GRIEF AND LIGHT

No Man Walks Alone: A Journey Across America for Men’s Mental Health with Robb Pollard

• Nina Rodriguez • Season 4 • Episode 91

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No man should have to carry it alone.

Many men are hurting in silence, and Robb Pollard knows that silence well.

In this deeply human conversation, Nina Rodriguez sits down with Robb Pollard, founder of Walk With Me Brother, a nonprofit devoted to men’s mental health and connection.

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VIDEO AVAILABLE HERE

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Robb shares his journey of living with bipolar disorder, navigating bullying and alcohol, and learning to face the parts of himself he once tried to outrun. What emerges is a story not just of survival, but of purpose. One of transforming pain into a path that invites others to walk beside him.

In April 2026, Robb will begin a 3,600-mile walk across America, carrying with him one message: no man should have to walk alone. 

Through his openness, Robb reminds us that vulnerability isn’t the opposite of strength. It’s the foundation of it.

Together, Nina and Robb explore what happens when men begin to talk, listen, and support one another, and how breaking the silence can change not only individual lives, but entire communities.

This episode is an invitation: to listen differently, to show up for the men in our lives, and to remember that healing starts with a single honest step forward.

Key Takeaways:

  • Many men are hurting in silence and need safe spaces to talk about it.
  • Asking for help can save your life.
  • Vulnerability is a form of strength, not weakness.
  • Bullying and shame can leave lasting marks on mental health.
  • Community and connection are vital for healing.
  • Therapy, medication, and alternative approaches can be life-changing.
  • Listening is an act of love, and often more powerful than advice.
  • Robb’s Walk With Me Brother movement is a call for awareness, compassion, and shared humanity.

Guest: Robb Pollard

Hosted by: Nina Rodriguez

Grief Support Resources for the Road:

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Thank you for listening! Please share with someone who may need to hear this.

Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers

had centuries of men being told that get on with it, man up from probably our parents generation never talked about the problems, men never opened up. So this is relatively new. Now, why is everybody starting to do it now? Somebody wrote like, what's the big, big fuss now? For me, it's people are losing their lives and that's scary because it's an epidemic. when there's half a million men dying every year more, that's just men that didn't have to die. weren't

physically ill. It was a mental disease that just was never treated because they were told that you can't talk about it.

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. Many men are hurting in silence, so let's talk about it. Today's guest is Rob Pallard, founder of Walk With Me Brother, a nonprofit dedicated to men's mental health and connection.

Rob has lived with bipolar disorder for the majority of his life and has turned that experience into a mission to raise awareness, break the stigma, and remind men that they are not alone in their struggles. In April 2026, so next year as of the time that this is being recorded, Rob will begin a 3,600 mile walk across America, a journey meant to spark conversation, inspire healing, and build community one literal step at a time.

Through his work and his walk, Rob reinforces the fact that vulnerability can be a strength. And I'm so excited to get into this conversation. Rob, welcome to Grief and Light.

Well, thank you for having me, Nina. Great to be here.

It's an honor to have you here. And we were just talking before that I connected through your podcast, which I found an interesting concept, first of all, because it's the Walk With Me podcast. Maybe share with listeners why that concept in particular.

Yeah, it's relatively new, a lot newer than news. It's just something that I've kind of, know, of those things I've had an idea in the background. I want this centered around everything kind of in the mental health space, but obviously as you know, there's so many elements to that. So everything from doctors to spouses who have suffered, students, you know, with mental health and students in sports and teachers, wellness. So it's a double-edged sword. Part of me is like trying to learn.

as well as much information as I can from other people. And that's, think what, um, what my messaging is about. It's not always about talking about your problems, but it's also who's listening, you know, and how are we listening? So there's that side of it. And then the other side of it is just opening up doors and conversations. So hopefully, you know, when I've struggled years ago, and we're talking quite a while ago, there wasn't anything like this around. mean, I grew up in England.

if you had a problem, mental health problem, and you said you had a mental health problem, you would end up in like one flew in the cook cook's nest, you know? yeah, but 100%, you know, Britain has always been light years behind that in that sense. it's moved on and it's evolved. I think, I still, I think it's done, you know, the last 10 years have been incredible with, unfortunately it's been incredible because of how many people have suffered from it.

It was stigmatized.

and how many lives have been lost through it. So what my messaging really is that we don't have to close the door. There are other doors that we can open. You can hit rock bottom and you can come back from this. You can come back from darkness. And I think hopefully I'm leaving proof of that.

Absolutely. And thank you for sharing that. And so the audience gets to know a bit about you and who is Rob, aside that, you know, you're originally from England, which I appreciate you sharing because it is true. There's a cultural component to how these conversations, how openly they're embraced or not, depending on the culture that you come from. But take us back to little Rob, who was young Rob and when did he realize that he was carrying something heavy that maybe others didn't quite see? It wasn't obvious to others.

you're like, Lil Rob was happy Rob. Like little Rob was very confident Rob. I was a younger brother. I was always the more confident brother. You know, my brother used to ask me to walk the local shop with him, which was literally a hundred meters away. I was always very confident. I hit high school. I went through some hormonal changes and you you get kind of like name called and that kind of stuff. I can only speak kids in England where I grew up very working class England and

Kids were really cruel. So bullying took effect. I don't necessarily think that was the start of my mental health issues. I think that stemmed a little bit later. I was badly beaten up when I was 15, 16 was kind of like the real, I think my body had changed hormonally as boys do. And a lot of the conversations I want to have today are with 16 to 25 year olds. Those years can define you and break you.

as a young man. I think there's something, you know, until about 13, 14, I was a really happy kid. And then I went to high school. Our high school works a little bit differently in England. We don't have the middle school concept, but we never used to. It was kind of primary school and straight to high school. So you're in high school from 11 to 16. And then from 16, you have the option for A levels where you go to college. So aside from the kind of the beat ins and things like that,

I definitely started to hear things in my head that I shouldn't hear that I thought probably at the time was normal. There was a lot of screaming in my head. was a lot of, just stuff that you shouldn't kind of like go through as a 14, 15 year old. And there was a lot of self harm on my body. There was a lot, there was nobody I could speak to about it. Cause if you even approached a friend or anyone at school or a teacher, they would have sent you straight off. It wasn't a conversation I could have. I just kind of to deal with it.

And at that time, you know, 14, 15, I also started to experience with, you know, alcohol. was the easiest access for us. So just for fun. But once I started to get into that, it didn't, it didn't mix very well. You know, I was pretty good at sports, soccer, football, and then, you know, athletics. But obviously you can't do both. Unfortunately, you know, my way went the wayside, the wheels started to fall off a little bit.

it's interesting that you say that. I don't know if that has to do with hormones or changing schools or just the fact that, like you said, some kids can be really cruel and the whole bullying aspect of it. And we're going through changes we don't quite understand. So it's probably a combination of all of the above, to say the least. And also there was that culture, I would say like maybe 20 years ago, it's not as much today, where alcohol use is romanticized even prior to legal drinking age. So even in the movies and sitcoms and all these things. So

It's somewhat accepted or was. So I could absolutely see that. And I love how in your podcast episodes and you'd have fascinating interviews with people working with kids and students and mental health. Do you make it specific to men and boys or do you embrace the conversation all across the board?

I think it's all across the board. I I can only relate, I think, as a boy. and I think part of my conversation is that, know, females have exactly the same problems as, you I've got friends here who went through bullying in America. I never just suggest it's boy. And with the age of social media now, I talk about this quite a lot that, thank God I didn't live in that age of social media because...

I don't know what I would have done because there's so much pressure now on kids today. think because I kind of relate to men and boys in that sense because of what I went through. I've really worked hard to get through that very dark chapter in my life. To a point of very recently where I was thinking about it virtually every day, that kind of that darkness, there's a big other gap.

other chapters in my life that I've just whistled by that I never think of. I've been very fortunate to travel the world and things like that, that particular period between 14, 15, 16, 17 is all the years that they're the that I sit there and I kind of daydream about. Fortunately for me, the work I've done with my therapist, through ketamine therapy and all those kinds of things I've done recently has helped me no end.

When you say the darkness, right? I remember, I think it was in the conversation with Raishma who you interviewed on your podcast as well. You talk about the darkness being almost like what you see in your mind when you're not communicating with somebody else. Could you provide a little bit more insight of what that means and how that differs from just like a sad day, your everyday kind of run of the mill sad days? At what point, let's say somebody who's a teenager or even an adult, should they say, hmm, this is a little bit more than just a sad day?

Here's the crazy thing. What I was feeling, I didn't know it was, I just thought it was normal. that's, I just thought I was a teenage boy and kind of like when I was 16, I was actually involved in a funny enough in a car crash. I wasn't driving at the time. And I remember it was 1996. was the year England beat Holland in Euro 96. The Euros were being held and I remember sitting in hospital.

And the doctor came up to me, they, they, they cut me out of the car. was in a passenger seat. It was a Renault five. So it rolled in there for those who knows cars. was a Renault five is like a box. So as soon as you turn a wheel, it rolled. And I remember the doctor prescribing me Prozac and he just saw something in me like, you know, the lights were not on. And I think I'd said something in my kind of like, I don't want to be, and he just picked up one and instantly prescribed these.

Prozac to me and I took them home and the reaction I got from you know, my brother and my mom was was pretty harsh because they would call them happy pills and you don't need to be on them. I never took one. I was just made fun of by my own family for even having the tablets on me. So they got washed away. I mean, I ended up leaving home when I was 16. So shortly after that, but I guess prior to that before that, so you kind of in terms of the darkness, it was a very emptiness feel.

There was a lot of negative thoughts, like as soon as I worked, and I could never put my finger on it because I was pretty popular at school. I had good friends. You know, I was, had a very, very close relationship with my dad. Maybe not so much my mom, but certainly my dad. we, we didn't have a lot of money. but we made the best of what we had that kind of, that feel for it, that, know, the dark kind of.

not going to get out of bed, the self harm, that they're starting to listen to what other people said that you were and what you look like. You start to digest it. And if you hear so many things so many times, you start to believe that yourself. So that's really where it stemmed from. And then the alcohol, you know, I'd found when I was a lot younger, that made me fun. That made me like happy. That made me kind of forget those feelings. That made other people think I was funny too. So that's where that

element came in to the point where, you know, it was creeping in. It would be a Friday night, a Saturday night, know, a Wednesday night, a Monday night. And before you know it, you know, I did even, again, I would never admit I had an alcohol problem, but I was fun Rob on my alcohol and that unfortunately lasted for just under 30 years. So it would have been about 28 years, 29 years. So that went on for quite a while.

Thank you for that. I'm sorry, you didn't have the support you probably needed at that time and that extended from like fun rob into how that evolves into a problem. So thank you for your openness and for using your voice in that way. And for the listeners and anybody watching, we're recording this on October 10th. So today is World Mental Health Day. How do you define mental health, mental health literacy and why is it important to talk about it?

Well, mental health, mean, there's so many elements to it. My circle is very small now, you know, I used to be very different. But even then like mental health, it's not just one component. There's a million things that exist of mental health, like just even breaking down what is anxiety and what I've learned anxiety is, is completely different to what you, you know, people just say, oh, he's got, you know, he's got anxiety, he's got ADHD. We're quick to label anything with kind of like the generic tones of it.

But mental health can affect everybody and I'm sure it affects everybody, you know, from losing your job. You know, just heard the other day that one of my friends had been laid off and to losing somebody too. So there's many, many elements of mental health. And I, you know, I've had, the funny thing is since I've started this, I've had probably for every hundred amazing, favorable, lovable comments, I get that one hater who is, you know, is in my DMs.

you know, just hate like you shouldn't talk about this, you know, you're a pussy and all this. So, and that person's probably struggling too. So there's many elements like what's World Mental Health Day. Unfortunately, for some people it's pretty severe. And for some people it might only touch them once or twice in a lifetime, but I do believe it will, you know, it will happen. it's, I think if it was physical and visible, we would all do a lot more, but because you can't see it.

People hide away about it or they try and forget about it. It's a hard question to answer. Like what is mental health? But it's as much as your physical. I posted this today. So if you break your arm, you're to go and put it in a cast. If you get diabetes, you're going to go and get med, hopefully get medication for it. Now, if you've got a mental health problem, you're just told to kind of like, okay, just talk about it or deal with it. It's a big, big, big open ended conversation, but it's something that should be tackled from very early stages from.

every stage, know, if you're having a rough day, then talk to somebody about it. Talk to somebody you trust about it.

Absolutely. And there was a guest on your podcast who mentioned how it's important to have mental health literacy, having the words, the common language for mental health and how we don't quite have that as a society yet. Like you said, mental health gets lumped in with anxiety and ADHD and all these things. And it's just kind of like a buzzword that people sort of kind of know what it is, but sort of kind of don't at the same time. So it's like, what are we really talking about? And for example, the person who

sent you that comment or anybody who sends you like a mean comment. Whenever I read those, I imagine that that person was never given the room to feel grief or the tools or the permission. And they probably have been like shamed and harassed their whole life. And then that kind of spills onto other people. Would you agree with that? And what's your take on those types of responses?

or a percent and I feel for them and that's exactly why. Unfortunately, there's people with large audiences on social media still to this day publicizing that men shouldn't talk, men shouldn't see therapists, men shouldn't be pussies. And that's hitting unfortunately an age group that is dear to me, which is that 16 to 25 year olds. You're told to make loads of money, you're told to do, but you these gurus and these...

I'm not even going to call them influencers. These are people with large males and large social media phones and they're told to kind of like, you shouldn't. So you're fighting against this in a man's world because you're told to go out and if you don't have a million dollars in your bank by 20 years old now, you're a failure and all this kind of stuff. So, and that's where social media has come in and so much kind of pressure. We never had that kind of pressure.

What I'm struggling with right now is getting the message to people where they are able to, men specifically, young men, even my generation and above, just to open up. Part of what I'm trying to do here is, number one, you need the resources. So not everybody has those resources. So that's my big fight here in America is you've got to pay for it or you've got to have insurance, which honestly disgusts me a little bit.

So part of my fight is opening up the door to those people who can't afford it, who can't have access. I'm very fortunate that I work and I can go out and get the healthcare that I can. There's millions and millions and millions of people who can't do that. that's one. The second thing is some people just don't have anybody to talk to. And that's when I interviewed Ross recently as a wellness director. That's somebody that I think is, wow, he's an amazing job because he's in a classroom with these kids every day.

We need more of that. We need more of more Ross's in the world, you know, in the classrooms for sure. when we do reach out to somebody and, and this is another pain point when I've reached out in the past to people at breaking point, I've often got back like all their problems in return or compared to such and such who he knew, he knew from years ago who I don't really have a lot of problems compared to him. That's not the way to have a conversation. So it's sometimes.

with guys, you know, all you need is just like, those ones who are actually listening to you. So that's another thing that I'm trying to just change the way it's not just changing the way we ask for help is changing the way we listen as well, because we can keep talking and talking and talking like talk about open up, but who's, who's listening. So who is actually listening to you? Cause there's not many people who will actually sit there and say, I got you know, the, we're all focusing on our own problems or, or, know, or.

sibling or partner's partners or spouse. You when you've got a friend who calls you at 10 PM, you know, and I've been prone to this years gone by, I've not answered it because I've got my own stuff going on. Not to knowing that that person who called me was in desperate needs. So it's like, just as a society. how are we trying to change culturally? So there's a couple of elements there. The, the access to it, that the real professional help, which I always advise everybody to go and do, you know, even friends when they say, I get people commenting me on Instagram and

I just say, you know, get professional help. That's what I did. So I can only practice what I preach. went out and I saw therapists and psychiatrists and you name it. Um, the second is obviously if you don't want to do that, you can't afford to do that and you need to find somebody that you can trust. And that person that you trust isn't going to go into 10 other people. What you do. you just finding that in today, again, in today's site, it is pretty hard. Um, so yeah, they're kind of like the key components right now.

And then thank you for touching on that because yes, there's a lot of personal responsibility that one has to take in terms of being honest with oneself about I need help and identifying like when I need help or may need help and being able to communicate that and I would even take it a step further knowing how to receive help because asking for help requires the additional step of knowing how to receive it. The second is that

The onus should not only be on the person. There's a systemic component, there's the community component, the accessibility you mentioned and all that. So talk to us about the role of say community and mental health in your experience.

Yeah, again, I can only speak from my own experiences, just from what I've had to kind of endure and what my friends, this is like two or three people, three, maybe three or four, family. For me, I my brother and my wife. I wouldn't say my parents really to a degree, because I've never wanted to kind of burden them. But I guess, you know, in terms of my community, it's very small. And I would say I'm very fortunate. My wife's not only did she

Decide she wanted to marry me, but she stuck by me even though she knew that I had some kind of mental. I'd had a lot of people over the years say that I wasn't wired right. And I'd hear it. I'm like, oh, you don't even know what you're talking about. So I dismissed it and I'd have conversations with people and then I would just switch off. People automatically said, oh, he's got ADHD. My mind was just so overrun. And then people would see me really high, really happy. Not only if I was on drugs or alcohol, but just naturally. Um,

You know, I lived in the nightlife world in the restaurant business for many years, which nearly killed me. It's a very toxic atmosphere as I'm sure you can imagine, people would come and go in that industry, thousands of people, from, you'd have celebrity friends. Everybody wanted to be friends with you when things were going good in that. Um, so I had a lot of people in my life, but people would often say, you know, he's, he's a bit odd, isn't he? Like he's a bit awful. And then I'd be really down. And then I'd get a lot of people saying, why are you in a bad mood today? And I'm like, I'm not in a bad mood.

So what would, what would I do when I was in a bad mood? I drink and I'd start drinking, you know, every day. you know, say, imagine it started from 6 PM one day, three or four weeks later, it's down to, 2 PM. And then a few weeks after that, it's down to literally put in, you know, pints of vodka and a bit of splash of orange juice at 10 AM just to get me. So I wasn't in that bad mood because alcohol was, you know, believe or not, it was, it was the thing that got me through a lot.

So my community, they saw it. Some people were so afraid of to approach it to me because of the stature of what I held. I had a pretty big night life empire. And I always say it's my old chapter. So some people were very afraid to approach me on it. Those friends who did, I would dismiss automatically, like say, you're crazy. I'm not crazy. But in my heart, I knew I shouldn't be going through what I was going through.

What they never saw behind the scenes was, you know, one night trying to kill myself on sleeping tablets in Shanghai, China. If it wasn't for my dog jumping on the bed and me throwing up the medicine, I wouldn't be here today. Nobody ever saw that. I wrote a note and it wasn't to my family. It was to my personal assistant who was Chinese. She was great. I she was, she was awesome, but it was to her to explain how to kind of manage the dogs. That was it. That was the only thing that I was really.

cared about leaving behind. But when that dog jumped on the bed, I couldn't do it. So when I met my wife, you know, a couple of months into the relationship, she just approached it differently. And I actually listened to her and she said, you know, said, anybody ever said that like you maybe you've got like some issues. What do mean? And she just said, you know, I think maybe you need to go and see a doctor. And that was the first thing because I actually listened to her because I loved her. This is before we were married. And yeah, I got misdiagnosed.

Like I said, straight away, for those who know anything about medication, the worst thing can give anyone with bipolar is Adderall. Before I knew it, I was on 60 milligrams of Adderall a day, which just put me like into outer space. know, obviously it's an upper. My downers with the bipolar was just, and then I went through the worst, I would say like from 2018, 19, we got married in 2019, 20.

took COVID were the worst, darkest years because I was all over the place. And on top of Adderall, there was the alcohol. then because of the alcohol, there was the substance abuse. So I was getting through all these different layers just by chucking everything I could to be happy. And at the same time, scared that if I said what I really felt, then my wife would run for the mountains, you know? So yeah, I think

That was the first stage, the misdiagnosing. That was probably the part that put me over the edge because for those people who take medications will understand that when you get given by the psychiatrist your medication, you've got to go with the lowest dosage and then you've got to see how your body does and then he'll slowly put it up. then he'll, so it's a very frustrating three or four months because unfortunately there is no magic pill. Some of those pills have side effects on you.

Some of those I put on significant weight gain, even though I was working out every day. Some of those give me like really bad facial spots. It affects everybody different. Some of them just didn't work. So I went through every prescription drug, think, for bipolar, everything from lithium, Zoloft, Lamictal, Lexipro, name it. Chintelix, you name it, I've had it. So my community has always been very small. It's been really my wife.

of recent years. But I think the burden I've put on her over those years was just too heavy. And I guess it came to kind of a head probably about a year ago to the point where our marriage was not doing great. And she just said, basically, you've got to do something like I came up with the first two weeks I came off my medication. I was like, I wasn't on anything, but it was imagine that I was on like the happiest pill you can ever imagine. I was flying because of my bipolar.

and then I crashed and then you go dark. yeah, but my community has always been very small, but I'm very fortunate I've had my wife who stood by me and helped me.

Well, first of all, I'm glad you're with us and I'm glad your dog managed to save things in the nick of time. And I'm sorry you were there in the first place and that you felt that you needed to write that letter in the first place. Thank you for that. It is something that if we talk about in the open, there's probably more people than we realize that could relate to that.

I just want to shed a light on these conversations because it bridges the gap between what we think these moments are like, like maybe your friends at the time or the people around you at the time while you were in the nightlife scene and, you know, restaurant and all this very exciting glitzy type of scene. Yeah, I'm sure it was really fun externally. And also, like you said, they didn't see the behind the scenes and everything. And your wife sounds amazing.

I'm glad that you have that support because sometimes we don't need a lot of people. We need the right people next to us and with us. that sounds like it's really important. And people who speak to us with clarity and honesty and cut through the BS that we sometimes tell ourselves. let me ask you, besides your wife asking those questions, was there anything that was helpful to you? Could somebody have reached you in a different way or was it just like a timing thing?

And I asked because my brother struggled with similar things. When you said about the weight gain, you know, that transition between, okay, I need to get help. Let me get on these medications to sustain me and then get on my whatever new normal that looks like. That is a process. And I'm not a therapist or a medical person, you know, disclaimer here. Like this is not medical advice of any kind.

Just know through seeing and through conversations with people that there needs to be an on and off ramp or some management schedule and it has to be closely monitored. A lot of questions there, but one of them is what could have reached you at that point, if anything, and then have you managed or are you currently managing that off ramp or that way to not have to be on so many medications perhaps?

So I've gone through a couple of psychiatrists and I think therapy is a bit like dating. So you've got to find your right match, right? And that's one thing my wife, and to some credits, my other friends, they'll say, I've tried therapy, it doesn't work for me. And I think it's just fine. I had a couple of therapists that just didn't, we just didn't gel well. I remember the first therapist, lovely lady, but we didn't gel like I do with my therapist now.

But to her credit, she was the first person who said, are bipolar. She said, deal with, she specialized in mainly veterans, but she was all about me going to like a sit down with vets and other people with bipolar, which I just did not want. And she kept pushing me for that to the point where I can't do this anymore. But she was the first person who said, I think you've got bipolar. Like as a professional opinion, if I thought about anybody with bipolar, you know, growing up, I would think they were crazy, you know? So.

I think she was the first person and then that translated to a different psychiatrist I went to see and then between them they spoke and they formulated a plan for me and I kind of put them all my eggs in the basket that okay, they've found a cure. So at the same time when all this is going on, I've always looked for like a reason why I am like I am. when I got rear ended in just a

you know, typical LA car accident. And when they did a scan of me, they found that I had a pituitary tumor. So when I started to look into that, I'm like, that's the reason why I've got, I'm depressed. That's the reason why. So in my mind, I'm like, I finally found the reason. This is about 2017, 18. Again, I put all my reasoning, just the logic that I had at that time is that's the reason I cut it out of me or treat that because then I'll be happy.

Of course that wasn't the case at all. there's, know, these are, these are quite common things that just kind of sit there in your head. But I kind of, I've reliant that that was the issue for about six months. Then when I got told I was bi, you know, bipolar, you know, about six months, a year later, the first time they gave me medication, thought the next day I was going to wake up happy. And it's not just not the case. It's a very frustrating period because it's like a bandaid, right? The medication and it's a

One of the things I'm up against in what my message is that I'm up against the pharmaceutical industry, which is a trillion dollar business. And I do believe, you know, with some people that helps people, I'm big for it. But for me, just did not work, the prescription drugs, because I was just throwing different, try this, try this, try this. And like you say, I would have to wait then two months to go and see my psychiatrist to check in with him. And then we enter a world of COVID where it wasn't even two months, it was three months.

And it was a 15 minute conversation, which he was five minutes late for because he's unindated with, you know, his clients that I'm on a portal like this and then I'm locked away during COVID. So yeah, that, that, that whole period was just, I just wish we could do things a little bit differently. I still think we're a little bit in the dark ages there with some of the stuff.

I agree. There's a long way to go, but I trust that we will get there hopefully sooner than later. And just mental health in general with the way that it's talked about with men or the way that it's internalized for men, why do you feel, right? Because I feel like there's different answers for different people, but why do you feel it's so either, you know, stigmatized to talk about mental health as a man? Why is it so shunned? Why is it so taboo?

to the degree that it is today, and how do you see it changing?

I found endurance sports over the last couple of years to really help me, just everything for even from like, look at sports people, you know, I was downstairs, I'm on a treadmill and I was just watching, funny enough, I was just watching Gladiator. I was looking for the inspiration for, I've got a race next weekend. And then you look as a man, you like, you watch these movies. This is like centuries. Everything we're trying to do now is in a very small decade or maybe two decades where we've had centuries of men being told that.

get on with it, man up. You know, from probably our parents' generation, never talked about the problems, men never opened up. So this is relatively new. Now, why is everybody starting to do it now? Somebody wrote, like, what's the big, big fuss now? For me, it's people are losing their lives and that's scary because it's an epidemic when it's half a million men dying every year more. So to me, that's just...

men that didn't have to die, weren't physically ill, they weren't terminally ill with, God forbid, a disease. was a mental disease that just was never treated because they were told that you can't talk about it. And we've lost key figures, from comedians to actors to chefs to musicians, you name it, right? The real one that kind of hit me was Anthony Bourdain because I was like, wow.

You know, he's just someone who never had a problem. Like the coolest guy in the room. then Robin Williams went and that was kind of like the first time I started to open up to people, especially my wife and then my friends and then, you know, kind of my platform at the time was 2017, 18. And that was, that was kind of like the first part, but then I had to go through hell again and not talk about it for a few years and just deal with it until recently. Unfortunately, I think we've, we've had

Generations, centuries as men to be told. this is all really new. Like the way we think is new. And I'm harping on about it because I don't want people to lose their dad or their brother anymore. So it's just like, what can I do? And I had the last roll of my dice. had the last roll and that was for me was ketamine infusion therapy. And I'm not saying this works for everyone as a disclaimer, but that saved me because

I tried everything else. There was no more doors to try, from therapy to prescription drugs to hard drugs to alcohol. And I've got two kids now, so I'm like, there has to be something else. And unfortunately, my therapist had mentioned it, my wife mentioned it. And of course I dismissed it for six months because I've heard all this before. I've tried all this before. And then there's the added expense that this is not.

something that's covered by my insurance. is a $3,000 cost. Fortunately that cost is not upfront for me, but it was paid over a month monthly. for me, that was the final shake of the dice.

Thank you for sharing that. And for people who don't know what that is, just briefly touch on what exactly that is. And disclaimer, this is not an endorsement. Do your own research. It's not for everybody. So I want to be clear, because it is a controversial topic in treatment and not fully embraced by everybody. But I do want to share your experience about what is it and how did it help you.

Everybody's different, right? I think what's revolutionary about this is the science behind it. and I'm, I'm a very impulsive person. You know, I'll take our book, a trip for me and my wife. You know, I'm just, I'm just kind of like that more spontaneous. She's like, what have you done there? I've got a thousand business ideas every day. I'll say to my wife every now and but with the Katminton, I knew in my heart of hearts, it was.

there was so much pressure for it to succeed that I had to go in like a million percent with it. So I did my research. That was the first thing. And I did six months of research on it. And you know, I looked into everything, there's kind of ways you can take it, know, through tablets and things like that. the more, there wasn't a lot of information out there. There wasn't a lot of YouTube videos out there. And some of it's, I don't know if it's censored or doctored or whatever.

But I did find a clinic here and there's a lot in LA, so we're pretty fortunate here. But I did find one here. I did all the basics, look at Yelp and Google reviews and all that. There's a lot, lot of good reviews, but I found the one here and like clicking with my therapist, I clicked with the doctor there. He was actually on my first episode of water, my brother. But I think what really got me, it wasn't really him. It was the science that I couldn't argue with about. One of the things that

He said to me on our very first phone call is like, we're not born depressed as people. We're not born as kid. And you took one of the first questions you asked me. I was a very happy kid. I was a really happy like seven, eight, nine, 10 year old. I was just always fun. If you look at photographs of me now, I was always smiling. So I knew deep down I wasn't born disfigured. I wasn't born with this issue. And God forbid that there's kids out there that go through hell.

And I was very fortunate, but something happened. And I think you've kind of triggered that with like 14, 15, 16, 17, something happened in there. And you get those comments. I'm not wired correctly. There's a chemical imbalance. you know, I did my research, like the medication is not working. So what else can there be? There has to be something that can help rewire that. And I was this close to go into the, the electroshock thing, you know, where you have to go in every day for, so I was that desperate.

That's how desperate I was and I wanted to do it because I wanted to become off alcohol. want to come off substance abuse. want it to be a good dad. You know, I wanted to be an example. So ketamine therapy definitely do your research, but it's the neuroplasticity that you go through. You're basically part of a medical induced trip as it be. Um, it's disassociations, hence the crazy shapes that, you know, I see people coming back from the dead and talking to me and

You go through so much in that like little 45 minute and you know, the doctor's checking in on you. Um, the nurse is checking on you. You're monitored on camera and you kind of just lay there for 45 minutes, an hour. Um, and you know, the average I believe is six sessions. did 13 and I've just recently had two kind of booster sessions, which is all included in my yearly plan. That's what works for me. Um,

I started to kind of feel a difference. I would probably say by session three, I didn't have that sense that I didn't want to get out of bed anymore. I didn't have the sick depression. wasn't thinking about, like I said, those incidents that happened when I was 16, 17, 18, because we attacked my intentions because it's like a part therapy to it. So what's my doctor called it? Basically those bad memories and all those kind of PTSD things that have happened in your life.

They're still there in my head is imagine like you've got a computer's desktop and you've got all those bad memories. You're just putting them into a separate folder. They're still there. You know where they are, but they're not covering your whole home screen anymore. They're not absorbing my whole day. I'm not in these kind of pity parties from something that happened over 30 years ago. There was four elements. There was the PTSD component, which it kind of attacked first. There was the substance abuse from January of this year. I've been sober.

January, February, March, April, I thought about alcohol every day, every single day, but I didn't do it. But it was eating me up. Like for those people who are trying to get sober, there's so many steps and things you have to go through. And then months where I've not drank because I got into endurance sports to help me with that. But it was still eating me up every day. if I thought about it, felt guilty. So that was the second step. The third step for me was the depression because

of my dark depression. didn't want to be depressed anymore. I didn't want to be five out 10 anymore. I didn't want to be three out of 10 anymore. know nobody's 10 out of 10 every day or nine out of 10 every day, but I just didn't want to be every day three or four out of 10. So that was the third thing it attacked. And the fourth thing, is probably the thing I've struggled with the most and the hardest thing is the anxiety part of the sick feeling of constantly feeling like something bad's going to happen. You know, somebody

All these kind of like negative thoughts that eat you up, which again, I know is not normal, but for about 20 years I thought was normal. you know, I've been in restaurants and think, you know, constantly thinking like, where's the exit doors? Like how do you know what happens if a gunman comes in? Like just, you just eat you up constantly. Like if my dad calls, you know, you know, if my mom calls me, she telling me that my dad's caught died us. So just all these different things that you shouldn't think of as like, as a, you know, as a normal.

normal thing. So just always thinking like these negative thoughts. So that was the fourth thing that it hit, which is up was the kind of the hardest part was the anxiety part. And for me, anxiety was like, feeling so sick, feeling so drained, not being able to sleep. And then that would then in term trigger trigger something in within my bipolar. So that's always been that's been the hardest thing for me to hit. I wouldn't say it's cured, but it's 1 million percent better than it was.

Well, it sounds fascinating in that it addresses all of the different points. It's not just, you you lay there for 45 minutes and that's the end of it. It's more of an imprehensive, it sounds like, treatment plan or support that I'm glad were.

I guess the best example it would be, if you imagine your brain full of like roads in your brain and you want to get a car from A to B, sometimes from A to B there is something stopping that. So from A it then has to take a different direction. So instead of it going a different direction, trying to fill the holes in or the potholes in on that, so that road then becomes open again. So if you look at your brain like that, there's millions and millions of kind of like

roads in there. I don't know, was it, you know, through the hormonal change that I had, was it the beating that I got when I was 16, people were stamping on my head. Was it the years of bullying? Was it the years of substance abuse? That's my own fault. Like, I'm sure that would not help, but something went in there, although I had probably hundreds and thousands of potholes in my head where those wires were not working correctly.

So what the neuroplasticity has done is being able to re-induce those roads again. And one of things I said to the doctors, like, what happens now? Like, what do I do now? And he went, go on, go on, live your life. And I'm like, nothing, just, this is it. You know? So I'm just, again, I'm like, this is too good to be true. But you know, every two or three months I've got to go back for boosters. It's not like a one and done. And I know that and it's, I will, I'll be honest with you. It's not a very pleasant experience. So I want to have the misconception when people think of Ketamine.

They think of like the disco came in. It's not a pleasant experience for me. And there's some very dark things that you go through on those trips. Um, and it's very hard to explain for me. was like being on a roller coaster. There's a lot of shapes. get buried alive. There's a lot of negativity, but you've just got to get through that for not 45 minutes can sometimes feel like 45 years, like a thousand years you're locked away. So it's not, you know, I,

It's not a pleasant experience to go and get a free ketamine session at all. It's, used to dread going through some of the sessions. Some of the sessions towards the end were a lot brighter and colorful, but those early ones were like pretty dark. And I used to dread going in and I was having to go in twice a week. I'd go in like 4.30 till six ish. Yeah, I think it was every Monday and Thursday because you're supposed to do it every three days. And after that session, there's not much you can do. You can't drive and

you don't really have much go about you because it's like coming out of an operation. When you have an operation, you're given ketamine, you're given a very low dosage. So you're pretty useless for the rest of the evening after that. it's not like, it's not an encouragement to go and get free ketamine because it's not. And I've tried the substance ketamine, it's completely different.

don't know enough about it to comment on it, but thank you for sharing your experience and I'm glad it's helpful because at the end of the day, we just want to not feel like you said, like a three out of 10 all the time. That's not normal and that's not helpful and that's not conducive to anything productive in life. So thank you. I do want to make sure that we get enough time to talk about your upcoming 3,600 mile walk. Tell us all about it. Where did this idea come from and what do you hope to create through it?

That's a great question. If you revert back, I've had great businesses, ideas, I'm a pretty creative person. And I have ideas and my wife would just shake her hand like, God, not another one. So where did it come from? There's two parts to this. There's the first part of my faith, which is something that's pretty new to me. Now when you're dark and you are below rock bottom, and I think, you know, to be suicidal, I think you have to go.

probably like 30 floors below rock bottom to be suicidal, to want to end your life. And I didn't want to end my life because I didn't, you know, I wanted to die. I just didn't want to be in pain anymore. actually, you know, I enjoy living. love walking outside. I love seeing nature. I love being in my family. So was, I think people who are suicidal from my experience of being suicidal, it's not because I want to end my life and die. I don't, I just don't want to be, I just didn't want to be.

in that pain anymore and I didn't want to burden other people. You just constantly feel like you're a dark cloud in everyone's day. So that's why people effectively lie. They'll say they're fine and they're not because they don't want to put a burden on you. You'd say to me, God, I don't want to speak to Rob because he's always like, he's always got this dark cloud. So, and that was the effect that I think I was having on some people, unless I drink and do drugs. You drink and do drugs, you have this guilt and shame that you carry with you, which makes it even worse. You just become

so much hatred and self-loathing. I knew couldn't go on. For the first time in my life, I think since my nana died, I prayed. I for days and I prayed for nights. Just not really asking for anything. I didn't even believe that I'm a Christian, but I wasn't somebody who read the Bible or probably like full proper Christian, but I did pray and I didn't.

have anything else, you know, I sat in my bathroom and I prayed and prayed and I don't know if it's called look, I don't care if it's called evolution, you always look at the sign. So the praying led me to the ketamine therapy and it led me to a point where I believe that there was some thing out there where somebody was watching over me and helped me. So I did the therapy. don't know.

My wife had mentioned that, I said, my therapist mentioned, but there was something bigger than that inside me that had led me to that. Go and try the ketamine therapy that had led me to do that. And I believe like through my praying and through asking for help and just leading me there anyway. So we went through the ketamine therapy. I did my first session of ketamine therapy. I visualized myself and I was running. I do endurance sports and I felt.

that a letter that I wrote to my family prior to my ketamine therapy of me becoming open and clean with everything that had gone on. I admitted I was an alcoholic, admitted I had mental health problems. And I thought that me doing some of these endurance sports would make me feel proud. like here in the words, you're an Ironman, you know what I thought? It's all right. So what? It didn't do nothing for me. So there's that element as well. Like I wanted to do something where

it was way bigger than me that I could actually feel proud of myself. So during this first ketamine therapy, I just saw myself running, like running and running. And people always say, well, I Forrest Gump. And I went, no, it's like a bit different to that. I was definitely running and I've always had this goal and dream of seeing America. So I came out the first therapy and I thought, well, how many people have run across America?

And that was the first question I had of like, there's like a 15 minute space when you're coming around after, after the ketamine therapy, you don't remember what you are disassociated with during that infusion. So you're over about, like I said, 45 minutes where you're just seeing all these different clouds and colors. You don't remember, it's like a dream. You don't remember all of it. But the first thing I asked myself is how many people have ever run across America? So when I got home, cause my doctor said to me, have you had any amazing epiphanies? And I just said, no.

So I got home and that night I searched for how many people had run across America. There was less than 300. And I was like, they hit me. Okay, I'm gonna run across America. I'm not, six foot three, I'm 220 pounds. So I'm not an ultra marathon elite runner. I'm not a very good runner. I hate running. I suck at running, but something that I do every day now. And I thought, well, if I can do that, I had one pitch to my wife, like with this idea. So.

a couple of days, maybe two days later, maybe after my second session of therapy, it was even a better idea than it was on the first day. I knew I had one pitch, one time to hit my wife for this idea. So I thought about all the cons, all the, yeah, you're to be away from the family. What about your business? How can you do it? So all these kind of like questions I had to have an answer for, right? So I hit with my wife and I said, I need to do this.

If I can meet people and people can see me as an example, that I can literally come back from being at like those beyond rock bottom to now having the chance to do something that I suck at, which is running and walking. It's a walk and run. The reason I say it's walk because I don't want to run the whole way because I'll just get injured probably after a couple of days. But I also at the same time, I have to cover about two marathons a day. So.

There'll be probably like the first part element, which is a running part. And then there'll be a second part, which is a walking. There's also the Northern panhandle of Texas, which is going to be a probably the most boring bit, which will be a lot of running during that part. But then I go into Oklahoma, which hopefully I'm going to walk through a lot of towns. So it'll be, be a lot of walking with people. The goal is to encourage people to come out.

When I've been very, very depressed, I've always locked myself at home in a room and social media. And that's probably the worst thing you can do. What I've found for me, again, works is being outside, even if it's just to the end of the road to walk the dogs, 10 minutes, it's like, come back in and you feel a bit better. There's the endurance sports element to it. There's also the selfish part of wanting to see America, part of it, like just going through America. I love meeting people. I've always enjoyed being around people, talking to people.

And I love hearing other people's stories. Like it's inspired me so much over the years. just to meet people and hear their stories. know, you know, one of the things I talk about if two guys talk, four guys, that four guys might come to eight. And this is open for male and female. This is not people just struggling with mental health. Those people who, you know, we, we march when there's a problem, but this is more of like a walk in the solidarity that we can do great things together.

So this is the very first stage of walk with me brother. I initially was going to donate all of the money to another charity. That was my initial goal. I never had the idea to start my own nonprofit. So where that idea has come from basically is a little bit of research. want to raise a bit of money. I thought if I raise a hundred thousand dollars, I'll donate it to a charity. And I've, I've donated to charities, Nommie and things like that in the past.

November, all those kind of mental health. But when I started to look into not those particular causes, but a lot out there, they were only giving like 50, 60, sorry, below 50 cents on the dollar. So every dollar that I would make, 50 cents of that would go to the actual cause. In some cases, it's only 18 cents with some charities. Some that is even lower than that. Some nonprofits are a complete scam. Not the two that I just mentioned, but ones that I will not mention.

Um, and I thought, well, if I'm walking all that way or running that way, I want to, I want to know every dollar has been spent for those who need it, not for, you know, corporations and things like that. Some nonprofits are pretty scammy. So I well, if I'm going to do it, I'll just do it. Oh, and the other argument I had with some of these organizations, well, where does the money go? Oh, we'll, we'll divvy it up. This will go and I know I want to decide where it goes. Oh no, we don't do it like that. I know. You know what? I'll just do my own.

And that's where my own ID came through. So this is phase one. The phase one is really the community building, the brand awareness, you know, you know, I run a social media agency. So I'm very fortunate that I have, you know, a team of editors and designers and ad managers. So we do this on a database is for other people's. I'm like, well, if I can get a million views talking about mental health, this is completely different than getting a million views for a, you know, e-commerce product.

or a plastic surgeon or something. Well, let's put that to one stage as well. So we've got a team of super creative people. I know content's king on social media. We're going to be documenting the whole journey. So this is phase one. The phase two comes in probably after the walk is where we're starting to really make the difference is where we're going to build out that portal of therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, and hopefully have a portal of resources where

we're going to obviously allocate to people when they need it, they're going to be able to get that help. I truly believe, I believe in my heart of hearts that doctors, psychiatrists, therapists do what they do because they love what they do and they want to help people. They don't do it for the money. Some of them, minority of them might do it for the money, but what we're going to be doing is not asking them for money, but asking them for their time, 10 hours a week, 10 hours a month, five hours a month. So hopefully we'll build a big portal there.

There's the other component messaging is get outside, get exercise, go for a walk. So what bigger way, you know, we can, do that. And then the third element is obviously we're looking to, um, definitely just, just make it a little bit of a change, you know, across the way. I'll be speaking in high schools, as you know, I mentioned today is, know, that 15, 16, 17, 18 year old is very dear to me. So addressing high school students along the way, um, letting them know that.

They're going to go through it over the years that they don't have to give up and there is other ways out and addressing, know, what, is like we've talked about what is mental health. So making them more aware of it. and hopefully they'll see me and maybe it's not me speaking in the classroom. Maybe it's been walking with me for a mile just near the school or something like that.

Well, I love this mission that you are embarking on and that you've decided to accept, if you will, and kudos to your wife for cosigning on it because I'm sure that's not easy. But for whatever it's worth, when you said, maybe there's the selfish component of me wanting to see America, sometimes we do have these desires that are innate to us that seem like it's just for us, but maybe that's the literal motor for this bigger cause. And I just love that.

Not everybody would embark on a literal 3,600 mile journey. I wish you all the best and may it be successful. I'm listening to you share your phases and the plan behind it and everything. And it just reminds me also of my brother, what anchored him was being outside on a beautiful day, sharing with people on an authentic level. And it's obviously too late for him and that will always hurt.

And also when you said it's important to talk about these things because we've lost too many people, too many men specifically. Yes. And I'm so thankful that there's things like this. only wish it would have been something that he could have embarked on. for whatever it's worth, thank you for what you're doing. And if somebody wants to support this mission or connect with you, how can they do that?

Yeah, we're building a website right now. It's just walkmybrother.com. We're just looking really for to spread awareness on it. So share the story. Obviously, I don't know if I'll be able to do one in 2027, but this is something that there might be little short joints of this over the time. So we invite people if we are coming through your town. When I say we, it's a, it's a small RV following me with a small team. But if we do come through to walk with us, support us, spread the message.

That's really it. You know, speak up. And if he's just even telling me, Hey Rob, just come and talk with me. Like I will love, love to hear your story. know there's millions and millions of people who struggle. They feel like they don't want to burden anyone. They don't want to talk about it. It's not burdening with me. So I've never been this passionate about anything in my whole life. It was definitely an epiphany and it was my calling. I'm trying to get everything, I guess, kind of get my ducks in order right now.

Um, the only thing, I mean, the only downside, you know, I'm be away from my kids for two months, but you know, when I think about that, you know, I've got a couple of, I've got an old dog as well I worry about, but what kind of sets me back on the right thing is like, it's way bigger than me. It's just 80 days and it, you know, it's, it's way bigger than me. This thing is way bigger than me. So let's see where it goes. Let's get the eyeballs on us. And like I said, if I've got to walk and crawl across the country,

just to get the good awareness. know, nobody has to die here. This is all good energy. think just bringing people together non-politically, non-sporting, is just human race stuff, right? So hopefully all walks of life will come and walk with us and share their stories.

And if you're watching or listening, know that by now you're looking to follow. So make sure you go to the show notes and click away because everything will be linked there. And we're getting to the end here, Rob. There's so much more we could delve into, but I think this is a wonderful conversation with many takeaways for people who resonate with your message. So if somebody's listening and they're in a dark place in their life right now, they're looking for some sign of hope or some actionable step that they can implement something within reach. What would that be? What would you tell them?

I don't want be corny and say you're not alone, but you're definitely not on your own.

Like I say, for me, it was my wife. So there has to be one person. You must have one person that you can just let them know that you're not okay. And just ask for help. You you'd be amazed when you asked for help, what, how people do respond. There, there's a lot of millions of good people out there that, friends and family that they will help you. So I would say just have the courage, whether it's an email for me, it was an email. I couldn't do it. Like I couldn't call someone. I had to do it via emails.

I get my words out better via an email when I'm trying to have a conversation with someone. So it's certainly something very serious, whether it's a text, whether it's a video chat, whether it's just a phone call, whether it's in person. There's so many ways you can ask for help. It's not like you always go in to see someone. And you know, I know there's a lot of help centers now, but I think just within your network, just there has to be one person that you could ask for, for help. And if you don't have the courage to do it, just do what I did, send them an email.

having that moment of saying, you know what, I will reach out. So I hope you do. If you're listening and you're feeling seen and heard in this moment, please reach out. There's always that one person at least. so close our eyes for a moment. Imagine you have made it the 3,600 miles and it has been beyond your wildest dreams. This is amazing. You did it. What would Rob say to Rob at his lowest point?

some years ago.

What would Rob say?

For me, mental pain is, I'd rather have physical pain than mental pain. know, I think I've, like, I've had broken bones and I've had cuts and gashes and, you know, all those kinds of stuff. But mental pain, think is something that no one should ever go through, especially those kind of like younger men, anybody in particular. But, you know, I'd probably say to him like, it will get better. Don't give up. Pray.

if you're not religious, just believe then it will get better. I promise you it will. There is, there is another way out. That's what I'd say to Rob. I'd say, Rob, there's another way out. You know, there's another way out. don't kill yourself. Don't, don't abuse yourself. Don't put yourself through that. And I'll actually say that you're actually, you're okay. All those things, all those names that you've called yourself is not true. It's just, it's just your mind. You're actually quite a good dude.

I'd probably say that there is another way.

There is another way. Is there something that you would like to say that maybe we didn't touch on any last message for our audience?

think hopefully anyone watching this, you know, like I said, I'm a, I'm a big white, muscular guy coming, you know, talking about this. So I think if I could do it, you know, anybody can talk about it. no problem. You know, if you're struggling mentally, then certainly ask for help. there's doors always that open. My biggest thing is like, just don't, don't choose the wrong door. Please think about it.

The other thing is, you know, I think I've got a pretty addictive personality in that sense. the addiction part. I've become now addicted into, like I said, endurance sports, which is a good thing. So funnel your energy outside. Anything that's bad happening in your life. is, you know, put it in other ways, put that addiction to use in other ways. And, know, I'm like now, like I said, I'm not a runner. I'm to put into work. I'm doing currently about 80 miles a week.

after my race next weekend, I'm doing the Ironman race, that will go into like a hundred mile weeks and a bit more. So I have no idea how I'm going to do right now, how I'm going to run 40 to 50 miles a day. I have no clue. But then I think like three years ago, I couldn't run two miles. So I couldn't swim. And now next weekend, I'm competing in Ironman California. But you know, it's amazing what you can do, what your body can do, what your mind can do when it's positive.

That's beautiful. And I wish you all the luck next week and also next year. I will be following and I am excited for what you're building and what is going to come out of it, predictable and unpredictable. think it's all magical either way. So Rob, thank you. has been an absolute honor. Thank you for what you're doing and thank you for being you.

We'll have to have another chat when I'm on the road next year.

Absolutely. two. Stay tuned for part two. That's it for today's episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at griefandlight or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember you are not alone.


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Nina Rodriguez

Host
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Robb Pollard

Guest