Sierra Ullrich - Environmental Scientist at MP Systems

This month I am joined by Sierra Ullrich, my fiance and Environmentalist!

Transcript

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Hello, friends. My name is Zach and welcome to the end of the danger podcast, where we have conversations to help us grow in our skills, enter into difficult conversations, kindness, empathy and curiosity so that we can be more effective in our jobs and have deeper and more meaningful relationships. My guest this month is Sierra Ulrich. Sierra is an environmental scientist for MP Systems, which is a company here in Wisconsin. Uh, she moved from California out here to Wisconsin because we're going to be getting married in almost a month. Uh, almost exactly a month, actually. Um, I'm really excited for you guys to listen to this conversation. I'm obviously biased because she's my fiance, but I think it's brilliant and we're going to jump straight into it. I am really glad for the first time ever to have an in person interview on the podcast. Uh, thank you very much to my beautiful fiancee, Sierra, for joining me on the podcast today. Um, I'm not sure how the live in person thing will go, so, uh, please have grace with us. Usually I do these over Zoom. But it's going to be great. I think it's going to be great. Um, so Sierra, what is, we're just going to get straight into the podcast now for everyone listening. Sierra, um, what's one event that affects how you enter the danger with other people? Oh gosh, there's so many. Um, I think one that comes to mind and I'll probably bring this scenario up later cause I, I've listened to all of the podcasts and I know what the questions are going to be. But, uh, one, the one that comes to mind immediately is. Um, I was, so I was in the Navy for a while and it was rough for a while. And I just remember I had this one conversation with a friend virtually cause I was out on deployment. I think I was in South Korea in like a coffee shop or something searching for wifi. And I was video calling with a, my best friend at the time. And I was just telling her all of the woes of deployment and how, you know, Unhappy I was and how it was just being, it was just so rough. And she said something, um, very honest that I needed to hear that I had it. I literally hadn't thought of myself, but she said, Sierra, I don't think you're cut out for this. And. In that moment, I realized that my whole life, that phrase, you're not cut out for this or that, that person's not cut out for it. It's always used kind of in a derogatory term, like, oh, they don't have it. They don't have what it takes, blah, blah, blah. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Um, in that moment and in reflecting over years, cause I was years ago, just realizing that it's okay to not be cut out for something. If that's not what I was made to do, of course, I'm not going to. Be thriving when I'm doing it. So looking back at that conversation, I think going into the danger or dangerous conversations with other people, with I guess curiosity and humility, that, that, I'm always remembering that conversation. I'm like, oh my gosh, what if I didn't listen to her? Yeah. What if I said. No, I'm totally, I can totally do this. I'm totally made to do this, blah, blah, blah. And continued on as I was going, my life would be dramatically different and probably not that great compared to what it is now. So does that answer the question? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, next one. Who's one high impact person that has helped you enter the danger more consistently and in a more healthy way? Ooh, uh, probably my, really close friend slash mentor slash chosen big sister, um, name's Danielle. She really kind of took me under her wing a few years ago and helped me realize this, this, maybe this sounds like a cop out, but learning to enter the danger with myself, like she is the one who made going to therapy sound normal and safe and that's something, it's something that I should do. And so she just really, she was probably the one, and multiple people had suggested counseling before her, but I think she was the one who got to know me well enough and Not push it too hard and she had also she has also been through a ton of stuff. And so The healing that she's gone through and making making me realize like oh that's possible for me too That kind of healing is possible for me and being willing to Enter that really scary Realm of my brain basically and it's been a multi multi year journey ever since then but I think without her in my life, I probably would not have gone a healing journey as we call it and You Being willing to just like it got worse before it got better. That's for sure. And so just understanding that thought, I guess I didn't know going into it that it was going to get worse before it got better. And that's what had to happen. Or else I just would have been stuck in survival mode for who knows how long growing and moving on, I guess. Yeah, you kind of already shared a little bit of a story. And I know you've got a lot, but can you share another story with specifics about how she entered the danger with you and how that shaped you? Yeah, um, we were at dinner one time when we lived in, when we both lived in San Diego. Now we both live in the Midwest, but I just remember having dinner with her and her just, you know, And she had already known me for several months at this point, and lots of deep conversations, and she was just very clear. It's like, Sierra, you will not move forward. You will be stuck in this repetitive cycle of She said victimhood, but in a way that is what it was. Basically, she was just very, she had to be very clear. with the reality of my situation. If you, if you choose to stay here, you're not going to move forward. And I think what was important is she had built that safe relationship leading up to that conversation. It wasn't just some person who had known me for two weeks and was like, you should go to therapy. It was someone who I deeply trusted and admired and respected. And she knows that or knew that at the time as well. So she just had to be very clear. Um, clarity is kindness. And she cared about me enough to tell me what I didn't want to hear, basically. So how, because none of us get to that place where we're stuck in these self destructive loops on purpose. We never, we never start out a year saying, this year I'm going to get struck in a self destructive loop. But how, like, so how does that happen when someone has to come and slap us upside the head and say, You're being an idiot. You need to cut it out. Like, how do you get to that point? And how do, how do we even come to term? Cause you've been talking a lot about kind of entering the danger with yourself and with your, with your own mind. Why, why do you think it's necessary to have a third party come in and we can't see it ourselves? Oh yeah. Well, I mean, if we want to use the metaphor of a self destructive loop, you're literally stuck in a loop. There's so much you don't see and we can't see beyond the healing that we haven't done yet. And so we need people. surrounding us who have gone through the fire as well and have come out the other side and can look back and be like, Oh yeah, that was me. I totally see that. And it's by the grace of God that I had those people in my life. Especially Danielle, to see where I was and remember that that's where she was. And she had gone through the healing to be able to speak into my life. Um, and so really it comes down to, like, no matter where you're at in life, community is vital. We're not designed to do life on our own for that exact reason. We have blind spots. No matter what, whether we're healthy or not, we're always going to have blind spots. And that's why we need to have people around us to help call us out and push us, push us forward into what we're supposed to be. So if I'm hearing you, it's, it's, it's, um, a little bit like the story of the guy who stuck down in a really deep hole and he can't get out and his friend walks by and jumps in the hole with And the guy stuck down there already says, what are you doing? Now we're both stuck in the hole. He's like, yeah, but I was here. I know how to get out. Is that kind of what you're saying? Like when we, when we've been, when we're stuck in this hole and we can't see a way out, we essentially need someone who's gone out before to jump down. And yes, well, and I think, yeah, that's absolutely true. And I think, and I, I don't think I'm the only one who thought this way, but when I, when you're in the hole, You kind of get to a place where you're like, all right, this is it. This is my life. And this is what I've known for so long. And so I'm just going to stay here. This is fine. And that's what I, that's what I called when, when I was in survival mode in the several years after leaving the Navy, where I was like, this is just how I am. This is how it's going to be. And it took people like Danielle being like, Oh no, that's, that's a trauma response. That's anxiety. That's X, Y, Z or whatever. And kind of giving me the language to understand that my situation isn't like thriving. Like it's not, it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't, I don't have to be stuck here. There are other things. But you also have to do the work of getting out of the hole. And she was that person who was like, Oh, by the way, there's a hidden ladder, this rock or whatever. The metaphor breaks down, but does that, does that help? Yeah. So how, so, um, how does it, how does it become entering the danger when someone's having a conversation, when they're trying to get you out of the hole? Because I would think that it's a good conversation, like it's a really helpful, healthy conversation. Does it feel like from your perspective, specifically when it's, you know, whether we're talking about mental health issues or if we're talking about destructive habits or what, does it feel from your perspective as if it is a really difficult conversation to be in, even though at the end you, you can see the light or does it feel from the start, like, Oh, actually this is really good. Oh, I think it entirely depends on where your head's at. If you, pride gets in the way so quickly and so easily where somebody, and it happened over years and years of people being like, hey, have you thought about this? And my pride was like, no, I'm fine. Or you don't know what you're talking about. You haven't been through it. I've been through. insert excuse here, and it was all coming from pride of no, I can handle this. This is, this is who I am and it makes me better and blah, blah, blah. Um, so in a way for the other person, it could be entering the danger because if, if a person isn't ready to start healing, they're not going to, they're going to find excuses to stay where they are, where they are and, and stay stuck in the hole because that's what they've always known and it's pride and honestly fear probably that keeps them there. Um, and honestly, I mean this is a way bigger topic, but lack of access to resources to heal. Um, I think there's several thousands of people who are stuck in holes but don't have either the people around them to lift them up out of the hole or they don't have access to counselors or whatever it is. I had access to all of that and I refused it for years. Yeah. Because of anger and cry and fear. So it almost sounds like that for one party, in this case, we used Danielle since it could have been a very, like, it could have felt like she's entering the danger. It could be a really difficult conversation. But on your side, it isn't. And I'm kind of curious about that idea of one of the parties involved one of the people involved could feel like, oh my gosh, this is going to be the most difficult conversation I've ever had. And the other, the other person barely even notices that it's happening because they're kind of stuck in it. Maybe. Yeah. I think, I think the big kicker for that specific situation was we had built a strong relationship before this hard conversation and I like deeply, deeply trusted her advice and deeply respected her advice. And so, I don't, I couldn't tell you if she was nervous on the other side of this conversation. I think, also, like, it was kind of multiple smaller conversations that got to, I guess, the big one, so it wasn't, by the time, like, the hard truth was, It wasn't anything really that new, if that makes sense. Um, but I think trusted relationship is absolutely required going into hard conversations. Yeah. Um, especially for people like me who are a little bit of people in general. Um, sometimes. Where, yeah, because, because basically the years leading up, plenty of people I tried to. And I don't know you, I don't know your life, you don't know me, you don't know my life, you don't get to, you don't get to speak into my life, basically. And that isn't the correct response at all. I should not have been that way, but that's, that's kind of where I was in survival mode. Um, so yeah, it all comes down to relationship and trust and respect. Don't you think it should be that way sometimes? Don't you think that sometimes we should say, I don't care what you think about my life because it's not going to let you have it. Absolutely. I just, I, but I also look back and I think in hindsight, it's like, Oh yeah, that was a good person to ignore. And then there's other people that's like, Oh, I probably should have listened. But yes, like always be. And again, this is just where community comes in. Like we need people to tell us if somebody's legit or not, I guess, or, or, or vouch for other people. Um, yeah, we shouldn't just be listening to randos. Tell us how to live our lives of course and I think there's also a balance of sometimes god uses unexpected people to tell us things that we didn't need We didn't know we needed to know. Yeah and that's where Having mentors and counselors to bounce these things off of is so important. But if you're stuck in that hole, you're not going to have that. So what are the qualifiers? If I'm looking for someone that I, that I want to listen to and someone that I don't, what are the qualifiers? Like, what am I looking for? Does it depend on every person? Or is it like, if I'm, you know, hey, this person has consistently shown up and have loved me well and have supported me and they've been there for me and I can see they've said hard, difficult things in the past because you have to, like, I guess you have to get to that point somehow trusting people. Cause there's always going to be a first time someone says something difficult, but for them. Totally. Yeah. And yeah. And I think. I mean, you, you pretty much said it. Like, I guess for, for me, I spending time with them, seeing how they act in groups, seeing how they talk about other people when they're not around. Um, for me, a big one is do they have a relationship with Jesus and how is that effect affecting their day to day decisions? Um, what kind of people do they hang out with consistently? Where do they, how do they spend their time? How do they spend their money? Um, look at, look at their current and or past relationships and. Weigh that with what they say their values are. I mean, really, uh, behavior is a language, so they can talk the talk all the time, but without behavior showing up and proving that to me, I'm like, eh, you're kind of full of it. So, and that takes time. That takes time and just chance of being in certain situations with people and seeing how they act and react and. And all of that, and that takes time to build that trust, and I guess it almost feels like building evidence that this person is somebody that I want to kind of, I, it's kind of like, I want to be a person like that in X amount of years, or I want to become more like that person. because of how they live their lives. Um, and ultimately that should be Jesus. And that for me, that's so important when the person has a relationship with Jesus and they have, it's clear and obvious that they have a relationship with Jesus. And those are the kinds of people that I want to surround myself with. Yeah. And have them invite or invite them to speak the truth into your life. So it's, it's, it's, it's. A, um, you know, how have you shown up and when you are, when you say you'll be there at six, you're there at six and that's how I know I can trust you kind of a thing. It's not necessarily maybe words that they say, but it's when they say the words and back up the words. Yes. And I think a big thing too, and I think people with mental health struggles will resonate with this, where like there were times where I was. Just stuck in bed because I was dealing with depression and all the, all this stuff. I'm just like, basically couldn't move. And, um, unfortunately Daniella moved away at this point, but I have other friends who would just come and just sit with me. They didn't try to fix anything. They didn't try to, Oh, have you tried this? Have you tried that? Anything like that. They just sat with me and hung out and watched a movie and cried with me. And so. Repeatedly that type of showing up and coming alongside people because there's nothing anyone can do to fix that Necessarily like yes, there's medication and counseling and all that but for the average friend. It is not your job to Necessarily fix anything. It's just you sometimes you got to sit in the pit with people instead of here's the ladder there's there's a it's getting very nuanced now, but I love it You live in the nuance. Um, how, how do you, can I, can I jump in for a second? Yeah. How do you, in those moments, because this, this is a podcast about entering the danger of having difficult conversations. Is there a difficult conversation that needs to happen? Cause I think this is an important, I think this is an important. Um, topic that we're on, this, this idea of mental health, where I think often people want to say, as you were just mentioning, you know, you can't just say snap out of it or just get better. Yeah. Just be happy. But how, like, is there an important difficult conversation that needs to happen in that moment? Or is it, so some, or is it reminding people of the truth? Is that the difficult thing that needs to happen? Like, hey, it's going to be difficult for you because you don't want to hear the truth. in that moment, like your brain isn't listening. Yeah. So you just need to have truth spoken or is it as you were just saying, no, I just sit with me in the moment, like go for a walk or something. I think it's, it's a tough mixture of both. Um, I think yes, absolutely speak truth. Uh, I think, I mean, in that situation specifically just reminding people like this, like this is a disease, like this isn't you. Yeah. This is your brain chemistry being off basically. And it, there definitely does need to come a time where if somebody's like, I was missing work, I was having panic attacks, things like that. Um, and this is where my therapist at the time was like, she had talked about medication a few times and I was like, nope, I'm I don't want to, I don't want to be on medication all the time. Again, finding all the excuses in the book. Um, and I think it just finally got bad enough where it's like, okay, I'll try it. Fine. And thank God I did. So I think there's absolutely a balance between just sitting in the suck with people and just sitting in a puddle with them and being like, Hey, like this doesn't have to be like this. And I don't think I have the answer to when is that appropriate? When. Who is, who has the qualifications to tell people that I, I think it just, it's so different, but depending on the person and what's going on. Um, and I guess, yeah, I, I, it needs to happen. I, I, I don't know the answer for everyone because some people don't need it. So some people don't need to be on medication. Yeah. Some people, it's definitely a part of their life and it's manageable. Other people were like me, where I was missing work and having panic attacks at work and stuff like that. That's where it was good for me to go on medication and it's not forever and that's great. So. I think you've really, I want to go, I mean, you said that we've kind of touched on this a few times, but going back to it, I think a really important piece of having healthy relationships, which is, which is the reason why we want to enter the danger is to have healthy relationships. But it's this idea, and I can speak from experience, sometimes just sitting, as you were saying, sitting in the puddle with someone feels really uncomfortable. Definitely. It feels scary. It's horrible to watch a close friend be that heavy, if that makes sense. And that, feel that hopeless. It sucks to watch loved ones go through that. Yeah. But, but, really, like, I think that's probably, that's, I don't think that's an aspect of entering the danger that talked about on the podcast before. Yeah, sometimes it's not words, it's just sitting. Yeah. Yeah. Because that, because I think that is, I think that's difficult for the person doing the sitting and the person being sat with, because, because I think in that moment you realize, Oh, now tell me if I'm right. Cause I haven't been that person being sat with in a while. I have been, but, but it's, it's, it almost seems, I think like it's encouraging, but also challenging as well. Like, Oh, I'm just sitting here in a puddle. Yeah. I should get up. And it's, it's that reminder that I'm loved, that I don't have to take in a repuddle. Yeah. And, and, and that I'm, I have someone with me alongside me. Yeah. Is that the same for everyone? Or, or is it different? I, oh, I, it's, nothing's ever the same for everyone, but there are times where like, Okay, yes, it's a good reminder that I'm loved and seen and wanted and all that, but then there's the, the other side of that coin is letting yourself be loved and accepting those truths in the moment when sometimes people showing up and being with you makes me, makes, there were times where it made me feel even worse. I'm like, oh, no, I'm just, I'm inconveniencing them and they're, Taking time out of their day. And that's, that's the two in me and the people pleaser in me that I'm constantly working on. Which is the two you're, you're referring to. If you don't, if you're unaware, it's the Enneagram. If you're unaware of that, it's, it's a personality thing. She just Enneagram two, the helper, you know, if I want to inconvenience people, um, to the point where it can become toxic. And I think this is a situation where it definitely would work against me. Yeah. Um, because my friends just wanted to love me. Yeah. And Sometimes I would be like, no, it's it or whatever. And so, and that just comes with healing as well. Just letting, just letting people love you and just actually believing that truth that people like that is, that is where my friend wanted to be that afternoon, that morning or whatever it was. I'm so glad you said that this is because I think one of, one of the things that we forget often, and I've told you this before, um, but it's this idea that, If we, if we need help and we don't let someone help us, we're denying them joy. And how dare we do that? Yeah. Like how, how dare we have the audacity to stop someone else having the joy by helping us when we need help. It's like, how self centered can we be? It comes from pride. Again, it always, it comes back to pride and fear of I'm too proud. To let people be with me in my crappy situation. I can deal with it on my own. And that's not how, that's not, that's not what we're designed to do. Yeah. Yep. Even if it's not, even if it's not, I think. That is, that's a, this, uh, one of the things I love about this topic of entering the danger is there's so many different ways to look at it because for me, it's entering the danger when I ask for help. Because that feels really difficult. It feels uncomfortable. It feels dangerous. Like, if I ask for help, what if they say no? Or what if they say, even worse, what if they say yes, but they don't want to be, like, they resent me for asking for help. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's so many, there's so many different pieces to that, but, but nine, if it's a friend that's worth being a friend. They'll show up with joy because They they want to be there to support you because that's what community does. Absolutely. Yeah, that's what doing life is About with and that again, it comes back to community We're designed to be doing life with people. Yeah, and if somebody says yes And they don't actually want to be there. That's their problem. That's not your problem. Um, and I'm speaking in horror right now. Like, Sierra, if they don't want to be there, that's their problem. They're the ones who said yes. Anyway, um, but yes, well, there's, and when we're talking about entering the danger, it's not, I mean, I'm not a CEO or a business owner. So like, I don't, I can't really approach this topic from a professional. I mean, I can, but. For me, when I think about this topic, it's more in my personal, outside of work relationships. Which it is. Which it is, yeah. And my experience is just people sitting in the puddle with me. Yeah. Or not sitting in the puddle with me. Yeah. I had to learn pretty quick. And over and over and over again, who are the people? that want to just come in and fix everything and not want to sit in the puddle and that is a painful journey of figuring out who are the people that, and it's not, and like the people who are not sitting in the puddle with you, they're not bad people. It probably means they're not mentally healthy enough to do that with you at this time. They are not out of place in their life right now where they can support you well, and as painful as that is, Like, you have to forgive that. You have to let them Yeah, be in that place in life because I didn't, I was that person for so long. It also probably depends Like on which friend is sitting in the puddle. It's just, it's so dynamic So that's another thing too, like as painful as it is to learn like that's, that's really painful and It's reality. Not everyone can be a safe, um, mentally, emotionally strong, in the right way person to sit with you. Yeah. How, how much of, of that is due to the factor of time? So, so recently, um, we watched the movie, what was it called? Um, was it Our Friend? Oh yeah. Which by the way, Oh my gosh, we were sobbing. It was such a good movie, but so sad. So it's based on the story of this lady who gets cancer and her husband and her best friend look after her and they just watch as all of their friends leave. Yeah. Um, just over time they're there to support them and then just one by one they just start leaving. And I'm reminded too of the war in Ukraine and how it was the front of everyone's mind for so long and it's still going on. It's still going on and we barely hear about it now. Yeah, just not many people talk about it. So this idea of how, how much does time affects. Is that really where quote unquote real friends are separated from maybe less real friends? Is it that time, like if you're loyal over time, or is it something entirely different? I think it's a, I think it's kind of a mixture of both where, I mean, as humans, we're, we are very finite and we, We're not, I don't think we're designed to, well, gosh, I mean, if you think of, we're going to come back to your question and don't let me forget it, but I think about people who work in the emergency room or the ICU, who are, or, or policemen or firemen, or murder investigators, they're constantly in. environment of heaviness and evil and seeing really terrible things. They, if in my opinion, and from what I've heard from people who are in those industries, if they don't have healthy outlets and healthy support outside of their work, it's not good. They, they struggle with all kinds of the mental health issues, anger, probably PTSD. Like, I don't, like, our bodies are not designed to go through that kind of trauma constantly, all the time, year after year, and then be like, I'm fine. So, coming back to the friend thing, it's not easy to sit with somebody in a puddle day after day, week after week, month after month, for however long they're sick. Um, because that's what it is, they're sick, um, and so I see it more as if you're going to be a good friend, you need to make sure you are also supported and have healthy outlets and healthy mentors and healthy life so that, because if, if your friend's situation becomes your whole thing, you're going down with them. Yeah. And that's also codependency. Yep. Um, so that's vital as well. And I think this applies to any relationship. Like, I'm, like, we're getting married soon. I'm not going to be a good wife if I don't have friends. Right. And things to do outside of the house. Right. Same with you. Yep. Um, that's, and that, that's what I mean about living in community. Like, one person or very, a handful of very, Close people cannot fulfill all your needs. Like, you need, it takes a village. So, yes. Consistently showing up is super important. And, in order for you to consistently show up, you have to make sure that you're healthy. And if you need to say no to showing up a couple times, So that you can continue to show up later. That needs to be okay as well. Does that answer? I know it got really complex, but it sounded like a simple question. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yes, I think it went a different direction, which is totally fine. Um, but I, I do think you, you hit on some really important things that, you know, I think sometimes this idea of entering the danger is not, it's not as simple as just having a difficult conversation. Sometimes it's as sometimes it's much more complex and it's, man, I'm entering a bit. Because really this, this idea of, of entering the danger, it's, it's, it's based in, it's foundation, I think, in is having difficult conversations. I think it can expand to being in difficult situations and difficult circumstances and how do we approach those? And I think always we need healthy relationships, always we need empathy. Um, because I'm thinking, my, my mind was thinking as well in that, okay, so if I have to have, Like I was wondering if the, if the frustration is there long term because it's, it's different, right? If I, if I have to have a corrective conversation with Lucy every day for a week, at the end of the week, I'm going to be incredibly frustrated if you aren't sure, sorry, Lucy's my daughter, she's my six year old, um, I'm going to be a lot more frustrated at the, the, the time, the length of time, um, which is why I brought up that the time span of, Hey, what happens if we're sitting with people in this really crappy situation for a long period of time. Is, is, is that part of it? Is it a frustration? Is it that we, that we don't like to be in those situations long time? Um, I don't know that I have a good answer to that. Because I think it's slightly different than, than someone who's, who's not changing their behaviors. I think it's a different I think, I think that what we need is coming from a different place. Yeah, yeah, like it's a, someone, like in Lucy's, in the example with Lucy, she's choosing to make these decisions versus someone who's sick. Like let's, if we, we can even describe it as let's take out the mental health because you can't see, like yes you can kind of see the sickness, but like somebody who's in the hospital, in a hospital bed for months on end, that's hard to see your loved one or friend. Be uncomfortable, bored, hurting, on medication, all those things. And again, it comes, like, you can't, yes, you need to show up and be present and then go work out. Yeah. And bring them back some food or something like that. Like if you throughout, so back to the analogy of Lucy, she's making this decision seven days a week, by the end of the week, You're frustrated and you have other things going on every day that kind of gets your mind off of it. Yes. The frustration is still there, but it's not all encompassing. Yep. I think it's, I think the hurt and the frustration of sitting with somebody in the puddle for long periods of time. Yes. It's always going to be there. And that means you love them. That means you care if you were indifferent to it, then there's a problem. Yeah. Um, yep. That's, I think that, I think, yeah, that's used when it's all encompassing. That's a, I think that's really. I think that's really important you just said that we have to get out and then this by the way I think is applied to everything if If, if it's a friend in hospital, if it's a situation at work where you can't get along with someone, if it's, if that becomes all encompassing, that's when it becomes really unhealthy for being able to get out from that, get perspective from it, see, see other, other aspects of our lives and our relationships. Yes. Um, yeah. And I think too, I mean, I might, I have this now image of someone in the hospital. When you leave to go take care of yourself, tap, tap out with somebody new. Yeah. This is where community comes in. There needs to be, multiple people investing in this person's life, sitting in the puddle with them, because if you're doing it all on your own, it's not going to go well for you or the person who's sick. Yeah. Um, because you can't do it all on your own. We're almost out of time. I want to use something you said way at the start. I've been wanting to come back with. It's when, when you were in the Navy, And your friend said, I don't think you'll get out of this. How do we approach, like when it's sometimes people love to do things that they suck at. Yeah. Or they're just not, it's just, they're not the right person for that. So from your, from that experience, like how do we approach those conversations with, with someone that's a really uncomfortable. So I was in this position, right? When I was little, I really wanted to play in the National Football League. And if you know me, if you see me, you would lo like, you would just lo I'm I'm scrawny, I'm I'm like, I don't have a I'm not very athletic. It's, it's, it's kind of funny, but I didn't, I was just, I was a 16 year old kid. I didn't know any better. Um, so how do we, how do we have those kinds of conversations with people about something that they're so passionate about? Oh gosh. Um, answer to that. Cause honestly my situation, I was not, I was only passionate and I'm putting up air quotes for those who can't see me, which is, um, I'm putting up air quotes because. I wasn't necessarily passionate about the Navy. I was just scared and too prideful to leave them. That was my problem. Yeah, and I My friends saw could see that because I was so miserable and I was not speaking Happily or well about the work I was doing. I couldn't give two crafts about the work I was doing But this is the job. This is what this is what I do And she's like, no, that's not true. Like there's other like there's a whole world out there Yeah, that's not in this little bubble that I had trapped myself in. Yep. Um, but when it comes to less Less severe consequences, I guess I should say, like, it's hard to compare like being in the military versus like you want to be an actor, but you're terrible. Yeah. Um. Is that a personal attack on me? What's going on here? No, I have, I have, I'll tell you later. I, I am a terrible actor, by the way, this is what. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I'm not, no, I'm not good. Have you seen me try to act before? It's not good. You don't want to see me act. Okay, that's good. Um. That's tough. I think, I mean that, that's the job of casting directors. If we're taking, I don't know, I guess identify, is it your responsibility to tell them, hey, this is not, this isn't, this can be a passion of yours, but you're not going to make money doing it. Yeah. Like, is that your job? Is, maybe if they ask you, then be honest. Yeah. But a lot of times I feel like it's not our job. Unless I'm someone's boss, And even, let's say I was somebody's boss, and they're really passionate about XYZ, but they're not good at XYZ, they're really good at ABC, but they're kind of meh. Yeah. I would still let them do a little bit of XYZ. Yeah. And, give them more ABC. Yeah. And, and, and then like, positive Affirmations like you did such a good job on this and I don't know. I feel like I'm just making up scenarios. I honestly don't know. So, so it's, I think you said two things, right? So, so one is first ask the question, is it my responsibility? I think that's, that's important. And like, how do we know, like, at what point does it become our responsibility? You know, is it with, is it with my kid? Like, hey, it's my job to tell her she sucks at things, because that seems kind of like I'm crushing the dreams. Like, do I let her kind of, how, I guess, how much do we let them kind of explore it and figure it out? And how much do we say, yeah, this isn't realistic? I think, and now I'm, I'm glad you brought up Lucy, because now I'm thinking back to my childhood where I really struggled with math and, Things like that. College, taking chemistry. I was literally crying all the time because it was so hard. I am not naturally good at things like that. Yeah. Which is funny because I have a degree in environmental science now. But the reason I got through college and graduated with honors is because I had to work harder than, I kid you not, everyone else in the class. Yeah. As far as I know. I was in tutoring and office hours way more than actual class and lab. And so if somebody's really passionate about something, but they're not naturally good at it, to me, I'm like, you just have to, you just have to be honest with them that you will have to work harder. Yep. Then everyone else, if you want to do this. And that is the, that is the hard truth. And they don't want to hear that of course. And, and tell them like, it's going to be just, and so in my situation, I was so discouraged. Cause I started college at 23. I think I was in my first chemistry class ever. Thank you, Arizona public school system. First chemistry class ever sitting next to an 18 year old who was like, Oh yeah, I learned all this last year in AP chem. And I was like, failing every quiz after studying for hours and hours and hours. Like I was really struggling and that was so discouraging. Yeah. And there were a couple people who was like, maybe you should change your major. Yeah. Maybe you shouldn't do this. And I was like, you know what? No, I have the resources in front of me to do well. It is just going to take every spare minute of every spare waking minute, basically. Yeah. For a couple years, I was studying chemistry. I'm so glad it's over. And the hard, I think, the entering the danger in this specific scenario, or maybe it's sports or whatever, I think you could have been a football player. If you had had the resources and the time to dedicate. Could have been Rudy. Yes. You've seen it. It's been a very long time, but I think I get the reference. If you haven't seen the movie Rudy, by the way, You gotta see it. Yes. It's a great movie. And I remember, he had to work harder than everybody else on that field, including the coach. Yep. And that, I, I really think for the most, and, and, and he went as far as he did. He wasn't the best in the league, but he, he did his absolute best. And now I'm getting back into like, everyone gets a trophy, but no, like. You if you want to do something that you're not naturally good at you will just have to work harder than everyone around yeah, and that's going to be isolating and Exhausting and at times demoralizing but if that's what you're really passionate about then do it Okay, so i'm i'm say okay like that because I need to cut us off because we're we're it's long time. We're going a long time so Um, we're going to go to lightning round. All right, you good. Yep. You ready? I think so Are your questions like lightning? I don't know what that was. Chao! There we go. Whitney McQueen. Yeah. Okay, your favorite leadership quote? Um, it's not really a lead I guess it could be a leadership quote, but, um, it's by Wendell Berry. It's a segment from what is Invest in the Millennium by Safoyas. Yep. Uh, what is one underrated skill in leadership? Humility. Your favorite author? Paul the Apostle. Fair. The most frustrating excuse someone can make for not entering the danger? I don't want it to go badly. Yep. Your favorite question to ask other people? What was the high and low of your week? So deep. I've gotten some good answers from that though. Yeah, it's, yep. And it leads to other deeper questions. What's something that you'd, yeah, it's fine. It's fine. It's sometimes you get really good, depends on the person. It depends on the person. And that, well, okay, I guess I should say, this isn't a question, but when I say, Hey, how are you? And I say, whatever. I'm like, that wasn't very convincing. And that usually gets me. Yeah. So that's not really a question. What's something that you do to make sure you're always learning? And I asked this question next on purpose because so many people say podcasts. What's your favorite podcast? I'm surprised that you said that. Uh, what's a book that you keep rereading? Sunday school answer for y'all out there. Uh, what's a quality you see in others that makes you excited to get to know them? Um, vulnerability, like just being real. I really appreciate that. Yeah. But in a way that I think, you know, being real, but not in a way to get attention, you know, like just being real because that's what it is. I think there's some people, especially on the younger side of the crowd, where just trying to get attention. Anyway. Or in the more insecure, you were just telling me about a story, um, about you ever heard a conversation about a lady who's saying she was having a party. She said, I'm inviting politicians and doctors and I'm making Four different types of sangria. And I'm like, okay, cool. That's insecurity. That's like, I need you validation. Yeah. And we were all just like, okay. Um, your favorite way to build trust with other people, deep conversations over a glass of wine or a beer. How does gratitude impact your life? It is. It's I, I want it. I try to live with it being constantly on my mind. Just how ridiculously generous God's been. Even looking back into when I was. In the puddle. Yep. Um, and the people he's sent my way. I'm just, I think I'm constantly aware that my life could have gone very, very differently. Yep. Than where I'm at now. In, in multiple different ways. So, just being thankful for where I'm at now. Yep. I'm just leaning into it. How do you stay sharp at work? Asking questions. I'm, for those who don't know, I, I'm only four months into my new job and half the time I feel like I'm faking it until I make it. And so just asking lots of questions and Marcus, are you listening? That's not true. She knows everything. I know what I'm doing. I might send this to my mom. Uh, what do you do to rest? I sleep a lot. Yep. Um, and now that I'm, I'm getting back into lifting weights and even though that's not physically resting, it helps my brain rest I think. A lot of people say walk. Like I think that's the great thing about rest is that it, I think it's what you find restful. It can be so different. Um, I'm going to ask two more questions. You only ask one, but I have a bonus question just for you. Uh, so second to last question, which is usually last is white chocolate, really chocolate. Well, I've learned through your podcast that apparently not with the process of making chocolate, it is not real chocolate. I'll still eat it. I guess I'll eat it. Cause you won't, I won't waste it. That's for sure. But I probably wouldn't mind. Yeah. I will say if it's, if it's in front of me, it's the only kind of chocolate that I'll probably eat it because Yeah. But it's not real chocolate. Yeah. Okay, last question. Why is cricket the greatest sport? Oh, wow. I mean, it is, okay, I mean, it is, it isn't, I don't know if I would call anything the greatest sport, and, and, Oh, so you've failed the question then. Cricket is way more impressive than I ever, I will say that. Yeah. Now that I'm learning it more, and I still don't know all the rules, and I'm still, Being able to know what's going on, but between the athleticism and having to keep track of what's going on at all times and them fielding without gloves and like, ouch, I played softball for a decade and I, I've watched these guys field a ball. That's. Practically a pool cue and like worried about breaking fingers and stuff and I think when it comes to test cricket just the multiple days of grueling in the sun yeah playing this game and then at that point it becomes more of a mental game it's just impressive yeah and I would say definitely an underrated sport but I see why 2020 cricket is more popular because yeah us Us humans like our quick, uh, action, instant gratification, but it is, it is a very impressive game. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. There you go. The, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, commandeering the unpaid advertisement for this episode for cricket. So if you, I've been converted. Yeah. Yeah. Sierra, thanks for being willing to come and stand next to me for the, for this episode. I loved it. Uh, anything you want to shout out, any, anything or anyone that you want to shout out? Gosh. Environmentalism? Oh yeah. I mean, I guess. Oh gosh. Yes. Uh, we only have one planet. Take care of it. Um, that's, that's, yeah, I mean it's true. Um, I don't think I have any product plugs or anything. That's fine. Get sleep. Eight hours of sleep. And lift weights. And read your Bible. If you don't want to lift weights, exercise in some form or fashion. Do push ups. That's what I do. I do push ups. You should do some after this. Okay. Um, great. If you haven't turned this off by now, thanks for listening. If people want to get a hold of you. Oh gosh, email, email Zach if you want to get a hold of me. Okay, email me. As always, I'll put my email and my phone number at the end. Awesome. Thank you again, Heaps. Appreciate it. We will catch you all on the next episode. I will. Sierra won't be here. I really hope that you guys enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. I had so much fun. I really enjoyed it. I think there's some awesome stuff in there as well. I really liked kind of looking at entering the danger also from a mental health perspective. That's not something I've done before and I really enjoyed it. Uh, and I might try to do that more again in the future. I think, uh, just one housekeeping note, as I said, getting married in just about a month. So. There won't be a podcast episode next month. I will be on my honeymoon and very busy wedding planning until then. So, next episode will be at the end of September. The last Wednesday of September. So, I will talk to you guys then. Thank you all so much for joining me this month on the Enter the Danger podcast. I really appreciate you being here with me and I'm grateful for your time. If you enjoyed the podcast, I'd also appreciate it if you left a review or rated it wherever you consume your podcasts, but more than that, I'd really appreciate it if you shared the podcast with someone else. If you have any advice to me, I'd love to hear from you. You can email me at Zach, that's Z A C at zwillcoxconsulting. com. That's also my website zwillcoxconsulting. com or you could call me at 559 387 6436. I also take texts if you don't like to call. Or if you just want to talk about entering the danger as well and what that means, how to implement that in a better way in your own life, please let me know. I'd love to connect and chat. I love meeting new people. I love talking about this topic of entering the danger. Thank you friends for being here again. Until next time, let's remember to choose kindness, empathy, and curiosity.