Shining a Light on Fentanyl Poisoning Awareness, Community Support, Recovery and Change

Welcome to the first of a series of episodes called, "The Ripple Effect: Conversations for Change," where we explore pressing issues, and highlight inspiring individuals making a difference.

In this powerful episode, we delve into the critical topics of fentanyl, overdose prevention, harm reduction, recovery and hope.

Shining a light on these topics and addressing them openly and honestly is a step towards making a positive difference, unshaming, destigmatizing, and ultimately saving lives.

“Fentanyl is the single deadliest drug threat our nation has ever encountered. Fentanyl is everywhere. From large metropolitan areas to rural America, no community is safe from this poison. We must take every opportunity to spread the word to prevent fentanyl-related overdose death and poisonings for claiming scores of American lives everyday." - DEA.gov

Join us as we delve into the depths of this crisis with our special guest, Thomas Guerra, MS, CEO and Founder of f-fent.org, a Miami-based organization dedicated to lessening the risk of substance use through harm reduction and providing recovery support to individuals who ask for assistance.

He is also available for public speaking engagements.

Thomas may be reached via email at thomas@f-fent.org, or by phone at 786-387-5000.

Visit the following links for:

• Training: https://www.f-fent.org/training
• Harm Reduction: https://www.f-fent.org/harm-reduction
• Family Support: https://www.f-fent.org/family-support
• Recovery Support: https://www.f-fent.org/recovery-support
• Overdose Awareness Day: https://www.f-fent.org/overdoseawareness
• Support F-Fent: https://www.f-fent.org/donate
• Florida Resources: https://isavefl.com/

Enjoy an eye-opening conversation that explores the F-factor behind fentanyl and unveils strategies for raising awareness and fostering hope in the face of adversity.

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Disclaimer: The information shared in this podcast is not medical or legal advice. Please contact your local licensed professional for professional advice.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast, where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started.

The Ripple Effect: Conversations for Change feat. Thomas Guerra, F-Fent.org

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to the first of a series of episodes that I'm calling the Ripple Effect, Conversations for Change. And here we are exploring pressing issues that highlight inspiring individuals making a difference in our community. In today's episode, we delve into the critical topics of fentanyl, overdose prevention, and harm reduction. And for context, I'll start with a quote that I found actually on the DEA website that says fentanyl is the single deadliest drug threat our nation has ever encountered. Fentanyl is everywhere, from large metropolitan areas to rural America. No community is safe from this poison. We must take every opportunity to spread the word to prevent fentanyl overdose deaths and poisonings from claiming scores of American lives every day. So I thought that captures the essence of what we're doing here today. And it's extremely important to bring this topic out in the open. So, with that today, I am so excited to introduce you to today's guest, Thomas Guerra. He's the visionary behind F-Fentanyl, which stands for Fight Fentanyl or Fuck Fentanyl, a Miami-based organization dedicated to lessening the risk of substance use through harm reduction and providing recovery support to individuals who ask for assistance. Thomas is an amazing man and he graduated from the from Florida International University, FIU, with a master's degree in mental health counseling. He also received his bachelor's degree in psychology from FIU in 2015. And he's been involved even during his days as a graduate student, where he founded the Panthers for Recovery, which is a student organization dedicated to helping students in recovery. So you've been at this for a while. And then from 2018 to 2021, he worked as a therapist at South Miami Recovery. He founded the Miami Recovery Project in 2020, which is one of Miami's first recovery community organizations. And most recently, this year in 2023, he founded F Fentanyl out of necessity in fighting the overdose crisis. His favorite accomplishment is being father to his two amazing kids. And his personal recovery has allowed him to be present for his family and help others do the same. I cannot think of a greater cause. So with that, welcome, Thomas. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Thank you so much for having me. And I appreciate it. I appreciate what you're doing in the community using this platform to uh break the stigma with uh overdose and addiction.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

It's so important. It affects so many of us. So I read a little bit about your background, but I want to hear it from you. How what is your why with this and where did you get involved with all of this amazing work?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Right. Well, I'm a person in long-term recovery since September 12, 2014. And so I I've lived through, you know, multiple attempts at recovery, multiple athletes with addiction. And I I've seen the effect it's had on my family, the effect it's had on now with the people that I come into contact with that I help with, having that same that that understanding of what people are going through. And I want to help them because that that's that's something that I I wish on nobody to go through that addiction. And the family it get they hit they feel it the most. Yeah, like you said, it's a ripple effect, you know, as as a result of my recovery, and I started doing service, which first became in the in the form of taking uh like a 12-step meeting into a treatment center. And then I realized at that point I didn't have anything that I felt like I had to offer to because I didn't have any degrees. I didn't I didn't really have a job. I was living with my family, and um I felt like I had nothing to offer. And when I started taking that meeting into the treatment center, I felt like I finally had something to offer. And it uh flipped the switch and uh I need to do this. This is what I want to do.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Um that night came on and you just said, I have to go from here, I have to take it from here.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

100%. You know, it was just uh all right. I up until that point, I had tried to go to school and failed every time um because I couldn't show up because of my active addiction. And um, once I I I found what I wanted to do, um I was able to show up. And I was able to get, you know, my associates and my bachelor's and my masters in my later years, in my 30s, and uh working the field that that uh you know means so much to me because every time I would work with clients, especially when I was working at the uh as a therapist, I felt like I was one of the clients. I was just like, I forget that I'm a therapist, then I got oh, I I gotta uh facilitate this, but I because I related so much to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

In a way that gives you an edge, if you will, over maybe somebody who hasn't gone through this experience because fentanyl has personally touched my life, my family's life. It took my brother's life. So when you say it affects the family, I'm all too aware of what that is. And it's it's a very painful experience. And one thing I've found is that sometimes the people who have gone through it are the ones who understand it best and are the best resource for others in active addiction because it's you you can understand at a core level what's what's happening. So that's one thing. And then second, finishing your master's and and getting yourself out of that is no small feat. So I always want to like praise and highlight and just celebrate all of those successes and anybody who's fought this very tough battle and continues to fight this very tough battle. You managed to climb Mount Everest, if you will, in your personal life and continue to do so. So kudos for that.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

And I definitely can't take credit for all of that. I mean, I showed up, but I had so much support of my family and people in recovery. And everything that I did was not not original. It was just like seeing that other people had done it before.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

That's that's what it really is. Um, our experience as a family

Unshaming is key to change

SPEAKER_01 6:08

member and as a person in recovery, speaking up out loud and sharing our experience, because there's tons of people that are going through it that are suffering in silence. They feel like they're all alone. And when we do platforms like this and you share your story, um, it gives them the strengths to speak up and and get help.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

And thank you for bringing that up because I recognize that shame is one of the heaviest emotions that paralyzes people into inaction. And it is one, I would argue, the emotion that keeps people in the shadows. And this is not just related to fentanyl, it's just like with everything. Shame is one of the most debilitating emotions. And as it relates to fentanyl and, you know, maybe drug use or drug overdoses, it's such a taboo topic. And the more we keep it taboo, the bigger we allow it to get, the bigger problem it becomes. I feel like bringing it to light is part of the solution. We have to talk about these things out in the openly. There is no shame in talking about it. And it's extremely important for people to become educated. There's a lot of misinformation. So, what we're trying to do is shed light on this topic and and bring it out in the open so people can discuss it openly. I personally know people who have lost relatives to fentanyl or other types of drugs, and they will not say it. They will not say it out loud because there's like that that pain, that shame, that others, you know, other factors that you don't want your loved one to be reduced to this thing that took their life. But again, that this is why it's so important to bring it up.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

100%. Absolutely. You know, with with with the shame, it's just the way society views addiction. And they view it as a moral failing, they view it as something that was maybe they came from a bad family, or and maybe they came, you know, it that it's nothing to do with that. This is all a medical issue, a disease. And people went look down on people that have cancer or that that have diabetes or that have different diseases, and it's exactly what it is. It's just that as a result of some of the consequences that come with addiction, people see it as they were doing it on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

And they're not, no, ever no person in active addiction says, I am doing this on purpose. They want to get out of it so badly. And the operating mechanisms are it's so complex, it's so multi-layered. And like you said, no one person does it alone. They need a support system and et cetera. There's this one doctor, I don't know if you've heard of him, Dr. Gabor Mate. He's um talking a lot about I absolutely love him and respect his work. And he, oh gosh, I'm gonna butcher his quote, but it's something along the lines of addiction is a response to to pain, right? So if you have a headache, what do you want to do? You want the pain of your headache to go away. And so you take, I don't know, ibuprofen, tylenol, you you go to sleep, you massage your head, whatever. You do what you need to do to get rid of the pain. And so he asks in addiction, you don't ask, oh gosh, I'm gonna butcher butcher the thing. But anyway, he says, why the why the pain? The question to ask is why the pain? And that's the real answer question that we need to get to.

People-first approach to substance use disorder

SPEAKER_01 9:08

That's exactly because people that have have addiction or that that are have a substance use disorder will understand is that the alcohol and the drugs was the solution. It was the solution because to the why we were using, right? So it helped us initially before it became a problem, right? And it was the solution to g to my my the way I felt naturally, you know. So it it was the solution. So when you take away the drugs and alcohol, then it's the real problem because you gotta face this head on, and it's it's a lot to to bear without without the the tools. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

And what you said substance use disorder. One thing I want to highlight that I learned recently, I didn't know this before, but it's uh what I've understood as a people first approach to discussing addiction, right? So I, you know, a lot of people say, Oh, he's an addict or he's this or that. And some people take issue with that word because it dehumanizes a person going through this struggle. And so what I understand is language matters. And in one hand, you saying substance use disorder is I don't know if that's the correct term, right? So I'm learning myself. I'm trying to get all the words right. I think it's more important to talk about it at all, you know, period. But it's also very important to to remember that there's a human behind all of this. And if and when we put the human first, we are more apt to be able to help each other and and empower the person to get there.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

And and really what it comes down to is trying to give the people a chance before they get stigmatized. And when you're using words like addict or alcoholic drug user, right, and uh labeling that person, and that's you're all they are. Whereas the words don't have that much of a of an impact when you've been in the program for so long and you've been going to meetings, and it's like, well, okay, we identify, but like when it comes to folks that are not as been around it so much, when they hear addict or alcoholic, they're not thinking of the people in the meetings, they're thinking of the people at the lowest of the low of their addiction. And that's not what everybody looks like, everybody's different, and that's why it's so hard for people to admit you have to admit you're an alcoholic. Well, they they're looking, they're thinking of the you know what they saw on TV or what what what they learned, you know, when the image that already formed.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah, that's why they're trying to identify always it doesn't always look like what it actually looks like in real life. It's it's in every social class,

What makes fentanyl different than other substances?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

it's in every socioeconomic class, it's in every race, it's in it's ever it's quite literally everywhere. Why is fentanyl so different than other other drugs out there? Like why fentanyl? What what is the right heaviness of this type of drug? Why is it so different?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

The the the fact is that it's it's it's not meant for the way it's being used. It's used for terminal analysis, you know, when people are are dying to to relieve pain, right? And that's the the medical version of fentanyl. But the the one that's being pushed out is you know, it's not medical uh quality. This is made by by people in the street, in houses, in in different countries. It is uh 50 to 100 times stronger than morphine or heroin. And the the the biggest danger is that it's being cut into things that it it doesn't need to be cut into. It's you know, cocaine and pills, and so people do not know that they're taking fentanyl. That's the biggest problem, is that people don't know it's in the drugs, and that's not an overdose, that's a poisoning. Right? That that's that's homicide when people don't know. Well for the majority of the people that are dying do not know that this is in the drug that they're taking.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I want to highlight that because I think the bigger issue is addressing how pervasive it is of a problem and how it takes so little. There's this image that's been circulating around social media. If you look at the tip of a pencil, it only takes that much amount to potentially kill somebody. The amount is so small. Whoever's manufacturing these illicit drugs is put are they putting it in almost everything. And I even read in counterfeit H ADHD pills, you know, some people want to buy Adderall, off-market Adderall, whatever that means. Those are laced with fentanyl. So you could think you're taking one thing. And it, like you said, bigger issue that we're having is that a lot of people are taking something within with a certain level of calculation in mind of the risk that they're taking. So in their mind, I'm only taking uh, you know, Ritalin that somebody gave me, that friend gave me, but you don't know where that person sourced that, and it could have potentially fentanyl. And that's part of why it's become such uh I mean that the deaths have increased in the past year exponentially. I think in uh as of last year, it was about almost 110,000 people died just last year alone.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yeah, and that's that's the highest it's ever been ever in the United States. The way drugs are treated in the United States and the way it's managed, it's not working. The drugs that people get are you're getting it, it's not regulated. People are getting it from the streets or from the black market. So you there's no guarantee to the product. Like, like if you were to go to a store and buy a product, you you can be assured it that it has what it says on the label. This you I don't it's probably been stepped on multiple times before you get it, and you're you're barely getting what you paid for. And so that's that's that's a major issue with with uh you know the regulation of drugs in this country. And it's not to say whether doing drugs is good or bad, it's just that we don't want people to die. So we we need some type of regulation for this.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

And what you just said is is also really important that we can get caught up in the conversations about whether something's good or bad, or we can actually do something to save people's lives. And I think when we focus on saving people's lives, talking about them with their humanity intact, because this could be your mother, your father, your sibling, your uncle, the lawyer, the doctor, the, you know, it could be anybody in your community, in your family circle. You may not even know that this is happening. And at the end of the day, it's about like, okay, what are the potential solutions? What's working? How can we help? And with that, in your experience, what have you seen

What solutions are working?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

working? Like what is actually working to either in harm reduction or save lives, both?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Well, it it's it's a number of different things altogether. It's not just one thing. 100% harm reduction is necessary to even get somebody to a level of wanting to get help. Harm reduction doesn't, it doesn't matter if somebody wants to find recovery, doesn't want to find recovery. It's just about keeping them alive.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

You know, so for those who don't know, could you like elaborate a little bit on what exactly harm reduction is?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

So harm reduction, it's not a new concept, it's been used for years with different things like driving a car is dangerous, putting the seatbelt on uh limits the dangers, right? Um, you know, back back in the 70s, 80s, right? Sex and condoms was a big issue, right? Oh no, we're gonna encourage people to have sex. People are gonna have sex. There's no getting around that. So it just limits the disease transmission and unwanted pregnancies, right? And limits the dangers. And so it's the same with when it comes to drugs. The drug war has been going on for years. There's no lessening of drugs. The people, there's probably more, right? So people are gonna continue to use drugs till the end of time. But how can we limit the dangers? That's what harm reduction is. And it doesn't matter who the people are, it doesn't matter uh if they want help or they don't want help in getting into recovery. It's just about giving them radical love. Like you said, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and we help them survive so they have an opportunity to find recovery at a later point. If that's their choice, and it's up to them, it's their choice. We meet them where they're at.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

And what does that look like in practice?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

In practice, it's it's really sharing about some safe use tools. Narcan absolutely is one of the biggest tools in arm reduction and reversing an overdose. And that there was a bit all controversy with Narcan. Does it encourage drug use? It does not people do not want to be using Narcan. People when you use Narcan, somebody is in withdrawal and they know what he wants to be in withdrawal, but it it reverses overdose and it brings people basically back to life, saves lives. There's also fentanyl test trips which can test for the presence of fentanyl in pretty much any substance that is in a powdery form or like a pill, and you could test and to see if you actually got what you pay for or there's something added to it. And um, then you can make a better educated decision on what you're gonna do. Be being safe, you using with other people that can call for help, you know, and being able to know that this drug can have fentanyl. Let me start off slower than I would naturally start off with. Those are a few of the things that you can do.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

You said Narcan test strips and overall awareness about what you're dealing with and how big the problem is.

Narcan & Naloxone saving lives

SPEAKER_00 17:53

What is the importance of making Narcan as available as possible to the masses?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Get getting people to have it as much as they would have a uh Tylenol in their house. Because if you happen to encounter somebody that's overdosing, can you help them? Will you help them? And if you have that ability to help them, we want to save lives. And uh the fact that it's gonna be over the counter at the end of the summer, um is is a push in the right direction. I think it's still gonna be a little pricey. I think the price tag is gonna be like $50, which is still out of reach of a lot of people. Push in the right direction, but still, like that's why we we were hoping that these grants and the the these programs that are available to have Narcan and Naloxon for for free across the United States stay being funded because we need to get that out to the people uh no matter what what their financial status is.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

It's my understanding that it varies by state states, right? So some states do offer it. They have programs that are are subsidized or you know supported locally. So we're in the state of Florida, specifically, we're in Miami. So what uh you just said, I was not aware of this actually. You just said that it should be over the available over the counter by the end of the summer um at about $50, which is better than not having it at all, but you know, it's not as available to everybody. Are there other ways for people to get this through other programs or you know 100%?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

And uh so like in the state of Florida, we we have uh distributors that work with the Department of Children and Families, or we're able to get a nalox on Narcan. Um, and the website is isavefl.com. If you go to that website and plug in your zip code, you can find the nearest distributor in the state of Florida to distribute uh Narcan for free of cost. We're hoping this program continues despite the fact that it's gonna be over the counter. Similar to the um, you know, condoms, we had just a free condom program, right? They sell them in the store still, but then we still have programs that we can still provide condoms.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

So I'll include that link in the show notes if anybody wants to take a look.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

And absolutely from us, uh f Fentanyl. Uh our website is f-fent.org. You know, we're happy to, if you're in the Miami area, we we definitely be happy to assist you in getting Arcan free of cost.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

That's amazing. And I know that you do, you're very engaged in the community. I I see you active all the time. Uh you're posting on your on your social media accounts. Tell us a little bit about what you do

F-Fent.org

SPEAKER_00 20:17

with F Fentanyl and like how we can help support what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, absolutely. My previous organization was focused on recovery and people that were asking for help, that were, you know, are being pushed for help. Whereas F-Fentanyl, we are meeting people where they're at, whether they are asking for recovery support or not. And not everybody that uses drugs has a substance use disorder or has a severe substance use disorder, right? So we still want people that are dying don't necessarily have uh an addiction. They don't necessarily have been using around the clock. They just are getting a tainted drug supply, right? So we're helping people regardless if they need help or in recovery or not. We do the overdose prevention trainings. You know, we go to the libraries, we go to churches, we go to universities, and we we do that full training. It's about an hour long, and we give out the Narcan. We also are very heavy in the community where we go out overtown, downtown, Miami Beach, and we um try to give people that are are less fortunate. We we give them hygiene products, food, of course, harm reduction products like Narcan and Fentanyl test strips and you know, wound care kits, and so that they can have the opportunity to continue on. And then a lot of the the people that we serve too are you know living their regular everyday lives and they you know use drugs from time to time. We went to uh the Ultra Music Festival and we we gave out Narcan to people going in there and and and you know, people just trying to have a good time, but you know, something can happen still. So that that is our goal to help everybody that that uses drugs and not just people that are trying to get into recovery. We're fairly new and we're we're kinda starting from the ground up, started in in March of 2023. You know, little by little we're we're growing. We we have tons of Narcan. Uh we're hoping that the fentanyl test strips bill, I know it got passed in the Senate and and the House. We're just waiting on the governor to either sign it or uh it it getting just automatically passed into law. It will be huge because then we probably can get some funding similar to what we get for Narcan. So we can get uh large amounts. Right now it's coming out of pocket and it's it's very hard to get money wise. But if we can get that funded through through BCF or through any uh other grant, then we can get that out on a major way and take it out to the everywhere, to the bars, to the clubs and everywhere. I also do the public speaking, speaking on my story. I do trainings on substance use disorder, Khadija recovery, harm reduction. Little by little we're we're going to be adding more.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

I love it. And thank you for the amazing work that you do. It's I cannot highlight how important it is awareness and education for people who either don't know or are starting to learn about it or somebody's loved one just found out they're they have a substance use disorder or whatever the case may be, it's important to to learn about it because at some point in your life

Meet people where they're at

SPEAKER_00 23:11

I I almost guarantee it will touch your life at some point. Unfortunately I also want to highlight that you say meet people where they're at that is so incredibly important meeting people where they're at generally speaking in life it's always a good practice to do but especially when it comes to helping, educating, saving, it's extremely important to be where the need is. And like you said, I've I've seen you guys at active at uh the Ultra music festival and this is one example. It could be you know somebody's on vacation in Miami going to a music concert and they get exposed to something God forbid it's you know laced with fentanyl and we have a bigger problem here. So that's one scenario. You also have the population who suffers from an active substance use disorder for many years and they deserve care as well. And they need to be met where they're at it ruins their lives completely or has the potential to do so. You also have the people in recovery you you also have um like you said you work with churches and organizations and universities. I know that you've had events at different universities here in Miami. So it's beautiful that you're the word that I want to use is like attacking it on many fronts, you know, because it kind of feels like we're battling something here.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

It affects everybody and that's why you got to meet everybody not just just you know people that can afford treatment or people that can afford I mean that was my major move in getting into the nonprofit areas because I didn't want to have to deal with asking people for money to to get help. It was just like no we just we'll we'll help them regardless. You know that's really how it should be on a on a national or major level. So it's every anybody that needs help can get the help that they need. And even if they don't ask for help we can we can still assist them.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

And you're a great resource here for that in Miami locally but also like you could if somebody wanted to get in touch with you and have more information about what's working maybe they want to implement a similar program in their state or in their city they could also get in touch with you. I'll put your information in the show notes as well. You said

Policies for change

SPEAKER_00 25:05

that there I mean are there any like policies or legal reforms that you hope will change? I know that you said that you're waiting for that bill for the test strips to to essentially be signed. Is there anything else that you're like gosh this would really help if somebody did this?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah there's tons of stuff that's working at other places that that can be done here. Safe consumption sites is is something that you know I don't know if they're ready to do it here, but it needs to be done here. Implementing something to support collegiate recovery programs, you know, in universities being supportive of having Narcana on universities and and test trips on universities. I've had so many issues with universities that they have they have a lot of red tape that doesn't allow them to do things because there's so many people to go through but you know that's a major place where you need to educate people um those are the future leaders and being able to let them know and and man when we when you go to a university you like party but you get an education there too. Being on a college campus I was able to get anything I needed um substance wise anything I needed. If I needed to get a drink I could go to the main part of campus and get drunk. But when it came to harm reduction service or recovery service nowhere to be found. So that's that's a huge thing and just making everything more accessible it's just like when I worked in in um in the private sector of of treatment the the the limitations were were finances and and insurance people couldn't go through there. When I got into the nonprofit area it was the availability so people were on wait lists and it took very long time for people to get help and people were dying while they're waiting to get in a bed. And so it's just like everything it's not working. We need to do something on a major major across the nation. I think the first order of business is to get get the education out get make it available and break that stigma so people are not so reluctant to like oh no I don't know anybody like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

I'm like we'd be surprised how many people in your life yeah yeah yeah and and it also affects like you know as as a family member trying to help a family member going through I I was going to say you know the the the addiction part of it but quite frankly anybody who's had a a relative who suffers from depression or suicidal ideation or any heavy one of these heavy emotions that really affects a human being and disempowers them to take a hold on their life and you're trying to help them, I know for a fact that there are some resources the most effective resources are organizations like yours. But when it comes to like medical care or insurance companies there is so much they don't cover. They don't help they don't there you know it's there's there's always a butt to anything you want to do to help. And it's sort of gotten I think a little bit better with like a lot of the talk about mental health and you know health and wellness lately but the road is still I feel so long. And that's part of why one awareness and talking about this is important, but also like what specifically is working is is is what I want to know. And so with what you said you know about Narcan for those who don't

Access to overdose reversal medicine & harm reduction best practices

SPEAKER_00 28:11

know it's a it's a substance that you can get that literally saves lives. It reverses an overdose and it is a simple it's like a nasal spray I believe you could take it as a nasal spray it's this little like packet and you shove it in somebody's nose you spray it an allergy medicine if you have some you can enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

It's so simple. All right so this is not Narcan but this is cloxado but it looks exactly the same. It's a nasal spray and you're you're basically just pressing the plunger right there into the either side of the nose and that's basically the hardest part of using it. It's going to take one to two minutes to to take effect and that person can be saved through that. Sometimes it'll it'll take more than one but um basically it's so simple you know be the the ones we were using before were you know intermuscular and there were needles and it was kind of people were scared to use those this is so simple to use and um it's readily available at least in our area and if you can't if you're in a different area I would recommend checking your your local RCO or your local um health department there's a couple resources on our website that will give you the national organizations the National Harm Reduction Coalition uh Next Distro and overdose organizations that work nationwide and um some of them may send uh send it out in the mail as well so definitely check those out you know most states do have some level of Narcan just distribution people are becoming aware of of how pervasive it is and how at the end of the day let's just save the lives and this is what we got to do.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Another thing is the testing strips super easy to use you literally take the strip and you put it in whatever let's say a drink or whatever substance correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Basically whether it's a powder like cocaine or it's a pill you can test for the presence of uh of fentanyl just you know you want to mix it up thoroughly because like you said it it it uh it takes the tip of a a pencil worth of fentanyl to to to be fatal and so you want to mix up that substance very good so that you you can make sure that you can test all of it. And what I would do also if you're taking just say you could you cut you cut the pill in half and you take one pill first and the other half later I would test this one this part of the pill and then test this part of the pill separately too because just like a um like a chocolate chip cookie or the chocolate chips are in certain parts of the cookie and the other parts don't have the chocolate chip that's how the pills are powdered. So you get what you want to make sure that you can test it all.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

So I recently saw what you just talked about. I recently saw an image for it on Instagram I think it was and it was very fascinating because I didn't know this. Like so if you you look at a chocolate chip cookie and you look at where the chocolate chips are imagine those are traces of um in this context fentanyl. So you think you're taking one substance and then maybe the chocolate chip moved to like one half of the cookie and not the other. So maybe if you test one area it comes out clear but then the other area of the cookie is painted. So again this is how tricky and pervasive it is and we're not discussing morality here and we're not absolutely not uh condoning drug use at all. We are speaking to a a reality of that a lot of people are facing and at the end of the day it's like we're not here to discuss right or wrong. We're just here to discuss saving lives and best practices to do so. I want to ask you as far as like recovery, right? Like are you what what

Recovery efforts that work

SPEAKER_00 31:28

are you seeing that's working in terms of recovery? Because we just discussed like harm reduction, best practices, but also what's actually working for people who are living their life.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Well what's what's working is giving people options giving people options and not not kind of saying oh you have to do this is the only way giving people multiple options and for them to decide which one works best for them. And not putting a a general definition of what recovery is to somebody because what recovery can mean to me can be look different for somebody else. But the goal is to get rid of the consequences of the substance use and to to to live a productive life. If you're doing that in a in a manner and you you stop using um heroin but you're smoking weed, I think that's recovery. Well a lot of people would contest me on that but um the goal is to stop the consequences. And so I mean there's 12 of course there's 12 step programs but there's programs like Smart Recovery which doesn't involve spiritual aspect or religion one called Recovery Dharma or and another one refuge recovery which uses Buddhist principles. We like the Christian program is called Celebrate Recovery where you can go and and it's very Christ focused that everybody's going to be different. And some people will go to a therapist and see a therapist on a regular basis and and that's enough for them. I can't knock anybody on what their recovery looks like because it looks different than mine. If they're getting the support they need then I'm all for it. And that's really how we should approach it. Because some people won't even step into a 12 step meeting because they use the word alcoholic. And uh so so like all right well let's go on through a side door then let's go on somewhere else to where they don't use that word. And and that way we we give it have people have a chance to find that connection I think the biggest biggest biggest tool in recovery is that finding people that get you people that understand and being able to connect and have to have that genuine feeling that you're not alone because this person also has felt the same way. And that's that's a big aspect of like 12 step programs and any program in general is just like you're meeting people that actually um have the same thing that you do and you can get advice you can connect you could hang out that's uh a lot of times I'm just hanging out with people that that are in recovery and we're not necessarily going to any meeting we're just hanging out having a a good time that's really what it is is just one main thing that I tell people is that when you want to be good at something you find a mentor or you find a coach. Right? So if you're gonna be an athlete you find the best coach you can and you get that coach that to coach you so you can be a better athlete and you get better players around you so you can become better. When it comes to recovery find that mentor that you see has what you want and get those those players around you that are doing the same thing too and it's gonna rub off on you. It is I don't care how many times you've tried try again it's eventually going to stick. I I'm not a one-ship wonder I didn't get it the first time second time third time I have so many times that I have I attempted and right now I have eight years. It's not an accumulation of just the eight years it's a communication of all the years I tried before they were not failures they were not failed treatment. It was all coming together to put me where I'm at today and so if if somebody has had a reoccurrence and they go back and can keep coming back well keep trying until it sticks. I I tell people I know a lot what doesn't work. So that really helps me figure out you know what what's gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

I'm sure that's also helped in your work today um eight years is amazing. I know from learning about this that it recovery it's like you said recovery looks different for everybody and it frustrates me when somebody says like oh but so and so quit cold turkey. It's like okay well good for so and so because that worked for them. And I'm very happy that that worked for them. That does not work for everybody, right? And so a lot of people have to they say like relapse is part of recovery, you know, and and it's just a matter of whatever works for that particular person. It reminds me of this one time I don't know why this popped into my head but I went to this church here in South Florida and then the the pastor said oh I get asked all the time what is the best Bible that I should read and he's like the one that you feel like reading I don't care which version of it like just what which one are you actually going to pick up and read? Like I don't care about the semantics. What are you actually going to do? So if you are triggered by the word alcoholic or whatever you don't like hearing about the religious aspect of it, then there's other options. If the Buddhism principles resonate more with you then by all means go that route. If you don't care for either then go through the SMAR program. So it's don't let these little things become hurdles in your recovery at the end of the day it's like whatever works for you whatever works.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Definitely the thing that is definitely not going to work is when you don't do anything. Right? So as long as you're doing something you're moving towards recovery. You know it's fine anything anything as long as you're not sitting sitting down and expecting it to go away.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

And another,

Addiction is a Family Disease

SPEAKER_00 36:17

you know, as a family member who who is introduced into this world because of this systemic aspect of it families need to understand they need to become educated. A lot of families leave the person suffering from the substance use disorder to to fix it themselves right and what I want to highlight is that this is a systemic problem not just within society but within your own family and facing that reality is is really tough sometimes. A lot of it has to do because you have a system operating on what should be quote unquote should be whatever that means to you. And then you have one person who in a way is like the mirror of the family or the societal issues or the expectations of them or whatever and they don't comply necessarily with that or they become a mirror for hey this isn't working and a lot of times the family doesn't want to look at it themselves or they don't want to or it's just tough you know I don't want to say they don't want to it's just it's very hard to face reality sometimes and absolutely and it's the thing is it is a family disease.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

It is it is affects everybody and you know in order to have the best opportunity I'll I'll give an example is is in in my family my mom started seeking help first and she's not she doesn't have a substance use disorder. She started seeking help because of my substance use disorder and she started going to a church program called Celebrate Recovery and she started working the program to help her and then it ultimately helped me but I found recovery later on you know what I mean and so disease of addiction affects everybody in a different way and family needs their own support. That's a given and they need their own education. They need to understand what's going on. And then on a on the on another level you know it it is also very traumatic to to the things that that go on when when you when you're dealing with the loved one it it is a lot to do and then expecting when the loved one goes to treatment they get all this therapy they get all the all all these tools and they come back into the thing. But they everybody else didn't do anything. Exactly they don't even know how to deal deal with this new version of that person. Right? They they need to be educated on all right they expect this don't give them a hard time this happens just so they can have an idea of what they're dealing with because they they they they have all this information and and this is all the same. Yeah so that's why it's important to to get everybody involved in that recovery process.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

That and it is a process. One huge misconception is that oh well they went to treatment they should get fixed now. There is no fix. Like I don't even know what that word means it is a process. They did their part to get back on neutral ground and now the real work begins. You know like now it's it's going to be the lifelong journey and that lifelong journey it's not just the person directly impacted by it it's the family as well. In our case it it happened many years ago when a lot of these resources were not publicly known some of the advice that we got even from professionals was was quite frankly quite awful and quite misguided and the social expectations were completely different. And I wish, wish, wish we had this information back then. I wish we did because it would have I think it would have changed a lot of things

Change begins with me

SPEAKER_00 39:27

and especially with us. And uh instead of focusing on oh this person needs to change the change always begins with ourselves. You cannot control the other people even the person suffering even if they're your loved one your son daughter cousin whatever friend the only thing you can control is yourself. So I believe and I know in certain things that did work is the more I became educated about something, the more I understood how the operating system of this whole thing works, the better I got at being of support and the better results we got. Now in our case we we ended up dealing with the worst case scenario was which was you know it took his life but there were it was after a long period of sobriety and I know that you don't always get this this perfect outcome which is why I don't wish this on anybody. I wish I could change it for somebody else and this this is why I'm talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

But the family needs to get involved as well and we learn that the hard way yeah thank you so much for you know just being able to share out loud and I I've seen so many different families affected by this and everybody responds in a different way or sometimes it takes a little bit of time before they they speak up about it. People need to hear this people absolutely need to hear this and it's gonna save people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

And and at the end of the day that's the main goal it's it's saving it is

Recovery is possible

SPEAKER_00 40:48

possible recovery is absolutely possible. It would you say it's happening more and more I think so like would you say it's happening more and more and becoming more common there's upwards of 24 million people in recovery today.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

And that's that's a lot of people and that's not all through 12 step programs. It's it's just every version of recovery you can imagine being able to be accepting of people's recovery. I think that's what's being is is more accepting is is uh the different versions of people recovery are being more accepted as opposed to oh no I go to meetings that's the only way of recovery it is. And that's I used to think that way too but I learned over time that's not necessarily the case for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

So any final thoughts anything that you would that we didn't touch on anything that maybe I missed or you know anything that you would like to leave us with?

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Sure. I I I do want to share about about a few things coming up um so people can be aware uh we're doing

F-Fent.org Upcoming Events & Contact Information

SPEAKER_01 41:41

overdose prevention trainings in public libraries here in Miami so on our website you could catch all all the dates the next one is in uh Naranja then we're doing Miami Beach doing Hylia North Date um and we're trying to get all all all around town to all the other libraries additionally we're doing some overdose prevention training at the University of Miami for students and then August 31st we're hosting an event Overdose Awareness day uh at the University of Miami which you're invited and we're we're having a a visual and some guest speakers and then for the students on the 29th we're gonna have a resource fair and then finally I think this it's in stone already uh September 30th we're doing recovery at the park which is a uh celebration of recovery and it's gonna be a donation drive so we can get some items for the less fortunate and all that's gonna be on our on the webpage at f-fent.org and uh again if you need anybody needs support or any needs a training an arcan they could also go to the website and reach out to us and we'll be happy to support that.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Well thank you for all that you're doing that's a whole calendar full of activities and I know that's just the beginning you're constantly doing your part to to make a difference and that's why I wanted to highlight all of these efforts. I'm going to link your website in the show notes. People can reach you there is there anywhere else if they wanted to get in touch with you directly um website is the best or maybe in your website or or the email my email is thomas at fent.org you can reach me on my cell I'm happy to answer directly 786-387-5000. Perfect count on me to be there for for some of those events I will happy to support and as a closing thought I would just like to first of all thank you

Shining a light on difficult topics leads to change

SPEAKER_00 43:24

again and remind people that the more we shed light on this topic, the more we make a difference. And whether you do that publicly or just in your private lives just remove the shame remove the stigma talk about it openly there is no shame in talking about this there is everything to gain and nothing to lose if we have everything to lose if we don't talk about it. So we have everything to gain if we do. So this is why I invite you to have these conversations to face it head on and if for whatever reason this is affecting you, your family, your life, understand you're not alone there are 20 how many millions of people 24 million yeah 24 million of 24 million people in active recovery. So there are resources. People are becoming more educated and just be sure to reach out if you need help, whether it's with as a family member to trying to process and accept the reality of this or somebody who wants to make a difference in the community or somebody who wants to support efforts like Thomas and Fenton all here in Miami. He's also available for speeches if you want to implement a similar program in your local community so you can go ahead and get in touch with him as well. So I'm sure we can have a whole day's worth of conversations around this but this is a good start. Thank you so much and I hope to see you at one of the other events. Thank you. All right thank you Thomas bye. That's it for today's episode be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at grief and light or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here for being you and always remember you are not alone