Cigars and Cinema Podcast
Every cigar is smoked in thirds: First third, second, and final, just as every Movie is performed in three acts. Join Eric Drazin and Mike Coleman to delve into the world of cigars and movies as they analyze, break down, and critique cigars and films as each progress.
Cigars and Cinema Podcast
"Star Wars Week 1: The Original Trilogy." Ep. 106 5/7/26
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Eric and Curtis start a new series! In honor of May the 4th and Star Wars Month, They tackle the original trilogy of Star Wars while analyzing the NEW El Mago Miami Art Deco Toro! Stay tuned for the Prequel Trilogy... and... the other one! Coming soon!
El Mago Art Deco LINK:
https://oakglentobacconist.com/product/el-mago-miami-art-deco-edition-toro-6x52/
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https://oakglentobacconist.com/product/ogt-monthly-subscription/
Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema. Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's journey into another episode of Smoke and Screen. I have a three of the custom cigars each month at undeniable sites. Join the community and smoke with us on the Oakland Tobacchist channel as we delve into the written experience of 15 craft cigars. And many cigars and by full list is custom made just for our membership. If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the subscription and a full host of these cigars, visit us at www.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars. Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Cigars in Cinema Podcast. This is the podcast where we smoke cigars, unabashedly commentating, in some cases, giving extreme opinions on film and entertainment. This is going to be a very special show because I know we're both looking forward to this. Uh coming to you from the East Coast, uh, I am Eric Drazen from OGT Cigars, and on the other side of the country on the West Coast, Curtis Bailey. We're both Star Wars nerds. Curtis, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_03Happy revenge of the fifth, baby.
SPEAKER_00Revenge of the fifth. Revenge of the fifth. How did you uh celebrate your May the 4th be with you day?
SPEAKER_03Uh I wish I could say that I like sat down and watched Star Wars or something like that, but uh frankly, it was yesterday was just busy with real life stuff. So I didn't really get to do anything fun for it. So this is this is the big celebration of doing this show with you tonight.
SPEAKER_00As I've mentioned before, um, I've got three kids. My son has reached the age of like major like interest into Star Wars, mythos characters, side characters, the whole nine yards. So, under his request, uh, we ended up watching Empire Strikes Back, then uh Return of the Jedi back to back in one sitting. Okay, so and then my uh middle child, uh, she made uh homemade blue milk to go along with the movie. So nice. There we go. It was a whole extravaganza. Um, as I see, we've got RJ commenting tonight. As always, guys, please drop down your comments. What are you smoking tonight? What are you enjoying? I would love to know. Also, your comments on what we're gonna be talking about tonight. Uh, this is sort of a new series that we're doing, and it's sort of a journey into the Star Wars mythos. Um, but always the show is always that much more engaging when you do just that. So drop down those comments, and I will pull them up and uh have you become a part of our uh conversation tonight. So RJ is saying, hello, Eric and Curtis. Looking forward to the show tonight. I'm enjoying a Stallone midnight ride. Ooh, very nice. Some strong crystal light iced tea. Very nice. There you go. RJ's the uh the expert in uh pairing cigars with with iced tea. It's been pretty cool to hear different stuff like that. Um, what about you? Are you are you pairing anything tonight?
SPEAKER_03Um, I have a couple options here, and you maybe since you've uh smoked this before, uh you can tell me what you think is gonna be uh a better pairing. I've got on one end of the spectrum single malt Woodhoff 12, and on the other end, I just picked this up, I haven't tried it yet. It is a Redwood Umpire um bourbon and rye blend. Ooh, very nice. Pretty uncommon. Not a lot of distilleries do that. I know of like one other off the top of my head, and it's uh high west makes it.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So what's what's the um what's the ABV on that redwood? That is a good question.
SPEAKER_0345.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I honestly think that might work better with tonight. Okay. Um, I know that Buna Hobbin's not even though it comes from I um ILED, it's not Petey, but it definitely has that really like rich, rich, robust flavor to it. I think the redwood might go better, but I don't know. Maybe you can even try them both and see which one works better. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Well, we'll start, we'll start with this one.
SPEAKER_00Nice. So um, I have to apologize. There was a bit of a snafu with um in the order of Star Wars that we're going, and that was on me. So tonight we're actually gonna be talking about the real Star Wars trilogy, the OG Star Wars trilogy, that being the original New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. Next week, we will then be delving into the prequels. So just just to make certain everyone understands that. Um let's see here. RJ saying, try to get into some bourbon, but have no idea about bourbons. Um, I mean, that might be a question for you, Curtis, being the whiskey Batman.
SPEAKER_03Right. Well, um, I mean, you're kind of spoiled for choice right now. Bourbon uh has always been uh you know popular, at least you know, kind of in my adult lifetime, but it's really exploded in the last like five, ten years. Yes. So um, you know, you can uh you know throw a dart in a liquor store and find a good bourbon, basically. But um, you know, uh I my my recommendation would be like if you're trying to find something that's um you know that you're going to enjoy, um, you'll probably have your best luck going to whatever liquor store you trust and talk to the folks there. They'll be able to tell you either from personal experience what they like, what's new or interesting, what's different, what's a good place to start. Uh, and they'll also be able to tell you about what's popular, and maybe that's a good place to start too.
SPEAKER_01True.
SPEAKER_03So um, you know, I could name five bourbons that I think are really interesting right now. I don't know if you can get your hands on them or if if you would, you know, so um that that's my recommendation, really, for anything like this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And I would agree. In fact, I would also kind of like adding to that, because we're in the situation that Curtis is mentioning with really good bourbons, you also don't have to break the bank to have a good one. No, that's true, which is really cool. Um, there's a lot of good $30, $40 bourbons out there. I would say more advice I would give to anyone about bourbons, I'm like, there's a few I would maybe stay away from. Um, but yeah, so the whole world uh of that is right ahead of you, so it's an exciting time. Um, let's see here. Alex saying, Hey guys, tuning in for the first time, enjoying a Perdomo Legacy Belicoso Maduro. Well, thanks for jumping on, Alex.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_00Yes, 100%. Dapper Prophet saying the real Star Wars trilogy, correct terminology. Yes, I agree, and I sense too, like where I want to see, like I think everyone's gonna agree that the original is the best, but like, do you count the other ones? Do the others are do they rub you the wrong way so much that they don't count? Like some of the stuff we gotta talk about. Indeed. So, uh, but tonight, this is gonna be the last cigar we smoke until the next variety pack uh set. So, for those who maybe saw that I posted earlier, we have a new variety pack that's going out this week. This is a full lineup of bangers, I have to say, because we have our exclusive uh Tri-Barber Pole Fairplay, which we are sold out of outside of the membership. Really good, creamy, sweet, excellent blending of three different tobaccos on the top. We have the new Elmago Renegade, which was my personal favorite from the show, out of the El Mago lineup. So I had to put it in there. And then in the middle there, it's a cigar called the Alakazam. This is a super, super limited Habano, also from Elmago, that we got a small allocation for. So we're sending out to the variety. Uh, that white label is the new Blackwork Studio Rorschach Toro. They've released it in a shorter bousto. The Toro, in my opinion, is far better balanced. And then finally, that Cigar Clown cigar on the end that has now been reproduced and then labeled. So it's an amazing pack. Check out OGT Variety Pack. Jump on it now so that you can smoke with us here on the channel. Tonight, though, we are gonna be smoking something from the El Mago sampler we featured last week, which we have like maybe five or so of these left. So if you missed out, this is your chance to still jump on it. We're gonna be smoking the one that's majority magenta, known as the Miami Art Deco. So this cigar is released in one size. Uh, it is released in a six by 52 Toro. It has an Ecuadorian Habano wrapper over a broadleaf, which I believe is Connecticut Broadleaf binder, and the Nicaraguan fillers. I'm excited for this because I've been smoking these nonstop all last week, and this will be Curtis's first time enjoying an Omagos cigar.
SPEAKER_03That's right, never had them before.
SPEAKER_00So super exciting. Uh, Art Deco comes in this tubo as majority of them do, which is a really cool presentation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're fun. I mean, the uh the colors feel very on point for Miami.
SPEAKER_00Sure, yes, I could see that 100%. Yeah, and uh yeah, I just I'm really impressed with this. Their whole portfolio, you know how like uh certain cigar brands, you're like, oh yeah, I could see this is an AJ cigar, like there's a signature to it. Um El Mongo has that themselves in their portfolio, which I really like, so I'm excited to jump into it and explore this brand together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, so let's go ahead and do a cold a cut and a cold draw here. Oh interesting.
SPEAKER_03Um good burst of sweetness, a little peanut-y, like almost like a peanut brittle kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I can definitely see it. Like peanut brittle and like dried raspberry, like a dehydrated raspberry. Really interesting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's nice.
SPEAKER_00Um, all right, so let's uh go ahead and get this lit up and see where it starts. Every cigar leaves an impression.
SPEAKER_03However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00So enjoy your cigar as you light it up. Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
SPEAKER_03In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface. So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
SPEAKER_00Nice, got the appropriate cigar torch going.
SPEAKER_03I know I've already done that gag, but I couldn't resist.
SPEAKER_00No, for anyone who saw the reel that we posted on Cigars and Cinema, uh, that's a shout out to Curtis. He edited and put that together. So thanks for adding that much more to it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was fun. I couldn't resist.
SPEAKER_00All right, so right out the gate, really interesting notes. Um, you almost detect like zero spicy element without the retrohale. It's got like two different palettes going on in terms of like sweetness, um a little bit of like I I don't know if peanut bread are really like the power suggestion, but I get a touch of like peanut butter on the smoking aspect, and then a bit of like pepper on the retrohale. Okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_03In addition to that, I feel like I'm getting something that makes me want to say like a uh a hay. Okay. Or maybe you know, light vegetable kind of thing. No, I think it's more hay.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Well, and something interesting about this, especially in their Habano too, and in their Sumatra, their tobacco has the sensation of when I'm smoking it, it almost causes my palate to salivate. And I've used the word like has this like uncuousness to it. It's got this like juiciness to it that I don't really know how else to kind of like articulate. And it's also something I don't see in a lot of cigars out there. So a lot of the cigars have that quality that I really enjoy.
SPEAKER_03I do feel like I'm fighting the draw on this one a little bit, so I might.
SPEAKER_00Okay, open it a touch. Okay, so while Curtis is doing that real quick, I'm gonna go ahead and pull uh a few comments here. Uh, let's see here. Dapper Prophet saying, I remember when Eagle Rare was $20 a bottle. Yeah, those days were long gone. Yeah. Let's see here. Alex is saying, I agree with you, Eric. No need to break the bank. Wild Turkey 101 is one of the bourbons that is affordable and very good.
SPEAKER_03I I I concur with that. I think 101 punches above its weight, and it's not uh expensive at all.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no. It's a it's a really good one. Uh RJ saying the new variety pack looks awesome. Thank you. Um, I am super excited about it. Like I said, some really rare cigars in here, some that I definitely wanted to kind of like add that people might not be able to enjoy as much as like the Alkazam or the fair play. Um, but also like we just came from the PCA trade show. So I wanted the opportunity to smoke some of those new cigars coming in. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Um, let's see here. Dapper Prof says he has to go back to work, so he's gonna throw his opinion in right now uh and deal with it as you like. He says, Here's my argument against the prequels. I've come across almost no one who came to them as fully grown adults and thought they were great. You had to grow up with them or be a kid. Not that kids' movies are inherently bad, they can also be far uh for adults and kids, but prequels are just kids, teens, nostalgia. Um, I'm not gonna completely disagree with him. I think that there's quite a bit of truth to that, and also I grew up watching them, so it's hard for me not to be biased on that. Um, I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03Uh, I I think I agree with that too. Um, I mean, we can see it if you pay attention to the way that people talk about stuff like Star Wars, you know, on in social media and in um uh, you know, kind of film analysis people that do stuff on YouTube and that kind of thing. Um George Lucas in uh the late 90s wrote those movies for an audience that was supposed to be kids primarily. And the kids that grew up with it um hold it near and dear to their hearts in a way that fans of the original trilogy, you know, us uh you know, boomers and gen X folks, uh, you know, don't typically have the same feelings uh for the the prequels, but you know, in a big way, at least you know, in primary intent, it wasn't made for us, right? Right. So yeah, I I think that he's he's kind of on point with that.
SPEAKER_00But I would also say that there is an aspect of that that also rings true to when you saw the originals, too. If you saw them in theater, uh, because I feel like that aspect of nostalgia or kind of a growth as those movies were being made can also be said about the true the original ones, too. Yeah, yeah. So regardless, tonight we are talking about the original trilogy, that being Star Wars. Um, there are a lot, I assume too, Curtis, you and I are probably gonna be talking a lot about like behind-the-scene facts about this movie as well. Um, one of them, which I wonder if you might be able to elaborate a little bit on, would be the fact that this originally was just called Star Wars and not a new hope attached. Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Uh when the film was originally released, uh, the crawl, the famous, you know, uh uh you know words that scroll up that give you the preamble to the story. Um, any version that you can watch now, at the top of that crawl, it says episode four, a new hope. That was not in the original film release. Okay, it got added relatively early. I can't remember the exact date. Uh, but you know, in the late 70s, movies stayed in theaters, especially if they were popular, like this one, for a very long time.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03You know, now a extremely popular movie might be in theaters for six weeks. Um, Star Wars was in theaters for months.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03And uh sometime within that first year, I believe, is when the a new hope bit got added because he's like, Oh, people are bought into this, I'm gonna get money to make more of them. Let's set the setting even a little bit deeper and throw in that, like, hey, this is part of an ongoing story. So that's my basic understanding.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Well, and and what I find interesting too is the way the movie concludes in the throne room in Yavin, it's kind of like it's it's capsulated. It's like this is the movie, yep, and there you go. So, um, I do think that's interesting. I think that if we're looking at this as a snapshot, as a shot, as a whole, and I know we're gonna we're talking about three different movies. We're talking about an original epic trilogy, so I think we're gonna be doing a lot of jumping around, yeah. But I feel like uh Empire Strikes Back accomplishes what so few movies can do, and we talked about this uh quite a while ago, and that is making a sequel that's just as good, if not better, than the first one that came out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh Empire Special. Um, you know, and uh in in in some ways, uh it wasn't immediately uh regarded that way, you know. The we'll talk about this, of course, in a couple weeks, but um uh the Last Jedi is a movie that divided fans, right? For that reason, and yeah, well, but uh Empire was kind of like that too. It's okay. A lot of that is forgotten now because it's just so wrapped up into the canon, and you know, revisionist takes basically, you know, everybody thinks that that's the best one now. Um, and I might agree with them, but uh, you know, especially because like the story hadn't concluded yet, right? Imagine trying to put yourself in 1980 when this is now only the second Star Wars movie, and we don't know how the story concludes. It's kind of a weird, you know, middle chapter, you know, taken in that context. Um, but uh I don't think that there's much of a doubt that um uh Irvin Kirschner, who directed um uh Empire, is a better filmmaker, probably better at working with actors uh than George Lucas is, because George Lucas kind of infamously is not great on set with giving um you know kind of insightful um the type of feedback that actors want to get, right? He's not very good at that. Um, and he'd probably be the first to tell you that too. So it's not like it's uh something that he thinks he's knocking out of the park. But um yeah, uh plus you know, the obviously there was an increase in budget for Empire. Um uh it expands the mythos of uh you know Darth Vader and and Luke. It introduces the Imperial March, which is one of the coolest things written for any character ever in anything. True. Um, so yeah, Empire Empire kind of rules.
SPEAKER_00It does, it does. Um, okay, we got a slew of comments here. I want to pull up real quick as we kind of delve into this very quickly. Daniel saying, I think you have could have really enjoyed the prequel as an adult, it's just rougher by today's standard. Um, true. I will also say it's not as rough by today's Star Wars standard. So we'll give it that.
SPEAKER_03Well, and we'll talk about that point more in next week's show when we do the prequel trilogy because I was an adult when the prequels came out.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. Now, for anyone confused, the confusion's on my side. I'm really sorry. We're actually talking about the OG, the real Star Wars series tonight. Uh, next week we'll be talking about prequels, and then after that, the dreaded final three. All right, I see that we have Nick in saying late, but I made it. Nick, I know that you'll have a lot of opinions on this, so please drop down your comments. Shout out to Alex saying, just purchased my first sticks from OGT, and now a Star Wars show. Love Star Wars of my entire life, original trilogy changed the world. Thank you so much, Alex. I really appreciate it. Thank you for the support. Uh, and yes, we're talking about all things Star Wars tonight. Um, what I didn't realize, and I had mentioned this at the beginning of the show, is we watched yesterday, uh, we watched Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi back to back. Now, a week prior, um, we watched A New Hope because like I I've been showing these movies to my kids ever since they were born, but like now they're the age of like, oh, I can connect the dots and understand the story. And one of the craziest things I didn't realize is the time between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back and Luke, or I should say Mark Hamill's car accident that happened in between. I was like, did they write the Wampa like like fight attack in because of that? Because he like looks all scratched up and different.
SPEAKER_03That's that's that's my understanding, is yeah, but you know, um, I I don't know if they enhanced it with makeup, you know, because you see he's in that recovery room uh in the back to tank, you know, the big liquid thing that's you know helping heal him, and you see scars on his face. I don't know if those are Mark Hamill's actual scars or if they're you know modeled after what his scars look like, or they they were. There and they enhanced like I don't know the details on that, but yeah, he smashed up his face pretty good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. And I think it's most evident, it really got me thinking in the scene immediately after the back to the tank, and he's sitting, and uh, there's that kind of comical scene that we all know about who's scruffy looking. But I'm like looking at his face, and I'm like, you know, I think that had something to do with it. So I myself was connecting dots, even though I've seen this movie, I don't know, 40 something times, right? It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03Uh, one thing I want to talk about is the way that my view on this trilogy has changed with time and you know, kind of like my maturing artistic taste and all that kind of thing. Because, you know, when I was 10, if you asked me which of these three was my favorite, I probably would have said Return of the Jedi. Because it has the big space bottle and a bunch of cool monsters, and you know, like lightsaber fight, right? Yeah, yeah. It's got all the whiz-bang uh action stuff, and I still very much like that movie for those reasons. But uh, you know, now it's definitely feels like the the the lesser of the the three. Uh, and it's that's I say that primarily for two things. One, uh, when George Lucas was writing the script for this, he didn't know if he was gonna be able to uh to make the whole thing, you know, it was too big of a script to fit into one movie. So he's like, All right, I'll take the first act and rework some stuff and make that the movie, which is why the Death Star is in a new hope. It was supposed to be only at the end of the whole story, right? Yeah, so he was when he got time to this one, he's like, I don't know, Death Star 2.0. So, you know, that's probably not great. I mean, I still love the look of that, you know, like partially constructed Death Star, and of course, seeing it actually fire on like you know the capital ships and that big battle and stuff. It's awesome, love it, it's still super cool. But like, you know, if we're being honest about like how that functions narratively, that's a little weird. And then the other big thing for me is that Han Solo has almost no growth or anything meaningful to do, he's just kind of spinning his wheels in this movie, and he he he he they they make Han Solo just like a little bit lame in Return of the Jedi.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he definitely is removed from like the main conflict of the film, I think. Yeah, for sure. I would agree. I mean, growing up, and it's it was it was it's the flashiest, I guess, uh, of them. It's interesting how the entire movie is kind of like so segmented out, whether it's like you got Jabba, and then after that, you have a little bit of Endor, and then you have the Emperor at the end. Um, I still I think nostalgia plays a big factor in it. I would, if I was hard pressed, I would say, in terms of order of favorites, and I would like to know what you guys think too. Put this in the comments. What is your favorite from best to mid to least? I would say for me, it's empire, return of the Jedi, a new hope. What about you, Curtis?
SPEAKER_03Uh well, like I just mentioned, I put Jedi last. I feel like I I vacillate on which one I think is my favorite or the best between a new hope and empire. Because obviously, we were just talking about how Empire is you know nicer made, nicer looking. You know, it has so many of the favorite famous moments that we love. It deepens the lore with um Yoda and the things that he has to say about what the force is. Um, uh so you know, all of that is fantastic. But you know, if you just put everything in a vacuum, you know, Empire didn't exist in 1977, nothing like this existed in 1977. Star Wars A New Hope is just so fresh and uh uh uh singular, and uh I I like that it embraces being a little bit corny and uh you know it's it it introduced us to this thing where George Lucas took World War II dog fights and samurai movies and westerns and Buck Rogers and just put it in a blender and kaboom, you got this new thing that was unlike what people were used to seeing out of sci-fi in the in the 70s. So yeah, I still have so much affection for the first one. Um I feel like it's hard for me to choose between those two.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, no, 100%. Totally makes sense. Uh, let's see here. A few comments on that as well. Um, Nick is saying Ford uh was checked out, meaning from Return of the Jedi, and I actually wanted Solo to die. That's right, he did, which is I think a little bit evident. And I also would say another hindrance about that movie is that it feels like uh Carrie Fisher might be checked out for other reasons in that movie, perhaps a little bit. Um Alex is saying uh don't forget Princess Leia in Return of the Jedi first crush. Um, yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, it's hard to argue with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. Well, and what is your your take on the biggest argument I've always heard from other Star Wars fans is they get annoyed that the Imper was taken down by teddy bears. Uh, what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03I I'm not too too bothered by that. Um, you know, that's one of those things that's uh from the movie that because I just accepted it at face value when I was a kid, that like I don't feel the the need to kind of over overthink that, you know. Like I think they established well enough in the movie that the um the ewaks are not like this deadly force. They have to try really hard and figure out tricks to be able to, you know, actually, you know, destroy some of the empire vehicles and stuff like that. So it's not like they're way overdoing it. But um, that was part of George Lucas's political angle on Star Wars, which I think is something that doesn't get talked about a whole lot. But he was hugely influenced by the Vietnam War, where this big technologically superior uh force went in and invaded a country that was like you know, a bunch of I don't want to say peasants necessarily, but they were definitely, you know, they didn't have a standing army in the same way that the United States did. And uh they were definitely technologically uh underdogs, and you could argue that they they beat us. So George Lucas was definitely looking at Star Wars through the lens of the Empire is the United States, and the rebels are the rebels and their allies are the Viet Cong. Okay. Um so uh uh and and he he he uses that theme, you know, several times throughout these the the saga films. Um, so the fact that the Ewoks are in there to represent that idea just works for me because you know he's trying to make it about something. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think I'm in a similar boat in terms of growing up and liking the movie as a kid to where it was never something as glaring to me. I think maybe if like this movie was fresh off the boat in theaters now, this is the newest Star Wars movie. I might be like, hmm, this is interesting. But uh honestly, I feel like a lot of the times, majority of the Star Wars movies you watch, if it is the brand new thing out, there's definitely a more level of criticism versus the blind acceptance that you just did with the movies.
SPEAKER_03Right, yeah, and that's that that that's you know, I feel like that's a little bit inevitable. Um, you know, I mean, I still try to put on a little bit of that childlike wonder hat when I go to see stuff like this in theaters, but you can't you can't always you know make a perfect recreation of the way that you think when you're 10, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, right, right. Nick is saying uh originally they were supposed to be Wookiees, which I I knew I had heard before. Um, you get that in Revenge of the Sith, which is cool. Um, but I don't necessarily, yeah, I don't necessarily hate the the concept either. No, um, let's see here. Uh Mag Lee 5 is saying, Do you know Return of the Jedi is the only Star Wars movie producer Gary Kurtz was not involved in? He had a different uh ending, and oh yeah, ending, which Luke turned to the dark side and no teddy bears. That would have been a very different movie. I know too that originally the concept was revenge of the Jedi, and they thought that was too negative for Jedi to be seeking revenge. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So uh speaking of that whole revenge return of the Jedi thing, uh I don't want to end tonight's episode without commenting on one of my favorite things in Return of the Jedi, which is um the uh the emotional climax with uh father and son, you know, that that duel where uh you know Vader is trying to tempt Luke to lash out at anger and he learns about Leia and he says, Well, if you won't turn to the dark side, then perhaps she will. And Luke goes into a rage and nearly kills him. Uh that uh um that there's that one tracking shot as Luke is pushing Vader back, and you hear the chor voices rise in the score. It's so good, anyway.
SPEAKER_00It is so good, it is so good. It's one of those like optimum levels that Star Wars hits. Um, and it's also not very spelled out, it's somewhat subtle, but it's also very intentional at the same time. So yeah, I appreciate it. And honestly, I mean, I would say Empire Strikes Back for me has the most epic lightsaber battle, but it's good, yeah, yeah. But I but I would say Return of the Jedi does a really, really good job too. And I I always think back whenever I watch these trilogies again that I'm like, this was the first experience of a lightsaber battle. Like now, after you hit Darth Maul and all the amazing things that that it's like, all right, well, we know what it's capable of, but before then, like just the way they choreograph everything, it was like the for the fact that that was the first time ever is that much more impactful, which I think is cool. I agree. Um, let's see here. Uh he says, the music and moment you described, I can feel the excitement in me. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, if you're super familiar with those these films, like all of us nerds, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_00Uh, very quickly, let's uh let's take a pause real quick and talk a little bit about this El Mago. I know that you're dealing with a tight draw.
SPEAKER_03Uh, has that subsided at all, or is it still it's a it's a it's a little better, it's still not like you know where I would want it to be ideal, but it's it's working. Uh the flavor on this is nice. Um, I I feel like I'm still maybe maybe even stronger now getting that that peanut or nutty type character on it.
SPEAKER_01100%.
SPEAKER_03And uh there's not a lot in the way of spice, but it does have a nice uh like almost eucalyptus-y, you know, sensation.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I will say too, uh, and I've talked to my brother about this, I've talked to a few other people about this. One of my least favorite, and I don't want to sound too negative, but one of my least favorite wrappers typically is Habano. And I'm not quite sure what that is. I mean, I think it's definitely palette uh centric, but when it's like here, when I'll try a cigar for the first time, it's like here's a more medium habano cigar, then I'm like, okay, I'm in for something really boring. I've had enough like Habanos that I just not really enjoy. That's why I tend to go towards Corojo Sumatra. But in terms of this, I would put it strength level medium, I would say body medium, medium plus, full in flavor. Um, it's got a lot going on. Like you're saying, that eucalyptus, that kind of like subtle sweetness of like peanut peanut butter type deal. Um I would also say maybe a hint of like uh a dash of cinnamon that's like not too crazy overwhelming, but there's a lot going on to where this I don't know. Every time I smoke this cigar, I'm finding something new and really enjoying, and I'm like, there are hope for habanos when they smoke like this. So um I really enjoy it.
SPEAKER_03I've also got a really weird tasting note. Um, there's this um Spanish tapas restaurant that my wife and I like to go to, or one of the dishes are these um dates that have blue cheese inside them, uh then they're wrapped in bacon and have a sweet glaze on them. I get I get something that tastes like that on the retrohale of this.
SPEAKER_00Okay, nice, nice. I I can see too the um there's a hint of like a funk to it. Maybe that's the blue.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, maybe it's yeah, I was about to say, maybe it's the blue cheese that was leading me there.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah. No, I can definitely see it. I just ashed it because the ash was holding really strong, but I know it's either gonna land up on my computer or my lap, so I had to ash it, but going pretty strong. Um, yeah, strong uh midway. We'll see where it ends at the end here. Uh Nick is saying, in terms of regards of lightsaber fights, they wanted the sabers to be heavier, that's why slower, but also those OG sabers were not that resilient. Um, I just think it's funny how you go from like it's still a very impactful moment, but the lightsaber techniques that go on in the very first Obi-Wan versus Vader is seem very primitive compared to it's a little it's a little rough, isn't it? It is, it is a little rough, yeah. Um, but again, 1977. I I just remember the first time I watched it, I was just like couldn't look away. So it's just it's interesting to see how the entertainment is expanded from there.
SPEAKER_03Well, and and you know, I I think that on rewatches a lot of that is forgivable because uh the fight is serving a um you know a narrative purpose between these two characters that are are are clashing because um you know they're sort of um you know Vader doesn't quite realize it yet, but they're sort of in a battle for Luke's soul in a way. You know, Obi-Wan knows that uh Luke is important and that by sacrificing himself in that fight, he can help for the long-term goal of getting Luke to where he needs to be to go train with Yoda and the whole shebang. Um, so uh you know the fight is really good on that level, the as far as how it serves the plot and reinforces some of the thematic ideas and what have you.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And as we had mentioned, this was gonna be a standalone movie, and now it's a trilogy, and now it's a nine-parter. Um, but I would say, in essence, I don't know about the new ones, but from prequel to Return of the Jedi, in my opinion, it's the entire story of Star Wars that way is the rise and fall of someone who aspires to be something great, loses himself, and tries to seek redemption at the very end. Yeah, and that being Anakin Skywalker. Um I like the fact that it is in the main trilogy, like there's a lot of emphasis, but a lot of emphasis is put on like Luke's journey. Um, but I will hand it to the fact that even though it was a standalone movie, it's not so jarring to where it's discombobulating that that is this through line of this story, right? Which I find is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03Um I got a couple of just like frivolous fun questions uh to throw at you across this original trilogy, favorite droid.
SPEAKER_00Oh, hands down, C3P.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, hands down.
SPEAKER_00In fact, when I was like nine or ten, he was my favorite character. Okay, and he's that might sound outlandish, but I think that this is before I feel like in the prequels and the other ones, like C3PO becomes aware of his comedy, or at least the directors do, but Empire Strikes Back, it's more organic, and it's legitimately funny. And throwing him in the cockpit of this smuggler, uh, it works. So I yeah, hands down that. What about you?
SPEAKER_03Um, I mean, I'm tempted to go the basic route and say R2 because R2 is just such a sassy little punk and sure saves the day so often. Um uh but I also love uh there's a it's because it it's so indicative of the way that the guys that were you know designing this world were just like taking bits and bobs and sticking stuff together and be like, does that that looks kind of like a droid? Sure. And there's uh this droid that's in the um uh the Jawa sand crawler, and he just looks like a big box with legs on it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And he's called the gonk droid because the noise it makes it goes. There's just something so silly about that that you know, and you got a little performer, uh, you know, it might have been uh Kenny Baker, uh, for all I know, the guy who was inside R2D2, the the um uh little person who performed that. The just these like slightly anthropomorphized robot things, they're just so whimsical and stupid. I love them.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Daniel Frazier uh has an answer to that as well. He says C3PO was always the better droid. So, in his opinion, yeah. I also think that it's interesting the mythos of R5 D4, the one who's got the bad motivator.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I remember reading about this is when I was like super nerding out, and it was like apparently the concept was that R5 actually blew his motivator because he felt bad that R2 was being left behind, whether that's carrying or not, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, the other question is and I'm going to delete an option here because it's probably too easy. Uh, so no Millennium Falcon. What's your favorite spaceship?
SPEAKER_00Ooh, uh, probably slave one.
SPEAKER_03Oh, wicked. Yeah, good choice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Boba Fett's is pretty legit.
SPEAKER_03Uh big props to Ben Burt. He's the sound designer for these films, and his work is kind of legendary. Uh, the engine sound on the slave one is so cool.
SPEAKER_00It is so cool, and I always like the fact that it's so like horizontal, and then when it flies, it flips the other way. I always thought the design was really legit. What about you?
SPEAKER_03Uh, there are many that I love, um, but and this probably goes back to me owning some of the toys from the original Kenner toy line in the 80s. Um, I really like the B-wing.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_03That one is super cool to me. Yeah. Um, and it was one of the funnest toys to play with because you could rotate the body around the cockpit and have it go in those different configurations and stuff. Um, I just I just really like those. I mean, they did such a cool job with this trilogy of designing stuff that all felt like it came from the same universe, you know. Everything has like a very distinct Star Wars look, and they I think one of the things that really works, especially for film, if we're talking about like being able to, you know, know who the good guys and bad guys are instantly when a new shot comes in and stuff's going really fast. I mean, look at the simple basic shapes that these ships make. The TIE Fighter is an H, the X-Men is an X, Star Destroyers are a big triangle, like you know, really simple, clean graphic shapes. Um, I think the design work on this movie is pretty brilliant or this this trilogy.
SPEAKER_00100%. Actually, I have one for you, and this is this is kind of more of a Star Wars fan question. Also, drop it down in the comments if you guys have an opinion on this. Now, unless you had purchased the original VHS, you can't watch the original theatrical version without the extended edits that happened. That's right. And I know there's a lot of turmoil between those, but if you had to choose one of the added like additional moments throughout the trilogy, what's one you're like, actually, I think this does kind of add a little bit, and I don't mind it.
SPEAKER_03Uh, in uh A New Hope, uh, there's a uh when um Han has finally uh uh gotten the um uh Millennium Falcon ready to go after they fought off the stormtroopers that have chased them there. Luke and everybody gets on board, and there's a pretty cool like top-down shot of the uh Millennium Falcon leaving that docking bay to fly off of Tatooine. I think that's a pretty cool shot. Yeah, I'm okay with that one.
SPEAKER_00Okay, honestly, for me, I'm okay with the addition of the the Wampas Lair. Oh, I I feel like I was so confused as a kid being like, wait, what is it? I don't really see you. See this arm, you see one glimpse of a face. Why is like Luke like freaking out because we don't see the impending danger? And I just thought that was the coolest thing when they added, I was like, Oh, we actually get to see it. So I've always had a fondness for that.
SPEAKER_03That works for me too. I like it. By the way, when I was a kid, that was also one of the coolest toys to play with because the Wampa toy, the arms were spring loaded. Okay, so you could you could his arms were fixed like this, and they were spring loaded, so you could pull it back and just let go, and you just flack, you know, another action figure.
SPEAKER_00It's funny, it's funny how that evolved because like I had a Wampa that instead it was just it was like a snap-on arm, you could snap his arm off and cut his arm off type thing. So 100%. Uh Nick's saying the OG special editions and for the additions that added fighters fly uh towards the Death Star.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that is a cool shot, too.
SPEAKER_00That is pretty cool. Yeah, um, let's see here. Magley is saying, uh, I love the one without Jabba the Hut scene. The uh whole point was uh to hear oh, the whole point was to hear Jabba build up the return of the Jedi when we finally see him. So glad I watched the original versions first. Sure, no, a hundred percent. Um, I think, yeah, one of the biggest atrocities is the the pit of Sarlac. I'm not about it.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I don't like that either. It was so kind of cool and creepy that it was just this big, like you know, seemingly like bottomless pit of a mouth. Yes, and adding that beak in there just did does nothing for me.
SPEAKER_00It's just like, all right, now it's a Venus flytrap or something. Like, what's happening here? It just don't like it.
SPEAKER_03Um, I'm curious about something. Um with these three movies, do you remember seeing them for the first time?
SPEAKER_00So I remember, and I don't remember the specific like day, but I remember my initial reactions. Like the biggest impactful moments. So New Hope was uh I couldn't believe that Obi-Wan died. Right. When he died, I was like, wait, is he really gone? I couldn't really believe that. Empire Strikes Back. Uh, the big moment for me, of course, was Luke, I'm your father. Because I will say, my my dad never really, he never liked Star Wars, but my mom, my mom really liked it, so she watched it with all of us, and she kept it to herself. Good on her, that they were actually father and son. So we had no idea she wanted the organic like experience of watching that first time, right? And then I thought for when I saw Return of the Jedi, I do remember that it was on a Monday night, it was late at night. We had made like pizza or something, we were watching the movie, and the moment that Luke's green lightsaber came out, I was like mind-blown. Oh, yeah. It was yeah, that I mean, all of which were on we rented from the video store until we bought the trilogy on VHS. What about you?
SPEAKER_03I'm in the exact opposite boat. Um, I saw all of these when I was so young that I don't remember seeing them for the first time. It's just like they've always been there. Gotcha. Um, yeah. Now, in fact, one of my earliest memories, people always ask that question, like, you know, what's your earliest memory? How the heck should I know? Like, there's like this soup of memories that are from around the time I was four and five years old, which is the first I don't whatever. But I do remember, I mean, it had to have been uh Christmas 1983, uh uh opening up one of my presents, and it was the scout speeder bikes from the forest chase on Endor. I I very specifically remember getting that present and being super excited about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. Nick Nick remembers, he says, uh VHS at grandfather's video store, then the special editions in theater. Right. Um, which I will say I do remember going to see a new hope special edition for the first time. I was like seven, maybe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you would have been seven.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I remember seeing that. Um, I will say, and we'll get into actually we'll we'll save that question, but I have more, of course, accurate memories, and I'm curious to hear yours about the prequels, right? Yeah, but yeah, I remember those moments, and I still remember those moments, even when they come up, like I used to think this was so cool. Or I remember when uh Luke first walks into Java's palace and he's hooded, and we were like just firing off like uh guests. We're like, wait, is OE1 back? Is that what like who is this guy? But because the first time he's all in black in Jedi robe and he's very distinct, like not Luke Skywalker from the other movies, so right. Yeah, I remember that stuff a lot.
SPEAKER_03Um, there's one other thing I want to talk about, and I think we need to because it's gonna directly lead into what we're gonna be talking about next week when we do the prequels, which is um uh what happened in the the course of uh you know fleshing out this trilogy, because like I mentioned, you know, it started with uh uh a new hope where Luke uh Lucas was like, I yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make this whole thing, so I'll do this first chapter. Um and in that movie, Darth Vader is not related to Luke. You hear uh uh Obi-Wan say, until he was killed by a young Jade named Darth Vader.
SPEAKER_00Right. Darth is not a title, he calls him Darth when he's fighting for them.
SPEAKER_03And yeah, they can refers to him as Darth. Uh and in that movie, when they want to give him an honorific, they call him Lord Vader, right? So the subsequent films where he decides, okay, you know, Vader is gonna be Luke's father, and uh Leia is also part of that family tree. You know, like I said, as a kid, I accepted all that stuff at face value, and it's and it's fine. And you know, the revelations, you know, uh no, I am your father, you know, it's it it all works, and those are iconic moments, but I think I have a complicated feeling about it now because it turns into this thing in the uh the following trilogy where suddenly you have to have the right special magic things in your bloodline, and it turns into sort of a uh uh inheritance royal family kind of thing, because the the the idealistic appeal of a new hope was that Luke was a nobody from nowhere who became the kid who saved the galaxy, and that was an empowering message for the whole audience, and it turns into this thing where it's like, oh no, only if you are come from the right family. Um, so I kind of take a little bit of that critical lens on this original trilogy, too, and that you know, this is where that stuff started, and a lot of it still functions and is great. And I, you know, I love those the the father redeeming the son, you know, there's a lot of emotion in that last scene in Return of the Jedi, right before Vader dies. Like, you know, these movies wouldn't be the same without that stuff, but it still it it creates, I think, problems in the the overall narrative when you look at the nine films. So, right, what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00I think that um you're right in the original trilogy. There's some clunky moments. The biggest one, of course, the classic uh why did Luke kiss his own sister? It's always gonna be weird. Um, I don't necessarily think contained in this trilogy, it's that big of an issue, but the biggest issue that happens as it expands is that this massive universe with so many different worlds gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. And we see the really like death sentence of that concept, I feel like in Rise of Skywalker. Like how how extremely bad that yeah, that one pushes that one pushes super.
SPEAKER_03I mean, obviously, we'll get to that in detail in a couple weeks, but uh oh boy.
SPEAKER_00I'm still debating, like I'm like, I'm probably gonna have to watch this movie again because I only saw that one in theater, and that's it when it came out.
SPEAKER_03Same. I I I've kind of intentionally avoided it.
SPEAKER_00To suffer together, yeah. Um, but I think that it's it's enough, it's enough that it's enough in the original trilogy. I do think that the added things that came later, Metaclore accounts and all those things, um, really shoots them in the foot. And part of the reason it's such a revelation is like how no one saw it coming because this world is so big, and because like what are the chances that this was a situation that this is father and son, but then it's like no no no, we're all connected so much, and that's the force, and blah blah blah blah blah. It kind of goes away with some of the the like pleasant surprise and the element that worked in Empire Strikes Back when you really build on it. So, yeah, in using that critical lens in this trilogy, it's still not gonna bother me that much. I think I agree. I think I agree. Yeah, it'll spill over, and then it gets to the point where it does bother me in the other ones for sure. Um, really quick, we got a comment here saying first Star Wars movie I saw was Empire Strikes Back with my big brother. We rented it and it was I was blown away. First part on Hoth is uh filmed in finesse, uh, in my home country, Norway. Nice, nice, nice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um, we should probably talk for a half a second about the the Hoth battle sequence because is that not one of the coolest things that's ever been committed to film ever? Like at least in genre cinema. It's so it looks so good because the effects are practical, even with the stop motion, and you know that's how they're doing it, like you know, doing it in in the bright sun like that was kind of a ballsy thing. Uh, you know, that's that's hard to do. Um, but there are so many cool moments and ideas in that sequence. For example, uh you know, this is one of the things that I love about Star Wars and the way that it's designed is that if you're going to uh you know practically design a futuristic transport vehicle to carry troops into the battle, did I lose you? Did you lose me?
SPEAKER_00Sorry, I just lost you there for a second.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay, I'm back.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, okay. So you're gonna design transport vehicles, sorry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um a a big, you know, uh uh like animal-like thing, you know, with long legs, you know, that's that's a terrible design. Yeah, but for for this movie, it's great because uh, you know, there's that scene when they they first uh arrive, you can hear them before you can see them, and then suddenly they start you know popping up over the horizon and they look like these big beasts. It's like when the giant elephants charge the the uh battle at the uh uh climax of um uh return of the king. Like um, and it's it's George Lucas's and the design team's sensibilities to look for things like that that create um you know uh striking visuals and ideas over what's the most logical, sensible, like you know, design choice. Like I just love that about this movie series.
SPEAKER_00Yes, no, I I agree 100%. It's and it's from the get-go, and I I like the struggle, even that like Luke and Han and the Rebels are having on this Hoth ice planet before even the Empire shows up with with like declining uh rapid temperatures and all those types of things. I feel like those types of elements are not necessarily spent time on enough, especially in an opening of a movie. And then if you contain the entire Hoth segment into its like beginning and it's like hook and then it's climax with that battle with the AT80s, it's it's yeah, brilliant. Yeah, um, before I know we're we're gonna we're running a little bit late, so I want to talk about this very quickly. Go ahead. I know I know that too. Uh we have a span of next year will be 50 years of Star Wars. That's right since New Hope. And when this was being created, as much as like it was expanded. Okay, now we're gonna do a trilogy, and then there was toys coming out, and there's all these types of things. I think it's interesting, depending on where you were and what decade you watched it in, how names evolved in Star Wars mythos. For example, the what the AT80s are they ATATs or are they ad-ats?
SPEAKER_03For me, they're add atts.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's a clear example. Another one to me is is it uh Hammerhead or Mamani Dan?
SPEAKER_03Hammerhead, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that type of thing is always interesting, but uh, from what I understand, a lot of those names came from the actual toys being produced at the time.
SPEAKER_03That's my understanding, too. Is there's so many like you know, little side characters, and they made a toy for almost every single damn one of them. Even that little bat looking dude at the bar in uh a new hope is like he wants a drink, and the guy they made a toy for that guy, he's on screen for like two seconds. So, um, uh as far as I know, a lot of the names of those things came from the marketing department. I mean, maybe George Lucas signed off on them. I don't I don't know exactly what the process was, but it's funny how much how many things I know, quote unquote, about Star Wars that are not from the movie at all. All like all these character names and stuff like that is just not in the film.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's funny because I would say majority of what I have learned about Star Wars actually came in the form of like 1998, 1999. There was when Magic the Gathering was like really on the rise. There was the Star Wars customizable card game. You buy expansion packs, they would release expansions, and you get all of these characters that you play in this game, but their names, their background histories, so so many like we'll be watching it, and Clark's like, What that what's that guy's name? I'm like, Oh, that's so-and-so. Oh, that's so-and-so, because of these Star Wars cards. So it's just it's interesting how that kind of yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, I don't think I have it anymore. I got a bunch of books on this shelf here that are Star Wars related, like art of this film or whatever, and stuff like that. At one point in time, I owned a Star Wars encyclopedia that just had like an entry for every character, spaceship, planet, whatever, right? And uh clearly this was a universe that inspired a lot of people to just like like try to delve into the the dark recesses and the corners in the background and flesh out all the details and ideas. And uh I think rightfully so. It's designed so well, and it at the time it was such a fresh interpretation of sci-fi. It it feels like such a rich, lived-in, fully realized universe, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, a hundred percent. Nick is likewise saying all my knowledge came from games, technical books, and book books, yeah. Um, and for all of the expansions, like I'm at this point with like Disney with all what they're doing. I'm like, yeah, I'm not really interested. There's just too much. But if they were to ever make a movie about Mara Jade, I'd probably watch it. Probably watch. I just thought she was a cool character. Um, okay, so we're coming to the end here. Before we end, uh let's rate this El Mago Habano. Um, I've noticed towards the end here, it's gotten a little savory, a little bit, a little bit like uh like charred mushroom to me. Maybe a little bit of like charred like burnt end to me, a little bit of smokiness. I don't know. What about you?
SPEAKER_03Um, I'm I'm not getting the meatiness, but the roasty flavor makes sense to me because I was just thinking it was like almost like a roasted asparagus.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah, something like that. Like I was kind of going with the mushroom, then yeah, there's this kind of roasty toastiness to it. Um, but also I appreciate again, it's it's not drying out my palate. Um burns real good. So yeah, let's let's rate this cigar El Mago Art Deco. Let's write this down on a scale from one to ten. All right, I have it. I do too. It is 7.5.
SPEAKER_03How do we keep doing this?
SPEAKER_00I promise we do not we did not talk about this before. That's why we started writing it down. And uh yeah, it's a solid seven point.
SPEAKER_03I'll tell you, I'll tell you what it was tonight. You know why we did this because we felt a tremor in the force.
SPEAKER_00That's right. We felt it. Um, okay, so to uh kind of like lay it down so there's no confusion. Next week we are gonna delve into the prequels, that being episode one, two, and three. Um, so further into the mythos of Star Wars. If you guys joined us for this episode, join us next week. Same time. Uh the conversation is great. We're gonna be jumping into the variety pack. Join OGT Cigar Variety Club so you can get these five cigars, but also smoke them along with us as we continue our journey into the Star Wars. I don't, it's not even a trilogy, is it's saga. Yeah, Star Wars saga. So thanks so much, Curtis. It was great hanging out, talking Star Wars. Thank you guys, and we'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_03Here on this podcast, luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
SPEAKER_00And uh may the force be.
