Cigars and Cinema Podcast
Every cigar is smoked in thirds: First third, second, and final, just as every Movie is performed in three acts. Join Eric Drazin and Mike Coleman to delve into the world of cigars and movies as they analyze, break down, and critique cigars and films as each progress.
Cigars and Cinema Podcast
"Star Wars Spin Offs. Good or Bad?" Ep. 109 5/28/26
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Eric and Curtis are nearly at the end of the Star Wars marathon, but there are a few more unexplored territories to go through, namely spin-offs! Join the C and C crew as we explore the far reaches of the galaxy and the extended media of Star Wars! They light up the Cigar Clowns Pagliacci Oscuro
LINK: Cigar Clowns Pagliacci
https://oakglentobacconist.com/product-category/cigar-clowns-pagliacci/
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Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema. Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's journey into another episode of Smoke and Screen. Today's episode of Cigars and Cinema is coming to you from the OTT Cigars Society to enjoy a five half of three of custom cigars each month at an undeniable price. Join the community and smoke with us on the Oakland Tobacchinist YouTube channel as we delve into the rich experience of OT Craft Cigars, and many cigars and vitolas custom made just for our membership. If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the subscription and the whole host of DT cigars, visit us at www.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode and yet again another episode within the galaxy of Star Wars here on Cigars and Cinema Podcast. If you are joining us for the first time, or if you hang out with us every Tuesday night because it's such a great time to hang out, uh, this is the podcast where we smoke cigars while unabashedly commentating, in some cases, giving extreme opinions on film and entertainment. I am one of your hosts coming to you from the East Coast in North Carolina, Eric Drazen from OGT Cigars. And on the other side of the country on the West Coast, Curtis Bailey from Beaumont, California. Curtis, thanks again for jumping on tonight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I suppose we're going to find out if the uh force is with us tonight because we've chosen kind of an absurdly broad topic for this week's episode.
SPEAKER_01We have. We have. It's uh I feel like we're gonna be all over the place, but that's okay. I mean, I think that's gonna be cool. Uh yeah, exactly. And we're here to talk all things movies, all things cigars. I see we have a fair amount of comments already in the comment pool. So thank you guys so much. I will encourage you to continue that during the show. Uh, it's always always much more engaging when you also do just that engage in the show. So drop those comments down. I will do my best to pull those up. Uh, we got RJ on saying, hello, Eric and Curtis. Looking forward to the show tonight. Just received my Crimson Night today, wasted no time lighting that bad boy up, smoking it tonight. Excellent. Well, RJ, let me know what you think. Um, hope you hope you enjoy it. My brother's also watching saying, smoking the same, brother. So we got a couple of uh crimson night going on. RJ also says, Hey Andrew, you couldn't wait uh to let it rest, huh? Uh well okay, we got Brian on. Brian Silva saying, Hey guys, thanks, thanks for jumping on, Brian. Um Brian. Andrew's also saying, I'm enjoying it so much, I think it fits the night. Um, and then Jason's on. I'm here. Hello, Eric and Curtis. Enjoying and Groni, this is the way. Yeah, very nice. Uh, are you are you pairing anything tonight with a cigar?
SPEAKER_00Uh I just have my standard issue old-fashioned.
SPEAKER_01Nice, nice, very good. Stay the uh the old reliable. It is.
SPEAKER_00Um, so yeah, that's that actually those comments raised a question. Where since we're clearly doing this night series, we got the green night, we got sorry, uh, Emerald Knight, we got the Crimson Knight. Is there a Jedi Knight around the corner by chance?
SPEAKER_01Oh, spin-off! Yeah, no, it's uh it's a really cool series. If you guys are unfamiliar, you need to check out OGT Cigar Society. This is the Crimson Knight that RJ and Andrew are talking about. It is the first custom uh Cameroon cigar we've released in the society. It's a six by fifty box press, um, beautiful cigar, aged a little over two years out of the Valocari factory. Um, really good stuff. So I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks. Um, in terms of tonight, let's let's talk about what we're smoking. Uh, we are choosing from the OGT variety club pack, which we do each and every month. We choose a cigar from this pack. So any of our variety members can uh smoke the same cigar, enjoy it with us. We're smoking the one on the far right with that kind of like I don't know, what color would you say that label is? Baby blue. There you go, baby blue. There you go. Uh, this is the Cigar Clowns Pagliacci del Cigare. Uh, I'm pretty pretty sure I just butchered that. But um, this is such an incredible cigar. It's one of my personal favorites that the clowns have done. Um, I love the box press. I like the Vitula. It comes only in a six by 54 box press. The thing that's insane about this cigar is a five-pack of this blend is 37.50.
SPEAKER_00That is not bad.
SPEAKER_01That's not bad at all. It's all long filler. Um, there's two different ones. This is the Oscuro, there's also the Claro. Um, both of which, from my understanding, are San Andreas. I could be wrong. This might be an Ecuadorian Habano. The thing about the clowns releases is they're very like, they don't release all the info. They can make it mysterious, but they've released this as the Oscuro, uh, and I know it's Nicaraguan filler. Um, the binder I am familiar with, but they're like, we're not releasing that either. So a lot of mystique around the cigar. I'm excited to see where it lands.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00I'm looking forward to it too.
SPEAKER_01And Curtis, what do you think of the the size? Is this too big of a ring gauge? Is it no?
SPEAKER_00I like this a lot. In particular, I think that ring gauges like this um are nice as a box press because you know, once you get to start getting a a certain uh ring gauge on just a Parejo, just you know, a standard tube. Um, you know, you can kind of get into like, you know, this is feels a little bit like you know, not the best fit for if you like chomping it in your teeth, or if you just you know, whatever the smoking experience, because this box press necessarily kind of narrows it across one axis. Um, it just makes it really more pleasant, I think, to I I'm right there with you.
SPEAKER_01I really like a 54, sometimes even a 56 box press. I feel like it's comfortable, it works. Yeah, yeah. Um, so we'll get a cold draw. One, a few more comments. Faceless Orchestra saying, just lit up the Crimson Knight, pairing it with star-based brewing Houston. We have a porter. That sounds good. That's a cool name. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Brian's saying, I'm sure there would be some licensing issues with Jedi Knight.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, you know, they between uh uh You're the Smoky Lizard and Emerald Knight, I'm sure you and Mallory can we'll figure we'll just call it I Am All the Jedi, and we'll just be a cigar.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so uh let's do a cold draw and see where this Pagliacci starts.
SPEAKER_00I think uh um you could just call it Space Wizard Knight.
SPEAKER_01There you go. There you go. Really interesting. A little bit of uh what did I I want to say almost like clove and anise, but maybe, yeah. But it's subtle, a little bit of a little bit of saltiness on the on the palate.
SPEAKER_00I was also gonna say that. That's there for sure. Good open drawing. Really, really, really, I was gonna say super wide open draw. Right.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, guys, we're gonna light up Pagliacci uh and see where it begins. Every cigar leaves an impression.
SPEAKER_00However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01So enjoy your cigar as you light it up. Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
SPEAKER_00In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface. So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
SPEAKER_01All right. First start, good smoke output, good sweetness, a little, not too much pepper, I'm noticing. I don't know. What about you?
SPEAKER_00I went while we were off camera there doing the letter. I literally, after the first puff, did one of these where I was like, What on earth is that that I think that I'm tasting? And I think I'm landing on something in the neighborhood of a buttered biscuit.
SPEAKER_01Ooh, okay. Okay, I can see the butteriness, like an oily butteriness for sure. Um I think I've mentioned this before. It honestly, when you put that in my mind, I'm I'm thinking almost like a piece of toast. I don't know if you ever had this as a kid with a generous amount of butter over the top and then sprinkled with cinnamon. You get a little bit of cinnamon like butteriness. That's kind of what I'm getting right now. Really good smoke output.
SPEAKER_00The retrohale brings a more kind of um uh sort of bite or uh acidic kind of something uh that's making me think, yeah, yeah. Do you kind of get where I'm going with that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Really interesting. And I know that you mentioned last week you were kind of getting this, but I think textural-wise, as the finish goes through, a little bit of like that kind of bite you get from a grapefruit.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, I think that's there too.
SPEAKER_01That makes a interesting now. Really quick, before we jump into the extended universe of Star Wars, I have to mention something we just released today. I'm super excited about it. We uh just dropped an awesome neon tiger ambush sampler from Black Label. And the reason I'm so excited for this is it's got all three tigers the neon, the con, tiger lily, really, really hard to get a hold of. Um, but also some of the Triforium that we we saved a little bit of. So that's in there. The new macabre is in there, the new Porcelain Toro and the new Rorschach Sumatra Toro, all in one pack. And it's also a raffle. You'll notice at the bottom there's an ashtray. This is a more beautiful picture of it. This is a $60 ashtray from Black Label Trading Company. When you pick up the sampler pack, you're automatically entered into that raffle. A two-pack gets you three raffle tickets, and we're going to be announcing the winner on Instagram this weekend. So if you guys are a Black Label fan like I am, some of the more rare cigars all collected into an incredible deal, as well as an added perk of maybe winning this beautiful ashtray. I've got one of my humidor. I love it, I use it all the time. So these are in very short supply. So I want to let everyone know, just as a quick shout-out, check that out if you get the option.
SPEAKER_00That's pretty sick.
SPEAKER_01It's pretty legit. Again, I'm a huge Black Label fan, but I was like, let's just smush all of the new releases and the awesome releases into one pack, and there you go. Okay, so uh we are continuing in the galaxy of Star Wars, and we are now talking about the extended media. So we covered the original trilogy, we covered the prequel trilogy, and last week the sequel trilogy, and now we have the massive undertaking, and perhaps some might even say headache of talking about the rest of the Star Wars media.
SPEAKER_02And there's a lot.
SPEAKER_01Disney kind of went all out on this. Before we jump into like highlights or really bad low points in the extended, what is your opinion overall from let's say where your idea of Star Wars was, I don't know, 2016 on the cusp of the prequel trilogy. Sure, yeah, it is now. Like, how was that changed?
SPEAKER_00Um I mean, I I already felt like the I'm gonna refer to this as the extended universe. That's kind of more or less the term that's applies to stuff outside of like the main movies and whatnot. So, novels, comic books, video games, all that stuff. The extended universe was already a big old mixed bag, yeah, in 2015. So it's there's of course tons of it that I have not partaken of. So many novels and comic books and things that just have never passed crossed my eyes and never will probably. But um, you know, one of the first and earliest was a series of three novels written by Timmy Zon, which are kind of unofficially called the Thrawn Trilogy. Yes, and uh those came out in the 90s, kind of when Star Wars like didn't have anything coming out, you know, that they had made a couple Ewok movies for TV in the 80s, which I remember seeing when I was a kid, but uh those novels kind of like you know, um satisfied the hunger fans had for more Star Wars stuff. I did not read them in the 90s, I read them uh about 20 years ago, uh, when I was you know art an adult with some of my adult tastes and all that kind of stuff, yeah. And I thought they were largely not good, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. Um, seeing, and yeah, I know you were mentioning that these covers like bring back so many memories. Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I I did read some uh on the outgoing, uh, in terms of when I was like in in my teenage uh years, I remember one of the favorite books I read was Tales of Jabba's Palace. So you learn all these origin stories of the Rancor Keeper of uh Bib Fortuna, all these things, which of course is all like kind of just made up. Um, but I as a teenager I was like, this is super cool. Um and it's interesting because like I think we had mentioned there was Star Wars Insider, we were into that. I was into a Star Wars customizable card game, but a lot of it was pretty closely knit to the original trilogy. Um so seeing Disney take it over and kind of expand, I do feel on some level we have reached into the like okay, we've talked about the interesting main stars. Now let's talk about the characters no one really cares about. Try to build series off of them. Um, Andrew's saying we're now we're talking Disney cash grabs tonight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I mean, not just Disney cash grabs, but yes, we will talk about those too. But yeah, I mean, there's so much. I mean, um, you asked, like, you know, kind of where I was at with the extended universe stuff, you know, prior to the Disney rebooting Star Wars. And uh for me, a big chunk of it was uh a handful of video games. Um there were a couple really great ones in the 90s that had neat premises to them. One was called Dark Forces, um, which was a first-person shooter, and you played a guy who um, you know, was trying to stop the empire from developing this new um type of stormtrooper that was gonna be like super powerful robot kind of thing, which we kind of see in some of the TV shows eventually and whatnot. But it was just fun to you know exist in that galactic civil war era, but not be tied up in the main saga nonsense, right? Right. You got to like you know go one-on-one against Boba Fett at one of the levels, and you know, just all kinds of super fun stuff like that, and then they parlayed that the main character from that into more games where eventually he becomes a Jedi. So you get to be running around Bespin, throwing your lightsaber 500 yards, just you know, spinning and slicing through guys, and then you can you know push them off of ledges, and you know, you just get to have so much fun with all the the powers that a Jedi has. Um and then there was another really fantastic one called Um Uh uh Oh gosh, why is the name of it escaping me?
SPEAKER_01It's a um is it knights of the old republic?
SPEAKER_00Not that one, that is very good. Um, I'm thinking of TIE Fighter.
SPEAKER_01Um, okay.
SPEAKER_00That one was also cool. It came out in the 90s because the uh the it was cool because the premise was you're playing a character from the empire now, you're on the bad guy's side, okay. And you're so you were a TIE fighter pilot, and you just went through mission after mission after mission of being tasked with do this, do this. And the gameplay was super rad. It played the music from the movies as the score in the background, like in every mission, and you know, there were little animated sequences with the emperor telling you you did a good job, and stuff like it was just like you know, such a neat, weird, but like extremely playable kind of thing. So yeah, yeah. That that was kind of like a big chunk of for me what Star Wars was in this intervening period between you know uh trilogies, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, 100%. I remember there was a game that I uh grew up playing, I think it came out late 90s, um, but it was on PC. This is what it uh looked like. It was called Mysteries of the Sith.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. Um, oh, that's part of the Jedi Knight series, yeah, yeah. That started with dark forces and eventually kind of turned into a bunch of game games. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I mean it again, it was that just yeah, you start off with a blaster and then you get your lightsaber and you fight weird creatures. And the graphics, of course, back then were different. Um but yeah, no, I remember doing that, and then I really think if there is a Star Wars game that I put in a decent amount of hours would be the Battlefront series, Star Wars Battlefront, Battlefront 2. Sure. Um, and like you were saying, throwing the lightsaber like a bajillion yards, like being Darth Maul on Battlefront was always one of the coolest things ever. You're like, this is what I want to do. Yeah, um, but even too, I I like the fact that when in Battlefront, how they would had it more like third person shooter instead of first person, um, because you also get to see more of the I guess world around you um that worked. Um, but those that would be the extent of the video games that I actually played. I didn't I'm not a huge into video games growing up, but there's a select few that I put some hours into.
SPEAKER_00I always like the levels in Battlefront where you could uh be the stormtroopers that had the jetpack.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, those are fun. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00And what was great about those, and I know that they try to like you know put some story stuff into them and whatnot, but like who effing cares? It's just you like I get to reside in the Star Wars universe, which has some of the coolest, you know, costumes and weapon designs and lightsabers and stuff, and just run around and do Star Wars violence for a couple hours. Like, that's yeah, come on, that's fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, and I think too part of what we're gonna talk about tonight, and I'm sure part of the disappointment in some of Disney's stuff is we we mentioned this in the prequel, I mean, sorry, in the trilogy series, is that you don't need to expand it so much where you kind of lose just this the I don't know, singular aspect. And the reason I bring that up is because in Battlefront, like you're saying, just shooting around and doing Star Wars stuff, it's pretty simplified, yeah. But but so much enjoyment can be done from the original creation of that. So when you flesh it out too much, I feel like it gets stretched so thin where some of the enjoyment gets lost.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um, well, heck, let's use that as a launching pad for talking about things stretched thin. Uh top of mind for you of the the you know, new Disney stuff, you know, old whatever. Like, you know what comes to mind for you is like, oh, this this definitely is like they've scraped uh too too much, uh, too little butter over too much bread.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it happened pretty early on with me. I know Mandalorian was a pretty big launching pad for series. It was. Um, I have issues on principle with the Kenobi trilli, the Kenobi series. I have issues with I mean, one of the biggest is Book of Boba Fett. Now, if we were to zoom in on just that, you're you're coming off of the uh the win, I guess you could say, the high praise for Mandalorian. So they're like, now we can do Boba Fett. And I don't know if I've mentioned this before. I only made it in one episode because one of the biggest questions with the fans forever was like, there's rumors and legends that Boba Fett escaped the Sarlac Pit. Right. This is going on forever. So after 15, 16 years, whatever, you know, actually, it would probably be like my goodness, probably 35 years. Uh, the the answer the question of just a hand coming out of the desert, and then he just crawls out. You're like, there you go. And immediately I was like, okay, this is not the emphasis, this is telling something completely different. It destroys the mystique of Boba Fett and what makes him cool.
SPEAKER_00I absolutely 100% agree. And this even goes into like a like a little personal philosophy, I think, what have when it comes to the tiers of characters that you have in your fictional universes. And Boba Fett, um, like if you really think about how much he shows up in the original trilogy, he's barely in it. Yeah, right. Yeah, and the costume and the voice, original original voice, no uh offense to Tomara Morrison, the actor who played him later and they redubbed his voice into it. Like, that's fine, I get it. But so much of Boba Fett, he's he's vibes, right? You know, like he's just a cool costume, a cool ship, and you know, cool gadgets, and uh the reason that fans attach so much meaning to a character like that is because he's inherently mysterious. Once you take the mystery away, wow, yeah, yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_01It's true, and yeah, I mean the entire rogues gallery in Empire Strikes Back, when you first meet Boba Fett aboard the Executor, you also have Bosch, IG88, you have Dengar, I mean Toilet Paper Man, whichever you want to call. Um, but you have all these people that just appear, and you're like, Whoa, what's that guy's story? And that's what is yeah, it pulls you into it. So you lose so much to where I was like, this is gonna honestly not only disappoint me or make me upset, it might even. ruin part of the original trilogy for me.
SPEAKER_00That's not something I want. Right. Uh I I don't know that it goes as far as ruining it for me, but like the if you're going to pull a side character like that, who, like I said, by my philosophy, should remain a side character. But if you're gonna do it, right, then the story that you're gonna tell about that character, the reason that you're unearthing him to produce a narrative should feel kind of essential. I I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the story they wanted to tell is that he wanted to become a regional governor slash warlord for reasons.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like it didn't it didn't I didn't understand why Boba Fett wanted to do that. It was just like him trying to do like a uh a breaking bat or Sons of Anakry like I'm taking over this criminal empire thing and gonna run it my way. Why does he care?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00The show never tells us they never make any justification for why he wants this. It's just he wants it. And it doesn't make any sense for a guy who is a bounty hunter. They don't delve into you know producing any kind of like character based justification for why this guy wants to do this thing and why I'm gonna be invested in watching him try to do it. And it just is wet art.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and because the the adventures that you would expect that Boba Fett would be going on the jobs that he's getting as a bounty hunter have already been taken visually by the Mandalorian. So you can't repeat that then it begs the question why are we doing this? And so I think that is a prime example of not enough butter over too much bread. Yeah I absolutely agree. Um Mike is saying Star Wars Shadow of the Empire on N64 using the snow speeder's toe cable take down the AT80s. I played that a little bit good times yeah yeah and there were some great video games in uh arcades too you know like the the pot racing one and various others like they made some pretty cool ones I remember one I don't know the name of it and it was very poorly constructed but it was like your first person Luke and you have to use the three lights I don't remember what that's called either uh Jason on the topic of series says I rewatched Obi-Wan the last episode just for the duel versus Vader now this is purely I feel like the only argument for Obi-Wan for me is for nostalgic sake in terms of the Obi-Wan TV so show yes yes wanting to see Iwan McGregor uh duke it out with Vader see training montages with Hayden Christensen um aside from all that like we can get into the principle why this doesn't work for me in the the story of Star Wars. Right I I don't mean to be mean but the the child they chose for baby Leia is so insufferable and potentially showcases one of the worst action moments in Star Wars history when she's running away from guards trying to get her in a forest it's a real Keystone cops kind of moment for all you olds out there who remember Keystone cops.
SPEAKER_00Yeah um you know uh we've talked about this before I think that that show is just poorly conceived right from the beginning because for me that period of Obi-Wan's life makes sense if it's defined by loneliness regret feelings of failure feelings of paranoia having to watch over this special boy knowing that the Empire and Darth Vader are probably out there you know if not looking for him could happen upon you know just all that and so if he's like you know leaving Tatooine and getting into scrapes and knows Leia who clearly doesn't know him when we watch a new hope she says you know you serve my father isn't like hey this is how I know who you are not hey remember that time that we all together you know like it's just the whole idea for the show for me is just a non-starter God bless you McGregor he saves quote unquote the show because he's fantastic in it right but it is that's that as much as I love him in it it's not enough it's it's a poorly conceived narrative from ground zero.
SPEAKER_01And then honestly at the basis of all these added media movies series cartoons whatever it at some point you do have to ask the question is this something we needed is this something we wanted uh and unfortunately a lot of them I'm like no they it comes up as a big no for me uh Jason is saying uh Eric I knew you were going to bring that uh up that scene it was horrible it it was it it I I get it like when the prequel series came around it was like this is made for the people who love Star Wars growing up but it's also made for a new generation for kids.
SPEAKER_00Of course this was like uh are we like eight year olds now and I'm like I guess so maybe that's the audience and maybe I'm looking at it too critically and that's fair and there there is lots of Star Wars stuff that is definitely more aimed at a kid kid's audience and rightfully so like you know I mean this started life as a franchise for younger people right and that's where when we fell in love with it um like uh they did a show called Star Wars Visions where they handed over uh the um um creative reigns to a bunch of different anime uh animation studios and like hey make your own like five minute Star Wars animated short and we'll just lump them together in a collection and we're gonna call it visions and I watched that I didn't really love any of them but there are several that were very clearly aimed at a like 10 and under audience and gotcha yeah great like you know that that stuff should be there. Um I don't know where else I was going with that but yes.
SPEAKER_01And it no no no I think that's a great point because it's a fine line of how much do you appeal to that younger audience make it sell more merchandise uh really push into that but at some point you are going to alienate some of your original audience and sure maybe it needs to do that maybe it doesn't but either way I just on a I guess like on a critical level it's hard to really argue for any of these series is for me.
SPEAKER_00Well and on the in the terms of Obi-Wan specifically I think it's arguable that that even though like we said that you know there's kind of some kind of like younger audience stuff in that that shows very clearly clean clearly aimed at us right right hey remember remember Obi-Wan remember Obi-Wan and Darth Vader remember Tatooine remember you know it's just it's it wants to mine you know they have you and say hello there and yeah there's all these callbacks to stuff that again I don't like that I feel like I'm being pandered to yes the reason we love hello there is because it was unique to uh Obi-Wan and a new hope and that was a characteristic thing that he said make the new version of that in the next thing you make don't just keep repeating the ones that I already know it's lazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's lazy and it really feels like I've talked about this before like if you have a a uh wheel of just like either lines or plot devices like spin the wheel what do we come up with ah let's do this and we'll infuse it with nostalgia that's cheap shots um that really don't pull you in and again like I I think the gravity of in Revenge of the Sith when Anakin and Obi Wan face off when you see it when I saw it for the first time growing up on the original series you're like okay this is the epic moment whether it was handled great or not you felt it of course you in this Obi Wan series uh he even meets Darth Vader but and one it discredits last time we met I was the learner you're the master it all that dialogue is now out the window two it is so like understated and it doesn't have any of that gravity behind it I was like eh it missed this mark this is disappointing. I agree so yeah uh Jason saying we were at Galaxy's edge yesterday it was cool to see uh cool since now they play the original soundtrack throughout the park nice there you go I will say that counts as you know more Star Wars spin off stuff and I don't know have you been to Galaxy's edge and gone on the rides yes I've been once okay once that that not the the ride that's in the Millennium Falcon that one's kind of lame but the the other ride is kind of remarkable. It is it is and okay I'm I'm full disclosure like we we were blessed with I mean shout out to John Fletchis that used to come to the shop he would work security at the uh at Disneyland and he's like I can I want to like bless your family by getting them in at a better rate and so I was like oh my gosh yeah because I was like there's no way we can take our kids and so we got there now typical Disney were like we got to visit this rise of the resistance ride we've heard so much and there it's like a two and a half hour wait and they're like you can get on this other list for an extra 20 bucks per kid and I'm like no it's not gonna happen but thankfully at the end of the day there was like nobody in line we rushed in we made it maybe waited half an hour and I was so determined to be like this is just going to be more kitschy crap. And at the end I was like that was one of the most impressive rides I've been on like and it was cool to have my kids actually experience it. Yeah and it's one of those things that is so different and so special that it's hard to describe to people who haven't been on it I feel like I feel like it it took the immersiveness of the Indiana Jones ride and turned it up by like to dial 10. Wow and just because not all of it is a ride. So much of it is even utilizing the the walking through to get to that and I was like okay this is well thought through I enjoy it. I agree super cool. Very quickly we should probably take a pause talk a little bit about Pagliacci Ascuro from the cigar clowns. We do call this cigars and cinema after all it is it is uh now this is a prime example of not too little bread uh butter being spread over this is in my opinion this cigar is what the portfolio of cigar clowns needed and that is a a more like dense heavy full flavored Nicaraguan kind of return to roots of where the clowns kind of really launched but on top of that like you could technically say value priced but this cigar is not smoking like a value priced cigar it's brilliant I get um on the retrohale now even kind of more like intense that that that like like I said that's kind of you know uh um uh acidic thing is still there yeah but I feel like the buttery toasty biscuity thing is also now being enhanced in the retrohale definitely yeah yeah it's really nice I would say for me strength level is probably maybe medium plus it's really not too strong not too heavy um but really full flavor that butteriness that you're mentioning the acidic aspect a hint of some kind of like spiciness on the retro it's not too much um and also botanical in a few ways I'm getting a few like botanical notes yeah that makes sense to me I see what you're talking about and I think too what's interesting is a lot of times my mind and I think a lot of consumer mind goes to darker oscuro is going to mean dark chocolate dark cocoa I'm not really getting a bunch of that on this cigar right now no no it's a um unique flavor profile for what you might expect from a cigar that has this uh makeup yes a hundred percent and what's really cool too is I really enjoy their packaging uh how they package this in unique five packs so not only is the price amazing but also like so often it's like okay pick a five pack you're you're breaking up a box to get a bundle of five these come packaged in these five packs which I think is an added touch that I think is smart and I wish a lot of other cigar companies kind of jumped on doing stuff like that because I think it's an added flair perfect execution it's starting off great um I know I should ash this thing because it's gonna fall but it's it's uh holding its ash really well burning really well so very impressive so far. Sweet okay so before we I I know that we can talk all night about all the things wrong with some of these series is what is a series that you feel like you not only enjoyed but you're like this adds something to the Star Wars universe.
SPEAKER_00Well this is very easy for me um you know uh Rogue One came out in 2016 um not a great movie but not a terrible movie either uh had it you know I I think that you know if you're gonna try to like you know delve into the the backstory you know like hey what can what other stories can we tell that like sit inside the universe that the larger narrative that you already know that one little line from the opening crawl where it says the you know rebels have just won their first major victory like you know oh what's that story and that's what they made rogue one out of right it's got problems you know I we I mean I could rant that movie I could rant a lot about that movie but then they were like hey we're gonna make a TV show about not even the protagonist of that show the second like the secondary guy Cassian Andor played by Diego Luna we're gonna turn his like backstory into a a TV show and I was like groan really like what the heck are you thinking? Yeah Andor seasons one and two are the best Star Wars thing that has been made maybe even better than Last Jedi you know how much I love last Jedi Andor is a a a a gift it's a miracle it's ridiculous I can't believe how good that TV show is it is aimed at adults it's not for kids. And you know you we can talk about whether or not that's like a good or bad thing for Star Wars to do um but the thing that makes it so remarkable to me is that all these other shows we've been talking about like Mandalorian and Obi-Wan and stuff they're about Star Wars. It's like hey remember this Star Wars thing we're gonna re we're gonna hash up you know dig up all these memories and just you know put a new coat of paint on them and ha, there you go. Remember Star Wars and but original Star Wars wasn't that original Star Wars was you know Lucas telling a story about you know uh mythological tropes and his perspective on the Vietnam War and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01And that's what Andor is Andor is a movie about how um uh fascism happens in societies and it's pulling from lots of you know our actual history uh you know 20th century in particular but not exclusively um to tell a story about how like you know how scary it is to rebel against a power and you know how these small breakdowns of you know freedom and stuff turn into this suddenly this monstrous uh empire that like you know you can't you can't fight easily um yeah andor is amazing i'm okay sad because i know you haven't watched it yet and no i know i i i need to watch it it hurts me with every fiber of my being because um for me uh i can't answer that question that i co pose to you and that's like what is a series that's actually good i haven't seen one yet but i also haven't seen andor so i should probably do myself a favor and actually just go through it um because i know you've talked high praise about it and i i need to give it a watch um but i i'm not gonna lie it is a barrier hearing the like premise that i was like what i why why would i watch this um especially in the backdrop of Obi-Wan Mandalorian Book of Boba Fett I'm just like I just I don't see that but off of your recommendation yeah I will I will make it I mean really the justification is is is what I just said is that it's actually trying to be about something and investigate ideas you know thematic ideas that are relevant to to Star Wars but it's not trying to play on nostalgia or rehash stuff that you already know and then on top of that just like the quality of the dialogue the quality of the performances quality of the production design this is an incredible i i i can't believe that Disney green lit this it's like too good okay well and you had mentioned like it for better or worse it's aimed towards adults I think it's a breath of fresh air because we have enough of the other stuff um and and the point you made about quality of dialogue that is something that I think almost all Star Wars movies have a a handicap in is dialogue. You can have people like Iwan McGregor you can have people like Al Guinness in Harrison Ford these amazing actors giving these lines and they're doing the best but sometimes you're like ooh they could have written that differently we we uh I think one of the reasons that we love Empire Strikes Back is that that was written by Lawrence Castan and Lee Brackett and particularly Lee Brackett has a uh uh history in Hollywood going way back with um like some noir stuff and if you think about like the sort of combative conversations between Leia and Han as they're circling a relationship it it has that feeling to it right and I so I think that you know that that's an example where yeah when you get people who know the rhythms of that speech then you get stuff like Empire which we fall in love with yeah even something as subtle as uh the the call back to I love you I know certain stuff like that like that yeah that is seems a bit of a higher bar than we see in the other maybe then Anakin you're breaking my heart so stuff like that uh Brian is saying don't feel too bad Eric I haven't seen it either which is a shame so Brian Brian I know Brian with your history background and you know just love of all that kind of thing like it should be at the top of your list.
SPEAKER_00We gotta watch it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah for sure. Because yeah like I said there's not a series so far that I can say that really ended positive. I even here here's a good testament too to where it's not just my opinion where I think Disney is going wrong. They came out with another series called Skeleton Crew with you'd love this show was completely if I feel like launched for younger generation kids. That's what I heard. I and Clark who uh at the time we were watching it was uh nine no eight he was only eight years old we got three episodes in he's all I'm bored okay didn't want to watch it and I'm like this is the kid also who have who has sat through some Errol Flynn movies this is a kid who has like uh watched Lord of the rings extended cut with like and he's just like yeah that was just kind of boring and I'm like I'm bored I'm glad you're saying it because I don't have to watch it but no yeah that one I never watched yeah and and then there's a bunch of them that they've made that I didn't watch I didn't watch Ahsoka I didn't watch um the Acolyte I think I heard one of those horrible things about the Acolyte yeah yeah and that's where we get to just the characters of like does this really matter I mean I guess if you were invested growing up into the clone war series which I never really watched I didn't think either there there must have been some draw with Ahsoka with that yes um but acolyte yeah some of these ideas um but before before we move on too much I just gotta go on a mini rant about rogue one please yes go so so rogue one uh has a really cool opening like the imperial camps and stuff I was like when I saw this in the theater this was still before I was jaded by Star Wars and I was like oh this is gonna be really cool and as the story progresses um I couldn't find a single character to invest in then you have like these these weird tropey like spin-off characters of like dark side c3 po and then you have yard sale darth Vader who breathes like on same like respiratory system he has to have this thing to breathe but he's like pieced together you have Jackie Chan with it like with like a and I know I've written ranted to you about this before but this movie spends so much time at the end like the it's drawn out with the battle that you literally have to spend half an hour watching the same characters die twice on screen. Right that to me I'm like this is poor construction the idea was cool but by the end I was just like I cannot do this movie.
SPEAKER_00It yeah I don't know a lot of people love it I don't I don't understand it I I think that I like that movie more than the sum of its parts because you're not wrong. It's got a lot of those issues that you just referred to there's structural things you can tell that they rewrote it in the middle of filming. Tony Gilroy who is the guy who is the showrunner on Andor came in to try and kind of like as I understand it save rogue one because I guess it was kind of a mess.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And uh you know you can you can sense a little bit of his sensibilities in it but it's still a Gareth Edwards movie. And Gareth Edwards is good at visuals and bad at almost everything else. Um so uh you know there's only so much you can do with a movie that's like mostly shot unless you just spend the money to redo the entire thing which would be stupid and and I think it's it's a hard task for the audience not to somehow subconsciously pick up on those issues when they're watching it.
SPEAKER_01Of course yeah yeah yeah um we have a really interesting comment I like this a lot from Mike saying with the rise of Amazon Paramount Apple TV and of course Netflix if Disney wants to stay relevant with Star Wars series where do they go from here? That's an interesting interesting question.
SPEAKER_00Well um I might be speaking to an audience of one here but I know what I want to see um which is you know I've kind of alluded it to it already in this uh um episode which is um you know we fell in love with all those other Star Wars things because they were doing their own thing yes right carving out their own identity justifying their existence by telling a new story with new characters or you know at least reusing old characters in a um um uh meaningful way um Do do that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, I don't need to learn more about Obi-Wan's backstory where he's running around, you know, getting into hijinks. I don't need to learn more about other characters' backstories like Boba Fett, which you know, like we already explained why that was bad. Like, give give me more new. I want more new. This is such a big, colorful, potentially fascinating universe. You could go in so many directions, and we don't need to keep revisiting the same five character groups over and over and over and over and over again. Right.
SPEAKER_01Right. I I would agree with that. I think that um for all the reasons of Jaws, for all the reasons of Ferris Bueller, the reason or Breakfast Club, these movies are iconic. Yeah, the story is pretty decent, but uh the character development and the performances and the dialogue is what make these movies so memorable. Yeah, if you can infuse a Star Wars movie, which I haven't seen it in a very long time, with that type of aspect, then you can create something new. Yeah. Instead of trying to piggyback, like you were saying, on the nostalgia factor, and if you can come up with something original but have engaging characters you actually care about, um you're right. The backdrop is very vast and pretty open to what you can do. I think the one thing I would say is if you're gonna pull anything from the originals or anything, I think it's a no-brainer that people enjoy the Jedi and Sith conflict.
SPEAKER_00They do.
SPEAKER_01Um but at the same time, like there are ways to explore that in an original way that really has nothing to do with the other characters, and and like rewatching Rise of Skywalker, the element I feel like they missed out on is the uh ixicle like planet or whatever of the Sith in so much lore and stuff like that, like especially on screen, we haven't really seen like, unless I'm mistaken, but like like Sith temples and stuff like that. Like, if you really kind of lean into the aspect of like good versus evil on a Sith and Jedi originality aspect, I think you could probably go better than what you're at right now.
SPEAKER_00I think you could too. I mean, uh the that media certainly exists, like I said, in the books and other stuff. I mean, there's definitely people who have told those stories before, but it's never been done on like a big scale, big screen, you know, for a really big audience. Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, even though I I hate the movie I'm about to reference, yeah. Like, you know, make make the Joker of Star Wars, like do an all villain thing or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and actually, on that, I will say, for what it is, I mean, it's got a lot of problems, but so far I haven't completely hated the new Maul Shadow Lord series. So Clark, this is something he wanted to watch, and I was like, Yeah, let's give it a watch. I mean, I remember as a kid being all about Darth Maul. Um, for what it's trying to do and the effort it's putting into it. Um, I'll at least give it like not a completely negative review. I don't know if you've seen it or seen anything from it or anything.
SPEAKER_00I haven't yet. Um, I've actually mostly on purpose avoided the animated stuff that comes out of Dave Faloni. He did the Clone Wars and Rebels. Um, because I watched that Clone Wars movie and it was bad. And then I tried to watch the first episode or so of the TV show, and not only did I not like where it was going with the characters and the writing, and it was just like nothing's drawing me in here. The art direction for that animation style that they use in those, I think, is aggressively ugly, like it turns me off to look at.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So no, I I I could totally watch it. No, no, for sure. I I think that uh in the the art style, the one thing I think they get really well is actually lighting in it. Um, I appreciate like when they're using that. I mean, it's definitely hokey, but I do think it's an added plus that um Richard Aote uh does the voice of one of the characters. I think he's pretty funny. Yeah, um, but overall, like it could it could be a lot worse. So I'll give it a little bit of a high praise for that.
SPEAKER_00There's uh I think there's one more elephant in the room that we need to talk about, which is solo uh movie.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I didn't finish it. Uh I really yeah, no, I couldn't finish it. I got pretty far. I got about an hour and a half in, and I was just like, I can't do this movie anymore.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna like a broken record here, but I I think that it commits those same sins that we were talking about, which is like, okay, if you're gonna delve into Han Solo's backstory, there better be a damn good reason why. And it better show like give me new context or reveal a part of his backstory that I didn't know, or if it's something uh that I do know, show it to me in an interesting way. And I think it fails on almost all those objectives, right? Um the because it's supposed to be about how a good-natured guy turns into the cynical uh rogue that we meet in a new hope, right? Right, because he's got a big chip on his shoulder and he doesn't think anything matters, right? This was supposed to tell that story, and by the end of the movie, he's like happy and hopeful, and we find out he had already helped the rebellion, kind of it's like, what are you even doing? Yeah, and it's just uh a checklist of how Han Solo got his stuff. Here's how we got his blaster, here's how we got his spaceship, here's how we got his name. Oh, wait to reveal how his name is Solo is so like nails on a chalkboard atrocious. I can't believe they thought that was a good idea.
SPEAKER_01It is, and yeah, I think um it almost intentionally felt like alienating an audience. Um, and it's just yeah, I mean, I I remember moments of it. I remember when yeah, he gets his name, and when they're trying to do a Kessel run, and I was just like, No, this is yeah, this is not good.
SPEAKER_00Um it's I I thought it was like a passable space adventure movie as a Star Wars movie, and specifically a Star Wars movie about this beloved character's backstory, it's almost unforgivable.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so this is how bad that movie left an impression on me, and how much I wanted to remember it. I legitimately get characters mixed up from uh Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and in that movie. Isn't that is that no? Okay, it's different movies, like they're just so inherently molded together. And I was actually uh listening to someone talk about this, and I and I agree with it. Um, an indication that tells you that Disney is on the wrong path for Star Wars, or at the very much, maybe not even Disney, just it's inflated right now. Yeah, is that when the prequels were coming out, even after Attack of the Clones, um, even up to Force Awakens, when a movie was coming out in the theater that was Star Wars, it was hard to get a ticket. Like it was a thing to do. This is what you do, of course. Uh now I went to Mandalorian Grogu because that's what we're talking about next week. Yes, and uh the this is the second day this movie came out, and the theater is not even like uh half full. Really? Maybe not even a third full. Yikes, it it was it was kind of a ghost town, and I was like, wait, this movie, I was like, It's a movie been out for a week, right? No, it came out a day before we went. It was, and I'm like, okay, obviously Star Wars had a heyday and it's not right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's true, which is sad to hear. Yeah, I mean, you know, and you know, maybe that opens up the conversation of whether or not it's like even obviously it's still around because we love it so much, but is it the kind of thing where maybe the best move is to be done with Star Wars, if not completely, at least for a while, right? Like make us make us miss it, yeah. Let the creators spend time coming up with really good reasons to justify the stories they're gonna tell, rather than just like, oh, we gotta have product, you know, to keep eyeball to keep the Disney Plus subscription going, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it's true, and now it's no longer like, Oh, what are the the let's watch Star Wars for the event? It's now okay, you go to Disney Plus and you have uh a series, Marvel, a series Star Wars, and it's all those things. Um and uh Andrew here has a comment no more midnight showings, it's a shame. I attribute it to Last Jedi, that's why. No, but uh now obviously inflation is a major key to this. But do you happen to know the biggest grossing Star Wars movie out of the nine that came out in the box office? You mean if you adjust for inflation, not if you adjust, it's like based on purely numbers.
SPEAKER_00Because uh, I believe it's Force Awakens, it is, yeah, which was which is interesting.
SPEAKER_01So you have you have the separation original trilogy and then prequel trilogy, and then that, and showing the anticipation, even up to 2016. Now, 10 years later, and that's the result that shows to me, like, okay, well, maybe you're headed the wrong direction.
SPEAKER_00I mean, part of that is not unique to Star Wars, cinema attendance in general has been on a decline for years, and it's gonna continue to do that because just the way the media landscape has changed, right? You know, we've got big screen TVs and theaters in our homes and streaming and stuff comes out, you know, uh half a second after they release it in theaters, so you don't even have to go to the theater if you don't want to. Like, you know, that's affecting everything, yeah. But I think with Star Wars, there's also this added layer of they're just not telling essential enough stories, they're not making us want to go because ooh, I I'm so enticed. You know, this is you know, I again I haven't watched Mandalorian and Grogery yet. I'll see it uh in a few days. But you know, I get the gist that it's like, hey, this is just a longer, more expensive episode of the TV show, and it's like for the audience who's already accustomed to watching that on Disney Plus, they're like, Oh, I can just wait.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, and to your point, it's true what you're saying about I agree 100% with the the cinema attendance being down, but at the same time, movies like Star Wars are the ones you are supposed to see on the big screen, absolutely, and and superhero movies are suffering from the suffering from the same thing, and I think partly is you look at like let's say the Batman Begins Dark Knight trilogy, you're going to see Batman, you want to go see it on the big screen, but also because you have this added layer of Chris Nolan and his cinematography and his vision is gonna look great. Now it's just like, well, it's a it's a video game that's a movie, that's what I'm gonna see on a big screen, and I think that also plays a factor. I think so too. Yeah, uh Brian Brian's saying uh Spaceballs 2 will help with Star Wars. Maybe. Um, but we're winding down here, so let's uh let's talk final third uh in this pagliacci. I'm getting uh a decent amount of like a savory element, um, that butteriness is still going through. The herbal note is also coming forward. Um, maybe like a type of like tea aspect. Um, some of these things are playing on around.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, I think the biggest difference I'm noticing now is on the retrohale, that kind of acidic note that I was referring to earlier has kind of combined with something that's also maybe uh a little bit bitter or astringent, but not in a gross way, and it's like a really interesting, you know, again, the way that you know an adult palate will like uh, you know, the flavor of you know neat spirits or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. Uh there's a nice little complexity and uh uh almost aggressiveness, I think, in the the retrohale there that I'm liking.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I feel like uh you know how we've talked before about tones, treble tones, bass tones. It's definitely gotten sharper, more of the treble aspect for me. For sure. Yeah, which is again, uh, you see a lot more common when it comes to uh like lighter cigars, darker cigars. You see more of a a bitter, a darker type of aspect. And this is kind of doing the reverse. Yeah. All right, so let's go ahead and uh rate Pagliacci scale from one to ten for this cigar. This is the Oscuro, and they released in two. They did it at Claro and Oscuro, so we're smoking the Maduro version. And I have a you got 7.5, I got an eight. So pretty, pretty darn close. Yeah, excellent.
SPEAKER_00I like the flavor on this a lot, and that extra half a point is because holy cow, the price is nuts, is nuts.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I think the clowns uh did a really good job on this. Jason's saying I give it an 8.5, so he's up there as well.
SPEAKER_00Nice.
SPEAKER_01So there we go. Okay. Now we promise, guys, next week will be the final Star Wars topic.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we probably won't have to do Star Wars anything ever again on Cigar Crusader. And I I love Star Wars, but um yeah, it'll it it I think this will be a a nice way to close it out. I'm sure it relates to a lot of things we've been talking about tonight.
SPEAKER_01And it was kind of topical, it was kind of uh part of why we went with it this uh month, but uh Mandalorian and Grogu just came out, uh directed by John Favreau. And so we're gonna be talking about that, the latest Star Wars movie that's in theaters right now. We're gonna be talking about next week on Cigars and Cinema podcast, uh, and smoking another cigar. Uh, we'll take one final comment. Daniel Frazier saying a combination of expenses to go to theaters and lackluster movies has been a huge downtake. Of course. I agree. Definitely. Um, but thank you guys for joining us tonight uh on our second to last episodes of Star Wars, and we will see you next week to review the newest movie that came out in theaters. So thanks for hanging out with us tonight.
SPEAKER_00May the force be with us.
SPEAKER_01It'll have to be.
