Tyler

Sam and Jamie talk to Tyler about his childhood as the son of a tough guy and self-destructive woman, how his family was surprisingly supportive of his transition, although it had conditions. We discuss how terror cells don't always live in the dark corners of the internet, and how maybe not every book deserves a press tour. 

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Transcript

Samantha 0:12

Welcome to the daily former you're listening to season three, episode three, this season. We're interviewing formers themselves, letting them tell their stories on their terms and asking them questions that we get from our friends in the discord, people running in and things we generally want to know about formers like ourselves. My name is Sam today. I'm here with Jamie and we are talking to Tyler. How are you Tyler?

Tyler 0:32

Alright.

Samantha 0:33

Before we start anything, I have two questions for you. One, what organization were you in and how long have you been out?

Tyler 0:40

So, it was Adam Woffin Division, and I've been out mentally since 2022.

Samantha 0:49

and how's there been a piece of media that, you think has accurately told your story? Okay.

Tyler 0:55

honestly, I feel like drift from the did nothing wrong podcast, like good brief, like summary over my life That's probably, that's probably it, honestly.

Samantha 1:04

shout out Griff. He's, he's a really cool dude did nothing wrong, is a great podcast. Okay. Yeah. let's jump into it. Can you tell us a little bit about what do we need to know to understand you before Adam Moffin and how you grew up?

Tyler 1:19

So, I'm kind of coming to terms with talking to my dad recently and he, he's hit like a certain wall with me So I don't know, recently I've been sitting down and thinking about it a lot and he has just had a lot of hatred in his heart, like his whole entire life. I'm like in this phase of my life where I'm like really analyzing like, how I grew up, but like my actions I could have looked at my dad and said, yeah, I'm not gonna be like him in any way, shape, or form, but, I have this bad part about me where I'm like, I need to make my dad proud and I need to impress him. And I feel like that really played a part into like, when I transitioned, I have to be a man. I need to be his ideal version of a man. And I wasn't getting that until I started following right wing politics. And I started inching further and further and further to the right. And I got to this point where. I even told my like, I didn't tell my dad I was in the atom weapon, but I was like, Oh yeah, I joined the militia. And he was like, Oh, good shit. I'm proud of But growing up he he was a good dad, for the most part. For the most part, anytime I needed anything or I got in trouble or something, it's I got you, We'll get through this. But, But like there's there's one time Well where we got into an altercation because I was like bringing a guy home I was like, this is my boyfriend and he was like, why would you transition just to be a Why would you disgrace me like this? Why would you do this to me? And in that moment my heart just fucking Sank.

Jamie 2:59

Did he use that language?

Tyler 3:01

Yes. He was like, why would you transition just to be a Why would you disgrace me like this? And from that point forward, I was like, damn okay, I guess I'll just only date women and never tell him. And so I like forced myself for years to just date women and I'm not gonna say my marriage was bad because it wasn't bad, it was, it was a good marriage, until the end, and then I realized,

Samantha 3:28

so you were in adam often at that point?

Tyler 3:30

well, no, no, because my arrest happened when I was like, 19 or 20 but she was with me while I was in it, and she wanted me out of it, She was very on my case about getting out of it. Like she would come to my house and say Hey, I need you to start taking some of this shit off the walls. It makes me, Hey, I need you to stop hanging out with these people as often and focus more on me. Just you're not like this. I know you're not like this because you were just nice to a black person at the fucking grocery store. Okay. Just, just like showing me out about this shit. And I was like, okay, But but yeah, towards the end, it just wasn't great between us. Anyways, I forget where I was going with this.

Samantha 4:12

Yeah, I was gonna say we got a little bit out of order. I was just curious. We were talking about childhood parents and stuff like that. It sounds like you and your dad have kind of always had this one sided relationship where you're looking for his approval and he just seems incapable of being emotionally available. No offense to your dad.

Tyler 4:33

I was talking to my sister about the situation like literally a week ago, and I was like, dude what the fuck is wrong with that? Honestly. It's he's always been emotionally unavailable. she said that. He's always been emotionally unavailable to us. he's a dad, and he does what he can, but at the same time, it's

Samantha 4:52

how was your mom? How did you view your mom? How, how was she? Were your parents together? And then also like with your sister kind of, but like you being trans and having transitioned, like how, How did all of that go for your family?

Tyler 5:10

yeah, my mom, she growing up for, until I was nine years old, I lived with my mom. She is a horrible human being. my dad and her got into an argument, and she threw him out of the house, and she called the cops, But, this was like 2000, 2001, so, yeah, the police are gonna believe her over him, type of deal. So my dad lost custody until I was nine, and it was, it was a house of fucking horrors living with her.

Samantha 5:39

Yeah.

Tyler 5:40

So, that was a

Samantha 5:41

total negligence.

Tyler 5:43

Yeah, I have silly nightmares. And, one day, when my dad was fighting custody for me this whole time, he just said to the court, he was like, You should, you should drug test her, and then I will prove to you that she's an unfit mother, because she is on drugs, and I've been begging you guys for years to drug test her, and you just won't fucking do it. And then in the court, they drug tested her, and she popped four of her. Coke, heroin, meth, like all types of fucking shit, like you can go down a fucking list. And they looked at her and they were like, Henry, you have custody. Go pull your kid out of that school right now and that house right now get him the fuck out of it.

Samantha 6:30

Yeah.

Tyler 6:32

so my dad gets custody and all that. I'm sorry, you did ask, like, how it went with transitioning.

Samantha 6:39

yeah,

Tyler 6:41

Yeah so my mom not being around, she had no fucking clue for a while. But then, like, when she knew she was totally cool with it, she was like, yeah, I work in a gay bar. But I, I came out to my dad via I left, I left him a letter on the table, because I wasn't sure how to talk to him about it, because him being very Republican, and I was like, he's probably not going to be cool with that. And I don't know how to communicate this directly to his face. So I left him a note on the table after work one day, and he came up to my room and he looked at me and he said, okay, this is no big deal. He's we'll get you a therapist. And as the therapist decides that yeah, you, you should transition. We'll, we'll go. Talk to the therapist and we'll see if it's the right move. That's it.

Samantha 7:37

that's great.

Jamie 7:38

that's good.

Tyler 7:39

Yeah, he's totally cool with it. And like the therapist was like, yeah, I think hormone treatment would be fine, but we need your approval for it if he's going to start at 16. And and I remember like months prior to starting, my dad was like, okay, listen, once you start, there's no going back. You've got six months to go back. It was like past that six months mark, you're kind of screwed. And I don't want you to regret this. And I said, dad, I'm so sure of this. I've never been more sure of anything in my life, but I'm sure of this. And he was like, all right, so yeah, he started me on hormones at 16 and everything was fine. He had no problem with it. And my sister, she I mean, my sister moved out when I was 15. So she was 17. And funny enough. Because like her and my dad got in a really bad argument. She never came back home. And the last time I saw her was at Starbucks, which my ex girlfriend at the time was like, Hey, is that your sister? And I was like, Oh shit, that is my sister. And I go up to her and I'm like, Hey Nina. And she looked at me and she was like, Oh fuck. Hey, how's it going? You look great. You sound great. I'm so happy that like dad allowed you to transition. Like you, you look happier now. Honestly. Yeah, no, I, I am. We sat down for a little bit and we were talking. I was like, hey, I'd like to hang out with you again. I miss you. And she was like, I would, but I'm leaving for California next week. So I haven't seen her since I was 17 years old and we still talk, but she lives in she lives in Australia now. And she's going to be moving to New Zealand soon,

Samantha 9:25

She sounds like she's having a good time in life, though. Get to move to Australia, New Zealand. That's great. Good for her. And what a fateful day that you happen to run into her the week before she decides to leave forever. That's great.

Tyler 9:38

it was, it was kind of, I mean, it was sad, but it was beautiful and she was just like, Hey, you're happy now. I haven't seen that in all the years you've lived basically.

Samantha 9:49

Aww. That's very, yeah, that's really endearing. So if you started transitioning at 16, and it sounds like your dad is super hard right, and your mom is apolitical likely, and just busy

Tyler 10:05

Oh, but she is racist. She is very racist.

Samantha 10:09

But I mean, yeah, she's busy doing her own self, self sabotage, self destruction. How, how did you, what was, what was the first thing that, that, that made you interested in the movement? Like what, what were you listening to and what were you doing that made you, if you grew up in a kind of like right wing household already, what made you go more please, I want this to be more?

Tyler 10:34

So it's, it's really funny because starting off I was more liberal. Cause I'm like, oh, I'm trans. It doesn't make any sense to go against myself in that regard. You know what I mean? But I don't know it was more of, I'm not a man enough, and at the time, you know, you see those compilations of liberals freaking out back in 2016, and I'm like, oh, so if I say I'm a liberal, I look like that, and I don't want to look like that. Or I would get annoyed with trans people that I've seen online, just, I don't know, for the dumbest reasons a guy, a trans man wears eyeliner, and I'm like. But you are trying to transition. Why are you doing what is the point?

Jamie 11:19

correct me if I'm wrong here. So you really, your, your embracement of the far right was to sort of to be more of a man to embrace more of a hardcore masculinity, really.

Tyler 11:28

Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to fit into a mold. I was like, well, yeah, so I'm transitioning to be a man, but I'm going to be a man.

Jamie 11:36

And you think that in this part of this came from really your dad's push of you you know, wanting to emulate your, your father sort of being that masculine man. Am I,

Tyler 11:45

Yeah. But yeah, the more I'm like sitting down thinking about it, it's definitely that more than anything, and it just became internalized over time.

Samantha 11:58

Did you grow up in a conservative area? Like were there, were there any men That were liberal or like leftist or whatever that you were kind of looking up to or was it kind of what you're saying like you watch certain news programs and stuff and you're like, those guys are, you know, they're not masculine. They're not manly. They're, they're liberal cucks or whatever.

Tyler 12:21

Yeah. So I I grew up in New Jersey. the area is liberal. It's very liberal. At least that's where it was when I was growing up. I don't know how things are. I've been gone for a while.

Samantha 12:35

So was, was the conservative aspect or the, or, you know, it's really weird, right? Cause there are conservatives that are not Nazis. There are Republicans that are not Nazis. And it, it really does bother me that there's this idea that if you're a liberal, like you said, you're like a blue haired crying cuck that is just watching, you know, whatever and freaking out and doing nothing about it. But then if you're a Republican, it suddenly means that you know, is like, has a, I don't know, some fucking whatever thing in your life. It's it's really, I think it's so stupid. So for you, Was being, was being conservative or being hard right a rebellion?

Tyler 13:15

In a way, yeah. I started Falling down that little rabbit hole with I don't know, I started watching the other side, what the other side is doing, per se. And, I, I started watching and by the way, was like a very key reason that I was like, oh, he's, he's gay and they're accepting of him, And then was another person that was that gateway oh, I, I don't have to be a liberal I'll be accepted in this little thing they got going on.

Samantha 13:52

So at the time when I, it was like 2016, 2017 was like my, you know, like the first year of Trump's term was when I was like in the far right. I remember Blair White doing the I'm a man with like a mental issue and all of this stuff. Was that something that you were getting behind? Were you openly trans with people? how were you reconciling all of this in your head? I

Tyler 14:16

in high school, I was openly trans which wasn't good for me, actually. I, I really, I begged my dad many times to hey, can you, can you put me in a different school so I can start over? And not tell anybody and she was like, no, it's not happening. You're just going to have to deal with it.

Samantha 14:35

don't

Tyler 14:36

this shows and you're going to thug it out, essentially. Like you're going to man up and you're going to get through it. And yeah, that, that wasn't the best idea because there were points where I was like targeted in the bathroom and lo and behold I don't, I don't like to Put this out there because it It's true, but it feels wrong to put it out there. Most times that that happened, it was not a white person to do being terrible towards me in the bathroom. So that kind of built up inside me and built up the rage. And I was already leaning towards that way, and it just kind of ticked me over the edge. But like all things considered like I still had a good amount of friends and like I for good or bad I was popular

Samantha 15:34

Yeah.

Tyler 15:34

But I like it definitely comes with its flaws, you know

Samantha 15:39

Yeah.

Tyler 15:39

my high school experience it was it was just a little brutal But I managed for the most part. Yeah, I don't know how to say past that point

Samantha 15:48

No, you're fine. You're totally fine. I'm really sorry that you went through that. So as you're going through this in high school, you were talking about and how like and like all of these, I'm sure you understand now that they were the exception, they were kind of like, the movement called them like useful idiots, you know, where it was like, these were people that will never get a job. Into whatever this little ethno state that everyone thinks they're going to have, but it's, it's helpful to make people think that that it's not as bad or they're not as racist or there's not as homophobic or transphobic as, as they actually are. So. how do you transition from to Adam Offend?

Tyler 16:33

Oh, so, oh man, this is actually gonna be another deep dive so, I was on tumblr a lot in high school and

Samantha 16:41

can you, sorry to interrupt, can you explain Nazi Tumblr

Tyler 16:46

Yeah. Um it it started like kind of popping off more around like 2017 and like nobody was Covertly violent on there. They would just pop in and be like, Oh, reblogging all of World War II, but specifically the Germans. And then they would post every once in a while and be like, read Siege. And I had somebody like message me because I was complaining about like liberals. And the guy messaged me and said, Hey, read Siege. And I was like, no, I'm not going to read a book. I kept seeing it more often, more often. And eventually I got to the point where I was like, all right, I'm just fucking going to read Siege. Cause this guy messaged me and said, read Siege, you'll see how much it connects to the problems back then. So the problems we're having now, and it'll give you the answers. And I read it and I was like, okay, yeah, Makes sense to me. Everything talking about and it locked me in. And another thing was when Brenda Russell got arrested and like his roommates got killed then I found out about all of Adam Lawson's history. I was like, oh wait yeah, they're a little crazy, but. They're actually doing something to change the world. What the fuck is anybody else doing around here?

Samantha 18:06

When you, when you were talking about having friends and all that stuff, were you trying I think we all did it at some point, but were you trying out this rhetoric and this ideology out on your friends and being like, hey, have you ever thought about accelerationism? how were your relationships impacted by this, I guess?

Tyler 18:23

A lot of them were like, hey Tyler like you're acting crazy. No And I remember I I I call this one kid my brother because like I'm very long fun and all but like I'm, just gonna say my brother. I looked at him in high school And he knows that I'm going off the deep end, He looked at me and he's Tyler, you're a fucking idiot, they will kill you. And he's you are trans, you do remember that, right? was like well, I don't think they'll know. And he's even if they don't, he's you're going to be a part of something that's fucking insane and hateful and throw your life away. And I was like, what else am I fucking doing with my life? I'm doing nothing. And I, I don't know, like I was very depressed in high school and I was very depressed after high school and I'm still depressed, but it's just the way I went about my life. Dealing with it was not helpful.

Jamie 19:22

do you think that You're sort of like looking for a new identity. You wanted to embrace a new identity, and that was Adam Woffin. Adam Woffin was that reach.

Tyler 19:31

Yeah, in a way, yeah. I mean, I after high school I actually joined a skinhead group briefly and I was supposed to get the chapter set up in Florida and everything and I was doing a lot of work to get that going and I was very open I think it's like 2019 at this point, I was very open about it. My beliefs and like a lot of my friends cut me off because they were like, okay. Yes. I was on the deep end He's fucking racist. We're not gonna fucking talk to him and Being like really open about online Somebody from the floor to sell reach out to me and they were like, hey, you know what you're doing our fucking cells falling apart The person that's in charge doesn't know what they're doing. I think you would be a good fit to text them.

Samantha 20:27

So you were

Tyler 20:27

I got it.

Samantha 20:28

so you were like on, are you telling me that Adam Woffin recruits on Tumblr?

Tyler 20:36

This was Instagram.

Samantha 20:37

Oh, oh, Instagram.

Tyler 20:39

Oh yeah. Yeah. I got recruited off of Instagram. Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

Samantha 20:45

For Adam Woffin. Oh my god. You joined Oh my god. I mean, you know, I get it, right? That makes sense, though. I feel like that's something that people miss, is that these aren't you have to log on to the dark web and know all these passwords. these people are on Facebook. They're looking for the kid who comments the edgy thing, and they're saying, yeah, I like that comment. In fact, let's take it a few steps further. people think that, It's not in my neighborhood. It's not in my state. when we hear about Atomwaffen and these scary things, they're strangers. It's like such a far away concept. And they recruit on Instagram.

Tyler 21:22

Yeah. It's literally like you could be in the grocery store with a fucking neo Nazi and you have no idea.

Samantha 21:29

yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that is worth, you know, You know, 80s, 90s, early 2000s, they all like had tattoos and would dress a certain way. And now the point is to blend in and to look like a normal bread and butter, you know, I don't, I don't have tattoos. I'm, you know, I'm just a normal person who happens to think the annihilation of every other race is totally fine and justified. I'm just a girl buying bread. It's, the truth. so when you say that you were open about this stuff and you were skinhead, like you were posting like racist

Tyler 22:04

I was posting like, Oh, all over the place. My Facebook, my Instagram. My tumblr it got to the point where I had to delete my tumblr because I was like, all right I'm just getting so much hate mail because everybody's pissed at me but understandably, so so i'm just open about it on like facebook and instagram. I had twitter for a year in high school and then I didn't use it I was like this shit sucked But yeah, like just facebook and instagram.

Samantha 22:30

so this Adam often person felt comfortable enough to reach out and be like, yeah, we think you'd be a good fit.

Jamie 22:39

They in the cell? They were part of the cell, and they thought their leader was ineffective, so they reached out to you to, to come sort them out. Okay, okay.

Samantha 22:49

so you are approached on Instagram from someone. In Atomwaffen, who says, our leader is garbage. Was this a coup? I how do I put this, Atomwaffen, to me, I mean, I was in IE, we were like fucking optics cocks, but We, Saw Adam often as this kind of like almost a separate thing of they're just accelerationists, like sure there's white supremacy in it, sure there's all of that stuff in it, but they're scary, they're the militia bad guys, they're the vi like the real violent abject terror guys. Can you speak at all to the structure of it? Is it really just a bunch of kids who have a lot of shit that they don't know what to do with.

Tyler 23:31

I think that part is the scary part, right? So, when you're a kid, you're not, your brain's not fully developed. You're more willing to be gung, gung ho about things. And at the end of the day, it really wasn't I don't want to say, because race had a lot to play into, and the hatred of the Jews had a lot to play into, but it was more of just everybody was depressed and angry and suicidal. And that was their way of just being in the depressed angry suicidal club So When when I was in a lot of us were just fucking violent like we were just violent. We would beat the fucking shit out of each other. We'd get pissed drunk. We'd throw parties. Yeah, like it's just it was stupid

Samantha 24:14

when you talk about being violent was that you trying to be man enough or was there a rage in you that you were still figuring out or just didn't even know how to acknowledge or do you know where that, that violence came from?

Tyler 24:28

well, that's a hard question actually I think a portion of it might have been, like, me needing to fall into the masculinity. But I also feel like another portion is I'm just I, I got out of high school. I dropped out of college. I couldn't find a stable job, which is why I moved to Florida, because there are plenty of jobs in Florida. And then I was like, well, as much as I'm working and doing things, I'm still not doing enough with my life. And I just kind of felt like a failure piece of shit. And a lot of that just kept building up inside me. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. And I was just angry. I was just angry. And I feel like that's mainly the big part of it is I don't have my shit together. I don't think I'll ever have my shit together. And I didn't even ask to be here on this planet. And now I have to fucking be here and figure it out, yeah.

Jamie 25:25

Do you think the groups exploited your anger, your insecurity, your isolation, you know, how you, how you felt?

Tyler 25:32

oh, fuck, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, I'm glad you mentioned isolation. This is a very big thing. So, when my brother and I moved to Florida he was with me for a while, and we were with my mom, and my mom basically forced him out of the house because she really just wanted me, right? And when he went back home, because was very good about hey, I see that you have these beliefs, but don't fucking impede on somebody else's life. Don't. Just because you think that black person is bad, I don't want you to go out of your way and fucking hurt them or say something to them. Just fucking keep it to yourself. It's just keep the peace. That's all he asked. He was like, just keep the peace. He's I don't agree with you, but keep the peace, brother. And the, like, when he got his flight and he went right back up to New Jersey, I was fucking alone. I was totally alone. I have no friends because there's not a lot of young people in Florida. I'm just all alone. And I'm like, well, now what? And I'm sitting in my room every day. And I'm like, I'm just wasting away. I would sometimes like I would visit a few times a year in New Jersey. like maybe every six months. the isolation thing just kind of,

Samantha 26:55

were you seeking out people? Were you seeking out other things or was like, was like Adam often and just like generally like discontent what you were, I would guess magnetized to like it, it spoke to you and where you were at in a way that nothing else could.

Tyler 27:13

Yeah, it provided a sense of community. It did, I mean, everybody lived all throughout the state and I was the only one with a car. So, I would just drive to hang out with these guys. And, shit, one time I made a three hour trip across the state. Just to hang out with one of the dudes and bring him back to my place to hang out with the person I put in charge essentially and I would tell him I'm Bill like hey now that I picked you up. I'm not driving all the way back You're staying at my house for the weekend. We would all just hang out and that would be pretty much that But that was like my sense of community because I'm like, oh well These are guys like, close to my age range nobody in my town I don't know how to connect with them in any other way, so,

Samantha 28:06

What what was your favorite part of being in there? What did it, what other than the sense of community did it give you something that, that you wanted or that, that you liked?

Tyler 28:17

I felt like I was actually pushing towards a goal in my life, and it felt like the goal wasn't necessarily a goal. Not reachable, but I don't want to say it was not but it felt like whatever we were doing was actually of substance we we also tried to merge fkd florida cell with Adam waffen and like I was really really Intent about that with lazarus, but you don't have to blur that name out because i'm not using his actual name. But we almost had 30 people

Samantha 28:51

What was the end goal for, for y'all?

Tyler 28:55

the thing. I don't really know. I really don't know. I remember sitting in the car with lazarus one time And we were just talking And by this point I told him that I was trans, and he didn't believe me because he was telling me about something going on with him and his personal life, and I was like, yeah, well, I'm trans. I was like, now we have blackmail on each other, and he was like, haha, that's not funny. And I didn't know how else to tell him that I was trans, so I just stood up, and I hit myself in the crotch, and I looked at him, and he was like, oh. And he was like, I have a lot of questions now and we're sitting there talking and he's I don't want to fucking kill you. I don't know if I can do this, dude. I don't want to fucking kill you. And I was like, well, we're going to kill you. We're going to kill people eventually. I said, so

Samantha 29:54

you were that far in the like nihilism, like death, death somehow is inevitable.

Tyler 30:02

yeah, we were sitting there talking about killing on the regular and

Samantha 30:09

I mean, I guess that's, that's how it is. Do

Tyler 30:12

that was pretty, I think that's pretty much the end goal. Like we were going to go out and kill somebody somehow, some way. That was our only angle.

Samantha 30:22

you fully understand or appreciate that like all these people going down in Atomwaffen for murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to blah, blah, blah. Do you fear that they might still come after you or that, do you, do you, did you ever really appreciate it almost sounds like fucking dumb luck that you got out alive? Yeah.

Tyler 30:51

I mean, I almost had I don't know, it's I almost had one guy blow my face off of a shotgun by accident, and in that moment, all I did was just close my eyes and I was like, this is it. And that's my only thought, was, okay, that's it, this is how I go. And that was that. Luckily, somebody told him as you. Was fallen with his hand on the trigger, but yeah, it was that was almost that close to being dead and I don't know now. I like when you asked me about that That could have been me. I mean if you If I was still in the headspace at that time, I would have been like, okay, whatever I really just died and I wouldn't care how I went out if somebody like literally was carving a knife into my neck I probably wouldn't care but now it's like I don't know. that's fucking horrifying, you know? Like I didn't appreciate my life all during that time being in there. And I just, I, I didn't care necessarily about the people around me. I know that sounds terrible, but I really didn't.

Samantha 32:01

No, it's, it's, right, it's, it's the same even for people that aren't in Atomwaffle. When I, when I was in, my whole idea was that I was, I was saving people. I was defending people. I was making sure that the world was better tomorrow for, at the,

Tyler 32:15

right, yeah,

Samantha 32:16

any sacrifice today. I remember telling my family I was doing it to protect their legacy and to keep them safe, and it, it took a while after I left to realize oh, I was a, I was a selfish fucking asshole who was putting my family at risk, actually.

Tyler 32:34

yeah, and my arrest I remember my ex wife said hey, if you ever get in trouble for this shit, I'm leaving, I'm done I'm not dealing with that, I told you where I stand, and I wanted you out, and two weeks before my arrest, I told them off, and yeah, I'm trans, what are you gonna do about it? By the way, peace out. Boom. Two weeks later, FBI raids my house. We're all like walking backwards with our hands up. My mom is in handcuffs and she looks at me and the first thing she says was, cause she already knew I was on a deep end too. She said, Tyler, did you fucking kill somebody? And I said, no, mom, what the fuck? Even if I did shut your fucking mouth, holy shit. You know, I'm like, you're saying that in front of all the fucking FBI agents. Are you fucking crazy? And I was like sitting there. I'm now like sitting there. Like rubbing my face and I'm like, oh my god Did one of the guys just fucking murder somebody and like my fingerprints were on something or god forbid? I was like, oh my god, am I gonna get pinned for a murder? like i'm sitting in the back of the car like holy fuck and

Samantha 33:45

it's crazy when you're in the back of a cop car and you're not even you have to sit there and be like, fuck, what are the logistics of what could have gone wrong? Cause there's so much. Yeah.

Tyler 33:56

I was running through I was like, was it the flyers and like for months I was telling croc I was like, hey, there's no reporting on the flyers. Are we about to get pinned for something? You And he was like, what do you mean? And I was like well, it's kind of weird that the journalist didn't say anything about us doing that. And it's just been complete silence for months. but yeah, like when the arrest happened, like I remember all of my friends just being like one by one, okay, yeah, no, we're definitely done. That's it. Like he's a piece of shit. and my family, like I had the FBI call my dad and I was Like, hey, I need you guys to call my dad, and I'm in the backseat of the car, and they're like, we're not doing that, and I was like, no, you are though, and I kept kicking the back of the seat, and I was like, call my dad, call my dad, call my dad, And they eventually call him and they're like, this is FBI agent, blah, blah, blah. Like we have your son in custody. And my dad was like, Oh, great. What'd he do this time? And I'm like, fuck me guys. And my dad was like really disappointed in me because I fucked up his like his finances because anytime you looked up my name. His name would also pop up because our last name isn't like a very used last name in America.

Samantha 35:14

Yeah.

Tyler 35:15

So he had a very hard time because of, I like ruined his personal life because of my own shit. then my mom, she she was just trying to go about her day while I was in the system for a month and a half. And reporters kept knocking on her door, and she would be like, Please leave me the fuck alone I'm trying to get my life in order. then my, my ex wife at the time wouldn't go back to her house for six months because she was scared that if she walked out of that house that somebody would see her take a picture and report her And so I ruined that for her too. And you know, my brother, he was like, I can't believe you fucking did this shit. And now everybody knows that we're still close. And now they probably think I'm a racist because you're a fucking racist. Like you ruined this for me.

Jamie 36:04

Did they know of your involvement prior to getting arrested?

Tyler 36:07

Oh, my brother did, but he didn't believe me.

Jamie 36:09

your parents had no clue, no inclination really.

Tyler 36:12

my mom knew my mom knew mom knew everything at that time. Yeah, she knew just said Please don't like have any reason for the FBI to come to the house I was like, okay. Yeah. No, we'll be fine We'll be fine my famous last words.

Jamie 36:28

what was your turning point?

Tyler 36:31

It was it was my ex wife. She with her coming to my house all the time and saying hey, this shit makes me uncomfortable. You're going to take the shit off the walls. I know you're not like that, because you're very good to people that are not white when you're out in public. You're very kind. It's I don't think you fully believe in what you believe in. I think you're just lonely.

Jamie 36:55

What was the time between her saying that and you going, Fuck all you guys, I'm done.

Tyler 36:59

It was probably a month into our relationship, but it was like a slow burn of me just saying Yeah, I'm out. even then it took me a couple, yeah, a couple of years, it took me until 2022 to be like, okay, wait, I, I'm not racist. This is not what I want. And I was a useful idiot. And I feel stupid.

Samantha 37:26

so that's what I was going to ask you. You had said in the very beginning that in that you had gotten out, but it took you like two years. What was that process like physically? So there's disengagement. Someone, when I was leaving, who was instrumental, very smart person. They said, first you leave and then you go. and she had kind of said you know, it's almost like a fake it till you make it, or learn it till you earn it, whatever thing, where what was that like, what did you physically have to do to get out of it, or to break contact with these people, or whatever it is that you needed to do.

Tyler 37:59

well, you know, I always say it's a blessing in disguise that the FBI arrested me because I was so on the deep end that I don't know, I could've swung back at any moment. If my ex broke up with me, I would've been like, alright, my bad. Yeah, I'm out. I don't want them, but I still can do

Samantha 38:18

Yeah. I'm still here to watch the world burn. Yeah.

Tyler 38:21

Yeah, yeah but it was like, it was a blessing because they arrested me, and then I'm in prison, calling my family, old friends, and they're like, why would you do this to us? Why would you do this to us? You knew better, you're a better person than this not even for yourself right now because you're gonna be suffering for a while. Why to us? that shit hurt really bad on the inside, and like I don't know, over time I started doing the same thing I did initially, like, when I was liberal or whatever, I, I was like, alright, well, I'll just, I guess, look at other stuff the other side, and see their points, and the biggest thing at the time, and I know it's so stupid to talk about it now, probably, because Vosh is a very free. Debatable public figure now,

Samantha 39:09

Yeah.

Tyler 39:10

but like I would watch the Vosch debates of him like debating Nazis and I would sit there and be like, Oh, that's why I look like that's what I sound like I sound like a fucking idiot because like you would talk to those Nazis and they would sound like fucking idiots and he'd be like, Well, here's the facts. here's the actual situation that happened. Now what? Oh, I'm like,

Samantha 39:30

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler 39:32

okay. That's, that's That's bad. That's that's me. That's embarrassing. That's Really not good. Not a good look. it just felt like a massive call out and I was like, well, okay where do we go from there and I started like listening, to the serves and going down like I guess the left one pipeline instead and realizing. Oh Yeah, no, I was just fucking used as an on It And that's it. I'm just a pawn in somebody's game. And I was like, I don't like that. I don't like that at all. And I was like, well, I'm struggling with being racist now. What do I do? And I didn't want to keep thinking that way, So then, reached out to Scott. And that's how I kind of got back on track to a normal life again.

Samantha 40:24

That's great. how important would you say being around other formers or having a community is to leaving? I think a lot of people try to white knuckle it or do it on their own. I, I tried for the first year and it, it felt impossible. So how helpful has that been to know people that know what it's like.

Tyler 40:46

I mean like my brother, he didn't know what to say, he was like, I've never been in your position, so I don't know what to tell you, he's like, all I can say is, just You know, do what you can to make up for what you did, but move forward. And I was like, oh, that's, that's advice, so I don't know, it's definitely a lot better to be around people that have been in a situation, or not situation, but in similar circumstances and like actually be able to talk about it, and be like, hey, I feel like I was actually losing my mind, and they're like, yeah, no, me too, it's okay good like a consult for the soul, you know,

Samantha 41:19

Yeah. totally. are you interested in getting in touch with people that are still in the movement? Do you think that's something that you could ever do?

Tyler 41:29

I won't name names, but I reached out to two people that were In the cell and I wanted to make sure that they were and I probably shouldn't but I said hey I'm, sorry For keeping you into this I hope you're out now and I hope you're doing better and both of them blocked me So it has me leading to Maybe thought that like I was an informant now

Jamie 41:55

Most likely, yeah.

Tyler 41:57

Cause the FBI they, they removed all my social media and they banned me from social media until my probation was over. So I wasn't allowed to use I wasn't allowed to use computers, smartphones, and like no social media. So I lost contact with everybody that wasn't in the direct vicinity of me. So I went dark, like they deleted everything and I basically went dark and a lot of people wondered what happened to me after my arrest. At first, yeah, I was like, I was so fucking pissed. I was like, Well, now I have nothing, and I can't fucking keep in contact with anybody. But, but it was a blessing in disguise because it's like, Okay, the people that want to contact me will contact me through my wife, right? Or they'll reach out to my dad and then my dad will send me, then I'll be able to talk with them again. But, It was, it was really nice reconnecting with people because it's like, Hey, Tyler, have you learned your lessons? Like it would be, because it's just recently really like that I got access to things again, but it was last March. So, it was like, Hey Tyler, like how's, how's things going? Haven't talked to you in four years. How's it been? And it was just like, here's my update. Also I promise I'm not a piece of shit anymore. And they're like, yeah, no what are you doing with your life? And I tell them, and they're like, oh, okay you have it figured out you're good. You're not gonna fall into that shit again. And my brother him and I have been talking a lot again. We don't talk every day, but we talk once a week on the phone for about two hours. And he's like,

Samantha 43:43

That's awesome. Aw.

Tyler 43:45

it's nice. And then my sister. Her and I talk a couple nights a week through text on Facebook Messenger, and she's hey, how's things treating you? And I'm like, oh, you know, here's a little update for the week, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's nice, because my sister didn't really want to talk to me after my arrest either, because, again, we have the same last name, and she's yeah, you kind of sucked up my business But but yeah it was just like I don't know It's it's nice to be able to talk to everybody again and them just be like hey, you're a normal person again That's really great that we have Tyler.

Samantha 44:20

Oh,

Jamie 44:21

Awesome.

Tyler 44:23

But I want some sense of normalcy

Samantha 44:27

do you think there's something that people get wrong? About Atomwaffen and about slormers and leaving and stuff. I feel like there's like a stigma at the idea of we once did something so terrible. Was Atomwaffen really this we train every day, we sacrifice goats and shit, or whatever it is that

Tyler 44:47

oh, that's the base but no, yeah, the the training everyday thing that didn't really happen like the most times that you like train is A camp and we didn't even have a camp during the time that I was in because You A lot of things, but like there is like a really annoying thing where like I'll, I'll just be going about my day online and I'll be talking to the leftist and they'll be like, Oh, you are this. So I still feel like you might have Nazi brain. And it's I, I don't, but ouch. Okay.

Samantha 45:26

Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. People just decide who you are. And it's, it's so funny because it's honestly. It's mainly leftists and people like that who have, who are like, we're so rehabilitation, we're so like, second chances and giving everyone a shot. And then the second you talk about your past, they're just like, oh, well, not you. And it's

Tyler 45:49

Yeah oh, I don't trust you, and it's hey, I understand I understand approaching with caution, but don't write somebody off right off the bat get to know that person before you write them off, please. That is, that is the one thing, if we take anything out of this conversation, please get to know the person before you just fucking write them off. That's, that's it. The other thing is, like I think about my dad had to pay for my crimes financially, because of what I did, you know? And it's like, why would you I, okay, to my extent now I know that's not great, but, why would you push that all on him, as he's like this total piece of shit, and that he doesn't have every single idea that I had at that time, he did not have that, not at that time. no he didn't, and it's you're just gonna write him off as a piece of shit that deserves to be fucking financially fucked on his commissions at work, because of what his son did

Samantha 46:53

Yeah, Jamie, you said you had some questions.

Jamie 46:56

I just want to go back to the siege. Terrible book by the way. Do

Tyler 47:00

Yeah.

Jamie 47:01

you think books like that should be banned or do you think it should still be accessible to people?

Tyler 47:06

Oh. That's awkward.

Jamie 47:08

I know it's a tough one. And I'm thinking like also like Garbage.

Tyler 47:15

I think access should be limited.

Jamie 47:16

Okay.

Tyler 47:17

to a big extent. I don't think it should necessarily be banned. Because I feel like if you ban the book, then you're opening up a gateway to Okay, let's, let's say what Nazis ban books. They burn books, right? You don't want, you don't want a situation where oh, banning these books and they're burning these books. So, Nazi government in a different way, I, I just, I feel like you, if you ban it, it's really bad territory banning it. Limiting access, sure. you could. Make it to where like only an academic can touch that book. So it's not banned, but an academic is the only one that can read it and dissect it.

Jamie 48:02

Interesting. Sam, did you want to follow up with your opinion? Because I want to

Samantha 48:07

Yeah. No, I think very similarly, I think I don't want to ban publishing, but I do want to ban promotion of it. I think anyone, I think people have the right to have whatever bad opinion they want, but I don't think they have the freedom of consequences when they express it. I also firmly believe that the internet should be less anonymous. I think if you're going to have the guts to try and influence people and have opinions and start a revolution and all that stuff and you want to do it for the comfort of your own home, people should know whose home that's coming from. I, I think anonymity is what changes a lot of people's willingness to say things. And I think that's where a lot of trouble is happening is people keep pushing limits and pushing limits. And, you know, I think when you publish certain books or have certain opinions I don't, I don't think it should be. Promoted. I'm, I'm for free speech, sort of, but I'm not an absolutionist about it.

Jamie 49:06

That's fair. That's fair.

Tyler 49:07

That's fair. Give it limitations.

Jamie 49:09

The limitations. Yeah, there needs to be limitations. It can't be a free for all, but Tyler was saying, you know, when somebody gets a hold of it, if it's banned, they're just going to spread it like wildfire. Whether it's the Dart or Telegram or whatever.

Samantha 49:22

and it becomes, it becomes more enticing. That's the whole, the very first book of the Bible is about oh, here's this thing you're not supposed to do. And that's what makes it so much juicier,

Jamie 49:30

Yeah, exactly.

Samantha 49:31

know? And yeah, those are my thoughts on it.

Jamie 49:34

What's my next question? What advice would you give to someone who is currently involved, but wants to leave? They're starting to question it.

Tyler 49:40

I mean, like if your finances are tied to it. Pretend. Pretend that you are still in it, but Get the fuck out save, save your money if your finances are tied to it somehow you're living with somebody and you're relying on them for a home. Try to I don't know, at least reach out to somebody that is a leftist that might be, like, willing to take you and get you the fuck out of that situation.

Samantha 50:07

And if not a leftist, even just a political, a conservative, just honestly anyone who's not an extremist.

Tyler 50:14

exactly. I, I recommend leftists though, because that'll help you shake that mindset a lot quicker. But I, I mean like, yeah, if you're in a bad situation where like you can't get out immediately, like you need to start looking at different pathways. Oh, I can save up X amount of dollars this month and then go here. Or maybe you just have to pack up all your shit at once and leave the state. Do that if you can. If, if it's just like online shit, just fucking delete everything. Delete everything That's the best thing to do, just fucking hold turkey, cut contact.

Jamie 50:50

Very cool. Very cool. Last question is, what do you think would be an effective strategy to sort of, prevent people to steer people away from embracing the hardcore right wing ideologies or any right wing ideology?

Tyler 51:06

Okay, so, this one is a fun one. I'm thinking, I I know this is gonna be like, probably like a big lot of work to figure out, but I'm thinking that might be worth looking into more of like a scientific way of handling things, like researching Is it a low income thing? Is it just a mental illness thing? Is it is it a direct from where you're born type of deal? How do I put this? Yeah, probably you could look at a southern, a poor southern state, and do some research on, like, how many people, just their, their opinions are, and why that might be in the different factors of, is it propaganda in the area? And Or is it just them not being educated enough type of deal?

Jamie 52:02

So focus more on the triggers, you're saying,

Tyler 52:04

I guess so, yeah, I think a study needs to be done in certain areas, and, like, all those factors need to be looked at on a long term view like a 10 year view. And see what you could provide to that community to make them better, per se. They need more parts or something so there's more stuff for people to do? Or is there not a lot of community support? Is the community not tight knit to where they don't give a fuck about each other? And is that a problem? Is the aspect of community being lost? The big problem because I in my personal opinion. I feel like the aspect of community is Probably the main issue,

Samantha 52:54

Yeah. I think

Tyler 52:56

that's my opinion.

Samantha 52:58

this is the the last question that i have are you happy

Tyler 53:05

lot happier than I was for sure. Yeah. Am I depressed right now? Just like dumb things are happening and father time is working against me as my brother said to me yesterday.

Samantha 53:18

jesus christ

Tyler 53:20

Yeah, he's you know what you're so close to getting your shit together, but father time is working against but Yeah in general though, yeah, I'm way happier and I will mention I did This is something very interesting. I did have a Professor asked me like one on one one time this was off the record, of course But I'm, I'm fine sharing this with you guys. You can, you can publish this and all that. This is fine. But she asked me, she said, what situations would happen that would make you go back to what you went back to, or what you were in? And I said, well, I don't know if I lost my house, or if I was divorced, or Homeless, I don't know. I would probably get like really angry with the world again, and I would be Like I'd just fucking scramble and be fucked and she was like, well, hopefully none of that happens Well, I lost

Samantha 54:23

It all happened. Didn't

Tyler 54:25

a divorce. Yeah And like I don't know I I was sitting here

Samantha 54:31

three

Tyler 54:31

months ago. I'm sitting there thinking about I'm like, I never once had a thought like let me go be a nazi again It never occurred to me. I was like no fuck that shit You I was just like, damn, I'm sad and I'm angry, but yeah, I'm still not going back to that, that's fucking stupid if I did.

Samantha 54:49

Yeah, that's

Tyler 54:50

I'm really glad that yeah, I'm really glad it turned out that way, I was like, damn, like I'm telling her that shit, and I'm like, yeah, that would probably push her back, and I'm sitting here, and I'm like, wait, no, wait, no, I overtamed that, really, really good, because, That is not a thought in my head.

Samantha 55:09

That's so

Tyler 55:10

I was like, holy fuck.

Samantha 55:12

Yeah, it's it's i'm really happy for you. I'm, so proud of you. That's awesome yeah, thank you for coming on and talking to us. This was probably one of the more wild rides, I would say. Jamie is shaking his head. He agrees. I hope, I hope that everyone listening can appreciate this interview with Tyler. Feel free to let us know how you felt. Comments on our Instagram, Twitter, join our Discord, get in on the conversation. Tyler, this was awesome. This was so raw and real. And it was great. Thank you for coming in and I am sure we'll keep in touch. Thank you.

Jamie 55:51

a fucking really cool person.

Tyler 55:52

you, I appreciate it.

Samantha 55:54

I know, right? He's like way cooler. Yeah. Okay, good.

Tyler 55:56

I appreciate it.

Samantha 55:58

Yeah. All right.