Cat's Cosmic Compass: Navigating Loss, Faith, Forgiveness, and Freedom

In this deeply introspective episode, Catherine Baars opens up about her personal experiences with grief, especially in the context of navigating a complex relationship with her father, whom she lost a mere six months as of this recording. 

For as long as she can remember, Cat's relationship with her father was strained due to his substance use disorder, which eventually led to their estrangement and a final reconciliation before he passed.

She bravely shares insights into the delicate interplay between death and spirituality, shedding light on her own healing journey from religious trauma.

As a professional astrologer, Cat guides others towards understanding their life's purpose through dedicated readings based on each individual's birth chart.

Through her unique perspective and lived experience, she offers a message of hope, healing, and resilience to anyone grappling with life's profound changes and challenges. 

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

He seemed better, but we had a chat with the hospital. They said, yeah, he's still not good. His kidneys are still failing. His body was attacking him. And they said, we just want to make him comfortable. They told me it might be a week, it might be a couple days before he passes. It was the very next morning at 4.20 in the morning on June the 3rd. So I don't know why it was so quick, but I think something about the chat that I had with him, I think he finally felt released. At this point in my grief journey, it's been about six months since he passed. I've come to a point where I appreciate him for what he could do. And he couldn't do much, but I appreciate the fact that he wanted to know that I was okay. I remember him telling me in hospital, I just want to know that you'll be okay. And I said, I'll be okay, Dad. You just lost your loved one.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast, where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. What do grief and astrology have in common? Today we have the privilege of exploring a very interesting topic of conversation with a remarkable guest, Catherine Barr, who also goes by Katz. She is a professional astrologer, and she not only helps others find their life's purpose through astrology, but she is also navigating the complexities of grief in her own life after the recent loss of her father. Kat courageously shares her insights on the intricacies of grieving a complex relationship, the interplay between death and spirituality, and her healing journey from religious trauma. Through her work, she imparts a message of hope for anyone grappling with the intricate tapestry of life's changes. With that said, welcome to the Griefs and Light podcast. Kat. Thank you so much for having me, Nina. I'm very honored to be here. It's my pleasure. So we have two parts that we're going to address. The first part is going to be Kat's personal story, which is very interesting and I'm excited to get to know more about it. And then the second part is going to be that Kat the Astrologer giving us some insights as to what we can look at in our own birth charts. For everybody listening, very quickly, I met Kat through uh Vilma. If you've heard my previous podcast, you know that Vilma was my career coach. And Kat works closely with Vilma, helping people find aligned careers through their birth charts. And if you're not familiar with astrology, I'll let her get to the details of my limited understanding astrology one-on-one. It's sort of like a snapshot of planets and energies were aligned when you were born. It's sort of a blueprint for each person. And in my own personal journey, Kat helped me gain a lot of clarity through my own birth chart, which helped me solidify what I'm doing here with you in grief and light. And that we'll talk about that later. First, we're gonna dig into her story. Kat, you lost your father, who I understand suffered from a substance use disorder. And you had a very strained relationship. So can you tell us a little bit about that? And you may start wherever you like.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Absolutely. So my dad was an alcoholic for pretty much the majority of my life. Uh, my the life I can remember. And, you know, I I had always had a um a blended family. So my mom and dad got divorced when I was young. And I didn't really understand as a child, right? Like what does alcoholism mean? It was very complicated as a as a young kid for that reason. When you're a teenager, you know, you rebel against your parents and you question why they do the things they do. So, to be honest, I mean, it was really hard as a teenager uh with his alcoholism, and that's why the relationship became so difficult and so estranged. I spent quite a few years actually never seeing him. Um, and I mean it just got worse and worse, the abuse of the alcohol. And as I became into my, you know, mid-teens, I started reaching out to him again. And he was still very sick. Uh he had gone through he'd gone through uh two divorces at this point, by the way. So he was on his third marriage, uh, which was also a very complicated story in my relationship with him. Uh, but it was just really, you know, difficult to put the father that I wanted in my mind, you know, and what I desired and what I needed and deserved, and align that with what I actually had. So I became sort of very detached from him, actually, emotionally speaking. And at some point, I didn't even see him as a father. I just saw him as this man in my life who was kind of frustrating me all the time because I was I wanted more and I used to demand more, and then one day I realized, well, it's not going anywhere. I can't demand anything from him, he's very sick. Uh, but it was already too late by that point because by the time you grow up and you understand addiction as a child or as a young adult, it's too late and they've done the damage. So he had developed countless health problems, liver disease. Um, you know, he had diabetes, he had heart problems, kidney problems, and he was in and out of hospital b uh from I would say from when I was 17, and I'm 22 now, by the way. So he he actually passed away this year, but he was in and out of hospital like every year, and he just wasn't taking his health seriously, and I wasn't taking it seriously, so it became so damaged the relationship that it seemed like neither of us really cared. And i c clearly he didn't. And I find that people with addiction, it's very hard for them to actually take control over their life and care about their health because it's such a damaging cycle. But in any case, throughout the end of his journey on Earth, he uh he was in and out of hospital months at a time this time, and his last stint in hospital, he was there for quite some time. He had developed uh a super bug in the hospital. I can't remember the name, I think it's MRSA or something like this, and it was uh causing a very bad infection in his leg. They essentially told him, either we amputate your leg or we do nothing about it. He obviously did not want an amputation, clearly, because he was already so sick he just couldn't even fathom living with uh an amputated leg. Um, but by that point it wasn't even the MRSA that got him. It was the liver problems and his kidneys were failing on him as we spoke. Uh, it was such a difficult time though, because we had not been in contact for many years at this point, I think about two years, and I I to I did decide to go see him in hospital when I found out that he was sick. And I it was very hard for me to even know that he was sick because no one was telling me. Uh, but uh uh somehow the hospital got my number, they called me, they said, your dad's very sick, do you want to come see him? He's probably not gonna be here for much longer. So I did, uh was really difficult. Um, he was very incoherent at that time as well because of uh all of the infection was messing with his brain as well, so it was very hard to talk to him, but we had a very meaningful conversation um when he was still had some sort of you know coherency, and it was very healing. I'm really glad that I went to go see him. Uh, but it seemed for the time being he was getting better. And I don't know if you are aware of this, Nina, but you know how some people they seem as though they're um in the dying process, and then they get that one final, you know, burst of life. And this is very common apparently, uh, according to nurses. People would just all of a sudden they seem better, but then they pass away like the next day. So he seemed better, but we had a chat with the hospital, they said, yeah, he's still not good, his kidneys are still failing. Um, basically, his body was attacking him, and they said, we just want to make him comfortable. And I said, That's understandable. I totally get that. They made him comfortable, they told me it might be a week, it might be a couple days before he passes. It was the very next morning at 4.20 in the morning on June the 3rd. So I don't know why it was so quick, but I think something about maybe the chat that I had with him, uh, I don't know, I think he felt ready. I think he finally felt released. And at this point in my grief journey, it's been about six months since he passed. So I think I've come to a point where I I I appreciate him for what he could do, and he couldn't do much, but I appreciate the fact that he wanted to know that I was okay. I remember him telling me in hospital, I just want to know that you'll be okay. And I said, I'll be okay, Dad. And I guess that that comforted him. Uh, but it was still really hard to have that chat with him because I still had that anger in me, and I just had to put that anger aside and say, he's not capable of dealing with that right now. He can, he's at the end of his life. Why would I put that burden on him? It just didn't make sense, so I just didn't. And I could I said, I forgive you, and yeah, that's uh that's the story in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

I mean, there's way more to it. No, I I thank you for sharing that. And before any other comment, I'm so sorry, you know, this pain that is a lot to deal with, especially as a young child, and such a complex relationship, even for adults to who understand the dynamics to navigate. And, you know, it just it's so much more amplified when you are just a child who's trying to figure what is going on, right? Like what is happening here and the anger, you know, it's like you feel so many things. You feel the anger, you feel the loss, you grieve them while they're still alive, and you grieve what, like you said, the father you deserved and didn't have, and the discrepancy between here's what I want, here's what I deserve, and then here's what's actually happening. And that's a very, very difficult thing to handle. So at any age, but especially when when you're young. So thank you for sharing that. I'm very sorry. And I'm very sorry for the last six months, is is very early. This dynamic, it's painful nonetheless. And it sounds like at least in that moment of lucidity, which is common before somebody's going to pass. I've heard stories of people who had Alzheimer's and they weren't able to speak, and all of a sudden, right before they passed, they're completely lucid. They speak to you normally, they remember their families, and all of a sudden they you know that's it. It was like a final goodbye. And it sounds like you got, I'm not gonna say closure, but I'm gonna say some words of comfort right before. Yeah, I definitely did, yeah. And at what point did you realize that he had a problem and it wasn't you? Like it at what point did you realize, oh, it's it's him, he's he's going through something?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Such a good question. I have that realization. Uh, and other times, even now, I'm like, oh, well, you know, I could have done things to, you know, help him or make him desire alcohol less. And it's just not a burden that anyone should have. I think I probably realized that, you know, he had the problem when I was very young, maybe 13. I remember very vividly, I was at my mum's house and I never told her anything about what was going on at my dad's house. And that's the thing about having like divorced parents. You're almost ashamed of the other parent when you're speaking. So when like when I was with my mum, I was ashamed of speaking about my dad. When I was with my dad, I was ashamed of speaking about my mum. It's very bizarre because you you still pick up on those little, you know, uh on the anger between your parents. And so you want to appear as though you're on, you know, one parent's side. Like, I'm on your side, mum, or I know I'm on your side, dad. But then one day I was like, why am I on my dad's side? He's the he's the addict here. Uh, and obviously I was very angry about it as a teenager. And I was at my mum's house and I said, Mom, I am so sick of keeping all this in. I'm like gonna burst. I I felt like a bottle, you know, a bottle of soda or something that would be shaken up and I was just gonna explode. So I just said, Mom, this is what's going on. And she knew none of it. She knew that he was an alcoholic, sure, but she didn't know how bad it was. She just completely didn't understand. He was very good at being a uh he was very good at hiding it, um, and kind of still being a normal human. Like he still went to work, he still saw a couple friends. I mean, he didn't have a lot of friends, but he still saw a couple. But he was mainly alone, and I would just, you know, I I just told her all this and she said, you don't need to see him if you don't want to. And I said, Really? Why not? And she said, It's not your fault. And that's when it clicked. I was like, oh, he's an alcoholic, and that's not my problem, and I don't need to surround myself with that. So I think it was a good thing at the time that I decided not to see him, because in those formative teenage years, I think being around him any more than I had to would have really messed some things up. But also when I stopped seeing him, the anger from him exploded. He was furious. Um, and he I think that that really built up resentment. And now at my age, now I look back and I think if I had approached it differently, if I had said maybe all right, I'll still see him, but I will emotionally detach, or something along these lines, maybe he wouldn't have built up so much resentment towards me. In any case, I made the choice I had. It felt as if everything changed then, and I went down this faded path of having a very estranged relationship with him, and he was very upset with me, very angry. I think he was lonely, and I left him, and he was relying on me for emotional support, basically. I was almost like the parent in the relationship. I remember having to like console him, and he would always cry to me, and I would it's it's as if I was his therapist sometimes as a 13-year-old kid. And I think that's when it clicked. So to answer your question, probably 13 is when I was like, you have a problem. He didn't he didn't recognize it, he didn't go to therapy, he went to rehab a couple times, but as you know, like I'm you know, with addiction, it's just very hard for people to stop. And even if they go to rehab a couple times, often they relapse, and he did. And he didn't, but it to me, it didn't seem like he tried. It didn't seem like he put in the effort to try and get better. So in my teenage self, I said, Well, I'm not gonna try then, because you're not trying, I'm not gonna try. And I basically resigned to any sort of hope.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

That's very heavy for somebody so young to to carry, so I'm so sorry. I also see the maturity in your statements because addiction is very, very, very complex. It's a beast, it leaves so much collateral damage and it leaves so much pain and so many broken pieces wherever it touches. And a lot of that, you know, like you said, is is the I don't want to give it a label, but what I know in my personal experience, a lot of it is the codependency beliefs that we have like if only I could do this, maybe they wouldn't be doing that. And the fact it's almost like we feel like if we could do X, Y, Z, then the other person will be fixed, or they will choose this over the addiction or substance use. And that's not how it works. That's not the beast, that's not how it, that's not how it works. So I'm glad that at the age of 13, your mother, with that question in a way unlocked something for you and that realization that it's really not me. It's it's him. Nevertheless, it doesn't always become that clear. It's you we don't always carry that clarity. You know, it's still very painful when they're not there the way that you need them. And I'm sure there's a lot of heaviness with seeing your father cry on your shoulder when you're like, hey, I'm the one that has the kid here, right? So thank you for sharing that. And that's very heavy. Do you mind sharing his name? Uh yes, of course, his name's Arthur. Arthur. So we honor Arthur in his imperfection because we're all human. We're here to learn, I believe. And sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't. But it sounds like at the end of the day, his heart and his real concern for his daughter came through, even if it was at the very last minute. And I think that that's very valuable.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah. Yeah, it was very meaningful to hear that. It really was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Do you have any siblings or were you are you his only biological child with your mom?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Yeah, so I'm I'm the only child uh for him and my mom actually. I have two stepbrothers on my mom's side, so my mum's husband, my stepdad.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

So he passes, unfortunately, this was six months ago. How have things shifted since? How has your grief evolved since, or has it evolved since? It has.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

I think it's on and off, uh, the anger. But I've forgotten many bad parts of our relationship. It's so funny. Grief is like so it it can be so torturing sometimes because you especially in the early days, you're so angry, you still remember like all of the nasty things that they said and did to you, and you s you just think, why couldn't you have changed for me? You felt like I remember feeling like you didn't change for anyone, but you couldn't have even changed for your own daughter. Like that was just you know what I mean? Like nothing was going to stop him. It was a disease. It just felt like a betrayal. It just felt like, I don't know, why wasn't I good enough for you to change? Again, uh that you start blaming yourself a little bit, but it's not valid. I mean, I mean it's valid, but it's not real. The blame that I placed on myself was a burden that I didn't need to place on myself. But in any case, I mean I was angry still. I was initially uh in a lot of shock. Uh it was an expected passing. I mean, it's not like it was a sudden loss, but it was shocking because I was so detached for so long, emotionally speaking, from him as my father. And then I remember just sitting down one day, like a month after he passed, and it clicked. And I was like, oh my god, one of my parents is dead. Like I am half an orphan. I know that sounds silly, but one of the people that brought me into this world is not in the world anymore. And I guess I had associated my stepdad as my actual father for a long time as well. So, like an authority figure, you know, someone who was actually caring for me when my dad died. I was like, oh my god, my dad died. It just clicked. And ever since then, I feel like I've been forgetting all of the bad things of the relationship, and I've been having memories from childhood surface up again. Good memories. And we and that's the thing about these complicated relationships. There are going to be good memories. It's not just 100% bad. I remember doing lovely things with him, especially when he was like in a sober, more of a sober state. Uh, I remember being a kid and he would take me to school or we'd go on lovely holidays. And he was, as a kid, he was the quote unquote fun parent because my mum was the hardworking one. And as a kid, you don't realize, oh, well, you know, your mum cares more about you because she's actually working to support you. But my dad, he takes me on holidays, so he's the fun guy. But that's how I used to see it. Now I realize, oh, he had the money to do that because he wasn't actually supporting me financially. That's a whole other can of worms. But I had a lot of great memories and I keep remembering them, and I'm like, then I have these moments of actual grief where I'm like, oh, I want him back. But I don't really because when he was here, it was so strained. And if he were to come back, what would be different? Do you know what I mean? Like, he would still have an addiction, it would still be a difficult relationship. I miss what could have been, not what was. I do think that my grief has evolved into more of a place of missing what could have been, but also acceptance, and I think my grief has evolved into a place of empathy for him. I found it very hard to have empathy for him, and to this day I regret it because I remember seeing him in hospital, and it's hard to admit, but I found it hard to feel sorry for him. I did. Because I I thought to myself, well, you put yourself here, and you didn't want to change, and I was angry. So I found it really hard to feel sorry for the pain he was in, and he was in a lot of physical pain. I didn't tell that to him, I knew better than that. I, you know, I was I was kind to him, but I was cold. I was emotionally detached. I think I cried with him once, and now I am coming from a bit of a place of regret where I I wish I had really sat there with him and said, I am so sorry that this is the life you've had. Because he he did have a a lot of mental health issues, and it's not fully his fault the addiction. Some people are just more prone to addiction than others, and he was one of them. But I've come to a place of understanding and having empathy for the fact that he had an addiction and how hard that was in his life and how sad he was for the majority of his life. So I think that's where my groove has evolved now, and it's helped me to open up emotionally. I've cried a lot more than I have since he first passed away. Let's just say that.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Which makes perfect sense. Every emotion that you described is completely valid in its fullness. We're human, we're we're allowed to have human feelings. Sometimes we can have empathy, and other times anger, and other times compassion, and other times blaming, and it's all okay. So I hear this amazing evolution in a relatively short amount of time, to be honest. And it's beautiful and painful all at the same time. I could also hear, so the concept of what you said, you had this realization of, oh, I'm half an orphan, is a feeling that I've heard of people when people lose their parent, because all of a sudden it's what we know as like the secondary losses. You start having these ripple effects of the primary loss, which is the physical loss of your father. So what does that make me now? So am I am I half an orphan? Do I still have a debt? Like, how does this work? Who am I? What it what is this? And we start, as time goes by, redefining so much because we have the ability to view things so differently through the lens of grief. It's still heavy, and my heart goes out to you. It's a very heavy experience to carry. You do it in a way that's very authentic. So thank you very much for sharing that. How has your relationship with life and the afterlife evolved since this? I know you also had an experience with religion, and maybe we can tap into that conversation. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

This conversation excites me as much as it equally scares me. I think since his passing, I um I've been even more afraid of death than I ever have. But at the same time, I it's opened up an opportunity for me to explore it in a non-judgmental way. Because I used to be very religious, which is such a bizarre change now that I'm an astrologer. Back in my religious days, I would have gotten so mad at my astrology self now. I would have said, you're a heretic, you know, you're going the hell, whatever. And now I see that astrology is so helpful for anyone, and it's not, and I I I don't see it as a demonic thing anymore, but I used to see it as a demonic thing. I used to see any form of spirituality as demonic, actually, if it wasn't strictly uh strictly Christian. So I was I was Christian religious, mainly like Pentecostal. I wanted to be a housewife. I don't know why I went down that path, but I guess I was searching for some sort of meaning at that time. For a little bit of time, it did give me meaning, but I took it into a dark place. I I became quite religious in 2020. And as you know, like spending a lot of time indoors, I didn't have a lot to do. So I pretty much spent most of my hours of a day of the day watching religious content. And that like, I think that that actually brainwashed me quite heavily. And I used to get really scared for everyone around me because I was like, oh my god, you know, you're all going to hell. I need to share the gospel with you. And so, especially when it came to dad, this was such a big theme, my religious journey and dad, because I was going through a lot of religious guilt of like, you're not forgiving enough. You're not, you know, you're not giving your father enough grace. Why are you still angry? You shouldn't be angry, angry is sin, anger is bad, stop being angry, all of this sort of stuff. Plus, the fear of him dying was weighing heavily on me. I did not want him to die and go to hell. And it was such an ingrained belief in me that I remember I couldn't sleep at night because I was worried. What if he dies in the night and he goes to hell and I didn't do anything about it? I didn't try and get him saved. What if I die? I don't know why I thought I would die, but what if I die and I go to hell? And I was just so afraid of hell. And the correlation I think between punishment, you know, seeing a male father figure as a punishing figure and thinking of God or spirit or the universe or whatever you want to say as someone who punishes is very strong because I used to see my dad as someone who would punish or someone who would get angry, you know, and and I didn't see him as a loving parent. So I think that there was some correlation there as well. And I used to just be afraid of authority. I used to be afraid of a father figure, basically. So there was that correlation, but also it was it was just an intense fear of dying. It was an intense fear of the unknown, like what happens. And I'm sure many people can relate to that, and I still have that fear sometimes. But it was such a difficult journey in unlearning that and being comfortable with the unknown. And I just cannot fathom like where I am now, I cannot fathom a man like my father who suffered so much on earth, who was just trying to figure it out. And that's the thing about a lot of us humans, we make mistakes. I see us as like toddlers. We're just trying to figure it out. We make mistakes, we break things, but we're trying our very best. And he always used to tell me, my dad he always used to say, I'm trying my best. At the time I didn't see it. Now I understand what he meant. He was. He was trying his very best because he was so sick. And I think it was so difficult to unlearn the punishment ideas, like, oh my gosh, you know, we're all going to be punished for our sins in hell. And he especially, because he didn't believe in God, he didn't believe in Jesus. So I I remember unlearning all that before he passed away, but still I had these lingering fears. When he passed away, I was years out from my uh religious trauma, but I still have these lingering fears of what if? What if there is a bad place? And now having someone who's actually passed away in my life, sometimes I fear. Sometimes I think, what if he's in hell right now? And it's such a passing fear. I don't even give it any time of day. I immediately, as soon as I think that, I'm like, nope, it's just something that, you know, was ingrained into you. It's what people you, you know, people used hell to control others, people used the fear of hell to control others. He's happy. Like I know he's happy because how can someone go through such a pain in life and then still be tormented after life? I just couldn't understand it. And I couldn't understand a a loving father such as God, and you know, and and and this is a stereotype that we think of, a loving father, right? Who sees their child, my dad, in so much pain and then just wants to give them more pain. Like my dad said, he suffered and he tried his best, and I just and now I see him as someone who who was honestly just weak. And and that's the thing. He was just trying to work through his own trauma, his own pain. He just wasn't doing it very well. And why should he suffer for that? I think he's released of all his burdens now, and I've come to a place of being very open to any sort of afterlife, but whatever it is, I think it's good. I sometimes have lingering fears of what if there's nothing, I think, oh my god, that scares me so much, Nina. Like, I'm just like, oh, if there's just a void, I'm gonna freak out. But I just have to believe, like, I will go crazy in my life if I don't believe in something. And I just think holding on to that belief of there is something good after this life keeps me sane. I know some people are fine with the idea of nothing, but I am not one of those people.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

I hear you, and I'm laughing with you as well because after my brother died, I had this similar kind of search, this thirst to be like, okay, so what happened? I was brought up Catholic and I've been uh in the Christian church, and so you had that as a baseline, and all of a sudden that doesn't really quite fit with your life experience and your concerns and your life and all this stuff. And very much like you, I started searching for anything, like any other religions and near-death stories, and what happens here, and who has come back and who's been resuscitated, and what did they say? And I've just been immersed in this world. The way I look at a religion and beliefs is like with anything else. Is it useful to the person believing it, or is it not useful to the person believing it? And at the end of the day, nobody's come back enough to tell us how it is. It's supposed to be good, supposed to be it, it's so good they don't come back. It's the way I look at it. You know, they don't come back to life. In you, I hear somebody that just wanted to protect and care for and make sure that everybody's going to be okay. And a lot of times religion does provide that baseline for a lot of people. And if it's useful to somebody, then hey, by all means, believe what your heart resonates with. It's interesting because you said it really kicked into high gear in 2020. So we're having the pandemic. And were you religious before that? I didn't catch that. Were you more religious before that? Or it literally started to become a major influence in your life during the pandemic? I was a little bit religious before that.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

I think what had happened was I actually went through a similar experience like yours. I was looking for answers about the afterlife. I don't know why, but around age 17, that was what I was doing. I was looking at all these sort of near-death experiences. And that kind of spurred me on my like spiritual awakening where I was like, okay, you know, maybe there's a God. And I I kind of just asked, I said, God, if you're real, can you just help me not be afraid anymore? And for a few months, I had no fear. I was like, if I die, I'll be fine. Because I think actually, you know, a God did help me. And by the way, I still believe in God. Like, I don't, I don't disbelieve in God. And I I absolutely agree with you. I think if religion works for you on your path, then it is perfect for you. And I'm very open to everyone's own path. If it's meant to be in your path, it's meant to be in your life, that's great. For me, it became a source of anxiety to be quite religious. So I just was like, no way, I'm just what what is the point in torturing myself? I think if there is a God, then he understands that that is why I had to leave the very heavily religious mindset. Because I I was I was suffering. So I I was a little bit religious beforehand, not very. In 2020, I guess being inside led me to have a lot more time on my hands and led me into a whole YouTube rabbit hole where I was just absorbing all different types of really, really fanatic people, like extremely fanatic, fire uh right-wing, conservative, Christian, evangelical, whatever you want to say. And and you're right, it was coming from a place of care. I I wanted everyone around me to be saved, but it became to the point where I became a fanatic and I became like a zealot, basically. I would tell people all the time, don't do that, you're sinning, don't do that, that's a sin. You're gonna go to hell. Please don't go to hell. It was coming from a place of love, but really I was becoming quite judgmental. So I'm glad I'm out of that. But yeah, it did take a long, long time to heal from all of the learning I did and to not be afraid anymore of punishment, basically.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

The fact that you're able to recognize that eventually and separate yourself from that anxiety of having to rescue and fix and know this is the way, this is that it and I think that's important because religion serves a very important function for the person that is sharing those beliefs and then applying them to their own life. But when you start, not you, but when a person starts relating trying to apply those same same things to other people and interfere with the other person's free will and the other person's beliefs, then it becomes a control thing, not necessarily out of evil, but just out of usually just anxiety. Anxiety about like, oh no, this is gonna happen. I need to control this and fix this. And like you said, you were consuming so much of this information. So it was being reinforced. Like there's so much evidence based on the things that you were watching that reinforced that you're like, oh no, like it kicks up the anxiety and you have to like help other people, quote unquote. It's not that unusual. I believe people are in their seasons and some people go through different religious explorations. Like I said, I was first Catholic and then Christian, and then I've been to unity churches and I've been to all these things, just looking for different answers. I've read different books. And when somebody's really steeped into one belief, I don't always judge them there because it just rang true for them at that time. And oftentimes that evolves into something else. And in your case, it evolved into the world of astrology. And I'm very curious to know how you pivoted from one site to the other. And just tell us about that particular transition because 2020 was only, you know, three years ago. So it wasn't that long ago. So how did that come about?

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yeah, that's really interesting because I um it's funny because I was actually always into astrology as a kid. So when I was like 12 or 11 or something, I remember I got my birth chart and I was like, this is fascinating. And I was obsessed with astrology my young teenage years, I think 14, 15. I loved it. I I was obsessed, but I was always that weird kid in school that was like just trying to search for spiritual answers. And I I think I have a brain or a I there's something in me that's prone to anxious thinking. And I'm always like, well, what if it's wrong? What if astrology's wrong? So when I was maybe uh 16, that's when I was like, all right, I'm just gonna have a look at other spiritualities, like I'll look at religion, why not? Um, and then what one, you know, once I got on all of the uh all of the thoughts and and learned more about the Bible and everything, I saw that, oh, astrology's bad. Better stop that. So I did. I actually did stop astrology for a long time. And that's the thing, like, you know, nowadays I just think if that's why I'm so accepting of people's beliefs because I've been there. I've been in the place where, oh, astrology's so stupid or astrology's evil even. And so I if people think that, I accept it. I'm like, that's what that's okay. And I I've just come to a point in my in my journey where I just want to accept everyone's path. Because yeah, you know, w we're all just going off what we know and what we believe. But I guess what had happened was when I healed from the religion, I still wanted something. And I I don't know, I cannot even remember the exact time that I got back into astrology. I think I just remember like, you know, healing from religion, watching people who had deconstructed religious, um, heavily religious thinking on YouTube, and I think I it I it landed me in some sort of astrology point in YouTube, and this is the thing, it's all through YouTube, which is probably not healthy, but anyway, uh I was like, oh, okay, I remember astrology. Like that was interesting, I guess. Maybe I could explore this again because it was a real passion of mine, and you know, the only reason I stopped it was because I believed it was evil, but is it evil or is it helpful? And I started to realize it was very helpful. So what had happened was I ordered a reading from someone and they literally had told me that in my healing journey, religion was a big theme of pain and fear. And I was like, I like laughed and I was like, wait a second, no way. They told me that the transits of 2020 and 2021 were particularly troubling for my spiritual journey and fear of religion and and all sorts of scary things regarding, you know, death and all of that sort of thing. And a lot of it was stemming from that that fear of death, basically. That's why I uh be was heavily involved in religion. I just didn't want to go to a bad place, basically. So when I got that reading, I was like, oh my god, it was written. It was written in my stars, of course. So I realized, oh, astrology is actually really helpful. And I got back into it, I relearned a lot of it, and then I uh I don't know what led me into doing it professionally. I guess I was just very obsessed with it. Uh, and I just uh started making I started doing readings for people, and they said, Oh, you should probably do this for money now. And I was like, Oh, okay, maybe I should. So I got on Etsy and I put up a couple listings, and there you go. Uh the rest is history. And the rest is history. How did you get in touch with Vilma? Oh, okay. So she she actually reached out uh to me for her own career reading, and I guess she really liked it. I remember specifically saying in her career reading something along the lines of, it looks like you help people find their purpose. And it looks like you help people like you lead people into finding their purpose, and it's coming out of a place of helping them find their passions. I can't remember word for word, but it was something along those lines. And she messaged me and she's like, Holy crap, I'm a career coach. And I was like, Oh, okay. And she said, Um, can you do career readings for my clients? And I was like, Yeah, I can. And now, you know, now I'm working with her and I feel so amazed. And like, I only started this a year ago to I think it's coming up in the year anniversary, and I'm just so amazed at how far it's come and I'm connecting with amazing people from all over the world. And sometimes I'm like, wait a second, I'm actually doing this? Like, what how did this happen? And now I'm connecting with you, and it's just I'm so blessed, and I and I I feel as though I've been rewarded for for finding my path. And I don't want to see things as like, oh, you know, you get rewarded for doing good things. That's not what I'm saying. It's more like I feel aligned, I feel more accepting of everyone's own path. And I guess, you know, God has blessed me and helped me on this path. And I don't see why I would be so supported on this path if it was evil. Like surely by now I would be feeling more anxiety, or surely I would have terrible things happen to me. I know my dad passed away, but that's not, you know, that's I don't see anything as punishment anymore because that's not a healthy place to be. And I don't see my dad passing away as punishing me. It's it's life.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

That's that's life. Life will life and it'll do what it needs to do. And it has nothing to do with, oh, with this punishing one person. I feel like it's really an egotistical uh perspective because it's like, oh, I I really have that much power that somebody dies because of something. You know, it's it, I don't, I really wholeheartedly do not believe it works that way. I'm thankful that you're following this path and you're extremely good at it. I'm I'm thankful for all of these connections. I agree, and Vilma would be so proud with all of the things that we're saying. An aligned path is an expansive path, and that is in life and work and spirituality and everything. So I firmly believe that when things are glowy and as we've learned, when they happen very organically and naturally and quote unquote easy, a lot of people equate easy with, oh, you have to work harder. No, you do not. Easy for one person is somebody else's hard. And just because it's easy for you doesn't mean that it's easy for me. I probably wouldn't even know where to start, and vice versa. And so our strengths, your strengths, somebody else's strength, everybody has their advantage or what I call like the unfair advantage that they can tap into because it's their gift, it's really their gift. And this is very much a gift for you. You did my reading where you mentioned for the listeners, she had my birth date, she had my birth time, birth location, and name. And that's it. And she gave a 20-minute reading, she sent it to Vilma, Vilma sent it to me, and everything Kat said was like, Does this person had have you been following me my whole life? Like, who are you? What is going on here? And she one of the things that she said was that I would suffer a big loss earlier in life, and or multiple losses earlier in life that would completely change the course of my life, what I do and who I am, and et cetera, et cetera. And paraphrasing, those weren't your exact words, but it was how I received it. And needless to say, the loss of my brother has completely reshaped my life completely. And it validated a lot of beliefs that I wasn't sure about back then. And without us having a conversation, your reading just, you know, it was like one, two, three, addressing every single concern and every single point that I had. And all of this out of the snapshot of the alignment on the day that I was born and the hour that I was born. It's very powerful for whoever understands it, resonates with it. Great. If you don't, that's fine. You know, it's it's something that's very personal. But I find it to be very powerful. Before we get into the the details about astrology and and how it plays into grief and success and information that you can gather from a natal chart, for example. Let's do some astrology 101 for the listeners who maybe are like, ah, I've kind of heard about it. Something about I'm a Virgo or a Taurus or whatever. And that's as limited as most people's knowledge to goes. So tell the listeners a very broad overview of what is astrology, what are the big three, and the difference between a sign, a planet, and a house. Let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Okay. Great. So yeah, I think uh it's funny because, like you said, the big three, uh, people's knowledge of astrology is getting uh getting more and more these days. So I get very excited to see that. But essentially, we may think, oh, you know, I'm a Taurus son, but I don't I don't relate to what the Taurus qualities are. And if you're in that position where you know your sun sign but you don't relate, essentially what the birth chart is, is you have to have your exact time. It's very complicated. But if you put in your time of birth, your date of birth into any sort of astrology calculator, you'll get a very complicated looking chart, looks like a maths equation, and it will have all of the planets at the time of your birth and where they were in the sky, uh, like the planets of the solar system. And each planet can be in any different zodiac sign, but the big three, which is a very important, essentially we have what's called the sun sign, which most people know about. That's like your horoscope that you read in the magazine. You have your moon sign, which changes uh far more often. Think of the moon cycle, right? 20 to 7 to 28 days. Moves throughout the zodiac, we all the exact same amount. And then we have the rising sign, which starts off the first house. So the houses are numbered one through to 12, just like there are 12 zodiac signs. Each house is kind of correlated to a different sign, but uh like you know, Aries is the first sign of the zodiac, so that's kind of correlated with the first house, but you can have your first house starting in any of the signs, and that's really gonna set up a lot of your individual experiences. So if you don't relate to your sun sign being in Taurus, well, maybe it's because you have your sun in the eighth house, which is the house of Scorpio. It's exactly the opposite sign. So you you really got to take into account the bigger picture here. The birth chart tells a story, there's so many intricacies, and the houses will represent just different areas of your life, and they have very definitive meanings and what what it represents, and then the planets represent different types of energy. The sun is your solar energy, it's your vitality, the moon is your emotions, Venus is love, all of these sorts of things, and and they'll just show different qualities in different signs and different houses, and then you also have how the planets are aspecting each other. Think of the planets communicating with each other, and and that can also change your life experience. So it's super complicated when you when I said put it like that, but I hope that gives like a rough overview of you know why it runs so much deeper than just your horoscope in the magazine.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

It's like a math equation. That's the better the best analogy that I've personally heard because it really is. There's all these elements, and you're factoring in quite literally, even geometry, like the angles from the sun to a certain planet. So you're factoring in the angles, you're factoring in what each represents. So I have some notes here. I I took notes off, did a little bit of research that I could do, no more or less that I was talking about. But for example, I read that, and you correct me if I'm wrong. Planets represent the what. So it's like, what is your prominent behavior? Zodiac signs are the how. So they're like an archetype showing how behaviors manifest in your life. And then the houses are the where this is manifesting in your life. And I thought that was that's a that's a good way to describe it. But then you there's so many elements. It's like you said, you have the the major three, but on top of those major three, you have transits, and some of them are very short, they could be days, and then longer ones could be years. So how do you how do you put this all together to read one person's chart? Like, where do you start when you're doing a reading? Do you do it basically if based on the question that the client is asking? So let's say a client wants to know like what career is aligned with my blueprint. Do you start there immediately, or do you just get a bigger picture and then go narrow? That makes it sense there.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

That's no, that's a very good question. I think if it's a specific reading, like a career reading, I don't want to waste too much time talking about the general overview. But what I will do is I will start with what represents career and astrology, which will be the 10th house and the sixth house. The 10th house is your reputation, the sixth house is your day-to-day work routine and like what you need out of your day-to-day work to feel satisfied. So I'll kind of start off with those two houses. And I I do work quite intuitively, so I'm also drawn to other planets as well. You know, if it seems to me in the birth chart that a another planet is affecting the career, I'll I will talk about that planet. Or I might even talk about some healing that is is needed. Like, for example, in your um, in your career reading, Nina, I'm I remember that a placement that really indicates healing and loss was intrinsically tied to your purpose. And I don't know if this is word for word, but I feel like I said something like loss is a big point of your purpose, specifically in career and working through loss. And you're a grief coach. So um I feel like it it it just I just use what is what I see as being included in the career. But if it's like a general chart reading, I'm really drawn to what I see. I I talk about all the planets, but I also do it quite intuitively and and what I feel drawn to talk about for that person. I listen to that because I do feel like, you know, perhaps there is a message from God or spirit or whatever you want to say, and perhaps that person needs to hear it at that time, but other things will be relevant for them at different times. And that's also is the case with transits. I'll focus on transits that seem very prominent for the person, and any ones that really stand out to me as like this person needs to hear this about this transit because this is important. And like you said, transits can last for days, they can last for years, some can even last for hours. Like the moon, the moon moves very quickly. Um, but those are not as important because the moon goes around every 27 days, so you you have those transits quite often. But the longer-term transits are important for the person, and the slower moving planets like Pluto and and Neptune and Uranus are all the ones all the way out there, they move very slowly, so they're definitely important. But yeah, I think the general overview of the chart is is is it's it's I see it as if it's telling a story of the person, and that's how I like to see the birth chart. It's like it's like their story. Sometimes they're not gonna be in that chapter or in at this time in their life, but right now they're in this chapter, so I'll I'll kind of focus on that if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. And can you tell when you're reading, when you're getting the the overall picture of a person's chart, can you tell when there's going to be like a major change in their life? Can you tell when there's more support for a path that they're trying to choose or changes that they're trying to make? Or let's say if somebody wants to buy a house, and is you know, maybe can you tell, like maybe then not this time, but focus more on this time, or how does that work? What do you see?

SPEAKER_01 51:16

So if people are asking specific questions like that, like when should I change my career, or you know, is this going to be a big moment in my career? I will look at transits through either the sixth house or the 10th house. And I have noticed as a trend, people will buy career readings when they already have very, very important transits in their 10th house. It's almost like they know that they're in a time period of great transition. I know when I bought a career reading from someone, I had so much going into my 10th house, and that's actually when I started my astrology business. But um, in any case, like I will focus on major transits through there, what wherever this may be, like this could be Jupiter, for example. Jupiter is a benefic planet, meaning it brings good fortune. So if Jupiter's moving through the 10th house, I'm going to tell the person, well, you're probably going through a lot of growth in your career. Uh, there's gonna be a lot of different areas to expand and find abundance. If it's a planet that's a little bit more difficult, like Saturn, and Saturn is one that restricts but also matures, I would say something along the lines of, you know, perhaps you're not gonna feel very aligned in your career during this transit, or alternatively, you know, you're just encouraged to work a lot harder, to to reshift things so that you feel aligned in your career. Maybe it's not a transit that indicates a total change, but one that indicates a longer transit or time period of overall growth, perhaps restriction, but this is only to get the the person to put in the effort and then they can reap the benefits of that effort. Those are some of the transits that I would look to. And even transits, you know, like you said, when should someone buy a house? Anything through the fourth house, the fourth house is property and home. I would look to that. Major changes, you know, there are lots of transits that can suggest a very major change. I have noticed as a trend that wherever the north node is moving is where there is bigger changes. So the north node is like kind of the point in astrology that represents destiny, expansion, where you're encouraged to grow into. So whatever house the north node is transiting to, it's it's gonna be an area of life that is expanding more, becoming more important to the person. Let's say it's moving through the first house, you're undergoing lots of personality changes or identity shifts, growing as a person. Uh, that's a very intense transit for many folks. So we'll definitely focus on stuff like that. A major change in life as well can be where the South Node is moving, which is directly opposite the North Node. That can indicate where things are where you're actually losing things. You know, I like to say, I like to say this with a grain of salt. Astrology, I don't like to use it to predict a loss in life, but it can show areas of life that are not becoming as important or becoming like less important. So, yeah, like let's say South Node is moving through um the fourth house, perhaps the the person is going to sell their home and move uh something along these lines. And and that's how I use transits as an overall view on uh on the themes of their life during that time.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

It's in a way like um like signposts. It's it's it's like the weather. It's it's in the sense that you can never 100% predict it, but you could say, hey, there's a storm coming, or no, it's gonna be a very sunny day, or if you're going to have an outdoor wedding, then Saturday is a great day to do it. You know, I'm simplifying it's with this analogy. It's it's a lot more intricate and complex and involved than that. But why not? You know, it it's so specific to each person. It gave me a sense of perspective, it validated so much. Uh, you're very good at what you do. I highly recommend you listening to get check out your page and get a reading from Kat. Even if you have questions, even if you're just leading from curiosity, check it out. I'll I'll send the link. Right now, you said that they can book through. I I won't send the link, I will post the link in the show notes. Right now you said that they can book online at Etsy, which I think you have your your direct link, which is very convenient because you can do it from anywhere in the world. Speaking of, you're in Australia right now, but you work with clients from all over the world.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Yes, yeah, I do. And I find mainly my clients are from the US. Um, I don't know why that is, but I guess it's just like a big country, they're on Etsy a lot.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

I don't know, but they're mainly from the US. You know, there's so much that you could take away, could predict when maybe a challenge is coming up. And if you were given a heads up that something may be shifting, then it doesn't catch you as off guard or as by surprise. And we have more time to prepare emotionally or physically, or depending on the circumstance, right? The world of astrology is fascinating. Humans have been looking to the stars since the very beginning. Even in the Bible, they follow the North Star and through history with farming, like how do you know about the seasons? How do you know when it's a good time to harvest, etc., etc.? So we as human beings have always been looking at the stars for answers. And astrology has existed for more than 5,000 years, from what I understand, correct? Yep, that's very correct. It's a very, very old practice. Yep. Thank you for that. For sharing all of this, for sharing your story, for sharing how you've evolved, how your beliefs have evolved, how your grief has evolved, uh, how your practice has evolved. And if you ever want to consult her, Kat is wonderful and she is very good at what she does. I want to open up the floor for you to say anything that we may have missed, and we can take it back to even your dad or the religious aspect or astrology or anything else that you want to talk about before we close out.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Yeah, I I think I just want to end off and say to anyone listening that I was very nervous about filming this podcast. And I I didn't, I was so nervous about sharing my story, but I realized that there could be someone out there that is dealing with some someone with addiction or someone who has an estranged relationship with a person they lost, or any any number of similarities between my story. And I just want to say that your feelings are valid, your story is valid, any pain is valid, and any sadness is valid. So that's why I wanted to share. It's a sensitive place, but I I feel very honored to be able to share my story, and I want everyone to feel like they are comforted during their own loss or their own issues with any sort of estranged people in their life. So I hope that if that's you, that you are doing well and take care of yourself, and uh it's never your fault.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

What a beautiful message, and I thank you so much. I know that it's not easy to share our stories, especially so publicly. I firmly believe that in sharing our stories, we help each other heal, we help guide each other, and we help people move forward in their own situations. Things are not as perfect as we see them on social media. Life is very real, pain is real, joy is real, and only in sharing these stories do we move forward together. I am so grateful and honored cat that you shared it today. I also honor your father Arthur, your relationship, because nothing's perfect in life. So thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. My last question to you before we close out is what would Cat today say to Cat, let's say 13-year-old cat.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

You are not even going to know the person you'll be when you're 22. Like you have so many years ahead of you to process everything. There is no absolutely no reason you need to carry such a heavy burden on your shoulders at all. Not one reason. This is your fault, and you're gonna be so okay. You're gonna be so healed, and you'll be so, so happy. Thank you so much, Kat. Thank you so much, Nina, for having me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

That's it for today's episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at Grief and Light. Or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember you are not alone.