How to Find a Job

The Formers talk about job-hunting and going back to school after leaving the movement. Rejection, discretion about the past, and taking on too much are touched on.

www.thedailyformer.com

Transcript

Angela 0:14

Welcome to The Daily Former, a podcast about how to get a job. In this conversation, we'll be talking about how much is too much responsibility, if and when to disclose your past, and if work friends can or should be friends in real life. With me, I have Jamie, Lauren, Brad, and Sam. My name is Angela, and my first job out of the far right was working at a florist and doing multiple side jobs to make ends meet.

Jamie 0:47

my name is Jamie and my first job out of the far right was at a gravel pit

Lauren 0:51

my name is Lauren, and my first job out of the movement was working in scaffolding.

Brad 0:57

My name is Brad and my first job out of the movement was at the provincial liquor store.

Samantha 1:02

My name is Sam, and my first job out of the movement was as a beverage director for this fancy cafe,

Angela 1:09

Thank you. So, Jamie and Lauren, I have right off the bat initial questions for you. Coming out into those jobs, did you feel like you had to disclose anything about your past?

Lauren 1:22

For me, no. It really didn't matter. I was told literally the first day of the job, no one cares what you look like, how much you swear, what comes out of your mouth, as long as you get the work done and you go home in one piece. So it was pretty simple minded that way.

Angela 1:35

Nice. Jamie, what about you?

Jamie 1:37

Yeah, pretty well the same way. it was a gravel paint landscape center, male dominated. Nobody cared as long as the Customer was in and out. That's all that mattered.

Angela 1:47

Sam, what about you? Did you feel like you had to disclose anything right off the bat?

Samantha 1:52

I danced around it. when I was in the interview, one of the owners was from South America and she had asked what my hobbies were. And I told her that I followed fringe politics. And she thought I said French politics, and I never corrected her,

Angela 2:08

Did you have to come up with, like, fake stuff? Did she ever ask you, what's going on in French politics

Samantha 2:13

at the time Maureen Le Pen was a whole thing that was going on, like, I was technically following French politics, but only because there was a fringe movement going on. But as, as time went on in there, these are all just normal people, like baristas and bakers and people that are waking up at 3am and you know, minimally political people, that just want to like, make their earnest money and, be friendly. And I realized that I had no idea how to interact with people in a normal person way because I had just left the movement and you know, they were talking about like food alternatives. I started calling people soy boys. I would say you're an incel. Like I was such a dick. But I had no idea. you know, you have that thing where you're like, I know all this secret information or like I know all these secret trends and really I was just an asshole. And it got really bad. As time went on. Someone kept threatening to bomb my car. And so I would like compulsively check the parking lot of my job to see if someone was there to bomb it. And one day I went out and I was so stressed and so anxious, like the skin on my hands was peeling off. I was so nervous. And I would pick it. I went out to smoke a cigarette at my boss. came out to say hi because they all knew that. I was quitting smoking and he came out to kind of like talk to me and comfort me and like see what was going on. And I was in the middle of having a mental breakdown. when he put his hand on my shoulder, I thought he was going to attack me. And needless to say I did not last much longer. They were very diplomatic But that day, I ended up crying and telling my boss everything. I was like, I used to be in the far right you know, your wife misheard fringe politics as French politics, and this is actually what went on, and now they're hunting for me, and I live with gay people, and I think that they're gonna try and hurt the gay people that I live with, and like, I, Let it

Angela 4:07

was really early, Pretty early. Wow. So did they just say sorry, hitting's not allowed here? Like,

Samantha 4:15

no that

Angela 4:17

on violence?

Samantha 4:18

I was so cynical about the whole experience, like someone else who had a little bit more experience than I did and was also a man, but he was hired at like a slightly higher salary than I was. And I was like, well, fuck you. You're only hiring him more because you're a man. I just. Was incapable of being okay. So after that little breakdown, I went to work the next day and right before my day started, the owners pulled me aside and they were like, Hey, we think we're going to go in a different direction. it's just not working. We need something different. And I did a lot of good work for that company, but It was just so clear. There was no amount of talent that I could have had that would have saved how extremely fucked up I was.

Angela 5:05

That sounds rough. It sounds like a really tough time to get through. Where you kind of feel lost, like nobody understands what you've just come out of and the complex dynamics that we know can sometimes be the violent far right?

Samantha 5:22

Yeah. Well, and then after that I got a job, a woman was opening a cafe and I helped her open it. and this was like a little bit after, like maybe just under a year after. And that was when the unicorn riot discord leaks happened. And I still hadn't told anyone at my job and that activated my paranoia and I became a fucking mess. But yeah, it, it was really, really lonely and really scary. And I felt like everyone knew something was off. And then I became nervous that it was too obvious that I was former far right. And I tried to confide in some people, but I didn't know what to tell them. And I was still doing the, like, I was a women's coordinator this person thought I was attractive I was still doing that thing where I still kind of thought it was cool that I went as far as I did in the movement because I had nothing else to cling on to I had no identity otherwise.

Angela 6:19

Shall we say you were still a little braggadocious?

Samantha 6:23

I was I was pontificating quite a bit. No, Lauren.

Angela 6:27

you, Brad? did you feel like you had to disclose anything about your past?

Brad 6:33

for the most part it was working in a warehouse there's a couple of guys there that were ex cons and People were just minding their own business. it was still that kind of crowd of people. after a while I ended up getting another job, working in a hospital cleaning floors overnight and that was pretty lonely. There was nobody to talk to really, aside from myself. So people probably thought I was just some weirdo that went around, talking to myself overnight, which is fine. I think a greater point for me was that these jobs added a place where I could go to think. about it was that I was doing before. And also that I had risen to management level and in a career job before that, and I lost everything. I was back working service jobs in a fricking hospital cleaning up poop and whatever else overnight So it was really, really starting over. I think that's a point to, to note you know, I was really keeping to myself at that time, trying to just work out everything,

Angela 7:29

I had such a different experience with coming out of prison. I felt like so much needed to be cleaned up in my life. I walked right in places and was like, this is my past, just got a person for a hate crime, this is what I'm trying to do, this is why I want to do it, take it or leave it. that's how I approached most jobs that I tried to get. I want to ask something though, did anybody feel like You would be putting yourself in danger, or it would be dangerous in some way if you did share that information with the people around you from whatever way, like being found out, you know, where you are of rejection of.

Lauren 8:12

Actually, for me going at it from a bit of a different angle, yes, there was a concern there, because one of my former affiliates from the group that I was once involved in, was actually involved in the same union as I was. And even though he did formwork, I did scaffolding, so the chances were pretty low of seeing one another, but at the same time, I also didn't want, word to get out because God only knows men can be drama and gossip queens as well. And I just didn't need word getting to him. this is what Lauren does for a living now, this is the company she works at, and so on and so forth.

Angela 8:45

Right. Did it ever factor in for you that you were doing work in a space where generally you don't see a lot of women out there representing that you may have like set yourself up to be around potentially? Others that knew you.

Lauren 9:02

So, this person that I'm thinking of right now he's the only one that I could think of that actually was in the union at that time otherwise, no, not so much. trade work was a huge thing like, even when I was still in the movement, a lot of the guys did do that stuff, but a lot of the time they were non union, independent contractors, and, you know, it's, it's kind of funny, just, bit of a side note here. It was kind of a blessing in disguise at the time. So I had asked a couple of them if I could come work for them and they're like, no, that's not woman's work. But at the same time, do I want to rely on those fuckers to keep me employed? No, not really.

Angela 9:37

I mean, if you weren't treated fairly inside the movement, you are not going to be treated fairly outside of it.

Lauren 9:43

yeah, it's like, let's set ourselves up for more failure and abuse. Why not?

Angela 9:48

Right. Well, I mean, we got on the path of making better decisions for ourselves. Thank goodness. Sam, Jamie, did you feel like it would be dangerous if you spoke about your involvement or that you were trying to come out of it.

Jamie 10:03

Not, not really, but I generally keep to myself, but I mean, it did come up two times during work. One of the guys, one of the kids, cause we hired a lot of summer students, his dad was an old school rude boy. So we were talking about music. And we'd always go on about music and what his dad listened to and when all, and it came out one time and he's like, well, yeah, I kind of figured like the way you talk the music you listen to and your tattoos kind of gives me an indication Of where you're coming from. I'm like, yeah, but I'm not like that anymore. He's like, oh, I totally know. But, you know, I appreciate you being honest with me This is even funnier. Another 1 of the kids who I still talk to with today. I literally watched him grow up through high school and university. He's into old school punk and we were talking about music and whatnot and I said, Hey, you know, I used to be, white power skinhead and I said, I don't really buy into that shit anymore. and he's like, Oh, I know. And he came over and gave me a hug, which is kind of funny if you think about being in this landscape center. This young kid like 16, 17 coming up and hugging this dude in the middle of the landscape center, but it was really good. it was nice him being receptive and saying, you know, I know you, you had this rough past, but you admitted your mistakes and I appreciate where you're coming from and where you're going. So it came out, but I didn't, I don't mention it per se.

Angela 11:17

Gotcha. that's a nice share. Thank you for sharing that with us. Sam, what about you after that mental health crisis at the first place? Did you feel like I can't tell anybody anything because it's too dangerous to disclose?

Samantha 11:35

You know, it's, very weird because almost every normal job that I've had since then, a piece of media has come out where I am highly publicized. So, I, I didn't want to tell anyone, like I never wanted to tell anyone I hated myself. I hated that I had this past. After those two cafe jobs, I had realized that taking on any responsibility that required my normal ability to take on that responsibility. I couldn't do. I did something similar to Brad and I got a job at a target and I was just like packing shelves. I was like an HR generalist for a little bit. And my first interview came out, and I remember, bracing myself when I went to work. I didn't tell anyone about my past. but I was really trying to over correct with it. And when I went into work that day, I truly expected everyone to be like, yeah, we watched this program that comes on at midnight But nobody, saw it. No one knew. I was really happy about that. And I started slowly. Opening up to people about it. And more than anything, they would say wow, like I would have never guessed it. I'm so glad that you're out of it. And then some people were like, wow, your life's like a movie, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, a super low budget movie. I wouldn't really say this is glamorous. But yeah, there were also times where I should have. I eventually got back up to management and there was a guy that, that hit on me and I rejected his advances and he Googled me to try and get my social media, I assume, and saw media that I had done. Specifically, they saw the transcripts of the Charlottesville lawsuit. And then he started going around. I can't tell you how many people would text me Hey, this guy brought up all these news articles about you and your past and stuff and people I'd never told and I was like, I'm so sorry. if you have any questions, I'll answer it. You know, I'm, I'm really ashamed of my past, blah, blah, blah. And they were like, what are you kidding me? that guy's a fucking asshole. it's clear that's not who you are anymore. that's your story to tell. How dare this guy come in and do all of this stuff. it was, a really, really tumultuous thing I'd never experienced it before. Anytime I've opened up to people, they've always been surprisingly warm and kind about it. And this guy who was pissed at like what I wouldn't fuck him, decided to,

Angela 13:56

Try to trash your whole life.

Samantha 13:58

and actively told people that I was currently a terrorist at that point in Pittsburgh. I lived in Pittsburgh and I worked blocks away from the tree of life synagogue. I stopped going outside. I stopped going on walks in the morning. this is when we were on a little break in life after hate and I had no one. The only person I had was my boyfriend at the time. And I, I know for a fact that he's my ride or die because Of how much care he put into me. I felt like I had nothing and I felt like I was nothing and this person really went out of their way to let people know that I made this mistake and that he felt that I would never change. And the only the only thing that saved me was the fact that everyone he told ended up texting me saying, No, fuck that guy, I still get upset when I think about it because I never did anything about it. I just left Pittsburgh.

Lauren 14:53

Well, it sounds like everybody else actually read the articles, unlike this guy.

Samantha 14:58

yeah, that and I think also a part of it was the fact that whenever anyone did confront me about it or mention it to me, I was willing to take. Responsibility and accountability and I was like, Hey, you know, I'm sorry. I never told you. If you have any questions, if you don't want to talk to me anymore, I completely understand. I was pretty self deprecating and pretty self flagellating And I think that also helped people realize like, okay, she's not that person anymore, but I still felt worthless. Even though everyone was pumping me up, it didn't matter because it's such a deep, deep shame.

Angela 15:32

even just listening to you share, I like can see that it's still, you know, affects you in some ways. I'm glad that it didn't go any further and that you are where you are now and things are different. I want to shift us, a little bit to something that you shared, Brad, kind of, built this little bridge here for us. Did you feel like you had to take shit jobs? Like, pun intended, I guess. did you feel like you had to start at the bottom of the totem pole? Or did you have, a career or something that you would have done otherwise had that not been the circumstances?

Brad 16:16

I don't think I really had a choice. I mean, yeah, you do you, you apply for the job, but I had been doxxed towards the end of my, you know, involvement in the movement. There was public crap about me, you know, in the internet. So, you know, places I was applying to you know, obviously one Google search and. Nope. So some these places, I guess, maybe didn't do that. or, or didn't care. Like, I mean, really legitimately like cleaning up bathrooms or running a floor waxing machine, like, does it really matter what's in your head? Not, not really. So there's that, but then I'll be honest, any kind of like jobs or good opportunities that were coming my way at that time, like. was being, I guess the universe was preventing me from doing anything. I had been like kicked out of the United States. When I tried to go on vacation, I had lost you know, some of the headway, even with my job at the hospital, like we, I had a a hate crime cop come there and talk to my boss and say that he was investigating me So yeah, then that, so that job ended there. Really what brought me back and I know Jamie and I both have this in common is, is, is the school. Like as soon as I signed up for the school, I made that my number one priority. I mean, I was still working in the, in the liquor store, but my priority was that school was that degree because I felt like I was getting something from it in the sense of being part of something that was positive and nobody really knew, like we talked about this before, like, nobody really knew who I was, but I, I feared they might, but, but nobody really knew, like, these were young kids that were well outside of my generation, so. Didn't really register with the majority of them. So yeah, I mean, jobs are hard. Well, let's just put it that way when you're coming away from this stuff, because there's stuff around corners that you, you don't know that you're going to have to deal with, but you, you do have to deal with in a sense of. It's part of the life that you lived before and you've got to, you got to, you got, you have to move on. So you got to take it as a okay, that sucks. I'm going to have to like, what are my other opportunities, right? I had to completely throw away my whole career in security. That's where I had, you know, worked very hard at getting supervisor and then management jobs. And then it came back down

Angela 18:39

feel you so much on this, especially the topic of school being like a saving grace. When I came out of prison, like, I got out in May and by August, a fall semester was starting. I felt like I've got to find something that I have a chance, like maybe if I don't have to deal with people so much, I can get hired, you know, I had these various scenarios in my head. So I started out with graphic design originally and convinced myself I can work behind a computer. Like, I don't have to deal with the public. So maybe I'll find jobs. And I also was doing student work at the time for financial aid. So at this, you know, little college I knew the deans a few of them pretty well, because they had to interview me just to. Make sure I was like, okay, to even let in the school and to attend classes, but working as a student worker in admissions, I got particularly close with this one Dean and one day she asked me a question. I will never ever forget because it changed the trajectory of my academic life and therefore my life in general. It's what landed me. Where I am today, she asked me about my major and why I chose it and I just spilled it out and was like, but at that time I was very raw. Still. I was going through therapy at the time doing group therapy. Like, I was. just in the throes of working out what I had done. And I was emotional and I explained to her, basically, I feel like such a piece of shit at this point in my life that I'm just trying to make sure that I can support myself. Like, this is the only thing I could think of, but I'm not really particularly interested in it. And She asked me if I could sit there and explain to her with no boundaries or past attached to it. If I could do my dreams and do whatever I wanted, what would I. Be majoring in and I told her social work, because I felt like that was as close as I could come to sharing my own experiences in a way that would help others. And she basically told me that I was the 1 stopping myself from my dreams that if I live my life like that. That wouldn't be a way to live basically and encouraged me to change my major and to not worry about the potential obstacles until they were right in front of me, you know, for social work. I was like, but I'll never get license. I just got out for a hate crime. Like, I'm never getting licensed and she just encouraged me not to let that stop me at that moment. So the next day I went and changed my major. And It would have been such a different path in life had I not had that encouragement and done that. And then school became a safe place for me to work out the way I'd been socialized. You know, I was afraid, my brain stuck like this. I'm never gonna stop. Hearing these terms in my head, or thinking a certain way, or feeling afraid of certain people. And I walked around the college talking myself out of those things. Why do you think that, Angela? Why did you just think that about that person? Did they do something to you? This is what you were taught, but have you seen any of that? And school was the place that really led to present day me.

Samantha 22:32

Also as a question, Angela, before I asked Jamie and Brad this also, how many degrees do you now have, Angela?

Angela 22:38

I mean, three, because it takes three to get to a master's. Ha

Samantha 22:43

Just wanted to put that out there for anyone thinking of going back to school. I I had clients when I was an exit and I'm sure that Brad and Lauren have to that like the idea of going back to school is really scary thinking that you can't do it. Jamie, how many degrees do you have? Like, what's your school education situation? What?

Jamie 23:01

I have an undergrad, a master's, and I'm currently in a PhD program. So, I mean, it's doable. I mean, yeah, it's scary, but I mean, do it.

Samantha 23:09

And Brad, what's your education situation.

Brad 23:12

I majored in naturopathy. So I'm not kidding.

Angela 23:16

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Brad 23:18

No, I have I have some college in, in like security studies. And then I, then I went and did a degree in criminology. And, my pursuit will continue when I have time which

Samantha 23:30

We'll see.

Brad 23:30

don't know, don't know when that when that will be, but I plan on getting a master's and probably do same like Jamie to pursue that in my older age. I'd love to be able to teach. So that's that's one of my life goals.

Angela 23:43

I think that this goes a little deeper than that, though. Like, Jamie, you shared about being in school for a while. And that that was something that you and Brad connected with. It's also Something that Brad and I connect with because it takes a long time to do this work with academics, but it also seems to parallel life and career and work it seems when we talk out all the things. That that we're going to school for the reasons whether it's for us to learn or in order to have a career or a certain job. I think that parallel we experience. There is. almost the consequences of who we used to be. We now have obstacles in front of us because of our involvement in the movement, but we also have this place that offers us so much. It's almost like liberation and freedom because we're not told now what we can learn, what we're allowed to read,

Samantha 24:47

Was there ever a time when going back to school felt like you were kind of hiding and choosing school so that you could like keep learning and never have to like, I have a friend who's like a career student basically. And they're pretty much doing it because they don't know what they want to do with their life. did it start that way?

Jamie 25:07

yeah, I mean, going back to school, I just got tired of what I was doing prior to going back. And to me, I just wanted to do a different direction. you know, for me, it was just direction switch a mind switch and sinking myself into it really helped me sort of escape from the ideology. I really didn't do any reading on it or thinking about it for over a decade. Until Brad and I started chatting, and then I started to look back into it which, which has helped from a personal aspect, but from an academic aspect, because now I can offer my own opinion on writing and researching things.

Angela 25:44

awesome. I love that about school. Like, school for me was a way to, really check myself and say, is this stuff that I was fed from my family and then the movement true? Was I wrong this whole time? And having the space and the sense of safety. And ability to be vulnerable while letting those different ideas and thoughts and just new experiences. I learned so much in school that changed. perspective.

Jamie 26:17

Yeah. Like, going from, you know, a closed mindset group to a group of people that you can get along with, and are essentially the same as you. You have the same outlook on, on. I don't know, movies or fashion or music or whatever, it's amazing thinking, two years ago, I hated you, but now I realize that we actually have things in common, and I can sit and have a coffee with you, and I can bullshit about school, or I can bullshit about home life, or we can talk about the most stupid, asinine things, but, you know, there's no, there's no White power bullshit in it. It's just a common person that you have things with. And for me, that was like, holy shit, I can actually have like a normal conversation and not talk about the same garbage that I've heard over the last 20 years. Like it just blew my mind. You know,

Angela 27:11

one of the main things that I hold on to in my life is how good it felt to let Humanity back in to my heart to my mind to who I was at a person It felt like I was being Re

Jamie 27:26

that's brilliant. That's yeah, that is exactly it.

Angela 27:28

What about you, Brad? We've talked so much about school and the impact that it's had on our lives. Like, do you disclose your past at school? Like, how do you navigate that kind of stuff?

Brad 27:43

Well, I know throughout the first bit of my degree, no, I, I didn't talk about my past. However, I did meet some of the most influential people that exist in my life. Now, during school, I met Dr. Barbara Perry. I met Ryan Scrivens. You know, and and many others. There's there's just a whole laundry list of them. But, you know, they afforded me chances at being like a research assistant at being involved in some of their like projects that they were doing. You know, it just, and same with life after hate, they did the same. They, they opened their doors to me as a volunteer at different times. and that's kind of all come because I was in school and I was navigating that, that journey. And I wanted to like. See where it would take me and see what all I could take in from it, you know, because I think that's what young students, not all of them, but like students that just go right from high school to university, they don't necessarily have this type of drive in a sense of like, I just wanted to bake all this stuff in because I had no Experiences that were good like this before in my life. So it was kind of like, you know, this is just a real positive situation. Towards the end of my degree, I documentary came out about my life. So, yes, then I guess my peers knew who I was and what I was doing. But further than that. I guess I started doing presentations even at my school to my peers about you know, I had mixed in, you know, criminological theory and talking about like life course perspectives of not only was I involved in the movement, but I was also involved in crime for a good portion of my life too. and criminal elements and people and all that. So, studying crime and criminals also kind of helped me in my journey as, as an individual as well. it was really helpful in this sense of trying to understand how I landed where I landed. And I started to realize more about myself that, you know, has taken me into my career now which is Yeah, I would say largely school was the probably one of the best choices I've made in my life. As we usually are asked, as who we are, everyone in this conversation, to talk about the worst things in your life, sometimes we need to really like take a minute to think about The best things that have happened in your life.

Angela 30:17

yes, yes, yes, I do you the applauding emoji, but in real life. So let me also ask into academics was when I was taught to think critically and to really dive down into myself into the world around me and how others navigate the world and. There was this one course that I took that was called the ways of knowing and it was during my master's degree and there was so much that I was able to walk away with that was so much more valuable than the student debt that I now have, but that was a really big thing for me was the, the ability to critically think the ability to be accountable. And those things paralleled my, the rest of my life as well, like, towards the end of my studies, I did. Like you and that's when I started using my own narrative and presentations and this is who I am. I took several speech classes. So I had, you know, opportunities to share with my peers. there was nothing that happened to me at that time when I shared that I was like, oh, my gosh, I should have never shared this. Like, I gained so many friends that I never, you know, could have ever even thought of having Lauren, what about you? I know you read a lot. You're into learning and growth. Have you ever thought about going to school?

Lauren 32:01

so I have done college before and I actually did it while I was still in the movement. I remember taking that course thinking, oh yeah, like, this will be easy, I'll make friends here, which I did. The only thing was, it was kind of hard to keep, like, the two lives separated, I found. And, you know what, I found going to class every single day was actually kind of a relief from the life that I was living. As far as future plans with school, I have been thinking about doing maybe an online degree in criminology, not only because of my past, but also because I own way too many books about serial killers.

Angela 32:37

I took a course on serial killers. So what would be your ultimate goal for that for yourself?

Lauren 32:45

For me, I think I haven't really thought that far ahead to be completely honest. It's just a kind of a long time interest and also like, because of my struggles when I was in high school, I couldn't go off and do a four year degree like that right away. So my grades weren't good enough and my attention span was nowhere near good enough at that point. But you know what? I mean, I'm 33 now. I can apply as a mature student and just see what happens.

Angela 33:10

That's right. And learning never ends. I know I sound like a cheesy PSA, but learning doesn't end. It's a lifelong thing. You go anytime and learn what you need from it because that's what matters.

Lauren 33:25

Yeah, exactly. actually, going into more detail, I went to college for woodworking and home renovation originally, so my mom had actually chosen that career path for me, because she's like, if you're failing school, like, the trades are the route that you absolutely need to go, so at the time, I was kind of under the impression of like, okay, Well, you know, I guess that's kind of true, so I wasn't exactly thrilled by the prospect of it. However, I'm like, okay, I am physically strong. I do enjoy doing, hands on things, but at the same time, can I see that happening for forever? Not really.

Angela 33:59

No, that's not like realistic that you could do that forever. I will say that I'm a glutton for punishment. So I'm really considering going back for my doctorate. I needed a break because I did All the other ones back to back over 9 years. school is a great conversation. I feel like we could have a whole episode just about what we learn academically, what we're interested in, how it's helped us kind of readjust to life. Has anybody had a really terrible experience hunting for a job or a great one? Like, I want to hear great ones too, like a great success where you feel like you went in and conquered and kicked ass.

Samantha 34:45

I could, when it comes to jobs, there could be an entire episode where we just interview every job that I've had. And like, I just do a chronology of the good and the bad. I'll do a bad and then I'll do a good. The bad was I got a job at this place called I was hired the day that my testimony for the Charlottesville case went public, and they hired me three months before I was actually starting to work there. I left my other job and I was managing a which is a very nice I was in the food and beverage program and it was great they loved me. Some people there knew about my past and it was just inconsequential, it was just very much like whatever. So I started working at this other place and the manager pulled me aside and was like, Hey, we're thinking, you know, like, we're looking for management. Would you be interested? And I was like, not really, like, you can train me. I, I obviously have like a decade's worth of experience with this. I'm very knowledged in that whole thing, but I'm kind of just looking for something a little bit lower maintenance. And they said, fine, that was a Tuesday. On Friday, Okay. As my shift was starting, I was pulled into the back office and they were like, Hey, we, we need to talk to you. And they called HR and this woman gets on the phone and she goes, Hey, I'm, I'm just going to get to the point. We have to let you go. And I was like, what are you talking about? And she's like, I think you know why. And I was like, no, I'm not sure what's going on. And she was like, your past affiliation has a really bad stigma. And we're trying to get investors and we can't, we don't feel comfortable keeping you. Because of that. And I started crying. Like I, I just did not see it coming. I got along with everyone. I actually really liked the job. I was fucking devastated. I was so upset. And that happened right after the other guy campaigned against me and it just became this whole thing, but they were like, yeah, we Googled you. Someone told us that we should Google you. And we, we Googled your name and we saw this stuff. And I was like, I got hired the day that went public. Why did you not Google me then? Why did I quit my other job to come here? Like, what is all this? And they're like, we're sorry, we're just still growing and we really need investors. And there's a stigma for formers. And I was like, this is not going to be the last time this happens. Like I'm not that uncommon anymore. But they, they refused and they were like, You're too close to it. Like it's been too soon. Give it time. And I was like, well, I just did a thing with Hillary Clinton. Like that's coming out, like there's media, but that's actually one of the reasons I stopped doing media, so that was really, really tough that again happened in Pittsburgh and it really knocked my self worth. I felt really crummy. I felt like scum But the good story is that I had worked for this cafe and it was around the time when that unicorn riot leak happened. I ended up leaving for another job. And I was nervous. I, I wasn't public yet. so then my interview came out on CNN with L reef and that was fine. That was whatever a couple of months had passed. And my boss She was Brazilian. she texted me and I, I read it and she was like, Hey, I just saw your thing on CNN. I had no idea that that was part of your life. And she's like, I really hope you find peace. And if you ever want to come back, like the door's always open for you. And she ended up asking me to come back and work for her and was just very much like, yeah, Yeah, I don't give a shit. Like you, you were great. It's very clear. That's not who you are. Like, I wish you would have told me. And if that's why you felt compelled to leave, like you're clearly so much more than that. please don't, don't ever let that dull your shine or something like that. It was like one of those really like sweet, but corny kind of things. But like I said, I've found that if I own it, I give people a minute to get to know me. And then the second I tell them about my past, they're kind of like, Oh, wow, that's wild. I would have never guessed like, good for you for getting out. And that's it. They usually don't care. Most people are thinking about themselves way more than they care about you or your past. But yeah, I just wanted to show that I have so many stories about like how my past has in fact has like, affected my work thing. And how like Googling and being doxed or being public and all this stuff, like it does make it really tough especially I was a bartender. I was working with the public all the time. And if you work in a certain city, you don't know if someone from your past is going to come in or someone's going to recognize you from TV, or you don't know if that person is like. You know, interested in politics in that way and has seen your docs or has seen your public stuff and it's really scary. You feel like you're never allowed to have a bad day. You're not allowed to like even risk telling a joke that might be taken the wrong way. It's just really tough. So I'm very grateful to be working for Life After Hate and also the place where I bartend now. They know my history. We have like a code where they're like, if someone from your past comes in, just text this little code and we'll escort them out and call the police or do whatever, like people have become really, really protective of me. And I'm so grateful for that. I've never needed it. I don't think I ever will. But once you really start to change internally, And once you know you've changed and you stop begging other people to forgive you because you've learned how to forgive yourself, I think it really shows and people can see that honesty and they're willing to embrace that. Sorry, that was a ramble. but it's just, this whole jobs thing. Like there is such a. Huge thing from it. And what I wanted to ask you guys about school is like, have you ever experienced rejection? I know a lot of formers that will apply to a grad school and because they're known or for whatever reason, they get rejected. How do you cope with that? How do you move forward?

Angela 40:33

I can tell you. You just keep applying. Keep applying. When I graduated with my associates and applied to universities in Florida, they wouldn't even talk to me. Like, as a human being, I got, rejection letters, because of this and this and this, we cannot, you know, accept you. And my alma mater was the only university that actually treated me like a human, invited me in for a conversation like mature adults do, and I wrote a little essay, it was good enough that they were like, alright, you're in. And that perseverance, like, perseverance, just because if you say no, well, fuck those few, there's better ones out there, keep going. that's something you really got to do if you want to keep going.

Brad 41:23

Yeah. the rejection of jobs or school, I think it's, it's a common thing and we have to also have the little chalkboard figuratively, of course, and say, look, does these things happen? Based on whatever reasons, whether it was previous involvement, whether it was like, you just didn't stack up, maybe the cohort didn't match, who knows. Who cares? Move on. Keep trying. Keep pushing. it's not a, it's not a loss. I don't chalk those things up as a loss, unless it's a loss for them because they didn't know what they missed out on by having, you there, you gotta, you gotta like value. The place that you go and get your education and where you're working at we have to put that stuff into perspective of like, let's. Like push forward and be part of whatever this world is that we are operating in. And I think you know, 2018, just after Charlottesville, I remember us talking Ange back in 2017, just after and life after hate was like inundated. Speaking of jobs and, and crap, like we just, nobody had time for anything except for the aftermath of Charlottesville. Like that's it. And then I joined OPV. We were following Life After Hate's examples. And like, I think the inspiration we've got to take is that we are kind of like all innovators in our own ways in like leading these movements. But now going and getting education or going and being part this podcast, even like who thought in 2017 this would be happening?

Angela 42:49

Right.

Samantha 42:50

not me.

Angela 42:51

It's so true.

Brad 42:52

Not Sam.

Angela 42:54

not Sam, not Sam, but thankfully the force restored itself. And what you were saying about that, Brad, you know, I have a hard time, sharing my own accomplishments or milestones. I always feel weird about it. But where those other universities failed me. UCF, which is my alma mater, restored humanity for me because not only did they open up that doorway, but I was allowed to choose my own track. I was allowed to say, these are the things that I want to study, and this is how it's going to be helpful to me in my experience and the work I do. And this is why I need it. But more than that, it was where I needed to be in life at that time. Like, I was the first student they ever invited to kick off diversity week with the opening address. And I was so proud of myself that I had gotten from such a shitty beginning and place in life to who would have thought. This is what I'd be doing. And when you talk about the academics it's like, I am going to invite you to the Angela academic groupie club, because same thing when I was working on my thesis, I'm using the research of the people that I now get to be friends with and work with and another such a full circle moment. So, with all of the rejection, I've been rewarded for perseverance and so many ways. That it, I feel like it couldn't have happened differently. It just couldn't have. And I think some of us are starting to feel that magic in our lives. And that synergy of, I feel different. I'm a different person. Things are moving in the right direction. I'm making better decisions. I can trust myself now. That's what I hear when we have these kind of conversations.

Samantha 45:03

something I do want to say, I guess it's like a, I don't want to say a piece of advice or anything like that, but like. You don't have to be the hero when you leave the movement, the transition that you're going to go through is so big and so consuming emotionally, mentally, just in every way that like, you don't need to go for the big job. You don't need to stay in your career path. You can get that back. You are already so stunted emotionally and in so many other ways that like, you don't need that extra responsibility. I tried really hard to maintain that and I fell apart every time. It was until I started at the bottom, truly, that I was able to actually do the appropriate work to change. And it sucks. In the beginning, it really, really sucks and it's scary and you go through that paranoia of like, Who knows, do they suspect it, do I need to tell someone this, that, and the other but it will be okay. It sucks, and it's hard, but you will work through it, and it will be okay.

Angela 46:13

and there's support too. Like, we're here to share If we can, what was helpful to us to pep talk, to offer advice, input, there's support out there for people going through it. But you're right, Sam, that it, it can be a. dark path sometimes that feels lonely and feels like you're trying to fight your way out of a paper bag. You get out of that bag. You get on that path and don't give up. Keep trying.

Samantha 46:47

and for academics universities reject people and students for all kinds of reasons. it truly is not like a You know, a mark on you every time if you have your past it could have been that there just simply was someone who they thought would be a better fit. It really is not an assassination of your character or who you are. So if you don't make it in one thing, it's okay.

Angela 47:13

I think we'll leave it there. How was your experience taking on responsibility after the movement? Get in touch with us on our site, www. thedailyformer. com. You can find us wherever you get your podcast. Thanks again. Talk soon.

Samantha 47:32

Bye.

Angela 47:33

Bye everybody. Thanks for the good chat.

Jamie 47:36

Hey, everyone.