Fractional
Fractional
Kim Rohrer: I am not my work
This week's episode was a fantastic dive into Kim's advice for mid-career fractionals and fractional hopefuls. We talked about the myth of work/life balance, doubling down on your strengths, and Kim's journey into through layoffs, burnout, and starting new things.
Some helpful links from the show:
https://www.peakhrlearning.com
https://icaretoomuch.substack.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimrohrer/
https://www.patchworkportfolio.com
https://twitter.com/kimskitchensink
Our fantastic editor for the show is Caleb Johnson: http://embrin.com
All right, hello and welcome to episode 48 of the Fractional Podcast. I'm your host, Lance Robbins. I'm here with my co-host, Joshua Wold, as always. And today we have an exciting guest, Kim Rohr. We're so glad you're here. Tell us a little bit about yourself. And we've got an agenda lined up to really dive in and ignore as much as possible. But yeah, take it away.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, well, I will take it. Hi, I'm Kim. I am the co-founder and chief creative officer at Peak HR, a learning... program for HR professionals. Specifically, right now, we're running a cohort for mid-career folks. We are brand, brand, brand, brand baby new company. We're like less than six months old. We're running our first program right now. I'm also a fractional HR consultant and a longtime in-house HR people person. I spent about the last 15 years mostly at startups running all things people and culture. Before the most recent round of layoffs at my last company, that pushed me into where I am today. I'm also a former theater person and acapella nerd and a mom of two. And I live in Berkeley, California. And I don't know what else you want to know.
SPEAKER_02:I love
SPEAKER_00:that. That's what I got for you.
SPEAKER_02:That's the first time I've heard the term mid-career. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00:So for this particular cohort, we're focusing on folks who are at that three to 10-year mark. So you're not quite just starting out, but you're also not executive leadership yet. So you might have a title like HR business partner, HR manager, director of people, HR generalist, people and programs partner, anything kind of in that range. One of our speakers said that the HR director is where HR careers go to die. And that is what we are trying to help prevent with this program. It is so common to get stuck at that, like, you've got five or six years, you're not quite ready to be a VP, but you're not a beginner. And there's just like no resources for people at that stage. We all figured it out as we went along. And our goal is to make it easier for the next generation of people leaders to not have to figure so much out by themselves.
SPEAKER_01:So, so a collective resource, but also a goal of helping people move from that, like mid management into senior management and beyond not get stuck in their career.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. We have this program, it's eight weeks long, and we have over 25 speakers who are all experts in their fields. Most of them are CPOs or VP and above HR folks. But we also have senior executives from engineering, product, marketing, sales, coming to talk about how to scale your HR knowledge beyond the HR team. So there's a lot in this program about scaling what you've learned in HR so far out to the rest of the organization and what you can learn from those really powerful cross-functional partnerships. which is really what you need to grow your career once you've hit that midpoint where you're like really freaking good HR business partner, but you want to grow your career. The best way to do that is by learning about the rest of the business and how to apply HR within the broader context of the org. So that's kind of the main driving focus of this program. Each week has a different theme and that theme focuses on a different part of the business where you can take what you're learning, where you've learned and experienced in HR and apply it to supporting places all over the world.
SPEAKER_01:This is cool. This is fun to hear. It's fun to hear where you're going with this now, what you're doing. I remember watching your content on LinkedIn a while back. We have a mutual connection from your time at Oyster, Reese, following him, finding you and following your content and just really loving like your style and what you're putting out there. And having you here, this is awesome. But maybe tell our listeners, take us a little bit through, like, what's the catalyst for doing something different? And what would you say to other people who are kind of in that same boat facing similar circumstance?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, I really believe in not necessarily things work out for a reason because there's some, like, divine purpose that's mapping all of our lives. Like, that's not the way I look at it. But... But I do. I do think that there is a time and a place for things where the setting and the context and the circumstance are types of movement and certain types of change. About five years ago or so, I was thinking, I think I'm done with the VP of people, small startup lifestyle. I need to do something else. I'm burning out. I was about to have my second child. I was like, I cannot see myself doing this forever. And then it was a pandemic. And then I got laid off. The layoff occurred three weeks after my son was born, which was April 2020. So that was a pretty big signifier for me that the universe was saying, yes, change is coming. I was, at the time, I was feeling very, very compelled to make better workplaces for parents, for working caregivers, because I was really focused on this as a you know, as a second time parent in the middle of this pandemic, thinking, well, how can I take what I've learned through HR and apply that to better workplaces, period. And I wasn't sure how I wanted to take that. I ended up getting involved with a company called Tenflab, which focuses on helping companies create better environments for working caregivers. I ended up getting very deep into the care advocacy an activism movement through an organization called Careforce, getting really connected in with companies that were in the fam tech space. So building products and tools for working parents or parents in general. And I went really deep for about a year into this world. Ultimately, my co-founder at Temblab and I realized this wasn't going to be our full-time business opportunity. So I thought, all right, I'm going to go back to HR. I'm going to do some consulting, put it out there to the universe that I was ready to do consulting. And my first consulting client was Oyster. They wanted me full-time as an interim head of people. So like super traditional fractional HR role. They were 75 person tech startup just to raise series B, which is like the exact profile I said I would never work for again, but I was compelled by the mission and the founding team. And I just really loved what they were building. And I told myself, well, it's only six months. It's a six month gig. And then you can do something else. Well, after that six months, I ended up going in-house. And I was in-house there for another year and a half in a variety of different people leadership roles. We had hired Mark Frein as the CPO, and he's someone I'd wanted to work with for a long time. So when he asked me to stay on, I said, hell yes. And I was with Oyster for another year and a half, at which point I got laid off again. I wrote a whole thing on my sub stack about how weird this experience is to run a layoff where you are also being laid off. It was very strange. But since I had a a little time to think about what is it that I want to do next. I definitely know now that I don't want to go back in-house. I want to go try the consulting route again. What do I want to do? And what I came up with was take time off. Don't jump right into something right away. Take some time to really read those books that are piling up on the shelf and take up knitting again and organize the house and take a nap. And then two weeks later, Morgan Williams reached out to me and asked if I wanted to start a company with her. And Initially, I said no, because I'm taking time for me. But I was just too excited about what she wanted to build and what she had brought in Catalina Coleman to do it with her and they wanted me to join them. And I was just too excited by what they were doing to say no for real. So about two weeks after my last day at Oyster, I started building a new company because that's what rest looks like. I also at the same time was starting to spin up my fractional HR consulting business again. But trying to stay away from the fractional do-everything leadership role. The full-time,
SPEAKER_01:interim, that'll really
SPEAKER_00:help. Yeah, and I'm still not quite back to that yet. I've been talking to a lot of folks lately about the different ways that you can show up in fractional HR work. And the one thing that keeps striking me as like, nah, nah, I don't want to do that is the like, come be our interim HR leader. I'm like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to own everything. I want to come in for specific projects or specific work that's in my areas that I like to work in. But I am having a really hard time thinking about, even at 10 hours a week or 20 hours a week, being the HR person for a company. That's just a really, really hard job. And I don't think I've recovered from that particular flavor of burnout well enough yet to do that particular job again. I've recovered from other kinds of burnout well enough to be working and stuff. But it's a very particular sense of overwhelm that you get being... being the hr leader and
SPEAKER_02:it sounds like you've had a situation which has parallels with lots of other people i've run into which is and myself included you've done a thing in-house you decided to do it again and for the third time you're like no
SPEAKER_00:yeah but it really when i when i realized that i was going to be a part of the layoff in september i i Yeah. bonus work that I had been doing on myself all year, all 2023. I was like my getting to know myself year and I got my ADHD and OCD diagnosis, which is like, yay, now I understand my brain. I started getting really into tarot and like tapping into my witchy side. And I was like, you know, I really have this part of me that is like, I hate to say like it's all about vibes, but like there's a lot of me that's intuition based and that's like creativity and intuition and and kind of that generative ideation that you get when you're vibing on something. And how can I spend more time in that headspace and less time trying to be like this executive level operator slash manager that's not really in my zone of expertise?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think you're describing something that has happened to me in a wholly different way where I've given so much of myself to a company for so long And then what happens when the company lays you off, which has now been in that situation several times, is your whole self just disappeared. It went down the drain
SPEAKER_00:with that last paycheck. Where's your identity? Who even are you?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. And so then I strive for, all right, there's got to be something more. And so for me, I think each of us, if we hit that point, we can either go back to it again and try again, or we can say, well, can I keep myself separate and still have a way to pay the bills? And that's a challenge that I think a lot Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And not even, I think even beyond that, like it's not even just about how do I keep my personal self or my work self separate, but how can I remember that I am not my work and find ways to blend the two in a way that feels additive and not like I have to take away from who I am personally when I'm at work. Otherwise, I'm going to... It's impractical to think that you're going to turn a switch and now I'm me and I'm going to turn a switch and now I'm work me. Nobody can do that. The work-life balance, it's a myth. It's all integrated. How can you find a work environment that lets you feel like you're able to show up in a way that feels authentic and a way that is tapping into the things that you love about yourself? That's what's been such a unique... joy of building peak HR is the three of us are the co-founders are very different. We are, we have different backgrounds. We have different say like neuro spiciness levels. We have different medical needs. We have different caregiving needs. We are different racially. We live in different locations. We have different HR specialties. Like we are very different people, but we are commonly aligned to a certain set of values and a vision for the company. And so we, Knowing that about ourselves and knowing what it looks like when each of us, our best self and operating at our highest potential has allowed us to, to build a company with a distribution of work that distributes work to the most appropriate person for that job. So like, they're not asking me to, you know, create an operational model for how we're going to scale out a program because I could have a I'll say like, well, here's an idea, here's something we could do. And I've thought through it already. And here's the narrative and here's the blog post about it. And I already know what the branding is going to look like. And like, here's how we're going to redo the website to make it all tell the right story. And then I need them to say, okay, well, how are we going to pay for it? And how are we going to charge for it? And what kind of strategic sponsorship should we be looking for to help cover that? And operationally, how is that going to work? What platform are we going to use? And where are we going to students and how are we going to handle applications and how are we, you know, all of these, the pieces that you need to like actually make that thing land. But no one is expecting anyone to do something that's not in their zone of genius. And that's, I've never been in this environment before. Even when I've built diverse teams, I've built like a team of HR leaders under me. I've always been pulled into things that I'm not good at. And honestly, until I got the ADHD diagnosis, I thought it was just that if I worked hard enough, I could suddenly be good at those things. Because for a long time, if I worked hard enough, I could do them and I could do them well. But just because you can do something well doesn't mean you should be the one doing it. And there's a difference between being excellent at something and that being really the best work suited for you.
SPEAKER_02:And you're defining something that's happened to me where when I was younger, I could brute force things. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:And it's because the parts of your brain that were able to brute force their way through these things and like mask your ADHD and create workarounds so that you could actually get all that stuff done. Those cannot do that anymore because now they are focused on parenting a small child. And that's where like, they hadn't done studies in girls. They hadn't studied girls in ADHD. It was all about young, energetic boys. Well, naturally, you only need to study one type
SPEAKER_02:for it to explain everything else in the world.
SPEAKER_00:Of course, yeah. Those little boys bouncing out of their seat, let's study them and not worry about their super-focused counterparts. When I learned that this can show up as hyper-focused in young girls, I was like, I just thought I was really focused. And I was really focused, but that was to the detriment of lots of other ways of functioning. And all of these skills that you build up to help yourself work in an environment that's not suited to you become a lot harder to uphold when you're in a different place. Your brain chemistry changes as you get older. The things you care about change as you get older. Having kids... literally changes the chemical makeup of your brain regardless of gender. There's really cool studies through this work I did with 10Lab that we learned about studying the brains during fatherhood. The brains. Studying the brain during fatherhood and how the gray matter of your brain actually changes when you become a parent. And so anything you were doing to pretend or muzzle your way through it, you just physically can't anymore. And that's why so many people are getting diagnosed later in life, because they didn't fall into the characteristics that were studied 20, 30 years ago. So it's been super fascinating. That was a nice long ADHD tangent. It's super fascinating when you start thinking about like, well, what could I do if I wasn't spending time and energy trying to muscle through stuff if I was just doing the things that I enjoy and that come easily to me? And we are not, in addition to... not supporting this sort of from a neurological perspective as a society. We are not supporting this from a cultural perspective as a society because we in America live in a very puritanical work culture where you work hard and it's hard work and that's how you prove your value is by working hard. But what if there was value in the work that came easily to you. And what if the things that were enjoyable were just as valuable as the things that you hated but did anyway? Like, that's what we're trying to prove out with this little model that we're building over here. It's like, what could it look like to build a successful business where like, yeah, we work hard, but like, we also love our work and we're not burning ourselves out and we're all doing the work that brings us joy. I've
SPEAKER_02:had so many colleagues who just believe sincerely that just throwing a dozen, two dozen more hours a week at the problem will solve And if you're a certain age and maybe you have a spouse or significant other who will take all the load of running the family, sure, you can brute force it for a period of time, but you will burn out because you are giving everything you have to that. I'm not speaking personally. I'm only speaking about other people here.
SPEAKER_00:Of course, of course. Absolutely. No, I mean, it was different for me when I was 26 and single and... I would go to the office from 10 to 6 and I was living my startup dream out there in San Francisco. Or I would work 10 to 6, 10 to 7, 10 to 8, 9 to 8. But that doesn't last. You can't do that forever. And at least the way I was raised, the way I grew up was different. The model I saw around me was that people worked really, really hard to be successful. You have to work hard and you might not like it. But even my therapist, who's very old school, will sometimes say like, well, they don't call it fun. They call it work. I'm like, but what if work didn't have to be that way? And I've written a lot about this and I will continue to because I feel very strongly that we traditionally, we as society tend to devalue things that come naturally to us because they... are easy and they come naturally and we didn't have to work hard for them. And so they're less valuable than the things that we had to work really hard to get good at. And I just think that is the wrong message to be sending ourselves and our children and our coworkers. It took me a long time to value my creativity as a skill that was equally valuable to my colleagues' skills. Because I was like, well, yeah, I'm a creative person. I'm like an artsy theater person. But I wasn't seeing that as an actual skill in business. It was like this other thing. And I mean, really, a lot of it was from founding this company and having Morgan and Catalina validate that and say, like, you are our creative person. We need you to be creative. Like, that's what you're here for. And you don't need to do this other stuff because that's what we're here for. That's what we're good at. And that we have equal ownership in the company. because my skills are equally valuable to theirs. I have never, that's unheard of to me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's such an important conversation. Like I look at my daughter and I'll just proudly say that when this episode is published and it plays back, the intro music is hers. She wrote the score for our podcast. Oh, that's so great. And she is an artist. She's 12 and she's like a super talented musician. And I see the same like ADD traits in her where she can hyper-focus on a creative thing but like the rest of her life is not chaotic. Yeah. It's a, yeah. I'm trying to be nice, but how I say this, right? Like
SPEAKER_00:a little bit of time blindness there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So just hearing, you know, you validating like, no, your gifts are valuable skills. How can we move the business culture to really just lean into people's skill sets that are, that are a joy for them. And yeah, and value that without trying to force them into situations where like they're going to struggle because they're trying to do things that they're not inherently gifted towards.
SPEAKER_00:And it's not just about the creative side too. Like I, I have colleagues who are super gifted at analytics and think it's no big deal because they're good at it. And they'll be like, what? Like, this is like, yeah, I just like, I don't even know the right words to use to describe what they're doing, right? But they'll say, like, I just made this formula and typed in this thing, and here's your pivot table abstract chart graphic mode. And, like, that's amazing. You just completely blew my mind, like, that you took my, like, word vomit and turned it into a chart that made sense. Like, you understood what I was asking for and had the technology to turn it into graphics. Like, unimaginably amazing. And then they're like, Do the stuff that's easy for you. Bring value to an organization in a way that is generative and fulfilling for you.
SPEAKER_02:That right there. So I design apps for a living. And there's parts of it that I'm really good at because I love it. That's really the reason. I love... If you think about the whole part of making an app, I love a very specific part, which is the UX low fidelity sketching, like taking all the crazy ideas and getting some early ideas out for me and the stakeholders to look at. That's my favorite thing to do. If I have to do something that's going to make me money, a little caveat there. Once that's done, I want to do it again for another problem. But what often happens is it's like, all right, now there's the meetings and there's the detailing and there's the
SPEAKER_00:full bill
SPEAKER_02:and all of that, which those things are very important. And I had one project where I worked with another designer. We were the inverse of each other. He did not like any of that, but he loved deeply all the parts I didn't like. And that was our favorite project together. It was like bliss for three months where we're like,
SPEAKER_00:that's what you, that should be the goal. We should be building teams around that model all the time. Every company.
SPEAKER_01:This is so interesting then, you know, so the title of our podcast is fractional, but we don't like get parked there too much.
SPEAKER_00:I can bring this back to fraction. I got, I got the tie in.
SPEAKER_01:So here's where I'm thinking is like, how does someone who's facing like, I want to go independent, that means you've got to do a lot of stuff. How do you move from, I'm part of a team where other people pick up the things that I'm not inherently gifted at and I can really lean into my strengths to, I want to have autonomy, independence, impact, Maybe I got laid off. The path ahead of me is an independent path. So how do we help people find success as an independent when being independent kind of means you do the stuff you hate to do sometimes?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, so here's my bold assertion that's coming out for the first time now on this podcast. I think we are thinking about fractional consulting work in the wrong way. I think we should be building models that are more like a collective. where different people from the collective are brought onto the project in different stages or brought into the company in different stages based on their strengths. There's a marketing and PR consulting firm that I've chatted with a bunch who function kind of in this way where they have a core team, but then they scale up and down with various contractors where they're like, we need someone who can sketch out these initial wireframes. And then they're done with the project and it gets handed off to someone else from our team who is the person that does the next building stage. And I think that's a much better way to build these things. And if we think about fractional HR, the thing that I'm noticing so much about our community, you know, we're in this fractional HR leaders community of close to 400 people at this point. And many, many, many of us are like one stop shop models where like you hire me, I'm your fractional HR person, I'll do everything. And I don't think that that's the best model because most people I don't think want to do everything. And the reason you do it is because that's how you can make money, right? The company hires you to do everything. But I would love to see a world where maybe we all come together in some way or groups form groups of people where you have an aligned aligned model like values and deliverables wise but that like people are going to hire someone when some someone from our team to do the first ideation part of the project and then there's another person on staff who wants to do the to take it from ideation to project planning and there's another who's like really focused they love getting their hands dirty and building the thing and tinkering with the back end of the hris or whatever almost having the different fractional needs available within a fractional model. It's almost like having a fractional team rather than just one fractional leader.
SPEAKER_02:And this could scale out to something like design, right? Where you have marketing designers, UX designers, UI designers, and I wonder if there's a way where you could pull in and pull out the right people to help move a project forward. And if, yeah, if there's a So to take this into another industry, if there was a fractional design service that could do this, that could be interesting because I would rather spend more of my time doing the things I'm really good at and then pull me out and I'll do it again elsewhere. It does come down to the, is the money going to be very different versus you doing it all?
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's where I'm like, I'm the ideas person. Then I got to pass it on to the person who can do the financial modeling and look at, okay, well, how much would you need to charge a client to make this type of model work? Now you can take on many more clients in a shorter timeframe because each person is only doing a smaller set of work. I also think this model, this type of model would not work for everybody. I know plenty of people who like seeing things through from beginning to end. And I know people who have gone from consulting back to in-house because they were tired of consulting and presenting their recommendations and then leaving. Whereas I was like, that sounds like a dream. I want to hand you what I think you should do and then back away and let you figure it out. But I think that kind of model could be really interesting. And we think of it in plenty of other industries where you don't expect... one person to solve the needs of the entire project but for some reason within hr it's often well we need someone who can help us with our strategy for this but who's also going to be our hris administrator and run payroll and
SPEAKER_01:well i think when we
SPEAKER_00:have i want to like fractionalize the fractional well yeah i want to i want to be like fractionally fractional and so i i personally am testing this out with myself by trying to only take on projects that are contained enough to hold my interest and contained enough to be kind of in my specialization area. And I'm probably by the time this airs, this will be done. But I'm in the process of redoing my website to kind of rebrand myself in this other way. My current website is all about like hire me as your fractional HR person. And it looks like an HR services site. And when I realized that that's not really how I want to be marketing myself, it was time for an overhaul. So I'm in the middle of that right now, but what I'm hoping to do is build really strong partnerships with people who I know who have fractional needs or who are fractional people. I like, if you're working on a project, if you've got a six, 12 month fractional engagement with a client and you probably have more work than you can handle, like, Do you want to subcontract me out for five hours a week to work on this project for a short term? I want to test out this model and see what it looks like. Let's see if it works. And I don't know how long financially I'll be able to sustain that experiment. But I really believe in higher specialization as a way to change the way we think about work. hiring specific people for specific things
SPEAKER_02:i've actually someone on threads posted something that i've been kicking around for a couple of days don't try to be the best in the world try to be the only one in the world and i'm wondering like there with what you've described you know with what i've already shared about myself with what lance has shared there is like a pretty narrow band of what I absolutely love to do and what I'm good at. And frankly, I haven't met anyone else yet who likes to do it exactly the way I like to do it and provide service to a company in the exact way I like to do it. And I wonder if I were to lean into that and describe that in a very specific way.
SPEAKER_00:That's really what I'm trying to do is describing it in a very specific way. Because when I look at the websites of all of my friends who are fractional HR leaders, it's very easy for me to look at their websites and see all the things I don't want to do. And what's, what is the remainder and how can I make that the focus of my website? And so when people come to see what my, what I'm offering, it's very specific to what I want them to think of me for. I had a, I had a session with a personal branding coach who like asked really awful, hard questions about, you know, like what makes you feel powerful and how do you like, What would you tell people who want to work with you about why they should hire you? And I'm like, this makes me uncomfortable. I don't like it. But there's a bit of this kind of salesmanship that you have to adopt when you're a fractional leader. And thank me, Lance, when you talk about being, you know, when you're by yourself and you have to do these things that you don't like to do, getting really clear on what those things are and then figuring out how much of it you do have to do. Yeah. How much of it is actually necessary? I just talked to an accountant who was like, you don't have to be doing all of this accounting stuff that you're doing right now. Cause like, he's like, your revenue's not high enough. You don't have to deal with this. Wow. I also know that like, I am never going to be the person who is responsible for my accounting and bookkeeping. It's just not possible. I, that is not my skillset. I don't enjoy it. I get bored. I get confused. Not for me. So knowing what are the bare minimums that I need to do to be compliant and to be a functional business is, And can I do those things or do I need to outsource all of it? And is that something I can do? Either outsourcing to like a super cheap contractor, outsourcing to an accountant, outsourcing to my husband who is very good with Excel. But knowing like what are those things that you really don't like about running a business and you can't avoid some of them. So like marketing and sales, I don't love it. I actually don't mind the marketing as much. It's really the sales that I don't love. But that's part of why I'm trying to lean into this other creative model of like, what if it wasn't about me going out there and trying to sell myself to all these businesses? What if groups of us could come together and I could be a part of your portfolio, a part of your Rolodex, and we could all kind of help each other build the kinds of businesses that sustain the type of work we want to do?
SPEAKER_02:You know, it's interesting. If I see a spreadsheet... I start to sweat. There's a monthly meeting of an organization I volunteer at, and we go over the finance reports. I've been doing it for a year now. I still don't understand which page we're on when it's being referenced. I'm turning them upside down. I'm like, I
SPEAKER_00:don't get it. Spreadsheets and contracts. Just don't make me look at them. This is why Morgan is our in-house legal counsel, because she's really good with contracts. We just got this contract from this vendor. I'm like, I won't look at it. Tell me what you need me to look at. I can't read this 15-page legal document. It's
SPEAKER_02:not. My brain's just not going to do it. It's interesting. I really struggle with marketing and sales, but I've noticed that if someone... says, hey, I'm kind of interested. To me, that's not sales. That's basically just talking about, hey, what's your problem? Let's see if I can answer it. And the moment-
SPEAKER_00:Inbound is fine. It's not by sales. That's the tricky part.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I see what you're talking about in principle and in practice a little bit too, Kim. And sometimes a lead will come through and I'll be like, you know, like maybe I could do that if I really, really forced myself or tried to or stretched myself. But I absolutely know who loves to do this work. And that's exactly who I'm sending this to. I mean, I've done that so many times. And it's like a relief that, no, okay, I shouldn't have pursued that business. Like, that's perfect for somebody else. And I think also part of the value that I've recognized that my potential customers recognize when I'm chatting with them is like, well, I have a network of people who are really great at a lot of things. So, you know, if you really want somebody who's going to do it all... we're going to get somebody who's good at a lot of things, but also not good at a lot of things. Cause nobody can be good at all. And you know, it's like, you have the network and the resources to bridge the gaps. And yeah, like I see that as like, if you're going to build a house, you hire a general manager, a builder, and then they have all their subs that they're going to bring in and they're going to build the house, but the GM is not going to do the whole thing. But no, I love
SPEAKER_00:that. Your architect and designer is not going to be the one who's physically building the house. And the person who is constructing the frame is not going to be the person who's painting the walls and putting the furniture in. Or it's a
SPEAKER_02:decade long project and the house is going to fall over. Yeah. Well, Kim, thank you so much. I'd love to know where can people find out about you? You mentioned a couple of things, but is there anything else you want to plug if people want to hear more about what you're describing or just catch up to what you're doing?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. I've been listening to a lot of podcasts lately, so my instinct is to say we'll put it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_02:We will, yes.
SPEAKER_00:That's great. So we'll put this in the show notes. But I have a Substack called ICareTooMuch.Substack.com, where I write about the intersection of caregiving and culture, specifically parenting and people ops, if you want to get narrow on the focus. And I'm on Twitter with KatX at Kim's Kitchen Sink, somehow, still. Thank you. Thank God. So yeah. Substack and LinkedIn and the World Wide Web.
SPEAKER_02:Perfect. Thank you so much. And also, anyone listening, if you have questions, thoughts for Lance and I, you want to comment on our gravelly deep voices that we finally have because we're both sick, send us email to email at fractional.fm. And thanks so much.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
