Filmmaker Michael Flores: Grief and Healing in 'Dogs on the Sendero'

Whether you’re a griever, creative, or lover of independent film (and puppies!), this conversation is a moving exploration of how film can help us navigate trauma, honor legacy, and find our way back to light.

In this powerful episode of the Grief and Light podcast, acclaimed filmmaker and educator Michael Flores shares the deeply personal journey behind his award-winning feature film, Dogs on the Sendero. The film follows Sol, a grieving teacher who embarks on a transformative road trip with his dog, Rosie, after the devastating loss of his wife. Through their journey, the story explores grief, cultural identity, healing, and the quiet power of companionship.

***Click here to watch on YouTube***

Michael opens up about the emotional and creative process of making a film inspired by real-life experiences with gun violence in schools, the delicate balance of weaving humor and hope into stories of loss, and the role that pets, art, and cultural roots play in the healing process. He also discusses the challenges and serendipity of independent filmmaking during the pandemic, the importance of building a small but dedicated team, and how storytelling can foster empathy and human connection.

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2. Access our online community

Key Takeaways:

• Storytelling can help us navigate grief and find healing.
• Gun violence in schools leaves long-lasting emotional ripples.
• Independent filmmaking requires trust, resilience, and creativity.
• Cultural identity can anchor and guide healing journeys.
• Grief is universal and can be processed and expressed through art.
• Pets can provide comfort, grounding, and purpose in the aftermath of loss.
• Humor and grief can coexist, offering balance in emotional storytelling.
• The creative process is often shaped by personal experiences and cultural identity.
• Signs and serendipity often guide creative journeys and personal healing.
• Empathy and emotional connection are at the heart of impactful storytelling.

Guest: Michael Flores

• senderomovie.com
• IMDB
• @dogs_on_the_sendero

Hosted by: Nina Rodriguez

• Creator of Grief and Light, Grief Guide
• griefandlight.com
• @griefandlight
• Resting Grief Face on Substack

Subscribe for more conversations that explore grief, healing, and what it means to be human.

Chapters

• 0:00 Preview, Intro song & Content Warning
• 1:08 Meet Michael Flores
• 4:00 Inspiration Behind the Story
• 13:18 Capturing America's zeitgeist on film
• 16:42 The Role of Social Media and Character Development
• 20:26 The Impact of Pets on Grief
• 26:12 Building a Scrappy Team: Challenges and Creative Solutions
• 34:10 The Reality of Filmmaking
• 43:10 Finding Humor in Grief: Balancing Light and Dark
• 45:49 Cultural Identity: Embracing Diversity in Storytelling
• 49:19 The Evolution of Sendero: From Title to Theme
• 52:58 Nature as Healing: The Path to Recovery
• 59:41 Empathy and Connection Through Film

Transcript

hope that people see this film and really just take a second look at their own lives, their own paths. One of the bigger messages other than grief about this film is the idea of being empathetic. That we're all in this together. Not to isolate, not to be selfish, but you know, to work together more and think about others. And that's what I continue to try to do and I hope that everyone else does as well.

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. Before we begin today's episode, I want to offer a gentle content warning. This conversation includes discussions of gun violence and the unique ways it shows up in our schools, as well as the grief that follows a traumatic loss.

Please take care while listening and honor your own needs. If at any point you need to pause or step away, please do. Our intention is to hold these stories with care and respect.

Today's guest is Michael Flores, an acclaimed filmmaker, writer, and creative executive whose work spans award-winning short films, music videos, documentaries, and now his debut film. Michael's storytelling is known for his emotional depth, visually rich language, centering the lived experience of underrepresented voices. His latest film, Dogs on the Sendero,

Now streaming on major platforms follows Sol, a grieving teacher who sets out on a road trip that he and his late wife Gina had planned. He is accompanied only by his adorable dog Rosie. And what unfolds is a poetic meditation on love, loss, identity, and healing after loss. Michael's creative journey includes the New England Emmy nomination and a recent documentary feature at Cannes Film Festival.

He is also a dedicated educator, drawing from his rich work in the classroom to craft stories that are both intimate and expansive. His work bridges artistry and activism, memory and meaning, and you are in for a treat today with this conversation. Michael, welcome to the Grief in Life podcast.

You have a very impressive resume and that doesn't even come close to all of your accolades, but it captures the essence of your work, so thank you.

sure I like how you put the accent on sendero as well. A lot of fun pronunciations with that. My favorite so far has been senderoo.

Why do I imagine that being from like Australia sounds like kangaroo

Dad's on the senderoo.

That's awesome. Well, it's San Pedro. I had the opportunity to watch it. It's a beautiful, heartwarming film. The storyline was incredible.

Thank you. Thank you so much. That's praise from Caesar. I appreciate it.

And we're exactly a week from its debut in terms of, you know, going public on major platforms. Exactly a week from today, you're going to be seeing it, you know, out in the world. How are you feeling today?

it's so I'm excited. This is big. It's you know, it's quite an accomplishment for my team and I and You know, this is honestly the biggest project that I've been at the helmet and it's been an incredible journey Just this kind of seeing it unfold and now that we're kind of crossing the finish line with this it's I'm Overjoyed I'm over the moon. I got so many emotions that are just right at the surface

Amazing. Yeah. And speaking of the journey, you know, take us back to the beginning, that moment when the idea for Sindero first came to you. So what called you to tell the story? Why now? I know that the current title is an evolution from the original title. So take us through that journey. Where did this all begin?

I was inspired originally by my wife who is also a school teacher. She's an elementary school teacher. She has been for over 20 years now. And the school that she had been teaching at for her entire career was merging with another school in the neighboring town. And we got a lot of, you know, small towns here in upstate New York. And it was...

It was the right decision. It was the right choice to kind of merge these schools together, but it was just executed so poorly. And the one voice that everybody should have been listening to the faculty, the teachers, everybody was just kind of ignoring. And that kind of sparked an idea originally about maybe there's something here about, you know, a teacher going through some kind of life struggle. And I, you know, wrote kind of an opening.

a few scenes and I just let it marinate and that just kind of, you know, took a backseat for a number of years. And then it was in, oh gosh, it was 2020 during COVID that I actually went back to school to get my master's degree. And I decided I wanted to write another script and I didn't really want to write something that I was just going to potentially sell or shelf.

I really wanted to write something that I could potentially make. And so the first thing I did was I made a list of all the resources I had at my disposal, either for free or next to free. You know, I had a list of locations, a list of gear, of people. And again, this was kind of, the industry was really trying to bounce back from COVID, like virtually every industry, right? Was really trying to bounce back from COVID. And for the first time in my life,

I was in this position where I had time, money, and other people with time and money. And we, you know, add the ability to actually potentially do something together. And it was, I guess, later in that year of 2020, we decided to drive Hannah, the RV, that's my actual RV, my wife and I, and little Rosie, we went out to Lake George and, you know,

Suddenly everybody's a nature freak because they can't do anything indoors. Yeah, it was absurd. It was so many people there. It was not fun at all. It was just so crowded and so nerve wracking. Like we couldn't go anywhere because we were just like terrified. It was like Grand Central Station. I'm not exaggerating. There was so many people at Lake George and they closed down the lake, which we didn't even know. Just people walking around. You can't even get into the water.

was outdoors.

my goodness.

Anyhow.

I

It was was it was something but uh, you know, I I realized in doing that everywhere we went Hannah and Rosie have easily been the most interesting thing About my life for a very long time Nobody's stopping Michael Flores for an autograph or a photo or anything like that But they I can't walk five feet with Rosie without being stopped by somebody cooing over her

wanting to tether take a picture anything like that and had just

A quick pause here because for context for the audience, Rosie is the dog that is featured in this film and Hannah is the RV, the name of the RV that's featured in this film, which happened to be both of them are yours. So Rosie's yours and Hannah's yours. So the real stars of the show are Rosie and Hannah.

They really are. I'm third billing. got first and second. But I, know, Hannah's just as bad. Like I'll park her and I went to a music festival once. I came back to grab something out of the RV and there's a line of hipsters taking pictures with Hannah. Like they thought it was part of the festival. So I thought, OK, let's add these two things to the list because there's something here. And once I did that and

I started thinking, well, okay, RV, travel, got the dog and maybe we can go on some kind of journey or adventure here. But what is it? And I went back to that original script. And originally in that script, the lead was actually a female teacher. And I thought, okay, but I'm gonna do something that I can make on, you know, next to nothing. What can I do here? So I decided to make the lead character a male, just so that's one less actor.

I have to pay, And that's actually how I started my career was as an actor. So I feel very comfortable being able to, you know, step into that, that role. And everything just kind of came from that. All of a sudden, you know, these ideas just kind of started flourishing. My wife at that same school that she had merged from had actually been in several very scary lockdowns.

And one of them actually was, no, I forget what year it was. I want to say maybe 2013 or 2016 or something like that. There was a man who just kind of went nuts and was killing people. And it was right by her schools where he started. So they went into lockdown. It was a very, very scary thing. And he was going through town after town, focusing on, I think the

front of the damage he did. started in Illeen, New York, and he went to Herkimer, New York, and he was just walking into businesses and shooting people. Yeah, was nuts. And a lot of people died. they ended up, you know, police ended up cornering him in an abandoned nightclub. And, you know, they took him out, but it was really scary. And so that was kind of, I started kind of going with that as well. I started thinking about

Basically, I was asking myself the question of what I would do if my wife was killed in a school shooting. And then the script became real. Because then at that point, I was I was really putting myself into this film. In fact, this became one of the hardest things I ever had to write because I was getting so emotional while I was writing these scenes. I was literally writing a horror film simultaneously.

And funnily enough, the horror film was like my break from writing this. I was just saying.

was so intense it was, my goodness.

I was like exhausted emotionally from writing this. like, okay, put that aside. How's this guy going to keep it going? It was it was a lot. But that's kind of when I knew I had something when I was like feeling this much emotion just from the actual pages I was I was writing. That's when I knew something was there. And honestly, everything just kind of fell into place after that.

horror film.

Because even like production itself, I honestly thought when I finished it and I was really proud with what I had. And it's so rare that you feel that good about a first draft. But, and honestly the end product wasn't that much different from the first draft. I want to say I did maybe two or three rewrites of things.

That's impressive. And I love how you merged a lot of your personal experience, your lived experience, the current events, and you used that as part of the plot of the story because one, it was unexpected. I don't know how much I can say about the film, so I'll leave it to you to say what happens. But, you know, a lot of the parts that you wrote in, it was refreshing to see in the sense that it was not expected and it's current and it's something that we can relate to, especially here living in the U.S.

Fortunately, in some cases, unfortunately in others, but it's a very real thing that we experience and part of our zeitgeist. So the way that you wove it into the film was not just smart and relevant, but also very tastefully done because it's a very heavy, tricky subject to address. And you did it in a way that it didn't feel like, like I just wanted to sit there and cry and like think about how horrible life is, you know, like you did it in a very uplifting way if that's a way you could look at it.

Thank you so much. And yes, I genuinely appreciate that. That's that's exactly what I was going for. And it was a tightrope at times because I mean, you're right. This this is a wholly American film, right? Like everything about this film, the idea of dealing with such a heavy subject matter of school shootings, the idea of taking to the road across the country in an RV.

Everything about it, it's very American. And funnily enough, there's, you know, a lot of the places that we did play overseas, like they just ate it up because it's not really something that they live in. But I think using the word zeitgeist, that's a perfect word for it because it is kind of in the moment and sadly, it just won't go away. And it's unfortunate, but there's also a lot that we just don't want to talk about.

The idea of school shootings is something that a lot of us just don't want to talk about. We want to ignore. In fact, when I was editing the film, that footage, that scene in itself, you know, it's not a graphic scene by any means, but seeing the children hiding behind the desk, seeing, you know, Saul, the teacher kind of crouching back there with them and trying to keep them quiet as this is happening within the school, that was really, I had to

continually make that shorter and shorter because people didn't want to watch it. They were just like enough. I don't want to see anymore. was like, well, I want you to keep watching the movie. So let's.

Right, right. that's interesting that you had to kind of, you know, edit that part out just to make sure that people kept going.

I mean, but that's what I wanted. I wanted to be able because, as you said, the idea of this grief, this this moment in time, these bullets aren't just hitting the people that they kill. They're hitting everybody who is close to that person. And, you know, they're they're suffering an injury or a death somewhere inside them, just as bad as as the people that are no longer with us. And I really wanted

the audience to kind of feel that sense of, you know, the terror that they may not have necessarily been completely a part of, but that, you know, it's still a part of them.

Right, and it impacts more than just, you did a good job in showing how it just doesn't impact one person, it impacts the whole community for a long time thereafter because the film is not just about that. Like it touches on the topic of school shootings and this thing that we have to deal with as a reality of our school system. And also it's about the journey that ensues thereafter. So it's interesting how you did this very nice blend of touching on those very hard things and then what happens after.

Yeah, mean, because, you know, sadly, life goes on and it's hard and it's, you know, like I said, was like asking myself, what would I do? What would I do if I lost my wife? I mean, in any way, really. But if I lost my wife in a school shooting, I don't I don't think I'd stick around here. I think I probably would get in the RV and just I may not never ever come back. Right. And that's you know, that is one way of dealing with grief is running from it.

100%. And I've heard people shame that because it's like, you're running away from your problems. I also like to reframe it as a very understandable response to loss and a protective wisdom within ourselves that tries to say, hey, I can't deal with this right now. I need a breather. Let's break pattern and go in our RV with our dog and travel the country and see what happens. I need a breathe. And that's very valid, too.

And so it started as like, hey, I couldn't imagine this because of an event that happened locally, but did you mean to touch on the subject of griefs? Was it just a topic that kind of forces character development? Was that as intentional or was it?

I guess it was intentional from the start. Once I realized that I knew that's where we were headed. Once I realized, okay, this character is going to lose somebody. And now the rest of the film, because it's almost like you're pulling out the rug from underneath the audience. needed to, I really wanted to build Gina's character up. I wanted to find somebody that the audience could really fall in love with. And that's why I was like,

really, you know, the idea of using her social media in the beginning of the film, it's a good use of a tool, almost like a cheat, because, you know, when we watch social media, this is where a lot of celebrities actually gain a lot of traction because us as viewers, as an audience, it's almost like we're forgetting we're watching somebody we don't know. We start developing, you know, subconsciously this kind of this idea of like, I could be friends with that guy or I could be friends with that girl.

And it's, you we almost kind of start building a relationship with these people on a screen that we've never met in our lives, but we feel some kind of kinship with them. So I kind of, wanted to use the idea of her using social media as like a device of doing that with our audience who was being introduced to this couple for the first time. And in doing so, I was trying

I don't know if I succeeded at this or not, but I was basically, in a nutshell, trying to make it seem like Gina was the lead character in this film.

It felt a little bit like that, yeah.

So, I mean, she's literally...

Very important in the character, yeah.

Right, and so that was another reason for using the social media and doing selfies, because I'm literally putting her in the foreground. So she's all the audience sees at first right in the foreground and Saul's just in the background the whole time. So when we get to the scene where the actual school shooting happens, it's almost like, wait, what, this isn't about her?

Yeah, I appreciate how Gina is an equally important part. And even though the main scene, I'm not going to give it all away, happens earlier on in the film, she's still very present. It's still a very active part of the rest of the film. it's very honest to the grief experience in terms of how you see those flashbacks when you're on your life. You're trying to remake your life, trying to find a new path, and yet you still have those powerful...

flashbacks of what was and how you reconcile that with the present. So it was very effective in that sense. And I love that you use the social media because it's so relatable to, again, today's world and the world we live in. You also carry her phone throughout the journey. So she's present throughout the whole film, really.

Yeah, that's that's that's what I really wanted to her. I never wanted to feel like she was leaving us ever at any point. And because I mean, they do stay with us. Yeah, we lose their they're never not there. They're always with us in some way or another in the back of our minds. And now I wanted to kind of capture that sense without doing it in a cheesy way. You know, like a 90s action film, what we see.

The white whispering from under the sheets or something like that. I didn't want

You did a great job. also like Rosie is a superstar in this film as much as Hannah, right? But Rosie is such a superstar. And to be honest, when I first heard about this film, was literally, you know, I get a message about it. I see the title and my dog is on my lap, like asking to go on my lap. And I was like, my dog has been.

such a key part of my own grief journey and so many grievers that I know like animals are such a cube role in helping us heal. So I found it very interesting that you incorporated Rosie as such a main character because she is a star in the show. Why did you do that? What is it about our pet's presence that is such an important part of the journey and life after loss?

Well I mean I can't speak for everyone. can certainly speak for myself though. Rosie is... she's everything to me. Like that dog is my heart. She's a part of my soul. She's you know I think both my wife and I feel the same way. She's our best friend. Like I should preface we actually just lost Rosie in April.

I'm so sorry. I was not aware.

Yeah, she was 15. I mean, when we were shooting, she was already like 12 years old. But I mean, she doesn't look it. She looks like a puppy. She's our forever puppy. So, you know, I've actually been dealing with my own grief in that regard. And, you know, it's that's been really hard. But I I wouldn't have attempted this with any other animal. I just knew her so well.

And, you know, I'm the one who trained her. I raised her. I knew what she was capable of. I knew her routines. And I knew that she just had she has a she has so much character. And. You know, I think everybody thinks that of their own dog, but I really tried to be I tried to be non-biased. I really do feel like there was really something special about Rosie. She was definitely one in a million.

And just it's hard to explain. She had comedic timing in a way, even just her little side eye that she would give. And, you know, they always say, you know, don't work with with with animals or children. And I chose both on my first go out. My first go around here. But yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of it also speaks to. You know, she.

There's so many tales about these literal literary characters going on these guided journeys. And, you know, so many of them have some kind of spirit guide or spirit animal, so to speak, that goes along with them. And Rosie definitely portrays that. You know, she is an anchor. I think if.

If Saul didn't have her, I mean, there is a line in the film where it's subtle because I didn't want to draw too much attention to it. But Saul does say, I swear to God, Rosie, if you could feed yourself, I would. And then he doesn't finish the line. He doesn't finish the thought. But I think he probably would have. He he might have, you know, ended his own life because of the grief, but he has this sense of responsibility.

Rosie can't fend for herself. She can't, you know, she's just this little dog. She's not going to be able to take care of herself by any means. So I that's kind of what keeps him grounded. And. Ricky, actually Ricky Gervais did a very similar series, I think it's called Life After or something like that. Yeah, I'm terrible with names, but it was.

can't remember the name, but I remember the series. I'm watching a few episodes of that series. It was really good.

Yeah, I will say that I wrote this before that. OK. Yeah, the record now, but now it's a brilliant series. I loved it and it was kind of his character went through the same thing. You know, he was he was doing a lot of really bad things that just because he just didn't care. And the one constant in his life, the one thing that kept bringing him back was that dog.

For the record.

And so like it or not, Sol was, you he wasn't walking Rosie, she was walking him.

100%. And I love that you bring that up because, well, first of all, I'm deeply sorry for the Lasset Rosie that just kind of tugged at my heart when you said that. I'm so sorry. She's so special. And I love that she gets to live on in this film and that we get to know her. She did a fantastic job. You know, paid actor for sure. did fantastic. And yes, absolutely. It is something honest that you just said. And I do hear it from a lot of people. What got me out of bed was my dog, my cat, my pet.

because I had to literally take them outside to use the bathroom, let's say. Or just the basic function, they help us get through the hardest times in life. And they are such a powerful presence in these tiny bodies that just help us navigate with ease better than a lot of humans do, actually. So I thought it was beautiful that, know, the character, our soul, embarks on this journey with Rosie and Hannah all by themselves across America. It's very poetic and it's very beautiful.

Thank you. It's been this is the best and worst thing I've ever done because it's torture watching this movie for me now.

I could only imagine. No, I could only imagine. And you talk about how you had a lean operation from day one. You had to think about the resources ahead of time to see what can I tap into so that I could create, so that I could bring this to life in a way that it doesn't require like a multimillion dollar budget to create this film. And the final product has actually gone up against multimillion dollar budget productions and won.

because you don't necessarily congratulate, well deserved. You don't, you know, it's about the story and the story is very powerful. walk us through that journey, how you had to do the best with what you had and tap into that creativity.

So, thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, it's all story first, right? And that's really what I wanted to focus on first and foremost. And that's where every film should focus first and foremost. It's all about story first. I knew that I needed to create something. I needed an angle, right? I could do comedy, I could do drama, but it needed to be something that people could relate to.

And I think that most of what this character goes through, know, school shooting aside, is certainly relatable to a lot of people.

I, you know, kind of piecing this whole thing together, was, you know, a lot of people use that phrase, you know, everything happens for a reason. And I don't like to lean on that, but it just kind of felt that way. Every curse turned into a blessing. And there was so many times that this happened before production, during production, after production, it still keeps happening. And it just, it feels like a miracle.

I knew I had a great story and forgive me I'm usually humble about this stuff but like

Don't be. Go ahead. I put a lot of work into this. You deserve it. Go ahead.

Thank you, thank you. I knew I had, debatable whether it's good or not, I knew I had something that was at least relatable. And so my first thought was I was gonna do like a proof of concept. We're just gonna shoot for your audience members who don't know, like a proof of concept. It's almost like a trailer, but it's like a short film. It's like a trailer and a short film almost, depending on what you wanna shoot, mix into one.

And it's really just to showcase the story that you want to create, the larger story that you want to create. And so that's what I, you know, kind of focused on and what I was trying to do. I thought, okay, maybe I can make a proof of concept here, make a short film to kind of showcase the bigger story that I want to create. And so I kind of started inching toward that. And then suddenly I get a call from John McGinty, my director of photography for this film.

And he's like, you know, you should ask me, I want to let this thing for you. And I was like, buddy, I can't afford you. And but again, you know, covid nobody is working and everybody really wanted something to do. And John McGinty is incredibly talented, but he's been a gaffer for most of his career. And he was really wanting to, you know, step to the next level and become a director of photography. So this was kind of the perfect vehicle for him to do that.

And so suddenly I had a director of photography. had a camera. had equipment. I've had like, yeah, I've been working in the in the film industry for a good 20 years. so. Yeah, I built up a. Good enough amount of gear to, you know, to make a film with. And. You know, again, it all just kind of started rolling into place.

Suddenly I had other people that wanted to join us. The funny thing is, my hair and makeup girl, I met her playing video games.

As one does, right?

So again, during COVID, I was playing a lot of the Friday the 13th video game, which you can no longer do, they shut it down. And I met Marissa Culp on there and we just started playing like every night, every other night, you know, for having nothing else to do in the middle of COVID and got to talking and started talking about, you know, her experience as a hair and makeup artist and all the projects she's worked on. I thought, you know,

If I get something going, would you want to come up here? She was in West Virginia and she said, yeah. So I called her up and I said, hey, remember, you said you wanted to do this. Don't back out now. Oh, yeah. And that's kind of how everyone else kind of fell into place, too. And suddenly we had a crew, a very small crew, albeit. But everybody came in knowing that they were going to be wearing multiple hats, that we weren't going to be doing just one thing. So.

I you now.

I was directing, I was producing, I was acting, I even made meals. I made lunch and dinner for everyone. Wherever we could save, we did. And we're a scrappy team and nobody was expecting, you know, large luxuries or having, you know, all the big attachments that come with a big budget film. we didn't need that either.

It felt like a filmmaking summer camp. Because we would shoot all day and then, you know, we would hang out and have fun all night. it was it was just it was honestly the most obvious thing to say, but it was the most rewarding filmmaking experience that I've ever been on. And it was kind of really reassuring that this was the next step that we wanted to take. And so.

We continued this for about a month originally, like our principal photography was about a month long. I want to say like 27 days. And at that point we knew that we wanted to continue on this journey, everybody involved. We knew that we wanted to use Sendero as like our foundation of what we wanted to build upon and kind of continue moving from there.

your team is small but mighty nimble and it just feels like there was so much heart on everybody's part from the makeup person to the fact that everything came along like you said so serendipitously like it wasn't something forced it felt very organic and that comes across in the film because you have there's a lot of feeling and thought and emotion and it's not this fast-paced action film with all these explosions and car scenes it's this film that is

It's pure heart, it's honest, it's beautiful. And it takes the viewer on this journey because you have some surprise elements, even comedic elements that I wasn't expecting. I was like, oh my gosh. So I love how you, you know, there's all these unexpected parts woven in and you did it with a lot of creativity, a lot of heart and a lot of very committed people over COVID who wanted to, you know, not be in their houses, you know, their creative spirit to work.

Well, yeah, was a lot of, it took a lot of pre-production, a lot of planning. You know, you gotta have a huge amount of coordination and planning before taking on any kind of filmmaking to any degree. But for something as small as this, I mean, we had to be meticulous. And again, like to speak on the serendipitousness of everything that happened within, like even within production, we would have.

There was like so many blessings in disguise where I would book like the second day I had booked like 50 extras to be in a scene and 15 people showed up. It's like, well, OK, how are we going to make this work? so this is a I'll tell you a funny story. So we we you know, we were trying our best. Everybody was getting on the phone, everybody locally anyway. All my local people were getting on the phone.

calling friends and family, just saying, hey, you need to get out here. We're shooting the scene, you know, just dressed like business casual. It's gonna be fun. You're gonna get paid. And my mother-in-law, she got on the phone and was calling people and she knew that I lost one of my guys that was playing a cop. So I had a guy playing a cop and he just was a no call, no show. Just didn't show up.

And so I needed to find somebody else to fit this police uniform or just somebody else to portray a police officer. She actually used to teach as well. And she had an ex-student that she was still in contact with that is a police officer. So she calls him up, says, hey, can you come be in this movie? You're just going to stand around. There's like a, you know, it's like the aftermath of like a school shooting. You're just going to kind of be there. You're in the background.

you may have a line we don't know yet. And so he's like, yeah, this sounds like fun. In New York state though, you have to get, if a police officer wants to be in a film, he has to get permission from his boss. You have to get like verbal and written permission to do anything like that. If you're a police officer betraying a police officer on camera. So the guy asks his boss who was the sheriff and he says, yeah, that sounds pretty cool. What are we gonna be doing in it? well.

It's happening at the local school here. And that's all the guy heard was school shooting. He didn't hear anything else. It was immediately got on the phone. It's, you know, the small town rumor mill playing games of telephone. Basically, he started calling the superintendent. We had full permission. It's not like we were there, you know, without permission or anything like that. But I mean, they're ready to come after us with their pitchforks.

And what the rumor ended up being was that we were shooting some kind of documentary in the school about gun violence and drug use and we were planning evidence everywhere to support our. Yeah, that we were basically making up a story about a shooting that happened in the school. And so they came immediately and were like, shut it down. And this this was this was our big game. I've got, you know, this is this.

my goodness.

This is the first day for Nikki Velastro who played Gina. This was her first day. So this is what she's experiencing on day one. So who are these guys? What did I get mixed into? I ended up, Joe Palmer's gonna hate me. He's the superintendent of the school. ended up walking him out and saying, yes, I understand. We're gonna get this all wrapped up. I completely understand. I'm so, sorry.

I'm playing ball and so I walk him as far away from where we're shooting as I possibly cab. And it's like on the other side of the school. And I say, you got to give me like 30 minutes, 45 minutes. We got a lot of gear. It's going to take us time to wrap up. And he says, OK, yeah, sure, sure. I'll hold them. I'll hold them off. And so I shut the door and I sprint back to where we're shooting. Like I said, other side of the school completely. We got to go. We got to go.

We're getting kicked out. got to shoot everything. We shot everything. All of the stuff with, you know, the actual school shooting that takes place, all the stuff in Gina's classroom. That was all shot in about 30 minutes. All of it. One of the cops. That's impressive. One of the cops that's like.

You have that motivation to get it done and get it right.

You're spending all this money. This is the thing with filmmaking. You're spending all this money on a day. It's not like, well, let's try again tomorrow. No, you make it work. And so one of the cops that's holding down Saul, he was the father of the kid who portrayed the school shooter. I'm literally, I was like wearing, he came in like wearing cargo shorts. I was wearing a pair of jeans at the time because we hadn't even started shooting yet.

I rush in there, I take my pants off in front of this man who I've just met for the first time and I'm like, here, put these on, put on this FBI coat. You're playing a cop now. Stein this.

Nice to meet you. We have 10 minutes.

Yeah, we have 10 minutes. I'm just like, I'm standing in front of this family taking off my pants, putting on Sol's costume. It was it was a lot. But, know, we got through and we made it work. But stuff like that happened for so like so many times during production and we just had to keep rolling through it. We had to just keep rolling through the punches. But a lot of that, again, it was a blessing in disguise because we got you. think you could feel the panic.

from, I think you could feel it through the screen of us really just panicking trying to get this all together. We didn't slayed anything. My editor hated me for that because nothing was slayed. We just went from one shot to the next, the next, the next. But I think that comes through, that kind of energy comes through in the scene a lot more because of it. It's almost like everybody's method acting at that point. But it also, it worked out because there was some stuff that

we shot in Sol's classroom that I didn't like. And we ended up having to reshoot it. But we reshot it at a different school. And that's what you see in the film is a completely different school and it looks a lot better. And it came out a lot better. And we had more kids, because that extra problem, we had that a lot. There was a lot of people that just didn't show up.

If you're ever hired as an extra, please show up. I like that story and I know it's, we're mixing, you know, the funny element of production about a very heavy subject. So actually knowing that gives that scene just that much more meaning. So if you're listening or watching and once you see that scene, now you know like what actually happened while it was being filmed. And we're talking about obviously a very heavy subject that has impacted many families and there's nothing funny about the way that it's been.

Please do.

impacting people in our society at large. So we're not making light of that. We're just making light of the hoops and gymnastics that you have to do, mental, emotional, creatively to get a scene as powerful as that to be conveyed effectively with all of these hurdles you had to navigate in real life. And that's like such a juxtaposition for life, grief, all the things, everything happening at once. It's very, almost like a very honest take on

the reality of loss. even in filming, it's interesting that all these funny elements happened. And yet when you watch the film, when you watch the final product, you could feel the pain, the chaos, the magnitude of that moment that so many people can relate to. And it comes through. So thank you for sharing that. was actually, now I have a new perspective on that scene. Thank you.

But you know, there was a lot of stuff that happened like that where we would, you we lost a couple of locations. The location we ended up getting was better. A lot of the travel stuff that happened in the film, I wanted to go to a lot of places that were really kind of off the beaten path. And I mean, there was some places that we went to, because we went, started, know, production happened in New York state, but we went as far as we're like right on the border of South Dakota.

So we took a really big road trip and just we're looking for all these places that were, basically I was trying to use this as an opportunity to kind of get people to get out and travel, to kind of give that kind of inspiration toward that journey. And a lot of the place, there was, we had this huge itinerary of places that we were going to and some places were, it was one place that had been completely flooded.

One place was on fire. One place was closed down because of COVID. So it was like we were just playing. It was like being the ball on a pinball machine. We were just bouncing around. But I'm glad that you mentioned the idea of like comedy with grief because that was a big part of the inspiration of the tone of this script. Because for me, the hardest I've ever laughed in my life was at a funeral. And I know that sounds very macabre and odd.

I'm like yes and no because dark humor is such a big part of grief. It's how a lot of people cope with grief,

I mean, in that moment, your cup is running over. You're just overflowed with these emotions. You're holding on. It's like in the moment of holding onto so much grief and you're just exhausted from it. And then something silly happens. It could be just silly comment or a bad joke or, well, in my case, was my uncle at the time. He was a cop and he was

putting us into, was my grandmother and my grandfather had died. They died very close together. But he put my father and my uncles and his brothers in the limousine and we were, you know, following the funeral procession. And then he ran away and he ran in such an odd way. I can't even describe the way he ran. And both my dad were watching him and going, is that really how he runs?

And I lost it. But it's just it's it's something silly like that that happens that just it kind of it breaks you. And that was kind of the feeling that I wanted to bring to the audience, because you're right, I didn't want the audience to feel bad. I wanted there to be this glimmer of hope. Because that is eventually the journey does continue. Life does go on.

And there needs to be that hope. It can't be just like, I'm damned and destined to live this life of grief and tragedy for the rest of my days. So that was really what I was really trying to encapsulate. I wanted to bring the audience to the edge, but I needed to give them a soft landing. And I think, you know, I can't take credit for the writing that did that because a lot of it was the

the performances from a lot of the actors that really sold all these things and a lot of performances from even Rosie that made up for that.

So there was a lot of scripted and also unscripted things that unfolded to convey that soft landing. And I also love how your characters are very diverse. You brought a lot of culture. touched on, you made that also part of the narrative and the context of the greater story. So what made you choose that? Why did that feel important?

Well, I actually am a Steezel. I'm Native American and Hispanic. My mother's family comes from Spain. My father is Native American. And like very dueling cultures there. Exactly. So that being a Hispanic person, like obviously I don't

A lot of history there.

Traditionally, a lot of people don't think I look Hispanic. However, if you go to Spain, everybody looks like me, right? But that's plagued my entire career as an actor. I've either been not brown enough or too brown. So. And yeah, that still happens to me to this day. So I really wanted to bring that influence into this film because, yeah, these things are

a big part of who I am. Being Hispanic, being Native American, this is very much my culture, my heritage. They've influenced the person that I am today, but they're not all that I am. And there was an interview with, I mentioned this to somebody else recently, there was an interview that I'd seen with Aziz Anzarin, and I was really inspired by his words. He refuses to play like a quote, Indian guy.

Like he refuses to play, he refuses to any kind of accent because to him, he's a guy from South Carolina. He's not an Indian guy. Is he Indian? Yes. But he's, you know, and I guess for lack of a better word, like an American. So those are the roles he plays. He plays characters named Tom and Jerry. And I wanted to kind of create something like that as well.

I wanted to kind of showcase what it is to be mixed race, not only have these things that are a part of your culture, but I'm not a stereotype either. Yeah, so I really wanted to kind of build this character and this idea to, I guess for lack of a better word, of normalizing it.

Wait, I'm not-

And I appreciate that because we are multifaceted, we're not one thing. And we don't have to be typecast into these really outdated, to be honest, stereotypes of what each nationality looks like or what they say or what they sound like or all these kind of just overdone, overused old mindset. you when you start watching the film, it's like an all-American scene, like typical...

you know, maybe suburbia and maybe slightly rural families, like in the school system, all these things. It's very relatable. And then you also added these other cultural elements that add depth to the character in terms of, I'm not just this one side, I'm also the spirituality aspect. I'm trying like not to reveal too much of it, but like the spirituality aspect, the family aspect, even the character's name is Sol means son in Spanish. And even the name of the film, Sendero, so it, means path.

in Spanish and tell us a little bit about how that name evolved. I know that it was originally called Sendero and you've referred to it as the foundation for other projects. So Sendero shifted from that to dogs on the Sendero, so on the path. Tell us a little bit about that and how is this a foundation for the rest of the work that you're doing.

Great question. So yeah, it started the film started out as singular sender and the we got picked up by a distributor called Good Deed Entertainment and They made a very valid suggestion about the main change their concerns were that they they thought that a mainstream audience might perceive this as a foreign language film and it isn't and

That was kind of a punch in the gut at first because for me that name is very poetic and really just sums up the film. But I understood where they were coming from. we took a long time just literally writing names on a whiteboard trying to figure out how to change this. And Dogs on the Sandarrows,

We thought about maybe paws on the Sendero, I mean, is in the sense, you know, that they are a pack. Sol and Rosie and Hannah, because Hannah is their own little character. They're kind of a pack and they're on the path, they're on the trail. So that's in a nutshell, that's basically how the name changed. But I've always loved that word. It just...

It rolls off your tongue and it just sounds so nice. And once you know what it means, it it becomes heavier. And I just fell in love with it. I, you know, this idea of being on our paths has not only been the motivation and influence of this film, but it's been the motivation and influence that has brought us all together. Like we refer to ourselves as the Sendero family.

We're not just a crew. We're not just friends. We're a family. And it really does feel like that now. Like it wasn't even a question of if we're going to do this again. It was like, when are we going to do this again? And that's actually the production company is El Sendero LLC.

I love that. Now, and you know, I was trying to understand why dogs plural form because it's usually only Rosie. But now that you mentioned that it makes perfect sense because we are we get through life, but especially life after a major change or loss with our people, with the things that support us. So it's like a pack thing. It's a community thing. It's a group thing. It's not a

I think it's a we thing. and that, I love that because what supports people, it's not just other people and it's not just our pets. I love that you included Hannah in there. So the RV referencing that because it's people, places, things, plants and possessions that support us. It's not just one thing. I absolutely love that. I understand how initially it could have been like, but I love that one word, San Pedro, you know, it's so powerful and poignant, but.

I also understand why it does make sense and you're on this path with your people, your places, your things that support you. And speaking of places, the whole point of taking the RV through these natural, like gorgeous nature paths and landmarks throughout the United States is actually a part of the healing and a lot of people heal in nature. So it's that path of moving forward with Rosie, with Gina, with...

the loss towards reestablishing that sense of joy and reclaiming your life after loss. I thought it was very powerful. It's very good.

Thank you. Thank you so much. It's really kind of it's about being on a realization of what the path that lays before you. And it's really about taking a step back and kind of understanding that. And I don't think giving away too much here, but like the scene where Saul discovers his eagle feather. That actually happened to me.

And that's that's a legitimate thing that a lot of well, you know, depending on your lineage or tribe that you're from, the story might vary. But in a nutshell, the eagle is the navigator. And I've heard this story so many times when I was a kid from my father, from friends about people discovering their eagle feathers. And it's really just a way of the navigator reassuring you that you're making the right choices. You're on the right path.

you're making the right decisions, keep it up, keep moving forward. And, you know, some people even see it as a symbol of becoming an adult almost. Like you're finally on the right path of adulthood and you're doing the things that you're supposed to do. And that was for Saul. He needed that. I mean, in that moment, he was struggling, had questions about what to do next, what choices to make moving forward and the navigator.

let him know you're making the right ones. And that happened to me when I first moved out here to New York. I moved here from Los Angeles. It was a very heavy decision. I one that I didn't take lightly. I was basically coming here to start over. I was working in the film industry there and I kind of saw the writing out of all. I knew that it was leaving California. So I didn't really want to stay there. didn't really have a strong reason to stay there.

And my wife was still here in New York. Like she and I were actually doing long distance relationship. And so ultimately I decided that I didn't want to be miserable in California. I'd rather be happy in New York. When I first moved here, I was really struggling with that decision of moving from Los Angeles to New York and essentially still trying to work in the film industry and really just starting over. And it was on July 4th.

we went on a hike. And as I said, I live out in the country. It's beautiful here. And there's this long hike right down the street from me. And you walk down this creek. And I was with two of our friends and my wife, and I'm just like dragging my feet because this is nagging me. It's sitting in the back of my mind. I'm just stressing out the entire time. They're having fun entering forward. And

My wife stops me and she's like trying to be reassuring and we have a quick chat and I'm like, okay, okay. And then she walks away and I start walking again and poof right in front of me is that eagle feather. And it's not like the one in the, we use the, you know, traditional eagle feathers that they use in film, you know, the white feather with the black tip. It was one of the inner feathers that are more spotted. I knew what it was though, as soon as I saw it, the moment I saw it, I knew what it was. And I

I like I was in tears I broke down crying and everybody's like, my god, what's wrong with him? You don't understand the answers I've been looking for

Well, that's a very powerful scene in the movie that I will not give away. You will have to watch it. It's very meaningful. one way that I could, like one comparison that I could give to our audience who's very familiar with this is when you get those signs from your loved one or from spirit or little winks from the universe, as I like to call them. It's just the timing, like the context and the timing. Sometimes we ask for signs, we forget about it and something very quote unquote, like random will happen.

And it just feels like validation, confirmation, connection, some kind of nod that, yes, we're here, we're on the right track, things are happening for us. And it's a beautiful scene in the movie. And it's awesome to know that it actually happened in real life for you in such a meaningful moment of doubt and uncertainty. And it just helped you say, no, I am on the right path. And you certainly are with the work that you're doing and the beautiful film that's coming to the world literally in a week. I'm so excited.

I hope everybody thinks you do.

tell our listeners like where they can find it and where it will be streamed and how can they get a little piece of dogs on the Sanero.

So we're doing a limited theatrical release. It's gonna be in a couple of theaters, hopefully in New York City. We're still hammering out those details. But you can find it on August 5th on Amazon, Apple TV +, YouTube, Google Play, and Fandango at Home, which used to be Voodoo. And that's where it's starting out at. So you can find it at all those places. It's actually a pre-order link, I think now, for Apple TV, if that's what you prefer. But Amazon's probably your best bet.

And what is your website? I'm sure that's also plugged into your website.

website is senderomovie.com and you can find us on virtually every social media as dogs on the sendero or sendero movie.

And I'll, of course, link that in the show notes so you can connect with Michael. Please watch the movie. It's so beautiful. And especially if you've experienced, you know, major change, grief, loss, all the things, yes, it touches on heavy subjects and also it's a soft landing, like Michael said. It gives you hope and it's a soft landing for tender hearts. The backstories, you probably even enjoy those scenes even more. And the fact that we get to see adorable Rosie who lives on forever in this beautiful film.

Michael, before we get to the end here, is there anything that I didn't touch on that you would like to include in this conversation at this time?

I could talk all day about this, honestly, no, it a real pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

And the final question, you've given grief a voice through the lens of art and culture. So what do you hope that this movie helps others remember about being alive?

I hope that people see this film and really just take a second look at their own lives, their own paths. I think one of the bigger messages other than grief about this film is the idea of being empathetic, that we're all in this together. Not to isolate, not to be selfish, but to work together more and think about others.

And that's what I continue to try to do and I hope that everyone else does as well.

Beautifully stated. Thank you so much, Michael, for your time, for your work, for bringing so much of this beauty through your creative spirit and to new audiences in exactly a week from today. So thank you for being you and thank you for your generosity of time.

Thank you.

or can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember, you are not alone.