How Art Helps You Heal Grief (And Become Who You Truly Are) with Susie Stonefield

What if the mess you've been avoiding is actually the doorway?

In this episode, host Nina Rodriguez sits down with transformational creativity and grief coach Susie Stonefield to explore the powerful connection between grief and creative expression. 

Susie believes creativity isn't a luxury or a talent reserved for the few. It's a birthright. And in times of loss and healing, it can become one of our most powerful companions.

Together, they explore how art-making without rules, outcomes, or expectations creates space for emotional healing and truth to surface. They move through grief in its many forms: the death of loved ones, identity shifts, coming out later in life, complicated emotions like anger and guilt, and the collective grief so many of us carry in uncertain times.

Susie shares her personal journey through loss and self-discovery, and how those experiences shaped the judgment-free spaces she now holds for others through one-on-one grief coaching and intimate small group "Deep Dives." Her work lives at the intersection of mess and meaning. The messiness of life, she says, isn't something to clean up. It's something to honor.

This episode is an invitation to anyone navigating loss, identity, or the quiet ache of feeling stuck. Pick up the art supplies. Feel what's there. Make something from it. Not to fix grief, but to sit beside it.

This episode explores:

• Why creativity is a powerful companion to grief
• The myth that only “artists” are creative
• Grief beyond death: identity shifts, coming out later in life, and life transitions
• Art journaling as a cathartic emotional practice
• Creating safe, judgment-free spaces for vulnerability
• Honoring anger, guilt, and the full emotional spectrum
• The impact of collective grief in today’s world
• Finding joy alongside sorrow through creative expression
• Why sharing our stories fosters connection and healing

Reflection Invitation:

• What emotion have I been trying to tidy up instead of express?
• What would it look like to create without needing it to be “good”?
• What might emerge if I gave myself permission to make something from my grief?

Connect with Susie Stonefield:

• susiestonefield.com
• Book a Discovery Call
• FREEBIE: Grief & Creativity Workbook
• The Geography of Grief
• Milton Marks Family Camp

Transcript

There's no rule about what you're allowed to feel. If you feel guilt, if you feel grief, resentment, all of those things, I want to invite you to explore it. You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast, where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started.

Hello and welcome back to the Grief in Life podcast. My name is Nina and I'm your host. What if the mess that you've been avoiding is actually the doorway? Today's guest believes that creativity is not just a coping tool, it's a life philosophy. She's a transformational creativity and grief coach who has built a judgment-free space where people are invited to feel everything and make something from it.

There are no rules, there's no fixed outcomes, just the act of picking up art supplies and holding space for our truth to emerge through them. She holds degrees and certifications in fine arts, education, person-centered expressive arts, and grief counseling. And she brings all of that into one-on-one coaching and intimate small group deep dives, both in person and online.

Her work lives at the intersection of mess and meaning, and she'll tell you that the messiness of life is exactly what we are here for. Suzy, welcome to the Grief in Light podcast. Thank you, Nina. That was sort of nice to hear you read that. Well, it's so true, and it is true to the work that you do. It's in that messy middle that bringing the beauty out of some life-altering experiences and...

confusing experiences. So before we get started with your story, I'd like to get your thoughts on why creativity is such a powerful companion, response, antidote to grief in your opinion.

think the main thing is that the words we use are, they'll get us somewhere. know, talking about grief is important. We want to have people that we can talk about it with. But a lot of times what we're experiencing, what we're feeling is so much bigger than words. Like there are words that we just can't find to express the feeling in our hearts, in our bodies.

And so creativity gives us another way to explore it, or actually ways, because there's so many different avenues you can go down in creativity. But if we're just talking visual, visual arts, color expresses something. You know, if you just think about a palette of colors, a cool, cool, dark blue, or black, or red, or a soft, buttery yellow, I mean, all of them actually

conjure up very different emotions for us. And so when we use those to express, it goes to a place that, you know, they say a picture's worth a thousand words, there's a reason it's a cliche, because it has truth in it. And so I think that what I've found anyway is that using creativity gives us a way to

explore what's going on in our hearts and then express what's going on and to the point where we feel lighter because we did that. We created something from those feelings and with those different materials. Absolutely. And what would you say to somebody that thinks, I'm not a creative person, like it's not my thing, it's not for me. What would you say to that person? Well, you've come to the right place is the first thing I say.

Because first of all, I just believe everyone's creative and those of us who feel that we aren't, generally speaking, that comes from someone who told us that early on in our lives and we unfortunately believed it and we're scarred by that narrative and we've carried that with us. I would say everyone is creative and creativity does not mean being an artist.

So I think one thing that happens is people make a connection between a creative person is an artist who does something that's beautiful and should go up on a wall and should match my couch or should be in a museum and an art gallery. And they make a lot of money. like, none of those things are true in terms of being creative. Everyone's creative. You're creative when you cook dinner. You're creative when you dress yourself in the morning. You're creative how you decorate your house or when you write a note.

to someone. So what I tell people is, if you come to me to do some work, but you feel resistance because you feel like, I'm not really creative, then I want you to know what we do together is not about making anything that's art. It's just using the materials, the art supplies to express. It's not about making a work of art.

If it unlocks something and then you find yourself desiring that, go for it. But that's not my purpose in working with people. Thank you so much for that distinction because I do agree when we associate creativity with artists and people who maybe haven't explored their own creativity, they don't associate themselves with either. And that is important to say, you know, the point of

creativity is to create and to unearth and we use these tools to do that, to unearth what's wanting to be said, expressed, what wants to come out, that truth that maybe our minds and, like you said, words are not ready to express quite yet. So that's a beautiful means to getting there. But before we talk about how you get there, where did you first get acquainted with grief and how it has that?

yielded over time to the person that I'm speaking with today? Honestly, I think my first memory of grief is losing someone who was like my grandfather, who's called Uncle Harry, and he was actually someone that my grandfather sort of adopted. They were adults, it was during the Depression, and Harry didn't have a family, and he ended up coming home and living with my grandparents, helping raise my mother, and he was still there when I was born.

and lived with my mom and my dad for a while. And he died when I was 10, and it was a huge loss. So I would say that that was my very first memory. And I never shied away from mourning him. I just held him in my heart. I always have. And I named my first child after him. So when it wasn't quite popular yet, Harry Potter hadn't come out yet. And then in my own...

adult life, I explored and experienced grief myself in two major stories. One was my middle son had some very severe medical issues that started when he was about eight. He was diagnosed with a neurological condition and had to have pretty immediate brain surgery and there were all sorts of complications.

It led to years and years of surgeries that were actually orthopedic surgeries, ending when he was just about 16 and he had his final surgery. But he had 15 surgeries during that time. And it was really a grief journey for me. It was a grief journey for him as well. But for me as his mom, and I know that you've talked to so many parents on your podcast, so people...

Definitely have heard this when you walk alongside your child who's going through traumatic medical experiences You have a life of grief you grieve the carefree child you had before that and you grieve what the future might hold for them or yourself and you're also the rest of your family and And I was just grieving the fact that he had to have these painful experiences. It was very hard

He's fine now, he's 28. But I do think it definitely affected his life in a huge way, which I think he's actually not even grappled with yet. And then the other part of my story is that I came out of the closet when I was 56 after 29 years of marriage.

and to a wonderful, loving person who I'm still very close to. call him my was-bend. And we're really, we're good friends. We're really good friends. He's family for sure. But it was very much a story of grief for me as well because as much as I ultimately knew I needed to acknowledge who I really was, which was a truth that I had really not been aware of earlier in my life, it meant

deconstructing this beautiful life I had actually very intentionally created. And so there was a lot of grief and fear that held me back and that accompanied me along that journey. And I actually remember I had an art studio at the time when I came out. I had had it for like five years. And I remember one night driving to my studio crying because

I was so filled with grief and I sort of felt like, grief, know, like grief was sitting there in the passenger seat next to me. Like, why? Why do I have to do this? Why? And grief was sort of like, because this is your truth. This is your truth that you have to go through this. You have to push outside of your comfort zone to find joy and to find truth.

And that was, yeah, I still remember that. It just really felt like grief was right there with me that day. Well, thank you. I want to unpack so much of that because it's, you mentioned three types of moments that define grief for you. So it's a loss of Harry and this meaningful person in your life. And obviously you were young. So there's that the people in our early years inform our personality and our understanding of the world. And it sounds like Harry was very special. So.

honoring him through our conversation today. Obviously, your son that is, you know, I don't have children, but I hold these conversations in a very special place in my heart where parents grieve the life they thought they would have with their child. Perhaps it's because I saw my parents grieving my brother's life when they realized he struggled with addiction and what this means for the life they thought they would have with him.

and I saw it as the daughter, right? So witnessing all of it kind of from this other perspective. So it really is something that touches my heart and I thank you for sharing that because it is an important exploration of the many ways that we grieve, even if any non-death related ways. So that anticipatory grief, living with the unknown. And then the third one is your identity shift. I feel like identity is such a huge part of why we grieve in every context. So more so when it's

conflicting with our beliefs and our understanding of who we thought we were and then being honest about who we are and holy crap, like we have to make so many life changes that are gonna impact, I don't know, everybody in our lives. So there's a lot there, absolutely. So what role did art play in all of this? And was that how you discovered, for example, when you told your husband, did art play a role in any of that? If so, how did it?

Well, yeah, actually the practice that I teach people is called art journaling and it's mixed media in a sketchbook. It's not about making art that you hang on the wall at all. It's really this very private journal that you, when you're done, you put it up on the shelf in it. It's just as private as a diary really. And I actually was called to it.

when my son was going through his medical stuff. So that was when I discovered it. That's when I started to explore it for myself. And after a few years of doing it just for myself, really, it just felt like to acknowledge and release all this stuff that I was holding, all these feelings, and recognizing this incredible catharsis that I had every single time.

And it was fun also to do something fun and creative with my pain was a little mind bending. So that was fantastic. And I became truly obsessed with it. And so then a couple of years into it was when I decided I wanted to teach other people how to do it because I thought this is such a powerful thing to be able to do for yourself. And you don't need

a lot of our fancy art supplies or to know how to even use them. just, know, that you can, you know, if you have some old art supplies, you can just do this super basic practice, but it goes to such a deep place. So that was what led me to my work. And then when I came out of the closet, like four years after I had started my business and my coaching and teaching, I, um,

I art journaled constantly. I have seven art journals of what I call my coming out art journals that are about just the whole exploration from the very first moments to today. think every so often I'll do one in there now, but I'm sort of back to just regular emotional stuff that I have to deal with.

But my coming out journals are my most precious journals. The way I explored and express my story gives me so much satisfaction to go back and look at and spend time with. when I actually, when I was coming out, many times I would bring a journal or two with me to have the conversation with someone, to share with them because it

It showed them in a way that was not just talking about this story, the depths of my experience, my exhilaration, my fear, my grief, my joy, the beauty of being true to myself, all of it. also my fear of, one of the fears I had was that I would just lose everyone, including my kids. And so it was powerful for people to see the imagery and

and some of the words that came through. think it's safe to say that maybe those journals know a level of honesty that maybe the rest of the world doesn't. And that's sometimes their power. It reminds me of, you know how we often say in grief work, that grief needs an empathetic witness. And for a lot of people, feelings are hard in general, like processing, expressing. Many of us don't even have

tools, especially at the beginning, words for what we're feeling, et cetera. So what I find fascinating about a journaling practice, whether it's through art, writing, whatever type of journaling you do, is that you are your own empathetic witness. And in a way, in a space that feels safe, would you agree with that? Absolutely. 100%. 100%. And one of the foundational principles in my work is validate yourself. And

We are conditioned now, really hugely conditioned by social media, to seek validation from other people. And I think it's a natural desire to get validation from a parent or a teacher, someone or a friend. But we're at a level now where we need so much validation because of social media. And so I want people to pull it back and own the validation for themselves.

You don't need anyone else. And witnessing is a huge part of the work I do, whether it's witnessing yourself or having me be your witness or in any of my group programs, we witness each other. And it's an incredible, it's intrinsic to the whole process and a very powerful transformative element of feeling connected and feeling that

that release and honoring of the feelings. I think honoring your feelings is really such an important part of the grief journey, especially when you live in a culture that doesn't want you to ever feel grief or acknowledge it. It's too scary. It's, you know, hands off. Would you say the honoring is in the act of expression or more beyond that? I'm curious.

I think it's both the act of expression, absolutely, and also the sharing of your story with others and being witnessed. So being held in that. So it's sort of those three elements of it that's the honoring of the whole thing. And vulnerability can feel so threatening for people.

for many people in different contexts. We all have a different threshold and a different level of tolerance. Like you said, one of your biggest fears was losing your loved ones in terms of connection because you don't know how they're going to respond. So speak to both things. Like in your personal lived experience, when you said, I'm going to come out, I'm going to say it for what it is, and I'm going to share my truth with my family. What was the reaction? Was it expected, unexpected? What were things that were supportive to you?

And then parallel to that, this is like a layered question, how do you create a sense of safety for the people that you work with and the spaces that you work with for them to come undone and be vulnerable? Well, for my own story, when I came out, no, it was not expected. Nobody, nobody expected it. My, actually, my husband did. I'd been sort of talking to him about it in obtuse terms for a while. And

So it didn't go the way he thought it would go, but for him it wasn't totally unexpected. But for every other person it was. And that was very, very hard. And I just had to tell them the truth and then be as patient as I could be with their reactions. My kids...

were, what I found with my kids actually was that they were in their, when I came out and for them, their world was so fluid, gender, sexuality wise, that for them that wasn't really that exciting or interesting, you know, the ultimate concern that their parents were gonna split up that they didn't. Which is understandable, yeah. And when I met, when I said expected, I meant more like,

the reaction that you expected from them? Was it kind of what you expected from them? think I tried to not go in with expectations with them. were, I think it wasn't what I expected. They were actually pretty vulnerable themselves and very sensitive to both me and my husband.

Yeah, our middle son, the one I had mentioned before, he actually said to his dad, you always put everyone else first. I want you to promise you'll take care of yourself. And that was just like getting to see my child who was 21 be a real mensch, like a grown up caring person. was, that was amazing. Anyway, my mother had a completely unexpected response. She was just.

really upset and furious and we went down to see her, to tell her, and she held it against me for a really long time that I had told her in person because she felt put on the spot, she was so shocked, and it took a long time. And my having a bit more vulnerability and curiosity about what her problem with me was with all of that. But yeah, it...

I think, you know, coming out of the closet, first of all, you don't just do it once. You do it many, many times throughout your life. And when you're someone who no one ever thought, like my husband and I were the power couple at our synagogue and in our friend community and our family and, you know, no, I had always dated boys. nobody had a clue. I didn't have a clue. That's what I kept telling them. They kept saying, I don't understand. was like, you know, I said,

what do think I feel like? I don't get this either, but I'm finally recognizing it. So anyway, I definitely just had to learn how to be patient with people because it took them time and they also grieved. mean, let's talk about grief. Like my whole entire family was grieving about us splitting up and my mother was worrying about me and my future and all these different things, but.

It wasn't exactly the celebration I was sort of hoping people would have, not then anyway. But I did get married this past April. I did. Last year. Yes, it last year in 2025. Thank you. And it was such a circling around and a healing of that grief because my children were there with just...

with smiles from ear to ear, holding us in their love. My mother was there, everyone danced, everyone celebrated. My husband was there too, honestly. It was really a beautiful celebration. So to me, that was also just a real testament to you get to move through these painful times of your life and create the life you want.

You just have to sort of believe that it's possible. You don't have to do it the way somebody else says you have to. So anyway, that's that. But talking about how do I create space for vulnerability in my work with my clients? It's the number one thing for me is that people feel safe.

to have the emotions they have. So in my introduction, you mentioned a judgment-free zone. And so the way I create a judgment-free zone is I tell people my own story in my lead up to our conversations, first of all, before I even talk to a potential client, they get to learn about my own story. And I make space for crying. And in every program I ever teach, whether it's one-on-one or small groups,

I address crying as something to celebrate, a natural expression of emotion, and that I teach people how to behave when someone in the group cries. Francis Weller, who's a grief educator, yes, he's amazing, he talks about crying and how if you touch someone when they're crying,

it shuts down their vulnerability and it closes them off. And we generally reach out and fawn, it's actually fawning over someone to reassure them that they're not alone from our own space of discomfort with their emotion. So I teach people that we don't do that. And it's not just teaching the people who are the witnesses, it's also teaching the person who's crying who may actually expect people

to reach out and take care of them. But what I basically say is, when you cry, we will hold you with our hearts in the space, but we will not offer you Kleenex and we will not touch you. And so the Kleenex is always there. I Kleenex everywhere in my studio. And you don't have to apologize for crying, which is something people almost always do. Just cry.

cry as much as you want and we're here for you and we will let you cry and when you know afterwards we may say would you like a hug and maybe we'd give you I mean we'll give you one if you want one but we're not going to interrupt you in any way and and so I think the fact is that I name it at the very very beginning of every program and so people really get that it is completely okay.

And then I also talk a lot about the fact that our work that we're doing is not about making something beautiful at all. It's about being raw. It's about being even confused and not knowing what it is, but being true, following our intuition and just going with whatever says to you, use me, do this, put this there. You don't even have to understand what it is that you've created.

And that's fine. And it doesn't have to be balanced in a, or cohesive or symmetrical or anything that would be a term that you'd hear like in an art critique. We're not doing a critique. We're just holding, we're witnessing whatever came through and honoring that with you. Thank you for sharing and going in depth there because it sounds like consent is such a key element here. And if you said,

Would you like a hug? You end with, would you like a hug? Because not everybody wants a hug. We don't assume that people want to be touched. Maybe that's part of the pain and maybe that's part of something that's not safe in their nervous system. So I love that you lead with your story, with your own vulnerability, and you say the things out loud. You say crying is fine. Your physical expression of grief is fine. Like not just fine, welcomed, right? And everything else is consent based. That is so important because

The sense of safety is not determined by a person saying this is a safe space. It's determined by that dynamic that you create, the permissions that you allow, and the agreement as a group. I think that is so important. Safety is not up to the person leading the event. Like, I don't get to define it just because Nina said this is safe. I would love for you to chime in on that. I love that you said that. I think that's...

I mean, it's something that we see a lot in the queer world, that people saying, I'm an ally. It's like, you're not actually an ally unless you're a safe person. And I can identify you as such. And that's a very interesting thing. And same in the world of sexual abuse survivors or domestic violence survivors. Just because you say, I'm safe, doesn't make you safe. So what makes you feel safe in the programs that I teach is that

over and over and over again, I am confirming that this is a place you can talk about whatever comes up. There are so many rules and boundaries that it helps people to feel safe. One of the boundaries is when someone's sharing about their work, there's no cross talk, there's no interrupting, there's no questioning. We just listen and that's it.

And even with groups, I have one group in particular, I've been working with them for like four years ongoing. And even though some of them have been in it for such a long time, at the end of their share, I still say, would you like our reflections? And because if they don't say that, then we're not going to give our reflections. Sometimes when you have shared something from this very vulnerable place,

It's too much to hear from other people about how it affected them. You don't want to have to hold anything more. Like it was enough to be witnessed and held and then you're done. And I give that space to people over and over. repeat it all the time. And I've gotten feedback from my clients that that is why they feel safe. That in other spaces they don't feel safe because it's not held with that.

really clear boundary. And I will say the people who have trouble with boundaries have trouble in my programs because they don't want to have those boundaries. That feels like shutting them down. You know, I want to be able to say whatever I want to say. And I have rules about how we respond to people, how we reflect to people that keeps it. I mean, it sounds really controlled and it's not.

I'm teaching people how to be in a space with each other in a way that is safe and judgment free. And also, for example, when you're reflecting on someone else's work, one of the boundaries is it's not a time for you to talk about your own story. We're talking about this other person. It's their share. It's their work. It's their story. I know you have stories you want to talk about.

That's not the time to do it. And it's hard for people. It's hard to hold back. It's hard to edit yourself. But I'm just really, really clear with everyone. And it's hard for people sometimes, but it also creates that really safe container. Absolutely. And again, thank you for that. It is really hard because there's people that think they need to be agreeable. Like, yes, Suzy, what you said was fantastic. And I resonate with it so much.

When somebody is being vulnerable, that could feel threatening, that could feel incredibly discomforting when somebody shares something very profound with you. Sometimes, thank you for sharing, that is enough. Often that's all we do. That's it. Thank you. If you could share maybe a breakthrough that somebody's had in one of your either one-on-ones or the groups without obviously divulging any personal details, maybe a story that

memorable that has come out of some of those sessions? Well, one of the programs that I teach repeatedly is called the Geography of Grief, and it is a 10-week grief deep dive. And it's open to anyone who has any grief. It can be recent, it can be old, it doesn't have to be about losing a person. be anything.

And it's such an open, safe container that people feel the power to really release whatever it is they're holding. So I'm going to share a couple different stories, but one in particular was someone who her husband had been diagnosed with a rare kind of cancer. They'd been together 30 years. They had adult children.

And he refused to process the fact that he was going to die. I think at the beginning that wasn't clear, but at a certain point it became clear that that's what was happening. And he refused to let his wife and himself have any conversation that had to do with the fact that he was going to die. And so she was not allowed to process any of her grief around him, you know, the anticipatory grief.

And it was very hard to help him because he just wanted to talk about only the positive things. And he was doing all of these different protocols and trials and it was very painful and difficult. And so when he did die, they had never talked about that he was going to die. And so she didn't get to say goodbye to him. She didn't get to do any of that. That a lot of people going through that, a similar kind of story would have had something they could.

some moment where they could have done that processing. So when he died, she had been so shut down, like a tight rock of emotion and sadness that she sort of went a little wild in how she lived her life for a little while. When she came to me, she just felt like, don't even know what I'm feeling. And what she needed to process first actually was her anger at her husband.

for doing his death the way he did, which is so uncomfortable. I mean, who wants to do that, right? She knows that she loved him for all those years. And what she was left with was so much resentment and anger because of how he insisted on doing this. And it's his life, I guess he got to do what he wanted to do.

It just was, she was left with this very, very hard, hard stuff. Plus she was helping her children grieve, so she didn't do any of her own work. So when she first came to me and did this program, her first pass through was like anger. She had to get a lot of anger out. And so her first several weeks of the class was just releasing anger. But once she did, then she got to feel love.

grief, sadness, loss, and then ultimately hope for her future. And so it was a really powerful journey that she went on that we witnessed her. That was a really, really powerful story. Thank you for that. I see a spouse that was respecting her husband's wishes. Yes. And so there's that level of, we also want to be mindful and respectful of what that person wants.

Also, it's okay to feel this anger because in a sense she was robbed of the experience of processing this and all of that comes out. What would you say to somebody about the anger, maybe even guilt that people feel afterwards with processing their emotions? I just tell people there's no rule about what you're allowed to feel.

If you feel guilt, if you feel grief, resentment, all of those things, I want to invite you to explore it. Not to edit yourself, not to tell yourself I'm not allowed to. This is a space where we invite it in because the harder you try to not address it, the harder it's going to keep knocking on the door, wanting in.

It doesn't go away. so, but if you can acknowledge it and process it, be curious about it, make something with it, then you can release it. And that's all it's really asking for is to be acknowledged. And then you get to do that. You get to just let it go through. doesn't mean it won't come back. You'll be reminded of things, but it's such a cathartic experience.

to allow in these really uncomfortable feelings and create like a visual piece that just really is like a portrait of it and look at it and say, yeah, that is exactly what it feels like. It's horrible. And I put it on the paper and I get to let it go. It's powerful, very powerful.

It reminds me in a sense of the journey your family went through collectively to get to the point where in your wedding last year, they were all present with you in your joy because it sounds like everybody leaned in one way or another to their truth. Whatever mixed emotions they were feeling initially, whatever acceptance they had to do. I always say that famous quote, the future is not what it used to be. Grief redefines what our sense of what we thought life would be. And so that redefining in every sense of the word.

when we lean into it, we could get to a beautiful place, but it takes time and then it takes that willingness to go there. So it sounds like that's what she did in your program. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was very really, really beautiful to watch her move through that space. And the other story I wanted to share was that one of my clients who came to one of these geography of grief programs, her husband had died like 13 years before.

And they'd been on a vacation and she'd brought home the suitcase and never unpacked it. And when she came to me, she said, I have the suitcase, I'm moving and I have to deal with this. And I, first of all, just honored, like, I mean, there was no judgment. Like, you know, I'm never going to be someone who would say, I can't believe that you.

didn't take care of this or something. I just said, I think this is the perfect opportunity for you to do something with it. We can all be there in real time if you would like, and you can unpack it, like literally unpack it, and it's also metaphorically unpack it with us there.

What she chose to do ultimately actually was she did unpack it and she took a picture of every single thing that was in it and then put that in an art journal page and then shared it with us. It was like a ritual. She turned it into this honoring of her husband ritual that was a creative act. And it was really powerful that she finally felt like she was in a place where she could do it while she was in this program.

another beautiful example. And thank you for saying that one in particular, because there are people, especially in that first second year of grief, that think, I still have their shoes or their stuff or pictures or whatever. I haven't been able to let go. And I just want to offer that there is no timing, unless there's a pending sale of a home, there's no set timing for when you need to release.

items or if you need to release items. It is very personal and there are many ways to do it. I love that this person chose to make a ceremony out of it of ritual. But 13 years, I want to highlight that because 13 years sounds like an eternity to some people. I have heard of people holding on to things for 30 years and

Six years in, we still have my brother's stuff. I don't really plan on letting it go anytime soon, and that's perfectly okay. It's because that is our timing. So if you're listening, if you're watching, and you're feeling like, still haven't let go of the suitcase, I still have their shirt, I still have their stuff, that's okay. As long as it's not an impediment on your lifestyle, on your health, as long as it's not causing some other form of harm. If it's just a matter of choice, it's...

completely fine. So we want to validate this for you. And Susie, if somebody is resonating with everything that you're saying and they are just so excited to work with you and be a part of the magic that is your events and your one-on-ones, how can they do that? The first thing would be to set up a discovery call with me. So just go to my website, which is suziestonefield.com or unfoldart.com. Both get you there. Click the discovery call button and book a call.

because it's really, talk about witnessing, you get to tell me your story. And I take copious notes and I'm a great listener. You really get to experience what it's like to be heard and feedback I've gotten about those calls is that it helps people to share all these details of their story. We dig in.

You know, you may tell me a bit of your story and I'll ask you for more information. Like, let's go back a little ways. Let's go back to childhood. Tell me a little bit about that. Just hearing back when I reflect back to you what I've heard, you get to witness yourself, your own story. So that's very transformative actually. But that's a great place to start. If you want to do the geography of grief, or you would like to work with me one-on-one, then we will talk about

And whether that either feels like a good fit for you. And my next geography of grief is going to start this June, so I'll be running it from June through August. It's online, so you can join it from anywhere you are. And I do generally have somewhat of an international community as long as the timeframe works for people.

And then I have a lot of other free and low priced options on my website if you're interested, videos and things like that. And in your show notes, there'll be a link to a little workbook I've created for your listeners that are grief and creativity prompts with a very simple list of art supplies that you need to gather to do it.

That's a great place to start. So I would get on my email list, book a discovery call. I take one-on-one clients all year long. And let me just say that the one-on-one work, like if you're wondering, well, why would I want to do one-on-one versus be in a group situation? And I would say that when you work one-on-one, you get to be so...

responsive to whatever it is, whatever your story is and where you are in it. And for some people, what they're exploring is just more private than something they want to have to talk about in a group situation. And that's completely wonderful, acceptable that you want to honor yourself that way, rather than just say, no, I can't work with this at all. For people who are in a group situation,

They tend to be people who are a little bit farther out from their grief. It's not so, so fresh. Because when it's so, so fresh, it's really hard to want to stay with the discomfort of your emotions. I would say give yourself a little time and come back. But folks in my group, for any grief that you're experiencing, that's a great place to come in.

You already know it's in the show notes and you can get started today with the list that Suzy will provide with the workbook and the prompts and then book that one-on-one. Even in my own grief journey, was scary to especially doing it that first time, like, do I say? And how much do I want to disclose and all the things. You will be guided through this process. Suzy will create a sense of safety and comfort and honor your own path. So run to the show notes.

And Susie, we're getting to the end here, but I do want to get your perspective on grief as we discussed is not just death related. It's not just personal identity loss. It's also collective. And boy, are we experiencing some interesting times collectively. It feels hard politically, socially, all the things. How can we shine a light on these dark times in your opinion?

such a good question. And I feel like I am just right there with you in my own grief about what's happening in our world and how heavy the world is right now and life here in this country. So there are two things that I am doing for myself that I recommend for everyone. One is make art.

that is your own protest, your own expression of your outrage, your emotions, what you're seeing, how you're feeling. It feels really good and it feels empowering to do that. And the other thing is have fun with art supplies. Be a kid, play, make a mess, use beautiful colors that bring you joy. Look for...

I don't know, look for classes that feel like, that would be fun and distracting. And in fact, distract yourself from what is going on. It doesn't mean that you're being irresponsible or you're not doing what you need to do, you know, showing up. I'm sure you're showing up in exactly the way you need to, but you also have to take care of your nervous system. And one way to do that is to have joy. And I think for me at least,

dancing, singing, and making art with beautiful colors is that. Leaning into joy helps us get through the hard times especially, and it just really recharges us and refuels us. And you said singing, do you sing? I'm so curious. I do actually. I am a singer. I'm a song leader. And one of the things I do, so I do two main things with my song leading, and I've been song leading for

gosh, over 40 years with my guitar. sing at my synagogue. I sing Jewish music as my prayer. That's my way through. And I love song leading there and lead services and things. And then the other thing I do is I'm the lead song leader at a camp, a family camp that's once a year for families with brain cancer, a brain cancer diagnosis in one of the parents. And so this is a camp where I'm the

head of the music team. have a band called Susie Squid and the Crabby Daddies. Amazing. I will link that to if you have some links. Yes, I will. It's called Milton Marks Family Camp. And we create the container of music and joy. We create the situation so that they can cry and laugh and sing and do it in community and with people who really get.

how they're feeling. It's really the most amazing group of people. yeah, that's a whole other podcast, honestly. We could talk about it. But I love that work. And singing is a big part of my joy. I'm so glad. I feel like I just discovered something. You did. Thank you for sharing that. And absolutely, like singing, dancing, joy, you

It's all part of the process. It's not mutually exclusive just because we're going through hard times. I think it would be especially because we're going through hard times to lean into this. So thank you, Suzy, for everything that you just shared, your wisdom, your techniques, and all the topics that we talked about. And before we close the conversation, I want to give you the floor to share maybe something that you want to include in the conversation that we haven't touched on or any reminders before we close. The floor is yours.

Thank you. I would just say everything we talked about was right, was just what I wanted to say. Well, I guess what I would say is, invite it in. Whatever you're feeling, let it be. Just like when grief showed up on that drive to the studio that night and it sat in the passenger seat while I cried and drove, invite it in.

And you will feel better ultimately, I think, if you let yourself be with it, do something with it, and then release it. Beautifully stated. Final question. What would Suzy today say to Suzy right before she decided to come out to her family?

You never know where the mess will take you.

I love it. I love it. Love it. Thank you so much, Suzy. It's been an absolute honor. Thank you for what you do and thank you for being you. Thank you, Nina. That's it for today's episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at griefandlight or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates.

Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember, you are not alone.