Movie Night- Romper Stomper

CW: This film depicts scenes of racial violence, medical emergencies, questionable sexual scenarios, racist language, bad ideas, unaliving, etc. Please feel free to skip this!

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Transcript

Samantha 0:16

Welcome to movie night, a film discussion by the daily former today. We're discussing romper stomper. I am here with Lauren and Brad and boy, do we have some opinions? Brad, before we really get into the details tell me your relationship with this movie. Were you in the movement when this came out? Were you out already? did this influence you at all?

Brad 0:38

this movie was like, it was massive for, the time that I joined movement the garbage music in this thing, the whole soundtrack, there's one song that was very influential, particularly in the group of friends that I was hanging around. I'm not going to say the name of the song but it was influential in the sense of, a bunch of dudes standing in a room watching gratuitous violence and, Romans saluting each other. I know this is starting to sound like something that probably isn't a white supremacist skinhead thing, but Like, it was all, everything was celebrated in this movie, and I'm not sure that was the intention of why this movie was made, however, it turned into sort of a cult classic for white supremacist skinheads, in the sense that it was like making it okay like the whole street skin head thing was all like a real Theme there, which was really relatable for people who were in them in the movement. however, I think looking back on it now, I'm like, well, I can see those things happening, but I can also see the end part, Lauren. I don't know if you see this the same way as me, but like the friend dying, the everything falling apart, the, infighting, the gratuitous. Violent crap that was going on plus the um alcoholism the drugs that all of that Those are realities of the movement. So if we have to look at it through some sort of positive lens It's saying this is awful. All of this happens in there and it's awful but I can also see it being this whole thing of like

Samantha 2:27

Like a willful, ignorant misinterpretation of it?

Brad 2:30

Correct.

Samantha 2:31

Lauren, what about you? what's your relationship to this?

Lauren 2:35

so for me, I remember that stupid song, that we're talking about that's in the movie. And even the shows that I had attended and played at, I remember it being covered several times. the thing that drives me nuts about all of that is they made the movie for the song, and I'm assuming what their intention was, or what I would hope their intention was, is to show, okay, shitty music, shitty lifestyle. It's just that that song kind of carried through, in the movement itself, for several years. Because I was in like 2008 until 2015, and like, I remember that song fucking the whole way through. But as far as the movie itself, I am gonna say yes. It is an accurate portrayal of what things looked like at the time, just from the stories that I've heard from people in the UK, during that time frame, but man, like, the acting sucked, the storyline was hard to follow, and the way I kind of read it was okay, so they did show that the movement implodes on itself because of stupidity, because of infighting, and overall, I'm like, was it just a giant dick swinging contest over a girl? Because that's what it looked like to me.

Samantha 3:35

Yeah. well, you know, I'll say my relationship to it. I had a bunch of friends that were in the punk hardcore scene and similarly to like American Psycho, where even though Patrick Bateman is like a bad guy, People found them attractive. like, my friends were not interested in guys that rode motorcycles. My friends were interested in guys that were fucking murderers. So, extrapolate from that what you will have my personality, but I had never seen romper stomper before. it was all kind of in the same of like the warriors romper stomper tank girl, all of those high octane movies. I had not seen it until this, and I realized that chances are if I saw this movie before I was really introduced to, Nazism and all of that stuff, I do not think I would have joined. What I found to be so interesting is I hated the movie. I thought it was awful. I thought it was terrible. just the gratuitous violence, the abject terror that is being placed on these people. I hated it, but also, while I wasn't choking store owners to death or, beating the living shit out of, Asian people for no reason, in much more euphemistic language, I was condoning it. And so it's a very weird realization where I wanted to watch the movie and be like, I'm not like that. Like I wasn't like that. that wasn't my experience in the movement. And sure, the group that I was in claimed that it was law abiding and nonviolent, but no one walked away from the people that did do these things. it was very easy for us to be like, I'm not like that. We're above that. but if we were in the same room as them, we wouldn't leave the room. we wanted the same thing. so it, it was a tough watch. I didn't like it at all. a question that I wanted to ask that Brad, you kind of touched on is does the far right like this movie? And I was, actually just reading an interview with the guy who composed all the music for the movie. the movie is very specifically supposed to. Be how bad the movement is like how bad this lifestyle is like you're renting out warehouses It's grime your fucking bomber jacket that you murder people in is the same you use it as a pillow it's really disgusting stuff. And so the guy wrote music with his group like they were studio musicians They weren't like a skinhead punk band and he said we Talked to some skinheads and we purposely wrote the shittiest music we could And it would just appear that, it was completely misunderstood and it was sampled for a bunch of skinhead bands and it was covered and all that stuff. And he says he doesn't really feel, really embarrassed about it. He's like, because that just shows how dumb they are that we purposely went out of our way to make this terrible. And it was misunderstood. And again, it reminds me very much of train spotting where it's meant to be anti drug, but people for whatever reason, romanticize it. Lauren, for you, like, was this movie liked when you were in the movement? It was never mentioned to me. We made fun of The White Nationalist 1. 0, but no one ever mentioned it. No one ever talked about watching it. so yeah, I'm curious what your experience was.

Lauren 6:42

It depends at which point in my involvement we're talking about. So, like, early on, closer to when I first joined in 2008, I'm going to say yes. A lot of the people who I associated with at the time, including myself, did like the movie. It's just that later on, closer to when I was leaving, around like 2015 or so, that's when they started to kind of think about changing that image. getting away from the boots, braces, and changing it into what it is now. So I remember a lot of the guys, well, and girls at the time, rejecting it altogether and going, No, no, no, this is like fucking Hollywood being Hollywood. They're trying to make us look bad, the typical narrative. But meanwhile, Sam, I think you were saying this, we were still condoning all those things. It's just that our actions and behavior looked a little bit different.

Samantha 7:25

Yeah, absolutely. Excellent point. I wanted to ask, what are the themes of this movie, outside of, like, this is what it's like to be a Nazi skinhead, like, one of the themes, you know, I guess you kind of touched on it, Lauren, is, like, this weird, like, in the middle of the movie when Russell Crowe gets mad at Gabrielle, and he's like, I was gonna give you to Davey anyway, like, I literally went through that, so that I found to be interesting and just like how there's an obvious misogyny in all of it. like, Hendo was clearly a psychopath, correct? but yeah, were there any themes that you were able to pick out of it this go around? Like with a little bit more maturity and hindsight of like, Oh, this might have been what the movie was trying to say. And I did not pick up on it.

Lauren 8:12

Well, I mean, to me, the obvious fact is that, this girl came from a broken life. Like, her mom's passed away, her dad's a piece of shit. So, like, I can see why the movie had that type of theme going on, just to say, hey, look, it's so easy to fall into this kind of thing, and literally all you need to do is, meet somebody once, And, yes, dude is a psychopath, I totally agree with that. Cause, I mean, who the hell, makes out with a girl at a bar, brings her into a lifestyle like that, thinking it's okay, listens to her trauma dumping, keeps her around, and then tries to drown her at the end of the movie?

Samantha 8:47

I mean, only a romantic really, no, I totally agree with that. Brad, were there any takeaways that you have now? And when was the last time you watched it

Brad 8:56

So, I'm admittedly a re watcher of bad things purposely, when it comes to this stuff, It was interesting too, that, that other movie that we reviewed not so long ago, about Auschwitz and what impacts that had as well. it's, it's like going back to that. And even a couple of weeks after just thinking about that and then thinking about the perspectives of. My thoughts when I was in the movement and then not it's the same with this kind of thing though and this was more of a a real Real play cult thing with the movement though. They Really liked this movie a lot of them. but then there was like this little, you know Inglamerate of folks who were like, nah, that's shit. You know same same conspiracies Garbage, right? Like, oh, it's the Hollywood stuff, right? So I'm seeing that as well, but there's a hell of a lot of truth in it too. you know, yeah, it's not a good movie. It's just not, I don't think it's done well. but overall, when we talk about the things that were happening throughout the movie that are consistent with the movement, and even with what you were saying, Sam, about, Like that literally happened to you. Yeah, it has points there that are like, yep, that's what happens in that movement and it's shit and it's misogyny and it's racism and it's, hate crime. All that stuff was there. That's all real stuff that happens. And of course those things are celebrated by the movement, right? No surprise. That's why it's not a great movie.

Samantha 10:32

yeah, I felt maybe that's what it is because within the first five minutes of the movie three Asian people are just tortured, for no good reason and called slurs I don't think they referred to Asian people as Asian people at all throughout the entire film. And yeah, I think you bring up a great point that it's not a good movie and not in the way that Fight Club is purposely not a good movie where the lighting is always kind of purposely dim and everything is a little bit grungy, But I think also that that kind of, if we want to get a little, if we want to get a little, you know, silly about it and do the whole like, meta commentary of it. I could not see this being a big budget movie because this is the only way you could make a movie like this and still give the idea of this is a low budget movie for a low budget life. These are low budget people. I could not see this being glossier or like have, you know, better editing or anything like that. I just didn't like it. I don't think I would have liked it in the movement. I think my iteration would have absolutely hated it and done the like, you're turning us into something that we're not and completely failing to look in the mirror about the whole thing. it's weird. I wasn't going to ask originally, what is the most sensationalized portrayal of the fart? Like what's the most inaccurate in there? But the more I think about it, unfortunately, The more the movie is accurate in many ways, was there anything in there, though, that you would say doesn't align with the experience?

Lauren 12:03

Yeah, the sex. Because they make it look good, but honestly, from what I remember, it sucks.

Samantha 12:08

Yes, can confirm. And a lot of it is not consensual. Let me also bring up the question, how old was that girl supposed to be? Because she looked troublingly young.

Lauren 12:19

I would put her at maybe 14 or 15.

Samantha 12:23

Yeah, yeah. I thought, I think the one thing that I thought was really sensationalized was her, epilepsy. I know that in the beginning it's mentioned that she didn't take her medicine or she doesn't have her medication. So she is prone to seizures. I just have a hard time believing that someone like her who did grow up with a little bit of money and a little bit of privilege, wouldn't have taken the proper precautions. I don't think she would have lasted as long as she did, with epilepsy or any of that.

Lauren 12:50

You know what, those scenes actually triggered a couple memories, with me, so this individual, unfortunately, is passed away now. this one guy, from the group that I remember did have epilepsy, didn't take the medication one night and one seizure was all it took to take him out. and unfortunately, I also do think that if he was still around, he definitely would be out by now, because he just Did not fit in. He got treated like garbage when he was there. And I remember when I was first introduced, to that group in specific, one of the guys had told me, you know that guy over there, I don't like him all that much. I mean, he has to be on medication. He doesn't drink whenever he comes. He doesn't really do anything aside from fuck around and then go. And I look at that all these years later and I'm like, yes, because the fucking medication bottle clearly says do not take with alcohol. like, yeah, piss on him for following instructions.

Samantha 13:37

Well, that was like the, the guy who joined the Marines in there who was like, Oh, I joined the Marines. Like I need to have a job. And he just kind of leaves after they party for a couple of days. And I don't believe you see him for the rest of the movie. Like it's kind of like that guy was on his way out. we had reviewed, this is England a little while ago. And, Oh my goodness. We had a guest Clint he was saying that in this is England, there was a portrayal. There was a distinct line throughout the movie that I had never picked up on until Clint had mentioned it, that this is England is also trying to make. A contrast between nationalism and patriotism. And now I look for it in every movie that I watch and I felt like this film, like the guy joins the Marines, he wants to serve his country where all these skinheads are saying, it's our land, it's our country, it's our, this, but you're. Not getting jobs, you're not contributing to society, you're not doing anything. And they look down on people who are trying to live a straight life while promoting family values and having statutory sex. And, it's just this real, mess of do as I say, not as I do throughout all the movement. But I really I feel like the I joined the Marines thing was in there on purpose.

Lauren 14:53

how dare you want to do better for yourself? It actually kind of reminds me of when I started working in construction years and years ago. they would always tell me, oh, that's not a woman's job, but I'm like, you know what? I see the bigger picture here. You guys don't want people doing better for themselves because you're afraid of them leaving once they realize their value.

Samantha 15:12

yeah, I think we've talked about this before that like, they have to frame it as though every person in the movement is dependent on the movement so that it's not, you know, so that each individual doesn't realize it's the other way around. It's not that the ideology is good. It's not that it's the truth. It's that they've suckered a bunch of people into believing it and they need those people to believe it, or it's going to be exposed that it's all just bullshit. and that, personally is why I'm not a big fan of doxing because I, I don't think Most people in there are inherently bad. I think they got really wrapped up in something when they were really vulnerable and just really needed something. did you guys know that this was based off of a real person?

Lauren 15:51

I could have guessed. I mean, I kind of had that feeling all the way throughout the movie, because they would have had to get their ideas from somewhere.

Brad 15:57

Australia though, right? That's where it's in Australia. Like I knew a lot of Australian guys. the drugs that were kind of intertwined into the movie somehow, that definitely was a thing that was a reality though, like the heroin epidemic. I mean, we know it now very well in North America, but I think it predated us maybe over there because of its proximity to like Asia and the drug networks and stuff like that. So I think this all ties into sort of the vulnerabilities of these. populations of people, like not necessarily, you know, removing the privilege of that one person that's in the movie, because that also exists. That is true. there is a wide range of people that get involved in the movement. So I'm kind of glad that they did toss that in there because it really isn't, a movement that's just for like street kids. people may end up on the streets as we all know, but it doesn't start out that way in a lot of the cases. Right. and I think that's sort of like a risk factor thing that I think we can learn. like, there are some positive takeaways from this. I think if that makes sense.

Samantha 17:03

like what?

Brad 17:05

what we can learn from it. You may end up, in a very violent group of people. There's drugs, there's alcohol around, there's sexual abuse, there's assault, there's a lot of bad that comes with it. And I think movies like, American History X or, the real Hollywood, this one wasn't quite. Like you said, A list Hollywood stuff. this is pretty lower rent. And I think they were meaning to do that in a lot of ways, but also I don't think there was big funders that were gonna sit there and go, Ooh, I'd love to, do a movie about actual neo Nazis. tough time pulling the strings on that of thing, right?

Lauren 17:41

also, like, some of the scenes of where they were living in the warehouse and shit, it did remind me of, the time that I had lived in the basement of this internet cafe. Like, I did become homeless because of my involvement in bad choices. So I remember that time, and I'm like, okay, so they did actually capture some of this, where it's like, you think that, you're living, this glorious life, or I don't know what words to use here, but, in your own head, you're this huge guy in the movement, but meanwhile, no, like, look at your surroundings. Like, you're not looking at reality.

Brad 18:10

Yeah, you're not the master race. You haven't mastered even how to not be in poverty

Samantha 18:16

Yeah, how to, how to pay a bill. I guess yeah, there, I mean look, there is a lot to glean from the movie. I just watched it very recently for the first time, so I think I am, I don't want to say like having a visceral reaction to it, but It was a lot to take in. and I didn't expect it to be as just explicitly violent as it was. but I mean, also, even when you look at the end, like the second in command tries to leave the first in command says no. And then the second in command ends up killing him that. I just think, you know, when you talk about the infighting and all of that and how it was the girlfriend because he hit her, broke up with her and evicted her, she called the police, like, there's tons of infighting, there's tons of vindictive behavior, it was all just really gross, but yeah, the movie is based on this guy named Dane Sweetman and Jeffrey Wright, the director, wrote him in prison, And so like at the end when Hando and Devi are fighting and Hando's like, I'll chop your legs off. It's because Dane Sweetman, cut one of his victim's legs off, like just totally took them off. and he ended up going to prison for a while and was released shockingly. but I think the guy claims that he's reformed. But I think this movie was a tough watch. Like, who would you guys recommend this to? I personally, like I said, I would recommend it to me. You know, like maybe early teenager me and just been like, yeah, this sucks and this is what the movement is. If it's not in the rhetoric, it's in the action this is ultimately what everyone thinks Rahoah is going to be. this is what the training is for. This is what all that stuff is for. This is what they're talking about when they say like, awakened Europeans trying to keep their legacy like, These guys just find blonde women. They don't really care as long as you can carry a child. Like, it's just gross. it was definitely sensationalized in some ways. but it's even hard to say that because it's not necessarily untrue. I don't know. Maybe I'm still processing the movie. You guys go. You guys talk.

Lauren 20:22

Actually, I think there wasn't one meaningful part for me. when Davy, is staying with his grandmother, he doesn't want to wear the flight jacket around her or really tell her anything. So, obviously, he does have some good stuff in his life. It's just, he's trying to balance that with the bad choices. So, I feel like that was a struggle for almost everybody who was there.

Brad 20:40

So many people that I knew particularly one guy comes to mind. He would like throw his flight jacket in his backpack before going in his house. his parents didn't know shit about who he was when he went out, you know, and that, that lends itself to this idea of do these guys really believe you know, if you're not willing to walk around as that's your badge of honor, like that's your shit, then you don't believe that. you don't believe that you're hiding everything like, and that's, I think that's so clear in the sense of, this is also coming from the work that I do outside of, going on podcasts. just listening to people, they didn't join it for the beliefs. They didn't join it for the violence or whatever, they just joined it because they had no friends, they had no life, they had no, social being to themselves. So they group, Obviously, if you meet the criteria, which is very low, white in most cases and male in most cases, then you make the cut like you're in. and that, I think the move, this movie did that a lot of justice in the sense of like, There's so many people with, regret, self, you know, self doubt, all that kind of stuff. And in that group of Hando and Davy and, you know, some of the younger kids that got involved there too, and this was, I think, consistent in This Is England as well, throwaways. They're kind of like street, you know, where do they go? Where do they end up? So these people open, Open their arms and say, Hey, come, come into our group. I mean, I think that's pretty consistent. And when we talk about the idea of not being ideologically motivated, I think that's true in a lot of cases. I don't know, Lauren, in your case, but like, I know that, you know, we were in and around some of the same people. You can see the ones that don't, don't believe, really, but they, they are there, they believe in their friends, they believe in that bit, I think they're portraying Davey like that, because he had shame, he was going around with all this guilt, about his involvement with Hando, and, he was also feeling guilty about Wanting to throw away a friendship with his buddy. even though he knew he was a violent, Person and all this kind of stuff so you can see that he was really pained by all of it Right, and then of course what we know what the outcome is, but I don't think it pushes the the boundaries in that sense I think it's pretty consistent with what is actually happening in real world skinhead

Lauren 23:05

yeah, Brad, like you said, the movement fulfills needs, like whatever those needs may be for the person. And I think actually for Hando, what I could see with him is he likes that sense of power and control. So Lord only knows what happened to him when he was younger, like they didn't show any of that, but we can throw out guesses if we want. But you can tell that he likes that validation of, being the leader of that group.

Samantha 23:26

Yeah. Hando gives very like, I had a lot of stepdads vibes. which sucks. something that I've noticed in all these movies and that does, when I really think about it, me or my experience is that the two people in charge, there's always the one who's very strategic and I don't want to say stoic, but Very politically minded or very strategically minded and then there's like the wild card and that person is always in leadership because everyone's like, well, if we don't put him in leadership, he's just going to kill someone. is that true in your experiences? Because that was definitely true in mind.

Lauren 24:03

I would say true in some of them not so true and others, like, I do remember the wild card being in the leadership when I was 1st there, So, trying to remember, his whole vibe and everything, yes, he did give off sociopath vibes, totally not going to play two ways about that, but he always managed to, like, stay remarkably calm, or, like, so it seemed. But at the same time, whenever you're around him, you're like, man, this guy's cold as fuck.

Samantha 24:29

Yeah.

Brad 24:30

truth you know, anyone can rise to be the king should have turned mountain. I know I say this a lot, but you can get there. And it doesn't matter what bad thing you want to be a part of. And I think this movie does that though. It, places Hando on a top of shit mountain with his flag going, I am actual shit up here. Come join me. And that is like, that's the movement though. I remember speaking with a guy when I was a really young kid, you know, just as I was joining the movement way back in the day. He was this older guy and I wondered often wondered like, you know, when I was at home having clear thoughts why is this? Guy in his mid 30s hanging out with 18 year old boys Like what's he doing here? And then I like watched The video of like Bill Riccio down in I think Texas or Louisiana or wherever the hell that guy was So, this, this is the thing though, you start to realize that the strangest people come to lead the most. violent and sociopathic types of movements, right? it's not an attractor of folks with, you know, no criminal history, and that's often touted as kind of like, Oh, that guy is crazy. he's on the dangerous offenders list. I remember there was one guy who that was his claim to fame. And I'm like, Ooh, that's awesome. That's great, man. Like how do I get on there? And it's like, you never want to be on that list. That is literally where you never want to be,

Samantha 25:58

Meanwhile, in the group that I was in, and I'm sure other groups, if a hate crime did take place and someone was arrested for it. Every leader was running to the rosters to see like, Oh shit, was that guy in our group? If it is, we have to delete everything about them. Like we praise these people, but then we're also like, well, they're not like us. They're not exactly like us. we're not the violent one or we're not the problems. And those guys didn't start off as the problems either. They became the problems the longer they stayed in. And I think that's, I think maybe that's the issue I have with the movie. It's kind of annoying that as I'm talking to you guys about it, I'm like, shit, you guys are making me respect this movie, even though I don't like it. But I also think the problem I have with that is that it is just abject violence. You don't walk into the film and see them being radicalized to this violent behavior. It's just there. And I think that is a misrepresentation of the far right. anytime anyone in the far right says, I'm not violent, there's always a dot, dot, dot yet. And I think in this movie, because in the first five minutes they assault and terrorize three Asian people, there's kind of a like, well, this just makes it seem like. the violence is the outlet like, you're joining this because you're a violent person and you just want to be a violent person like no, a lot of people join for so many other reasons. I think maybe that's what I don't like about it, that it simplifies the outcome

Brad 27:18

I might say here, there was this timeline of people within the movement, at least from when I joined and when this movie came about in the 90s, I think it was 92 or something that this movie. so we have to think about what films we're doing at this time too. So there was this movie, there was A Clockwork Orange that was, you know, a touted film for skinheads too because it was this gratuitous violent thing that happened. don't know

Samantha 27:43

loved A Clockwork Orange.

Brad 27:45

So, in that movie, there's these parts where, obviously, it's conspiracy laden, there's some pretty weird shit that goes on with that, there's some violence that is just celebrated throughout it, because that's what their little cell of people do, so I think this Romper Stomper movie was like, how do we make this one about skinheads like A Clockwork Orange. the difference for me though is so A Clockwork Orange I think is, it is also profiling insecurity in such a way that they need to do more and more and more and more drugs and bad things but it really does. talk about the breakdowns of that and what the consequences are and mental health and all that. So it hits some other points, but Romper Stomper just didn't really go there. It didn't really get into details about shit that I felt like it should start talking about like in the movie Like you're in mid watching it. You're like shouldn't they pan over and go well heroin's bad. So is rape like they should start like, you know Not just sort of pass by it

Samantha 28:51

and I feel like when you were talking about, did you ever read Clockwork Orange? in the book, he, he grows out of it. In the last chapter, he's just like, I, I matured, this isn't good, but I guess in the U. S., in order for the movie to be made, they had to take that part out of it, which I thought was, at the time, I thought it was really badass when I was like 16, and like, you know, an edgelord, but now, It's dangerous. you had brought up the zone of interest earlier, and I think the zone of interest does a really good job of just observing this family. It doesn't really pass judgment on them, but it also doesn't give them any sympathy, whereas I think Romper Stomper There are moments where, like, when Hando and Gabrielle are, in bed and laying down, like, it's a very tender moment, and you're like, oh, okay, these are people, but there's a split second of that before there's more insane amounts of violence, so such a, a whiplash of, like, our, our What are we supposed to take from this movie? Like, yes, the lifestyle is bad, but in almost every other film that we've watched in this review, we see that there are people, we see that there's regret, and in this one, the guy Davey denounces the far right, or denounces this extremist ideology, but he still kills the guy. So there's just such a weird, like, I don't know if that point was to say that, there is a point where you get too far and you will end up committing violence for some reason, but I just, I think, I don't know, I, it just didn't, it didn't portray things in a cohesive way I could see some young kid in a rebellious era watching this and being like, you know, But yeah, like I'm gonna take back my country and like, I'm gonna do something, you know, and I, I think that's, that's what I don't like about it is that I'm still so on the fence about this movie. I'm glad that you guys are talking to me about it because

Lauren 30:51

You know, the one thing that always drives me nuts about a lot of these movies, is, that they make it seem like disengagement is that easy that you can denounce it within one day. And I'm like, no, disengagement is over time for many folks. And for me, like, it was piece by piece. And it's also the same case for many other people who come through our services whose stories that we've listened to. And I also remember this when I was getting out. People saying, oh, I thought you should left that shit behind, and me having to explain, listen, it's a process, and not even one that I can navigate or explain very well right now, because I wasn't getting services, through anything like this at the time. I didn't even know it existed at the time. So eventually I started asking people, like, where do you get this idea from that you can leave it overnight? Oh, because American History X, the guy. got out while he was in jail and now of course I read the book that it was based on and it was actually a way slower process than the movie made it look like.

Samantha 31:46

well, how do you portray the de radicalization process in a movie? are there any movies that do that? In a way that, and it doesn't have to be Far Right, like it could be another kind mental change. But are there any movies that really actually accurately say this is not an overnight thing?

Lauren 32:06

I feel like you would need an entire separate movie on that subject alone.

Brad 32:10

it isn't something that happens like that, because human beings aren't like that. think about that for a second, the people that were involved in American History X or whatever, even the guys who were in prison in that, like the black dudes that were all, in that same prison in that movie. In reality, though, those people, when they hit the streets again, say they leave the gang, how long does it take you to disengage from, your lifestyle. Like, Lauren has talked about this, you talk about it in your book, the way you're living your life doesn't just change overnight. You're not like, oh yeah, okay, I left the group. You're a person that

Samantha 32:47

what about when you get home and you're in the same house that has the same holes in the wall, that has the same clothes that you wore, that, you know, all of your old associates stop by?

Brad 32:57

All of that shit and more. Right? deradicalization people I work with in my work now, that I'm seeing what that process looks like for different individual people, and I'm like, fuck, this is gonna be it forever.

Samantha 33:11

do you think that's why so many people find it hard to believe that formers Like I have no doubt in my mind that the three of us we're good, I do not worry about me being at risk going back. I'm not worried about you guys being at risk going back. Do you think that's why it's hard for the public to believe that we could possibly be public servants or professionals because there is not really an understanding Those thoughts to begin with, to understand that, like, you don't just wake up and say, Racism is bad. I do think we've done more introspection than most people because we've had to tear down ourselves, the systems that we live in, the privileges that we have, the understanding that I can't think of any violent black nationalists that get to and ask and expect forgiveness. we are afforded a lot more. leniency than a lot of other people. And I think the public just doesn't like the idea of like, oh, you're just good now. Like, you just had those thoughts and you just changed. I just, I don't think people want to believe it.

Lauren 34:17

Well, it's kind of hard sometimes because in 1 sense, like, there's no way we should have to recount our story over and over again for whoever wants to hear it. But in another, it's like, okay, can we show the public a little bit more what that process looks like?

Samantha 34:32

Yeah, but they're like, I can't imagine having an, you know, a 90 minute feature film of someone just like writing in their journal every day, you know, or working it out in therapy every day. We would, because we'd be like, man, and we wouldn't like, it'd be one of those things where the final seed is like them going into like, a club or doing something and not whipping their head around to find every exit, not immediately thinking that like, someone is a slur, and we're all fuck yeah, breakthrough, you're finally living life, and everyone else would be like, what the fuck is that? Who cares? Like, it's such an invisible process that I can't see, in the foreseeable future, this being something that people can, can ever fully understand.

Lauren 35:17

mean, all the times when I will go out, if I would get, bumped into in the middle of the store, having to remind myself, we do not clock the person. We say, I'm sorry and move on.

Samantha 35:27

Yeah. I am nice.

Brad 35:28

That will continue though. I was always taught you know, respect people if they respect you or whatever it is. And, if somebody throws a fist at you, you throw a fist back at them. Like, that's the way that goes, but living a lifestyle of Peace. Right and being a peaceful person is is changing your personality I get it why the general public isn't sitting there going, Nope, those are the people in Romper Stomper. Fuck them. Don'tdo not trust them. They're violent at heart. and probably for the most part, unless people like you're saying, like us in this room, we know we've done enough work where we're not there. We're not living that life where we're consumed by violence, we're consumed by that action response. Psychologically, we've all probably been, to therapy, to, lots of different self help groups. We've come through life after hate. we've worked at it. But yeah, there's tons of people out there who have similar experiences to us who are sitting there going, no, I still want to punch that guy at the grocery store. Sorry to use your analogy, Lauren, but that's okay though.

Samantha 36:33

Yeah, well, I totally agree with you. And I think what sucks about it is like, normal people have violent thoughts. Normal people get cut off in traffic and they're like, I'm going to fucking kill you. I'm going to ruin your life. I'm going to key your car and slash your tires and Like awful things. But because we had a certain ideology attached to it, we're not allowed to have. a bad day. We're not allowed to be in a bad mood. And I do believe that people don't change at their core. And I don't mean that in terms of once you're racist, you're always racist. I think that can change. I think myself, I've always had the very personality that I have now. And I stuffed it down and I hid it when I was in the movement because I didn't want to be seen as goofy or eccentric because that's not what the movement's about. You're supposed to be fucking normal and there's nothing wrong or weird about you.

Lauren 37:27

Well, it's interesting, you bring this up, because I was thinking about this recently and even had several discussions with other people about this recently. don't confuse assertiveness with aggression. being a good person or being better than we used to be does not mean bend over and take other people's shit.

Samantha 37:43

Yeah. And I think that's where I am an extremely emotional and temperamental person and I like that about myself. I like that I add a little bit of spice to my every day. I don't think I'm interested in harming anyone. I'm not interested. I now, I've gotten to a point where I feel guilty. If I think something bad about someone for whatever reason, if they insulted me, they did something in my head. I'm like, well, I'm so grateful that the biggest problem in my life today is that someone was mean to me and not that my life was at risk because I was in the far right movement. Like I've trained myself to be so fucking docile that sometimes it's hard for me to stand up for myself. And that's not fair. That's not fair that just because we were once shitty people, suddenly we have to take everyone else's shit. I don't think that should happen. I do think, if we want to get back to Romper Stomper, that Russell Crowe's character absolutely should have been institutionalized. I think he, I think he's someone that used the movement or the ideology as a carrier for his violent tendencies. Absolutely. I think he would have killed. The girl he was sleeping with, if people weren't around, I think he is an abject. I just think he is a indiscriminate psychopath, but it's a lot easier to target things when you're racist too.

Lauren 39:07

sorry, one thing about the non consensual sex, now that the girl's been brought up again. thought about this 1 recently too. So, you know, how y'all were mentioning that typically they do go for girls quite a bit younger than them because guess what would happen if they went after someone closer to our age or closer to their age that has some self respect.

Samantha 39:25

they'd be emasculated. They'd be laughed out of the room. I think about that all the time. I used to date all these older guys. Again, I'm interrupting and I'm sorry for it, but I was on like a triple date and all my friends, we were all 19, and all the boyfriends were 33. I remember looking around and they were all like, yeah, we're unmarried. We don't have kids. we're basically unicorns. You know, we don't have any baggage. And I was like, you guys aren't unicorns. You're fucking leftovers. And now when I think about all these guys in the movement going after these young girls, it's like, of course, of course, you're going to try and slut shame a girl. You need a girl without experience cause she's not going to know you're bad.

Lauren 40:00

it's just funny that this conversation's been brought up a couple times. for me, I actually did write out, a dating, basically red flag list. one of them actually specifically says men who date younger women, because they can see that women their age, think they're a lowlife who can't support their own existence. That is right on the list. And some of my other ones came right from the movement. It's like, yeah, this is shit that I just don't want and I can't believe I actually went for it when I was younger.

Samantha 40:30

Yeah. And like accepted it. I, I knew a Nazi that said he didn't go down on women because he didn't want to empower them. A, he's got it wrong. If you're good at that, a woman will do whatever you want her to do. but B, you got a weak tongue, dawg. Like, that's really what it comes down to, you just don't know how to do it, and you're just trying to make an excuse.

Lauren 40:49

it all depends on preferences, because different people like different things. But anyways, I just don't remember the sex being ever very good when I was there. it was always about them.

Samantha 40:58

all honesty, I think a lot of it was about loneliness. I don't think they cared about who was on the other side or who they were in. They cared that there was a warm body there next to them. I understand that feeling of I just need someone to hug me or touch me or be affectionate with me, but not to the extent of where I am Violating someone else's sense of agency.

Brad 41:21

as I've been listening to you guys talk about how, the men were, I think one of the things that we're understanding more and more, and, and we're ever present in all of the movies we were talking about, whether it be, Romper Stomper, the main one we're talking about today, or, American History X, or even, the movie about Auschwitz, The misogyny in all of those films, is something very interconnected and in real life, the misogyny in the movement, is so present on all levels, Nazi generals way back in the day, and the way that they were doing things, to, the, narratives that were, were, I believe it was well done in the sense of, showing that they don't care in those movements about who women are Usually one of the biggest points is, yeah, white race, the master race, we need women to make kids. but they treat their women like total garbage. And I think that that is shown in these films in different ways, of course. But, you know, this, the, the romper stomper, examples were very, very, baseline. In the sense of showing, non consensual sex. I think in the zone of interest, it was like property,

Samantha 42:36

Yeah, absolutely.

Brad 42:38

However, that woman was running that family.

Samantha 42:41

but I think that's also a part of the reality too is like romper stomper doesn't show it because all the women come off as very docile and very subservient of like, can I please do this? Or I'm just going to apologize or whatever. I think you said it, it was just very baseline, there wasn't much to it, it was very like, this is violence, Nazis are violence, and they listen to bad music, and it's like, I get it, at the end of the day, when we make jokes about Nazism, we'll make those jokes, about Nazis are being so dumb, and they're gay, and they're this, and they're that, but there's so much more Complexity to it that we get to joke about because we have that past, but I don't like the idea of the general public watching this and being like, Oh, so that's exactly what you all did in the movement. It's like, No, not quite. and I think that's where the nuance lacks in this and I'm not particularly impressed Again, I think Russell Crowe's character was a psychopath. You put him in any situation, you could put him in the Peace Corps, you could put him in anything, and he would be a violent psychopath. It's not just about his racist ideology, I think that's how his brain was wired, and I think that's where I just get annoyed by that broad strokes this guy is a psychopath because he's a nazi No, that guy's a nazi because he's a psychopath and nazism gives you that out.

Lauren 43:57

being the leader of that group obviously did not help matters for him.

Samantha 44:00

No, and again, there's always the one kind of nice guy that keeps everyone's pants on and then the other guy who's only in charge because he would outright just kill everyone else in the group if he's not. also the actor who played Davey, do you guys know about him? What his deal was? Right after they filmed this movie, he had to go to a court sentence where he was potentially facing prison time, and he was so afraid of it that he actually just jumped in front of a train and committed suicide before the movie was even released. He was 23.

Lauren 44:35

Well, actors are humans just like the rest of us. Lord knows, what they've done before.

Samantha 44:40

yeah, art imitates life, imitates art, but do you guys have anything that you want to add, any closing thoughts before I wrap this up?

Brad 44:47

I can say one thing actually, I never thought I'd ever be sitting here reviewing these revered movies I think it's good also for. Members of the film industry to listen to us to what hasn't been done, what hasn't been looked at and what things should be talked about, so that people can connect with these movies a little more. And it's not about sensationalizing it. It's really about, knowing those key things. I think is. useful to know going forward what, topics need to be covered.

Samantha 45:19

listeners were brought us trying to say is that we are hireable. If you need consultation for your far right or disengagement films, please let us know. Email us at the daily former at life after hate dot org. we are reasonably priced. it's so funny to me that when we describe our stories in real life, people are like, that's absurd. That just happened. And then they watch movies like this and they're like, yeah, that seems accurate. And we're trying to be like, no, it's the opposite. there's not a Tarantino blood fountain. Every time we get in a fight, you know, I think you really just touched on something important I think that's why I wanted to do this movie series. I keep trying to look and see if they consulted with anyone in the far right, and see what research they really did. or if they were just kind of like, yeah, I saw American History X and that seemed thorough enough. Like, it's not. so I'm really grateful and I'm really glad that, we get to do this. Cause. It's kind of fun to not have to talk about your story all the time, and you get to kind of, flex your knowledge of, real life and be like, that's bullshit, or wow, that's actually pretty real. what I did want to do is I wanted to quickly shout out, we have two interns, one of which does all of the, Research for the films that we watch, and I asked her to write her own take on it, and she writes extremely detailed takes, so I asked her to distill them a little bit, and she did, so I just want to read it because she does a lot of work, and it's incredible research, this is our intern minute, says, I think that Romper Stomper represents a powerful depiction of neo Nazi violence, but does so through a lens of sensationalism that compromises its effectiveness as a serious critique of the far right ideologies. The film's focus on dramatic violence and personal drama detracts from a more nuanced exploration of the historical and socio political context that underpin extremism, leaving its portrayal of these issues somewhat superficial and ethically problematic. thank you guys for talking. I enjoyed this conversation more than I thought I would have. I really thought this was going to be 15 minutes where we'd all just be like, this movie's garbage. Goodbye. so I'm great that you guys Did not completely write it off the way that I did because now I don't like it, but I Respect it a little bit more. I will talk to you guys next time Thank you so much for hanging out.