Ryan Batchelor - Founder of Crux Leaders

This month I'm joined my Ryan Batchelor, Navy veteran and founder of Crux leaders.

Here are the links from Ryan's episode:

Rich Diviney: https://www.thriftbooks.com/a/rich-diviney/4316940/

John Maxwell: https://www.thriftbooks.com/a/john-c-maxwell/197470/

Patrick Lencioni: https://www.thriftbooks.com/a/patrick-lencioni/198304/

Jocko Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jocko-podcast/id1070322219

Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill: https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/think-and-grow-rich_napoleon-hill_august-gold/246721/?resultid=450ab7d3-9a06-4662-9c0b-cfcc5f97391a#edition=2396480&idiq=3850327

Crux Leaders website: https://www.cruxleaders.org/

Ryan's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-batchelor-stl/

Transcript

0:12

Hello, friends, my name is Zach, and welcome to the Enter the Danger Podcast, where we have conversations to help us grow in our skill, to enter into difficult conversations with kindness, empathy, and curiosity, so that we can be more effective in our jobs and have deeper and more meaningful relationships. My guest this month is Ryan Bachelor. Ryan is the founder of Crux Leaders, a leadership consulting company working to build a next generation of leaders. He brings decades of military experience. Patrick Lynch, his working genius, and John Maxwell certifications to meet any organizations unique needs. He's married with nine kids and lives in the St. Louis area. He really enjoys reading and mountain climbing. All right, let's jump into it. Hi Ryan. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to have you here. Thank you very much, Zach. I'm, uh, glad to be a guest on the podcast today. I, I, I, I've got, this is gonna be a great treat for the listeners. Hey, Ryan. First question, we're gonna jump straight in here. First question, what's one event that affects how you enter the danger with others? I've been thinking about this one a little bit, Zach, and, and my answer might be a little off track here, but what I'm gonna say is, uh, the attitude of the person that I intend to enter the danger with, right? Like that's gonna be the event. Um, if the person seems, uh, like they are in a. An attitude of not being open to, to hearing anything, I have to say, if I have history with that individual, that that has generally put me on the defensive, then I'm probably gonna be in a position where it's gonna be more difficult for me to enter the danger with them. In contrast, if they've got a, a, you know, a good attitude, I have a history of of them being open and transparent with me, and I. They have, you know, received that sort of conversation in the past, and I'm gonna be much more open to entering the danger and having what I'll just call might be a difficult conversation with them. Yeah. So that, that might not be exactly what you're getting at in the question, but that's kind of what I think about. Okay, great. Um, what's a struggle or a weakness that you have when it comes to entering the danger? Well, it's hard to pick just one, but so, so I'm, I'm generally a non-confrontational person. Um, and I am, I kind of grew up as a peacemaker and I've always been a peacemaker and I always try to find the middle ground. And so sometimes that means that I will try to avoid entering the danger because I mistakenly think. That not entering the danger will allow us to keep the peace. Yeah. Now in reality that, that's a false flag, right? Yeah. That, that's not actually true. But that's what we think oftentimes is that, well, if, if I just don't have this conversation, then I won't make people upset, and that'll just keep the peace. But that's the same thing as ignoring the elephant in the room. So, uh, so I have to look at it as. The best way to keep the peace is to make sure we deal with this particular issue and find the best way to deal with that issue so that we can have better peace moving forward. That's how I have to look at it, but I have to be very intentional about that because my first reaction is to be non-confrontational and keep the peace and not rock the boat. Yeah. Well, you've already, you've already I think, kind of answered this next question, which is how do you have the necessary conversations despite that? But, but are you willing to maybe give a little more detail and color to what you were just saying? Sure. So what I have to do is, is I really have to. Plan out that conversation be because I, I tend to be non-confrontational. I'm, I'm not going to step into that conversation unless I have a plan. So I need to plan out that conversation very well. I need to plan out where we're gonna have the conversation, what time we're gonna have the conversation, and then my agenda for how I'm gonna go about that conversation. Because the, my, my. Visceral reaction is to not have it and to try to avoid it. And so I have to have a plan to do that. And sometimes it's gonna take me a little while to come up with that plan. And I know there's, there's other people in, in my life that probably want me to move a little bit faster in developing that plan. Uh, but for me it's gonna take a little bit of time, um, and, and means that. The resolution of, of that issue is probably gonna take a little longer than some people might like. Yeah. But if, but if I have a plan, that's really the only way that, that I'm going to be able to, to step into the danger.'cause otherwise I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna run away from it. Yeah. Yeah. How do you, so, because I, I, um, when I have to have difficult conversations, try to think out a plan as well and try to create an agenda. But what often happens, and, and I'm curious how you approach this, is what happens if the other person isn't sticking to your agenda? How do you still approach that? Because I found personally that I can get kind of thrown off when that happens, and then I lose all semblance of control that I might have had. How do you approach it when that happens? I, I, I totally understand that sentiment, and I'm not very good at being off the cuff myself. Um, I, I have to usually have some time to plan, so when, when the agenda does start to go awry, uh, I have to take a deep breath and, uh, pause a little bit. And then I try to remind myself that I need to do more listening than talking in that situation. Yeah. And when you do that, uh, a lot of times you can find the message between the lines. And, and what I mean by that is, is a lot of times people are, are talking, but they're not actually saying what they really mean. The, the meaning is really behind the words or the meaning is coming through in the facial expressions. But if I'm only thinking about my next agenda point or the next thing that I want to say, I'm going to miss those things. Yeah, so when it starts to go awry, I have to take a deep breath. I have to refocus on listening, and then I have to really make sure that I am understanding the message. They're communicating and at, at the base level, I'm, I'm not a very intuitive person, and so I really have to work at that and I really have to focus on making sure I do that. Um, there's, there's other people in my life that are much more intuitive and I go, how do you do that? Yeah. Because it is just not natural for me. Yeah. So does, does this, um, this is maybe a two part question, Ryan. Does that, um, lack of natural intuition and your desire to have an agenda going into these, uh, conversations, can that get us into trouble if we're trying?'cause I, you were just talking about listening. If, if we're focusing too much on a script and not on listening, how can that get us into trouble? What are the warning signs that we need to be looking for? Yeah, it can definitely get us into trouble. Um, so I think body language is, is a huge clue in this situation. If, if, if we think we're headed down a path and the the body language of the other person is starting to show us that we're not, then it either means one of two things. It either means we didn't understand the issue to start with. Which is certainly a possibility, or it means what we're saying is hitting too close to home. Mm-hmm. And, and, and that is evoking a response from them, which they probably don't like to hear that because it's hitting a little too close to home. And so, yeah, now you have kind of a challenge before you as to figuring out which one of those it is and, and what you do with that. So if you misunderstood the issue, then you kinda have to reset the whole conversation. And, and for me at least, I would need to, to have that conversation later once I get some better clarity on what the issue is. Mm. Conversely, if it's that. I have hit the mark and, and they're just not having a good response to that because it, it hit a little too close to home. Um, then, you know, that is probably when I move a little bit into a coaching mode of, you know, hey, understand, you know, this may be hard to hear. It may be difficult to, um. Have a friend say something like that to you, but this is how we can move forward with this. And, and my goal is that we're in a better place at the end of this conversation. And after you have heard what I have to say. So you, you kind of have to figure out which one of those it's gonna be and then, and then move Yeah. In the appropriate direction after that. Yeah. How do we pause conversations like this? In a healthy way, for instance, if you need to take a step back to get clarity, um, how do you pause that and how do you assure them that, that it will still, because I'm, I'm very much the opposite. When we, when we have these conversations, I wanna see it through to the end. I'm like, let's, let's find resolution here. Let's have this conversation. I don't care if it's messy. I don't care if it's difficult. Difficult conversations are messy. So I'm like, let's just do it. Come on, let's figure it out. But I also know that there are people very much like you that need that time and space, so, so I guess this, this question in how do we pause it is how do we communicate our desire to the other person? And part two of this, which I can ask again later, is how do you determine which need trumps in the moment? Is it the person who wants to get through to the end, or is it the person that needs that break? Yeah, great questions. So, to the, to the first part, uh, if, if I have misunderstood the issue, that's the point where I just have to be completely open and transparent and I just say, I. Hey, look, what I've discovered so far out of this conversation is that I didn't really have a good understanding of this issue. I thought it was this, and I had a plan to address that, but I now realize from the information that you've given me through this conversation that that's not really the issue at all. And so I need some time to go. Process and be prepared to talk about that other issue. I don't want you to feel like that I'm just dropping the issue. Uh, but I, I'm not prepared to have that conversation right now. Yeah. But I, I would like to discuss when we can have a follow up conversation about that so that we can put this fully to bed. Um,'cause if I try to, if I try to. To wing it or I try to push through to the end like you kind of talked about. Um, yeah, it, you know, yeah. It would be nice to be able to check something off the box and say, I got that done. But, uh, from my perspective, it's probably not going to go well because I need that, that time to think through all the possible options and, and have a, a plan ready to discuss. So, um, yeah. You're talking about which one trumps the other? That's a really hard question.'cause it really comes down to personality differences, right? Yeah. And yep. And it, and you don't want to leave that conversation with the impression that I'm more important than you. Yeah. Right? Like, that's not how we want to leave that conversation. Um, so if the other person wants to finish and, and you don't, then you kind of have to figure out, maybe you take. What, what we call sometimes in, in my world, the strategic pause. Um, and so maybe it's not, we come back and have the conversation four days from now. Maybe it's like, Hey, let's, let's take 10 minutes, get a drink of water, uh, you know, uh, uh, use the restroom and then, and kind of clear my head a little bit. Uh, take a deep breath and then, and then we can, we can work on trying to finish the conversation. Yeah. How much it, when we're in those times, how much does the connection and the relationship we have with the matter? As an example, I think one of the most destructive pieces of advice I received as a young person heading towards marriage was don't go to bed mad. Like, don't go to sleep angry with each other. Um. Sometimes what you need to do is we're both tired. We're not in the best control of our emotions. I love you. Let's go to sleep. And in the morning when we have more energy and we're more focused and we can be our best selves, let's keep this going. But you can't, it's hard to say something like that with, without a strong connection and relationship. So, so I guess how much does that connection, as I said, and that relationship impact. How you approach those pauses and when you can approach them, um, and, and, yeah. Yeah. I think the relationship, uh, is. Almost everything in that situation. Okay. Right. So, um, and, and I've had situations, um, in my career where, you know, I, I knew people really well and so we were able to, uh, work through the situation and bring it to finality without really any damage to the relationship whatsoever. The problems that I've typically encountered is wind. I don't know the people as well. I don't have as much of a connection with them, and there could be multiple reasons for that. Um, you know, maybe they're new to my team and I just haven't yet had a chance to get to know them, but I. Something occurred and we have to have a conversation about what that something is. Um, and so they could be new to my team. It could be somebody that I just haven't really connected with yet. You know, when I moved to St. Louis, I found out everybody I. St. Louis is a Cardinals fan, so it doesn't matter whether you like baseball in St. Louis or not, you best learn to like Yeah. Baseball, or at least, at least be aware of whether yeah. The Cardinals won or lost the day before. Yeah, because everybody's a baseball fan. Yeah. And so, uh, in this city, so. You have to find connection points. Uh, yeah. Even if you don't know the person that well, that, that can help your relationship in that, in that situation. But, uh, if you have a little relationship and, and little connection, then it's gonna be much harder. When it comes to that, that friction point of, like you talked about earlier, do we try to push through to finish this conversation out or, or do we save this for another day? Yeah. Yeah. Which, which I, I, and I'm not saying this because I want to talk about politics because I don't, but um, I think if, if I'm hearing you too, it's, it's, it can be very difficult in, in, I'm gonna use politics as the example to have conversations because often we're so focused on the things that separate us instead of the things that connect us. Um. Am I hearing you right? Am I on the right track here? That, that we, it's so much more difficult to have healthy conversation in this example again, in politics because we don't have that connection.'cause we're so focused on how the, how we're different from the other person. I think you're definitely hitting the nail on the head there. Um,'cause there's no two people that are exactly alike and so it's always easier to find stuff that we differ on. But the point to remember is that, is that at some level. There has to be something that we agree on, right? Maybe it's not politics. Maybe we are from different sides of the aisle when it comes to politics. Maybe it's not religion. That one's probably not one you wanna step into either, right? Right. But, but may, but maybe we did both grow up in Pittsburgh and we, and we love the Steelers, right? Yeah. Or, or maybe, uh, you know, we love the beach or the mountains. Um, yeah. And, and we have, we can find that. As a connection point, uh, yeah, it might take a little bit of time to search that out, but yeah, if you are more focused on finding the commonality that is there somewhere than you are yeah. On, on using those, those differences, uh, to, to harm the relationship, then you're gonna be in a much better spot if you try to find the, the common ground. Yeah. How do we, so going back to what we were talking about just a couple minutes ago, how do we approach conversations if, if, you know, you are someone who needs time to prepare? Uh, but certainly, um, and I don't know if you were in ever in combat in your time in the Navy, but sometimes there aren't situations in which you can wait. You have to address it. Right now because maybe there's lives at stake or maybe there's an upset customer at the front door, or maybe we were supposed to get a delivery yesterday and it's still not here, and that has implications on our production and operations. How can we, when, when that doesn't happen, and I know, you know, for instance, in your case, you're not gonna be as good in that moment, we still have to push through. How can we approach that conversation? I. So this is where training and a and a playbook helps out a lot. Yeah. Right. So if, if you train for various scenarios, then you can, uh. Take that training that you've had and, and you can adapt it slightly for the actual situation that you're in. So, um, you know, if you've, if you've practiced the football play 15 times in a game, it might not go exactly like it's supposed to, but if it's close enough to those 15 times that you practiced it, then the place probably still going to work out. Um, yeah. So, you know. Of course in the military we do lots of training so that, you know, it's as close as possible to, uh, an actual scenario so that when we do get into the, that actual scenario, it's more automatic than you might think in, in business. I think, uh. A playbook is the best way to go there. So you lay out those different scenarios that could happen, right? Uh, a, a customer is upset because their, their shipment, you know, was a week late when we said it was going to be here last week and it didn't get here till this week. How do we deal with that? And you, you have that out in a playbook. Now granted that might not be the exact scenario that happens, but it's probably. There's probably gonna be a scenario that comes up that's close enough that you can still use that. Yeah. Playbook. And so you gotta get your team together and you gotta say, okay, if this happens, what's our, what's our playbook? If this happens? What's our playbook? Yeah. If this happens, what's our playbook? And while you're not going to anticipate every scenario, hopefully you can grab that one that's close enough and you can use that one. And then you don't need the that time to go plan. Now if you get something that's completely off the wall and, and completely rattles everybody's cage, then you know, you might have to say, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna need a minute, we're gonna have to have a meeting to figure this one out. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm hearing you say, Ryan, is essentially we want to pre decide, you know, if, if the shipment example that you use, right? If a customer is, has their shipment light, we are going to respond. First of all with empathy. Second of all, with problem solving or, or something. Um, am I hearing you right? Are we on track here? Yes, definitely. Um, and like I said, while, while you're not gonna be able to anticipate absolutely everything that can go wrong in, in your business or on your team or, or in your company, uh, just the. The act of going through the critical thinking of this could happen, this could happen, this could happen, this could happen. And then talking with your team about, well, this is what we could do in this situation. This is what we could do, this is what we could do, and this is what we could do. Those things will help prepare everybody for the actual situation that comes along. Yeah. Um, so, uh, that's, that's really the only way that that. I know to do your best to prepare for what's going to happen. Yeah. And then, yeah, you know, the chips will fall where they may after that, what does that look like for me as a dad? How do I build that playbook for myself so I know when my daughter isn't listening? Or is it a similar, um, is it a similar thing that I have to do that something completely different? My wife and I had a lot of conversations I think when the, when the kids were like, you know, birthed to, to 10 years, um, of, you know, how are we gonna deal with this? How are we gonna do deal with this? And I. The, the goal for us was that we were gonna be consistent between the two parents. We didn't want to provide the opportunity for someone to play mom off of dad. Right. Yeah. We didn't want the scenario where someone goes, well, dad said this. Yeah, mom. Right. Or the other way around. Yeah. And so we were usually. Pretty unified ahead of time on how we would deal with specific situations. Um, once again, you can't anticipate everything that happens. And so outside of that, um, you kind of have your, you, you know, your guiding principles of, Hey, we wanna raise, you know, ethical, uh, moral children who are positively contributing to society, right? Yeah. So, so while we may not have talked about. A fight at the football game. Like if our child gets in a fight at the football game, I can go, okay, well, we want them to be an ethical and moral individual who positively contributes to society. Okay. I know now how I can have the conversation about why we don't have a fist fight at the football game. That's never happened, but, you know, uh, with my kids. But it's, it's just a good example of, of how something can happen like that and, and you can be prepared for that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So going back to the business world, what if, because, you know, being aligned, this idea of being aligned is really important. What if there's a, a significant difference in the alignment between you and the other person that you need to have this difficult conversation with in how you approach it and what you were supposed to do? Do you, do we need to approach those conversations differently? Do we need to meet them halfway? Do they need to, like, how do we, um, come to terms with, with those things when, when there is significant difference in values? So the first way I approach that is I always assume noble intent, and I didn't make that up. That's a concept from the speed of trust. Yeah. Uh, by Mr. Covey. Uh, but he says, he says, assume noble intent and assume that, that everybody has good intentions and that they're out to do the right thing Now. Uh, that, that helps you start that, that conversation. I. If you discover in the course of the conversation that you now have evidence that demonstrates that that person does not have noble intent, um, yeah. Then, then you have to change the, the playbook after that. And yeah. You know, that might be a situation where you end up having to agree to disagree. Um, yeah. But, but. And while most of us don't like to get into that situation where we agree to disagree, the one thing that is required for you to get there is that, is that everybody listens well to the argument that the other person is making. Yeah. And so if you can, if you can do that and you can fully understand their perspective and even to the point where, you know, you can repeat their perspective to them and they say, yeah, that's, that's right. What you're saying is, is accurately my perspective. And if they can do the same for you, then at least you've got everything on the table at that point. Um, yeah. So you know what you're working with. And even if the conversation ends at. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. Yeah. Then at least everybody has a better understanding of both perspectives and that, and that can inform you going forward because then you, you actually have more information now to. Work with that person in the future, you have more information in, in understanding exactly how you lead them or, or manage them or are a team member with them. So, you know, often when we, when we work with teams or organizations, you know, we start with some sort of, uh, assessment, some sort of personality assessment of some kind. And the whole point of that is you get to know people better and you get to understand them a little bit better. Yeah, almost every time I do that, whether it's working genius or whether it's something else, there's some person in the room who has a light bulb go on because they now understand somebody in the room better than they have before, or they understand themselves better than they have before. So yeah, I think you can still find value in that conversation, even if you end it with, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this point. Yeah, I think I, I might be completely off base, but I think it's the, the prayer of St. Francis, isn't it, to seek to be understood before seek to understand before being understood, is that I, I don't know who it's attributed to, but I familiar with the quote, how, how, how much could that change the quality and depth of our. Conversations when we do have to enter the danger if before we try to convince them that we're right, that we try to, I I think you said, uh, express their viewpoint. Is that what you said? Or this is what you think? Yes. So how much could that change? And, and if, if it's a lot, should that be something that we're trying to do in, in all of our conversations? Yeah. So, uh, listening has been one of those things that has probably been a challenge for me over the years, but for, for one of my, uh, personal growth, uh, sessions, um, uh, for, for a number of months, I, I read a lot of material on the concept of listening, and so I. I use a lot of the techniques that, that I read about and tried to get to get better at this. And while I will not claim that I have attained being better at it, um, what I did discover was that if you focus more on, I. Trying to understand what the other person is saying, rather than trying to form what you're going to say in rebuttal, then you will learn a lot more. And so, um, and especially when I went in to a command position within, uh, the military, um, the concept of, of listening became all the more important. Because in a rank structure like the military is generally if the higher ranking person speaks, everybody else stops speaking at that point. Yeah. Because they think, they think that the conversation is over because they think a decision has been made. So yeah, I learned to literally. Put my hand over my mouth so I wouldn't talk, so I could hear all the perspectives in the room. Um, yeah. And then once I made sure that everyone had the opportunity to speak, is usually when I would say something, and it wasn't necessarily that I was making a decision, but once I said something, it would generally, uh. You know, be near the end of the conversation because yeah, people are like, well, okay, he's, he's heard what he needs to hear now and he's got all the information that he needs. And so I think if you go into the conversation, uh, seeking to understand and seeking to make sure that. You have a, a full appreciation and understanding of the other person's perspective, it's gonna put you in a much better spot than if you go in with, you know, your battle plan and just trying to prove that you are right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, Ryan, I really appreciate this conversation. We're starting to head towards the end of our time. Um, I've got a lightning round of questions I'd love to run through with you if you're willing. I'm looking forward to it. Great. Your favorite leadership quote? Okay, so I'm gonna go with Craig Rochelle here. And, uh, and I actually got this, this quote out of High Road Leader, which is a John Maxwell book. Uh, it says, people would rather follow a leader who is always real than one who is always right. Yep. And you know, Craig, Rochelle has a lot of wisdom, but, uh, I'm gonna put that one up there, uh, pretty high. And, and when I first read High Road Leader and I read that quote. I was like, that is very appropriate and I think it lines up with some of what we've been talking about today as well, because these conversations that can be difficult. Conversations where you need to enter the danger with other people are much less about being right than, than they are about being real and making sure that, that you're as authentic as you possibly can be. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What's one underrated skill in leadership? Transparency. You a favorite author? Well, so I'm gonna, John Maxwell and Patrick Lencioni are my two favorites. Like if those guys put a book out, I'm, I'm buying it. Right. Okay. But, uh, my most recent favorite is an individual that I actually went to college with, and he's a retired Navy Seal and his name is Rich Divin. He has two books out, one's called the Attributes and one is called Masters of Uncertainty. And, uh, I recommend those to, to everybody, uh, to pick up, um, because he's, he's definitely the one I've enjoyed a, a lot recently. Okay. I will put links to all three of those authors in the show notes. The most frustrating excuse someone can make for not entering the danger. I'm gonna say, uh, I don't want to, which I'll classify as apathy. Yeah. Your favorite question to ask other people, what's your passion? Because what people do is how they earn money generally. I. Yeah. And it may be their passion, and if it is, I'm super happy for them. Yeah. But, but the fact of the matter is, is that a lot of people, what they do is not their passion. Yeah. And so I want to know what their passion is. Absolutely. What's something you do to make sure you're always learning? So, ever since I read 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth, um, I have a personal growth plan and. I, uh, always plan to execute it daily. Um, and so it's always on my calendar. I have an hour of it, executive time, uh, every day. And then I have 12 things that I accomplish across my executive times throughout the week. So I'm not saying I do 12 things every day, but I might get through the first four. On, on Monday, and then I do, you know, five through eight on Tuesday and then the rest of the week, yeah, I get nine through 12 done. Um, yeah. So that's, that's what I do. Uh, it's very important to me and it's made a huge change in, in the way that I lead and the way that I operate my life since I started doing that. Yeah. I love it. Do you have a favorite podcast? So, um. Jocko Willink. The Jocko podcast is Yeah. A good one. Uh, yeah. They're really long. Yeah. They're so, they're hard to get through. Uh, yeah. You're definitely not gonna get through'em in one sitting. Uh, but, but I, I enjoy that one a lot. Great. A book you keep rereading. Yeah, there's, there's two of'em. I already referenced it once. So 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth by John Maxwell. Uh, yeah, the other one that I reread a lot. Is Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Yep. And every time I have that book out, my kids are like, are you trying to get Rich Dad? And I'm like, I, I know that the title says Think and Grow Rich, but it's really a mindset book. I was like, it's really not about how to make money. It's a mindset book. Yeah. So yeah, those are the two that I reread, uh, regularly. Great. I'll put links to those as well. What's a quality you see in others that makes you excited to get to know them? Let's see. Um, I'm just, I'm gonna go with, um, a, a good disposition, so like Yeah. Happiness, you know? Yeah. Um. That's that. If, if I, if I see that, then I know that that's someone I'm gonna want to spend a little bit more time with and find out. Yeah. What is it that's making them, making them happy? Making them pleased. Yeah. Yeah. Your favorite way to build trust with other people. Um, I think finding a, uh, a common hobby. Yeah. It, it could be taking a walk in the neighborhood. It could be shooting baskets. Um, it could be, you know, uh, talking about a, an article or a book that you're reading, like what, whatever it is. Like find, find something common between you and then, and then exploit that to, to get to know each other better. Yep. How does gratitude impact your life? Gratitude is, is huge. And I find gratitude to be especially helpful on those days when maybe it seems like things are not going my way or things are a little more difficult today. Uh, yeah, that's, that's when I have to remind myself. Um, okay. Well, the sun's shining. The car's running. Um, yeah. You know, I've got, I'm, I'm, I've got kids giving me a hug when I come in the door. Uh, and, you know, so all these other things are, are gonna get taken care of and they're gonna go away and they're going to get solved. And so, uh, gratitude helps me out a lot. Uh, uh, when, when I'm facing particular difficulty. Yeah. How do you stay sharp at work? I. So, uh, I generally work out in the morning and that kind of sets my day. Yeah, so I'm an early riser. I'm the only one in my house that's an early riser. Um, so, but, but if I, if I need to get something done in the morning, like writing, I'll do that and then I'll go for a workout and then my day is, I'm ready to go at that point. Yeah. So that's, that's kind of how I start my day and that starts me off on the best foot. If, if, you know, if I got in late the night before and, and I get up a little later than normal and I don't get my workout in. Um, I just feel sluggish the rest of the day. Yeah, yeah, totally. Uh, what do you do to rest? Well, this is gonna sound, uh, counter to the question, um, but, uh, but I, I like a good hike in the woods. Yep. Yeah. And, and the further away I can get from civilization the better. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, once a year I go to the mountains of Colorado and, uh, I come back completely exhausted and my wife's like, uh, uh, how is that restful for you? Uh, and I'm like, well, I'm physically exhausted, but mentally I'm completely recharged. Yeah. Um, so when I say I come back exhausted, I come back physically exhausted. My legs are tired, my lungs are tired. Yeah. But my, but my mind is, is in a completely better place than, than it was.'cause it just gets rid of, of all that, that stuff that tends to bog us down and hold us back. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Last question here, Ryan, is white chocolate, really chocolate? I've been waiting for this one, Zach, because you've got, you've got so many white chocolate haters, but white chocolate is definitely chocolate and in my book it's the best, uh, okay. Type of chocolate. So, uh, yeah. Yeah. You've you've got some white chocolate haters and I, we do, yes. Yeah, it's, you're the first person, you, the first person in a long time who said it is definitely, without a doubt. Good to know. Good to know. Ryan. I'm really grateful for this conversation. Thanks so much for joining me. Before we go, uh, I, I'd love to hear is there anything you're working on that you'd like to share? And if we want to get ahold of you, how can they do that? Sure. So a couple things that, that I'm working on right now. I'm really leaning into, uh, John Maxwell Masterminds this year. And so I have a number of masterminds planned for the rest of the year that I'd love any of your listeners to join me on. Um, so there's details of that on my website. And my website is www dot. Crux Leaders, that's CRUX. Then the word leaders with an s.org, and everybody can go there. They can check out the masterminds, they can sign up for my free monthly newsletter. And I also have a couple books that I'm a co-author in that are for sale on the website, and one of those just released. Last month. It's, uh, connected Leaders Academy leadership and uh, and I have an article in there about personal growth, which is some of what I talked about today. Yeah, that's awesome. I'll put links to all of that, uh, in the show notes for his website, his mastermind, um, his books as well. We'll make sure there's links for that as well. Again, Ryan, thanks so much for joining me. I've loved this conversation. It is been great to hang out with you for a little bit today. Hey. Thanks Zach. It's been a real pleasure. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'll, I'll talk to you soon. Alright, thank you. What an awesome conversation. Thank you Ryan, so much again for joining me this month on the Enter the Danger Podcast. My guest next month is my friend Kelly Rowlands. Kelly is from my homeland of Australia. I'm really excited about interviewing Kelly. That episode will drop at the end of May, last Wednesday of May, so please come back and join me for that episode. Thank you all so much for joining me this month on the Enter The Danger Podcast. I really appreciate you being here with me, and I'm grateful for your time. If you enjoyed the podcast, I'd also appreciate it if you left a review or rate it wherever you consume your podcasts. But more than that, I'd really appreciate it if you shared the podcast with someone else. If you have any advice to me, I'd love to hear from you. You can email me at Zach, that's ZA c@zwilcoxconsulting.com. That's also my website, z wilcox consulting.com, or you could call me at(559) 387-6436. I also take texts if you don't like to call or if you just wanna talk about entering the danger as well and what that means, how to implement that in a better way in your own life. Please let me know. I'd love to connect and chat. I love meeting new people. I love talking about this topic of entering the danger. Thank you friends for being here again. Until next time, let's remember to choose kindness. Empathy and curiosity.