The Great Reskilling: Harnessing AI & Automation in the AEC Industry

In this episode, we dive into the concepts of reskilling and upskilling amid the disruptive forces of AI and automation in the AEC industry. Recent data reveals that Architecture/Engineering is the third most disrupted industry, with novel tools like SAM, the robotic bricklayer, and the rise of programming transforming the sector. 

Addressing the escalating skills gap, we uncover strategies for cultivating a learning culture, emphasizing trend workshops, and a dedicated technology strategy. Prepare to be armed with the knowledge to ride the great reskilling wave sweeping across the AEC industry in this insightful episode of Groundbreaking Growth.

🔔 Don't miss out! Subscribe to Groundbreaking Growth on your favorite podcast platform. Let's ignite growth, shape the future of the AEC industry, and redefine what's possible. Are you ready for some groundbreaking growth? Let's dive in! 🚀💼

Transcript

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Welcome to the AEC Groundbreaking Growth Podcast.

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Hosted by Stambaugh Ness.

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Hi Everyone! Welcome the podcast today.

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I am Emily Lawrence, your host,

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and I’m here with Jennifer Knox, my lovely co-host.

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And everyone, we’re also joined today

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by another awesome colleague, Scott Butcher.

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He is a Director in our Strategic Growth Advisory Group here at Stambaugh Ness

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and is really going to dig into reskilling with us today.

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So, Scott, when we talk about reskilling, can you at least give us a definition?

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What do we actually mean by that?

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Hey Jen, hey Emily.

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Well, you know, I guess it depends on who you ask.

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Because the one thing you’ll find out if you do some research,

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different places

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have different definitions, but I think there’s somewhat of agreement

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on a definition, at least among a lot of legitimate sources.

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And so, you know, if we look at upskilling and reskilling,

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upskilling is learning a new skill that’s going to help you do your job better.

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So I do a lot of strategic planning.

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And if I learned a new skill that would help our clients

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with strategic planning, I would be upskilling.

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Conversely,

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reskilling is sort of changing lanes.

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It’s learning a new skill for a new job.

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You might switch positions within a firm, for instance,

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or take on some new responsibilities.

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That was not part of your job in the past, and you need to reskill

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and learn the new skill to do the new thing.

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So upskilling, do what you’re doing better; reskilling, learn something new.

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And I think if we look at it that way, it’s a pretty standard definition.

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And like putting it in the context of, let’s say you’re a land surveyor

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and you learn total station, very common

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tool for surveyors for multiple decades now.

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And you might have gotten some upskilling to learn as there’s upgrades

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to the total station and the software that you’re using to interpret it.

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But now there’s survey drones,

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and learning to be a drone pilot is reskilling.

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That’s not upskilling.

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You’re learning something totally new and different, and that’s reskilling.

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So oftentimes, it seems like it may be kind of a horizontal step,

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maybe bringing new technology into your current role

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and leveraging it a little bit differently.

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Does that align with reselling? Yes.

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So, yeah, you know, upskilling, think maybe

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there’s an upgrade to the software you’re using.

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Reskilling it’s a brand new software to learn.

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I feel like right now, I am reskilling because I am learning ChatGPT.

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It is not part of my job description.

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It’s never been.

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I didn’t know it existed a year ago, and now it’s a great tool

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that we can leverage in so many different ways.

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But I’m reskilling to learn how to use it and to become a good prompt writer,

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which is the skill I need.

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So, Scott, I know you’ve done some research,

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and just, you know, as consultants, I think we see a lot of

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gaps.

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And I know we’ve talked about that in doing you do the trends workshops,

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but what are you saying?

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What kind of data have you gathered around this topic

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of reskilling and automation, and how that’s impacting it?

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Well, we all need to reskill.

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We all should be reskilling.

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You know, and look, I’m a biased opinion, for people who know Stambaugh Ness,

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you know, we love our Gallup strengths, our Clifton strengths.

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And, you know, there are 34 strengths.

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And, you know, my number three strength is learning.

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So I’m always learning something new.

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So, yeah, I have a biased opinion.

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So what is the data out there tell us?

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Well, there was recently a study that found that, it’s funny 44%

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comes up in a couple of different studies with slightly different meanings.

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And one study, I believe it was McKinsey, found that

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44% of employees will need to reskill

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within the next four years.

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And then there’s like 43% of employees

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that have skills gaps that were identified by the firm leadership.

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There was another study by another entity

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that found that 44% of people will need to reskill in the next five years,

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specifically because of automation and artificial intelligence.

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So that first 44% from McKinsey was just

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because the world in the second one was very specific to automation and AI.

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And I think we’re actually going to see that accelerate, right?

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I just gave the example of learning ChatGPT.

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We’re all learning it, right?

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But we’re reskilling.

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We’re doing so voluntarily because we believe it can help us do our jobs better.

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But there will be positions

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out there in the very near future that you will be forced

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to reskill to maintain that job because it becomes that expectation.

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So, Scott, when you talk about that 44%

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and these percentages, you’re talking about the workforce as a whole.

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Is that correct? Correct.

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In AEC specifically, what are we seeing?

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Just kind of narrow it.

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You know, it’s much harder to find specific

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architecture, engineering, construction data that goes down to that level.

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There are certain data points out there that we do see that might be AEC-specific.

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You know, I think it’s really interesting, and one of them that’s been out there

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just a couple of months.

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Goldman Sachs did some research on the industries that were going to be

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the most disrupted because of artificial intelligence and automation.

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And certainly, architecture in engineering scored very highly in that.

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Construction, on the other hand, not heavily

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disrupted because it’s it doesn’t rely a lot on

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tools that could benefit from artificial intelligence.

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Yeah, there’s automation, there’s self-driving construction

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equipment, there’s robotic bricklayers.

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Certainly, those are going to be components

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that are increasingly disrupted moving forward.

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But, you know, you think of accountants

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crunching numbers.

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Very, very hugely disrupted because so much of it is software and

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computer technology based that artificial intelligence can step in and do it.

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Where we see a lot of the disruption on the architecture engineering side, it’s

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been happening for several years now, is the tools like generative design.

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So we see generative design in Revit.

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It’s existed, I think, since released 2020,

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but there were other plug-ins even prior to that.

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And so it’s changing the way that a architect

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is actually designing a building.

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So it’s in its infancy.

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I mean, it’s barely scratched

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the surface of what it could do, which is why

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the disruption is minimal today moving forward.

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I mean, what if one architect could do the work of four architects today?

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That’s not a prediction, but it’s a possibility.

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More likely, it’s going to be one architect can do the work

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of the equivalent of one and a half to two architects.

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Right. It’s not going to be that significant.

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But that’s still we’re talking about a disruption

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of a quarter or a third of the workforce because of artificial intelligence.

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That’s a little terrifying for the industry.

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And I think a lot of industries are looking at this right now

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outside of AEC, and they’re reevaluating everything

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and trying to figure out, okay, what reskilling do we need internally

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to start to utilize some of these tools and what does it mean for us long term?

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And what I think, Emily, some of the statistics

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we do know is that, this was our own Stambaugh Ness research,

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85% of firms, this was conducted five and a half to six months ago,

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85% of firms view the talent shortage

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as one of the most significant issues they’re dealing with right now.

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You know, it depends where you are geographically.

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It depends upon the services you offer.

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It depends upon the market sectors.

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But by and large, if 85% of our clients are saying we can’t find the people.

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That’s a pretty significant trend.

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And the reality is that artificial intelligence

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and automation could actually help offset that to an extent.

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So yeah, and that’s like, again, to your point, Scott, is

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we need to think maybe a bit more holistically as an industry and say, okay,

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how do I develop a strategy around technology?

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Maybe to leverage that technology into an opportunity

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to solve another problem around workforce shortages.

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But then you need kind of a reskilling portion of that strategy

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to say, okay, how do we integrate this technology?

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What are the new skills

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our people need to have to leverage it to really grow the company?

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Yeah, it’s a very good point, Jen.

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And, I think of, and I have the benefit of working with both of you,

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and so I can refer to some joint experiences that we had.

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But we, we sat there in Golden, Colorado

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last fall, and

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we said, boy, you know, looking at the client requests

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for services that have been coming towards us over the past couple of years,

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maybe we need to bring on a more of a

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maybe not full time, but a more heavily focused writer

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to add to the team, to respond to the client requests. And then

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a couple of months later, we’re using ChatGPT, and we’re seeing the evolution

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with new models, new versions of ChatGPT, and we’re like,

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we don’t need to hire writer full time now.

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We can focus elsewhere.

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So, I mean,

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are we being reactive to what’s happening in technology,

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or are we being anticipatory, believing that we don’t

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actually need to fill that role because we get that big technology assist?

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It’s not the be all end all, but it is a technology assist,

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and we need to reskill to understand that

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we can utilize that as a tool

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for what we’re doing and maybe even move us into

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other service areas or certainly take on more work

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than we were originally thinking because now we have this technology assist.

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And that’s terrifying to a lot of people, but it’s absolutely fascinating to me.

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Yeah, I mean, it’s optimistic, I think.

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It’s coming right; whether or not we’re

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scared or resistant, it will.

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These technologies will become more and more utilized, so we can kind of

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get on board and learn about them

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or sort of

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have a steeper learning curve there.

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And you think about the context of, you know, our discussion

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here, which is reskilling.

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What positions do you know at Stambaugh Ness, at our clients

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that couldn’t utilize some element of upskilling and reskilling?

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Stambaugh Ness, we are big into

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interpersonal communication and skills training, soft skills, power skills.

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Call them what you want.

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To me, for a lot of positions, that’s an upskill.

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So, you’re needing to do your job better.

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You’re a project manager, but you’re not a good communicator with your clients.

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We’re not reskilling you.

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We’re improving upon the skills you have in communication, in

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emotional intelligence,

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in communication is written and verbal, and it’s active listening,

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and there’s all these different components.

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And that’s in the marketplace right now.

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That is what is in demand.

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Certainly, we see that with our clients.

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It’s huge, but broader AEC, broader other industries,

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there is a most definite lack of interpersonal communication skills.

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It’s generational-driven partially; it’s technology-driven across all generations.

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We’ve heard from clients, “Man,

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these people were great when they were interacting

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with other human beings ten years ago, and they’ve lost those skills.

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We need to bring it back to them.

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Our clients are telling us that.” So that is an upskill.

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Reskilling is integrating all these new technologies.

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Every day, I swear every day, and some of it is thanks to the two of you

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sharing information, but every day, I’m learning

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of another artificial intelligence tool and what it can do or what it will do.

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And I’m thinking, is there any way I could possibly keep up with this?

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And the answer is no.

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Technology has already passed humans capability of keeping up with it.

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But at least if we’re intentional, we can make some level of effort

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to try to keep up with that.

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You know, I’m doing here like you’re seeing this imaginary technology

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curve and the rate of change, but there’s technology change.

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It’s almost vertical.

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Here’s humans’ ability to keep up.

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We’re not there, but there’s a midpoint, and if we’re thinking about these

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technologies and then trying to adjust our skill set to keep up with them,

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I think that, for us, for our clients, for any firm

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that can put you

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in a point of differentiation and help you gain a competitive advantage

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and possibly down the road there’s a learning curve,

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but possibly in improve your efficiencies in your productivity.

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So what’s the back-end result of that?

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You can take on more work; you can be more profitable.

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There’s a lot of positive outcomes to

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embracing the reskilling and not fighting it.

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And look, we know change is hard.

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People love to do things the way they’ve always done it in the past.

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We’ve always done it that way.

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Literally the most dangerous phrase in business,

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and it doesn’t fit with where we are headed today and the need for reskilling.

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I think as kind of the younger generation comes into this,

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the workforce, there are probably more adapt to that change, right?

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They grew up with changing technology, so maybe they can kind of help

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the integration of some of this new tech and get that kind of

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in the organization’s hands and be part of that strategy.

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Right.

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Having that holistic view on how tech

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fits into your organization, I think they can be a huge part of that.

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Absolutely, Jen, and I think we’re seeing that’s somewhat a reverse mentoring.

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Yeah, right.

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So the senior leadership is mentoring the younger staff,

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maybe on some of the hard skills to manage a construction project,

00:14:54:17 - 00:14:59:24
to be a mason, to be a civil engineer, whatever the case may be.

00:14:59:26 - 00:15:02:12
And then the younger staff members are saying, “Hey,

00:15:02:12 - 00:15:06:11
I want to be a mason, but there’s robots to do this now, too.

00:15:06:13 - 00:15:10:00
Let me teach you the newer technologies that are coming into the marketplace

00:15:10:00 - 00:15:13:07
that maybe you’re not paying attention to.” And that’s,

00:15:13:07 - 00:15:17:14
look of the three of us on this call, I’m the old one.

00:15:17:16 - 00:15:20:02
And having the two of you around

00:15:20:02 - 00:15:24:17
is keeping me on my toes with technology because I have to keep up with you.

00:15:24:19 - 00:15:25:09
And that’s good.

00:15:25:09 - 00:15:28:24
Again, I love that stuff, but it does force me to be on my toes.

00:15:28:27 - 00:15:35:15
And it’s nice to have an open-minded leader on your team that encourages that.

00:15:35:15 - 00:15:38:16
But I also think of one of our clients,

00:15:38:16 - 00:15:43:08
small architectural firm, and they are

00:15:43:10 - 00:15:44:13
fairly young.

00:15:44:13 - 00:15:51:00
The leadership is young, but one of their main values

00:15:51:02 - 00:15:53:12
is technology

00:15:53:12 - 00:15:58:04
and really making sure that they’re at the forefront of having technology

00:15:58:04 - 00:16:03:23
and good technology, relevant technology available to their employees.

00:16:03:23 - 00:16:09:05
And so, they invested in iPads for every employee.

00:16:09:08 - 00:16:11:22
Again, this is a small architectural firm.

00:16:11:22 - 00:16:14:23
This is not like a large firm with tons of resources.

00:16:14:23 - 00:16:18:09
They’re a relatively new firm,

00:16:18:11 - 00:16:21:06
but they want to attract younger talent

00:16:21:06 - 00:16:25:15
and stay relevant with the larger and competitive with larger firms.

00:16:25:15 - 00:16:29:18
So they invested in a 3D laser scanner as well,

00:16:29:23 - 00:16:33:29
which they look at as a really nice tool

00:16:34:01 - 00:16:36:24
for their employees and for their clients.

00:16:36:24 - 00:16:40:08
It eliminates a lot of the

00:16:40:10 - 00:16:41:15
errors, human

00:16:41:15 - 00:16:45:11
error of measuring, and it improves efficiency.

00:16:45:11 - 00:16:48:07
It makes it a lot quicker. So

00:16:48:07 - 00:16:50:12
I think that’s

00:16:50:12 - 00:16:54:18
something that we’ll start seeing more of, even in smaller firms.

00:16:54:20 - 00:16:58:02
Emily, right there, is a classic example of reskilling.

00:16:58:05 - 00:16:59:29
So you have an architectural firm. What do they do?

00:16:59:29 - 00:17:02:20
They design buildings, right? That’s what architects do.

00:17:02:20 - 00:17:06:12
When architects want laser scans, they subcontract

00:17:06:12 - 00:17:08:09
that to a firm that specializes in it.

00:17:08:09 - 00:17:09:27
That’s the model.

00:17:09:27 - 00:17:11:26
But now here’s a smaller architectural firm

00:17:11:26 - 00:17:15:03
that says, “No, we’re going to do this ourselves; we’re going to control it all.”

00:17:15:06 - 00:17:18:06
And that’s innovative thinking on their part.

00:17:18:09 - 00:17:22:18
But now it’s requiring architects, architectural designers to reskill

00:17:22:21 - 00:17:26:01
to learn how to operate - accurately the laser scanner.

00:17:26:03 - 00:17:27:25
Right.

00:17:27:25 - 00:17:33:07
And I even think of; I think we were talking about this earlier

00:17:33:07 - 00:17:34:24
just as a group.

00:17:34:24 - 00:17:38:00
But you talked about those trade skills.

00:17:38:02 - 00:17:41:24
I worked for a general contractor, and they brought in BIM in-house.

00:17:41:24 - 00:17:46:02
They bought a BIM company that was small, and they brought them in-house

00:17:46:02 - 00:17:51:05
so that they could have that technology at their disposal anytime they needed it.

00:17:51:05 - 00:17:56:12
We even used it in proposals and pursuits as something that could help

00:17:56:14 - 00:18:00:27
set us apart competitively to other local contractors.

00:18:00:27 - 00:18:06:25
But I know you were talking about even masonry and some of that.

00:18:07:00 - 00:18:09:08
What are some other examples?

00:18:09:08 - 00:18:12:08
I mean, I love the masonry example.

00:18:12:13 - 00:18:13:04
Yeah.

00:18:13:04 - 00:18:17:28
So there’s a product out there called SAM, the Semi-Automated Mason.

00:18:17:28 - 00:18:19:22
So SAM is a robotic bricklayer.

00:18:19:22 - 00:18:21:11
SAM has been around for several years.

00:18:21:11 - 00:18:22:29
SAM is great.

00:18:22:29 - 00:18:28:11
SAM is really good at doing plain walls with standard bonds.

00:18:28:14 - 00:18:29:25
SAM can’t set the joints,

00:18:29:25 - 00:18:33:20
can’t SAM can’t do the corner, SAM can’t do the fancy.

00:18:33:22 - 00:18:35:09
But you know what?

00:18:35:09 - 00:18:39:27
Masons retire often in their early fifties because their bodies are shot.

00:18:39:27 - 00:18:41:28
I mean, it’s a skill.

00:18:41:28 - 00:18:44:09
It’s a skilled trade,

00:18:44:09 - 00:18:46:18
but it’s not pleasant on the body.

00:18:46:18 - 00:18:48:29
And so, you know, it’s kind of funny.

00:18:48:29 - 00:18:54:08
I had an opportunity in 2019 to give a keynote at a regional conference,

00:18:54:10 - 00:18:58:20
and I was doing my trends thing right, and I talked about SAM.

00:18:58:23 - 00:19:00:15
And afterwards,

00:19:00:15 - 00:19:04:17
one person in the audience came up to me and said, “Oh, we just bought SAM.

00:19:04:17 - 00:19:07:27
We’re using SAM now on the job site.”

00:19:08:00 - 00:19:11:00
And so I had an opportunity then last year

00:19:11:06 - 00:19:15:20
to give a keynote to the same audience, but all new trends.

00:19:15:22 - 00:19:19:11
But I did bring up SAM, and I said, Okay, show hands; who has SAM now?

00:19:19:14 - 00:19:21:03
And all these hands went up.

00:19:21:03 - 00:19:24:28
So we’re seeing a greater adoption within the construction

00:19:24:28 - 00:19:28:29
industry of a robotic bricklayer, essentially.

00:19:28:29 - 00:19:31:23
It’s not still widely prevalent.

00:19:31:23 - 00:19:33:01
They’re not the cheapest things.

00:19:33:01 - 00:19:34:22
But when you have a talent

00:19:34:22 - 00:19:38:25
shortage in skilled trades, that’s only going to get worse.

00:19:38:28 - 00:19:41:23
When you have a trade where people retire

00:19:41:23 - 00:19:45:24
much earlier than other trades because of the abuse on the body,

00:19:45:27 - 00:19:49:15
when you have people coming into the job

00:19:49:17 - 00:19:53:02
in the workplace with greater technology skills,

00:19:53:04 - 00:19:56:12
I mean, it’s sort of becoming a perfect storm that is saying the robotic

00:19:56:12 - 00:20:02:06
bricklayer, be it SAM or some other robotic bricklayer, is the future.

00:20:02:08 - 00:20:06:03
But the skills you use as a mason are different

00:20:06:03 - 00:20:10:07
than the skills you use when you’re operating a robotic bricklayer.

00:20:10:09 - 00:20:12:07
You still need the knowledge of the mason.

00:20:12:07 - 00:20:14:21
You still need to understand how everything goes together.

00:20:14:21 - 00:20:17:28
You probably still have to go in and set to join to the corners and do all that.

00:20:18:00 - 00:20:23:05
But now you also have to be a computer programmer to, to an extent,

00:20:23:07 - 00:20:27:21
to program the Semi-Automated Mason to lay the bricks.

00:20:27:24 - 00:20:31:03
So it’s, you could say, well, that’s doing your job.

00:20:31:03 - 00:20:31:27
It’s just upskilling.

00:20:31:27 - 00:20:33:17
I think it’s reskilling

00:20:33:17 - 00:20:35:11
because you can have a job out there laying bricks

00:20:35:11 - 00:20:38:00
where you never get involved with this type of technology.

00:20:38:00 - 00:20:42:26
But you reskill, you learn the computer and technology aspects of this.

00:20:42:28 - 00:20:45:00
And boy, that’s the future.

00:20:45:00 - 00:20:46:04
That’s where this is going.

00:20:46:04 - 00:20:48:14
And you think about, let’s go broader.

00:20:48:14 - 00:20:51:11
There’s now technology out there.

00:20:51:11 - 00:20:55:02
It’s absolutely terrifying to me, being somebody that grew up on the Terminator.

00:20:55:05 - 00:20:57:27
And this is not artificial intelligence, by the way, but,

00:20:57:27 - 00:20:59:18
you know, think of the Terminator

00:20:59:18 - 00:21:03:21
after, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger had no more of Arnie on him.

00:21:03:24 - 00:21:07:01
He was that terrifying robot.

00:21:07:04 - 00:21:08:19
It sort of looks like that.

00:21:08:19 - 00:21:09:27
But it hangs drywall.

00:21:09:27 - 00:21:13:24
It comes out of the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Japan.

00:21:13:26 - 00:21:17:21
And what they found is it is slower than a human drywaller.

00:21:17:21 - 00:21:22:05
While our but the quality is far superior to a human drywaller.

00:21:22:05 - 00:21:27:07
This technology will be entering the marketplace increasingly in coming years.

00:21:27:09 - 00:21:30:25
And just think about everything related to construction and everything.

00:21:31:02 - 00:21:34:02
You know, when we talked a little bit about generative design

00:21:34:05 - 00:21:37:15
and what might be coming out of building information modeling next year

00:21:37:15 - 00:21:42:03
compared to two years ago, it’s technology, technology, technology.

00:21:42:06 - 00:21:46:24
So for our firms to keep up, we need to understand it.

00:21:46:24 - 00:21:51:18
But for our firms to gain a competitive advantage, we have to go beyond.

00:21:51:20 - 00:21:55:07
And so quick story to share with you, and the timing is perfect.

00:21:55:09 - 00:21:58:20
Back in 2012, 2013,

00:21:58:23 - 00:22:02:04
I was involved with a big research initiative by the Society

00:22:02:04 - 00:22:05:07
for Marketing Professional Services, or SMPS,

00:22:05:10 - 00:22:09:03
and we were looking at changes in business development in the coming decade.

00:22:09:06 - 00:22:12:06
And then, more recently, I was asked to write an article

00:22:12:06 - 00:22:16:15
for the SMPS Marketer, which is the Journal, and look back

00:22:16:15 - 00:22:19:03
over the decade and what did we get right and what did we get wrong?

00:22:19:03 - 00:22:21:29
And so I’m going through all the findings from

00:22:21:29 - 00:22:26:18
2013 when it was actually published, and technology

00:22:26:21 - 00:22:27:18
was big,

00:22:27:18 - 00:22:31:22
but it was an interesting mindset because what we did in the research is

00:22:31:22 - 00:22:35:13
we interviewed the sellers of design and construction services,

00:22:35:13 - 00:22:38:13
so architecture, engineering, environmental construction firms.

00:22:38:16 - 00:22:40:13
And then, we interviewed the buyers,

00:22:40:13 - 00:22:44:05
which are the owners and the end users that are hiring these types of firms.

00:22:44:07 - 00:22:46:16
What the sellers,

00:22:46:16 - 00:22:50:09
the design and construction firms told the researchers

00:22:50:12 - 00:22:54:10
was that “Oh, we’re going to use technology to become more productive,

00:22:54:17 - 00:22:58:14
to gain more profit, to get more projects coming in the door.

00:22:58:14 - 00:23:00:29
We’re going to use it as a sales and marketing tool.”

00:23:00:29 - 00:23:05:00
What the buyers of the services told the researchers

00:23:05:03 - 00:23:08:16
was that “we expect design and construction firms to use technology

00:23:08:16 - 00:23:12:22
to our benefit, to do our projects more cheaply, to do our projects

00:23:12:22 - 00:23:16:00
more quickly, and to improve the quality of our projects.”

00:23:16:02 - 00:23:20:19
So both sets, the buyers and sellers, were looking at it from their viewpoint.

00:23:20:21 - 00:23:21:12
Well, guess what?

00:23:21:12 - 00:23:26:14
If you are the seller, the architect, engineer, contractor, environmental firm,

00:23:26:16 - 00:23:29:29
you need to focus on the buyers viewpoint because that’s what’s

00:23:29:29 - 00:23:33:17
going to get you the job and keep the relationship.

00:23:33:19 - 00:23:34:15
Yeah, I know.

00:23:34:15 - 00:23:38:03
You know, working for a large Fortune 500 organization

00:23:38:05 - 00:23:40:29
and managing kind of their capital spend and construction,

00:23:40:29 - 00:23:44:28
that was huge in the design-build teams we partnered

00:23:44:28 - 00:23:48:01
with - was what kind of technology were they leveraging?

00:23:48:01 - 00:23:53:04
Did they have full BIM models that would be turned over to us afterward?

00:23:53:06 - 00:23:57:29
How did that integrate to our facility management and operations

00:23:58:01 - 00:24:00:00
systems at the organization?

00:24:00:00 - 00:24:05:14
So I think as technology continues to grow and is incorporated in these

00:24:05:14 - 00:24:08:25
design-build programs and teams,

00:24:08:28 - 00:24:11:24
clients will really see a benefit from that.

00:24:11:24 - 00:24:16:11
If companies really sell it that way because there is a huge opportunity

00:24:16:11 - 00:24:21:03
for kind of the end user to integrate smart sensors

00:24:21:03 - 00:24:25:22
and whatnot in the operations of their facilities post-construction.

00:24:25:22 - 00:24:30:09
Go back a decade ago, think about building information modeling or BIM.

00:24:30:09 - 00:24:33:13
About a thirdish of the firms were using it,

00:24:33:16 - 00:24:36:20
maybe not on all projects, but it was growing in prevalence.

00:24:36:20 - 00:24:41:04
Now it’s, it’s everywhere, at least for the vertical construction.

00:24:41:04 - 00:24:44:08
But how much of it is actually being turned over

00:24:44:08 - 00:24:47:26
to a sophisticated owner, Jen, like where you were?

00:24:47:26 - 00:24:49:20
It’s not a lot.

00:24:49:20 - 00:24:52:25
There’s a huge application, and that’s the realization of BIM.

00:24:53:00 - 00:24:57:00
That was called, originally, “BIM 60”, where it would become part of the CAFM

00:24:57:00 - 00:24:59:03
of the Computer-aided Facilities Management,

00:24:59:03 - 00:25:02:15
where you could run your facility from that building model.

00:25:02:18 - 00:25:05:18
But it’s the classic scenario of garbage in, garbage out.

00:25:05:24 - 00:25:11:10
So if you’re going to use that to manage your facilities, what has to go in it?

00:25:11:10 - 00:25:11:18
And what has to go in

00:25:11:18 - 00:25:15:03
it might not be a skill set that the architect or engineer has today.

00:25:15:06 - 00:25:19:21
So it’s incumbent, if the clients are continuing to move

00:25:19:21 - 00:25:23:22
that way on the owner side, incumbent upon the architecture engineering community

00:25:23:24 - 00:25:26:26
to reskill, to understand

00:25:26:26 - 00:25:29:26
the applications as a facilities management tool,

00:25:30:01 - 00:25:34:16
how BIM can be used, whether it’s Revit or another product out there

00:25:34:18 - 00:25:37:15
because then you can have a competitive advantage in the marketplace..

00:25:37:15 - 00:25:38:21
But reskilling to me

00:25:38:21 - 00:25:41:21
is not just about doing things better, doing things differently.

00:25:41:21 - 00:25:45:06
It’s about opening the door for new opportunities.

00:25:45:09 - 00:25:46:08
Reskilling is

00:25:46:08 - 00:25:50:03
keeping up with technology, but it’s also where you’re going in the future.

00:25:50:03 - 00:25:51:24
And we can’t lose sight of that.

00:25:51:24 - 00:25:56:03
If you’re using automation or predictive maintenance

00:25:56:03 - 00:26:00:23
and you’re using the best technology and keeping yourself

00:26:00:23 - 00:26:05:05
ahead, that is such a huge benefit to clients.

00:26:05:05 - 00:26:08:00
And then, on top of that, I think

00:26:08:00 - 00:26:11:15
one of the things that we’ve talked about is that consultative aspect as well.

00:26:11:15 - 00:26:13:15
So learning

00:26:13:15 - 00:26:15:11
more technical pieces of how

00:26:15:11 - 00:26:19:18
to put in the right prompt

00:26:19:18 - 00:26:24:11
or manage that and then take that output

00:26:24:13 - 00:26:28:15
that the technology has given you and then be able to utilize that,

00:26:28:17 - 00:26:34:21
be able to run your own QAQC, correct any mistakes.

00:26:34:21 - 00:26:39:27
But then there’s the consultative aspect, like you were talking about, of then

00:26:39:27 - 00:26:44:00
relaying that information over to project partners or to clients.

00:26:44:03 - 00:26:48:29
So what are you seeing as far as

00:26:49:01 - 00:26:53:05
that aspect, that

00:26:53:07 - 00:26:55:28
more technical

00:26:55:28 - 00:26:58:04
component, but then also being able to relate that

00:26:58:04 - 00:27:00:12
information and communicate it?

00:27:00:12 - 00:27:01:07
I think we’re falling behind.

00:27:01:07 - 00:27:02:23
We’re falling behind

00:27:02:23 - 00:27:05:08
as an industry in the built environment,

00:27:05:08 - 00:27:08:06
but all industries are falling behind.

00:27:08:06 - 00:27:12:18
The rate of

00:27:12:20 - 00:27:17:27
adoption of artificial intelligence in the ChatGPT realm,

00:27:17:27 - 00:27:18:19
you know, there’s BART,

00:27:18:19 - 00:27:21:19
there’s other tools out there, but that was the sort of the rocketship,

00:27:21:20 - 00:27:27:19
when you look at social media users steadily inclining over the years.

00:27:27:19 - 00:27:30:19
Then you look at ChatGPT, and it’s like vertical.

00:27:30:23 - 00:27:32:19
Everybody sort of jumped on it.

00:27:32:19 - 00:27:35:16
Very few people truly understand how to use it.

00:27:35:16 - 00:27:38:11
And as a result of that, yeah, people worry

00:27:38:11 - 00:27:43:00
about the professions that they’re in that might be hugely impacted by that.

00:27:43:03 - 00:27:45:27
But before we get to that point of you’re going to be unemployed

00:27:45:27 - 00:27:49:18
because of artificial intelligence, I think we first need to reskill

00:27:49:21 - 00:27:55:05
to understand what’s required on the front end and what’s required on the back end.

00:27:55:07 - 00:27:57:19
And, on the front end,

00:27:57:19 - 00:28:00:28
a simple example, say, generative design.

00:28:01:06 - 00:28:05:04
So you’re using that to lay out ductwork in a space.

00:28:05:06 - 00:28:08:06
You think laying out ductwork, laying out conduit,

00:28:08:06 - 00:28:12:14
laying out piping, plumbing piping, for instance.

00:28:12:18 - 00:28:16:00
Fairly basic work that an engineer does.

00:28:16:03 - 00:28:19:12
Far more brainpower goes into the calculations.

00:28:19:15 - 00:28:23:29
So you use technology as an assist, and you say, Okay, well,

00:28:23:29 - 00:28:27:12
the ventilation is going to enter over here, and it’s going to exit there,

00:28:27:19 - 00:28:28:27
and let’s figure out the path

00:28:28:27 - 00:28:31:28
through the space and, you know, going off in the different directions and,

00:28:32:03 - 00:28:36:03
where the vents and the diffusers and everything is going.

00:28:36:05 - 00:28:37:21
We need to understand what we

00:28:37:21 - 00:28:41:24
need to tell generative design that we want.

00:28:41:26 - 00:28:45:14
And then, on the back end, we might be presented with several options.

00:28:45:17 - 00:28:48:23
We need to have the mindset,

00:28:48:23 - 00:28:52:18
the expertise to say this one makes the most sense.

00:28:52:20 - 00:28:55:26
And then we need to be able to do the quality control to check it

00:28:55:26 - 00:28:57:03
because we can’t assume it’s right.

00:28:57:03 - 00:29:01:15
You think, different example ChatGPT, you probably heard

00:29:01:15 - 00:29:02:21
the story of the college professor

00:29:02:21 - 00:29:06:15
that failed all his students because he took their essays,

00:29:06:18 - 00:29:09:22
he pasted them into ChatGPT,

00:29:09:25 - 00:29:13:24
and he said, “Did you write this?” And ChatGPT said, “Yes, I did!”

00:29:14:01 - 00:29:17:24
Well, ChatGPT said that to War and Peace as well. So?

00:29:17:27 - 00:29:20:05
So we can’t trust what we’re getting right now.

00:29:20:05 - 00:29:22:04
We might get to that point.

00:29:22:04 - 00:29:26:18
But as far as the skill set, we need to be experts on the front end,

00:29:26:18 - 00:29:28:03
and we need to be experts on the back end

00:29:28:03 - 00:29:30:04
if we’re going to utilize this technology.

00:29:30:04 - 00:29:32:21
And I don’t think we’re thinking that way.

00:29:32:21 - 00:29:35:27
Just talking with a colleague of mine this week, in fact,

00:29:36:00 - 00:29:39:27
and he’s recently moving towards retirement, but he’s not out yet.

00:29:39:27 - 00:29:44:02
And he’s like, these clients that I’m working with, they’re just accepting

00:29:44:02 - 00:29:47:13
what comes out of AI, without question.

00:29:47:15 - 00:29:50:16
So the industry is going to go downhill rapidly

00:29:50:23 - 00:29:53:21
if that’s the mindset of just, “Okay, you did it for me; I’m

00:29:53:21 - 00:29:56:21
good.” You might have garbage; you might have total garbage.

00:29:56:26 - 00:29:58:29
It’s not true. It won’t work.

00:29:58:29 - 00:30:03:00
It’s trying to have water flow uphill.

00:30:03:00 - 00:30:05:01
Gravity’s going to fight that, right?

00:30:05:01 - 00:30:07:14
We need to have the skill set to understand

00:30:07:14 - 00:30:11:00
how to utilize the newer technologies, and it’s not there.

00:30:11:07 - 00:30:13:27
And one of the reasons

00:30:13:29 - 00:30:15:09
why it’s not there

00:30:15:09 - 00:30:19:15
is that we don’t have the providers of the education.

00:30:19:15 - 00:30:23:24
The future providers of the education to help understand this are learning

00:30:23:24 - 00:30:25:00
it themselves.

00:30:25:00 - 00:30:28:22
But it’s like we’re walking

00:30:28:24 - 00:30:31:05
across the bridge as we’re building it.

00:30:31:05 - 00:30:34:11
So the people that are going to train are walking here.

00:30:34:11 - 00:30:38:03
But right next to them are the people that are already using it,

00:30:38:05 - 00:30:39:27
having not been trained.

00:30:39:27 - 00:30:42:15
So at some point, someone’s going to fall off the bridge.

00:30:42:15 - 00:30:45:09
And we need to be very aware about this

00:30:45:09 - 00:30:48:20
because, yes, technology is great, yes, we want to try these new things,

00:30:48:20 - 00:30:52:16
but we have to understand it first, and then we have to understand the skills

00:30:52:16 - 00:30:55:16
that are required to effectively utilize it.

00:30:55:18 - 00:30:58:19
And I think that’s a perfect way to think

00:30:58:19 - 00:31:01:19
about when we talk about that consultative mindset.

00:31:01:19 - 00:31:04:19
We talk about you need the technical skills at the center,

00:31:04:23 - 00:31:09:23
then you need to be able to layer on that insight and, discernment and strategy.

00:31:09:23 - 00:31:14:06
So we may have AI taking over a part of that technical skill,

00:31:14:08 - 00:31:18:12
but we still need to layer over insight discernment.

00:31:18:12 - 00:31:21:07
Is this garbage out? And then that strategy.

00:31:21:07 - 00:31:25:06
So I think as engineers leverage this technology, they need

00:31:25:06 - 00:31:28:27
to make sure they’re still looking at it in that consultative mindset.

00:31:29:00 - 00:31:32:24
And I think it is really tough right now because we’re

00:31:32:25 - 00:31:35:25
all running down the bridge, and it’s still being built.

00:31:35:25 - 00:31:39:15
But I do think there’s value sometimes in putting the tech

00:31:39:15 - 00:31:43:15
kind of like in the front hands, in the hands of the front line workers,

00:31:43:15 - 00:31:47:14
because sometimes, as leadership, we don’t even know how they may

00:31:47:14 - 00:31:50:14
leverage it or where it can be

00:31:50:15 - 00:31:53:24
really a cost saver or an efficiency saver.

00:31:53:27 - 00:31:54:17
So sometimes

00:31:54:17 - 00:31:58:12
you do have to do some piloting and let them play with it a little bit.

00:31:58:12 - 00:32:04:09
But to your point, there’s got to be a QAQC check at the end stage of it.

00:32:04:11 - 00:32:09:17
Yeah, I don’t know what ingredients are in this meal, but I know I love the meal.

00:32:09:19 - 00:32:11:28
So who’s coming up with the ingredients?

00:32:11:28 - 00:32:16:11
And I think this is really where our younger staff members

00:32:16:14 - 00:32:18:20
in our companies, up through the emerging leaders

00:32:18:20 - 00:32:21:20
in the companies, are bringing this skill set.

00:32:21:22 - 00:32:25:29
Who’s better prepared to adapt to

00:32:26:02 - 00:32:29:16
generative design to large language models?

00:32:29:19 - 00:32:31:09
It is the people that

00:32:31:09 - 00:32:35:20
grew up in technology rapidly advancing through every stage of their life

00:32:35:22 - 00:32:38:22
as opposed to, you know, me; I’m a Gen Xer.

00:32:38:22 - 00:32:39:23
I often tell the story.

00:32:39:23 - 00:32:43:12
I had one class with a computer in college, one.

00:32:43:12 - 00:32:45:25
Excuse me, let me rephrase that, high school.

00:32:45:25 - 00:32:47:27
I had one class in high school.

00:32:47:27 - 00:32:52:20
By the time I got out of college, I was using the computer every single day.

00:32:52:23 - 00:32:57:23
Now, back then, it was MS-DOS; it was a black screen with green text

00:32:57:23 - 00:33:04:26
until my second year in the workforce, we got Windows 3.1, but it was not a tech.

00:33:04:26 - 00:33:06:29
I wasn’t raised on technology.

00:33:06:29 - 00:33:09:05
It was something I had to adapt to.

00:33:09:05 - 00:33:12:27
So, you know, when we look at millennials and Gen Z,

00:33:12:27 - 00:33:18:00
we often talk about them being digital natives, whereas Gen X

00:33:18:07 - 00:33:21:07
baby boomers were more of the digital immigrants.

00:33:21:08 - 00:33:24:18
So I like to think I am on top of technology.

00:33:24:18 - 00:33:26:21
I use it all the time.

00:33:26:21 - 00:33:31:10
I try to pay attention to the trends and learn new things.

00:33:31:13 - 00:33:33:07
Part of who I am, again, as the learner.

00:33:33:07 - 00:33:34:29
That’s something I do.

00:33:34:29 - 00:33:39:04
I know a lot of people in similar roles to what I do for a living.

00:33:39:11 - 00:33:42:23
Some are age, and it’s passing them by,

00:33:42:23 - 00:33:48:27
and so the disruption is there, but the people who should be really

00:33:48:29 - 00:33:52:03
understanding the disruption and leveraging it for a company

00:33:52:10 - 00:33:57:12
is the younger professionals, the younger staff members that it’s just another day.

00:33:57:12 - 00:33:58:00
“Oh, something new.

00:33:58:00 - 00:34:03:11
Great.” So as we

00:34:03:13 - 00:34:04:29
think about all

00:34:04:29 - 00:34:08:28
this changing the changing demographics that we’re seeing, but then also

00:34:09:00 - 00:34:13:17
this reskilling that’s necessary for firms right now

00:34:13:17 - 00:34:18:20
and for leadership in firms right now, what can they be doing?

00:34:18:22 - 00:34:20:22
How do they reskill their employees?

00:34:20:22 - 00:34:22:04
How does that happen?

00:34:22:04 - 00:34:25:04
Two words, learning culture.

00:34:25:04 - 00:34:28:10
Companies need to create a learning culture.

00:34:28:13 - 00:34:30:27
We are good, in the built environment,

00:34:30:27 - 00:34:34:09
at teaching the hard skills that are required.

00:34:34:12 - 00:34:38:20
This is how you design the structure for a warehouse.

00:34:38:22 - 00:34:41:11
This is how you design a highway.

00:34:41:11 - 00:34:43:21
This is the stormwater management plan.

00:34:43:21 - 00:34:48:25
You get these hard skills that you use every day in your job, but

00:34:48:27 - 00:34:52:07
we’re talking about technology, and it’s not the skill set of using the technology.

00:34:52:09 - 00:34:56:06
It’s the

00:34:56:09 - 00:35:00:08
critical thinking that goes with it, you know, the analytical thinking.

00:35:00:10 - 00:35:06:19
It’s the ability to embrace change, change management.

00:35:06:21 - 00:35:10:19
These are soft skills that are required of companies

00:35:10:22 - 00:35:13:16
to really push down to their staff.

00:35:13:16 - 00:35:16:29
Everybody needs to have really robust soft skills.

00:35:17:02 - 00:35:20:28
And the irony is that we are at this place, in society

00:35:20:28 - 00:35:25:24
and in the business world, where change is a daily occurrence.

00:35:25:26 - 00:35:26:13
It was a daily

00:35:26:13 - 00:35:30:04
occurrence before the global pandemic that kind of accelerated some things.

00:35:30:06 - 00:35:33:03
We’re still several years since the onset.

00:35:33:03 - 00:35:37:14
We’re still a different business world than we were back then.

00:35:37:14 - 00:35:41:06
Some has come back to Norm; others may be changed forever.

00:35:41:09 - 00:35:46:08
But we’re at this place where change is a common thing.

00:35:46:11 - 00:35:52:11
It’s honestly, it’s daily something in our industry, something in the business

00:35:52:13 - 00:35:57:12
world is changing, and we’re all running to keep up with it.

00:35:57:14 - 00:36:01:16
Why are we, as an industry, why are we as companies,

00:36:01:16 - 00:36:06:05
not focused on giving our employees the skills that they need

00:36:06:05 - 00:36:07:25
to keep up with that change?

00:36:07:25 - 00:36:10:25
Part of it is change itself.

00:36:10:29 - 00:36:15:00
Change management, accept the change, be flexible, adaptable, agile,

00:36:15:06 - 00:36:18:20
be anticipatory in your thinking so you understand what’s coming.

00:36:18:22 - 00:36:21:04
Have the critical and analytical skills.

00:36:21:04 - 00:36:23:04
Have the creative thinking skills.

00:36:23:04 - 00:36:23:29
That’s part of it.

00:36:23:29 - 00:36:27:16
But then there’s, and a lot of that, I believe, is upskilling

00:36:27:18 - 00:36:30:02
because it’s going to help you do your job better today.

00:36:30:02 - 00:36:32:18
Then the reskilling is all right.

00:36:32:18 - 00:36:34:26
How are you going to use generative design?

00:36:34:26 - 00:36:37:08
How are you going to use large language models?

00:36:37:08 - 00:36:40:00
How are you going to be the prompt artist

00:36:40:00 - 00:36:44:13
on the front end and the QAQC control on the back end?

00:36:44:15 - 00:36:47:24
This is it’s critical for all these firms.

00:36:47:24 - 00:36:50:24
Every single firm should be asking this right now.

00:36:50:24 - 00:36:54:23
And if you develop a learning culture where you are

00:36:54:26 - 00:36:59:10
creating a safe space, where a new hire can come in and say,

00:36:59:12 - 00:37:03:11
I learned this new tool in college, and it’s

00:37:03:15 - 00:37:08:14
going to totally disrupt architecture, engineering, construction, whatever.

00:37:08:16 - 00:37:11:06
And you’re not even talking about it right now

00:37:11:06 - 00:37:13:17
that it should be safe for that employee to say,

00:37:13:17 - 00:37:16:25
“Hey, you know what, I can teach you a little bit of what I learned,

00:37:16:25 - 00:37:20:09
and then maybe as a group, we can go learn more.” We need to have that.

00:37:20:12 - 00:37:22:06
But this is the way we do it.

00:37:22:06 - 00:37:24:01
We’re going to continue to do it this way.

00:37:24:01 - 00:37:26:00
We’ve been doing it this way for 40 years.

00:37:26:00 - 00:37:27:04
That’s bankruptcy.

00:37:27:04 - 00:37:29:03
That is no future as a company.

00:37:29:03 - 00:37:32:00
So, develop a learning culture

00:37:32:00 - 00:37:36:11
and embrace all different types of learning from all different topics.

00:37:36:13 - 00:37:40:02
That is the only way you can keep up with this rapid rate of change that we’re

00:37:40:02 - 00:37:41:23
experiencing here.

00:37:41:23 - 00:37:49:01
That management of curiosity instead of management by fear.

00:37:49:04 - 00:37:52:05
So we’re kind of out of time here.

00:37:52:07 - 00:37:54:28
So thank you so much for joining us.

00:37:54:28 - 00:38:00:18
As always, you are the trends guy and the trends expert and on the cutting edge.

00:38:00:18 - 00:38:02:26
And it’s very much appreciated.

00:38:02:26 - 00:38:08:24
I think, as we move forward, we’re going to just see, as we know, we’re going

00:38:08:24 - 00:38:12:19
to see AE as the number three

00:38:12:20 - 00:38:15:20
most out of all the industries in the workforce,

00:38:15:25 - 00:38:19:23
the most highly disrupted by AI and automation.

00:38:19:24 - 00:38:25:12
And the rescaling that comes along with that is going to take over.

00:38:25:12 - 00:38:29:05
So I appreciate you being on today to

00:38:29:07 - 00:38:31:18
discuss that with us and to have a chat.

00:38:31:18 - 00:38:34:27
And, of course, we will have you on again.

00:38:34:29 - 00:38:36:27
Thank you so much for having me. Anytime.

00:38:36:27 - 00:38:43:29
Thank you!