Cigars and Cinema Podcast
Every cigar is smoked in thirds: First third, second, and final, just as every Movie is performed in three acts. Join Eric Drazin and Mike Coleman to delve into the world of cigars and movies as they analyze, break down, and critique cigars and films as each progress.
Cigars and Cinema Podcast
"Oh Brother Where Art Thou?" Ep. 111 6/18/26
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Join Eric and Curtis on a journey in Americana, as a new series begins with the Coen Brothers' classic film Oh Brother, Where Art Thou. Curtis has gone on record as saying he enjoys this movie; Eric has not. Let's see how this shakes out! Light up a cigar from the newest OGT Variety release!
Bleak Midwinter IV LINK: https://oakglentobacconist.com/product/bleak-midwinter-iv-box-pressed-belicoso-5-5x54/
Sign up for the OGT Cigar Society Subscription
https://oakglentobacconist.com/product/ogt-monthly-subscription/
Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema. Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's journey into another episode of Smoke and Scream. Today's episode of Cigars Custom is coming to you from the OTT Cigars site enjoy five half three of custom cigars each month at an undeniable price. Join the community and smoke with us on the Oakland Tobacchinist YouTube channel as we delve into the rich experience of OT Craft Cigars and many cigars and bipolas custom made just for our membership. If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the subscription and the whole host of these cigars, visit us at www.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars. Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode, another Tuesday night of Cigars and Cinema Podcast. We're really looking forward to this episode. We're back on movies. We've kind of moved away from series uh in terms of like just structure and Star Wars out of the weeds of Star Wars. Right. Um, but I am one of your hosts, Eric Drazen from OGT Cigars, coming to you from the West Coast in North Carolina and joining me from the sorry East Coast. On the West Coast right now, we have joining me Curtis Bailey. Sorry, I'm still getting mixed up with West Coast, East Coast.
SPEAKER_01You think like a year later it'll find that it's all good. Um yeah, um I'm hoping that uh at you know throughout the show tonight that we don't find ourselves in a tight spot.
SPEAKER_00Dang, we're in a tight spot. So, guys, thank you joining us uh every Tuesday night, same time, six o'clock Pacific Standard, nine o'clock Eastern Standard, where we discuss movies and we discuss cigars as we go through the OGT Variety Club. And if you'd like to go through it with us, check out the variety club at OGT, and you can be smoking the same things no matter how obscure or boutique or short run they might seem. If you're part of the variety, you'll be smoking the same thing with us, which is pretty cool. Uh, we've got uh couple comments here, which is great, coming from RJ. And before I pull this up, as usual, uh, I will encourage you, please drop down your comments. What are you enjoying tonight? Are you pairing anything? What are your thoughts on the movie, etc.? RJ says, hello, Eric and Curtis. Looking forward to the show tonight. Tonight I am smoking an Emerald Night. Need to make some room in the humidor for the next OGT Cigar Society drop. The new drop looks awesome. It's funny how you can run out of room really quick in your humidors. We were just talking about this off-screen about uh how quickly things can uh move.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there are times where just kind of like the cycle of stuff that I buy from you, and also like when the society or other stuff come in, and then uh, you know, depending on like you know, just what my weekly habit is like, if I push hard on a Saturday and I have like six, sometimes that humidora can like rise and fall drastically. I'm like, this is alarming for me. I need to I need I need to stabilize myself.
SPEAKER_00There you go, find the rhythm or the routine. Um, also, RJ was mentioning the new society drop. So I'm gonna bring this up because I'm very excited about this. Uh, the next society drop was announced, and it's also available outside as well. This is the third installment, and this is the third, and it's gonna be a while until we see another night. We're kind of aging and working on future projects for what is going to dawn the night, but for this one kind of for the summer, hurrah, is the Onyx night known as the Shadow Ranger. Um, this is a very, very special Mexican San Andreas Maduro coming from Stolen Throne. If you guys have smoked Stolen Throne, you guys know the caliber that Lee Marsh is capable of. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah plus also just for for you and Andrew and Mallory, whoever was like behind the branding decisions on this one, there's a lot of things you could have gone with as a substitute for black, but yeah, that goes to my wife, Mallory.
SPEAKER_00She had mentioned a few things. I was like, Yeah, I came up with Shadow Ranger, but she came up with Onyx Knight. Yeah, um, I told Andrew in the concept art because by this point we had had the crimson and the emerald already like crafted, and I was like, for this one, I think it would be cool if he's like hooded, if he's like kind of shrouded. Uh, and so yeah, he did a great job. Mallory did a great job designing the label, and Lee did a great job uh with the cigar. So um, this is the first night in the series. This is number three, but this is the first one that will be available initially right before the society drops. So if you're a society member, you will get the cigar for sure. It is secured for you already. But also, we're dropping a small amount this Friday, six o'clock Pacific Standard, nine o'clock Eastern. Um, I'm super excited. We did the same thing with doctor's orders, and I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks about it. So super excited for it. Um, let's see here. Onions, David is on saying, Hey guys, I'm smoking the uh free on oh Freedom Fighter with bourbon. There you go. Are you pairing anything tonight, Curtis? Uh just my standard issue, old-fashioned. Okay, okay. I'm still I'm still nursing the water as the humidity still is here. Um, but I can say for the really hot days here in the studio, we finally have an AC sit situation mapped out. So nice. Yes. We no longer look like we're just like dripping in sweat.
SPEAKER_01Uh I also took a page out of your book uh last week and uh went and got one of those little freestanding portable um swamp coolers to put out on my patio.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. Makes the difference in the world. It's a nice upgrade. Nice, nice. RJ's also saying it's tough for me since I don't have a central air conditioning and it's hot and humid in Philly. So I can't leave my cigars out in the humidors because it would be a mess uh with uh temperature and RH. Um, yeah, that's something that's really interesting. Um I am very, very like relieved too when we installed our humidor that it does have air conditioning in the humidor. So while we're like dying in the studio, year cigars are comfortable. Priorities. That's right. Priorities. Um, and really quick before we dive into it, just from news from California, I hear there's a fire going on around there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's over off uh San Timateo somewhere to the uh west. Um I I I I haven't been that close to it. There was much less smoke in the sky today than there was yesterday.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha, gotcha. Well, that's that's good. I heard it might be getting contained somewhat, but I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. I still have like I saw the text message from my family come up, and I still had that like like moment because of all the fires. Yeah, never leaves you. Uh Daniel Frazier says, Evening, fam. It's way too hot and humid and stormy outside to smoke, just sipping on tea tonight. Well, thanks for still hanging out with us. You could do worse. Yes. Okay, so let's jump into it. We are uh continuing our voyage into the OGT variety pack that was dropped. It was Maduro Madness Month. And I have to confess the cigar we're smoking tonight was purely out of that looks really good. I'm really in the mood for that cigar. Works for me. There you go. So tonight we're gonna be lighting up the most recent uh St. Patrick's Day exclusive bleak midwinter four. This is a five and a half by 56 box press bellicoso. It has a Brazilian Madafina wrapper with a twist of candela underneath Nicaraguan binder and fillers. Um I know we've both smoked this, but I would like to do a live review.
SPEAKER_01I think we'd be like, Yeah, no, we'll just do the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00All right, so we got a cold draw happening here.
SPEAKER_01This is another uh this is another Vitola that I really like. It's just also with the candela, it's it's a pretty thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I this cigar, I always get this like zing of like herbal note, black licorice, and like sweetness.
SPEAKER_01I get like dusty matcha.
SPEAKER_00Or okay, matcha, I can see that too. Yeah. Alright, so we're gonna go ahead and light this up and see where Bleak Midwinter starts. Every cigar leaves an impression.
SPEAKER_01However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00So enjoy your cigar as you light it up. Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
SPEAKER_01In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface. So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
SPEAKER_00So this uh I think forever this cigar will remind me of March because prior to the release I was smoking the heck out of these. Quality control, you know. Of course. I I really enjoy this, and I don't know, because this is our fourth one. I don't know if it's just because it's been so long since I had the first bleak midwinter that I say this might be my favorite, but I can say I do think I enjoy it more than the previous two years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this one is solid. Um I think one of the things that I like about this is that um at least on light up, it's one of those cigars where all the notes in the flavor profile feel really unified. Uh you know, it's not like um, you know, eating certain kind of like, you know, salad type things where you're like, oh, suddenly there's a crouton in this bite, and then you know, next one, oh, there's a piece of chicken in that bite. So, you know, like uh this is more like you know what you get when you put a bunch of ingredients together and blend it into a salsa or a soup or something. You know, all the notes need to be there, and you know, when one of them is not there, you kind of notice an imbalance, but you're also not like tasting the individual things so much as like the new thing that has been created by all of them being together, and that's what this one is like for me.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, I I see exactly what you're talking about. Well, well put together. Uh, it's not pulling you in too many different areas, and it's also not like too sharp in one area and too dull in another. Um, I anticipate the cigar also aging really well as it continues. Um, in terms of flavor notes, of course, on the retro, um, what I had kind of when we were going through with the blender on this, I was like, I definitely want there to be a force and a punch. Because with Bleakman Winter, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I think I would be let down if it was a very like mild to medium blend. Right. Um, but it I wouldn't say it's crazy full either. I would say medium plus strength. Um, so you get that little bit of like hint of pepper spice up front, or maybe cinnamon, maybe cinnamon's a better way to put it than pepper.
SPEAKER_01Um, because yeah, or maybe or maybe even maybe even a little bit of both, honestly. Like I said, because the flavors are so unified, you know, it feels like there's just gradients from one thing to another, and you can draw a gradient from black pepper to cinnamon, right? You know, so true. I feel like it's that level of elegance, sophisticated. I don't know what the right word is there, but I agree.
SPEAKER_00And and along with some of the like the deeper notes to it, um, a little bit of I won't say this is like crazy pronounced, but you I mean you have some of those like darker cocoa-y notes, but I think on the end, there's a hint of like lemongrass for me. Oh, like a little I recognize what you're talking about. Okay, and yeah, I'm like maybe it's citrus, maybe it's uh it's it's herbal or something, but lemongrass is like really what comes to mind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and uh I get um uh there seems to be like a center, it's not again, it's not shouting at you because, like I said, this one of the things that's great here is that this is so balanced, but there's definitely for me something that is putting in me in the mind of like a cedar or similar character, yes, and it's funny because uh what really helped my palette out quite a bit is two years ago when we went to PCA in New Orleans, we went to the Sazerac house, and they have like at the multiple levels, and I I know you've been there, right? Indeed, yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you know, like how you go to different levels and different stages of stuff, and there's a room where it's just a bunch of like jars of spices that you smell. And I remember getting to several, I was like, Oh, okay, that's interesting. And I came to lemongrass. I'm like, this is the note I can never pinpoint, and so that really helped me out.
SPEAKER_01Get it, get it tattooed on your forearm. There you go.
SPEAKER_00What is this? That's right, it smells up. Um, okay, so we are starting our newest kind of lead up to uh July 4th because it is 250 years uh birthday of America. That's right, which is pretty cool, pretty, pretty historical.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, and I I have a strange personal context there because I was born just after the bicentennial. Okay, so that means I've been alive for one-fifth of America's existence as a country, and that feels weird.
SPEAKER_00I was about to say, how does that make you feel? Simil similarly, okay. This is not on the same level, but that concept of like it hitting you. Uh, I was we were working in the garage and we took a break, and I decided to show Mina Air Force One. And I was like, one, I was like, I cannot believe I was able to watch this movie when I was like seven. This movie is violent, but it is I was I was pleasantly surprised. I was like, it's not as bad as I was thinking it was going to be. But the thing that hit me is next year that movie's 30 years old. There you go. That's wild. Okay, but the movie we're talking about tonight, we're gonna be going through uh several films that have to do with certain eras, certain times in history, or historically significant films or moments in our um uh in America's history. Uh this was basically your pixel. If you want to give the introduction to this movie, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We watched uh Oh Brother, where art thou from I think 2000.
SPEAKER_00Uh yes, year 2000.
SPEAKER_01Made by the Cone Brothers. And you know, I I when we were throwing around the idea of doing this, you know, movies about America in the lead up to uh the 250th, uh, I was thinking, you know, it's really easy to go with uh you know things like war movies and you know other things that are kind of like straightforwardly uh intently about America. This one's a little bit more subtle and it's you know not about a major event or historical figures, it's really it's a it's a fictional story that's adapted from another fictional story, but they use that as a lens through which to look at some stuff that defines America. So I thought it was a good kind of you know, interesting, different choice to start off with.
SPEAKER_00Definitely, and I don't think I had seen this movie for over 10 years. Um, so I'm interested to talk about it because I know that we had talked a little bit about it at the shop. Um, but we would oh when it would come up, I was always not a fan of this. Cohen brothers are interesting to me because there are some movies that they have done that I've really liked, and then there's some I've really not liked.
SPEAKER_01I get that.
SPEAKER_00Um, so it'll be interesting. Now, this was the seventh movie from the Cone uh from Joel Cohen, at least it had that wasn't a short. Um Brother War Art Thou, yes, made in 2000, rated PG 13, a run hour of one hour and 47 minutes. Uh in the deep south during the 1930s, three escaped convicts search for hidden treasure with a relentless lawman pursuing them. Uh it's got pretty big names George Clooney, Tim Blake Nelson, John Taturo, John Goodman, Holly Hunter, um, Charles uh Derning, and the list goes on. So quite a big cast.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, what would you say? Would you would you say that this movie stacks up of one of your like more top-tier Cohen Brother movies, lower tier or like mid-range?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, this is probably in the top tier for me. I I like this movie quite a bit, and obviously we're gonna talk about the reasons why, but um uh well, and I I like it for a variety of reasons. Uh, you know, um obviously we're gonna be talking about some of the thematic stuff tonight in regards to how it's talking about America, but I think the characters are really well defined. I like the dialogue in this movie. Um uh I think it's funny, uh, and I like the look of it. We've got some stuff we can talk about with how it's it was shot too. Um, so like broadly, it's kind of hitting on all categories for me. I think.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah. I mean, I would say it's probably mid-range for me. I definitely enjoyed it more second time around. Um, you're right. I think the dialogue really has a lot going for it. Um, and especially too, I think the uh temptation maybe would be a lot of the times when you're dealing with the 30s or 40s and remakes were moved moved in that era. A lot of the colorfulness of the language comes from like kind of the transatlantic accent, the fast dealing, like back and forth. I think a lot of the colorful moments in this movie is actually the southern accents and the dumbing down of dialogue in terms of like run out and and such like that. I think it really works as a good flavor for this movie. Yeah, I agree. Um, so overall, it is an allegory, or I guess a a version, a rendition of Homer's Odyssey, which I also think is rather timely given the fact that this new Odyssey movie's coming out. Um, how do you feel like it in terms of like is this a formula that works? We see this a lot with Shakespeare. It's like Shakespeare in the modern day, and this and that, and this. This was Homer's project. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01Um, I I like that aspect of the movie. Um, and you don't need to know that uh the the story of the Odyssey in order for the references that it makes here to like work, you know, they still function as just plot developments in this, but um I think potentially what the uh Coens were going for with that is that um so much of what we grow up learning and believing about the United States is borderline mythology. Um, so I feel like that they were trying to do, you know, sort of a uh a sort of synergy there with you know, borrowing from this other mythological tale. And also just it's a nice structure, right? You know, this you know, a man trying to get home and there's all these obstacles in the way, and uh, you know, they are able to able to take some of those and adapt them to you know give this uh a little bit of a mythological feel, like with the blind guy at the beginning on the train track who foresees their future, you know, it gives a little bit of mysticism to this story, and uh I I like that flavor too.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I think they handle it really well because often a movie that has a really good, like profound I don't know, message movement behind it uh doesn't always take itself crazy seriously. There's a little bit of tongue-in-cheek to it. Um, and I think that formula served them well in this movie. Um, because while we're dealing with the Odyssey and really some pretty heavy notions of like divine intervention and uh things that you've done in the past, can you be forgiven for? Can you change all those types of things? It also is done with to a backdrop that's somewhat whimsical, I guess you could say. Um I agree with that, sure. I I think it actually works in their favor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um overall, I think one of the things that's really successful about this movie is um is the tone, how all the different things that are in there, kind of like the cigar we're smoking tonight, I guess, where you know, you've got this, these kind of you know, uh uh uh self-aware comedic bits and these slightly mythological things going on, and uh, you know, some uh uh allusions to real life people like uh um babyface Nelson, you know, like yeah, there's all these disparate things, but the way that they're put together, and then I feel like the the the color grading, how the whole movie has this like amber, uh you know, uh a dusty appearance to it, that's like the shell that kind of is holding all of this together. So yeah, I don't know. It it it's it feels almost a little bit like of a magic trick to me. I and I don't I don't think this movie's like perfect, but um uh all these funky things thrown together work well so that the whole piece is kind of speaking in the same voice, and I I think that's cool.
SPEAKER_00Now, for a portion of this, like the I guess a through line that I noticed this time that I didn't last time is in the beginning you have these three escaped convicts, and George Clooney's character says we we have to make it at this certain time because otherwise the dam is gonna blow up, we're gonna lose all the treasure, it's gonna be at the bottom of the river. We've got to make it there, and the treasure, of course, being tons of money, and that on the surface are what convicts would probably be looking for in the Great Depression, like is money, riches. But the amount of times that they come across, and even money is dropped like literally in their lap. Yes, um, you never see it basically take George Clean's character, like the eye off of the the ball, yeah. And whether he knew it or didn't, it still was the same as that case. His true treasure being that his home, his wife, and it was gonna blow up at the end, anyways. And he really had those amount of days. Yeah. So I think that works. And I think it's cool kind of to have those moments of of like. Of wealth kind of flush through them. It's like easy come, easy go. That's not really what we're trying to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I want to talk about the characters a little for a little bit. Um, you know, the like we said, this came out in 2000, and um in the late 90s, George Clooney was still kind of a uh a TV actor, and he hadn't really turned into uh like a prestigious thespian yet. You know, he had done he had done Batman and Robin, uh right and uh you know um a few other you know kind of rom comedy type things and whatnot, and it wasn't until he's like got kind of frustrated with you know doing that angle on his career that he was able to land out of sight and then this movie, where not only did it change his career, but it made me go, Wow, this dude is really good, because I think he's fantastic in this. I love his character in this movie.
SPEAKER_00In fact, we I I watched it with Mallory and Andrew, and uh Andrew had remarked, he's like, It's actually good to see him in a role like this instead of him just trying to be George Clooney. Um, which no, I can definitely see. I mean, and I I really feel like I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but not long after he did Ocean's 11, and that's what really like pushed him forward.
SPEAKER_01You're right.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah. Um, but yeah, no, I think his his uh line delivery is good. I like the added quirks that he has, whether he's a Dapper Dan man, he has the the um the hairnet, but also his is we're in a tight spot, like lines stuff like that. I mean, it just it uses added backdrop for his character.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, well, and the that this movie in general gets good mileage out of those callback jokes or you know, repeated several times in the same scene joke, like the we're in a tight spot, you know. Yeah, but uh I I just like his uh his his mannerisms and he's got this like really great, like incredulous, like holy crap, what the heck is going on face that he puts on that just cracks me up, and his line delivery, this dialogue that he gets to say in this, like he's I think he's got some of the best lines in the movie. Um, I love that character, he's great.
SPEAKER_00So, how how do you feel about the other two?
SPEAKER_01Uh that I'm I I mean I I love them too. I mean, John Totturo and Tim Blake Nelson are both like all-timer character actors for me, so um, and uh it gives a nice uh variety to the group. You've got Everett, who's kind of you know a little bit uh uh of a fancy pants guy and has high opinions of himself, but you know, doesn't quite understand what a bumbling dork he is, and then uh uh Pete is the most honest, perhaps. Like, I don't know, like you know, he's he's so um uh uh gosh, my brain is failing me. I no, don't worry. I I I just like his sort of um like very straightforward uh like he understands who he is in this life, and uh I don't know. I like that character a lot. And then you know, uh uh what what's the third guy's name, the Tim Blake Nelson character?
SPEAKER_00Uh why is it not coming to me? I just watched it last night. Uh that would be uh Delmar.
SPEAKER_01Delmar.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He's he's just like the sweetest, most innocent little tagalon guy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, he he he's he's not trying to uh you know pull anything over on anybody or or get away with anything or uh you know carry any hate or anything. You know, he's just he's just a little sweetheart. So I I like the balance of the group, and I think all three of them are are great as far as the the actors' performances. I I love this trio.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they have a really good dynamic between each other. Um, and I think what sets, and this is I would say a high mark in efficiency for this movie is that thing that really kind of sets you on understanding where everyone stands, is in the beginning when they first like try to get on the plane, the train doesn't work out. So uh Everett says, Okay, we're gonna do this, and then uh Pete says, No, no, no, we're not gonna do that. Who made you boss? And this so they vote for each other, and Del Mar's like, Yeah, I'm with you guys. Yeah, that completely explains the dynamic of the group within that small conversation.
SPEAKER_01100%. Yeah, you're right. That is a well-written scene.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um, but you have the you have the colorful language that's going on with just Everett and trying to sound more educated than he probably is, um, traveling salesman type, and then you have uh Delmar, who's just like way, way down there and very simplified. Um, and then yeah, you have the cut and dry of of Pete that really works, and then that extends out. You have the characters like the Oracle that's on the train tracks and very much like almost speaking like prophetically, which I mean he is prophesying, but even in his language, um, to where immediately you go from this, oh, is this just like gonna be a escape convict situation? To there's so much more to this movie. So the setup is really good. Um, I think I have questions when it comes to some of the pacing when it deals with the governor race and uh the the two warring governors trying to be re-elected in November.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's fair. Um, you know, I mean, uh those characters do serve a plot function in the movie, but it it I think it's probably fair to argue that not all of the setup that's created for them necessarily needs to be in there because sure there's quite a few scenes devoted to those guys and what's going on. There is yeah, I mean, some of that stuff uh is in there for um uh thematic reasons relating to this, you know, things about America stuff that we've been talking about. I mean, one of those guys is a member of the KKK, right? Which, you know, not only is just a true fact of history that that was a a thing that was around, and there would have been uh prominent people who are members, but um it's uh you know part of the fabric of this country. I mean, you know, you go back to the uh origination of uh the constitution, and you know we'd end up having language in there like the three-fifths compromise about you know black black people voting and stuff like that. So, you know, you can't really do a story about what America is without addressing race or slavery in some fashion, I think.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I think that um in a situation like this, what I do appreciate is kind of calling it out for what it is and where it went wrong, but then also you have like the duality of your some of your heroes. Like I think it's very intentional, and I appreciate the fact that you have that movement that's happening. I mean, it's in the deep south Mississippi at the same time. One of their traveling companions uh that sticks with them from the beginning professes, uh, which is Tommy, professes that I mean he sold his soul to the devil and there's all of that sort of thing. But he just continues to pop up and journey with them, which I think is a cool added element. Yeah. Um, very quickly, though, we're about at the halfway mark. Let's talk a little bit about Bleak Midwinter. I'm I'm gonna ash this because it's it's perfect burn, but it's gonna end up on my lap. So um really good draw. Uh it's it's turned, I it still has this like vegetal component to me, a little bit herbal.
SPEAKER_01I understand exactly what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um but usually when it's a lot of those notes, I feel like that's when we get to those treble areas, but it's still grounded to some degree to where it's not too sharp. Um and it's got some deeper elements, maybe like a uh I'm trying to think. I think almost like a dark dark chocolate, like almond type of deal going on. Oh really? Yeah, like like not milk chocolate. I'm not really getting chocolate sweetness, but how like an almond has like a zing to it, but it's grounded in this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think for me, that um sort of cedary character I was mentioning kind of gets even more amplified on the retrohale now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's really interesting. I I have come to really appreciate the five and a half inch size for a cigar because, and I've mentioned this before, it's like you light the cigar up, you're right in it, but it's also not completely over so quickly like a normal typical Robusto. Right. So, yeah, no, it's holding up great. And I this the smoke production, the draw construction, this is what I look for on a cigar. It's brilliant. I agree. Very solid. Um I think a big not so much character, but it has its character of its own is the music and the soundtrack. Oh, of course. Yeah, um to my knowledge, the only music is actually vocals. We don't really have a score in this movie.
SPEAKER_01Gosh, I think you might be right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, and the reason I I I'm tending to be like, I'm pretty sure that is the case because we also know, like, No Country for Old Men, there's no music right in the whole movie. So Cone Brothers likes that type of aspect and flavor. And I think, unlike what we talked about uh a few about a month back about Great Gadsby, um, they really jumped into this is the music of the time, and we're not talking big band that swing dance, we're talking about like folk music and and its roots there, gospel music. Um I think one of the highlight moments is when they for me, and I it's probably for other people, when they go into the studio and record their first oh of course, yeah, yeah. Um yeah, and I just I really appreciate that they dug really deep into the music of the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I one of the things that is just like uh uh amusing to me too is that um the movie makes no specific um mention or exposition or plot point about the fact that all three of these guys are apparently really good singers, just because and I think that's just kind of funny to me that like you know that they they don't feel the need to try to give background about like you know, oh well I sang in the church choir, and you know, daddy taught me this every weekend, right? They're just they're just they can they're all just like jump into a movie um uh music studio and belt out a banger, and I thought it was kind of funny, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the and so okay, one of the funniest moments is like after they leave, they they uh are able to pull one over by saying, Oh, there's multiple people in the band, we get more money, okay. We're headed out, yeah, and then they become a hit, and uh someone wants to sign them for a record, and they go back to the studio. The dialogue that those two characters have is so like fay, like deep south. I I find it hilarious. It's yeah, so crazy.
SPEAKER_01Um, and the Cohen Brothers like to do that sort of thing. There's tons of moments like that in Fargo where when you know they're just unironically talking to each other in this most like you know, kind of like non-confrontational Midwest vernacular with those crazy accents, like, yeah, that's that's this. I think they like to pay attention to the way people uh think and speak. Yes, but um I took note this time uh because I was watching this like through the lens of the fact that we're talking about, you know, we're watching this because it's a movie about America, and I don't know if they were going for this specifically, but it is in the film that um the singers are only paid ten dollars, and we learn later where the guy's like, I'm sorry, we just can't keep them on our shelves. That apparently the record is selling like crazy, the singers aren't getting paid for that. Yeah, that feels a little relevant, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and honestly, I feel like too, that's a new thing. Like the concept of someone being an icon that you're buying a record because of it it being them, like that started coming out of like the from my knowledge, the late 20s, uh and 30s for vocals, because it started with it's so and so and his orchestra, or it's so and so and sure. You're purchasing the the band accompaniment that's making the instrumentals, not so much the vocal person, and we saw that kind of change in American history when we got to people like Bing Crosby, and we got to people like uh I mean, really far back, like I would say like Ruth Edding of the 20s, but she was like late 20s, early 30s, and then I think it propelled with like Frank Sinatra and Frankie movement, and then you got the Beatles and stuff. So why like going back as history, looking at that trajectory is really interesting. Yeah. Um, but yeah, you're right. Flat rate, record the thing, and now the rights are all on the record. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh another thing I really noticed, uh uh again, talking about how they're taking some of these, you know, different uh mythological elements from the Odyssey and finding ways to slot them into this movie in the American South and use them as a way to not just you know make plot stuff happen, but make thematic points about what America is. And I think a real big one is with the John Goodman character who's sort of supposed to be uh the Cyclops, I think Polyphemous was his name in the Odyssey. And um here's a guy who uh is unabashedly making money off of selling Bibles, and yeah, super proud of that fact, you know. Uh and that feels very much like it's talking about America to me. So, um, what do you think of that that that thematic idea with that character and just the sequence involving him in general?
SPEAKER_00I think like most most moments, and you had mentioned one about like, oh, they can just sing, there's a lot of you just oh, you just take it for granted in this world, like that's what's going on, right? Um, and I think without dynamic performances like John Goodman or George Clooney, it could have fallen flat, or it could have been like this is super, super random. But the the connection I think that's really telling, and I I think the dialogue is good is when he introduces himself and George Clooney is like, You have the gift of gab, and he's like, I pride myself on it, basically. They're they're like finding like a match, like, oh, we're on uh a like-mindedness right now, because while this guy, the Cyclops, is selling Bibles, you can tell he doesn't believe a word of it, he's just making a quick buck. And George Clooney can uh can understand that in terms of a lot of the things he says himself, and that's part of his own journey and changing, I think.
SPEAKER_01So I think it works. Yeah, I like I like that whole section. Um, and then of course, you know, we find out that uh, you know, uh, despite allegedly, you know, being a uh uh God-fearing Christian, he's just uh he's just a ripoff artist, and he you know takes these guys out to the middle of nowhere so that he can take their money. We find out later that he's a member of the clan, right? I've I I you know I can't help but think that that's the Cohen's very much saying, not that this is all of America, because obviously not, but this is definitely a part of our identity, right? Guys like this a hole, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Especially to uh taking advantage of the moments in which people are at their weakest. I mean, because as he he points that out himself by saying people are searching for the answer, and it's my job basically to give it to him. You can sell them whatever you want, basically, for sure. Um, so yeah, no, I I I don't I think it fits pretty well, and I think John Goodman does a really good job at it. Yeah, he's great in this, right?
SPEAKER_01I've I've always liked him, but I uh there's a few performances I can think of where I'm like, whoa, okay, John Goodman, I didn't know you had that sixth gear, right?
SPEAKER_00And this might be one of those his mannerisms as he'll like hit certain notes and like look like he's plucking things out of the air and stuff as he's trying to sell and be. I mean, John Goodman's already a big presence, but he like makes his presence so much bigger in this movie.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it's good.
SPEAKER_00Um, I would also say I appreciate in the beginning kind of setting the question and the stage of um Delmar going down and getting baptized and saying I've been washed away from all of my sins. Um, because what's funny is like you see Everett looking at this and he's like, Yeah, it's all a hoax, it's all a sham, it's all this. But Delmar truly believes it. He does like he truly believes it so much that several moments in this movie he even tries to continue on that mantra of the straight and narrow. I think a good example of this is when they take a pie out of the window and he leaves money for it. Yes, like not something a normal convict would do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so yeah, and that's that's it's funny that it's like almost that's like his, you know, because he is kind of the the most innocent uh of the bunch, and that is how uh you know, maybe a uh a child would view um the the some version of doing the right thing, you know, like at the end of the day, you shouldn't take people's pies out of their windows. Sure, leaving money is you know like a nice gesture, but like you shouldn't have taken the pie in the first place. So it's it's cute that like he's got that self-rationalizing thing, like, oh, I'm still being a good uh because I'm safe now, and it's yeah, he's great, it's funny, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And even his encounter with like uh the sirens at the river and oh yeah, and him being like and turned him into a horny toad, and uh and then even trying to take care of this frog, like down to it. I think that they do it justice in fleshing out his own character and not just being comic relief with no background, I guess. Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, well, and I want to talk about that that siren scene. Uh, for one, I just that that that song that they're singing. I don't know if that was something that was written for the movie or if it exists in the culture already and they just barred it, but uh what a great choice. It sounds fantastic, and it's so on point for the era, and all like it. I I really dig that, but um, you know, that scene and pretty much every other scene in this movie has such a specific look to it. Everything is kind of you know, like I said, kind of amber colored, and you know, uh uh it gives the foom film a real cohesive identity visually. Uh shot by Roger Deacons, one of our favorites. And um, the way that they achieved that is that this was the first movie uh to ever use digital color grading. So if you were going look at the original film, the way this was shot, all of those you know, fields of grass and trees and everything, they're green. Wow, they went in, and you know, you're able to key out like the specific color or range of colors right in the computer and then adjust the hue to something different. And um, that's just kind of a a notable thing about this movie because that technology is used a lot now, yeah. Um, you know, this was the first time it was ever ever done, and it was under the uh supervision of maybe the greatest cinematographer that Hollywood has ever had. Um, I just think it looks great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I honestly would never have known. Like, like same. That's that's crazy. Um, really quick, we got uh Rob White on saying, What's up, OGT people? Great movie, too. What's up, Rob? Yeah, it's been it's uh been a while. Thanks for jumping on, Rob. That's awesome. Um, yeah, I uh again going into this movie, I was not a the biggest fan, but uh yeah, get kind of dissecting it and going through it more. I I have a more of an appreciation for this movie for sure.
SPEAKER_01Good, good, yeah. Um, are are there anything uh because I I actually this this time around, just because like I wanted to be a little bit responsible since we were trying to talk about the theme, I took notes, I got out my little notebook. Um, so I've got other things on here that I could talk about, but I'm curious in the sense of that um this is a movie that is um talking about what America is while also telling this specific narrative. Were there any other things that you kind of latched onto or saw that were like, oh, this feels like it's talking about us?
SPEAKER_00Um, I mean, I definitely think that the the breakup of the KKK situation and that, um, and also like part of American history uh that is one of the more unsavory things, is even we we tend to think I think that once uh the civil war was over, then that resolved that type of situation. Um, and unfortunately it did not, and it and it continued, especially in that area, um, and continued on. So, what's crazy though is that this is I don't know if this is too much of a bunny trail, but I was thinking about this is like in the 19 like 40s, late 40s, um, Superman became a big thing on the radio, and the radio is often used in this movie. Um, you you get introduced by some of the characters through the radio, and that was such a big part of families gathering around the radio late at night. That was essentially the TV that they would gather around, right? Um, and in terms of what with what's portrayed in this movie with the KKK, when Superman was on the radio, they used to in code several shows send secret code across radio waves in terms of uh basically sussing out clans, okay, which I didn't even know, and I I learned later that they were using code during the radio broadcast cast to like send messages in terms of like trying to make moves against the clan, which is crazy. That is crazy, but I thought that was kind of a cool uh bit in terms of like when they're all sitting around, they're first listening to the music, and um that being such a faction in American history that it's not even like seen anymore. Yeah, huh?
SPEAKER_01That's cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, another little moment that I took note of um was there's this uh scene at the beginning uh after they've gotten away from the chain gang and they go to um uh Pete's cousin's house. Yes, his cousin. And there's a little boy out front who's shooting at him and says, you know, my dad told me to shoot at anybody that's from the know uh from the like the census or the the bank or you know like all these government uh institutions and stuff like that and that felt like another this is part of america's identity thing because i'm not too familiar with many other at least historical cultures where um you know the country was designed around um you know kind of less collective uh things more individu the the individual is the sovereign kind of thing and you know that especially took deep roots in um in the south uh you know where um you know the whole kind of thing about the civil war was about having the autonomy to do what we want and you know various other things and so just having that represented through this kid who is you know and this this family who lives this lifestyle where they are prepared to rebuke any authority that they don't recognize yeah that feels very American to me well and I think too what kind of solidifies your point is that all three of them are getting shot at and none of them are like wait wait why does the kid have a gun they're just like all right he's got a gun like that like that's just a part of the culture um and I want to say the gun that he has is a spring filled bolt action which I was like okay so is this from world war one um but I thought that was also kind of a cool added thing I think the the commonly in movies Hollywood eyes it's always double barrel shotgun but I was like ooh this was a choice yeah so it was kind of cool to see that as well um I'm curious what you think about the whole sequence uh involving um babyface George Nelson it's very like fantastical like it's very fantasy um I don't know much about babyface Nelson as much I mean I knew that he was a gangster and a bank robber um but I mean I think also I mean the the portrayal is pretty funny I think that it's it's kind of one of those zany moments I feel like in these moments we see the Cohen brothers really just kind of shoot for the moon on stuff like this and it's very much in what they do. But it's an interesting choice for me because as far as I'm aware I'm not a historical expert but I don't know that babyface was ever operated outside of the Midwest. I think he was only ever in like Illinois Indiana and that kind of thing. So taking him and putting in the the South is probably uh you know a um uh oh gosh what's the word for when something's not his anyway probably probably not true you know so they're they're just using him as a uh a character into this American myth mythology thing and um you know we see that he is you know all full of piss and vinegar and uh you know loves the thrill of doing these bank jobs running away from the cops and shining them on but then he hits that crest of he go goes over the crest and is just depressed afterwards. Yeah um and doesn't even care about keeping the money and um it it feels like that he's in there to sort of you know represent this sort of like blind chasing the the uh accomplishment kind of thing you know this just succeed because succeed success is a virtue kind of idea no you know no matter what you know personal cost or societal cost there is just you know he's a guy who's driven to just do a thing and um I feel like you know maybe you could apply that to some of the way that you know like um uh American work ethic is you know kind of considered and stuff like that but I don't know I don't have fully formed ideas around it does any of that track for you or no I see what you're saying yeah and kind of just I mean thrill seeking for the level of thrill seeking even if it's for your own death um towards the end where it leads him and how they say he's right back on top um I think that yeah there's there's kind of like I think extremes in this movie of of and muddled versions of what people might conceive as the great American dream of kind of yeah like striking out on your own and doing your own and doing your own thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and you see it in so many different ways in this movie um that it it it allows for this almost like dreamscape feel to it to where it doesn't really require explanation it just kind of happens and you accept it. Right.
SPEAKER_01Well and it I I I also think that maybe reflected in that story because you're right there's the scene where they're dragging him off to be uh uh executed and he's bragging about getting you know put in the electric chair he's super hyped about it and that seems like uh you know also this idea of uh you know the the end result doesn't matter again he didn't care about keeping the money right right um so you know getting caught and being uh executed doesn't matter to him either the idea the thing that matters to him is that he was a big deal yeah and that feels pretty American too I think and and how he's remembered it's not just about remember me as a big deal remember me as not babyface Nelson that's a big part of it and I think that they take moments to basically like they give time to make that like a priority for him and they continue through it.
SPEAKER_00So right yeah um but yeah I mean overall I think that the elements that the Cone brothers used in this movie I think it works. It could have probably gone really really wrong um but overall I think it it does it's it has enough root in historical accuracy but also like I said a little bit of tongue in cheek that I think is the right recipe when you're handling a story like this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah well and uh you know it's it's using you know kind of historical uh ideas uh and setting and all that kind of thing as this sort of you know crossroads between you know who we were before the 1930s and what we can't turn into after the 1930s. You know just with the way that it comments on that stuff I was talking about like the individual sovereignty and how you can't really look at America without talking about how you know the country started as a slave colony kind of thing. You know like all that stuff. And then with the way that it ends that uh you know Clooney's character you know reveals that he was lying about there being money and that it was really just about trying to get back to his his his family um the fact that he gets that happy ending at all at the end of this sort of myth might be another one of those things where it's like that's part of the myth also makes sense. So yeah I don't know I I think that overall this movie is pretty tight and it spins a lot of plates and doesn't really let too many of them wobble.
SPEAKER_00So yeah yeah I I would agree and I think they added element to of like now they're facing death they get caught up with the law there's no law here that's a human construct right um which I think is very poignant uh and there are moments in this movie to where it's like no like there is something beyond the human element in this movie and uh I think too like the the the pointed conversation after everything gets flooded that they're having as they're kind of floating and then he sees the the cow gives him a second to be like huh and so I think it's it's not it's not hitting you over the head with it but I think it's it's a really good added touch to it. Yeah agreed um so let's talk final notes on bleak midwinter um some of that cedariness is I feel like kind of gone um I'm getting more of the kind of like charred oak it's like it's really like oaky to me um hint of bitterness as well um but then also a little bit of sweetness on the end. Yeah and I think I getting something that's you know it's buried in there but maybe there's like an extra layer of richness now that we're at the end you know uh something that you might associate with um you know uh uh nuttiness or even um butter yeah that nuttiness for sure like I said like like that kind of like almond aspect going on with it um but all the way through I mean this cigar just it's such a joy to smoke I I'm such a fan of this cigar yeah my my my final note probably is that I'm sad that it's almost gone now exactly all right so let's write down scale from one to ten for bleak midwinter four we have not talked about this previously no we haven't so I have my number all right scale from one to ten you got 8.75 I got an eight out of ten okay high marks high marks yeah I was like I was like nine feels like I'm being a little bit too effusive but um I just really like this so I had to play a little cheeky with the decimals nice there you go okay and then on a scale from one to ten for oh brother where art thou I'm gonna go ahead and write I have my number all right okay little little little variance there yeah 8.5 for you 7.25 for me uh I honestly like if I hadn't seen this movie and someone was like well how would you rate that movie from my previous experience I probably would have been like eh six out of 10. Okay um but it's definitely moved up and I I think I do appreciate it. I think this was the time to where I was like when I first watched it I was like it's okay and then soon after I watched Burn After Reading which I really didn't like and I was like I'm not a Cohen brothers fan. Yeah so um uh I I I wish that there were more time to just like you know uh rattle off like some of my favorite little dialogue passages and whatnot but one of my favorite little bits and I think it's a lot of it is George Cloney's delivery too it's near the end of the movie when they're in that uh general store and he's arguing with his wife and he says vis-à-vis my progeny well and I I think that what partly sells it is that he sounds so educated to himself he sells it so well that he himself is like oh this is the best way to go about doing it yeah um and in for someone who thinks so highly for himself I also think it's hilarious that he's held to uh base he's like basically put in verbal prison whenever his wife says I counted to three and he's like oh my gosh this is like the end of it like yeah I think it's funny also shout out to Holly Hunter yeah she it's a small part but she's she's cool and I always like seeing her and stuff it is it is a sign of the times when I'm watching this and Mina's like what else she and I was like that's Mrs. Incredible there you go right sign of the times um okay so next week we are gonna be uh kind of dialing the time frame back um I'm excited to watch this movie it is one that I grew up watching and enjoyed so we're gonna be watching Mr.
SPEAKER_01Smith goes to Washington yeah classic classic Frank Capricorn this is exciting for me and it might be why like I slid it into the list when I we were talking about ideas for this I have not yet seen Mr. Smith goes to washing what I know I know is I uh on my my stupid spreadsheet that I keep for myself I have one of the tabs is called list of shame meaning I should have watched this by now but I haven't yet and Mr Smith goes to Washington is on it you know I I feel like that is an episode in of itself we should each come up with our own list of shame of like I probably should have seen this movie.
SPEAKER_00I'm game for that too I think that'd be interesting. But yeah I mean Mr. Smith goes to Washington Claude Rains Jimmy Stewart Gene Arthur it's got a pretty stellar lineup Frank Capra being direct yeah I'm I'm I'm so ready for this awesome so that is going to be next week guys uh as we draw closer to July 4th um and that will be next Tuesday if you are jumping on tonight also as a reminder the podcast that is normally on Thursday nights for Oakland Tobacch and this is actually tomorrow night because our guest uh needed to make it tomorrow and that is the master blender of Espinoza we've never had him on his name is Hector Alfonso he is the one who blended the warhead the 601 the all those so I'm excited for it nice um but thank you guys for joining us tonight Curtis thanks for jumping on and hanging out and uh yeah we'll be back at it next week I think it's time for us to R U N an O F T. Yeah all right everyone have a great night
