Life After Sibling Loss: Identity, Faith & Following Your Destiny | Destiny Rael

What happens when grief doesn’t just take your person, but reshapes your identity, your faith, your career, and your sense of what’s possible?

In this episode of Grief and Light, Nina Rodriguez sits down with Destiny Rael, a trauma-informed life and grief coach, group facilitator, and sibling loss survivor, for a deeply personal and expansive conversation about what it means to live with grief and still create a meaningful life.

Destiny lost her brother Joseph who she describes as her best friend, creative partner, and fellow musician, two days after his 34th birthday in January 2011 to a sudden aortic dissection. She has spent the years since learning how to carry that loss forward without leaving him behind.

Together, they explore the duality of grief and joy, the evolution of identity after loss, and how purpose can emerge in the aftermath of devastation.

We explore:

•  Sibling loss and identity: why this type of grief is often overlooked 
•  The coexistence of grief and joy in a purposeful life 
•  Destiny’s story of losing her brother Joseph, and their deep sibling bond
•  The significance of sibling bonds, shared music, and inside jokes 
•  How grief reshapes identity, especially for creatives and performers 
•  Navigating faith, spirituality, and questioning God after loss 
•  The connection between childhood trauma, abuse, and grief 
•  The shift from music career to trauma-informed grief coaching 
•  Supporting the mind, body, and spirit through grief recovery 
•  The role of grief in life transitions, relationships, and personal growth 
•  Tools for support: grief groups, coaching, and creative expression

Connect with Destiny Rael:

• Website: destinyrael.com
• IG: @destinyrael
• "Joseph's Destiny" & Music
• YouTube Channel

If you're navigating grief, sibling loss, or a life that no longer looks like the one you planned, you are not alone.

Transcript

took me a long time to be able to say this because there's still a teeny part that feels like I'm betraying my brother to say that I can live purposeful and meaningful life. They're married together. The grief and the joy and the sense of purpose and meaning and hope, they coexist. And I'm living proof of it. I know that you are living proof. And it's not about getting rid of grief, but I do know that it can live with you and life gets bigger.

You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast where we explore this new reality through grief-colored lenses. Openly, authentically, I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Grief in Life podcast. My name is Nina Rodriguez and I'm your host. Today's guest is someone whose story feels incredibly close to my own.

Destiny Rael is a trauma-informed life and grief coach and a group facilitator who helps people navigate life after loss and life transitions that change absolutely everything. After the sudden loss of her brother Joseph, her grief became the heartbeat behind the work that she now offers, helping people move through pain with honesty and compassion and begin rebuilding a life that fits who they are now.

What makes this conversation especially meaningful to me is that we share a lot of parallels in our personal stories right down to the name of our brothers, her Joseph and my Joseph. So this one feels personal to all who have experienced grief and sibling loss. Let's get into it. Destiny, welcome to the Grief and Light podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you for that beautiful introduction and just having me here. And I've been wanting to connect with you so long because of that.

parallel and I'm sorry that it's this that's bringing us together, but I just admire what you do and the work that you do and the conversation. So I'm excited to be here with you. Thank you so much and fully received. I am so grateful that we get this opportunity. It's been a long time coming. Yeah, that we follow each other on social media and I was just like, gosh, me too. Every time you posted something, our stories are very similar and it's not just about Stimulating Loss. There's a lot here, but I want to give you a

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know, the opportunity to share with us, how did your relationship with grief begin? How has it evolved into what it is today? Great question. You know, when I now have an understanding of grief, I instantly, of course, just go to the loss of my brother. And I could reflect back at different points of my life and other losses and even a childhood loss when I was young, one of my best friends and different experiences throughout life that we have.

grief, but hands down, what brought me to my knees is the loss of my brother. And, you know, that just turned my life upside down and completely shifted not only myself, but my life and the work I do, how I show up in the world. My brother Joseph was my best friend, you know. We came out here to do music together. We had dreams together. Our friends were the...

you know, connected. We were really intertwined. We lived together when we first moved here. And it just was so sudden and unexpected. And so it just kind of pulled the rug from underneath me. And so that would be the direct kind of new understanding of what grief is and or my experience in relationship with grief for sure was the loss of him.

Thank you, and we honor your brother through this conversation. We were chatting before and I was explaining that this episode, for obvious reasons, feels very personal, but hearing your brother's name, Joseph, which is also my brother's name, really hits home. And that has me a bit emotional. So understandably so, because it just reminds us of our losses. And you lost your Joseph in his 30s as well, to my understanding. Tell us a little bit about him, not just the way in which he transitioned, but...

more who he was and anything that you would like our audience to know about, just like a tidbit of who he was in your life and what your sibling Bond was like. Yeah, thank you. I love when you're saying his name. In fact, I have a tattoo, his signature, it's Joseph all over me. Now tattoos. I didn't have any tattoos before he passed. Now I have a display of honoring him and that is one of them, his signature.

wanted to acknowledge that. And, you know, I love when I get a chance to talk about my brother, especially with people that have gotten to know me after. And in fact, I also call him Jobo. That was when I was little, I couldn't say Joseph, so I said Jobo. So I still actually called him Jobo up until he transitioned. So it's cute and fun when people say Jobo, keeping him present. My brother, mean, truly, when I tell you,

best friend, soulmate, partner in life. We, as I mentioned, came out here for music and that was what he was really pursuing. And if anything, your audience were to take away. I mean, the world is to listen to his music and I don't know if it's possible maybe to share that link, but I have it on my website. Absolutely, yeah. But continuing his legacy because he was so gifted in his ability to write and share his story. So it's almost like if I were to,

tell you, here, I want you to get to know my brother. I would want people to listen to his music to get to know his story and his voice. And he was such a poet in the way he wrote his music and his songs and the soul in his voice. Yet the lightheartedness, you my brother back in the day was kind of like the Jack Johnson, Dave Matthews, he loved Bob Marley, like all of those influences. So in many ways you feel good, but it touches your soul and really cuts to

the core of you through his music. So that would be the best way, I would say, to get to know my brother. But just so funny. don't know if you really, I'm imagining with our parallel relate to this, but my brother and I could look at each other literally and just instantly just already know what we are thinking. If something happened, whether it's a family dynamic or even just at a restaurant and we could just bust out laughing. And everyone in our circle, like my mom and...

family members and friends would always say, like, you can't, with both of us, it just, you can't get in there. We had our own world, own inside jokes. I mean, even just talking about it, it's...

something I miss deeply, you know. So just that it's not just the obvious memories and the obvious things, it's those little nuanced inside joke moments. And so I could literally have, I should have a podcast just on our memories and the fun times, but yeah, my brother was just such a hearted.

soul. I almost had an inside joke with everyone and that's the beauty. I get so many stories over the years about him or something they did. But yeah, I would love if people actually listened to his music to really get a little insight of him and how he contributed to the world. Thank you so much and I will absolutely link his music in the show notes and I would love to listen to it myself. Jovo sounds amazing, like such a light. And I'm getting teary-eyed with you because I know exactly what you mean about that.

stare across the room where you just, there are no words and yet you speak volumes and that language kind of goes with them. Not kind of, it actually does go with them because there's nobody that you could look in that same way who would just get it with the understanding that they had. So sharing that aspect of your beautiful sibling bond with him. And you say we came here for music, where is here and where did the story with the music begin? Yeah.

Great question again. Thank you. So we came from a musical family. My dad is a very gifted singer, songwriter, artist, engineer, producer, musically inclined, and my grandfather is an opera singer, and then other family members. And I was the one performing throughout high school. And even when I was young, I was like, I'm going to be a famous singer. I'm going to be an actress.

My brother was always behind the scenes. He was great at sports, great at so many different things. When he turned 20, he wanted to start taking guitar lessons and that's when I got him for Christmas that year. My parents bought him his guitar, which I have right in front. I still that guitar. My brother just picked up anything. If he picked up golf, next thing you he's a great golf player. You pick up a guitar, next thing you know he's playing and performing.

When I say that we came here, we grew up around different places. Born in Houston, Texas. My brother was born in Virginia Beach actually when he was a little baby, but we moved to Houston. Then we came here to California when we were young. Then we moved to the East Coast. And then we actually both came back out here to really pursue music. And I was the one outward and ready to go, but he was the one slowly behind the scenes going to open mics. In fact, I have.

but funny memory that when we were living together, he would sneak out and I would see him with his guitar. I'm like, where are you going? And he would always say, well, I'm not telling you because I know you'll show up, which is true. So it took a minute that he started building his courage and doing these open mics. And he, I would say, had a lot more courage and a willingness to put himself out there, even if there was just me in the audience.

And it's something that I carry to this day. mean, speaking of like doing this work and starting a YouTube channel, think of my brother in that way. He would be putting himself out there. He would be, you know, showing up even if one person was in the audience and just that bravery that I tried to bring forward. That's kind of where it started as far as the family ties of it. My brother just surprised us all because, you know, that was like a

quiet talent he had that unfortunately just got cut short. But I will say on that note, right after everything happened, my brother just turned 34. His birthday was January 6th and he passed January 8th of 2011. So two days after his birthday and it was aortic dissection. So it was natural causes. It's behind the heart, the aorta.

tour. had no idea. mean, it was just like, in fact, we literally were writing a song together that week. That was my last text to him. When are we finishing the song? So there was a lot there. I've never been able to listen to that song, by the way, that we were writing. But I was also working in the music industry at the time. I was a recording studio manager and was blessed to be able to be in a recording studio environment. We used that facility, all his friends.

and they un-add different vocals and different tracks that he had on his computer. And so we collected all of that and then built his latest music, even things that weren't finished. And I just feel so blessed. Even at times I can't even listen to it. It's weird. Sometimes I have to and I'll listen over and over and then I can't, literally cannot listen. So it just depends on where I'm at in my grief in the moment. But I feel like that's such a blessing that I have in my...

family has that we still have his voice and his music that he was in quite literally in the middle of still continuing and writing. And so to be able to continue his voice and his music and collect that and be able to record it in a professional way, like kind of fulfill a little bit of a dream, even though it got to cut short was, I would say a blessing in that time. Your family sounds amazing. what a blessing to have that.

moment in time captured and in a way his song continues through you. had a guest who said we get to carry their love light forward and the way that you're carrying Joe Wo's love light forward is so meaningful and it sounds like he just gives you that nudge, that brotherly nudge like you got this, you could do this, put yourself out there and it's so empowering and I absolutely can relate to those moments of discomfort where you just kind of feel their or hear their voice in your

your mind telling you to just keep going, encouraging you to do more and put yourself out there. It sounds amazing. And sibling loss is often not something that's talked about. He was your only sibling. And that changes our sense of identity, how we show up in the world, our dynamics. How did you experience your own sense of identity after his loss? Yeah, that is such a powerful

concept of, I was this sister and we were only 15 months apart. So he was just a part of my existence. And again, us being so close and best friends and just intertwined in our lives together. So to have that just abruptly cut off, changed everything, even musically, you know, my whole...

career was about pursuing music. And that is one thing I do think he would be kind of mad that I'm not singing as much anymore. I'm like, I know, I know. But that identity, I mean, if you would have talked to me that time, you would have identified, you're a singer, you're a musician, you're pursuing this career. And that just cut off. I've never really been able to come back to that part of me at all. And even when people say, your brother would want you to.

I'm sensitive to that and I don't love hearing what, you know, when people tell me what he would want. But there's some truth to that sentiment, I feel, just because he was my biggest fan. And in fact, you know, the last time we were physically together, as I mentioned, we were writing a song together and he was like, Destiny, you're the best singer. And he was like my cheerleader. But I have not been able, it's like that part of me truly died, you know, inside. It just this...

I don't even listen to music the way I used to. It just feels like a big chunk of my identity shifted. As far as just sibling, and just for clarity, do have with my dad and my stepmom, I have a half brother, but he's like 20 years younger, so I didn't grow up, and I don't want to dismiss him. But from my upbringing, it was my brother and I. And so that's why it feels that half of me just got cut off in my life.

I just, feel like I walk around limping. Spiritually, I'm limping because half of my body is gone. That's how it feels like showing up. And I hope that answered the identity piece because- does, it does so much because it's, I've identified myself so much in that it feels like an amputation. I try to explain sibling loss to other people and it's like, it's literally a part of you is missing. And yeah, you also-

mentioned that you've experienced other types of losses and other types of grief, but I could see how this one was just like the marked one and the same because I've lost other relatives before, but my brother was different. This was just completely, it just rewrote the story of my life and it sounds like it did to yours as well. 100%. And just another thing to add to that is also, you know, I do a lot of grief support groups. I'm a grief support leader, as I mentioned, and

interestingly because they're divided by relationships. So one group would be sibling, one group would be widow-widower, one group would be a parent grieving a child or a child grie- or you know an adult grieving a parent. And I for the longest time refused to do sibling groups because I just couldn't go there. I finally, you know after several years with this organization I did and that ended up being its own healing. But what's interesting, the reason I bring this up, when I was doing the

with a widower group, there was something about that life partnership and the dynamic of a spousal relationship that I actually identified more with because I felt like my brother and I, know, I've been married, divorced, Max and I are great friends, married, divorced, know, friends come and go, relationships come and go, but that was the solid.

relationship and I all my brother and I would joke that you know I'm gonna be wailing them around in the nursing home and we're gonna be playing card games and that it was guaranteed and I'm not by any means encouraging divorce or all of that but you know relationships do change but that was never going to change so it felt like my life partner that I that was supposed to be for the rest of my life that you kind of commit to in this you know

from our babies, like we're in this together. And that just felt like, again, kind of an amputation. while, yes, I definitely connected through the sibling loss dynamic when I would do those groups, surprisingly, the spousal partnership, there was just something about that dynamic that I found myself relating to even more because, that's what I feel that's, you know, and I know there's different dynamics with siblings and

you know, from what you've shared and I will speak for myself and that it's a blessing that we were so close and I know that's not always the case. But with that understanding and having that sibling relationship, it's kind of like you're just born, you've got your born best friend, you've got your born life partner, you've got your born, you know, soulmate really, that's how I felt. So it's a very significant loss that I feel like the sibling dynamic doesn't

get credit for, you know? Absolutely. And thank you for sharing your perspective. I could totally see that, how it does resemble that partnership aspect in a marriage. And it's not that they're the same. It's just more like that buddy, that person that

speaks that common language that you feel a different type of closeness with. And yes, absolutely, there are siblings that actually don't get along. And that's part of the complexity. And there is grief in that as well. I could relate to the fact that you were close. And I was close with my sibling too. So it definitely feels like that loss. And from singing to supporting people through life and grief, how did you decide to make that shift? Yeah, thank you for asking that. And I can answer it very specifically because it felt very

just one of those awakening moments. Yes, I was actively pursuing music. Now, after my brother passed away, when I say like the singing part, I just couldn't come back to. But I was in that music business part for a long time or still a few years after. And a lot of things shifted. mean, things that mattered to me, things that I wanted, I am referencing that I'm gonna be a famous singer, but there was this

pursuit of just the industry and trying to make it and do the rounds. And I just didn't, it just didn't matter anymore. It didn't have the same value. Of course, I was in that for just even paying my bills and just a career. I'd build a career even as a studio, recording studio manager at the time. But there was, I had started volunteering. So here in Los Angeles, there's an amazing organization called Our House Grief Support Center.

that do grief support groups, I cannot recommend them enough. And in fact, I always say I wish I actually would have been a member or I didn't go as a group member. just, when I started to feel ready, I started volunteering as a grief support leader and I still do that work to this day. But there was just something in being in these groups and it's volunteer and only bring that up. It's not like a paid position.

volunteer and here I felt more alive, quite literally, in this setting, being a part of their grief story because it was a, you know, two-way street. Even though the setup is a non-disclosure, so they don't know my story or they don't know anything about me and that's okay. There's just something in that setting that I felt really called to do more and more. I've always been

drawn to service. was a crisis counselor for a rape and domestic hotline for years. I was actually a trainer for them as well. They're an organization called Peace Over Violence, another amazing organization. That's another part of my story actually, but would share my story. I did counseling for women in domestic violence. that part of me was still there. think

that, and I'm just gonna be honest, the singer in me was like, no, I've gotta be identified as a singer. So I never really allowed myself to fully go in in the support and coaching and counsel. Now I'm doing the grief support work. And there was just this moment, I remember looking at this magazine, it's called Billboard Magazine, and it was like the women's, know, empower issue. And I was just like, what am I doing? This isn't.

what I want to be doing. This isn't where I'm called. I'm called over here. And so right then in that moment, was already looking up coaching schools for years, but at that point I just started that track. I ended up going for life coaching and grief coaching and trauma inform, just the path. And then of course, wouldn't you know the studio I was managing shut down, literally they shut down. And I remember thinking, okay, wait, this is faster than I thought, but.

but it really felt like this opening in the path. And that was in 2017 or 18. And I've just now been spiritually, yeah, but professionally working as a coach and counselor and brief support leader. And it's just completely changed the trajectory of my life. But I will say this, I've never felt more on purpose. And it actually makes me sad to say this because

I'm very sensitive. do not think like, oh, look at me now. Look at the purpose fulfilled. If I could go back to January 3rd or that week of my brother in 2011, 100%. So this isn't from a place of, my destiny is being fulfilled. But it is something that's been extracted from this deep pain and this life altering loss in my life that did shift.

my purpose and now I absolutely feel aligned, feel fulfilled in what I do. And it's kind of crazy because I would have never in a million years thought, you know, I was going to be a grief support in people's lives, but I'm honored to be doing that work. yeah. Thank you for showing the full picture of the evolution because I'm always curious about how did somebody's life pivot into this work.

I've only met maybe a handful of people who said, no, I really just always wanted to do this. It's usually some life event or some moment of clarity. And it sounds like when that Billboard magazine, you were just like, no, I'm really being called in this other direction. And I appreciate that you mention how your sense of identity as a singer, you had to kind of come to terms with the fact that like,

once we embrace this shift, it's okay to be both and or just pivot completely. That is something that a lot of grievers struggle with myself, including when I was in the beginning, it was like, no, I'm supposed to be doing this. I've invested my time and energy into this one path of life, but I feel pulled towards this other one. So at what point do I decide to go both feet in, commit to this new direction?

That answer is very personal. I love hearing these examples. It sounds like ultimately it led to a path of alignment. That's not to say that maybe singing is not in the future or in some other capacity, but it just sounds like you're really fulfilling your purpose. know, there's even grief in that identity shift. Now for me, not so much that I felt like I was hanging on a little bit to that old identity because that was a tie.

And I know music will, you know, here and there actually did a tribute to my brother years ago and sang his songs. And I would love to maybe do that again. And there's been little moments, but just the identity and pursuit completely changed. But now that I've expanded the work of just how grief is woven in so many parts of our lives, even if it's not the death and loss of someone which hands down that life altering death shapes our lives.

but even the pivots that we experience in life. I identify as this person or this is career or in this relationship, but I'm feeling pulled over here. And oftentimes what keeps us from moving forward in where we're called is the grief in the letting go or the grief in that transition and that.

pivot and I see that all the time, even with people like this is where I want to go, whether it's a literal move or it's just something that brings them joy, there's always an element of grief. And that's why I say like, everyone should have a grief coach in life no matter what, because there's, you know, we're always being invited to release or let something go or something is let us go and there's pain in that. And so I think for me with the music piece, you know, it wasn't as devastating because the

You know, my brother's loss overrode that, was parts of me was still hanging on because I had to kind of grieve that version of myself too. Absolutely. Identity loss and shifts are a huge source of grief. You talked about being a life grief and trauma informed coach. I love hearing about the slight nuance distinctions between the three. What is the difference?

for the audience to understand like what is the importance of having somebody who's a life coach versus a grief informed coach versus a traumatic coach. And I know that they all kind of do a Venn diagram at some point and they all kind of merge in some areas, but I would love for our listeners to understand that slight variation in that point of nuance between the three. Yeah, and it's so interesting that you asked that question because for a long time, I felt very, speaking of split, I felt...

my even my work I was either life coaching and I have my little page I do my life coaching here and then I have my grief coaching here and so I'll answer that in those kind of those separations However, what I've come to and where I'm at now is kind of what I touched on The way that grief is woven in our lives that I feel like we're living this thing called life in which we are we are trying to move forward in our lives

whether we are grieving the loss of and the death of someone, that's kind of its own category that needs its own particular processing and space for sure. But then all these other parts of grief that show up. so I almost want to expand the trauma informed to grief informed that I wish everyone was grief informed to be able to support somebody going through life. So.

When I did have it separated, life coaching, would say would be for that person that was ready to start making changes and shifts, or even that pull. know, something's changing in me. I don't know what's happening. I want this thing that I can't seem to have, or I want to get to this place that I don't know how to get to. And so we look for forward motion. And yet, oftentimes, we are stuck.

whether it's just life circumstances that keep us, whether it's financial or relationship, et cetera, or even just those internal dynamics that we haven't addressed in our lives. So, you know, in general with life coaching, we are focused on the forward space and getting you from A to B, if you will. But grief coaching or the grief aspect is absolutely where the focus is around

the grief. And this is where it gets just so intertwined. I've had clients that are quite literally at the same time about to get married and then they find out their father passed away. And how do they hold the space of this new life that they're about to start that brings joy and grief, you know, their father. And that's a few real stories that I have in helping to navigate that. And I would say what the grief is really giving them the space to

move through that grief in their life and to like hold all of that at the same time and give that permission to grieve and meet them where they're at in their grief journey and also that this doesn't negate that. Now it's not always that black and white. Sometimes people, many times just come to me, I imagine you as well, and they're just needing to grieve and be in their grief for their

you know, their loved one. And that's where we orient it to, and that's the focus is honoring their grief. And then, okay, how can we help them integrate their grief as you and I have done? I'm still grieving, grief is still a part of my life. That's why I these podcasts. My brother's still with me. My grief is with me and as I live my life. But the grief piece is the focus. The trauma informed is really just awareness of that

that space and that sensitivity and especially in the life coaching because, you know, there's desire to get people to move forward, set goals, get ahead, high achieve, you know, all these things. But if there's other things that are present or going on, whether it's emotional healing, old wounds, grief, the trauma-informed awareness around the nervous system that, yeah, cognitively, they might be ready.

and actually want to move forward, yet there's something in their body that's not safe to do that. So from that trauma-informed lens, we would work with that safety piece, the body piece, and help them set those goals from kind of a regulated mindfulness, and then, yes, moving forward.

I hope I touch there. It's such a big conversation of life and then I can see you nodding. So I'm sure there's like agreement there. But now I would say that, well, yes, because I specifically support people that are going through, I hope it's okay to swear, but this is what clients tell me. Like when the shit hits the fan, guess who they call? Even friends, know, when the life disruptions and yes, not just bereavement, but

Just life, lost the job, got divorced, or even just internally burned out. I don't know what I'm doing anymore. I just can't get up out of bed. I'm not inspired. All those moments. And now it's like, OK, we're going to look forward, but we're also going to be present with where you're at. And in my experience, there's always a grief component, even if it's the grief of just parts of ourselves and our own identity that we have to honor and grieve and support.

to help shift and integrate forward. So now it's like, it's all, all together. Thank you, because I, in my belief system, and it's one of those things where after you talk to certain people, you realize, my gosh, these things are absolutely intertwined more often than they are not. But there is a nuance. So thank you for clarifying those three pillars, if you will. And also, if people wanted to work with you and...

all three capacities or in any one of the capacities, how could they get a hold of you and how could they work with you? Yes, thank you. And I do want to say one thing, please, just from a sensitivity piece, there's absolutely a difference in the bereavement and the death of someone versus, you know, other losses and not to dismiss or deny that. But that piece, I don't want to just blend it all in.

When we have experiences, we're talking about that amputation, if you will, just life-altering loss from someone that we love, that deserves a specific space of honoring that person in their life. And so if someone did come to me, that would be a big part of the work that we do together. so honoring that person, the memories and...

way that we can bring that person forward in their life or if there's estrangement there and that happens a lot too. So I just wanted to be sensitive that while yes, I'm saying it's all together, it's also unique to the person that is seeking support in that moment and how they could come to work with me. actually just recently started a YouTube channel, finally putting myself out there telling, hearing my brother like, get out there. Clearly I talk so much, so just why not hit record.

But I do have my YouTube channel just talking about these very things, know, grief and rebuilding your life after loss. And I try to bring some coaching tools because I think we like things that will help us sort of navigate. So it's not just conceptual, but also I try to give, you know, whether it's a journaling exercise or, you know, tools and resources. So that would be one thing that they can just come to, which I'll give you. It's under my name.

But then, of course, on my website, I do work one-on-one privately with clients. That's the main thing. I've done things over the years, know, group programs, and I still do that. But everybody's story and experience is so unique that I find myself coming back to that one-on-one space. And so that's really the main way that I work with people, at least currently, is one-on-one. I call it my sunset to sunrise.

journey because that's what it is. We're coming in from kind of the darkness and I'm going to help you walk towards the light, which it's like the exact name of your body. And I love the name, the Sunset to Sunrise. That's exactly what it feels like. It's like seeing that light again. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, and I'll send you anything if it's supportive. What's website? So our listeners can hear the website if they wanted to get in touch. Yeah. So it's destinyreel.com. So it's my first and last name.

and then they can look at my work with me page. I also have a journal and just different things that I offer. And then my brother's page, I call it Joseph's Destiny. So I'm continuing his destiny. So that's on my page as well and it's dedicated. And it's interesting because when I was building my website and I did it all myself at the time, that was the hardest page. It was the most important page, even though it has really nothing to do with a business, but.

It was the hardest page for me to build, obviously, but it's the most important page, and that's on my website as well. Joseph's Destiny, that is beautiful. I love that. And of course, it'll be all linked in the show notes. I actually took a look at your YouTube page. It's fantastic. You have some beautiful takeaways and really meaningful offerings. I love the way in which you share your wisdom, hard earned through experience, professionally.

experientially all the things. Like you really bring all of yourself into the work that you do. And one video that I was immediately drawn to was grief and God, because that conversation comes up so often. And I'll give you some examples of conversations that I've had. One of them was this person lost their person. I don't want to give too many details. They lost their person to a substance-related cause. And they said, we were God-fearing people. We did everything right.

why are we being punished? So that's one conversation. That's one example of the type of conversation I hear often. Or we tried to save them. Why did this happen anyway? I used to be really into this faith and now I don't even know if I believe in God after all. So there's all these questions that come up spiritually after loss. I would love your take on any or all of these or just what's your take on grief and God. Yes, thank you. I had a feeling you were going to

When you said, you saw it, just felt that. And it's such a big conversation. I can speak from my own experience and just very similar, you know, those clients and people that that relationship with their grief and relationship with God, how it completely changes. I do think that it also, it's worth noting what that relationship might have looked like before. For me, I...

You know, my dad is a minister. I grew up in the Christian household. And even that was starting to shift and I was exploring, but I always felt very connected and was, you know, studying all things, spirituality and religion. And I have another video on there that kind of ties that why vision boards hurt after loss because I'd done vision boards and, you know, all of these things and you're manifesting your destiny. Well, that was not on my vision board, you know.

That's a good point. My brother, not even in the realm of that. So when you have a faith or you have an understanding or something that provides you comfort and that completely gets destroyed, again, it's not just the grief of the person. Now your entire foundation of your belief system, things that perhaps...

provided you comfort or hope or even a sense of control. Like, yes, I can manifest my destiny. I mean, my name is Destiny. I use that like every day, you know, like it's your destiny. And then like, really? So to answer your question, I think that depending on where people come from, start, if they're coming in with they already had maybe understanding a relationship and that completely gets also cut off that.

can feel devastating because now you have to examine everything you thought you knew, everything you thought you believed in, everything that you thought was a truth and may not be anymore. And for me, when I say years, I don't even know that it, I mean, I'm still figuring that out, but I would have told you I had a strong relationship with God and spiritual teachings and vision boards and.

all of the things and I just, couldn't even say the word God for a long time. I just felt betrayed. felt, again, just this, like, what's the point? Does this even matter or mean anything? So I, and I hear that too with clients, just this betrayal or this punishment, like you said, that you must have done something wrong or this person did something wrong. So you're wrestling with all of.

these questions. And that being said, I've also heard people that had no connection, didn't believe in anything. And now they're reaching and longing for that connection and discover new ways in which they connect to something much bigger than themselves through their loss, through their death. And that's really powerful. And I have to be honest, that's actually what has

brought me back to my own relationship with what I do call God. This is watching near-death experiencers. It's different now. It's a different relationship. But I find that the people that didn't believe, like the atheists that had the near-death experience, and now, I mean, I just eat that up because it feels, again, experiential, but still connects to, okay, yeah, maybe there is. It's not the dogma. It's not the...

even the scriptures, all of those things I think can be beneficial. But to wrap this because it is such a big conversation, while I think grief is a relationship, we also have to look at that relationship with, I'll use the word God, but whatever that is and how that changes and how your grief changes that. that is a part of the process. And for me, it was a huge part of the process and pain and grief.

of that shift in relationship. It's just such an important point to bring up because loss, big loss changes, shakes up our foundation, including grief is mind, body, spirit, emotions. It impacts every single aspect of our life. And that's one that gets rocked pretty hard for a lot of people. And there's a lot of assumptions for what happens thereafter. You touched on this just now that some people can go either way, but.

I've heard like, no, then you become more religious or you stop believing in God. And I say, no, it shakes up your foundation and there's an opening to try to understand what just happened differently. It certainly happened to me. I'm so glad you talked about NDEs because that was the first time I started hearing stories of NDEs on YouTube and algorithm did its thing. Next thing I'm being fed like all these NDEs.

And quite frankly, it was the only thing, not scripture. We still did the religious rituals from our faith. And that felt grounding in that it was a moment with our family together praying that was really nice and comforting. And yet what gave me some kind of hope or a possibility of an answer to try to understand this loss differently was these stories of near-death experiences because...

for reasons that we could just make another episode about this. I did thank you. I would do thank you for touching on that because the people who are maybe listening and struggling with this aspect of their grief, I just want to validate that it is a normal occurrence and check out Destiny's YouTube channel. And that particular video about grief and God is really good in just normalizing this part of the grief experience. There's also the grief of abuse

in early childhood, I leave it up to you how much you want to say, but that's an aspect that is very front and center right now in our collective conversations. And it's coming up to the surface. So it's much or as little as you want to say, I'm being vague on purpose so that you can disclose whatever you feel comfortable with. thank you so much for that sensitivity. And I know exactly what you're talking about. And I shared off camera that I'm an open book. this used to be a big part of

again, my mission to share until it just, I feel like got trumped by the loss of my brother and then that became my mission and I guess advocacy. But yes, I was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. was sexually abused by my neighbor and his two daughters when I was about five years old till about nine years old. So...

you know, just touching on that because it does tie into the grief and the sibling loss because when you have that, you know, secret that at that time no one knew but, you know, I'm very careful. That's the only thing I'm not an open book in talking or sharing anything of my brother's experiences. But what I will say is that it's like this shared that solidified the bond even more.

just my experience. it is a part of grief and it is relevant to the conversation to me. But that was a big part of my childhood. I did end up telling what happened that completely just changed my life as a young girl because next thing you know, I've got police officers, psychologists, just the complete dynamic shifted in my life and up until I was like 18 when he finally got sentenced. So he did go to jail and there was that quote on

quote, justice, if you will. But after that, I don't know what it is about my personality, but I've always felt this calling forward, OK, this happened to me, and I want to be a part of the conversation. I want to support others through that, and I want to help people. And in that time, I felt very, very called about speaking your truth. Because when you experience something like that,

And this did show up, speaking of music. I mean, yes, I'm talking about I wanted to be a famous singer, but I felt frozen a lot. Like I couldn't fully sing or, you know, now I like understand just speaking of like the trauma informed and how that shows up and some of that trauma quite literally where it was blocking me from doing certain things because my young little me was told not to tell, you know, and was told not to.

tell this truth. And even when I did, that was questioned and challenged from lawyers, et cetera. So that became a big part of wanting to help those free themselves. Because I think part of, I want to say the release of me just sharing what happened and telling and then getting that justice was a huge part that I'm not carrying that.

I was able to tell and you're right, right now there's such all the stuff coming in the front and center, people that have been holding on to this trauma and they've never been able to share and if they have, they're not believed. So that shows up in people's lives and relationships and the impact that it has on them. So I did a lot of that work for a long time. was the speaker for RAINN, you know, for the rape, abuse and incest survivor organization.

been an active part of that community and organizations as a mentor and a speaker and specialist and quite literally, again, talk about identity. When my brother passed away, I remember because I was still doing crisis counseling and the night that just he didn't show up at work and that's how I just went to his apartment and next thing you we have a corner and it just was truly a

tragic scenario and I remember them handing me a card for a crisis counselor. And I'm like, no, that's what I do. I just remember specifically thinking, like, how am I, even though it was for a different context, I just didn't understand that how am I now needing a crisis counselor? They gave me a hotline that I could call that night if I needed. And I just, couldn't even wrap my brain around that.

So I share that to say that was the, I never went back. I never went back to that work. couldn't, I didn't, I was a crisis counselor the week before and I just, it just again kind of stopped. Now, similar to music, I don't mean to imply that that it's not important to me. You know, it's actually come up a lot again from a trauma-informed lens. I've worked with clients and that have had some of.

you know, those experiences, but I guess the mission kind of shifted. where it ties for me with grief as I was touching on is that my brother, he was so proud of me. I remember calling him after I did like my first speaking thing and he just was proud that I was able to share my story in that way. And I know I had his support in that. And speaking of just certain things, like there was just things that I, like only he would understand. And so it's a part of the pain.

And I'm being kind of cryptic, but I'm just gonna say it, like even just with all the Epstein files and all this stuff coming out, and that's been a little bit triggering. I mean, he'd be the first person I would call. Like, do you remember that, you know, I would be able to share my experiences and that's a part of the grief. So even, of course, the happy memories that you share with your sibling or your loved one, but just family dynamics, things that you go through. And I miss that tremendously, being able to.

just talked to him or him to even just see how I've been a part of the conversation. So it's all woven in, like I said, you so it's no longer these separate things that happened to me. It's all lumped in together. Thank you so much for your openness. I know that's a hard thing to talk about. And if you're listening, if you've experienced any type of abuse, also a very difficult thing to hear. And also,

This is why I have this podcast. It is to shed light on these topics from a perspective of honesty, openness, and de-shaming what does not belong to us because it is in the speaking and using our voice. And in your case, you use your voice in every sense of the word it sounds like. singing to speaking up and advocacy and supporting others and creating awareness and educating all the things.

So thank you for what you've done since the beginning, whether intuitively, whether as a response to all of these challenges and life experiences, or whether as just like something beautiful to bring beauty and music to this world, because this is how we affect change and this is how we validate each other's experiences. So thank you so much for that. The trauma aspect, I just want to point this out that absolutely, you know, when we're going back to the life coaching versus grief versus trauma, to put it in incredibly simplistic terms,

trauma, I see it often as like ways to create safety to so somebody can move forward. see grief support as more like the tending aspect and the honoring aspect and then life coaching, which I don't do, it's everybody we all need. I'll go back to that Ram Dass quote, which is we're all just walking each other home. We all need somebody to help us do this thing called life. So all of them put together, you are a fantastic resource and

for everybody listening, you can already tell that this is somebody that, you know, has really embodied this wisdom and this knowledge. So if you're looking for somebody to connect with, to help you through the next phase in your life by all means, call Destiny. It is your destiny to call her. Call Destiny. I love that. That has a nice ring to it. Like call your destiny. I'm here on the other end. Your destiny is calling for you. I'm, nothing is absolutely calling. And I want to be mindful of our time because,

I would love to continue the conversation with you, whether in another episode or an Instagram Live or something that we can collaborate on later. But for today, I give you the floor to maybe include something that feels important to include in this conversation. And if not, we can begin to wrap it up. Yes. And first of all, I feel like we need definitely more conversation. just your questions and the way you're leading the conversation is just so.

you're so gifted and so it's an honor to talk to you and I feel like there's still so much and I want to know more about you and your Joseph and you know relationship other than what I have seen on social media so it's genuinely I'm honored to be here and I would love to continue to talk to you and and I'm sure we will have more conversation. What I will touch on when you were talking about it kind of brings full circle about the life coaching, grief coaching, trauma informed.

using my own example, and I'm just gonna give like something specific. If a client came to me and let's say they were struggling, like I wanna be a singer, but I'm not able to sing. And if you just get them to like, well, why aren't you putting yourself out there? Put out that song, go record the song. And maybe you do those things, but the trauma informed lens or even the grief informed lens, we might explore even if it's unrelated and that whether it's the questioning and being present to help them

deepen that into like for me, I would have probably taken myself to that block and in the body where it feels that tightening and quite literally in my own story, anytime I would have to sing and I'm not even exaggerating, I like had two neck braces, I would get strep throat. mean, story after story that when I would have these opportunities, fortunately at that time when I was young, I kind of had an awareness around like, oh, what is this?

Why do I keep getting these, you know, throat aches or things around the neck? So I had my own sort of understanding and tried to explore that. But from the coaching perspective, that would be that signal that we would go to if, you know, with the client, let's say. So I just wanted to touch on that, that it's not just about getting the person to do the thing. There's so much other layers. And when we can approach that, then, yeah, the external

action or steps to take or the life coaching and you know going towards your dreams will naturally be a byproduct of really looking at the deeper root of what's happening and so when I say I'm a life coach, yes it's all of those things but it's really with that deeper understanding and wanting to help people get to the root and the grief and to support them there and that can show up in so many

different ways. You don't even realize something or don't connect that dot. But like I just shared, I had to deal with that and I had to start to heal those saboteurs. mean, my body was literally protecting me and stopping me by getting sick or having a neck brace. And so really looking at that. And of course, I had to handle the physical condition. I would never just say, hey, take your neck brace off, you're fine. But it's metaphorically speaking, looking at that.

deeper in how your body's protecting you and keeping you from that. So I just wanted to touch on that piece of it, that it's layered and it is mind, body, soul, and bringing that together and helping people just orient themselves. I do believe, and it took me a long time to be able to say this because there's still a teeny part that feels like I'm betraying my brother to say that I can live in a

purposeful and meaningful life. And I can just feel it inside. I feel this protection of wanting to say, kind of want to stay in the grief with my brother. They're married together. The grief and the joy and the sense of purpose and meaning and hope, and they coexist. And I'm living proof of it. I know that you are living proof. And it's not about getting rid of grief. It's not about just overcoming.

I don't know that you overcome grief, but I do know that it can live with you and life gets bigger because now you have this, I always think of grief as just like bombarded your life. It just moved into your house and rearranged your whole entire apartment or house and the furniture and you fight it you try to kick them out and now it's here, but now you've rearranged it in ways and you can still redecorate and you can still have, you know.

new things that you build in your house and now you have this thing that's just is a part of you now. And it is possible to quite literally live your destiny. And not always easy, but I'm honored to be a part of someone's journey in doing that and having people like you that supporting them as well and doing that. So. Beautifully said. Grief is the roommate we never asked for. Yeah.

You know, we learn to live with it one way or another and in a way sometimes helps us really find our voice again and with agency. Thank you again for your wisdom, for everything you shared with us today. I hope our listeners are walking away with some nugget that is helpful to them in their grief journey and of course all the information is linked in the show notes. And to close out the conversation, final question, what would Destiny today say to Destiny after the loss of Joseph?

that hit. The destiny today, it's interesting because I just turned 50 and I was 35 and there was like these milestone.

what I would say to her.

is that it's okay to grieve. It's okay to, because I felt like I just like my life stopped and I felt like I wasn't living really. And I guess I needed to go through that, but I would tell her that it's okay to live again. And it doesn't mean that I'm betraying him and it doesn't mean that I'm

forgetting him and it doesn't mean that he doesn't live through me and with me. That's what I would tell her for sure.

Thank you so much, Destiny. Thank you for all you do and thank you for being you. Thank you. That's it for today's episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me via my Instagram page at griefandlight or you can also visit griefandlight.com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you, and always remember...

You are not alone.