GRIEF AND LIGHT

Why Everyone Over 18 Needs a Will: End-of-Life Planning with Death Doula Marni Blank

• Nina Rodriguez • Season 4 • Episode 78

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What if preparing for death could actually help you live more fully?

In this powerful episode, Nina Rodriguez speaks with Marni Blank, certified end-of-life doula and founder of Begin With The End, about why planning for death is one of the most compassionate acts we can offer, both to ourselves and those we love.

***Click here to watch on YouTube***

This conversation weaves together the legal logistics of wills, advance directives, and digital assets with the emotional and spiritual tools needed to live with more intention and prepare with less fear. Marni also shares her deeply personal journey into this work, sparked by her mother’s car accident, a moment that exposed the overwhelming reality of end-of-life care when you're unprepared.

*** Plan Well Organizer: Download Here ***

Whether you're grieving, caregiving, or simply ready to get your affairs in order, this episode offers clarity, comfort, and a gentle push toward meaningful, compassionate action.

Topics We Explore:

  • How to start honest, heart-centered conversations about death
  • Why everyone over 18 needs a will and advance directive
  • How to protect and pass on your digital legacy
  • The biggest myths about grief, and what it actually looks like
  • What a death doula does and how they support families
  • How to shape a legacy rooted in values, not just valuables
  • Why compassion and curiosity are essential in grief support
  • How emotional presence and practical planning can coexist

Key Takeaways:

  • Preparing for death is a profound act of love
  • Grief is nonlinear and deeply individual
  • Legal and digital planning is essential at any age
  • Legacy lives on through stories, values, and human connection
  • You don’t have to navigate end-of-life or grief alone
  • Talking about death early can ease suffering later
  • It’s possible to be both prepared and present during loss

Whether you’re facing loss, supporting someone in grief, or simply want to live with more intention, this episode will give you language, tools, and hope.

Grief Support Resources for the Road:

  1. Grief Tending Toolkit
  2. Access our online community

Guest: Marni Blank, Esq

Hosted by: Nina Rodriguez

Take action today:

✅ Create or update your will
✅ Have a conversation about end-of-life wishes with someone you love
✅ Organize one part of your digital life
✅ Share this episode with someone who needs it


Subscribe for more conversations that explore grief, healing, and what it means to be human.

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Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers

Some of us just don't know where to begin when we think about death or feeling prepared. A lot of people, not that they don't want to think about it, but they just don't know where to start. And so it really is thinking with the end in mind, you know, where do I want to be? What does a good death look like? That's going to be different for everyone. And really what I think about when I think about the end.

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. Could preparing for death be one of the most loving things we do for ourselves and those we leave behind? Today, I am joined by Marnie Blank, founder of Begin with the End, a heart-let business

helping individuals and families face one of life's most avoided truths, and that is that it ends. Marnie is a trained end-of-life doula, a former lawyer, a mediator, and a deeply compassionate guide. She helps people not only plan for death, but live with greater intention because of it. Whether you're preparing essential documents, navigating family dynamics, or grieving a recent loss, Marnie's work reminds us that tending to the emotional

and practical sides of death is one of the most loving things we can do. Marnie, welcome to the Grief and Light podcast.

Thank you so much for having me, Nina.

It's an absolute honor. And I'm so curious because this work is not something that a lot of people naturally fall into. There's usually something that happens in our lives. How did you end up as a death doula? What is a death doula? And any experience that shifted your work as an attorney into this more death related side of work.

Definitely. So it's exactly what we said. A lot of people get into this because something has happened to them or happened to someone that they know. And for me, I had shifted out of the law already and I had a business with my sister. Unrelated, I was using my law degree, but in a very roundabout way as director of operations for this business. And we were at a work event in 2018 and got a call from a hospital in Massachusetts. I'm based in New York.

that my mom had been in a freak car accident. And the first things that came into my brain other than, she okay? Is, my gosh, I have a lot of her important paperwork sitting on my desk that I was supposed to get signed and notarized. I'm an attorney. I am smart. I'm organized. I know how important these things are. And there had been a mental block around dealing with paperwork that had to do with her death. And so I had procrastinated as many of us do.

It was a really stressful situation in having to navigate getting all that paperwork done, getting to the hospital in Massachusetts and figuring out what it is I was supposed to do. My mom ended up being okay, but in the months of getting her into a rehabilitation center, dealing with her pets, dealing with her life in general while having a small business of my own was incredibly stressful. My parents divorced when I was 31. It really had never even occurred

occurred to me that I would be the one, my sister and I, to have to deal with both of them. Like it was always going to be one parent taking care of the other. It just hadn't occurred to me that it would be on me at that point. And it was a real awakening. The other thing that I realized when my mom was at the hospital was thankfully she was lucid enough to help us get into her important documents, you know, her email, her insurance information.

all the things I needed to help her in that moment. But had she been incapacitated or had she died in that moment, the level of stress and overwhelm that would have fallen on us would have been tenfold of only being in that moment of grief as well. And so it really got me thinking about the conversations that we hadn't had in our family that we should have been having and that real gap. And you better believe that we have all of these conversations now.

But it was a real awakening. I'm in my early 40s. I'm in the sandwich generation in that all of my friends, everyone is dealing with either young children and aging parents or just dealing with aging parents.

People are going through health emergencies. Parents are dying, friends are dying. This just is just happening all around. And so I really wanted to educate myself on death, dying, grief, what it meant within my own family and what it was gonna be around me just living in this age. So I ended up going to Deaf Duel training in 2020, really to get more of a sense of what it all meant and how I could sort of fit into this process.

And a death doula or an end of life doula, I use them interchangeably, is a non-medical professional who helps educate around death, dying grief, and really helps families and individuals with the emotional aspects, the practical aspects, and sometimes the spiritual aspects around these issues. And so a lot of what I do is help people think about end of life in advance. And like you said, how can we live a freer life now?

and taking advantage of the time that we have, knowing that at some point, and most of us don't know when that will be, it will end. Also thinking about the practical aspects, getting organized digitally, making sure that you have advanced directives and legal documents prepared, having these important conversations within families about roles and responsibilities. It's so important to be having these conversations within our friend groups, within our families, because it affects everyone. And so that's sort of how I got started.

Thank you for that. I'm glad your mom is OK, first of all. Thank you. And within the larger scope of things, I'm glad she's OK. And that must have been such a wake-up call and such a shock to the system because we tend to be responsible with our documentation and everything. But when that moment strikes, it's almost like we go blank. It's too personal. It's too real. It's too shocking. And so having things in place beforehand

Yes.

can be so helpful. But before we get to that, you touched on the digital side of things. And I do want to open up that part of the conversation because, for example, when my brother passed, we never got access to his phone. We have emailed to any of his digital assets or documents or anything like that. And that is something that I learned after the fact that had...

he had some sort of legal document in place, we would have had access to all of this information. So please touch on that, the importance of having somebody assigned to be able to handle your digital information afterwards, your digital assets, and also what is an advanced directive and how can that help in the process.

Yeah, I'm so sorry that you didn't have access to those. It can be so stressful when you don't. Like you said, I mean, we live in a digital age where many people in the past just had their folder of important documents and had all of those account numbers neatly filed. And some definitely don't also have anything neatly.

Now everything lives on the internet. And so it is so important to have mechanisms set up so that when something happens or if something happens, that people that you trust are able to access those files in a legal way. So like you are touching on now, many wills when you get them has a provision that the executor that is allowed to access your digital life and assets.

That's not a given if it's not in your will. And so people who may have had a will 20 years ago, that probably wasn't the standard language. And so it's always important if you have documents from a while ago to check and see, are my digital life and assets covered legally that someone can access them? But there are...

How often should somebody update their will, for example?

So I would advise just looking over your important information every two to three years. In two to three years, many things could change. You could have had a child, you could have bought a piece of real estate. Two to three years, things may have changed in your life. would say earlier than that, it's probably more of the status quo. That doesn't mean you need to update or change, but it's a good way to think, okay, what other life milestones were going on that maybe need to be covered?

But you sort of covered the three big things that everyone should be thinking about in terms of who has the password or the access to your cell phone, your computer, and your email account. So big companies, if you do not have that password or that information, you will never be getting that. That is not something that they will give you. And there's so much information on those things, both

Practical logistical in terms of if you're getting your utility bills sent to your email You might not know those recurring subscriptions or those utilities your bank statements your investment statements things like that your mortgage Statements all of those things a lot of those things live online But it's also the emotional things all of those photos all those videos There's so much that lives on the internet that if you don't have access you could

lose that. And that's part of someone that you love's legacy. And so it's really those three things. You know, I have a digital password manager. I also have a digital vault where I keep all of that important information. And they have emergency contacts on them or legacy contacts, some are called, where if something were to happen to me, that person has legal access to have a hold of those things. The other things you can do with your

digital life, if you have an iPhone, there's something easily set up within your settings that can add a legacy contact. And that is you can do it in under five minutes and it says, hey, if something were to happen to me, this person has access to it. So that's one way. And on Google, there's something called an inactive account manager. Again, very easy to set up and also give someone that access if...

something happens to you, then you know that those will be given to the right trusted people. I know that, you know, the older generation may not have a lot of these things and I highly suggest if you know you have a parent who needs help sitting down with them. My father did a really funny thing. He sent in the mail a list of his usernames to me and he sent handwritten.

usernames to me and he sent to my sister in the mail all of his passwords, but with like little X's crossed out, you know, they were sort of in code. It was so sweet. It was such a nice gesture. He was trying to do the right thing by giving us those things in a safe, secure way. You know, obviously there are better ways of doing it. And we have since sat down and talked about setting them up with a digital password manager. So as things change, it changes with them, but that is

an example of someone trying to do something, but there might be a better way.

such important points and I have a selfie with my brother that we took days before he passed and I would do anything to get my human on a sentimental level. Yeah. And also from a legal standpoint to having access to really important information, to not delaying processes. You named the phone, you named the email accounts. This is also social media. You lose access to the social media accounts, bank accounts. It's all the things. And so we're talking about the digital here.

And also the physical assets. used to work in real estate and I've dealt with people who have navigated their early passing of their parents, for example, in this case. And they had a trust and a will in place with very clear directives. And because of that, they were able to avoid probate.

The process was seamless. It was very crystal clear. There was a dispute. They already had a clause in place for disputes. So it was just chef's kiss, beautiful in the sense of thanks to that document, the amount of suffering, heartache, paperwork, money was minimized. And the children that were left to deal with this could focus on their grief and on honoring their father, for example. So how does somebody put instructions in for both their digital

and their physical assets. What are some of the best tools for this? Because I know this is like a whole field in and of itself, but maybe some.

No, I mean, and to your point, it is such a gift to give clear instruction, both about your wishes in terms of your healthcare and what's important to you at the end. And giving those instructions really relieves the children or whoever is caring for the person who is up close to the end. It takes the pressure off of them and it gives that gift of, is what I want and please follow it. And then all you have to do is follow the wishes instead of having that decision fatigue or not.

knowing what it is that is going to honor that person in the way that you want to. It takes some of the emotion out of it because you understand what someone wants. But practically also, like you said, it saves so much energy. It saves, honestly, family dynamics. Like what you're saying, there could be otherwise disputes between adult children or between other family members or friends of what is best or what were the wishes. And this takes it out of it. And that

in itself as a godsend. To be able to just be in grief is so important. And so you were talking about before advanced directives. This is a way in which to share your healthcare wishes with the person who is going to be caring for your loved ones. And when I say family, I just want to say that.

That could mean chosen family. can mean your friends. It can be other people. It doesn't necessarily have to be your biological family. But what a healthcare directive is, so let's say a healthcare proxy, that allows someone to say, hey, if something were to happen to me and I need someone to make medical decisions for me if I'm unable to, it gives someone a legal right to make those choices. And by doing that, you're also saving other people from.

saying, I think that this is best and I think this is best. It's giving one person the right and the legal ability to say, no, this is what this person wants. A living will is something that typically goes alongside of the healthcare proxy. It's giving direction to your healthcare proxy, the person who is able to make medical decisions for you if you're unable, and it's saying, hey, this is what's important to me. This is what I want. So this can include

whether you want life sustaining treatment at the end, whether you want quality of life versus quantity of life, whether you want to be fully medicated at the end, where you want pain management to be more important than lucidity, because sometimes that's the trade off. If you have all of the comfort care, you might not be as awake, but some people want that over the other. So it's sort of laying out what is important to you so that you are person that you're choosing to help.

has the direction and they don't have to figure it out for themselves. There's also something called a power of attorney, which is basically the same thing, but for your financial. So if you're unable, for whatever reason, if you're uncompacitated, but something's going on where you need someone to step in and help financially. So paying your rent or the mortgage, or if you were in the middle of a deal or running a business, that they could step in and do that legally for you. And so you're naming someone who you trust who can do that.

And these are things that are valid while you're still alive. And so if you, for some reason, don't feel like you need a will at this point, these other two things, the power of attorney and the healthcare proxy, are really important for everyone over the age of 18 to have in place. Because if something happens, and sometimes unexpected things happen, it's protecting you now. And that's sort of the same thing with having this legacy contact or emergency contacts on your email and your phone.

These are ways in which you're helping someone help you if you need that help. Those are really the basic ways in which you can be giving a gift to other people by making it easier and sort of like help me help you vibes.

Yes. So important that you touched on the digital, the advanced directive, which is the tangible assets. So one thing I hear is, wills are for people who have a lot of assets and they just need to manage all these houses. And I don't have a ton of houses. I just have a few things and it's not important because my people know exactly what to do. I wish it were that simple. Wills are instructions that you leave behind in case of emergency. However,

Sometimes people create a will and they stop there and they don't do anything else and they don't look into trusts or even advance directives or any of these other legal documents. So what type of conversations should somebody be having to help them put all of these systems in place? And what would you say to somebody that in the example that I just mentioned that they say, no, that's not for me. That's for somebody who has a lot of property. I only have a few things.

Yeah, I mean, I think you're exactly right that everyone over the age of 18 needs a will. But certainly once you're, you know, in a career that you're starting to make more money, if you do have property, certainly if you have children, it is so important to have safeguards in place. A lot of people have informal conversations saying, if something were to happen to me, would you take care of my children? But that is not a legal document. That does not hold up. You need guardianship.

paperwork in your will in place to make sure that your wishes are followed for your most important, you know, property asset, which is your children. Or for some people, it will be your pet, you know, making sure that what happens to your pet if something were to happen. But honestly, you do not need a ton of money. It's so relative, like what people feel is wealthy. But honestly, if you have important

memorabilia in your apartment. It's really anything in your life. Like it also has to do with your social media. So let's say that you are an influencer and you might not have a ton of real estate, but you have a website and you have a hundred thousand followers or whatever, 30,000. These are all things that are assets and need to be decided what happens to those things. So it really gives people the direction of, okay, I would like

ex-person to be managing this or taking over for me. It's really all about legacy. You you could have a beautiful clothing collection of things that you love. Who do you want those to go to or jewelry that belonged to your grandmother? It has personal value to you. So it's really giving people direction of what to do with your, with your things. And that does not mean that you need to own a house. could just be a beautiful painting in your apartment that you love. And in terms of trust versus will,

Like you said, it really depends on the individual circumstance of what you need and when. For many people, a trust makes more sense because it's an easier process after someone dies to manage someone's property or assets. It's not for everyone. It really depends. But for many people, it's an easier process. I am in New York, and COVID really backed up the court system.

You could be in probate, is, you know, when someone dies, their will has to be confirmed by the court to say, hey, yes, this is valid. And in New York, because of COVID, you know, this process could take a year or two years now because there's such a backlog. And so someone could be waiting and needing the money from the estate or just you're stuck in the state of grief and logistics that you can't get out of. can't move forward because of

a backlog in the court. it's also something to think about just in terms of practicality afterwards that trust may be more expensive to set up originally, but it could be easier after to handle.

Absolutely. And for example, I'm in the state of Florida and probates can last years. What is more painful than already having to grieve and be dealing with these expensive drawn out stressful events when that preventative consideration could have saved such a heartache for yourself or your family, for everybody who's left behind.

It's something that you work with with an attorney and they help you put these things in place. So it's not like you have to know everything. And also this information is readily available. So a lot of people are intimidated by just even the thought of death and dying. But the more conversations I have, the more people say, I wish I had done this. I wish I had even just had a conversation, start the baby steps, have the conversations. When my brother passed, he was 32. We had never spoken about, do you want to be buried or cremated? How do you want to go?

We had no idea. And so we just had to trust that our decisions were good enough, but it's daunting. How much better would it have been if we just spoke about it? And you better believe that after that passing, we went person by person. What do you want? How do you want to go? How do you want to be honored? And advanced directives are in place now because of that, because we said it's scary to approach it initially, but it's worse or more painful, I would argue, from personal experience.

to not know in the moment and have to make these decisions not knowing if you're honoring the person in the right way or in the way they would have wanted. And that's something to...

true and it often takes that crisis or that shock in order to be like, I didn't realize that I was supposed to be having these conversations and we really need to. And I do want to touch that it's very normal that people shy away from this or they know that it's important to get these things in place, but they procrastinate because it's not something that anyone wants to think about or talk about. It's thinking about a future without someone that you love or that you no longer exist. There's so much that comes around.

this idea. And so it makes total sense to put it off. And a lot of people have this superstition that if you talk about it, that it's more likely to happen. And I promise you that's not the case.

I'm laughing because I hear that all the time. It's like, you're going to attract it. That's not how it works.

No, it's not how it works. it really is such a gift to be talking about it. And when you talk about it, it might feel uncomfortable at first. It might feel like a little weird. when you talk about it more, when it starts just being part of the conversation, when you start to take the emotion out of it, it's so much easier. And like you, my family,

has had so many more conversations. mean, there's been more illness in my family. We've had to have these conversations, really hard conversations, but it's now easier to address them without all of the baggage because we all come into it knowing that this is a loving conversation. This is a conversation built on wanting the best for each other and wanting to honor each other and people's legacies. I promise it gets easier. And if you're starting to have this conversation with a parent or someone,

and it doesn't go well the first time, it might not. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't continue to try to have them. The more you try, the more it get easier.

Absolutely. And what myths about deaths and dying or grief do you wish people would unlearn in the context of a grief averse grief illiterate society? What have you learned personally and professionally about death, dying and grief that you wish people would understand better or unlearn?

It's a great question. There's so many, think this idea of if you talk about it, that it's more likely to happen is certainly a myth that I hope we dispel. Something that I see a lot is that once the cast rolls go away, once the initial memorials happen, it's really hard.

to remember that someone hasn't just stopped grieving, that life doesn't just start up again for that person, and that even just little check-ins, a lot of people shy away from checking in on someone who's grieving because they feel uncomfortable. They don't want to make the other person feel uncomfortable. But I think that's a real myth, and I think that it's something that everyone should be just aware of, that grief has no timeline. It just shifts.

in that even those little check-ins, even just a text saying, I was thinking about you today, or I was thinking about X person, naming a person. I think a lot of people have this myth that they don't wanna say that person's name or ask about memories of that person because they don't wanna make someone else feel sad or uncomfortable. But in fact, for many people, having the space, being able to share their feelings or their experiences with the person who has passed gives more love and space.

for them to be vulnerable in a way that maybe they don't feel comfortable to otherwise if everyone sort of shies away from it. So I think that's a big one. How do you feel about that one?

Absolutely. And these conversations are already present to the person experiencing this. It also came to mind people who are experiencing an illness that could potentially be terminal, like, you know, cancer diagnosis or advanced illness. A lot of people avoid the conversation because they don't want to make them think about that. That person's already thinking about these things. They probably thought about their pedal passing many times and it's something that's very front and center. So as a death doula,

how would you recommend somebody approach some of these conversations perhaps with a loved one? How do you balance these conversations when they're being confronted either as somebody witnessing it or as somebody experiencing it firsthand?

really depends on family dynamics because there could be a lot of mixed emotions with someone who maybe you haven't had the greatest relationship with, but there is a grief of the relationship that maybe you wanted that you didn't have or that you want to fix or that there are things unsaid. And so it's very common for people to not know how to approach these conversations or even if there is so much love and there are so much like understanding, it can still be hard. And I think it's individual for everyone, but they're not.

a different person necessarily than they were when they were healthy. And so like, how did you approach them when they didn't have this diagnosis? Like maybe that's the way in which you continue the conversation. I think it's about being curious, ask questions, ask them how they feel. Don't necessarily assume how they're feeling about something. A lot of people who are faced with a diagnosis, there could be a lot of anger, there could be resentment, there could be sadness, there could be fear, but you don't know what's happening. And I'm sure that also shifts based on.

on the day, on the hour. And so it's asking, what is this like for you? Or sometimes it's, you know, we don't know how best people can be supported and finding out, you know, in relationships, we talk about love languages, like how do you give and receive love? And it's sort of the same in this, like some people showing up with a pizza will be a love language to that person.

And some people, it will be sending a favorite song over text. What is the way in which you can connect with the person as you've always done, but trying to figure out how they want to receive that love or feeling supported.

I love that you brought up that point. So often we make the unintentional mistake of assuming that what we would want is what the other person finds helpful. And there is a huge disconnect there because what is actually helpful to somebody may be completely different. So leading with that curiosity that you mentioned is so, so key. It's asking the questions when somebody says, I don't know what to say, ask. Don't say anything. Just create the room for the conversation and oftentimes just open the door.

for the other person to lead with what feels very present to them. So I love that you brought that up. And you touched earlier on the fact that the work of the death doula also includes spirituality. So what is the role in your experience of spirituality in this process?

It's very different for everyone. Again, I think it's about being curious. Just because someone was Catholic during their everyday life, that might not be something that is important to them at the very end. Same with Judaism. We're a cultural Jew versus more of a secular or very religious. So it's being curious. It's asking someone, is religion important to you right now? Is there a way in which I can support you in exploring that if it's not something that has been part of your life, but you're

you're feeling more called to be exploring right now and asking questions. Sometimes if someone wants a religious celebrant or figure to come in, I will help facilitate that if that's something that is important for them to talk to someone more deeply about. But it really is asking, you know, what traditions did you grow up with?

or rituals or things that really resonated with you that maybe we can bring into right now or, you know, after people, you know, when I'm talking to them, we're talking about, you know, at the memorial or at the funeral, what has resonated with you that would be meaningful to have both for the people that you love that might be grieving and also that is important for you. And so I've worked with many religions and it's really just personal to the

person. A lot of people find religion at the end and some people find spirituality and not a specific religion. And some people, that doesn't comfort them. So it's what brings the most comfort. My grandmother passed away about a month ago and she was not really religious in her everyday life. But at the end, she was seeing my grandfather or seeing other loved ones in the room.

Instead of, you know, it didn't make her uncomfortable. It didn't make her scared. I asked her when she shared that, you know, are you, are you feeling okay? Yes. You know, what are, what are they doing? Being curious, asking questions, not making it weird or uncomfortable, just, just asking what, what's going on for that person. So it really is, yeah, individual for everyone, but just being respectful and also giving them space to explore if that's something that they want.

Yes, and putting our own assumptions out of the way can be very helpful as well because we have our views. Sometimes family members have different views. Actually, let me ask you about that. Have you ever encountered a situation where the patient was very strong about believing one thing right at the end and it conflicted with family values? Have you encountered that?

You know, for the most part, the families that I've worked with have gotten on the same page. Certainly there have been family dynamics or not being on the same page as someone within the other family members. From what I have witnessed with the person who is dying, that love has trumped individual wishes in terms of, you know, sometimes people will be surprised at someone choosing a cremation over a burial, especially if there was a religious aspect to why.

you know, a certain thing was typically done a certain way. But there has been in my experience a respect of the person's desires. That's not always the case. I've certainly heard of there being disputes. It just hasn't happened with the people that I've worked with. But, you know, a lot of the times I'm working with people in advance where there's no issues going on, where, you know, parents and adult children are just

wanting to have a facilitated conversations to talk about wishes and values and religion and these sort of things in advance so that in a moment at the very end, there isn't a, well, why are you choosing this? Why are you choosing that? Well, let's have that conversation. Let's just have it while everyone is healthy-ish and able to talk about why it is that they're choosing what they're choosing so that there's no questions or frustration at the end.

Definitely. And what have you found in your experience that people are the least prepared for? So what is a fun and thing that if you could wave a magic wand and say, gosh, I wish everybody were prepared for this one thing that I keep seeing over and over and over again, what would that be?

So a lot of what I do is after someone has passed, I help with the paperwork and logistics that fall on the exec here or the family. People aren't getting organized in advance. And the thing that I have found is that it causes so much stress and anxiety and overwhelm onto the grieving family when they don't have a full picture of what that person's life looked like. Even within marriages or partnerships, there are sometimes, you know,

roles and responsibilities that each person has. So maybe one person has dealt with all the utility bills, all the subscriptions, the paying of the mortgage, the finances, and the other person is more run the household. And if they are not shared information in advance and they have no idea what they're working with, it's an utter shock and surprise at the end of like, I don't know how to run the life that I've been living. And so

to the extent that you can both share that information in advance, but also just for every individual person, whether you're partnered or not, is just having a document or an organizational way, whatever works for you, whether it's an Excel spreadsheet, whether it's physical paperwork, whether it's a digital of all, where you're keeping this information so that your loved ones are not left scrambling on like a treasure hunt of figuring out what it is. Like there are so many times where there's lost life insurance policies because

people don't know where they are or a safe deposit box that no one knows where the key is, things like that. It just adds this extra layer. I actually created an organizer that prompts you so that you can write in all of your information because there's so much information in our lives that live in our brains that only we know. So how can you make sure that information is in a safe, secure space so that if something were to happen, it's not a total mystery to the people who are going to be having to deal with it after.

That sounds very helpful to have that tool. Where can people find this organizer?

It's on my website. I can send you a link. It's a digital one now.

helpful and we could add it to the show notes so if you're watching or listening and are interested in accessing that you could look in the show notes and go there. And you've touched on different aspects of how you help different people navigate this end of life planning and all the paperwork but maybe fill in the full capacity of how you support somebody and how they could work with you where they could find your information and what services you offer.

Yeah, absolutely. So I work with people of all ages, but many people in the sandwich generation and solo agers getting your estate planning in order basically, like making sure that you have the documents you need, making sure that you're thinking through.

The decisions that are important to me making, you many people go to an attorney, they get the questionnaire, and then it sits on their desk for a year or two because there's one question that they get stuck on, like who will take care of the dog or who will be guardianship of my children or all of these different things. So having accountability is really important. And a lot of what I do is help facilitate these conversations between parents and adult children really to get on the same page about what's going on and also getting organized digitally is a big thing.

And thinking about end of life wishes, those things, there's so many options out there now. There's green burial options. There's all different kinds of things that people don't know exist. And so it's just having someone to kind of help guide and support the process, especially for, yeah, this generation who is dealing with aging parents and growing children. I then have a death's wheel of practice, which focuses on

be actively dying. And that doesn't mean someone in the last few weeks, I could be working with someone with an illness that we have a relationship for a year. And making sure that they feel supported emotionally, having someone to talk to, making sure the families feel supported. It's really both sides. And for many, I'm helping with legacy projects that can look like capturing someone's life history on audio or video or

creating a recipe book of family recipes or my sister is an incredible quilter. And so for some clients, a client had a hundred of her mother's silk scarves and she wanted to make them into a legacy quilt. And so my sister made this stunning quilt out of it. So there's all different kinds of ways to think about how you want to be remembered. A lot of people think about legacy as just money, but it really isn't. It's your values, your wishes. And I help people write letters to their families and loved ones that they want distributed after they.

they die. And then the last thing is that when someone dies, like I said, there's a ton of paperwork and logistics that fall on families. Things that you don't think about like contacting all the credit agencies to freeze your credit so that there's no fraud, closing down someone's driver's license, moving money to an estate account. There's just lots of little tasks. And the last thing that someone in grief wants to do is sit on the phone with a bank and have to share over and over that your loved one has died. Like that's

That's traumatic. That is continuing this process. And so how can you give people space to grieve and not have to deal with everything or just have a loving guide who's helping them through it? So that's sort of a broad strokes of how I work with people.

and where can people find this information?

So my website is beginwiththeend.co or I'm always happy to answer emails. My email is marnie m-a-r-n as in Nancy I at beginwiththeend.co and I always offer free 20 minute conversations if people just want to learn more or have a specific question that they want to ask.

Thank you. And of course, those will be linked in the show notes. So much of working with grievers is tending the pain and adjusting the suffering. The pain is that fixed element of we lost our person. This is the reality we're facing. There's a diagnosis. My person's in hospice, let's say, right? The suffering is the element that's more dynamic that we can adapt and...

change, so the part that is under our control. And this doesn't have to be a post thing necessarily. So a lot of grievers have to do more work after a person's past or after this event has taken place. And that is so incredibly overwhelming. So I invite listeners and anybody watching to reconsider, to reframe how we adjust the suffering because at the end of the day, we're human, we're living, death is one thing we have guaranteed for every single one of us. So

The more we open up ourselves to having these conversations beforehand, the more we could start easing our way into it. And I have met people who actually say, you know what, my person had a beautiful passing, their death was beautiful. And what a gift to be able to say that. And it's not any less painful, the loss is painful, but the process doesn't have to be this horrible, tragic, overwhelming thing unnecessarily so.

So I invite you to think of it as a normal part of planning that we want to incorporate into our lives so that when the moment arise for any one of us, whenever that is, it's already set in place and you can give the gift of peace of mind to your loved ones and honestly to yourself as well. So this is all very, very helpful. And let me ask you, what is something that your clients have taught you about life and death?

I have a big picture question. Like what is something you've learned from your clients about life and death?

I had a client, a beautiful soul who had a terrible neurological disease that caused so much pain for him. And through the pain, he was able to continue to create. He wrote a new play. He used to be a dancer, but we made sure that he had someone to come in to help him dance even with his arms. Like he lived a full life even in the hardest of times.

I helped him write his eulogy. He wanted his words spoken. And I still get goosebumps about how much he touched people and how much they loved him and how his community showed up for him in that way. he's passed 10 months ago and I'm still in contact with his friends. We still get together. There's so much life to live even if you were in something that's incredibly hard and through his passing he has created.

or continues to create connections through his creativity and through his artistic expression and through just like how he showed up for people and how people showed up for him.

What a beautiful story. And I love that you said his life still creates this ripple effect of love and has an impact even after he's physically gone. That's speaking of legacy, I just got chills. What a beautiful gift to leave behind. And what advice would you give to somebody who is perhaps interested in becoming a death doula from your experience?

I highly recommend it. If you're an empath, if you're someone who this feels called to, people come into it through all different kinds of professions. Not as many people come into it from the legal side. A lot of people come in through social work or therapists or within the nursing profession. But anyone who feels called to it, there have been doulas through the ages. We used to die at home and our families and our loved ones helped usher that out.

Even if you haven't gotten the training, many of us have experienced or been with someone in their last stages. And if that's something that has felt warming to you, there are wonderful one-off programs that you can just explore if this is something that's interesting to you. And then there are longer four months, six months courses where you can really dive in deep. then you can even start by volunteering with hospice. That's a wonderful way to get involved and to...

think if it's something that's interesting to you, but it's a beautiful profession and something that this world needs more of.

Yeah. The perhaps counterintuitive part about talking so much about death and helping people through death, it's that it's so life-affirming. What's your take on what death has taught you about life?

to really not take it for granted and to, for me, it's about experiences with people that I love. I just got back from a trip with my mother and my sister to Italy where we did a week of cooking together. It's about creating memory. It's about not taking life for granted. And if I have, let's say, 40 summers left, how am I gonna love this summer and do the things that I wanna do this summer and not wait?

And that doesn't mean you have to spend all your money or do all the trips. Like it's about creating intentional experiences with people that you love. And for me, that's what it's all about. It's not about the material things. It's the experiences and the memories.

great, and that trip was amazing and that's what we take with us at the end of the day. So how special for your family and for you as well. And I love the name of your company, Begin with the End. What does that mean to you in your own words?

You know, a lot of us just don't know where to begin when we think about death or feeling prepared. A lot of people, not that they don't want to think about it, but they just don't know where to start. And so it really is thinking with the end in mind. Like when I think about anything, you know, where do I want to be? Like for me, what does a good death look like? That's going to be different for everyone. And so if I want that, if I want to be at the end surrounded by...

friends and loved ones with the sound of the ocean. How can I live my life or think about how can I get to that space? And so really thinking about the future and how I'm living my life now to get to where I want to be. And that's really what I think about when I think about the end.

I love that. And it could be a beautiful thing we create while alive. And that is a gift and it's very powerful in and of itself. So thank you for that. Is there something that you would like to include that we maybe haven't touched on or is there anything you want to leave our audience with? The floor is yours.

You know, I live in a city. I see people all day and sometimes you see people are not having their best day or people are showing up in a way that you might be like, what's happening with that person there? And I invite people to think that, you know, a lot of people are suffering or grieving and it's not seen. Everyone is walking around with something that's going on with them that we might not understand and that they're showing up the way they are because...

of grief or loss or something that is going on in their lives. And just showing up with as much passion and empathy, holding your own space and not necessarily getting involved, but understanding that there are a lot of people walking around not having their best day and taking that into account.

Absolutely. And final question, what would Marnie today say to the version of Marnie that got the call that her mom had been in a car accident?

that there's support out there if you know where to look and that you don't have to do it alone. think that Marnie who got that call was incredibly overwhelmed because she had no idea what to do, but that it will get figured out and that you just need to ask for help and know that you don't have to do it all yourself.

Beautiful. Thank you so much, Marni. It has been an absolute honor. And if you are listening, I hope you got some takeaways and at least one actionable item to, let's say, just open up the conversation and take it from there. So thank you for being here. Thank you for being you.

Thank you.

Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at griefandlight. Or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember, you are not alone.


People on this episode

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Nina Rodriguez

Host
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Marni Blank, Esq.

Guest