How to Set Boundaries

The Formers talk about how to set boundaries, how and when to maintain them, and when negotiating your limits is actually just accepting bad behavior.

Discord: https://discord.gg/NzjE3fSrhE

Thinking about leaving? Cool. Drop us a line.
thedailyformer@lifeafterhate.org

www.thedailyformer.com

www.thedailyformer.com

Transcript

Samantha 0:41

Welcome to the Daily Former, a podcast about how to set boundaries. I am here with Angela and Lauren. My name is Sam and a boundary that I have is if you call me after 9pm and it's not an emergency, I am going to end the conversation as soon as possible.

Lauren 0:55

I'm Lauren. A boundary that I personally have is that I won't tolerate disrespect of any kind from anybody.

Angela 1:02

My name is Angela and a boundary that I have is not allowing people suffering from addiction to treat me poorly

Samantha 1:12

I really want to start with you, Angela. you know, there's that phrase hurt people hurt people. And when you have addiction of any kind, be it substance, be it, you know, work or whatever, you can really forget that boundaries exist. how do you set those boundaries?

Angela 1:29

with a lot of therapy and support.

Samantha 1:32

do you, yeah.

Angela 1:34

It's really hard.

Samantha 1:36

I think going into the movement our, our sense of boundary was completely violated and shifted and we had to get that back, but I wanted to ask all of you, did we have trouble with boundaries before the movement?

Angela 1:48

Yes, I did.

Lauren 1:51

In my case, yes. I find this is the case actually for many people regardless of what they identify as. That, we're just not taught to do that as kids. Like, we're taught, okay, these are your parents, you follow what they say. And, you can't question it. Or that was the case for mine. And from what I've heard from other people, it's been the case for them, too.

Samantha 2:09

Yeah,

Angela 2:10

sure, yeah. I, I wasn't allowed to have thoughts or feelings when I was a kid. It was like complete disenfranchisement. So learning later in life to establish boundaries was more difficult because of what you mentioned, Lauren.

Samantha 2:27

that's so interesting. Mine was sort of different. Like, I was encouraged to read and listen my parents were actually, the one thing that I, I really do have to credit them for is, they never really censored anything. I could read whatever I wanted to, listen to whatever music I wanted to, watch whatever movie I wanted to, as long as I could grasp it. I was encouraged to think how I wanted to, but I was not allowed to have needs or problems that I couldn't solve myself. I was very much the mediator between my parents, and I had a little brother. My parents were pretty negligent, so I ended up kind of, I don't want to say raising my brother, but kind of. And so, It became very easy for me to question authority, but I was so disconnected from myself and my body and my needs that I didn't want to listen to anyone I'd never had really respect for authority, but I also didn't know how to ask anyone for help because of that. So I think. The movement was a really great place for me because I was trying to figure out my identity and I was trying to reconnect with myself and the movement promises like you can just be a woman. You can just do this and you can just do that and you don't have to put so much pressure on yourself. You can be feminine. And that was really appealing to me. It felt like all my problems were going to be solved. And as we all know, they were not, they were just tenfold. But yeah, What safeguards do you put in place now,

Lauren 4:03

You know, I think in terms of protecting myself, I'm happy that this is one thing I've never done is have a joint bank account with a partner. I've just never thought it was a good idea.

Angela 4:13

Yeah, I've never done that either, but probably for different reasons. So for me, about three years out of prison which would make it about six years out of the movement, I was dating this person and they had addiction issues. And I kept articulating boundaries, but I was not able to really follow through until it became a really dangerous situation for me where I had to actually get protection through law enforcement. The first time my, my boundary was successful was mom is an alcoholic and she's a mean alcoholic, like one drink in and she's calling everybody an asshole and, saying really rude stuff. So my first boundary actually following it through was telling my mom that. If she continued to drink and treat me in that way, then she wouldn't see me and it was tough.

Samantha 5:21

I would guess for people like us Most people don't believe that we're going to enforce boundaries until we do.

Angela 5:26

True An observation that I've made is the more I stand up for myself and the more I. Articulate and follow through with boundaries, the less people are in my life, which works well for my plan of growth, because, you know, when you grow as a human and level up in that way, you shed people that aren't going to treat you. Right. That aren't on the level that you expect for yourself. And that's, I think, part of the learning process.

Samantha 5:57

Yeah, I think I was really surprised, Angela, you set some pretty firm work boundaries, and I remember when I first started working for Life After Hate, I was so, envious of that, I was just like, how do you do that, like, how do you just say this is my limit, and you stick to it, and it was just like, what do you mean you can do this, and now, I think I'm, I'm coming to that place as well, where I can kind of be like, this is my priority, I'm sorry, I can't help you right now. Or the whole no is a complete sentence thing that alluded me for a very long time. Lauren, you had mentioned that, you weren't allowed to question authority, just like your parents said something and them's the rules. How did you break yourself of that? And of also, as you were breaking it, how did you develop Literacy for these kinds of things.

Lauren 6:47

Okay, so I think I should have been clearer about that. So just because I wasn't allowed to, it doesn't mean that I didn't. I definitely did. I remember actually when I was working with my former therapist there were several times actually where I would describe something to him and he would say, you know, you were actually right. And what you did or what you thought there. And I'm like, holy fuck, who would have known? the nice thing is like, at least we had somewhat of a foundation to build off of. So what I had realized over time with myself is okay. yes, I do have kind of a strong, stubborn personality. However, there's better uses for it than the movement. And. Actually, going back to what Angelo was saying, as far as shutting people by setting boundaries I call it defuculating one's life. a huge one was, if I gotta tell you no more than once, then you're getting blocked, and you're getting cut out.

Samantha 7:33

Yeah, how long did it take everyone to get to this place? what was the journey like for everyone to be where they're at now where we have boundaries and we're not afraid to say them?

Lauren 7:46

the first instance that I can remember, this was like a couple of months out of the movement. basically took everything from therapy and finally put it into practice. So I had tried that plenty of fish dating site met someone on there, hung out with them. I don't know for how long, maybe a month and a half or so. I told him about my past at first, pretty much on the first or second date. And he did seem okay with it at first, but then The crude, sarcastic comments came along later and I'm realizing, okay, this guy's actually kind of a douche bag. I remember something about my past came up in a conversation and then he kind of laughed and he said, Oh, I'm banging a skinhead. So I said, not me more. You're not bye bye.

Samantha 8:24

I love that. Yeah, I wish I had that. well, first and foremost, when you did that, did that feel empowering or was it scary?

Lauren 8:31

I actually drove home. It was like a 40 minute drive back to my place and I was just, laughing at all of it, I went and texted my therapist, the next day, and I'm like, Hey, guess what I did? And he's just laughing.

Samantha 8:43

That's pretty funny. Angela, what about you? how was your journey? What was the first time you did that?

Angela 8:50

the Harry Potter movies? Yeah. You know the one where the bus does that and that little skull head goes, It's gonna be a bumpy ride! Oh my god. That's how it was, like, With that first partner, I really was trying to establish boundaries But really had a hard time following through I was on a life path. You know, I was Hardcore into school. I was the first few years into healing and growth and therapy and all these things. And I remember that I had plans to go to university for my doctorate. And potentially my PhD and this person that I was with, we were together for four years at some point, they were like, when's it going to be my turn? And I was like, I don't know, schedule it in your life. Like, I don't know what to tell you, but they expected me to quit school at that point and work to support them. And I was like, wait a minute. No I've supported myself during school and I'm not changing my whole life's trajectory. So you can go fuck school up.

Samantha 10:05

Yeah.

Angela 10:06

And that was hard, but most of my boundary setting has been with my family. Like, my family's kind of fucked up, And there's been some of the hardest boundaries I've ever had to set and follow through with in my life. In the fall of 22, my father passed away, and on his deathbed, he started saying the N word again. And I had to say, deathbed or not, if you want me here with you on this journey, that isn't acceptable. And it wasn't the first time I had to do it with family.

Samantha 10:46

That's the hardest. I feel like with because we joined the far right and because we were quote unquote the bad guy, I feel like family tend to be the first people that claim to take you back without conditions. I feel like there's this journey of like when you leave, you're willing to accept really bad behavior because you're like, well, I'm not, you know, I was a Nazi and I'm not a Nazi anymore. just all of the mental stuff that you go through, how long did it take before you really started demanding this kind of respect?

Angela 11:19

I spent almost three years in prison. And that was my disengagement from the movement. Like, I'm not complaining, but it was a forced disengagement and right out of prison coming out like a completely different, Oh my God, I see the light kind of person. My stepdad, I will never forget. He said, just because you change doesn't mean anybody else has. So I don't want to hear any of your new bullshit. And that was like, thanks, dude. I see you. I'm out.

Samantha 11:55

Yeah,

Angela 11:56

done. So right out of prison, I would say, was when I started with what I felt were smaller things, like I'm not participating in anything having to do with homophobia anything really that, Was this symbol of what I used to be and who I used to be and it was like no Period,

Samantha 12:18

did you ever joke about it or let people joke about it like friends or family would make jokes and stuff. And also it happened to me. I went to my aunt's house and they had tiki torches in the back because they had a pool and stuff. And we walked outside and I don't remember what it was, but I guess I made a face man goes, Oh, are the tiki torches triggering? And I just had to like It was one of those things where I was like, that's fucked, but like, also that is kind of funny, like it's such a bland object that it is weird that for some people in this world, tiki tortures are going to be a trigger. when people like that did make jokes, was there ever a point where it was over the line? And like, how did you handle that? It's

Lauren 12:58

that I can remember. I mean, the only joke between my family and I is when I talk about something new that I'm up to, like, stuff that's positive, my mom will tell me, Oh, well, I mean, it keeps you out of trouble and off the streets. And I'm like, yeah, I've been there and I've done that. But that's really the farthest it goes.

Angela 13:14

I mean, but like, coming out of prison for a hate crime,

Samantha 13:19

yeah.

Angela 13:20

if anybody would have joked about it, I probably would have been horrified and been like, fuck you.

Samantha 13:25

Yeah. I dated this guy after I left. like I went on a lot of dates, but nothing ever went anywhere. Nothing ever happened just because I was It was me trying to, prove that I was still okay, and I, absolutely was not. But there was this one guy I dated for a little while and he made some joke one day. I don't remember what it was, but I was taking a shower and I came into his bedroom and I tripped or something like that and he gave me this sort of like, oh, yeah She's great breeding stock and I just had this like fuck you. We're done I'm not taking this anymore. there was another where I dated this guy and we were all playing Jackbox, which is an internet, party game thing. And we all lived in separate places, which is why we were online doing it. And we were playing Pictionary or something like that, where you have to write words down. and I had asked this person to keep everything private, like I wasn't public yet, it was nothing like that but his friends kept writing down, like, Nazi shit and I couldn't figure out what it was and I was like, hey, this is really weird Your friends are doing all this stuff. And then at the end they all started making a lot of jokes and all this stuff and I just had this like okay so they know An inappropriate amount, you know, like that's not your story to tell and I broke up with him and he was like How could you do this to me? And then he pulled the i'm jewish and you're an ex nazi and you're breaking up with me how dare you and I don't really know what to say to that other than just like This isn't working it has nothing to do with you being jewish. It has to do with you being an asshole

Lauren 15:02

it's funny, Sam. I've often wondered that because I've ran into similar before where they'll say, Oh, but you're an ex skinhead or whatever. And I'm like, why were you fucking me in the first place? Then

Samantha 15:12

Yeah, that's always this weird, whatever, you have that past, and you knew before all of this, dog, in moments like that, how do you cope with that? Like, when someone does do that, There's like a switch that flips in my brain when someone disrespects you in that way, and I just kind of have this like Okay, you were never Interested in my well being we never connected the way that I thought we did I can at least walk away from this knowing that I was honest and I was sincere, but I am also Definitely walking away from this. I don't Make exceptions for people that will continue to treat me like shit and expect me to like it's just a joke like yeah I've heard that we've all heard that in the fucking movement, you know I guess basically I'm asking if you guys have Tips on boundary setting and how you can do it without feeling like shit.

Lauren 15:59

when I've ran into similar before, what I have said without really much explanation was, listen, I don't appreciate that type of shit. you know, get to know me and my story a little bit better before you comment.

Samantha 16:11

Yeah, I think especially when it comes to making friends and dating like every person that you interact with has to choose to interact back with you and I know that they demand at least a modicum of respect and if they can't show that same respect to you, you don't want them in your life. they will try and make you feel bad because of your past or because of whatever petty reason they have, but that's not on you. That has nothing to do with you or your shortcomings. That has to do with someone projecting this, need to feel superior or better than you. And we all know How that goes, we were all professional superiority complex people.

Angela 16:50

I am a very different person than I was then, so now I have no problem laying down boundaries all over the place. Like,

Samantha 17:00

we can deep dive on that then, you know? I mean, My mom has crossed my boundaries a lot. like, she's not an alcoholic necessarily, but again, because I spent my whole life enmeshed in my parents problems and mediating their marriage, when I left the movement and realized that's kind of what I did in all of my relationships, friendships, romantic relationships, and otherwise, I made myself The problem solver without allowing myself to realize I also had problems. And I really tried to set these boundaries with my mom and would be like, Hey, I can't talk about this. This is too sensitive for me or whatever. And every time she would, she would do this, I'm just, trying to blah, blah, blah. Or, well, I guess I'll never talk to you again. very like overcorrecting, dramatic, narcissistic type of shit

Angela 17:47

I said aggressive.

Samantha 17:49

Yeah, extremely passive aggressive,

Angela 17:51

Okay, I'm going to go a little deep here. My father is gone. And my mom is sick. She had something wrong with her cognitively. We're trying to get it diagnosed. But it's, you know, actually, this is a good one to talk about because I actually rolled back some of my boundaries because this wasn't a situation I anticipated. I have very strong boundaries up with my mom because she's a really toxic person. She doesn't. You know, work on herself. She doesn't read, she doesn't get help, like, nothing. And my boundaries were pretty firm until she got sick. And up until she got sick, I was the one that was like, I have put my time in with that woman, it's you two's turn now. if something happens to her, I'm out. it's on you. And that's not the case. Like, she's really sick, and in relaxing those boundaries, it's because I would never want to see any human being go through what she's doing. And a really hard lesson that my siblings and I have had to learn is that the toxic person is still there, but now there's an additional layer of something going on with her that she can't control. So I ended up moving her to where my siblings and I live. We live close to one another. So now it's kind of funny but not. I have the boundaries. I have put so much work in on myself over the years, My family has not done that work. Now they're trying to lay down boundaries. And it's kind of funny to me because They've taken my idea, but they don't really know how to apply it right.

Samantha 19:41

Mm hmm.

Angela 19:42

it is difficult. sometimes we make decisions about what's acceptable to us and what's not. And circumstances change. You know, if my mom was in her right mind and okay and healthy, my boundaries would still be solid in place. I know she's not anymore. And I choose to, deal and just let it roll off my back when that toxic person comes out.

Samantha 20:10

that brings up when does our threshold for bullshit kind of normalize? like, is your mom aware of the fact that these boundaries existed and were relaxed? is it something like, you feel that she's taking advantage of it?

Angela 20:25

I don't think that she even has the wherewithal to, no, to take advantage of it.

Samantha 20:32

It's just who she is.

Angela 20:33

she's always been a toxic person. She's had mental health issues my entire life. Half, probably more. Of my own issues stemmed from my mother because of her issues. And I'm talking like I grew up in that family that was like, you must eat every last scrap on your plate. But at the same time at seven years old, my mom was like, you weigh two pounds more than you should. You have to go on a diet. And She would do terrible things that were just cruel. Like my cousins and siblings would go get Burger King and I'd have this little pita full of lettuce like, what the fuck is that? so I have disordered eating. I know where it came from. today. I can, protect myself. I know what's happening. I have that boundary. When I hear her still say things like, you know, my niece or nephew's looks, how much they eat, I have a 14 year old niece that is bipolar and has disordered eating and has anxiety. And I have straight up told my mom, you will not do to her what you did to me.

Samantha 21:46

Yeah.

Angela 21:46

Like, my mom will sit there, right in front of me. I'm a hefty person. I am not no twig. And I never will be. I don't wanna be. And she will be like, Oh my god, I've gained weight. I'm so fucking disgusting. That's what I heard my whole life and where I got my beliefs about myself because of how I look or how much I weigh all came from you. Even sick I tell her that because I'm not holding it back anymore. why should I hold what she did to me when she's still doing the same things that could potentially affect the whole next generation of my family. Y'all

Samantha 22:26

sad thing to know that she's, she's ill and It's not guaranteed that she's going to get better and instead of worrying about that, it's like, oh, well, I need to eat this, pita full of lettuce instead of just enjoying what is potentially, one of the last times I will cognitively understand that the food I'm eating could be delicious, like, that's so sad.

Angela 22:49

Listen, it is so bad. When she got sick, she had put herself on a diet because she thought she was so disgusting and we found all she was eating was sugar free jello. She was malnourished. She was starving herself and that's the type of person she is.

Lauren 23:10

now that we're on the topic of body image, my first thought there was of course, like, I've dealt with it too throughout my life. I was teased, I was made fun of when I was younger by some family members and also by people at school. I kind of, made a list of all the people who had ever done it and saw similarities there. bunch of them were high school douchebags. Not really people that we should be listening to or taking for serious. I remember that too, particularly with my grandfather where we'd be having dinner, are you sure you need more, or whatever, but at the same time, if I skipped dessert, oh, were you trying to impress a boy, I remember I was only, like, 15 at the time, and I stood up and said, no, I'm trying to get you to shut the fuck up. and of course I got into a bit of trouble for that. because you're not supposed to mouth back at authority or anyone who's quote above you But I'm like, you know what? I look back on that memory and I do not regret it at all because he needed that shock to his system

Samantha 24:02

Yeah,

Angela 24:03

What about you, Sam? You keep asking all these questions, like, Have you had to put in place hardcore boundaries with people close to you?

Samantha 24:13

Yeah I mean, I'm very lucky that I am in a mental space now that the people that I have in my life wouldn't like, I don't have to necessarily put boundaries in place because they're already respected. But I mean, yeah, I had a family member call me at certain hours of the night, just like shit hammered and going off about all these terrible things. I've had friends. And this was all in the beginning, like what I found is that the harder you work, the better you get, the luckier you are. So Especially in the beginning of this, it felt like I almost sought out relationships that would just continue to emulate all of the bad relationships I had throughout my life, platonic or otherwise So I, I would like, become friends with people that were clearly not good people, or at the very least not good for me, and then be like, why aren't I getting the respect that I want? And it's you have all your problems in common. my therapist at the time actually made me do these body check ins. My therapist, who is the best. But it was every two hours, I would put it on a timer and she had me carry a little notebook and every two hours, no matter what you're doing, just write where you're at, how your body feels. And I was able to start seeing places that I was at where I was actually really unhappy, or situations or people that I would be with regularly that I did not like being around, and I was able to see Oh, I say that I'm happy. I say I have these friends, but more often than not, I'm feeling really negative emotions just going about my day. And something I realized is I don't owe anyone anything. I owe it to myself to treat myself better and not be in the far right. I owe it to the communities that I harm to do no more harm and where possible, try and make amends for that. But beyond that, I don't owe anyone an explanation. I know I'm doing the right thing. I know what I'm doing is good. And so, If I would ask someone to respect me in a certain way and they didn't, I kind of just would stop having them in my life. There was no grand explanation. There was no fallout. There was never any like, know, Oh, I've asked you to do this a hundred times and you won't do it. I just would stop answering their calls. I would stop calling them like what, what good is coming of it.

Angela 26:36

You just reminded me of an experience I had that was terrible, that had to do with boundaries. I had completely forgotten. this one has to do with, professional life and work. Not life after hate, but, you know, that general. realm. There was a place that I worked with, for almost two decades. And you both know that at some point a few years ago, I decided to stop speaking publicly, to stop doing media because it was really triggering to me and it wasn't helping me move forward and continue my healing journey. And the person that ran this particular place kept inviting me back to speak. And I had been sharing for years, I'm retiring from it. And I decided to be vulnerable and open up about why. And I shared some of the most vulnerable things about me, to the point that I said, when I was coming out and coming out of prison, I was afraid that my brain was hardwired to hate. that I would always think terrible things in my mind, no matter how much I change. And when I speak today, it brings me back to that, and my brain starts thinking terrible things again. I was, so vulnerable, I cried, I said I can't, grow if I'm so busy, repeating the past. and The person told me that if holocaust survivors could go out and speak about their experiences, Then I needed to get over my shit, find a friend, find a therapist, and keep speaking. I'm obligated, it's my duty to, everybody. And that was a boundary. That was crossed so far. I've never spoken with them again they've tried to reach out and contact me and i'm like ignore ignore

Lauren 28:34

to me, it sounds like what that person is obviously missing is the fact that, anybody who's out there speaking, that is by choice, like, no one's forcing anybody really to do it. I mean, yes, we get guilt tripped and do it, but not forced.

Samantha 28:48

I think there's a different psychology that goes into that, where you are constantly reliving the worst parts of your life that you made the decision to participate in,

Angela 28:59

it was a real awakening for me about how much people love the trauma porn. Like, what kind of donations can this bring in for us? and my life is not about if you want me to come talk to you about the work that I've put in on myself, about what's happened between the time that I disengaged and now, I'm happy to do that. Because nobody, really spends a lot of time talking about that. Everybody usually talks about, oh, I got in this many fights and beat up this many people and went to jail this many times and look at all the tattoos, I'm not about that anymore. There was a time and a place for that in my life. And almost two decades of it is enough for me.

Samantha 29:43

I find it. I find it to be very interesting. And I wonder if it's The fault of some other formers that almost every like I think a lot about Howard Stern and his evolution as a radio host where like in the 90s he was very like misogynist and like show me your tits and you know talking to men and being like who's your best sleigh, just that whole, exploitative, really shitty stuff. And now he's apparently this very, I don't want to say enlightened, but like, considerate and profound. they're allowed to change and for some reason, even though we're brought on to discuss how we've changed and all this stuff, they always want to bring us back to that same moment. And they make a spectacle of it. I mean, again, that's, that's the whole premise of TDF is we are not trying to exploit anyone. that's why in this whole conversation, I tried not to ask too specific questions because we know enough about each other that we could dig into our lives, but that's not my place to do. That's not my story to demand that you tell.

Angela 30:51

Right.

Samantha 30:52

And so I think when we talk about media and. this idea that when you leave the movement, you're suddenly like working for the Rothschild and, and you're pairing with the Holocaust Museum and you're the spokesperson for Antifa and all this stuff. I will never be any of those things. We want to make amends and do our best. We don't want to be treated like show ponies.

Angela 31:15

Exactly.

Lauren 31:17

And you have to think, too, war stories, ultimately, they just don't help anybody. Because what does it look like on paper when I read it back, say, if I was to go and, disclose all the stupidest parts of my life and only focus on that to a journalist? It's just gonna look like I miss it and I'm still proud of it.

Angela 31:33

Right.

Samantha 31:34

yeah. Whenever I talk about it now, and I think it's why people say that it's always like, Oh wow, you're very self aware. You're so insightful and blah, blah, blah. I will make a point whenever I discuss certain parts of my story, I will say like, you know, and I now know it's because of this, or at the time I wasn't aware of that, but I now like, I tried to bookend it with a sort of I did this, I now understand why, and here's how I've changed in that regard. Of course, those parts never get aired. But learning how to set boundaries with media when it is a journalist's job to get the scoop to get the nugget to get, you know, the arable one liner that makes you sound either incredible or like the worst person in the world, learning how to set those boundaries is so tough. And especially in our situation where journalists often don't feel obliged to protect our humanity. We are a story.

Angela 32:32

It's reminded me of another one that was terrible, but I know you two have heard about it before.

Samantha 32:38

yeah, but the audience hasn't.

Angela 32:39

This is true. about seven or eight years ago. I was being interviewed by some large outlet, I don't remember, and they sent a photographer and I had explained to the dude. I'm recovering from a bilateral mastectomy and breast reconstruction, you're not gonna get photos, with me burying my chest tattoos. And dude asked me to take my fucking shirt off, even after I disclosed that to him, and I was like, what the fuck? you know, on one hand, you feel flattered, like, oh my god, this place wants to talk about my work, or my story, or whatever. But the way that you're dehumanized to get there, especially as a woman, that was a hardcore, like, Hey, motherfucker, number one, I'm a human being, and number two, do you know how to listen? Because I've already, shared with you what's off limits, but you still go past those boundaries, and way past them, like, you're 15 speed bumps past that one, and that was not okay, and I had no problem saying it's not okay,

Samantha 33:47

unfortunately, we're going to have to wrap this up. But I think when it comes to boundaries, Throughout this conversation, I've asked like, how do you do this? And how do you do that? And what we've been kind of repeating this whole time is the only thing you can do is practice. There's no One day, you're going to wake up and be like, oh, that's what boundaries are a problem solved. I will now just announce my boundaries to everyone. you know, Angela, you took it piece by piece for me. It was, it was situational where I was starting to learn about myself and realized, this is something that I, I didn't know I could even do before. And I think you will lose people. You will also gain people, and if it's for every two people you lose, it's one person you gain. That one person is so much higher quality and so much fucking cooler you start to have a quality over quantity life. It ends up being really fulfilling.

Lauren 34:44

one thing to add to that, maybe this is just the introvert in me talking, I'm not really too sure, but I'd rather be alone than have a bunch of shitty people around me.

Angela 34:52

yes,

Samantha 34:53

100%. yeah, and I think I've always been a little bit of a private person, but what I love now is if I do set the boundary. It's respected.

Angela 35:04

you're getting respect outside of where you would typically expect that to come from, and still seeing that other human beings are capable of respecting your boundaries.

Samantha 35:17

And not trying to negotiate them.

Angela 35:20

Right. Right.

Samantha 35:22

the last thing I was going to say about that is when you're setting a boundary, you're saying this is the maximum of what I am going to accept. And if someone is trying to negotiate, what they're asking is, yeah, but can I treat you a little bit worse?

Angela 35:35

Right.

Samantha 35:36

whenever anyone tries to not respect you, that is the perspective to have.

Angela 35:40

I'm gonna start easing that. when people cross my boundaries, I'm gonna be like, am I understanding that you're trying to treat me worse Lauren, you said you would rather be alone than surrounded assholes.

Lauren 35:54

Yes. Mm hmm.

Angela 35:55

That's such a full circle moment from where we've all been, where we would rather be surrounded by a bunch of assholes than to be healthy and confident in ourselves and who we are.

Samantha 36:07

Yeah.

Angela 36:09

I am good enough on my own and confident enough and who I am and what I bring to the table.

Samantha 36:15

I think there's such a longer conversation we could have with this but I, we do have to leave it here right now. This is actually Angela's day off. So we are disrespecting her boundary right now by asking her to work but she

Angela 36:28

Well, this 1,

Samantha 36:33

so I,

Lauren 36:34

us.

Samantha 36:35

I also love that she was like, I retired from talking and she's on this podcast, We're going to get to that story.

Angela 36:42

it's on our terms. This is initiated by us, it's ideated by us, and it's sharing our experiences in the way we want to share them, through our own lens, not the trauma porn or other lenses that are expected. So, fuck you, I'll make exceptions for this.

Samantha 37:03

I love that, at the end of the day, yes, this is a project of Life After Hate, but Life After Hate was founded by formers, and even, the CEO and all that, they're not formers. But I will happily answer to our CEO because of how great he is. But what I love about this is I am going to be honest and be real. formers curate this we decide what goes in we decide what comes out it is all former run But thank you guys so much for talking. this actually ended up being a pretty nice conversation. And I'm sure we'll talk more about this and we're going to have to hear what the boys have to say. But yeah, thank you guys so much. We'll talk soon.

Lauren 37:46

Bye.

Samantha 37:47

right. Bye y'all.