Movie Night- Jojo Rabbit

Jojo Rabbit is discussed.

CW: This episode contains discussion of death, wartime violence, murder, life is squalor, among other things. Feel free to pass on this!


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Transcript

Samantha 0:13

Welcome to movie night, a film discussion from the daily former. Today we're talking about Jojo Rabbit, a 2019 film by Taika Jojo Rabbit is about a young boy nicknamed Jojo Rabbit who, in the absence of his father, wants to join Hitler Youth and even imagines Adolf Hitler as his best friend. As the film goes on, the politics and complexities of war reveal themselves, ultimately leaving Jojo to realize that maybe what he wants to believe is wrong. As with all episodes, this movie depicts very dark topics and scenes of violence, abuse, substance use, etc., so please feel free to skip it out if you don't think that this is a good idea for you to watch. With me, I have Jamie, Lauren, Angela, and Brad, and we are just going to be chatting. as always, the first thing I want to know from everyone is what is your relationship to the movie? What were we expecting?

Lauren 1:00

I had actually heard pretty good things about the movie, although last night was my first time watching it. I almost picked up the book, about a year or two ago, I think, but my brother actually told me that it's deeply disturbing and if I want to save my sanity then don't read it.

Samantha 1:13

Oh, wow.

Lauren 1:14

The movie actually I found it a little bit weird sometimes just with some of the humor that they threw into it, but I could also see why they did that.

Samantha 1:21

Yeah. We'll be, we'll definitely be touching on that. Cause there's quite a bit of controversy about it as well. did you, did you like the movie ultimately?

Lauren 1:30

Actually, yeah. once I kind of got into the storyline and saw, the themes or, like, what kind of message it was trying to send out, I'm like, okay, this was really well done.

Samantha 1:40

All right. Anyone, Jamie, Angela, Brad, any of you guys?

Angela 1:44

once I started watching it, I realized I'd seen it before.

Samantha 1:49

Oh, wow.

Angela 1:49

And I don't remember how long ago, but there were scenes that stuck out and were unforgettable once I rewatched it. And I'm a dark humor kind of person, so I actually enjoyed the humor in it, although I know that that is not the same experience for everyone, but I also thought it was well done and that it almost seemed like it was made for a new generation, and tried to break through with certain ideas and themes in different ways than maybe I was used to or like old school films I don't want to crack too much of it right now, but I definitely want to talk about that dark humor and like how I viewed it and kind of processed it.

Samantha 2:45

Yeah, absolutely. Jamie Brad.

Jamie 2:49

So I've seen it twice now. I watched it when it came out. Of course, I totally forgot what it was about. But then going into it this time, you know, I started to recollect about, oh, you know, the, the overall themes and the ending, because the ending is pretty, pretty damn powerful. So I knew what to expect in, in that manner, but still watching it again, it was still really emotional. Just, just, you know, Seeing the ending and the impact it had. And I think it's a brilliant movie, and I also love dark humor too, so I thought they did a great job with that. Just the little snippets and what, I thought were brilliant.

Samantha 3:22

Yeah, absolutely. Brad.

Brad 3:24

So initially I'm like, all right, another comedy about Nazis. I mean, I have the dark humor thing going on too. So whatever, Inglorious Bastards, similar kind of feel like, how do we make fun of things? I mean, this, I feel like we still need to make fun of it as well as embrace, like you said, there's that emotional design in it too, Jamie. I did feel that too. and it didn't go to a place where I thought the humor shouldn't go. Like there are some movies out there that you're like, what the, that's not where that should have gone. So,

Samantha 4:00

Yeah.

Brad 4:01

so yeah.

Samantha 4:02

Yeah. I, I totally agree with that. I had recently made a friend who was Jewish and they were like, I think they thought that this was going to be a litmus test for me, like they knew a little bit about my past and I think they were like, Oh, watch the movie. And I only knew that it was about a kid who Hitler was his imaginary friend or something. And so I was really apprehensive. I was still Like just a couple of years out, like I wasn't really in a place where I felt like I had the mental fortitude to watch this and not be impacted by it. but I, I thought this movie was really wonderful. I was so pleasantly surprised everything about it just really spoke to me. Let's talk about it. the movie itself actually got a little bit of flack because a lot of people said that it was, too nice to Hitler. And when I first watched it, I didn't think that at all. I was like, this is a young kid. this is what a kid would imagine Hitler would be like, you can't understand that kind of atrocity on that kind of scale. So it would make sense that like, if you don't really have a job, you're looking for a role model, here's this guy leading a country, like, yeah, you would, you would want Hitler to be this encouraging person to you. And I read this interview with Taika Waititi, the director, and he brought up the producers, he brought up Inglourious Basterds, where like Jewish people are minorities or marginalized people that depict Nazis. It's kind of a way of taking the power back of like, we're going to make Nazis look silly, we're going to make them look self important and self aggrandizing and all these things. Also, Taika Waititi could not get anyone to play Hitler. That's why he ended up playing Hitler himself because he was like, no one was willing to take the risk and Taika, I think he was perfectly on tone. Like, especially always offering cigarettes to the kids. he's like this goofy guy, but like, he's still a bad person. He's still an adult offering children cigarettes. So I really liked it. I appreciated the humor. It won a ton of awards regardless of that controversy. And I don't know, I would love to hear someone else's perspective or, or understanding,

Angela 6:07

I think it goes very deep. in a dark humor way. you know, there are so many things that I can think of throughout the movie itself, but also the underlying themes of it. It is a childish way to view such atrocities, like you said. however, It makes me think of things that I've read about Hitler historically, about his behavior, his actions, his attitude, his personality, and the way that they depict him, it undermines him, it undermines the power of his character. That, he had at the time, and I could see him, throwing tantrums, you know, like, stomping, I want this, and I want that, I can see that it's relatable in that way, but also, What better way to undermine the idea of Nazism but to pull out real things and make fun of them? For instance, I forget the names, but the two officers that were in charge of teaching the kids and they kept getting demoted? They were obviously gay. There was something going on there, and that's the kind of stuff that, the kind of hypocrisy that we have seen throughout history. With ideas like, all people of color are bad, but this is a good person of color. Or, right, like, so we see these different myths. about whole groups of people, we see a deconstruction of Nazism, but in ways that are digestible. Like, when you put it in a humorous way, it's easier to make those connections with the themes and the underlying motivations. And Like, the kind of shit that they had dudes saying, script wise, was hysterical. I found myself laughing out loud several times, and like, deep. sincere laughs where I was like, oh man, oh, you know, but then there are also those hard hitting scenes that slam you back to reality and what actually transpired. And those reminders, I think are such like the comedy and those scenes. are so opposing. You know, you go from this little laughter that you feel like, oh shit, maybe I shouldn't be laughing, but this is funny, to those scenes of the mom. dangling. It slams you back to the reality of the actual situation and what better way to reflect the silliness, the immaturity, the stupidity the ignorance with the reality of the consequences of those things. And I will mute myself now. Thank you.

Samantha 9:43

no, that was great. also thought that they really smartly Depicted children having to grow up so fast in wartime, his friend Yorkie, that every time he saw him, he just had like, just a more jaded and cynical point of view. And he would just say the most ridiculous adult things as a nine year old boy. And it actually really struck me. I don't remember if I talked about it before in here, but my grandmother was in Hitler Youth and she had said that Hitler would have parades and stuff like that and they would give away puppies. And then as time went on, you get attached to the puppy and then his, his officers, Would go to your house and be like, oh, you love Hitler. Hitler gave you that puppy. Do you love the puppy? And they'd be like, yeah, of course we love the puppy. And they'd be like, well, kill the puppy and prove you love Hitler more. And families were put in these impossible, inhumane situations. And I appreciated that. That was depicted without

Angela 10:43

The visual.

Samantha 10:44

yeah. And also exactly what you said, Angela, where like they, they took these things out and made fun of them. But these are things that actually happened, you know, and so I feel like there was, it was a, it was a surprisingly digestible way of being like, it's wild because you could, you could literally be like, yeah, right. If you're Hitler, you really have to kill a bunny or kill a dog. I'm going to Google that. Like, that's so silly. And then it's like, Oh, that actually happened. So I thought that was like a very, yeah. smart way that they show these kids as the haggard, war torn people and all of the adults don't know what the hell they're doing.

Angela 11:19

Right. And that kid was so pleasant. And like so relatable. Like this clumsy, young little boy who should be playing with like magnet toys or legos or something like that, but he has taken on all this adult responsibility and the processing of the message behind everything and he makes it so practical like Oh, but time to stop catching up. I have to go be a soldier now And his uniform's like hanging off of him. He can barely hold his rifle Like, it, it is. It's, it was a strange mix of relatable with really serious, deep topics.

Samantha 12:09

Jamie, Lauren, Brad, what are your thoughts on it?

Brad 12:11

I feel like that that's what's missing in a lot of movies trying to like characterize some of these things they just like throw this real offensive shit out there and then you're just supposed to chew on that but this was like not that they didn't they didn't do it that way so I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else but that's that's how I was feeling with how it was just like they must have like thought that through with each person that they were adding into this you know very strange cast but I think it worked.

Jamie 12:40

Yeah, I like that merchant dude, especially when he first showed up cause he's a pretty tall dude, right? And you know, he's standing there and he's towering over the other guy and he leans forward. To talk down to him and you can see the other guy kind of looking up showing almost that hierarchy or you have to buy into that hierarchy, I just like that bit where it's just like, he's towering over him looking down at him and it's like, yes, sir. Okay, sir. But he doesn't really believe the shit, but he has to buy into it because of the hierarchy.

Samantha 13:06

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there were so many visual representations of what was happening and what was going on. do I put this? I know that it's historical fiction, right? Like, there's no proof that this Jojo Rabbit kid exists or anything like that. But what would you call this? Historical fiction, a parody, because I don't think it's a parody, even though it's so humorous and it's so sensationalized in some ways. I don't think it's a parody of a war movie. I think if anything, Taika Waititi tried to make something that you can watch that depicts the horrors of this without, without, I don't know, it just, it just made it something that you could show a kid this movie and it's going to hit where it needs to hit. It's going to be funny where it needs to be funny. And I think a child would take away the message of like, yeah, Nazis are obviously bad and stupid. And I think. That's the perspective that he was coming from where he was like, Yeah, we, we all know that they were the bad guys. So let's make a movie that kind of teases that about them.

Angela 14:11

to me, just seems like a different way to explain or represent the serious topics and the serious nature of the events that were happening back then. Everything from the fact that there absolutely was a resistance to the Nazis, that there were people who were not Jewish who were trying to help Jews who were willing to put their own lives and families at stake What was the girl's name that was being hit? Elsa? bringing that story really humanized and put, some human face to what was happening. It's not just something we, oh, this happened long ago, we heard about it, like. You know, it's some abstract thought in our brains, like it put a human face to it. It put a, a human story of someone who was experiencing life as a young woman, you know, discovering love, having all these different things and then having it all ripped away and suddenly you're alone. Your family's gone. You know, they're gone, gone.

Samantha 15:30

you're hiding in someone's cupboard with you've not, you haven't seen the, the, the God given son in however long.

Angela 15:36

Right. And then to have the interaction with Jojo, it crosses this line of understanding where, in reality, if I was her, which I can't even imagine being in that position, I would have wanted to slap the living shit out of that kid. I mean, the kind of things he said but then you see the arc of his character learning and growing and changing and he becomes more human as he kind of observes her humanity and it becomes so deep and it's hard when you're like wait a minute this is all the same movie But it is a really good way to get those kind of concepts slipped in right under the radar, kind of. Like, you don't even realize.

Lauren 16:35

she does actually slap him at the end of the movie, so I did find that quite funny. But I like how they had her character where it's like, alright, I'll interact with this kid, but don't expect me not to be a smartass.

Samantha 16:46

Yeah, what I've really liked throughout all of these movies or through a lot of them Is that the victims of these heinous things still try to keep their dignity? There's no like I'll do whatever you want. I'll do whatever you say. they know that this ideology is insane And they're just like if you're going to kill me anyway, why am I going to like give you this thing that you want? And I felt like it was in some ways I want to say I felt like the movie was kind of like a very coy, I don't want to say call to action, but like that is what I would say it's like in the far right. We're you know. Jewish people have horns and I've, I've heard the phrase they're demons in skin bags. A few times I've heard all of that stuff. You know, black people are just prone to violence. They're animals. And then they meet someone who's there and they're like, well, you're fine. But the rest of them are bad. Then they meet a second person. They're like, well, I mean, you know, it's still a minority. And like that, prejudice, they kind of have to grapple with it and reckon with it. And I thought that. Again, the film was really smart in forcing that interaction between the two of them and putting Jojo in a situation where he was like, well, I could tell on her, but then we'd all die and starts his self preservation. And then even after his mom is captured. He still has this like, I want to help her. I love her. I want to save her. she is a person and it's, it's just a very, I don't know. It was very touching. I think this movie makes me emotional in a very like sappy way.

Lauren 18:13

And of course he ends up having a crush on her. Like, I totally could have seen that happening from the start of the movie. And I'm like, okay, so we're talking about a ten year old kid. Friggin that's the age where you start acting on your hormones. Like, that was just kinda destined to happen.

Samantha 18:28

Also, this is the first movie that we've watched where the girl was like, you're too young. Like, I love you like a brother. You're a little kid to me. And he's like, yeah, but like, I'll be a man one day. And it's like, whatever, bro. But that was a very sweet, It was very wholesome. it's very weird to say that there's a wholesome movie about the far right, but I feel like this and Zone of Interest are the most like, different from the rest of the depictions of the far right, where this movie has like a comedic edge to it in a very sweet human way, and then Zone of Interest is obviously just devastating for what it lacks.

Angela 19:02

But also, there's that heart wrenching part where he stabs her. And it is like a collision between His feelings for her, his concepts and new reality of having lost his mother, where he understands now why he lost his mother and what was actually happening, plus confronting the beliefs That's an air quotes audience. Just so you know, you can't see me, but it's an air

Samantha 19:37

Listeners, she's air quoting.

Angela 19:39

It's, you know, like this reconciliation almost with reality, and what's causing that to happen and what he embraced and was living, breathing, doing everything for, has now crumbled before him. It's destroyed his family. It's not made him more of a man. It's not, you know, lent any strength. To anything, and in that moment when that scene happened and he stabbed her, it was like the breath went out of me.

Samantha 20:15

Yeah.

Angela 20:16

I just couldn't, we all know that moment when it clicks for you, like, Oh shit, I am wrong. I have been wrong this whole time. You feel duped almost you feel.

Samantha 20:33

And

Angela 20:33

You do, you feel sick, you feel dumb, you like, there's so many feelings that you feel. So that part of it, it was, it was like a gut punch, but it's important to see that because the reality is crumbling, but something new and beautiful is emerging at the same time.

Lauren 20:53

Well, and I can also kinda see that that scene where he tries to stab her, he is running on anger and grief. And my thing is, he's also pretty young, too, and I wouldn't expect this out of an adult, like, to think with the logic side of your brain after something like that. But he quickly realizes what he had just tried to do, and it's like, okay, it's not the fault of hers.

Samantha 21:14

Yeah. It, it's the base instinct of hate is actually so much easier than overcoming it and realizing that there are good and bad in every person and you know, all of the standard, platitudes that you want to tell people that she's a fucking person and you're, you're, you're hurting people. But yeah, absolutely. I, do also want to ask What do we think the far right would think of this movie? Because Hitler's just so fucking playful in this movie and so silly and just so likable as a pal, but then like, they also probably hate the fact that, I, I'm 100 percent sure that they probably called this 13 year old girl, a Jewish whore or something like that. And she duped the white man and all of that stuff. And it's like, No, that's not it. So I was just curious if you guys have any takes of what their, what their hot and spicy takes of this movie might be.

Brad 22:07

I don't think they'd like the emotional parts that it's trying to draw out of you. cause they got to sit there and be, Oh, you know, that whole like tense, I can't connect with my emotional side bit. I, I know I went, Through that, when I was starting, because you can't connect with anything when you're, there. So they'd, have tough time with that kind of like sandpaper business. But I think the whole representation being even mildly effeminate or, or Gay,

Lauren 22:35

think if I watched it when I was younger, and like, especially when I was first in, so basically the more argumentative I get about something, the more wrong I typically am. that's what I've found. So that being said, I would've argued with this one upset up and down. And most of that is because it involved the whole feelings thing. Like I, I remember I did have, an experience like this, but on a way lesser scale when I was out in the streets at first. a guy had overdosed he was native and I ended up actually helping him. Thankfully he lived. But, in the back of my own head for years, I'm like, why the fuck did I even care? Now, of course, that's just, you know, what you do. But, because I've had that relatable experience, and if I was watching the movie just after this, it probably would've hit me. It's just that I would've denied it up and down

Samantha 23:22

That's what I was going to ask. Do you think this movie would get through to them? Because I feel like it's so juvenile. And again, because Hitler's basically just like a teddy bear I feel like this could get through to them. Like, it's so simple. It's impossible to misunderstand the message, but they still use all the platitudes and all the things about war. And he still has his friend who's like a true believer of like, I don't know. I just wonder if this movie could actually impact someone on the far right questioning the movement.

Lauren 23:51

for people questioning. Yes. For people not questioning, not so much, cause for me being as thin skinned as I used to be at the time of my involvement, I would have taken serious offense to the fact that they had made fun of Hitler and Nazi Germany. So much,

Samantha 24:06

Yeah, that's true.

Angela 24:07

Not to mention I would almost place money on the fact that many wouldn't even watch it because they would say this is propaganda made by non whites or Jews or, you know, whatever, and they're pushing their lefty message. So I would bet that there would be a certain percentage that wouldn't even have. the potential to be touched by the movie because they've refused to watch it from the beginning. I also think that people who are questioning, this might be a good way to get some of that message in there and give them more to question. But others who are entrenched in that, like, what you were describing, Lauren, the more wrong I am, the more wrong I'm gonna be. They would be, dug in and they would have such a wall up that the poignant parts probably wouldn't make it through.

Samantha 25:07

Well, then if okay, so then who, who would we recommend this movie to? I personally think it's just a good movie in general. I, I would recommend it to anyone that wants to watch something that's good and heartfelt and, and moving in some ways, but I don't know, who would you guys recommend the movie to otherwise?

Lauren 25:24

maybe for younger people before they ever dip their feet into anything like this.

Jamie 25:29

Yeah, I think that's a valid point because there's a, there's a really great line where the two kids are talking and he says you know, tell me everything about the Jews. And she's like, well, we're like you, but human. But it's such like a straightforward answer. And then when you go to such a great line, and then later on, he's like, oh, I want you to draw me a picture of where Jews live. And she draws a picture and she's like, yeah, that's where we live in your head. basically this is all in your head,

Lauren 25:57

Yeah, and actually, my favorite one was her claim about how sometimes when they sleep, they hang off the ceiling. Like, that is so something I would have said to somebody if I was her.

Angela 26:06

Yep.

Samantha 26:08

Yeah. She rules.

Angela 26:09

I think I would recommend it to just about anybody and then see what what falls out of that.

Samantha 26:17

Yeah, it's it's just a generally good movie. I'm going to touch on categories, When I was watching it, I couldn't really think of anything where I was like, wow, that's like a spot on portrayal, other than the most accurate or closest to the far right as I know it is like almost no one in the movie actually fit what someone in the far right what they claim is the perfect master race is there but they're all in there and they're all claiming they deserve to be there and it also seemed like a lot of people were questioning but just like no one really said no. And I, you know, something else that I thought about in it is Angela, you brought it up earlier that like the way that they were depicting Hitler, you could totally see Hitler being like that. And that's, that's something that I keep thinking about the person that got me into the far right. We had reconnected like a year or two after I had left just very briefly, something had happened that we like really didn't have a choice, but to talk about and he blamed me. he was like, you know, you could have just said no and we wouldn't have done it. Like I, I wouldn't have kept leading you down there. And I just kept thinking about that. Like Hitler's such a weird, eccentric, erratic, strange person, but no one said no. And it was only when he built his power, when people were starting to actively protest him, and then he didn't have to do any of the work, he just had his soldiers kill people, and I just kept thinking about that, like, Hitler was just a little, a little freakazoid, and like, no one No one stood up for the right thing.

Angela 27:49

No one pointed that out.

Samantha 27:51

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. as if the mustache didn't do enough of the work to let you know that he was odd.

Brad 27:56

Movies like this do paint a good picture of like there is some ha ha moments on these idiots for how they Look and How they act like the idiosyncrasies of it all like Hitler was a weird, dude Like I mean, let's be like straight up honest not not to mention all of the other crap that we know he did But just the general Personality traits of this person were very strange

Samantha 28:19

It's so weird. If he weren't a genocidal maniac, I could totally see him having like a mysterious benefactor and like several boyfriends and just like being a little art guy who like ate grapes and stuff like it still had the mustache. I feel like that's just part of who Hitler is. But like, yeah, It's so interesting that you guys made fun of Hitler. In my iteration. you'd straight to the wall if you made fun of Hitler. people were obsessed with him. Everyone thought that they were the reincarnation of Hitler. Everyone memorize his speeches and like just such LARPy embarrassing shit. You know, people that talk about being the master race, are certainly not the best that this world has to give. is the charitable way that I'm going to put it.

Lauren 29:04

in terms of humor, though, Sam, your iteration probably had, different humor than we did, but obviously humor was still there. And I feel like that's kind of what kept all of us from completely going off the deep end. Just putting that out there.

Samantha 29:16

dude. Yeah. I love a good pun or some good word play. And some of the like podcast names or the group names, they got me, they got me on the puns, man. other than everyone actually being a little, a little weirdo was there anything in there where you could have been like, Oh yeah, that's exactly the far, right.

Angela 29:34

You remember the part in the movie where the imaginary Hitler is talking about his pants and he's like, I think I have to go out on my hips.

Jamie 29:44

I love that bit.

Angela 29:47

and it, brings me back to where I'm at now. Like back then when I was involved, it seemed like such an important thing to dress the way we are told to dress. As a woman who was a skinhead, there was a certain dress code that you followed and that part in the move me made me reflect back Because now in retrospect, I'm like, oh my god We look like such fucking clowns the kind of shit that we wore and did and That part just like set me down this whole spiral of the fashion of it all so

Lauren 30:31

Yeah, I actually really found that same thing kind of caught my attention just because image was everything at the time. And basically it was our fear of vulnerability, hence we chose to look the way we looked. But I look back at pictures too and similarly I'm like, what the fuck was I thinking? I even told my mom one time, if I ever dress or behave like this again, just take me outside and shoot me, please.

Angela 30:53

Oh, my gosh. For real.

Jamie 30:55

I think my favorite look from that time was suspenders. why were dudes wearing suspenders? And like, you either had them up or you put them down cause you were ready to fight.

Lauren 31:04

Interestingly, I used to wear those things too, but I found them really annoying. they're not even practical.

Angela 31:09

I

Samantha 31:09

I cannot speak to any of this. So you guys

Angela 31:12

They were such a bad fashion choice. I hope you cut this out, Sam, but

Samantha 31:18

not.

Angela 31:18

I would wear them with my little skinhead girl outfit and I I very like, I don't give a fuck about anything. So if I was at a party, you know, like you would go to the parties or the warehouse shows or something and there's one bathroom and the line is always so long. You wait forever, you're about peeing your pants by the time you get in there. I would go pee outside, and I can't tell you the amount of times I was so drunk I pissed on my braces. Like, later, like the next day, I'd be like, Oh shit, like these smell like piss. There it went again.

Samantha 31:59

My god. All right, well, we're gonna take a moment

Angela 32:04

It's true. That was the reality of the dirty ass lifestyle it was back then.

Samantha 32:11

Funny. That's almost endearing if it weren't so fucking gross.

Angela 32:16

I know.

Samantha 32:18

That's

Angela 32:18

To be fair, I haven't only peed on my braces, I've peed on other

Samantha 32:23

I thought you were gonna say you pooped on them too, and I was like, Angela.

Angela 32:27

I don't know.

Samantha 32:28

was there anything in there that you didn't like about the movie? were there things where you're like, Oh, that's not. Like for what this movie is trying to do. This isn't right for it.

Angela 32:38

Seeing the very, very young children out fighting in a war, like, where there are explosions happening, like, right there, and you literally are seeing people, like, fly apart, yet there's 10 year olds out there. that was really impactful because I can see it happening. let's face it, in movements like that, as much as they oh, we're all a family, we're all this, they don't care about one another. And would totally sacrifice people be like, here's your gun, get out there and groove. You know, you're about this, but to see such young children in that position, even in this kind of movie, was kind of hard because you know what's happened.

Lauren 33:29

Well, and the part that pissed me off about those particular scenes is because I had kind of got to know this militia group or people that were trying to start one at one point. This was, like, closer to the end of my involvement. And this is some of the shit that they would do. They would bring their kids with them. They would teach them this. show them stuff to try to desensitize them. And I'm like, you guys are fucked. and I got to the point of thinking that, finally.

Samantha 33:52

Yeah, I never understood parents that were raising their kids like that. Like not only do your kids not have a filter and they're not gonna understand that this is supposed to be underground or whatever but like your Putting your kids in a position that like, that's so dangerous to have a child, think those things like God forbid that kids ever in a situation where like they're lost or they lose track of something or they need help. They're not going to approach tons of different people that could help them because they were raised to think that these are bad people. Like it's just such a wild Thing to be living.

Lauren 34:26

Yeah, that one actually reminded me of why I adamantly refused to have kids with the guy that I was dating for several years in the movement. Because I knew exactly how it would go. And I remember even blatantly telling him at one point, I'm like, dude, I'm not fucking having your kids just so we can give them a lesson like this. Alright, kids, we're gonna learn how to spell this racial slur today. I'm I'm not fucking doing it, man.

Samantha 34:47

It's ridiculous. Yeah. even the adults though. I remember there were people that would try and buy houses and plots of land. And every time that they would put in a bid for a house, they would use 1488 as like we're doing 1000 like one hundred and forty eight thousand dollars and then they would only like increase by that much just these these such a weird petty small things that do not matter and would ultimately put you They'd put you out, they would inconvenience you and you're doing it to like, what? Like you're trying to tell a joke that no one's gonna hear. It's really embarrassing. Was there anyone in the movie that you wish would have had a chance to like live or change their mind? I personally think the soldier that sacrificed himself for Jojo. Sam Rockwell's character, I wish he had a beat. He seemed also strange and eccentric but in a very endearing way. Him and his little, his little partner, who I only know of as Thea, or yeah, Theo from Game of Thrones. I was like, okay, Alfie Allen,

Angela 35:54

Yes, yep,

Lauren 35:56

I could be overthinking it, but maybe that scene was there to say, okay, like, the guy still has, a shred of humanity left in him, somehow. And

Samantha 36:03

I feel like that's worth remembering. I wish all the good guys lived. I was really upset that his mom got captured. That was a devastating scene.

Angela 36:13

It was hard hitting the way they did that.

Samantha 36:18

yeah, did not expect that. Were there any favorite scenes? Otherwise, anything that that we thought was very sweet, very watchable.

Angela 36:29

The scenes where Jojo and his mom were spending time together and biking around and I really loved her sense of humor with the way that she responded to his harshness and his beliefs. Another air quote moment around beliefs, because she would directly confront him, but in the kindest, like, oh, so silly. Why would you do this? like, she would make fun of it, I love the scene where he cussed at her and he was being mean and he was like, I want my father. And she slammed down her shit, got on the jacket and was like, boom, with the coal or ashes, mimic a beard. I thought that scene was really powerful. The way that she like did the father, then herself and made a family. I forget what she used for the father.

Lauren 37:28

Yeah,

Angela 37:29

It was

Lauren 37:29

when, yeah, when he refers to her as woman, I'm like, okay, if I said that to my mother, I want to get a good slap for that, especially at the age of 10, but I'm like, okay, she responded pretty well.

Samantha 37:41

I absolutely I think she like very smartly and tactfully planted the seeds of doubt. in Jojo, I also thought that was so interesting she never discouraged him outright from being a Nazi, because that would have been wholly unsafe for her to do that, but she did position all of his ideas and things that he had learned, in air quotes. to be these very malleable things Oh, what a, what a flimsy thought. What a, what a silly idea to have. Like, you know, I can't wait till you can explain to me how this makes sense almost. Cause it doesn't make sense right now. And I thought that was really, really, really smart. I think it would, it would behoove us to when addressing the controversy that I had mentioned earlier, The idea that it was being too sympathetic to Hitler because again, we're all walking into this knowing that Hitler's a bad guy. Nazis are bad guys. so no matter how they portray them, we know that. It's always colored with that perspective. Do you guys think it's fair to have? Portrayals like this where Hitler's kind of like, just a goofy guess, or is that reasonable? I'll put myself on the chopping block first I do think that it's reasonable and in some ways necessary because I got sucked into this because When the person who got me into it was nice to me and tender to me, I was like, well, you can't be that bad. Like, how bad could this really be if it's not at all the monsters that TV is portraying. And I think when you show, like, yeah, Nazis can have a personality, they can be charming, they can be well educated, they can do this, that, and the other, I think it's important to know that, like, That's how it works. That's how it happens. These are people that know how to use publicity, know how to use media and their own personalities as propaganda. So I, while I understand people wanting to say like, you know, Hitler isn't funny, Hitler is not funny, but I'm sure Hitler told jokes. And you have to portray that part, too, to understand that these are complex and strange and eccentric individuals

Lauren 39:53

And I also noticed that too when I was in, when you would first meet somebody in the movement, they were always nice, they were always charismatic, it's just the mask came off eventually.

Samantha 40:01

Yeah. Yeah, I remember the first time I met this, huge burly guy who was doing, security somewhere. Swastikas. Just all over. It was nothing but, German gang swazitats everywhere. And Just came up to people how it's such an honor to meet you, blah, blah, blah, this, that, and the other, just so cordial, so kind. And like, at that point I was, I was desensitized enough. And like, I was in the movement enough where like, it wasn't such a shock. But when I look back and think about that, it's like, the public is correct with the that this guy would likely kick your ass if you did not have the same skin tone as him, but also completely wrong in thinking that that's how he acted towards everyone. And I understand. A marginalized person or a minority being like, well, you know, we don't have the luxury of having that interaction with this person, but for the people that the far right and white nationalism targets, you have to show them that these are multifaceted people so that the white people that white nationalism is targeting. It will get through. I don't know. Does that make it I feel like I can't tell if I'm like, articulating this in a way that makes sense or not, but

Lauren 41:14

I feel like everyone's gonna have their own opinion on this type of thing, but for me, I'm all for showing something as accurately as possible.

Samantha 41:22

Yeah, totally. And you know, Nazism is a fucking white person created problem. so we've got to figure it out. thank you guys so much for having this conversation. I, I, I love this movie. I could talk about it forever. I really appreciate your conversation, your perspectives, will talk to you next time when we review our next film. Bye guys.

Angela 41:42

Bye.

Brad 41:43

but