Fractional
Fractional
Arlen Byrd: Utility versus value
Today we're joined by a special guest, Arlen Byrd. Arlen is a longtime friend and former colleague of both Lance and Joshua. We worked together at XWP and Arlen's emphasis on people first has helped have a tremendous influence on how we think.
We talked about Arlen's core philosophy of people and their value in an organization.
We then discussed what Arlen is up to now, helping agency founders improve their teams. We went through Arlen's journey leading to his current work, his work-life harmony with a family, why it's not good to know the journey in advance and why self-awareness is a superpower.
https://www.agency.partners
https://www.linkedin.com/in/arlenbyrd/
Edited by Caleb at embrin.com
Hello and welcome to episode 63 of the Fractional Podcast. I am co-host Lance Robbins here with good friend Joshua Wold. Excited to be here today. We have a special guest, Arlen Bird. Arlen is someone who has played an important role in both Joshua and my career journey. Thank you so much for having
SPEAKER_00:me. I've
SPEAKER_01:been working on
SPEAKER_00:it. You know, it's interesting. I want to get into your background in a minute, Arlen, but my first memory of you is I'm probably 20 years old and my brother and I and a brother-in-law had a business and you would send leads to our business. And my job was to walk down to the post office with the little referral check and drop it in. So I would see, who's this Arlen Bird? I don't know. My brother wants me to take it to the post office. So that's the first- Guy we send money to. Who also, we got a lot of money as a result. Thankfully, we're able to keep our business flowing. Yeah, hopefully so. There's a lot of ways we can do this because we have so much background. 2015, I joined a company that you were at. So you interviewed me to join that company and worked alongside you on and off for about five years at this startup. And then Lance joined halfway into that or a third into that. What was the timing on that Lance? Yeah. I probably met Arlen in 2015
SPEAKER_01:as well. And it was a two-year courtship to move me out of my position I was in over to XWP. And the timing couldn't have been better. I joined in 2017 and was on and off there until the end of 2023. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So... This is not in the agenda, but I've got to ask Arlen, what would you say is the thing that defines you really well? Like what you've worked with so many people and you've definitely developed like this is how you tick and how you work well. What would you say that is? And if you don't have an answer, I'm ready to jump in. So I'm just curious your insight on that.
SPEAKER_01:That's very interesting. Yeah. What defines me? I don't know that I have it distilled down to one thing. I think what I want to define find me maybe is an easier question for me to answer. And I would say that what I want to define me, my work life, but also my personal life is just a core belief that people are valuable and that whether they do what I want or don't do what I want or do things I don't like, right? Like people are just inherently valuable and they deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. And that it's only as we begin to start with that assumption a value for others and to look for the ways we can help each other and the ways that we can combine our strengths that we can create the most value in the world. So I don't know that that does fundamentally characterize me, but it's something that I aspire to and that a lot of other important people in my journey have inspired me around that idea.
SPEAKER_00:I can say that I've seen that in you, where that was an aspiration that you were striving toward and matching in my opinion. What do you do when someone starts to break that assumption? We're like, well... I don't know about this person. Are there mechanisms you do to try to psych yourself up? Because I'll look at someone and I'm like, I just, I'm not seeing it. That person's just really bumming me out right now. Is there a way that you approach that when that happens?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think it comes back to the whole frame of reference, right? That whether someone is valuable or not has nothing to do with their utility. So their ability to help me or people or causes I care about progress or their ability to to slow those important things down just doesn't even come into the equation at all right so i i think once i set that utility aside of whether someone is doing good in the world or doing harm in the world to me or other people or things that i care about and i just say nope i don't care how much of a pain this person feels like they are to me they are valuable they deserve to be respected treated with respect and kindness. And there is something of utility in them too, right? I may not see it yet. I may never see it, frankly. But anyway, so I think the equation for me is different. And maybe starting with that frame of reference of just believing without any evidence, you could say almost that this person is valuable. Their value is not tied to their utility. Yeah, it just, it makes me look at people maybe a little bit different. It doesn't mean I don't get upset at people. and don't get really bothered by people sometimes, right? Yeah. I watched this in practice play out over the time we've spent together and I noticed, and something I've adopted as well, right? The same frame of reference, but at some point, right? Like there's an opportunity to put a boundary, right? Where like this person, their value doesn't change, right? the respect they deserve for me and from the community that I'm a part of doesn't change, but they're better suited to a different community. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't mean I trust them, right? It doesn't mean that I let them do whatever they want to do necessarily if I have any control of that. So yeah, it doesn't preclude boundaries, which is exactly what you described.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I think that leads really well into... Would you mind sharing a bit about your background and what you do? Because it does relate very much to, I think, that core philosophy of how you think about people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I don't know exactly where all that philosophy comes from, but I did grow up in a pretty active Christian community that I think had some of those values, you know, that preached at least the ideal of loving everybody, right? And it doesn't matter whether they, in that case of value judgment, like do good stuff, do bad stuff. So I'm in a pretty different place personally now, but I think those values really influenced me on my work journey. It really started in a very different place. I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family. My dad had multiple companies that he started over my growing up period. And so to me, business, starting companies, running companies feels much more comfortable and safe in a certain way than working for somebody else and being a W-2. Although that, of course, brings some maybe stability and things you don't have to think about. But yeah, so that's really where my journey started. So I started my first company while I was still in college, hired my first employee while I was still in college, and yeah, really began maybe picking up in those first five years a lot of these core practices of belief in the value of people and teamwork and that as we combine our strengths we do we do much better work together trust people to begin with and then see how that goes so drawing from that entrepreneurship and the the the concept that like that's probably a better path for you personally based on your experience you what have you been up to the last year or so and and how is that playing out in your life now and maybe that will be be the most interesting to your audience I've enjoyed the episodes I've listened to of really seeing where people are in the thick of things. And when you asked me about coming on, I feel kind of uncomfortable right now. I'm not in this pretty moment in my journey. But yeah, that does make it more interesting. And
SPEAKER_00:by the way, just to interrupt for a minute, Lance and I, we're getting the sense that most people aren't. And I appreciate those who maybe are at a point in their life where they're comfortable enough to say that out loud. And if they're not, that's also okay, right? Maybe they have certain reservations to just saying that publicly. But I think a lot of people are having a hard time. And I appreciate you being willing to call that out, right? Because it shows part of the struggle and reveals to others that maybe they're not alone. So please continue. I'd love to hear what you're working on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No, I think that's true. I mean, certainly lots of people I talk to, whether they're in a full-time job now or they're trying to build something new, it's a challenging time for a lot of people right now. So about, I guess it's about seven months ago now, I signed off eight months ago, signed off from XWP, where I was leading people ops, was really ready for a change. Been there eight and a half years, and it was an amazing experience working with people like the two of you, but needed something fresh. And I And as many of us know, the agency world, being inside of a single agency, there are a lot of ups and downs. There's beautiful, amazing moments, but also can be a lot of stress with clients coming and going and how that impacts the team. So yeah, I started thinking about how can I take what I've learned and create the most value from that, right? For myself, honestly, but also for others. And so I've spent... about 15 years of my career in the agency space. And when I reflected on this value I mentioned earlier, you know, value people and ultimately care about what you can do to make their lives better, the first inclination might be like, people ops, HR, those kinds of things. And I've certainly explored what I can do in that area. And there's a lot of value to be added there. But in the agency world, if you think about what does an agency need to create a great experience for its people, right? First of all, you need... some core values that put an emphasis on people and that aren't like, hey, people are cogs that are expendable, right? Which a lot of agencies do operate that way and a lot don't. A lot really do try to take care of their core values first. And then secondly, it is not, I think, people ops. It's having a healthy business, right? Like having a value engine where you're creating value for customers consistently, effectively, and then you're able to capture a piece of that and take good care of your team, be profitable. So if you're not profitable, if you're not healthy holistically as an agency, you can't take good care of your people. It's just not possible. So that left me thinking, what could I do to help agencies be healthier? The ultimate outcome there is that Owners are healthier. The team is healthier. There is money available to invest in the team and to get that flywheel going of creating more value in the world, too. So in my experience, a lot of the issues we've had in agencies I've worked in, they were preventable problems, right? Like things that if we had had more visibility, if we'd been paying more attention, maybe we could have done something better to improve. take care of those threats or things that hurt the company. So yeah, that's really where, where I've landed is, is this idea of, of exposing reality. The first business book I ever read was about execution and to get something done, you have to expose reality and then act on it. It's really not that complicated, right? It's hard. It's very difficult, but it's not complicated. So,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. So if you were, let's say an agency owner and for my I'm thinking of WordPress agencies that help to do large projects, but there are many more out there of various types, but that's in my brain as I'm kind of talking through this. So an agency owner with clients who's having some success but struggles, they come to you for help. What does the start of that relationship look like for you to try and understand how they could have a better culture, be more profitable? What are just some ways that you approach that?
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, the first thing I want to understand is what is the vision of that leader or leadership team? Where are they trying to go? What kind of business are they trying to build? What kind of value do they want to create? If you don't know where you're trying to go, you aren't real likely to end up there, right? So start with that. And then the next thing is just to look at the fundamentals. Agencies are pretty simple businesses. They're not easy, but they're simple. And so I think looking at the data and And some agencies have much better data than others. But looking at the data, financial data, clients, accounts, projects, any data they have about people, their engagement, health and well-being. Again, the size of the agency is going to determine how much of this data might be available. But you can begin to see how their threats landscape looks, right? Like, do they have important customers that might be getting more behind on paying their bills and there's a risk there? Or do they have an issue fundamentally with projects not being sufficiently profitable? And so regardless of how they're operating otherwise, right? The projects aren't creating the profit. So I think the data, collecting the data and analyzing that data is really helpful. And not even as a big, you know,$10,000,$20,000 audit. A lot of consultants and advisors start out with a big audit. I think that can be really helpful, but might be too much for people to chew on, right, actually. So take an initial look, identify those big opportunities and threats, and then just steadily work through those.
SPEAKER_00:I can speak from experience working with both of you in an agency that there are times if you're on a project team and you've been given a budget and a timeline and a client, it can become, you can become so focused on that, that you're not actually stepping back and understanding. Maybe we should reevaluate how this project is going, right? You're in the weeds, maybe making software, working on so many little things. So what I hear you saying and what I've seen you do is, can we just see how does this compare against the industry? How does this compare against other clients? How does this compare against other teams? Is this actually doing well? And I'm guessing some founders maybe don't have a baseline, right? They're going off gut. And what I'm hearing you say is, well, actually, this project is kind of normal right now. It's okay to have this much volatility. But this one over here, here's something we need to flag and maybe pay attention to. And here's why. And here's some ways that you've seen that it can be fixed. Is that an approach that you'll take?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it can be that granular, like at a project level. But I think often you would zoom out from that and say, okay, looking at the business in the same way you describe a project, the business as a whole, we talked about where you're trying to go. So what are the KPIs, the key metrics that help you see, am I making progress towards that goal, that future that I want for my company and my team? And then look at the drivers. What are the things that build that success and how are they going? And then you identify, okay, well, maybe it is project profitability like we talked about. So then you drill down further and you say, okay, well, these three longstanding projects are bleeding actually. There may be a lot of money that's coming in, but a lot of money going out to make those projects happen. So it's working from vision to the KPIs for that vision, to the drivers, to the actual details that you can move to improve. So it becomes very actionable. I want to rewind back to something you said I jotted it down, it stuck out. You said an agency is a business that's simple, but not easy. That brings up a couple of curiosities for me. One is, if it's a simple business model, why is it so hard for so many agency owners to replicate a successful one? That's the one question that came to my mind. And the other is, what are some pieces of advice that you might give to someone who is starting a solopreneur service based fractional business who is wrestling with, should I expand into a micro agency or should I continue to be solopreneur? So that's kind of a lot and I can repeat those if I need to, but I'm curious on your- response to those thoughts. So the first one, one more time, I got the solopreneur, but the first one was around advice for help me out. Yeah. The first one being if it's a simple business model. Yeah. Right. Why are people having a hard time? Yeah. Why is it so hard to replicate? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great question. I think part of it is because it's simple and the barriers to entry are actually very small to put out a shingle and start doing work. That means that it is pretty competitive. And I think in a lot of ways it's the pie is smaller in 2024 and the competition is larger than at any point I can personally remember right so if we look at the last 15 years I'd say the competition is is more significant or intense so I think differentiating yourself is is maybe the biggest problem that I see agencies having so who do I serve what do I do for them how do I create value for them and and I think there's because it is in part part of relationship business, there's a lot of temptation to serve whoever comes along, right? And then that is not repeatable. It doesn't create differentiation. You're not able to do the pattern matching, as David Baker talks about, that allows you to provide a lot of value per dollar spent, a lot of value per hour you put into a particular project. So it is simple. And that's part of what I think makes it hard to be successful at, because it is also very competitive. So those are some of the reasons maybe that come to Maybe another reason is because agencies are not typically started by business people. They're started by crafts people, you know, designers, developers, people who are marketers, who are the people doing the work and they love to do the work, but maybe they really weren't setting out to build a business that just sort of happened to them. Like me hiring my first, my first employee, I wasn't really setting out to build a business. I just had too much work to do. And so I hired somebody else out. Those are some of the reasons maybe why it's quite difficult. And to your second question, the solopreneur question, so how, and I think specifically you were saying there, how would you approach deciding whether or not to go from being a solopreneur to hiring a small team, converting that into a microagency or studio? I think I see so many agencies that have made the decision to grow, right? There are 10 people, 20 people, maybe 100 people even, and they still don't really know who they are. They don't know what they're selling or who they're They're selling it to, they think they do, right? So I give them that, but from a market standpoint, they're not really clearly positioned. And so they don't have the same kind of customers over and over. They're not developing that deep expertise. Like I think of it as a 50 person freelancer, a hundred person freelancer, right? They have the exact same problems that a single person might have, but they're much messier because of the scale. So I would say before you hire anybody, really try to get clear on who you're serving, what you're doing for them, and be as specialized as you can be, and make that work well. Maybe you do need to bring on some very specific talent or help, contract, part-time, freelance, where you're not strong. But try to keep your scale as small as you can until the pattern starts to emerge and your specialization is clear. Because I think it's so much easier to scale a very specialized business than it is to scale one that is generalist.
SPEAKER_00:You know, the thing that I was just listening to, the value of building on your strengths instead of trying to improve your weaknesses. And there's some benefit to that. With, you know, I've got a W-2 right now, but I've also done a lot of freelance. And what I've found, this is jumping into being a designer, is there's a very specific type of design. that I'm very good at. And if I could repeat that all day long, well, I'd probably get bored and want to do something else. But let's just say if I had enough of that, I can do it very efficiently. Actually, more efficiently than most other designers I've ever seen. The moment I get into other areas of design, I immediately want to just go do literally anything else. And I want to hire out for it. Run. Like, I'm gone. I don't want to... I don't love building websites, for instance. That's not my deep love and joy. I've done it enough. I'm kind of done. I'd say that for now. I might need to do it in the future. All that's to say, I... have found that by getting better and better at this specific part of design, and for me, it's like UX design and strategy for a company, I can charge more for that. I can do it more efficiently. And maybe if I knew that enough about my business, I could let people know that's all you're going to get out of me, hire others for the rest, and I'll do more of that. So that does make me think because the moment I get into other parts of design, I'm slow. I'm not as efficient. There's a hundred other designers better than me in those areas.
SPEAKER_01:And this is just is the fundamental limitation of humans, right? Like our ability to really master a lot of things is quite limited. There are some people who are better at that than others, but broadly speaking, we we can add more value to the world as specialists. And so specialization is built on doing the same thing over and over, which can get boring. It can get tedious, certainly. But maybe that's the point, back to your question, Lance, where you do start to hire other people. If you have enough of a pattern that you are beginning to get bored and you know how to create more clients like that, you have that system dialing in, then I would say that's the moment to start hiring people and to maybe learning the skill of supporting a team and developing a team doing this thing that might be getting a little old to you or a little boring to you, but is adding a lot of value.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm just thinking of a project that I've done recently, which was similar to a project I did last year. So many things were the same. But the reason I actually got excited is I already had a baseline. I was able to, in my brain, say, oh, I know how to replicate 80% of this instantly instead of wasting time. And then I was able to spend a lot of time on the other 20% that was actually new to me, where I was like, I've not actually done an interaction specifically like this. Let me go dive into this. And I think the end result was that what I created was actually really helpful because I was able to learn something new, but also build on a ton I've already done before for a new client. That was actually quite fun for me.
SPEAKER_01:We had a guest not that long ago say something that stuck with me as well. It connects to what you were saying, Arlen, is being a CEO and building your business is also... creative satisfaction right so for somebody who is a developer a designer a marketer and that creative outlet type of work is really important but you keep getting the same work over and over again and that begins like you said we feel stagnant but that's where the cash stream is yeah there's there's a new field of creativity and how do i build and grow a business and that can be Yeah, that can also be really satisfying. Shifting gears a little bit, I know that you're not the only entrepreneur in your house. So it's a big challenge when you're trying to start a business for one person to balance the demand for effort and energy and attention for that, but let alone two. So yeah, tell us a little bit more about what's going on there for you and how are you balancing sanity and work and life? Yeah, my wife and I have bit off a lot to chew on the last little bit So we homeschool our three kids. That's mostly her, almost entirely her. And she has started a company focused on homeschool curriculum right now and has launched her first product this year. So that's really exciting. But it takes a lot of time and effort to do that. She's built a category buster product with far more investment in it than typically goes into a comparable product. And then me working on starting a business at the same time, So there's been a lot of challenge. I don't even know that I would say challenge, but a lot of effort that goes into negotiating how we handle time. I mean, I know lots of families have dual earners that have to figure out household responsibilities and how they're handling the kids, but we're all home together all the time. And so it can be kind of interesting. We have in the end found ways that work. And I think back to the idea of simplicity, you know, the simpler, the better. So by and large, When we're homeschooling, which is four days a week during the day, I'm working. And then I've got the kids really the rest of the time. So she's working those alternate hours and also preparing for homeschooling, right? But I think the part that makes this maybe more interesting is just the ups and downs of motivation. I think we both feel the financial pressure as we're building two businesses, and we both feel probably Probably some guilt when we don't feel like we're adding, like we're maybe taking a lot of time, but we're not adding the revenue to the family we'd like to be. How do you manage through that? Just takes a lot of communication, I guess. Unfortunately, we're best friends and we've got a strong foundation to build on. But I don't think I'd advise people to attempt this, right? Starting two businesses at once, I would say, if you can stagger your entrepreneurial endeavors a little bit, the stress would be less.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you insinuated in the beginning that there was a reason that you felt this pull to go build and create something again, right? Was it just, this is, even with all the risks involved, this is more interesting than maybe being in a place without any opportunity to continue pushing yourself? Was that the driver? You talked about wanting to create value for your family. I'm curious, what is the kind of motivation to go do this thing that frankly has risk and a lot of stress? Why might it be worth it? Or why is it worth it today even before you're through the clouds?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it goes back to maybe how you look at risk long-term, right? So my dad, as I said, who's been very entrepreneurial his life. He's in his seventies now and has sold his last business. He does not recommend people be entrepreneurs. He says, get a job, get a 401k. Life is less stressful that way. But if you look at the longer arc of creating wealth and then being able to do something with that money that maybe can make an impact in the world, make an impact for your family. I think something about the business path is just really attractive in that regard that there's the potential to do, get the same outcome either way. Some of that might be the need for new things, right? And new challenges. And that maybe that's a little bit harder to reliably get when you're not running your own company. So yeah. At the end, it may not even be about a really calculated decision as much as just what works for someone personally. I think I'm prepared to pay those dues of stress and challenge. And for some people, that would be a really bad trade-off. They'd rather something that might be a little more boring and where they're at one customer's mercy. That's what being an employee is. It's having one customer. And that's maybe the number one thing that I want to move away from is having one customer. I want to have dozens, at least, of customers. A typical person in the fractional realm, in my experience, is looking for three, four, five clients, maybe. I don't know, from your experience with your guests, what you would
SPEAKER_00:say. Yeah, that feels accurate from just talking to different guests.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that works for a lot of people. I'm not in that camp. I would say I want to build a business, even just as a solo person, with 25 customers, let's say, or more. So it needs to be a lot more productized, a lot more systems, a lot leaner to build something like that. It's a little bit of a different game.
SPEAKER_00:It's interesting. We've talked to a number of people who are trying to define fractional, what it is, what it isn't. And frankly, if we're talking to interesting people, I'm not just hung up on the word. Exact definition. Yeah. It sounds like what you're doing is trying to build a business here that may have fractional elements. It might start
SPEAKER_01:as something that looks very much like a fractional business, right? But evolve from that.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that's something Lance and I are seeing that there will, this is probably like any industry. I have a friend that is a top salesperson in a large organization. You could probably take him, put him in another organization and he would probably do very well. So it's almost like that's just a skill that he has been able to create. So I wonder if it's some people just do very well in fractional and take all the revenue and others will use it until they figure out something else. So it's just kind of interesting to watch this industry is trying to shape, I'd say What is the, this is kind of the next thing you'd put down. What's your, what motivates you each day when you're maybe you're feeling down or there's family stressors or you and your wife are just trying to like juggle everything. What made it motivate you to maybe try to keep finding ways to create value versus, I don't know what you're like going on YouTube or Reddit. I don't know what you do, but like, I'm curious, how do you balance that? Maybe if you feel completely drained, what does a day look like?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, when I imagine an entrepreneur, whether it be someone building a fractional business or anything else. I imagine sort of a superhero who maybe doesn't have that many emotions other than confidence and exuberance, right? That's what comes into my head. And that is not me. I have lots of ups and downs. And I'm learning through this experience. I've had multiple entrepreneurial stints. I'm learning through this one that I think when I'm losing motivation, it has very little little to do with whether I'm really making progress or not. It has a lot to do with whether I understand how to make progress right now. So it's about, do I see how what I'm doing today is going to get me towards where I'm going? So when you're building a business, there's so many points where I think this is going to work out, right? Like for example, maybe it's a particular way to structure an offering for a client or a tool that I'm exploring to add more value for a client And it's just not what I expect, right? It's going to be a lot more work or it's not going to work at all. What do I do in that moment? And I'm sure some people are comfortable facing those kinds of realities many times a day, but I find that challenging. And so then if I don't see, hey, I'm going to take steps A, B, and C, that's going to get me to the next point. If that plan that I had is not going to work out now, that's where I tend to get stuck, right? So I have to make a new plan to figure out a way around this obstacle, through this obstacle. And that can be a few minutes, but it can easily be a few hours a day, even a bad week where I feel stuck. So I think there's a skill there that If someone starting out on the fractional journey or any entrepreneurial journey can develop that muscle of facing a problem that feels in the moment insurmountable, right? Or at least this is going to take a lot of effort and I'm kind of tired already. Develop that skill of pausing, reflecting, you know, defining the problem, exploring solutions creatively as like a whole separate kind of work. I am learning to do that more consciously and it's helping me to move a little faster through the stuck points that I encounter many times a week.
SPEAKER_00:There's something there of, I can't move forward, but instead of thinking, oh, I'm lazy. I'm not any good. I'm not smart. It's no, I'm stuck. And let me pause for a minute to figure out why to try and uncover that. And for me, and I know each of you have similarities and differences in this, like sometimes a 40 minute run in the woods is one of the biggest things I can do to get unstuck. Frankly, sometimes a nap, I'll take a 20 minute And I wake up feeling amazing. Versus in the past, I've just gone at it for, I'm not opposed to working a very long day if I'm just so fired up and I just feel completely zoned in, like locked in. But I've found that I'll pay the price the next day. So all this is to say, when I feel stuck, I've found taking a day, sleeping on it, running, resting, those things often just create so much opportunity because it's almost like my body says, hey, Joshua, you're okay to not be 100% on this. And the brain, like, I'm going to help you out. Like, you're taking care of your body. I'm going to help you out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And maybe that's part of it is I have a hard time letting go. So my default response is, is is actually to escape right to to do something else that is not moving me forward but i i think making those things conscious journaling going for a walk even taking a nap like you said to start again and to surface what's going on and and that's maybe an overall life lesson that i'm i'm working on learning is to just be more conscious of what i'm feeling uh there's i think a superpower in self-awareness, not of who I am, but like what's actually going on between my ears and my feelings, my headspace and journaling and going for walks really helped me to face that instead of running away from it. So instead of listening to an audio book while I'm doing the dishes, you know, actually don't listen to anything, force myself to be with myself. It's a scary place. It is. It can be hard, honestly. I want to escape some of that, but it really helps to work through it and to get a fresh start and to press through those problems that come up every day. I can relate to the comment about wanting to escape when you're not clear how to proceed. That's not exactly what you said, but how you shaped it. When I'm facing, even if it's not within my business, but in general, a new project, a new task, and it's something I've never done before, and I'm not clear how to do it, and this is going to take a bit of research and learning and trial and error and figuring it out, I It's like the hurdle to get started on that is huge. And let's be honest about escaping. I know that when you want to escape, you're probably planning a multi-day trek in the mountains and researching deer. Constructive escaping. Yeah. Sometimes there is that, you know, spending time on Gaia. thinking about future adventures and usually not gear these days, but what, what I might do, but the worst of all is YouTube shorts. Like that is the, the most soul sucking for me personally, the most soul sucking escape because I get, Not nothing, honestly. There are occasionally a short that I take a thought away and it actually puts me on a good path. But by and large, I get nothing out of it and they just go forever. I could spend years and years just scrolling shorts because there are always more of them.
SPEAKER_00:For me, threads is the current challenge. I follow a couple hundred people on there who are quite fascinating. There's unlimited content. And what I've found... Yes, Infinity Pools, Cal Newport, our buddy. What I've found... is sometimes if I see a really good piece of content referenced, I'll save it to a note stock and move on. And then once every couple of weeks, I go through this big writing tear where I write a whole bunch of articles on my blog, where I spend time to digest and respond. And that's almost like public journaling. And what it's done is it's reframed my brain instead of just consuming all the time. Ooh, I want 20 seconds to go get some fun little candy online. All right. Actually, I'm going to save that for later. And I will come to it later and go through it all. So that's been kind of a fun... There's one night I wrote like 10 articles where I just wanted to pour through a bunch of content. So I think we all have our infinity pools. And how do you... not let that take over your life versus I think it's okay to have a little bit of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think, I think the stop is the key, like finding a way for me to stop that works and, and probably having a few of those, but opening up Apple notes and starting a new note to just basically stream of consciousness. Here's what I'm thinking really helps me. I mentioned going for a walk. I live on a quarter mile lane, so I can just walk up the lane and back. And that's a
SPEAKER_00:It's also interesting. We're all getting older because it's just it's interesting to have these conversations where we're all I think you're still in your 30s, right, Arlen? Yep, 38.
SPEAKER_01:So it's a good time to be alive. Lots of challenges, but lots of opportunity. And we've lived long enough that we've had some School of Hard Knocks experiences, and hopefully we can put those to use to make the world a little better.
SPEAKER_00:One of the guests we had on the podcast, Alan, I believe he was 42 or 43 when he started his business. And it was really cool to hear him say that, yeah, it was... Great to have a W-2 to just learn for a long time, build up that industry connections, build up understanding. And then, yeah, he had a solid conversation with his significant other where they're like, hey, is this the time? Let's go try it. The kids are sleeping through the night. They're in high school. Let's give this a try. And that was actually encouraging to me. I could see... if health goes well and a lot of factors go well, I could be in a place in my early forties where I'm like, all right, I'm now ready. Expertise has caught up and I'm not exhausted yet. So let's try it. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:absolutely. And I think you don't want to know, this is another thread when coming to chat with you guys that I was thinking about. I don't really want to know how hard it's going to be or what's ahead because I bet it's going to be hard enough that I would shrink from that if I knew. Right. But I don't know. And I take it one day at a time. And so far, the last six months getting to a service offering that I'm really excited about, that customers are also really excited about, I seems to be finally getting there. Right. But it's taken a lot longer, a lot more effort, a lot more pivoting and exploration. It's very similar, actually, to where I started. But I don't know that I would have started down this path if I knew what the last six months would be like. And I assume the next 12 will be really tough as well. So yeah, there's some ignorance is bliss maybe that can be positive as an entrepreneur. Just take it one day at a time, understand the problems, work through them and just keep.
SPEAKER_00:This was probably incorrectly attributed, but I find it interesting to Chen Shinhuang from NVIDIA that if he had known that the 25 years it took to get to this, I say in quotes, overnight success, massively successful company. It's not that he wouldn't have done it, but it would have He does not regret that he did it, but he would not have done it. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think my dad feels the same way with building a really successful, very large enterprise. I'm not sure that he would do that going back and reliving his life, but he's learned from it and it's added value.
SPEAKER_00:That's really good. The final topic that you kind of put on here is just, you were touching on it earlier, but self-awareness being a superpower. I'm curious how you've seen that play out for yourself and colleagues over the years.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we did touch on this a bit. I read a while back the book, Your Brain at Work. I don't know, have either of you encountered that book or read that book? So the reviews are more mixed than I would guess, actually. But I think it was one of the most influential books for me. And he builds this whole metaphoric sort of universe to give you a sense of your mind and talks about the director, essentially, and how you want to develop this awareness of what is going on in your mind, what you're thinking, what's happening. I recently started using the Waking Up app and have really been enjoying that. And it fits in with the exact same thread, which is learning to be conscious of what I'm thinking and feeling in the moment. And, and one that like, for example, putting my kids to bed, I've been the one doing this for years and I can get very, very frustrated at times when, you know, the 27th time somebody has called me is wanting something like I've taken care of all the needs. It's been three hours. Why aren't you asleep? Right? Like what's, what's going on. But when I stop thinking, and am deliberately aware of how I'm feeling, I can't really be angry or frustrated while examining that I'm angry and frustrated. And that doesn't mean that it's primarily a tool to manipulate how I'm thinking and feeling, but it lets me actually be more deliberate, more in control of what I'm thinking and feeling, just being aware of it. Just being conscious, raising that up, whether it's stress or good feelings as well, and wanting to replicate that being present in the moment. So I think when we get stuck, a lot of this for me is tied to a lack of being conscious of what's going on in my head.
SPEAKER_00:That labeling, and this is for me has come through therapy and reading a lot on this topic of I am upset right now. I am sad right now, like being a little bit obvious, but just or I'm really feeling good because I had a success at work, like just calling it out in my brain. It does something that I don't know if it creates pathways, but it creates little moments in the day where I'm pausing just for a moment to recognize what's happened. And I don't know, I think it makes for a more interesting life than to just be on autopilot through everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And hence the name of the app, right? Waking Up. It's about like waking up and not being sort of a zombie in the flow, but actually experiencing life more fully, being more aware in the moment.
SPEAKER_00:So Arlen, how can people find out about you? If someone heard this and they want to just connect for any reason, or if they see the potential for working with you on their business, what are ways that people can reach you? And what does that initial contact look like?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So, I'm probably most active on LinkedIn. I'm also part of the Bureau of Digital and involved there a bit, which is a community for agency professionals, not just owners or service providers, but any kind of agency professional. The Bureau is a great place. really friendly, welcoming community. So I can be reached either of those places. I do have a website, agency.partners, where some of the lessons I've learned, I'm publishing there. I have a big guide on agency health for free there. I'm not behind any enter your email address gates or anything. So that's out there. But I would love to chat with agency owners who are looking to get from point A to point B and don't know who can help them get there. It may well not be me, but I might have a good recommendation of somebody who can help them in the area where they have a problem or need. And then anybody in the fractional space who's building their business and would love to chat with somebody else who's on a parallel journey, I'm happy to chat that way as well. LinkedIn is a great way to reach me.
SPEAKER_00:And maybe to state the obvious, the reason Lance and I have really just appreciated connecting with you and being friends No, I definitely don't. And you bring a quiet, calm approach, which is, I'm curious about your business. I'm curious about what you're dealing with. Let me ask a bunch of questions. And then you take your experience and you'll go dig deeper and kind of come back with what you view as... a discussion point that you can have with the person, right? Like, here's what I've noticed. Here's what I've seen. Here's some things that I think will make sense for you. Let's talk about it and see what actually matches. And I just want to say personally, I appreciate that quiet, confident approach you have. And that is not how many people handle it, right? And I've appreciated that about you. And I think that is a really great thing for someone to be aware of if they're considering working with someone, which is you're not going to just tell them everything they're doing is wrong. You're going to say, what's working well, what can be working better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and for most agencies right now, even in my target market, I'm probably not a good match for them, right? But I might know someone who is and happy to make those connections. That's a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Feel free to email us, email at fractional.fm. We'll be back in your ears, I don't know, soon, probably a week or so. Have a great day, y'all. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
