worked at like a living history farm for over a decade. And when you do that, you're around a lot of reenactors. And um there are some reenactors that do it so well, and then there's some that are like, you know, they bought the uniform and they just kind of want to buy into this concept of we we dress up, but we don't we don't really invest in like the relevance or even the educational part, right? Um, so we would go to one of the craziest things that happened is I went to a reenactment in Huntington Beach Park, and this is the first time we've ever done this with like a group, and we're gonna reenact. I was a British regular, we're gonna reenact a battle and such. So we get in that evening, we're setting up our tents, um, and like the shadow approaches the tent, and this British regular all in full regalia. And this is bear in mind, we're I'm like 22 years old. The rest of us are like 22, 24. We just got in, we're setting up our tent, we're in like hoodies and sweatshirts, and he like walks in and he's like, The general requests your presence whenever it's convenient. And I'm like, Okay, I get it. Like, this is what we're doing on the job, but right now it's 10:30 and it's just us hanging out. So we go and like there's this full it looked cool, but it's a full historical spread. And like this general's like sitting at the like head of the table, and he's like, Find your seats, and like he was very nice, hospitable. Like, he's like, Hey, would you like a drink? But it's not like we're gonna hang out and have a drink, it's like uh we have this spiced rum we spiced ourselves, so we're like hanging around taking a drink, and out of nowhere the tent falls silent, and this general just breaks out in song of God save the king. And then me and my friend are like looking at each other, like, well, what do we do? And then they stand up and they're raising toast and they're like really, really into it. And the my point is there's this culture in reenacting that is just like wenches, wenches, rum, rum, rum. And it was at the height of like pie.
SPEAKER_01I lost your audio, Eric. All right, Eric is having technical difficulties. So since he's unable to fight back and talk at all right now, I'm just gonna say that everything that he's gonna say that is a negative about this movie for the next you know 40-ish minutes, however long we have left, he is wrong. That's just the way that this goes. It's it's he's wrong. But you all know that. You know that in your hearts. This is the guy who gave Tombstone a 3.8 for crying out.
SPEAKER_00Wait, I'm back. I'm back. No, my point being is that the the pirate, like height of the pirate thing is very much like this, like, ha ha, we're men, and you know, we pillage and we we have wenches. And I'm like, I can't see this movie without that playing in the background of my mind.
SPEAKER_01Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So on some level, this is it's influencing when I was watching this movie. I get it.
SPEAKER_01That's a funny story, though. I like that.
SPEAKER_00That being said, Raider Dave is on board with you about the tombstone remark. So yeah, come on. Um, so yeah, when like when the scene in the beginning when Rob and his like friends like show up and they're like, We're gonna give these cattle ranch. I'm like, this is like I feel like Hollywood kind of pushing that envelope, especially to the same year as Braveheart and few years after. Like, I I miss the aspect of these movies being made, but I also feel like that is a thing in the 90s.
SPEAKER_01It is. Uh, you're you're not wrong. Um, I I sorry, I have to comment since you just mentioned Braveheart. You know, at the time, you know, when these were both brand new, I liked them both. Um, Rob Roy has continued to be a movie that I really like revisiting all the time. Braveheart for me has kind of fallen off in my esteem. Like, I my my opinion on that one has really changed over the years.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, I'm not I'm not gonna fight you on that. I agree. It it's got good moments. I think it suffers from the same problems that a lot of, even though he didn't, he has nothing to do with this movie, but a lot of David Fincher films, how they start off strong and then they just deteriorate. Oh, sure. Yeah, I feel like Braveheart, like the last hour, hour and 20 minutes. That's what happens with that movie. I get that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but very quickly, before we continue, uh, let's get into the second third here, kind of at the halfway mark. Before we even got to that point, I took off the label because the label pretty much carries the whole cigar. Um, this is one I gotta give it. Shout out to Cigar Clowns. Uh, I forget how much I enjoy this cigar. Yeah, it's it's incredible. What are you what are you getting at this point?
SPEAKER_01Um, well, you know, uh I I I definitely like this. I don't this might be one of the first cigars in a while that we we disagree on the most. Okay. And I remember feeling about this the way about this when it was brand new. There's nothing wrong with it. It's not like I'm like, ew, this is there's a flavor in this that's gross or whatever. Uh, I just don't think that it's quite on my my my wavelength. Um uh but I I am enjoying it. Uh, I think that I I mentioned earlier, I was like, you know, is there something that seems like a saltine or whatever? And you were you were mentioning uh um cinnamon rolls. Yeah, I feel like if anything has changed to to both of those, is that take that flavor and add butter.
SPEAKER_00If that makes sense. Yeah, I could definitely see that. Um, because instead of like having more of the sweetness come forward, there's more of like a neutral doughy type of butteriness. I would agree. I think so. Yeah. Um now you're sure you're saying that about us differing on the cigar because it has nothing to do with Rob Roy, right? No. No, this will be interesting because yeah, normally our palettes are so aligned. I think that this cigar, it's not the most aggressive by far. And like you look at the rest of their portfolio, Rodeo Clown, far more peppery, far more punchy. This is a bit more approachable in their portfolio, I would say. But it also has a really excellent balance that leaves even as mild as it is, really rich and full. That cinnamon note, uh, the doughy note, I could see that butteriness and a little bit of baking spice. Um, I don't know. There's a lot going on. So I'm excited to see how this continues. Definitely has not turned too bitter and definitely hasn't amped up in sweetness.
SPEAKER_01So, yeah, I I think the the profile is nicely composed on this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. So, um, okay. Uh we we've talked a little bit about Tim Roth uh and his kind of presentation and Rob Roy's uh Liam Neeson. Um, what is something that you want to talk about in terms of this movie in its execution?
SPEAKER_01Well, this is fast-forwarding to the end a little bit, but I want to get there because this needs to be talked about. Okay. This has, I don't know if I can use the word best because I'm not a historian when it comes to um uh European uh martial arts, but I think this is one of my favorite sword fights in any movie, the one that happens at the end of the film, as Rob tries to settle his debt and settle a matter of honor with uh um uh Archibald, the man who did quite awful things to his family. Um I think the sword fight is great. You know, you see the characters move around in the space, they're not just you know you know, traversing a line like they're in mortal combat or something. Uh uh, you see the different styles that they're using because they're using different uh swords. So, you know, you kind of have uh uh even they sort of you know represent this, you know uh aristocratic, well-trained guy with the uh you could probably call it a rapier. I don't know if that's exactly the right thing. And then uh um Rob being uh uh a Scotsman, he's still using a period appropriate basket-hilted broadsword, and they you use those differently, right? So I like that aspect of it. They get tired, you see you know, wounds get traded, and then the way that the fight concludes is again with Rob exercising resolve, not superior fighting ability. And I just think that's that's awesome. And I don't think there's any music that plays during the fight. There's not, not until like the very, very just like clashing and breathing and the sound of their feet on the stone. Like, I don't know. I think this sword fight is bananas awesome.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm glad you brought that up because actually that was a question I had for you in terms of how because I'm very unfamiliar with sword play in terms of like that, like how accurate was it, and was that a big factor that they were trying to like push in this movie in terms of the combat?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it's hard to do uh to the degree the degree that I'm familiar, it's hard to do real sword fighting uh accurately in films because real sword fighting uh looks a little boring, you know.
SPEAKER_02Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_01A lot of it is about you know the uh position of the the blades against each other and you know how you can exercise leverage or try to get inside their line, so you know you try to get around where their guard is and stuff like that. So it's a lot of like technical stuff. They do way more thrusting in uh traditional uh sword fighting than you ever see in films because they want to see those big like arm swings and stuff, right? Yeah, that's what looks cool on camera. But uh, you know, even with that said, there is more accuracy, I think, in this fight than in a lot of okay uh films. Um, so yeah, I don't know. I I I appreciate the heck out of it.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I thought I thought it was interesting. I I think the last time we've seen something in a similar fashion in terms of like two figures without any music, and it's just based on sound and movement. Uh the fur well, I won't say the last thing, but the first thing that came to mind was open range and the gunfight that happens there. How they just they're like, we're gonna rely on yeah, the the the audio and the visuals minus the music on this. Um, so I did find that interesting. I I did turn uh to my brother though, and I was like, I kind of want to cut this to uh the the Phantom Menace Darth Maul music. I'm like, this is Qui-Gon before he returns Qui-Gon four years later. Um, but no, I found it interesting. I I but even then, like it didn't grab me, and I I don't I can't even put a finger on why it's not directly grabbing me of like intensity, and maybe it was a lack of investment in the characters. Um, I think that their acting is done well. I do appreciate the fact that like there's a nod to Rob getting challenged to a duel in the beginning of the movie, and he says first cut, and he cuts himself on the hand, and then that's cool, yeah, finishes it with doing a similar thing all the way. But I'll give it I'll give it for its like um its thought behind and stuff, but I don't know, it just it didn't really hold it for me, and I can't remember uh who hurt you as a child. Maybe I've just I've just seen too many like Errol Flynn films that I'm like well yeah, I mean that that's fair.
SPEAKER_01I mean uh uh there's definitely some um some sword fighting from that era that is even better than this.
SPEAKER_00Um but uh but also more hollow Hollywoodized, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um there's in particular movie that I can't think of the title. It's Tyrone Power, I think, and is it Basil Rathbone?
SPEAKER_00Is it Prisoner of Zenda?
SPEAKER_01That might be it. There's a great sword fight between them at the at the end of the movie.
SPEAKER_00Well, at any rate, yeah. Basil Rathbone has a really good fight in Robin Hood with Errol Flynn, but I don't know if that's the one.
SPEAKER_01That's not the one that I'm thinking of. Okay. At any rate, um, yeah, I mean, I I I really like that in this movie, and um, you know, for me again, like I said, because this is a movie that's not trying to do big battle scenes, right? You know, there's not this isn't really an action movie, right? Um, so when those two characters come together at the end, um, you know, there's a lot of personal stuff invested. Now, whether or not like you buy into the drama, you know, that's kind of your you know personal reaction. But I think that you know, just as far as we're talking about you know, storytelling construction, you know, that's that's a good solid climax of you know bringing the hero and villain together in in that fashion. I I think maybe one of the other things that I like, because I just said the word villain, and I realized you know there's multiple characters in this that can kind of there's some jerks serve that role. I mean, Brian Cox, the guy he plays Kalairn, you know, horrible piece of crap. Um, but I like that among the villains, it's not like they're all in lockstep. Like you can tell that the um the Marquise of Montrose, John Hurt's character, is suspicious of Archibald. And I like seeing that interplay between the bad guys, and I think they get a little bit more uh screen time and character value than is often given to the villains in movies like this.
SPEAKER_00I'll agree with that. Yes, 100%. They definitely develop it more. In fact, one of the more impactful scenes I feel like is when Archie goes into the Marquise's office and like thinks he has a way with talking to him, and then he gets completely put into his place and he has to like literally back out of the room. That was a good scene. Raker Dave says it's because Kurt uh Russell and Kevin Costner hurt him.
SPEAKER_01That's fair enough.
SPEAKER_00I'll at least say uh there's a lot of Kurt Russell movies I like, but Kevin Costner, it's hard to find. It's hard to find. Um, okay, so I feel like we have to talk about this before it gets too late. This movie goes off of a similar type of uh I I feel like a similar pattern that you find in epic films to where it's like things kind of get worse and worse and worse. But because it's so centric to just the characters and not like on a bigger, grander scale, then it just it seems like these characters can't catch a break. From him losing the money to what happens to his wife, to I think her name's Betty or Betsy.
SPEAKER_01Uh Betty, the you're talking about the the servant girl, right?
SPEAKER_00And her like getting pregnant by Archie, who's an absolute jerk. So then I had one thing I was like, wait, she just knows the the McGregors, like she just goes to their house as if they do it all the time. I was confused about that, but then she ends up hanging herself. I'm like, this is just one thing after another. Um, but for some characters, I'm like, I don't have enough investment for this to be impactful. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01Uh I I think that's fair to say. I mean, you're you're right about them the moment with is Betty Betsy.
SPEAKER_00I think it's Betty.
SPEAKER_01Uh, you know, you're right. Like, they don't really establish, like, you know, how or why she would know to show up at the McGregor's. Like, you know, that's that's that's just a thing that like, ah, because the script says so, you know, fine, whatever. Um uh I think for me. I yeah, I don't I don't know. I I I like all of these characters, even the evil ones. So just on you know, my personal reaction is that I am invested in in all of it. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00So but I feel like Betty's character, it's super tragic. It's like shows, I feel like it's a plot device for Archie. And it's like, okay, I get it. We just went through a horrible scene with him and McGregor's wife. This dude is that's like the lowest you can sink. So why do we have to continually do that and not really develop a character like Betty? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01It's a small thing, I guess, but I'm just like, I mean, she uh she's in the the the movie to serve a couple of purposes. For one, you know, through her, you get to see even more, you know, kind of uh learn more about how uh the kind of awful person that Archie is. He tells that story about his his mother and you know, all that kind of thing. So, you know, you get character information about your main villain through her storyline, but also um uh because she comes to the McGregors and is you know willing to attest to what she heard about uh Archie and Calairn discussing the thieving of the thousand pounds, you know, that gives you know the McGregor family hope to, you know, actually get like legal redress for what happened to them. And then her Betty killing herself then takes that option off the table and it forces um uh McGregor's wife to make a choice. And again, uh the drama is putting characters in situations where they make choices that reveal who they are, and uh, because she's forced with having to figure out what do we do now that that Betty is no longer able to testify. You see the way that his wife interacts with Kalarin in that barn, and uh, I don't know. For me, there's you know, character and uh um narrative value about the way that Betty interacts with the story and these characters, so yeah, some things are a little clunky, but for me on that level it functions.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay, yeah. Um in that in that exchange, so they learn that, and I feel like it's an added weight on to uh Rob's wife, aside from what just happened to her, like also the loss of of Betty hanging herself is like an added thing that's going on. Um this lady goes through it, like she gets the worst, I feel like the brunt of it. What I don't understand is like, okay, so Rob gets taken prisoner, and then he makes this grandiose escape, and then he like comes back and he's like, All right, I'm gonna go ahead and fight this this duel. But during their conversation, she's like, Well, I don't want like our kids to basically not have a father, and he's like they talk and talk, and then she's like, No, no, no, I'm okay though, even though all this happened. I was like, Wait, wait, she's the one that got taken advantage of. Why is she trying to cheer up Rob Roy? I'm like, this seems like a a a wrong in like power dynamic. I'm like, isn't it? Shouldn't it be him being like, I'm gonna try to help, and also it's gonna be okay, versus her. She's like, Mary is her name, like continually telling Rob, like, no, no, no, don't worry, you gotta cheer up. It's fine, fine. I'm like, you're the one that got all this bad stuff happen. Why is Rob being depressed about this? And you're having to, I don't know. It was weird. I was like, this seems like a misbalance.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting. Perspective. I don't know if I want to say that you're wrong. I mean f uh maybe I just accept this the story again because you know I first saw this when I was a teenager.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Sure.
SPEAKER_01So there's a lot about it that I probably accept at face value, but the it it seems to me that the whole point of that is that you know it's reinforcing that theme about honor, where you know Rob says to their sons honor is a man's gift to himself, you know. And he in that moment feels like uh, you know, if I had you know discarded my honor, I could have done a thing that would have protected my wife in a way that didn't happen because I was trying to uphold my honor. And uh we learn through dialogue that Mary, uh, you know, even though she uh uh you know clashes with him about his sense of honor, she says, uh, I can't remember the exact line of dialogue, but you know, something to the effect of, you know, you wouldn't be yourself if you know, you wouldn't be the man that I love if you didn't have this honor. So yes, you know, for me that scene reinforces not only that um you know Rob is feeling conflicted about having tried to exercise his honor, she comes in to you know, reinforce, you know, if you had not done, if you had done the dishonorable thing, you wouldn't be the man that I love, right? Yeah so for me that's kind of what what that scene is about. I don't think that there's any real sense that like Rob is not uh you know giving enough credence to the way that she was wronged.
SPEAKER_00Well, okay, so and on the front that he goes back and he seeks basically justice for it is good, like that's all I'm on board for, yes. But like she's gone through these traumatic events, and when he finally comes back, he doesn't even like say hello, he's just standing by the fire brooding. And on one front, it's like okay, if you're trying to illustrate the heaviness that that is on him, I understand that, but also you spent enough time trying to give Mary a story arc, right? And it's not just that. So I feel like it's a little bit underdeveloped, or her concept of like, okay, so why don't you go to the other nobleman? Um, which I'm trying, I'm blinking on his Duke of Argyle, the Duke of Argyll, and basically tell him what happened, and he's like, No, I can't do that either. And then eventually she just does it for him, which eventually saves him. And it's like, okay, I understand the honor thing, but I don't think it's dishonorable to go tell him, like, look, I'm just looking out for you because this guy is basically a snake, right? And so he solved a lot of problems.
SPEAKER_01I that's the I I think that's fair, you know. Like I said, I think this is one of those things in the movie that I just kind of accept at face value. Okay, but um, I I think I understand that criticism, like that makes sense. I could see a version of this story that's reworked to kind of uh accommodate that idea more. Um, so I think that's fair.
SPEAKER_00But I will say on a on a positive front, the impactful scenes, uh, I can't fault the acting of like like a Tim Roth, even Mary, like they they do a really good job, and I was pleasantly happy that the accents were pretty darn good.
SPEAKER_01As far as I can tell, sure, yeah. Yeah, I I think uh I I want to talk since we're we're just kind of discussing Rob and Mary. Um I mentioned at the start of the show that I really like their relationship, the way it's portrayed on screen. Um, you know, this is a uh a married couple that's roughly in their early 40s. Um and uh you know, I don't think that you see that uh on screen a whole lot of the time in the sense that uh you know, they're not like you know the boring mom and dad kind of thing. You know, these are people with strong ideas, strong opinions, they talk to each other about it. Sometimes they get a little testy with each other. It feels very like you know believable to me on that level. Um, but you also see it like uh not just through the way the story is written, but through the characters' performances, how insanely in love these two people are, like how deeply they care about each other, and they're kind of hot for each other at the same time. And that's another cool thing that movies don't do a lot. Like, you know, there's a lot of uh uh vitality to this relationship, and you get to see that several times. And I just think you know, for uh a movie like this to take the time at all to like really make it matter that these two characters are you know, you know, really, really into each other, um, because you know, the the main affront, the whole matter of honor thing that you come full circle on with the sword fight at the end is based on these two characters and how they feel about each other. And I think this movie does a superb job with those two.
SPEAKER_00I I would agree. I feel like the not needing of I don't know, the the main female like woman lead to be this kind of like Vittoria Secret model is is is been lost recently. Um so yeah, I would completely agree with that, and I do think that um they do give it more time than you see in a lot of these movies, especially revenge type movies or justice type movies. And I think even as we've talked about Braveheart, I mean that's every Mel Gibson movie is a revenge movie, and so many times that that that uh is the focus without giving any credence. So they do I between them and the relationship between Archie and the Marquise, they do give good deserved time that I would agree with 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And uh like I said, I you know, I I broadly enjoy all the performances in this movie, but uh, I think I really noticed it when I re-watched it last week. Like Jessica Lang is so good in this, like that scene where um, you know, the awful thing has just been done to her, and the British soldiers are escaping across the lock, and uh Rob's brother, I forget his name off the top of my head, comes running at the last you know, way too late to do anything about it, and she has to tell him, you know, Rob will not know. I will if I can bear it to be done, you can bear it to be silent or whatever. She her performance in that scene is amazing.
SPEAKER_00No, I would agree. I would agree, and that actually brings me to one more topic I definitely want to talk about. Rob's brother, I hate him in this movie.
SPEAKER_01I yeah, he's the worst, he's a knucklehead, and it feels a little, you know, this maybe be a criticism I might agree with you with because he he feels like he's not just a knucklehead, but that he's written to be a knuckled head so he can cause trouble in the yes, yes, I think that's I think that's fair.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and he's also I don't like when movies do this either. When you have someone such a knucklehead, in your word, um, and he also causes the death and the horrible things like that could have not happened if he had just done something different, and then when the they die themselves, you they have this dramatic music, it's supposed to be impactful. It's like no, like this guy just like cost the lives of so many of these people. It's like with the whole situation where like, no, we're not gonna take the shot, let's take the hills. No, I'm gonna take a shot. Like those types of things. I'm like, I don't really care that he's dead. I mean, it's sad for Rob and the family, I guess. But I just what about the two guys that just died?
SPEAKER_01I I agree with you. There's the I don't think the movie does a good job of trying to make that guy endearing so that you can also feel sad when he gets killed. Yes, it's like, no, he was a dummy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, um, the last thing I also would say that we haven't talked about, which I would also give it good marks for, is that it's a beautiful movie in terms of landscape and set.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, when you're shooting in the highlands of Scotland, it's hard not to just be like, yeah, that's beautiful. But uh, you know, uh, this is we've talked about this before, but I miss we uh actually when we talked about Last of Mohicans, it was the same thing. Um, you know, I I miss movies that did this kind of thing where they're like, this is a historical thing, we're gonna go on location, we're shooting on film, you know, with you know, pretty classic, straightforward cinematography. Like it's a treat. I I I I I love stuff like this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It was it was definitely in terms of landscape, it was a feast for the eyes for sure. Um, was there anything else you want to cover before going to the final third?
SPEAKER_01Um, I I mentioned this a little bit, but you know, just I'm um because you know, because we can. I just I I like I said I love the use of language in this movie. And uh uh I said this at the at the beginning, but like I I think I learned this word from this movie, but like skullduggery, like that's a that's a deep pull, like you know, and uh uh but there's there's lots of other little things like that that it just tells me that the writers were paying attention. For example, there's that opening scene, uh again, a gorgeous shot. You kind of you know you're in the uh highlands, and uh Rob and his clan just you they uh patiently let them walk slowly towards camera from the distance, right? So you just kind of kind of get soaked in the whole thing. There's the music playing and whatnot. And uh they're talking about you know, chasing down these guys who stole the cattle, and uh, I think Eric Stoltz's character says something about like they're they're uh they're not gonna have enough time, and Rob says, not stood here, we won't, and then gets to the business of chasing after him again. Just yeah, you know, little subtle dialogue choices like that for me just give this movie a lot of texture that I appreciate.
SPEAKER_00So I would agree. I think one of the more humorous versions of that, though, uh, is like at one point him and Mary are in a like heated argument, and Rob has enough of this. The line is something to the effect of like, perhaps I'll go find a sheep that bleats a little less bitter. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01She says, or will you find a sheep to comfort you? And he says, Well, if I do, hopefully it won't bleat so bitter.
SPEAKER_00Like, wow, that that's a line. That's a line to use.
SPEAKER_01Uh, the one other thing I will say, uh, there is one character in this movie that I think is, I mean, he's there to serve a plot function, fine. I I think that he's probably like the most like stereotypical, like 90s sort of like, you know, we want a tough guy, and that's Guthrie, the dude with the greasy long hair that uh oh yeah eventually uh kills in the uh pub. He's he's not a great character.
SPEAKER_00No, no, he he I feel like is that he walked off the set of like three musketeers done by Disney and was like, what else can I do that fits in this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like there's like there's a bit in that scene where Rob says we have no quarrel, and he's like, That can be remedied, and you're like, Oh, come on. Yes, so yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_00About that, like rum and rum and winches and winches. It's like where did this dude come from? Um, okay, so let's uh talk final third of uh of Goldie Grace. I feel like it has moved away from the that butteriness, that that cinnamon. It's getting definitely more savory to me at towards the end.
SPEAKER_01I think I agree with that. Yeah, um, you know, maybe even like uh a hint of pepperiness now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like a black crack pepper type deal. Yeah, I would agree. Um, I smoked this before it was released. I smoked it in the Lancero. I smoked it in this, and I think there was one other size. And I think maybe it's just a richness of flavor. I mean, Lanceros typically have a richer flavor, um, but it has a good balance, I think, of that kind of like smaller ring gauge, but also really heavy, full smoke. For me, I would say it's medium strength at most, full in flavor, full in body, which I appreciate. And I think that a lot of people who tend to like stronger cigars, there is a sweet spot you can find, even if it's a medium strength cigar, um, on something like this, it still satisfies that weightiness of smoke. Yeah, control.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and uh, you know, even with the the palette changes that this has gone through that we've talked about, uh, I still think that it remains uh like it feels in balance with itself.
SPEAKER_00So yes, yes. Okay, so let's go ahead and write down for Goldie Grace on a scale from one to ten, where would this land for you? All right. I'm going with oh hey, look at that.
SPEAKER_01Well, we're in agreement after all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I think it's a it's a solid cigar. If I uh had not smoked rodeo clown stuff, which is definitely in the eights for me, um, I would say it's up there. But yeah, no, it's good. It's a good solid seven for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, like I said, this you know maybe isn't my exact flavor pro exact favorite flavor profile, but it doesn't do anything wrong. There's nothing that's like weird or off-putting about it, it's well balanced. So you know, going lower than seven would feel like unfair.
SPEAKER_00No, a hundred percent. It's great. And I will say for anyone who is searching kind of for that like more intense first cigar of the day, this is an excellent choice. Okay, for scale from one to ten for Rob Roy. Where did this movie land for you?
SPEAKER_01Oh, Eric, I knew you were gonna do this to me. I gave it a six. It's eight and a half. Come on. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, hey, I I mean, I will I will say this, I'll go on record by saying this is twice as good as Tombstone.
SPEAKER_01There you go.
SPEAKER_00No, but I am glad that I I watched it because I know you've talked about it a lot. Um, it's always one of those movies, like, oh yeah, no, I didn't I haven't seen it. So um I I did, I was glad we watched it. I just had a few issues with it.
SPEAKER_01I know. Yeah, it it's amusing to me that the 90s is the decade in which you were born, and you just don't like 90s movies that much. What's up with that?
SPEAKER_00I tend to actually like 80s movies more than 90s. I that is true.
SPEAKER_01But 80s is a strong decade.
SPEAKER_00I mean, there's some pretty yeah, I mean, I can't argue with that. Um, okay, so this was the first movie out of whatever we call adventure, swashbuckling, sword play, yeah, uh, all that sort of thing. We'll be announcing what we're gonna be doing next week. Um, but please reach out on social media or on the podcast if you have any ideas. We'd love to know. We'd love to cover it. Uh, and maybe also have another controversial episode where one of us enjoys it, one of us doesn't. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we'll see.
SPEAKER_00Thank you guys so much for watching tonight. Curtis, thanks as always. It's great to be back and looking forward to next week when we're on. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Cheers, everybody.
SPEAKER_00All right, everyone have a great night.
