Fractional
Fractional
Caitlin Lyttle: Turning Your Job into Fractional
In this fantastic episode we're joined by Caitlin Lyttle to talk about her recent journey into fractional; working with her previous full-time day job and previous connections to kickstart a fractional business.
We also talked about what you need if you're going to build a fractional business (runway, a sales funnel, and more), how different industries can improve your abilities, and a rapid fire Q&A on how things are going.
https://www.littleduckmarketing.com
https://www.instagram.com/littleduckmarketing/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/caitlin-lyttle/
Please let us know if you have any feedback and we'll include it in the next show.
email@fractional.fm
Thanks to embrin.com for the editing!
Welcome to Fractional, episode 61. I'm your host, Joshua Wold. Normally, you'd hear Lance. He has some computer issue at the moment. He'll bounce in. You'll hear his lovely voice later or not. And we also have Caitlin Little, a fantastic guest today. Welcome, Caitlin. It's good to see you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_02:So, because Lance did a little bit of the prep, I'm walking in blind on your background, your history. I'd love to hear a little bit about yourself, where you come from, and how you... got into fractional are getting into fractional and then we'll jump off from there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, of course. So to answer the last part right away, I was not expecting to kind of jump into fractional or freelance work at all. But I have been working in startup marketing for over seven years now, which I love it. I love working with small businesses, with startup leaders. I just love the impact you make. when you're working with a small team and within a startup. And previously to that, I was working in retail planning. So totally, totally big shift. But yeah, in terms of how I ended up in fractional work, I think working in startups and with small businesses... You get to know people really well. And I had some friends starting to refer clients to me just to help them on the side with little things like a website setup, how to like buy a website domain and get that whole thing started running paid social ads. So I started working with clients on the side and I really, really loved it. It was something that I just loved working on different projects. I loved working specifically with female small business owners too. And as I started doing that more and more, It just became... clear that this could be a really exciting career path and to kind of like work on my own and work with more startup leaders and small business owners, which is kind of what led me to the position I am in today. I
SPEAKER_02:love that. And one of the, I always ask this question because I'm so intrigued by it. You mentioned that this kind of started because you got clients and referrals. So I'm just going to jump ahead on the question. Where do you get new business from? And then how do you keep business that you have? That's kind of just seems to be the question that that so many people have.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, definitely. So I am very fresh to this. I started working full-time in fractional and freelance. My first day was May 13th. I literally know the day because it's half fresh. And it's just, yeah, it's been referrals of people that I've worked with at these startups. So former coworkers now turn friends when they hear someone that needs marketing help, they're referring them to me. And fortunately, we're now getting to the point where now Those fresh clients are referring people they know to me too. So it's been solely referrals. And then as well as I'm working with two of my clients are my previous full-time job, which is really exciting. And then as well as the company I was working with prior to that job too. So former full-time roles that I was in, I'm now able to do them fractionally.
SPEAKER_02:What's that? transition been like internally to the extent that you can share where, you know, you were an employee and now you're not, what has the communication been like? Cause both Lance and I have been through that shift and I'd say it went positively for both of us. Yeah. I'd be curious your thoughts on that transition.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it's certainly different for everyone or it could be different for everyone. For me, it certainly was a unique situation where I did have a team. I had two people who were reporting it to me. So when I was looking to make or hopefully make this transition, I did have to go into it thinking, I've made the decision to do this on my own. I went in basically pitching to turn fractional, and I gave them two different options, one of which was to basically stay in that role, which was actually a RevOps and growth marketing role. and stay in that role and still have people who report into me and still really be a part of that team. And then the second option was to really turn into more of an individual contributor and be able to do more of those growth marketing functions and operations that I knew that the team had needed. So I went into it saying, hey, I am resigning, unfortunately, from my full-time position. I'd love to pivot into this. Here are two options that I came up with that I think is really a business need still. Would you be open to that? Is that something you're interested in? And fortunately, the answer was yes.
SPEAKER_01:That's such a cool story. Yeah, love the success of that. I think you've got some more tips about creatively turning other things into opportunity. So yeah, if there's more about this, go for it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. No, I was going to just touch on the piece around how it's been in terms of that transition, which it's been wonderful. The company's name, I've got the green light to go ahead and share, is Ribbon Health. And the people that work there are just so amazing that I was just really excited to be able to like work in this new role. And I was working, I am working directly with a coworker of mine on the marketing team. So it's been actually quite seamless. Like you already know everything that's going on in the company. You already know who you need to go to for what, what the goals are. So it's
SPEAKER_01:been great. Is there a difference in terms of experience, right? Like I'm not an employee now, right? I get treated differently. How do you set up some more professional boundaries between relationship you have with your client versus your employer?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a great question. I think just being really over communicative is important. And I always ask my, her name's Allie. I always ask Allie before I go to do something or work on something or prioritize something, we actually have like a tracker. This is getting very tactical. We have a tracker. This is great. We go through every week together. We meet every week. So we set up, we meet at the same time on Tuesdays. We go through this tracker. We have an agenda and we She says, okay, here are updates that have happened over this past week. Here is what we're focusing on. So we go over, okay, what am I prioritizing? What am I deprioritizing? And then we also are constantly talking over Slack too. So we do have that communication. And there's a couple of key other stakeholders from the Ribbon team that are in my channel. So... If Allie's out of office or if something else comes up from the sales team, they're able to contact me that way too.
SPEAKER_02:This is still relatively new, but do you see any specific advantage of what they are getting from you that they weren't before? Because there obviously can be downsides that they had you available 40 hours a week or more, and now they don't. So pros and cons, but I'm curious how you think they're perceiving that shift.
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. That's a great question. I think it's nice to have someone to that, like with Allie and I, I think it's nice to know that there's someone supporting the marketing and sales team. And like, that is my only job. I don't need to like go to other meetings. I don't have to have other relationships with like other teams, which, you know, I know sounds perhaps kind of negative right now, but it's like, you're, you're laser focused. Like my job is to support people. Allie and whatever the marketing and sales team going on. And that's it, which I think is a benefit sometimes.
SPEAKER_02:You just touched on something that happens so quickly in organizations. Someone's brought in to do something, but they're great at what they do. And so they get asked by three or four other teams to please help me over here. I have this need. And there's this fantastic book I reference often called Essentialism by Greg McKeown. When you get pulled into so many different directions, you just become... basically unuseful as a whole. And what you're describing is maybe I believe Allie, you referenced as her name. She knows that like that's all you're going to do and it's going to be for her. And she kind of gets you to herself. And I'm using the words that sound selfish, but she has a either an objective or a key result or she has a thing she must accomplish. And she knows that you'll help her with that. And I've never heard it put exactly that way that you just described it. And I love that. That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm curious too, then if you're able to be so laser focused here, how does that, and I don't know, maybe you can't talk about this on there, but like, how does that impact your capacity to take on other work? Can you do that same thing for multiple customers? I mean, that's the idea with fractional, right? But in practice, you know, is, is that shaping up for you? Does it feel like that's something that you, you are going to be able to do or have been able to do?
SPEAKER_00:No, that's a, that's a great question. And I think, I have been able to do that, give every one of my clients that same approach kind of with two different ways. Number one is for all of my clients, I have that project tracker we talked about. And for all of my clients, we meet on Tuesdays, you know, Tuesdays mornings, we're able to all meet or, you know, I meet individually with them. I have that project tracker. So I'm very clear about like, okay, this is what we're prioritizing. This is what we're deprioritizing. And I think the other thing that's been working really well is the way I kind of package my services, I guess you could say, is I work with everyone on a retainer, a monthly retainer, and we decide on what the number of hours are as soon as we start working together. So I know going into the week, I need to give this amount to this client, this amount to this client, this amount to this client. So I know everyone's going to be taken care of. And then of course, like the great thing about fractional work and freelance work is you do have the autonomy to shift hours if need be. So for example, Ribbon did have a really urgent request that came in this morning. I had two more hours that I needed to give them this week. My other clients, I didn't need to do anything urgently. So I was like, great, let me shift these hours up today and then I can get to the other work later today.
SPEAKER_02:You know, you're actually touching on a really interesting, this is an incredibly touchy topic and fractional. So I love this. I've had some colleagues who will never say an hour, no matter what, ever. And then I have another one that is like, hey, it's actually been really refreshing just to let them know. And he actually just sells it by the day that this day, that could be a six hour day or a 12 hour day, but this day is yours. And there's a kind of a bit of a sigh of relief from the client and from him that they know what is actually being allocated. And it's a generous amount of money that he's charging each month to account for that. So that's interesting. You're taking a similar route. Have you seen any problems with that so far with the way you've been approaching it with the hourly?
SPEAKER_00:Not yet, actually. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's any... If anything, which I think everyone deals with, whether you're working full-time or fractional, some days, most of the time it happens in the afternoon to me. I'm like, gosh, I was planning on pushing through another hour today for this client, but I just can't do it. And it's so tough to be like, okay, do I push through even though knowing I'll get the hour done? But it's not going to be the best quality of work. And coming into it tomorrow would be much fresher. So I think also that's probably been the hardest transition for me too, is just saying, okay, you don't need to get this hour done right now. You can push it till tomorrow morning when you have a fresher mind. And that's probably the best decision, which if you were a full-time employee, you could either still push through that hour because you have to or... Maybe you don't and that's okay. And that doesn't flex your pay or not, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's an interesting challenge that the thing I've said to Lance in the past is when I've had a freelance client, they're paying me for the 15 years it took me to get this knowledge, not necessarily the 50 hours I'll spend this week. So there are pros and cons to everything. And it is easier to sell hours and have a clear relationship with your client where they and you understand what... what done is instead of this abstract method, which can make a lot more money where it's unclear. And I'm more talking to myself right now as I'm going through this. This is helpful.
SPEAKER_01:I'm sure there are more entrepreneurs who work themselves into full-time jobs because they didn't define how many hours you get and how many hours you get, right? It was just, I'm here to solve the problems. And then next thing I know, they're doing everything. So I want to go back to this point about having capacity for their customers. You told us how You sold your first fractional customer, Ribbon Health, on this new business model, this approach that you took. And you mentioned word of mouth, but how did you dig up other opportunities? How did you fill out your portfolio to start with here?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so like I mentioned, I... The other client that I have too, who is also totally fine with shout outs on anything, it's called The Financial Gym. They're also a startup and I had been heading up their marketing for over four years. That was my role before joining Ribbon. And it was a B2C company. There were a lot of business owners that worked there. And yeah, I think there I just because I was there for so long and was able to make like a really positive impact on the business. If you're really great at your job and you connect with people and you build a strong community, not that it's easy to get clients at all. But I think with being able to be good at building your own community and people know that you're good at what you're doing. And then also on the other front is sharing that you're open for business. You'd be really surprised about how many people are like, I need that. I need what you're doing. And or they know someone else who needs what you're doing. So those are the two things that have been really helpful for me is not being nervous or scared and really being able to put yourself out there too.
SPEAKER_02:There's multiple elements of success there that you've defined. One is your personality and your own ability. The other is having a thing that is a product market fit and then having connections. And I love all those pieces coming together. That's cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. On the product market fit piece too, before I decided this was something I should do full time, there were definitely three things that I was like, okay, these are three really great things that I think you need to check off if you're thinking about making this transition. Number one, to your point, Like, is there a need? Have you proven out that there's actually a need for what you're trying to do and what you want to do full time? Number two is like, do you have, you know, have you set up like things to fall back on if it takes you a while to ramp up and to get there? So certainly thinking more like financially, right? Do you have a health insurance? You can back off on those financial tactics that you need when you're working and you have a job. And number three is, what's the plan B? What if this doesn't work out? What's the worst case scenario? Worst case scenario is you probably need to go back full time and find a job, which I know is much easier to say, especially in this job market right now. But that is what plan B can look like.
SPEAKER_02:I was on Threads last night, the day before, and the term fractional came up in It was interesting. Someone had a concern that it's just one more way that big corporations can screw over the little person by not paying them. And I want to get your take on it because Lance and I have talked about this a bit from, it is a great thing for us personally to have this opportunity. I say this as currently a full-time employee, right? Like where that didn't work. But then I do hear legitimate concerns about if people split up, if companies split up and no longer have W2, is that just screwing over people in the long run? So I'm curious if you've had a sense of this or if you have a thought on that so far with your own delving into this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a good question. I... I do think that I don't see that in a world happening as long as people who work in fractional roles and people who work in freelance roles stick to knowing what they're worth and what they should be charging and holding to that and sticking to that. Because if we all do that... then like we're basically just not allowing it. And I don't know whether, you know, that is a system of formula that we all need to be like aligned on and say, okay, this is like what we charge and why we charge perhaps. But I think that was one of the things that really drew me to this, you know, to this, role or new way of doing business is having that autonomy to set your own price, set your own hours, say no to clients if you don't want, or if it's not in alignment with how you want to be working, whatever the reason might be, and saying yes to things that really excite you and make you want to do that work.
SPEAKER_02:That's a great way to look at it. And from a numbers perspective, let's say that a full-time employee was making$100,000 just for easy math. If a fractional person in a year made less than$100,000, I'd want it to be because they wanted the absolute flexibility because of things in their personal life, that that's what's important to them. And that'd be the only reason I'd want that, right? Otherwise, I'd want them to be making at least that number with multiple clients. That's kind of the goal. And then I've talked to we've had people on this podcast who have talked about, well, You should basically be shooting for twice that number for your individual contracts because of the sales cycle, you're going to have gaps, et cetera. So then your goal should be 200. And then you see, you hopefully landed between those two. And I think some people value autonomy so much and they value freedom of time. You can have family issues, personal issues where you don't want to actually work full time, but you still want to take care of yourself. And so long as those things are happening, you're right. I don't think fractional is an abuse. I think it actually can be an incredibly positive thing for the right person.
SPEAKER_00:Agreed.
SPEAKER_01:I want to also jump in here too, because this is a topic that kind of gets me worked up. What are the things that an employer would be doing for their employee that they don't do for their fractional? I mean, a lot of employers can abuse employees just the same as they can abuse a contractor, right? And at least in the US, in this country, there's not a protection in terms of severance and it's an Most states are at-will employment. So there's no guarantee that just because you have your job, you get to keep it, that anybody's going to give you six months of pay if they let you go. And you give those things up to become a fractional or an independent. But really, did you have them anyway? What is the trade-off? So maybe there's health care benefits. Maybe there's a retirement fund. But with the markup that an independent should be charging... You can buy your own and have more, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I don't know if you can tell, but personal finance and financial education is very important to me. And certainly, this mindset shift that I had to make from going full-time to fractional was very much, okay, but you're not going to have a steady paycheck anymore. You don't know what you're going to bring in every month, or you can try to as much as you can, but you don't know anything. And one thing I really had to switch was, well, I don't know with my full-time job either. We've all seen so many layoffs happening. We've seen so many really wonderfully talented people across the entire industry lose their jobs. And okay, that could be me. But what if I shift my mind and I say, okay, sure, I'll lose a client. I might lose two clients at once, but I still have maybe two, three other clients that that are still giving me some kind of income. So it was almost like, wow, this isn't so risky or it cannot be so risky. You don't have to look at it like that.
SPEAKER_02:And you've seen, we've all seen, and I've been this at times in my life where you're so committed to a single company from a missional statement that if a severance happens, you will probably get burnt out, maybe to go through depression, may realize that the thing you thought was all encompassing in your life and more important than anything else, well, actually it was not. And I found that whether a fractional or a W-2 employee, I've become a better, more, I'd say valuable person by being a little bit flippant where I'm like, no, I'm sorry. I've got other things in my life that matter. But when I show up to work, I'm going to bring everything I have, but it's not going to be 80 hours a week. That's ridiculous. It's not going to be even 50 hours a week. That's not the way my brain can get that done. You mean you're not going to work weekends for an
SPEAKER_01:extra hundredth percent of equity? You know, it...
SPEAKER_02:Come on! Go ahead, Caitlin.
SPEAKER_00:I was going to say, I think that goes back to, like, that's another point in the column of Fractional is almost a better way to protect yourself as an employee because, again, the way I do it is these are my hours that I'm working and this is the price that I'm working. And if you want me to do more and give more hours, I'm happy to do that. But I will be getting paid for that. And when I was a salaried employee, I would never, you would even stay until 8 p.m. Of course I will. I'm a team player. I will stay until 8 p.m. for this event and then clean up afterwards and still be in at 9 a.m. the next day. So I saw that opportunity too.
SPEAKER_02:That's a great point. That's the other side where you were being, I'm trying to use a softer word, but someone was not treating you the best way they could have, right? And now you have the opportunity And many of us don't feel that we have the ability to say no. Sure, it's a personality trait, but there's all kinds of institutional hierarchical things built into our society. Many people don't feel comfortable saying no. As a fractional, you can start to do that. And I love when I see that happen to people. It's almost like they've just become a new version of themselves where they care a little bit less and they actually become better for it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. I feel like that's been my experience.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's one of the challenges. And we had, I think, Greg's story on here a couple of months ago, fantastic guests. And I was kind of asking him, How do you say no if 100% of your income is reliant on that source of saying yes or no? And his challenge was, it's incredibly hard. Most of the time you're not going to do it. And I've found if your manager is the right person, you can do it, but most managers aren't. And that's a struggle. So you can tell that I bring my personal therapy stuff to this podcast. That's why we have this. All right, Lance, I'll pass it back to you.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm curious, when a lot of fractionals start out, we had this conversation with Heather You mentioned before the show that her episodes were pretty influential for you as a listener here. We talked about identifying who your customer is. And a lot of times we get into different demographics, right? It needs to be this size or this industry. What are some of the things that you've decided are groups that you're going to focus on? And has there been value in breaking outside of some of those barriers that Maybe traditionally, someone might say, I'm just going to work with tech or whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm a huge proponent of pivoting and working across different industries. I shared with Joshua that I worked in retail planning actually to kick off my career for two large retailers. And that's certainly not what I'm doing now. And after that, then I shifted into marketing despite having and graduating with a marketing degree and worked for a financial wellness company and then went into B2B healthcare. So I just think when you're able to work across different industries and work across different marketing landscapes and companies, you just learn so many transferable skills and perhaps something that this industry or this company is doing really well, that when you go into the next one, you realize there's a need for that. And you're the person that can bring that perspective, which I think is really rare. I think certainly if you're like, I am only going to work with D2C consumer brands and that's all, then you know what's worked and you have that perspective. But I think more often than not, you can figure out and you can talk to people about what worked and but you could be a really strong player for this new industry or new company if you're bringing it from somewhere else. Because who else is doing that?
SPEAKER_02:I was talking to someone and he said, hey, Joshua, I really appreciate your background. You've worked on enterprise apps and B2B and consumer apps. And what I found is when I was only working on one type of app, my brain would make excuses. Oh, This is enterprise. We don't have to make this delightful for the customer. There's no point to it. And you could argue that as technically correct in some cases. But when you've worked on consumer brands for a while and you go back to enterprise, you cannot help but bring that way of thinking where let's talk to the user. Let's actually hear what they have to say to try and understand how to improve that. And Well, Lance's experience before you were in tech, you were in a whole other industry and you've been able to bring things you learned into this. And now when you go back out to some of those other industries, you have the whole gamut. It's really neat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, mine has been agriculture, web tech, and now biological biotech. Yeah, that's what they're called. So yeah, a lot of different varied experiences, which I think we've referenced the book Range by David Epstein on the show before too. And just having... A lot of exposures, a lot of different experiences is really, really valuable. And I think, I think stakeholders tend to appreciate that too.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm curious, do you have any fears or concerns or things that keep you up at night as you're starting to figure out this new path and this whole transition?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yes, I do. My main challenge that I feel like I'm having right now is, especially as a marketer, you know, when I start my week, my, my clients work. comes first and foremost for me. And marketing myself and marketing my own business has certainly been put on the back burner. And it's something that I know that I need to do. And I know in order to continue to fill my pipeline and not just rely on referrals is something that I would really like to do. And or I think even referrals that you could get if you have a strong... social presence, LinkedIn presence, whatever it might be, whatever your preferred channel is for your business. If you have a strong presence, it just adds credibility to what you do. Even if it's not like a huge pipeline driver to you, it certainly helps spread awareness and give people like that. Oh, she is basically her own client, which is how I'm trying to, again, shift my mind and say, I am my own client. I need to focus on my own marketing as much as my current clients.
SPEAKER_02:That is, well, maybe because I'm not in marketing, I view that as very hard personally. How hard do you view that? Because obviously you know how to do it. How hard is it to do it though?
SPEAKER_00:It's just hard to really sit down and actually dedicate the time to do it. It's funny, when I was doing this transition, my manager at the time asked me, she was like, what are you most excited about? And what are you most scared about? And I was like, honestly, it's the same thing. It's the same thing, which I feel like always happens in life. I'm really excited to put myself out there to market myself. I feel like I have this new voice and I can share all these great things. But at the same time, I'm so scared to do that because I've never had to do that. I've always just marketed other businesses and I have ideas. I know how I want to do that or at least start to do that. But getting there, I think it's going to be difficult for me. So we'll see.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's a very interesting problem, right? Like the web designer whose website sucks. It's a challenge. You gave some insight into your process and how you manage your clients and run them through the hourly and the document and the calls. Do you have any advice if someone has a marketing background or an interest and they want to do this? Do you have any advice for where they should get started?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I do. Well, listening to this podcast is basically one of the places I started. We'll take it. We'll take that. I do. I think also, not that I've been surprised at this at all, but I have gotten quite a few fellow marketers who are either in the fractal space, maybe run their own agency, do freelance, reach out to me once I shared that I was doing this and saying, If you ever need someone to talk to, I'm here for you to talk to. Which has been amazing, just having that network. And then I also did join a community. It's called the Growth Tribe. Actually, a previous boss, when she heard I was doing this, she referred me there. They have a Slack group and they have... I think it's built on a platform called Disco, where they... It's just a huge resource for marketing freelancers or fractionals. And it's been phenomenal. They have webinars that you can, free webinars you can join. It's a very low monthly fee. I think it's$20. And the Slack community is great. They will also send referrals. So for example, someone just today was like, I have a financial education company who needs help with social media management. Does anyone have experience? And I was like, I do. I have lots of experience in that. So you can find even build your pipeline through the community. It's just been
SPEAKER_02:great. You know, I can't help but contrast this with designers. It seems that built into, it's not a given, but built into what you do is the fact that you know you must speak to other people. You must communicate and interact. And so that kind of runs into every way you think. And many designers and programmers, they find delight in thinking on their own solipsistically and going on long walks and don't necessarily want all the interaction. So Maybe I picked the wrong way of thinking about it. I love that. The community aspect is so crucial because I don't hear you saying, oh, I'm in there to extract as much as I can. You're in there to connect. You're in there to try and just... Walk alongside other people who are wrestling with this. And sure, you are going to get value out of it, but that's kind of not the full point of it.
SPEAKER_00:No, definitely not. I mean, I was truly like when I joined it, I was looking for a place to ask all the questions that I was having during this transition. And now it's been great because now I have, you know, two months under my belt of this. And some people are asking questions that I now have experience that I can answer and help them. But yeah, it's been phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02:I'm actually reading a book right now. I'm going to pull up the Audible title. It is Hidden Potential by Adam Grant, a friend of the podcast. And one of the things I love that he describes is one of the best ways to learn something is teach it as soon as you've learned it, like right after. Because if you've been doing something for 20 years and you try to teach someone, it takes a special ability to do that well. Einstein would not be able to teach me whatever he knew, like I would, there's too big of a gap. And so I love just that your acknowledgement and understanding of that process.
SPEAKER_01:I've never done this before in the show, but I've got, I've got a new approach here. I've got a series of true or false questions. I just want to throw at you based on some of the notes we have in our, in our agenda document. But, um, Lance, are you starting to sweat? It looks low. I've been sweating. It's hot in here. Yeah. All right. You're getting fiery. Let's go. Okay. Um, so Caitlin, um, True or false? You earn more as a fractional than you did as a full-time employee.
SPEAKER_00:True.
SPEAKER_01:True. Okay. True or false? You have more personal autonomy than you had as an employee.
SPEAKER_00:True.
SPEAKER_01:True or false? Five years from now, you think you still want to be doing this.
SPEAKER_00:Kind of. In a different capacity.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah. Right. Doing the same thing for the next five years sounds... Like it's the antithesis of being a creative entrepreneur, right? I'd like to add
SPEAKER_02:another one to that. True or false? And for me, this requires introspection, but all right. True or false? Are you at your computer more in the evenings and weekends now?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:You are. That's good. I mean, that's fair. It happens.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. The follow-up question then is, how does your family perceive the... the change?
SPEAKER_00:That's a good question. You know, I think my first week, my husband did call that out. He goes, hmm, this whole thing was so you could work less and I see that you're working more. But I think one thing I did not realize too was, yes, maybe I only have 30 hours of client work, but all the other work that goes into running a business or being a solopreneur, I did not take into account.
SPEAKER_02:That's a Great point. Actually, I logged my hours meticulously and there was a couple of weeks I got 30 and I wasn't billing hourly. That was an important thing. But I wanted to know my hours for myself just to understand. There was a week I got 30 logged client hours and I was useless that weekend. I was so shot. And that meant I was working late into most evenings. My wife did not see me because to do 30 logged hours is not the equivalent of a full-time job as an employee. I've rarely seen that happen where each hour was at the computer productive or thinking and designing. So what you just described, if your goal is 30 logged hours every week, that's really hard actually.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And also going back to my husband, We're both very career-oriented people. So he does also have a job that is, I'd say, even longer hours than mine. But I think if anything, he sees how excited I am with this new opportunity. And that's what kind of makes him, you know, he's not like, oh, you're at the computer again, if anything. He's like, wow, she is really loving this. She's at her computer again.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think there are seasons too, right? I think the first couple of months, if I look back on my own journey, that was an intense time, right? This is kind of the make it or break it. I've got to land those first customers. I've got to figure out my processes for dealing with customers. Now I've got to deliver on what I sold for the very first time. And the first time is always the hardest time. So I think it's common when you launch out into the deep that those first months are going to be intense. And a really good call-out about the tracking of hours, Joshua, I know we've talked about this before, but essentially, I remember you and I chatting early on that if you wanted to work a 40-hour week, you should try to plan for about 20 hours of client work. And that's hard. Cut it in half. Whatever capacity you have to work as an individual, cut it in half, and that's your client work. Unless
SPEAKER_02:you want to... Yeah. And that's,
SPEAKER_00:I was going to say, too, that's something certainly that drew me to this is, you know, my husband and I do not have children. That's certainly something that we would like to, you know, we would like to have a child someday. And me being able to have that flexibility is certainly something that, like, attracted this to me as well. And then, yeah, so that was another point.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's why, like, I wanted to specifically word earlier, Agreed. Well, Lance, do you have any final questions?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I guess the thing that we want to make sure that everybody knows is how to find you. Where are you hanging out? Or can we check out? And if someone
SPEAKER_02:right now says, hey, actually, I could use your services. What would that look like?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So my website is www.littleduckmarketing.com. I chose to name it Little Duck Marketing. Actually, originally, I was just going to say Caitlin Little Marketing, but the friend of mine, said, well, what if it's something that's bigger than you? Wouldn't you want it to be outside of just your name? And I was like, that's a great idea. So I'm at littleduckmarketing.com, also on Instagram, and my LinkedIn is Caitlin Little.
SPEAKER_02:Perfect. And you've made a small reference to this, but I want to push just a little bit further. And I know I'm not worried about pricing, that varies, and that comes down to the actual discussions. What does a typical engagement look like from if someone says, hey, I know I need a marketer, but I don't know how much I would need her, what... Do you have a feedback form? Do you have an initial conversation? How do you walk someone through guiding them to what the initial package would be for them?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So I do take a customized approach to all of my clients. I do offer free 30-minute discovery calls. And then after that discovery call, we'll send you a proposal based on what we talked about and what my recommendations would be specifically for your business. So some people, it is, hey, let's go all in on LinkedIn content. Some people are like, hey, we should... do a little judging to the website, maybe before we start, you know, paid ads or something. It really depends on the business and who we're working with and what your resourcing looks like too.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you so much for joining. And then for our listeners, if you have any feedback, you've just heard where to reach out to Caitlin and you can also email us, email at fractional.fm. There's also, I think, a text in this little player. I put that in there. So feel free to text us. We'll try it out. If it doesn't work, let us know. And we'll be back again. Thank you so much.
UNKNOWN:Music
