Ep. 6: Mastering the AEC Career Journey: Insights on Organizational Architecture and Career Pathing

Get ready for an eye-opening episode where we peek into the world of organizational architecture, career pathing, and the fascinating impact of changing demographics, and total compensation in the AEC industry. It's time to uncover strategies to attract and retain a diverse workforce in today's shifting landscape.

In this episode, we'll explore the current labor market and how it's pushing companies to rethink their approach to people, rewards, metrics, and compensation philosophy and practices. Join the conversation for some behind-the-scenes workforce insight that can enhance both your recruiting and retention efforts.

🔔 Don't miss out! Subscribe to AEC Groundbreaking Growth on your favorite podcast platform. Let's ignite growth, shape the future of the AEC industry, and redefine what's possible. Are you ready for some groundbreaking growth? Let's dive in! 🚀💼

Transcript

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Welcome to the AEC Groundbreaking Growth Podcast.

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Hosted by Stambaugh Ness.

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Hi Everyone! I am your host Emily Lawrence,

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and I’m here with my co-host, Jen Knox.

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And we have a special guest today, Kristi Weierbach.

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Kristi, thank you for joining us today.

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Thank you for having me.

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We’re super excited to have you.

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For those who don’t know Kristi, she’s a Director of Workforce

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Advisory here at SN and kind of our guru on all things HR.

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Has a Ph.D.

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in organizational management with a focus in HR, so definitely an

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awesome resource to have at our fingertips and for our clients as well.

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Kristi, we’re going to jump right in because it’s a quick episode,

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but really for some of our listeners that may be small to midsize companies

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and not have a full HR department or a strategy around people.

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What’s one of those things that they can be thoughtful

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of around talent to really get the most out of their team?

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Yeah, the

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one suggestion I would have is, stop treating it as a one size

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fits all and try to be more specific with how you target

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either people you’re looking to add to your team or the people that you want

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to keep on your team and better understand,

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what are they looking for in their experience in your organization?

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Yeah, and I feel like that experience they’re looking for

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is so tied to one where they see themselves now

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and then potentially like where they want to take their career in the future.

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They have to know that they have a spot on your team

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or a path that’s open to them.

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I know, Emily, you experienced that at some other companies.

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It’s like it’s so rewarding and fulfilling to know where you may go in the future.

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Yeah. I

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worked at

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Fortune 100 corporate; everything is baked in, right?

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All of that.

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Your career path is baked in; your expectations are baked in.

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You have a set schedule for everything.

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And one of the things, Kristi, that you talk about is that alignment

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setting those expectations and everyone being really clear about purpose,

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about what’s expected of them, their role in the company.

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I definitely find that as a helpful tool.

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Yeah, I’ve boiled it down to three words currently.

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Maybe this will change as we move forward, but clarity, people just want to know,

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like you said, Emily, what’s expected of them and what is the role

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I’m supposed to perform, and how can I be successful at it.

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And then potential.

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What can I continue to learn

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and grow in your organization, both personally and professionally?

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And then, lastly, what’s the impact that I’m going to have.

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So either for my clients and the community, the work

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that I’m doing, that’s part of a larger objective.

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So I think those three things clarity, potential, and impact,

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and if we can connect those pieces for each person in our organization

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and get that aligned, I think we’re far better than maybe some of our competitors.

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Yeah, I loved in your recent webinar that you said

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those were the three words that really stuck out to me,

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just being really key pieces to talk about

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and to categorize as the why behind

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creating a structure and creating that purpose.

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Yeah, And if you think

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back to my original comment, it’s not going to be the same for every person.

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So think about the generation that somebody might sit in

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or is part of that could be defined differently.

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And it’s our job to understand and peel that back so

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then we can align expectations all around.

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Now, like as a tangible takeaway,

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what do you - and we say it can’t be one-size-fits-all.

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So what do you suggest firms do when they’re thinking about that growth

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of their employees or development of their employees?

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Ask them.

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Yeah.

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See what they are most interested in.

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And then also see if the role that they’re in aligns and provides

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the opportunity to be able to help them move further down that path.

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And if not, well, then what lever can we adjust to hopefully

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bring that closer to alignment?

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So how do you assess that?

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How do you get those opinions?

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Well, you talk to people, yeah,

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if supervisors are meeting regularly, hopefully they are.

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If not, maybe a survey.

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So that way, it could be anonymous or specific.

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But yeah, you have to talk to people, and you have to make time for them

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and not just focus on discussing the work and the tasks

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that are in front of you today,

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but rather just have some focused time, and it doesn’t have to be long.

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It could just be ten or 15 minutes.

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But asking some very specific questions, What are you looking for?

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Where do you want to continue to grow your skills

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or increase your knowledge or develop more experience?

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So it could be a variety of projects.

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It could be something more challenging.

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I mean, possibilities are endless. Yeah.

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And I think especially for like engineers and architects;

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it’s like oftentimes they feel like there’s this set path.

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They feel like they have to take from a technical role

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to maybe a senior engineer, then to project management.

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And that doesn’t it’s not always for everyone, right?

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That project management or even people management

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that’s not always something that individuals are interested in.

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They may really love their technical expertise and giving that value

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to projects; that’s something I think that we kind of get stuck in

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and is just thinking there’s this one way up.

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Right, and learning can happen both vertically and horizontally.

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And you’re exactly right, Jen.

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Some people just don’t want to have to handle the people side of it.

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They don’t want to leave.

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They don’t want to manage.

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And it’s okay because we need our technical rockstars as well.

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And there can be a path where they continue to refine

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their skills and just accumulate more experiences.

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I think you

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mentioned that in your podcasts or in your webinar as well.

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When you were talking about some people don’t necessarily

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they aren’t looking to climb the ladder at the company, but

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there is such a broad way to where they can keep developing and still feel

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like they’re developing in their career just with their technical skills.

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Now Kristi, when you have an individual like that

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or are thinking about these different ways of development, either vertically

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or jumping over horizontally, how does that kind of affect compensation

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or how employees are compensated for those multiple roles they may be playing?

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I feel like that can be tough for leaders

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in an organization to figure out a balance there.

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Yeah, exactly that.

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Thinking about, okay,

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how much time are they spending either doing the technical part of their role,

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the business development, the project management, the leadership, and so forth?

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And so

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you might have to apply some percentages to the data that you’re comparing to.

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So if you’re going out to look at industry medians or midpoints,

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applying potentially a blend,

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you might have to do a pro-rated calculation to determine what really

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should the compensation be for the role that that person is performing.

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Because sometimes, it’s not just one role; it is multiple roles

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like you had shared.

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And so yeah, that sometimes you have to apply a little bit of an art

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so much as we want to science to it, we can try to get it pretty close,

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but you might have to put a little bit of a qualitative analysis on top of it.

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Yeah, and when you’re talking about that compensation.

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One of the things that you talk a lot about is

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when you’re going

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down into your levels, your leveling, and then you’re doing

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the compensation based on the levels and the titles of positions.

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So one of the things that I think I’ve

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experienced at other companies is that

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people are giving out titles sort of freely, and there isn’t

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an alignment around title-specific language or what that looks like.

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So they like someone they want to keep them at the company,

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so they negotiate a title that is somewhat subjective.

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So how does that affect things as far as compensation and also as far

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as accountability and clarity on where you can go within the company?

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So that career pathing piece?

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Yeah, I have found that companies do a disservice

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to individuals when they artificially inflate a title.

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So in order to maybe

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retain them, they’ll say, Oh, well, I’ll call you a senior X, Y, Z.

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And so then when that person steps out and maybe looks at going somewhere else

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now, they think that they probably deserve

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a role that’s higher than maybe what their skills bring to the table.

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And so it is really important that you know, the title

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can be like lipstick, it can be interchangeable and so forth,

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but you really have to look at the role, and that’s what you want to compare to

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when you’re going out and looking at the data

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to make sure that the responsibilities are aligned,

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the skills needed, the knowledge that’s accumulated and so forth.

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As years of experience, are they similar or are they different?

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And that all plays into how we define

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the pay ranges for each role

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because it can quickly get imbalanced, especially if we allow our hiring managers

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to make all the decisions surrounding compensation.

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And if we don’t have a framework in place to help them guide

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through those conversations when they’re looking to hire or promote someone.

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And I wonder if we

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can pivot a little bit and focus on that compensation piece.

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And maybe, Kristi, I would ask you, are there some trends out there that are

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changing and shifting around compensation, especially around maybe demographics

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and how different generations may view

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total compensation and where they really place

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value on one portion or the other?

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Yeah.

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So compensation is larger than just the base salary.

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Sometimes people want to connect it just to the base salary.

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But if you think about incentives, bonuses, overtime,

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all of the different benefits and the value of PTO,

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and so forth that you provide, it is a total package.

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And so one educating employees so they truly understand what’s

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all included in that package.

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So if they are doing an external comparison, it’s

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apples to apples rather than trying to compare an apple to an orange.

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But yeah, you’re right, Jen; the different generations

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are at different points in their lives or different seasons of their lives.

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And so, what they’re motivated by or

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most interested in could be different from one age group to another.

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So think about those who might be within the ten-year window of retirement.

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They might largely be interested on how much is my company

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going to put into my retirement plan or what insurance

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do I need to have in place, maybe a more fruitful plan

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that will cover some of those more expensive prescriptions

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or increasing medical procedures and tests and so forth.

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And then somebody younger might be just thinking about

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how am I going to afford to help put my parents in an assisted facility?

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How am I going to pay off my college tuition?

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How am I going to pay to raise a family?

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So understanding the needs of our people in the seasons of their

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life is so important because then are we doing a good enough job

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with pulling that package together in a meaningful way for them?

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And maybe it doesn’t have to look the same from one generation to the other, right?

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So sometimes, the art is just in how we communicate and where we place emphasis

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on the value that the organization is providing for them.

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Interesting.

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I find that so, like, tough to think about is like, can you,

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when you’re trying to meet the needs of various generations,

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it’s like, how far can you go of tailoring it?

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Or, to your point is it just maybe communicating

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the same package in a little bit different of a way?

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Yeah, and to vary from one company to another.

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So it is really an art.

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And I think we’ve talked about this as a company

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and on separate webinars, but one of the main things

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that younger people are looking for is that compensation.

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Absolutely.

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Like, can I afford to pay my rent and all of my bills?

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How am I actually surviving here, especially during

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COVID, was a huge eye-opener for people entering into the workforce.

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That was huge. People were cutting salaries.

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There was not enough work.

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So I think that was a major shift as well in mindset.

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So younger people, of course, we’re looking at compensation and who’s

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going to pay us the most because anything can happen.

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There’s an uncertainty, I think, that that created.

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But then also, I think we really talked about a large percentage of people

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really just want that opportunity to develop

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and want companies to invest in their development.

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And when you look at the number, the

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money that you’re going to spend investing in someone’s development

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and then the money that you’re going to invest in replacing them when they leave.

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And I think the average for marketing people in AEC is 2.8 years

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within the first year.

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Yeah, that’s tough.

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And to your point, Emily,

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the other thing you got to keep in

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mind is the recruitment costs it took to get them there.

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Right?

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You’ve already that’s a sunk cost already.

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If you lose that, you’ve got to go back out and do that again.

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So, how do you keep them

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at your company longer and keep your company sticky to them?

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We always say.

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And I think is it that development and knowing that there’s a future

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for them and they can grow.

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And part of the equation that

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you know isn’t really tangible is just the additional pressure on the team,

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who either has to keep training individuals and or assuming

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some of the tasks while the individuals are getting brought up to speed.

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And then you also

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see a decrease in efficiency as well as somebody as being brought up to speed.

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So there’s so many other things at play that if we would have just taken a little

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bit more time and energy on the front side and invested a little bit more effort,

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we could have held on to them and not had that ripple effect

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affect us further out and just think about it.

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You lose one or two people.

00:15:17:23 - 00:15:20:00
Think about some companies that are losing more than that

00:15:20:00 - 00:15:23:29
and just all of the costs and variables surrounding that.

00:15:23:29 - 00:15:25:11
It’s significant.

00:15:25:11 - 00:15:29:21
Yeah, and especially I feel that

00:15:29:23 - 00:15:30:29
you can see that much more

00:15:30:29 - 00:15:34:25
clearly in construction sometimes, especially with the skilled trades.

00:15:34:25 - 00:15:41:06
You bring a laborer on, and you invest in some training, but not enough.

00:15:41:08 - 00:15:44:14
It creates a safety concern, productivity

00:15:44:14 - 00:15:48:09
decreases, how much that crew can get done in a day.

00:15:48:11 - 00:15:51:11
But if you invest just a little bit more right enough

00:15:51:11 - 00:15:55:07
that they can do their job safely and efficiently,

00:15:55:07 - 00:15:58:22
they’re much more likely to stay; you’ll get more out of them.

00:15:58:24 - 00:16:03:09
And the whole cohesion of the team, to your point, Kristi, is so much better.

00:16:03:11 - 00:16:06:24
Yeah.

00:16:06:27 - 00:16:08:16
In that same light,

00:16:08:16 - 00:16:11:09
I guess when we’re thinking about development

00:16:11:09 - 00:16:16:06
and retaining people, performance improvement, I think, is such a key

00:16:16:06 - 00:16:20:15
part of that is getting that feedback on how you’re doing,

00:16:20:18 - 00:16:24:09
what the expectations are, kind of where you need

00:16:24:09 - 00:16:27:11
to maybe invest or change your approach to things.

00:16:27:11 - 00:16:33:14
So how does performance improvement really tie into all of this?

00:16:33:17 - 00:16:35:28
Well, it all starts with

00:16:35:28 - 00:16:40:29
do we really provide a way for employees to know what’s expected of them?

00:16:41:02 - 00:16:44:27
Commonly, when I ask companies, “How are your job descriptions?

00:16:44:27 - 00:16:48:20
Do you have them, and are they up to date?” And a lot of times,

00:16:48:20 - 00:16:52:02
no, it’s just not something that’s at the top of the priority list.

00:16:52:02 - 00:16:55:02
And over time, jobs evolve and change.

00:16:55:02 - 00:16:58:27
And so, making sure employees know what do I need to do to be successful?

00:16:58:27 - 00:17:02:21
What are the skills that I need that will help me be successful?

00:17:02:23 - 00:17:05:20
And so if we position them to be successful

00:17:05:20 - 00:17:09:14
now, if there is a gap in performance, we can point back to the areas

00:17:09:14 - 00:17:14:08
specifically and give examples of, hey, these are the things that you can do

00:17:14:08 - 00:17:18:29
to elevate your performance in these one, two or three areas.

00:17:18:29 - 00:17:24:26
And so, having more specific conversations with examples allows employees

00:17:24:26 - 00:17:29:03
then to connect the task or the thing that they need to do

00:17:29:03 - 00:17:33:17
to be able to get to a better place, and so I long held

00:17:33:17 - 00:17:37:21
that job descriptions are a critical piece that organizations need.

00:17:37:21 - 00:17:41:22
I know there’s argument that they’re not needed, but I really believe they are

00:17:41:22 - 00:17:45:19
because we have to be at peace knowing that we did everything we could

00:17:45:19 - 00:17:47:27
to help our people be successful.

00:17:47:27 - 00:17:51:22
One, by having that clarity and giving them the opportunity to know

00:17:51:22 - 00:17:54:22
what’s expected of them, what did they sign up for?

00:17:54:26 - 00:17:57:05
But then, did we give them all the resources and tools?

00:17:57:05 - 00:18:01:03
Did we make the investments in the technology and or that learning

00:18:01:03 - 00:18:05:13
and growth to help them continue to refine their skills and so forth?

00:18:05:13 - 00:18:10:05
So yeah, I always start with the question, have I, as a supervisor or organization,

00:18:10:05 - 00:18:14:21
done enough to help position that person to be successful and perform

00:18:14:26 - 00:18:17:28
to where I would expect them to be?

00:18:18:00 - 00:18:20:21
Well, and I find that really an interesting point, too,

00:18:20:21 - 00:18:24:02
because I think there’s such a disparity between what leadership views

00:18:24:02 - 00:18:30:02
as development programs and the way that employees

00:18:30:04 - 00:18:33:21
view their opportunities to develop at companies.

00:18:33:23 - 00:18:38:10
So I was just looking up some surveys recently,

00:18:38:10 - 00:18:44:11
and there was a survey that said it was, like 94% of architecture

00:18:44:13 - 00:18:48:03
is anywhere from 80 to 94% was a couple of the surveys

00:18:48:03 - 00:18:49:22
I looked at that,

00:18:49:22 - 00:18:54:03
they had survey them asking if they felt like they had development

00:18:54:03 - 00:18:57:28
and career opportunities for employees and provided that to their employees.

00:18:58:00 - 00:19:00:18
And 80 to 94% of them

00:19:00:18 - 00:19:04:11
said “Yes,” that they did, that they felt like they had that.

00:19:04:14 - 00:19:07:00
And then another survey that came in and actually worded it,

00:19:07:00 - 00:19:11:21
do you have a formal development program in place, do you have formal

00:19:11:21 - 00:19:16:28
career pathing opportunities, and it dropped to, I think, 66%.

00:19:17:01 - 00:19:22:03
And then another survey that actually went out to employees

00:19:22:03 - 00:19:24:21
and said, do you feel like

00:19:24:23 - 00:19:27:01
the company you work for, do

00:19:27:01 - 00:19:31:11
you have proper career opportunities and learning development opportunities?

00:19:31:11 - 00:19:37:11
And I think it was 80 some percent said “No,” they should be doing more.

00:19:37:14 - 00:19:39:21
So I think there’s a huge disparity.

00:19:39:21 - 00:19:42:19
It’s like, do you have a formal one in place?

00:19:42:19 - 00:19:46:24
Is that something you recommend would be

00:19:46:26 - 00:19:49:26
critical for employees to feel that way?

00:19:49:27 - 00:19:53:14
You need a framework, but I don’t know that I would use the word formal.

00:19:53:14 - 00:19:55:06
I think intentional.

00:19:55:06 - 00:19:59:25
So if we know that there’s a skill gap, let’s say we have the job description

00:19:59:25 - 00:20:02:26
and there’s somebody falling short, and there’s a gap we have to fill,

00:20:02:26 - 00:20:06:01
and it’s highly urgent, well then helping the supervisor

00:20:06:01 - 00:20:09:29
or leader to identify opportunities to develop that skill.

00:20:09:29 - 00:20:12:09
It may not be a college course.

00:20:12:09 - 00:20:17:10
It may not be a class or a seminar, but rather maybe that person job

00:20:17:10 - 00:20:22:01
shadowing, going along and having an experience and then,

00:20:22:08 - 00:20:25:05
you know, debriefing from that experience to talk about,

00:20:25:05 - 00:20:27:23
okay, what are the things that we

00:20:27:26 - 00:20:30:20
saw observed, what are the recommendations, etc.

00:20:30:20 - 00:20:34:13
So helping supervisors to identify more specifically

00:20:34:13 - 00:20:39:02
how they can connect talent gaps or talent

00:20:39:04 - 00:20:41:27
desires those skills that they want to increase,

00:20:41:27 - 00:20:45:06
what can we specifically do day in and day out?

00:20:45:06 - 00:20:47:04
Instead of looking up and saying, Oh my gosh,

00:20:47:04 - 00:20:48:26
I should have brought that person along with me.

00:20:48:26 - 00:20:51:00
It would have been a great learning opportunity. Right?

00:20:51:00 - 00:20:53:16
Being on the front side; I think would be a lot better.

00:20:53:16 - 00:20:58:05
So I go back to intentional is what I think we need to be better at.

00:20:58:07 - 00:20:59:04
I love that.

00:20:59:04 - 00:21:02:22
I think that sort of fits if you’re intentional

00:21:02:22 - 00:21:07:00
about developing your employees, and they recognize that intention.

00:21:07:02 - 00:21:10:25
And I feel like that’s something that they can discuss

00:21:10:27 - 00:21:11:25
openly.

00:21:11:25 - 00:21:16:04
Yeah, that’s like even like Emily, and I do this is like identify

00:21:16:04 - 00:21:18:22
maybe some meetings that

00:21:18:22 - 00:21:22:06
our leaders are having in the next week or so that we can sit in on

00:21:22:08 - 00:21:27:00
just to start to hear the level of the conversation at that point.

00:21:27:00 - 00:21:29:21
And how they’re engaging with clients and whatnot.

00:21:29:21 - 00:21:32:02
So I think that’s an awesome way to your point, Kristi.

00:21:32:02 - 00:21:36:03
It’s not a formal thing we have, but it’s just an intentional way

00:21:36:03 - 00:21:40:01
that we want to make sure you’re getting these touches of development

00:21:40:04 - 00:21:42:18
throughout your week or throughout your month.

00:21:42:18 - 00:21:47:02
Yeah, and I’d like to highlight so those organizations like Stambaugh Ness,

00:21:47:03 - 00:21:50:24
where we are almost 100% remote,

00:21:50:26 - 00:21:55:00
you know, historically along the way, when I was physically in an office,

00:21:55:00 - 00:21:56:14
I had people tell me, Kristi,

00:21:56:14 - 00:22:00:19
I just learned so much by overhearing your conversations and eavesdropping.

00:22:00:21 - 00:22:02:11
Well, that doesn’t happen now.

00:22:02:11 - 00:22:05:22
And so I, as a leader, have to be even more intentional.

00:22:05:22 - 00:22:08:27
And I’ll admit, I don’t know that I always do the best at it.

00:22:08:27 - 00:22:09:06
Right.

00:22:09:06 - 00:22:12:24
Because you’re just in the throes of your day and meeting to meeting a meeting.

00:22:12:24 - 00:22:16:18
So that’s the advice I would give to the audience, is that

00:22:16:20 - 00:22:21:18
thinking about the change in the workplace dynamic a couple of years ago till today

00:22:21:18 - 00:22:26:20
and just trying to be more intentional with how we can share those experiences

00:22:26:22 - 00:22:29:29
and knowledge with the younger generations or people who are stepping

00:22:29:29 - 00:22:33:05
into new roles.

00:22:33:08 - 00:22:36:08
Yeah, and again, it goes back to that word intentional.

00:22:36:13 - 00:22:36:21
Yeah.

00:22:36:21 - 00:22:41:12
And also, you brought up something to was like creating a culture.

00:22:41:19 - 00:22:47:23
Like if you’re aligned and everyone’s sort of aligned on culture

00:22:47:25 - 00:22:50:00
because I do think part of that is a cultural thing,

00:22:50:00 - 00:22:52:06
because I think a lot of times as a younger employee,

00:22:52:06 - 00:22:55:05
you do have to raise your hand, especially in a virtual environment.

00:22:55:05 - 00:22:58:11
You do have to raise your hand and say; I’d like to be involved in this.

00:22:58:11 - 00:23:04:15
I’d like to pursue this opportunity or do this class, or

00:23:04:16 - 00:23:07:16
I would like to attend your meeting.

00:23:07:18 - 00:23:12:04
And so that’s a feeling comfortable as well, like leadership.

00:23:12:06 - 00:23:15:10
You know, I think that is a responsibility as far as culture goes,

00:23:15:10 - 00:23:19:05
is to allow younger employees to feel free to raise their hand and say

00:23:19:05 - 00:23:23:17
hey and not feel like they’re going to get shut down or like,

00:23:23:20 - 00:23:26:01
there are times where it’s like, not yet.

00:23:26:01 - 00:23:29:06
At least, though, they hopefully,

00:23:29:06 - 00:23:32:07
they’re creating a culture that they feel like they can raise their hand.

00:23:32:07 - 00:23:33:23
Right? It’s a safe space.

00:23:33:23 - 00:23:36:24
You can take a risk and be like, hey, that’s something I might be interested in.

00:23:36:24 - 00:23:37:24
Can I sit in?

00:23:37:24 - 00:23:40:06
And to your point, it could be a no, not right now.

00:23:40:06 - 00:23:42:16
Or this is not the best client to sit in on.

00:23:42:16 - 00:23:44:20
But two weeks from now, I have another great one.

00:23:44:20 - 00:23:46:25
You could sit in on.

00:23:46:25 - 00:23:48:04
That cultural thing.

00:23:48:04 - 00:23:48:13
Yeah.

00:23:48:13 - 00:23:52:10
And I think each person has to own their own learning journey.

00:23:52:16 - 00:23:56:12
But a supervisor or leader has a responsibility to help that person

00:23:56:12 - 00:23:57:11
bring it to life.

00:23:57:11 - 00:24:00:14
Like, be their champion a little bit.

00:24:00:14 - 00:24:01:05
Right? Right.

00:24:01:05 - 00:24:04:15
Yeah. It’s like a flower.

00:24:04:15 - 00:24:07:15
Help them bloom. Know to help them bloom.

00:24:07:16 - 00:24:11:01
Well, not something that I think people at smaller companies

00:24:11:01 - 00:24:14:21
cause I think I think in terms of obviously marketing,

00:24:14:23 - 00:24:19:27
you might be the only marketing person sitting at the company.

00:24:19:29 - 00:24:22:29
So it’s sort of who do you get development from?

00:24:22:29 - 00:24:27:03
Like how do you develop in your role when you have no one

00:24:27:03 - 00:24:30:27
sitting there that’s above you on your team?

00:24:30:29 - 00:24:34:00
I know a lot of people that

00:24:34:03 - 00:24:36:15
are marketers, and they’re the only ones on their team.

00:24:36:15 - 00:24:39:08
And I think, you know,

00:24:39:08 - 00:24:43:12
one of the things that I always recommend when I’m talking to people that

00:24:43:15 - 00:24:46:14
maybe don’t have, honestly anybody, but people that don’t

00:24:46:14 - 00:24:51:19
have a lot of peer development even

00:24:51:21 - 00:24:54:21
is seeking out mentorship

00:24:54:22 - 00:24:57:03
and joining organizations

00:24:57:03 - 00:25:00:24
and having the company support you and joining

00:25:00:25 - 00:25:03:27
those types of organizations so you can bring back that knowledge.

00:25:03:27 - 00:25:08:05
So you can develop, so you can do that, and to seek out mentors

00:25:08:05 - 00:25:12:22
that are different than you, that are similar to you.

00:25:12:23 - 00:25:17:21
Like just find people that you connect with, that you like what they do,

00:25:17:23 - 00:25:22:15
and that’s how you can also kind of grab on to your own career development.

00:25:22:15 - 00:25:25:28
I’ve had to do that in positions I’ve had in the past.

00:25:26:01 - 00:25:31:02
Well, one of the biggest places is joining a networking association.

00:25:31:02 - 00:25:34:12
So for me, like the Society of Human Resource Management,

00:25:34:15 - 00:25:38:09
going to industry-specific conferences and sitting with

00:25:38:12 - 00:25:41:29
different people at the lunch table, the breakfast table, and just strike up

00:25:41:29 - 00:25:46:06
conversation or sitting in a session and you’ll hear other experiences.

00:25:46:06 - 00:25:50:15
And that helps with learning and building on the knowledge that you have to date.

00:25:50:18 - 00:25:57:00
So yeah, try and find every opportunity to learn something new as often as you can.

00:25:57:02 - 00:25:58:26
And I think as leaders,

00:25:58:26 - 00:26:03:17
especially in this industry, if you’re a leader of a company,

00:26:03:19 - 00:26:07:10
if you’re being exposed to all the different opportunities

00:26:07:10 - 00:26:10:29
for that development, like to all the different organizations,

00:26:11:02 - 00:26:13:25
and you can provide that information to the younger employees

00:26:13:25 - 00:26:15:27
because they don’t know what they don’t know. Right?

00:26:15:27 - 00:26:18:04
And there could be a really good opportunity for them.

00:26:18:04 - 00:26:24:00
So I think as leaders, that’s also something that you can provide to them

00:26:24:02 - 00:26:29:02
is I may not be a marketing person, but I do know about, you know, SMPS.

00:26:29:05 - 00:26:31:16
This is one of the

00:26:31:16 - 00:26:35:21
I think it’s the best organization for marketing professionals.

00:26:35:22 - 00:26:37:29
I serve on the Colorado Communications Committee.

00:26:37:29 - 00:26:41:22
So look out for newsletters and blogs that

00:26:41:24 - 00:26:43:27
yeah, I mean, that’s

00:26:43:27 - 00:26:48:11
how I’ve sort of learned a lot of my skills

00:26:48:13 - 00:26:51:18
in my career is just joining organizations,

00:26:51:18 - 00:26:54:18
finding mentors and like, I’m the first one to be like,

00:26:54:21 - 00:26:58:24
have you heard about this organization or can I connect you to this person?

00:26:58:26 - 00:27:02:14
And I think even if you can’t career path someone

00:27:02:16 - 00:27:06:11
at the company necessarily, it’s like you we’re talking about, it’s

00:27:06:11 - 00:27:09:25
those other ways to provide opportunities for development.

00:27:12:18 - 00:27:17:01
Well, Kristi, before we wrap up,

00:27:17:03 - 00:27:20:25
Jen and I had a dying question for you.

00:27:20:28 - 00:27:24:00
We wanted to get to you, and it has to do

00:27:24:00 - 00:27:27:18
with the compensation sort of around that.

00:27:27:18 - 00:27:30:29
But you talk about these outliers that sometimes when you’re going

00:27:30:29 - 00:27:35:28
through the process of identifying that architecture

00:27:35:28 - 00:27:42:12
and then identifying the levels and the compensation and that alignment of

00:27:42:15 - 00:27:45:18
that, I think you mentioned that there’s outliers.

00:27:45:18 - 00:27:48:21
And so we were curious, is there

00:27:48:23 - 00:27:50:07
any type of outlier or

00:27:50:07 - 00:27:54:09
experience that you’ve had to kind of handle

00:27:54:09 - 00:27:58:24
that stands out in your many years of experience?

00:27:58:26 - 00:27:59:10
Yeah.

00:27:59:10 - 00:28:04:17
So there’s a couple different ways that outliers come to be with compensation.

00:28:04:19 - 00:28:09:00
One is that the demand coming out of college of our students

00:28:09:00 - 00:28:12:24
is higher than it was many years ago, and that’s putting wage compression

00:28:12:27 - 00:28:16:26
on the people that have been in the craft for ten, 15, 20 years.

00:28:16:26 - 00:28:21:09
So that can be just difficult conversation, right?

00:28:21:11 - 00:28:24:24
I’m trying to navigate through that wage compression.

00:28:24:27 - 00:28:28:08
Sometimes you have somebody who completely goes out of the pay range

00:28:28:08 - 00:28:30:00
because they’re technically awesome, but they’re

00:28:30:00 - 00:28:33:09
not accumulating any more responsibilities.

00:28:33:09 - 00:28:38:16
And so that too can create an imbalance with our pay ranges and so forth.

00:28:38:16 - 00:28:41:19
So yeah, there’s times where we’ve identified

00:28:41:19 - 00:28:44:27
that somebody has that glorified title, right

00:28:45:00 - 00:28:49:09
prematurely promoted to Project Manager or something like that.

00:28:49:12 - 00:28:52:11
And so then, when we go through the exercise of trying

00:28:52:11 - 00:28:56:07
to align the roles with the data and creating good pay range

00:28:56:07 - 00:28:59:27
framework, we sometimes have to have those difficult conversations.

00:28:59:27 - 00:29:01:21
So yeah, it happens.

00:29:01:21 - 00:29:05:16
It’s normal, but you know, we have experience to help people through it.

00:29:05:18 - 00:29:08:10
Yeah, well, let me tell you a new one

00:29:08:10 - 00:29:12:07
that works with you, Kristi, I know they have a great resource.

00:29:12:07 - 00:29:16:14
I’ve seen you kind of navigate clients around some difficult stuff.

00:29:16:14 - 00:29:19:26
So it’s definitely awesome to have you on the show.

00:29:19:26 - 00:29:23:03
And I’m sure Emily will have her back at some point, right?

00:29:23:05 - 00:29:26:02
Yes, absolutely.

00:29:26:04 - 00:29:26:14
Thank you.

00:29:26:14 - 00:29:27:23
This has been fun, ladies.

00:29:27:23 - 00:29:28:23
It was it was great.

00:29:28:23 - 00:29:31:19
And I love how you kind of started it all off with.

00:29:31:19 - 00:29:34:19
It’s not one size fits all meaning down.

00:29:34:19 - 00:29:38:03
Have those key conversations with our employees see where they want

00:29:38:03 - 00:29:41:20
to take their careers and help them kind of navigate that and get there.

00:29:41:20 - 00:29:44:29
So, yeah, great conversation, and thank you so much.

00:29:45:01 - 00:29:46:08
Thank you.

00:38:41:07 - 00:38:42:21
Yeah,

00:38:42:21 - 00:38:44:29
well, you know.