Fractional
Fractional
Vicki Yang: Leading with ‘why’ vs. chasing money
Today, as we continue our collaboration with the Fractional People People community, we're joined by Vicki Yang. Vicki is a Fractional People Leader, and she shares her journey of working fractionally while relocating to another country. In this episode, Vicki dives into the dynamics of fractional work, the unique opportunities it presents, and the challenges that come with it.
We explore:
- Fractionals vs. studios vs. large agencies – which model fits best?
- Defining and finding your ideal customer profile
- Leading with purpose vs. chasing revenue
- Business development strategies – leveraging your network to secure fractional work
- The joys and challenges of working fractionally
Tune in for a candid conversation on making fractional leadership work for you.
Connect with Vicki: LinkedIn
Learn more about the FPP community: https://www.fractionalpeoplepeople.com/
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Fractional Podcast. I'm coming to you with my co-host Joshua and we have a special guest today, Vicky, joining us from the Fractional People People community, continuing our collaboration there. As we get started today, Vicky, you are a Fractional People leader. You're not a consultant, so I'm curious to how you differentiate the two. Tell us about that and tell us a little bit about who you are and where you're coming to us from today.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I call myself a fractional people leader more than a consultant because I feel like a lot more of the work I do is actually where I'm embedded with the team and I'm actually doing the work. I think consulting a lot of the times is coming in, it's maybe project-based so you know really quickly when you're going to, when things are going to be finished, you're leading. potentially, you're project managing it, you're advising, but not necessarily doing all of the work. Or in some ways, maybe you can't, you might be creating one thing and then kind of like taking off. But I think in large part, what I typically do, and I, because of the way I work, I'm a very relationships-based person. I am better suited to actually being basically a part-time HR person for people. So that's largely what I do along with like a little bit of coaching.
SPEAKER_01:One of, a project I really enjoyed years ago. I came in as a consultant. And what I did was interview the employees on the project and understand their problems. And then I wrote up a report saying what they said, gave it to leadership, and leadership was over the moon excited and happy. And all I did was use the employees' words and give it back to them. And the employees were happy because they got to actually build what they'd been begging to build forever. So it's interesting that... That was great. I kind of gave the plan and then walked away. And then the employees actually got to go make their thing. That distinction, yes, consultants have value. There's a whole world for where they matter. But I do like to get my hands dirty and build things. And it sounds like that's the space you've kind of made for yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that was one thing when I used to work at very large companies. Actually, I worked at nonprofits to begin with. Very tiny nonprofits. The kind that had to ask for money, not give away money. And then... went into very large big tech companies and then moved into startups. And that's where I realized I love building. I love figuring out how we're going to make something work and part of the nonprofit piece when you don't have enough resources, which a lot of small companies don't. And so after having kind of gone through that, scaled companies, led HR, I'm like, I want to help smaller companies build something faster. Because a lot of small companies typically... will hire their first hires like a recruiter. Maybe they get an HR manager because they don't have the money for a head of HR because they don't need one full-time either. But what they do probably need is like the strategy that a head of HR has, that kind of experience. And so my goal has been to find the companies and basically be both the strategist and the doer and the builder. And so right now that's largely what I focus on.
SPEAKER_02:And then as opposed to someone who says, hey, I'm looking for a part-time job, you're building a portfolio of multiple opportunities that you can then stack on top of each other? Or are you really kind of filling in just one client right now? Or how do you see the ideal workload for someone in your seat?
SPEAKER_00:That's a really good question. I have... Two main clients that I would say I basically run all of their HR for. And that is more than enough. One, because the context switching gets really difficult when you have too many clients and you're like, because people problems are all kind of similar. You're like, okay, who did I talk to? I shared resources. I built something. Okay, wait, how does their system work? What did I build over here versus what I built over here? And so I've got two clients that I do that for. And then two that I am probably more of just a part time person. They need an extra pair of hands and someone who has the experience. They don't have to go and like train this person to do HR things. And very quick, like if you tell me, OK, I need I need you to do a pay equity scan of this document or I need you to build comp bands for me. That's all you have to tell me. And then I can go and do it. Or I know the right questions to ask to, you know, get stuff done. So I think it's kind of the mix of like both acting as the head of HR for clients and then just doing basically part-time HR work. But I have found I've got to be careful with how many clients I take on. So right now I've got four. I think three to four might be that sweet spot. Any more than that and it starts to, one, you run out depending on how much time you're spending with all of them. And two, the complex switching gets really difficult.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. This actually leads into something that I've been kind of curious about. So I was reading this kind of meta analysis of fractional over the last couple of years. This is going to be a whole tangent, but it comes back around in a second. You had fractionals coming through and offering subscription services, and some still do. We've interviewed several. They have great businesses they've been running, which kind of took the air. And I'm talking more about designers at the moment, but the application fits in other areas. What started to happen is people questioned, how in the world are you working with 20 clients? You must be doing something that seems a little bit iffy. And I think you're kind of getting, you're addressing the question there, which is, well, a human cannot context switch that deeply and still do the job they want to do. I've noticed for myself when I was full-time fractional, six clients meant a lot of money, but it meant a very stressed and worn out person. And One client meant not very much money and the work was easy and I was stressed out for other reasons. So that three to four person spot, I found three to four clients was the sweet spot for me. And it sounds like that's where you are liking landing as well at the most.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think it's because I do such different work for each of them. Like if you're doing all of HR, there's so many different things. But let's say if I was just doing compensation. then maybe I could see why I could take on six to whatever, 20 clients, right? Because if I'm doing the same thing over and over, it's less context switching than say, I've got employee issues over here. This one is trying to set up new states. That one needs advice on how we're going to set up a performance management process. So I think, yeah, it depends on the work, but I agree. There's trade-offs to more money versus like, okay, one client and now I'm going to figure out where the rest of my money is going to come from.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I'm also curious, do you find yourself working with other HR team members or is it generally you're the one HR person they can afford and you execute everything that you strategize yourself?
SPEAKER_00:Right now, I'm half and half. So because I primarily work with clients who are like 20 to 50 employees, 100 at the most, Um, it's, I mean, usually they're only HR person. Maybe there's like a recruiter, uh, that also works alongside me. And then the ones where I'm like more part-time, then, then there's like, there might be an HR team. Like one of my clients is over a hundred people and they have an HR team, which also makes that dynamic different and also more fun.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Interesting. Cause there is a limit to how much you can accomplish. When, like you said, you're responsible for all the parts of the function. Right. And you can't really delegate anything.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Delegates should back to me.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Or maybe managers, which then I have to chase down and get stuff done.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay. So the second part of my introductory question was, where are you based? You have a unique story about where you
SPEAKER_00:are. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm no longer in the U.S. That's where I was born and raised. My husband and I moved about two years ago to Panama. So that's where I am now. So it was we had always wanted to travel more. And the goal originally was in 2019 was to take some time off, maybe spend three months in like different locations and then and then come back to the States. And then the pandemic happened. So no travel was going to happen at all. And then we were like, okay, spend, you know, however many years, I mean, COVID's still a thing, but like major shutdowns were like, what if we just moved? Like life's too short. Let's go see what's out there and figure out like what other cultures are like. And so made a giant spreadsheet and decided Panama was going to be the place we landed. And that was also kind of what forced me into fractional was the ability. I still need to work. We still need money to be able to pay rent, food and all that. And so decided, okay, I'm going to try this. I've always talked about it. And maybe it was good that I didn't think too hard about it, just talked about it and made it a reality. Because I think if I had thought more deeply about it and planned, I might not have done this. And I've gotten a year under my belt right now and it's so far still working.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. So my wife and I have this probably annual conversation about moving out of the country. We've been doing this for a decade. So this is... I'm curious, what was kind of the decision point for we're actually doing this now? This is a whole other thing, like going from dream to reality.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not going to get too political, but politics does play a role in it. I think how I was feeling inside the United States also led me to this decision. I felt like I was missing community in some ways and wanting... Like, and realizing that my own identity was so tied up in my work, right? Like we were, I was living to work, really. And there's so many things about the US where I'm like, gosh, if we just had universal health insurance, where would everybody be at this point, right? And so I'm like, well, there's other countries out there that actually do these things. And maybe I should go and go and see what that's like. And instead of living to work, work to live. And the decision, I think, was largely tied to, one, I was in a good spot to be able to leave my job. There was good timing. Politically, the country was going through a lot. And I'm like, why not now then? If we don't do this now, when are we going to do this? So we took the leap. We sold 99% of our stuff, house, car, all of it. Because the other thing was, I know I'm very privileged. I have the money to be able to do this and take this chance. We were like, okay, we've got enough for a year. Worst case scenario, I come back, we come back to the States, you know, find jobs in the States again, and then live that life again. But let's just see if we can make this work outside of the United States.
SPEAKER_01:What's the summary so far?
SPEAKER_00:It's working. So now our new plan, are we... I'm usually a person that likes to sit still, but for some reason I'm not sitting still anymore, which maybe is a good thing. But we really love Panama. Lots of really cool things here. Great country. I don't speak very much Spanish. I'm still learning. But my family is actually originally from Taiwan. And so we were back there for a month. I'm like, oh, my God, I ended back in 20 years. I loved it. I'm like, could we potentially move to Taiwan? And this is now, I think, where that original idea of like, could we live in different places for three months at a time to just explore the world? Also, while we are still decently healthy is now coming into play. So now we're like, all right, so how do I make my business work over there? Because the time zone's the challenge. But it's kind of a fun problem to have.
SPEAKER_01:We had Lee sweat on sometime last year, I think, maybe the year before. And he now travels with his wife and a kid, and they bounce between Europe, Hawaii. mostly Europe and Hawaii. And the reason is he'd rather not be in America. He'd rather be at halfway opposite time zones of his clients so he can work in odd hours and spend the day with his family. And so that was kind of an interesting way. He loves Portugal and he loves Hawaii. Taiwan would be a bit of a stretch, right? There's a little bit more there time-wise. But since he told me that, I've pondered in the back of my mind, what if? And that's so cool to see that you're experimenting with that yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Just to... I think, again, I've found myself trapped so much in a traditional way of thinking about work. And the fact that fractional is becoming more of a thing right now and the gig economy is becoming more of a thing, right? We've got content creators and influencers and people are holding more than two streams of income. They've got their job, but they're also doing other things. It's interesting to see where that might eventually take people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Joshua, you were in our pre-show kind of floating the idea of like, where do we think fractional is going as part of the bigger picture here? And I think between AI and fractional agency, traditional agency business models are likely to struggle in the future, right? Our mutual friend Arlen Bird and his agency partners podcast was I think, you know, bringing that out, right? Like there's a fractional armed with AI can do an awful lot of what an entire agency was doing for people.
SPEAKER_01:I was reading this article about, you know, large agencies used to be the answer. And Lance and I have been part of, let's say, some medium-sized agencies. And then fractionals jumped out onto the stage a couple of years ago and addressed a lot, but it's not perfect. And now it's kind of this question of what if two, three-person studios using AI could account and accomplish most of what the agencies used to be doing. And I'm just very curious to see where all this goes. And also, you think of the macroeconomics have many people out of work. That's all so interesting. I'm curious where Fractional will fit into all this going forward.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, especially with the number of layoffs happening and like, okay, let's say the economy gets better at some point and things stabilize. But We go through these cycles and there's a lot of real fear now about, okay, I might get laid off at any time, especially in the United States when your health insurance is tied to work. What do you do? How do you make sure things still stay afloat?
SPEAKER_01:One of the things that I think about is I've got two young children. They're middle school aged and I'm trying to figure out what can I offer them to live in a world where they're going to be able to thrive and exist and the I'm coming up with question marks more than answers but that's okay it's like I've still got a little bit of time to try to inspire and help them and part of the answer might be being creative in many different ways right like I when I was a child the previous generation would work at a place for 40 years now I grew up in an industry where you're going to work at the same place two or three years but you'll be compensated very well I don't know that either of those are going to be an option for my children. So it's kind of interesting, like what's coming next. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's, that's such an interesting thing to think about because I've gotten, I don't have any kids, which is also what makes moving around the world a whole lot easier. Um, but you know, I've gotten nephews and nieces and it's this wonder where things are going to land for them. Uh, what skills should they be learning right now? And we're, and there's a, I don't know, the way we're being creative about things is also changing. Like even with AI, how are we still holding on to some of that? How is it potentially hurting some of that? And what are we doing with AI? And I don't know, there's just so many, I agree, a lot more questions than answers.
SPEAKER_01:Where I'm currently headed is I'm more worried about juniors coming into different fields, right? Because that type of work is quickly being replaced by AI or will be, right? AI is the worst it's ever going to be. seniors probably will be able to finish out their careers. The question is, how do, let's say one of my kids wants to get into this field and industry, what would I suggest to them to get started? So that's the piece I'm trying to figure out. And obviously this podcast isn't to solve that, but it's something I'm wondering about.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Vicky, you mentioned your relationship to work changed, right? How has, I'm trying to set up this next segment for us here. How about your relationship to money in terms of being an entrepreneur versus being an employee? And I mean, you don't seem to be like a super risk averse person, right? Moving to Panama, exploring to Taiwan. Right. So tell us about like getting into fractional and and how you thought about money in those like early days.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. So my security is heavily tied to cash. And it's funny that you think I'm not a risk averse person because I don't think I am now that I've done this, but I was. And the scariest thing I think was leaving that full-time job. But we had done so much of our homework of like what it would look like to live in Panama. How does health insurance work? How does healthcare work? How much money do we actually need to make this work? Again, I'm super lucky. I actually worked for a startup that got acquired by Google. So I have that cash as the backup and not a lot of people do. Like a lot of people who go into fractional are kind of forced into it because they're laid off.
SPEAKER_01:So there's runway leading up to it, which is actually one of the pieces that seems to be a consistent thread through most people we talk to, which is this fractional can work if you have runway. If you don't, it's gambling and it might pay off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And for me, having that runway was super helpful. And having my partner who was also there to remind me, like, we have that runway. And like, he'll help me do a lot of that planning piece to say, okay, so we have this runway. How much do you think we need to make? One that would count as like a successful first year. And how much do we think you need to make to say, okay, we're going to try this for a second year? And so having planned at least those pieces out gave me enough, like having that number in my mind of like, okay, this is what I've got to work with. That's all I need to, you know, this is the minimum. That's all I need to worry about. So having those goals was really, really important. And I think when you talk about like the relationship with money, again, moving out of the country also helps. So my rent, my food, electricity is still probably the same because it's Panama. But a lot of that is so much cheaper. And we kept telling ourselves, this is a year-long experiment. Let's see what happens. And again, knowing that my relationship with money is that I need to feel secure with it, having those numbers. I also got a financial advisor who told me, hey, here's what it would look like if you were to retire at this age. Here's how much money you need to be making each year if you want to have this much when you're done. Again, I had all this like, planned out and had these numbers in mind so that I knew what I needed to do. And then I knew where then the, you know, when you pull the, if, if I had to pull the rip cord when I need to pull the rip cord and, and when we would go back.
SPEAKER_02:Hmm. Um, what were some of the things that you needed to identify to like really be clear about what you were trying to accomplish versus like just trying to make sure you had enough money?
SPEAKER_00:Um, You mean more in terms of the work I wanted to do? Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:like maybe your ideal customer profile or why you were doing what you were doing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think the reason I wanted to go into fractional work or the reason I always said I wanted to kind of own my own business or do consulting before I realized what fractional was, was I really wanted to help companies set up a foundation. where like a people ops foundation where they could treat people like people, where we were trying to do things to make things more equitable and inclusive and make it work. Because I think I've just been in too many places and especially during the pandemic, I'm watching like some of the decisions we make and then all these layoffs. I'm like, we don't, I don't think we actually need to do everything we're doing right now, but we're doing it anyway because investors have told us we have to hit this money, this dollar amount. And I'm like, I can't, I don't want to do that anymore. So my why for wanting to go into fractional, I think was always there. And then knowing that that was like my mission was to help smaller companies build better foundations so they could work more effectively and succeed while still being equitable was my main goal. And I think that was because that was such a strong value for me. I found the energy to keep going or to try this. I think figuring out what my ICP was took some time because I'm like, I want to do this. I don't know what it looks like exactly, but I'm going to go and do this. And then it was this, okay, wait, who actually needs my help right now? What size company? And thankfully, I have a friend who does seed investing. So he ran the exercise he usually does with his founders of like, well, who do you think your ICP is? When do you think people need HR? What kind of HR do they need? So he coached me and asked me all these questions. And thankfully I talked to him really early on and I was like, Oh, okay. So here's, I'm looking at companies of like, you know, 20 to 50 typically is when they hire like a real HR person or I shouldn't say that when they hire someone who understands strategy more. And, you know, these are the industries that I probably want to work in. These are the ones that I don't and, and figuring that out. And then there was also the, the figure out of like what I actually wanted to do. Because part of the reason for leaving was also, there's work I don't want to do that in HR. So here's my opportunity to try not to do those things anymore. Like compliance, sure, I can do compliance. I hate compliance work. So how can I be doing more of the work that I like? So again, that I am working to live and like engage in the stuff that I'm doing. It's definitely been trial and error, but it's been fun figuring that out.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's so fascinating when you've gotten to this point of autonomy where you're choosing clients based on the strengths you have and not the areas of weakness or areas you're not interested in. And you'll then be kind of ruined as a W2 employee because you're like, well, no, why would I do this? This is dumb for this company. Wait, what? No, we're not going to do that. And I think it's a fascinating experiment to take someone who's been doing that put them back into a W-2 and have them continue to carry those characteristics, they will be appreciated by some people, but not by others. So it's interesting to move between the two.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's, and it's funny again, because it's like such a, I feel like being a solopreneur, there's so many complex emotions that come up and it comes in these weird cycles. So just at the end of last year, one of my contracts was ending and I'm like, oh gosh, what am I going to do? I also don't like business development, by the way. which is terrible because you need to figure out how to do that if you want to do this job. And so I started looking at W-2 work again because I'm like, well, maybe, maybe I just go back because it's safer, it's easier. Maybe I'll find someone who will hire me in Panama. And then as I was looking, my husband was like, do you really want to do this? Like, do you want, let me look at this list of stuff they want you to do. And I was like, no, you're right. And then one of my contracts came, got renewed. And I'm like, we're fine. Nevermind.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Speaking of business development, this is like a common thread right on this show, right? It's the hard thing. What is, what has been like some of the most powerful things for you in like finding some of those first opportunities?
SPEAKER_00:So I, I of course automatically reached out into my network. I think it's, Luckily, I worked at a startup that got acquired because what happened was like after a couple years, all those people went elsewhere. And so my network and potential opportunities got much bigger. Two of my clients are from that network. So there are people that I'd worked with before who brought me in. And then the other two, I just started applying to part-time HR jobs, actually, with companies that I thought looked interesting. And I figured, going to apply and then if it has to be who I am I will say hey I'm not in the United States but maybe I can be a contractor because do you and if you're going to hire part-time anyway does it matter um and so one of the jobs I found actually through Indeed just randomly applying and then another one um I was LinkedIn is like my new Facebook page I'm on it every day and just making connections with people. So I found my other role through that and applied through that. So that was a little bit more, a little slightly warm lead. But I think my biggest takeaway was really like, well, just go look for part-time work because fractional at that point, I think was still kind of growing, especially in the people space. It wasn't as common yet. Now I think it's definitely like getting more exposure, the word fractional, people are starting to understand more. Although I think a lot of people just also interpret it as like, a part-time person, which is really what we are. But we're cheaper because you don't have to pay all the other overhead.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And typically more strategic than the part-time employee that you can plug in, you know, just for the sake of headcount.
SPEAKER_01:Fractionals come in with an attitude. They're like, well, here's how I run my business. What are you doing over here? And for the right company, that's exactly what they want. They want someone with strong opinions who's going to help them think strategically.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02:One of the things that's been kind of cool in doing this collaboration with FPP is about the concept of community. Because a lot of solopreneurs end up quite alone, right? Especially I can imagine an expat person living in another country, not speaking the native language. Isolation can be a real big thing for folks that are building a digital business. Yeah, tell me about... How does that relate to your story there too? And how has FPP been a big part of that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so, so true. I think I, so I started kind of building everything in December and then luckily I found FPP in February, but as I was doing, I'm like, who do I talk to if I have a question about something? Like HR wise, I had an HR network I could ask HR questions to, but not about kind of being a solopreneur. And I forgot, again, actually, it was through LinkedIn, thankfully. Oh, no, it was a newsletter, ChartHop's newsletter, where I found FPP. I'm like, okay, great. I'm just going to go check out this Slack channel. And it was life-changing. I think the lonely... Because, again, I'm a relationship-based person. I'm trying to find jobs and... not knowing, like, is this right? Like, am I doing this right? What are you doing? Like, how do I find a contract? How do we create a contract? And the nice thing about FPP was, one, it was all HR people. Because I found a different group called Fractional United, which is a very big group. Really cool that you can see all these different people doing different things. What I liked about FPP was, one, it was all people people. It's smaller than Fractional United. And it was about abundance too. I think when, I think there's this like, we get lonely, but at the same time, there's also this fear of like, are you going to take my opportunity? Even though we don't want to think that way. I think people, people will, will usually not think that way. But when you're in this space and money matters and it's, you know, it's not a regular paycheck anymore, that those doubts kind of creep into your head. And so finding this place that one, had a lot of people who, I guess, questions too, not just about business and clients, but also about HR stuff. who were really fun to be with too. And so just like, it's like the coworkers that I don't really have necessarily in the other places, even though I do, but it's still not, I still don't because I'm only fractionally with them, developing as deep relationships as I would be if I were full time. FPP has become kind of that space for me. And I honestly don't know what I'd do without them because it's, it is interesting. Such a lonely solopreneurship. It's lonely and confusing.
SPEAKER_01:That's part of why Lance and I started this podcast, because we're both doing this fractional thing. We're incredibly lonely. We're running across like, I just had this weird contract issue with this client. Who do I talk to about this? It's interesting. When I was doing full-time fractional design work, I felt incredibly isolated on my own all the time. And I was looking for design partners. The ironic thing is working as a W-2 around other designers, you still feel kind of isolated. So you're kind of defining this middle ground of people loosely connected to each other, but not in a hierarchical way. And it sounds like that for you has been a pretty sweet spot.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny when you say like the co-working thing too, like we do actual, we'll do virtual co-working sessions where we're not even talking to each other, but we're like in the same room, so to speak, like a Zoom. And just having that other body there, like, I don't know, it's just, it's an interesting, it's going through this has also been interesting to understand, like, as people, what are we looking for and, and what do we need in order to operate too?
SPEAKER_01:And since COVID, some of us have been isolated for years, right? Not spending time around other people. And I've been incredibly privileged that throughout all of it, I've still got my wife and kids. So even if things are a little bit quieter or there's not as much going on, I'm still having human interaction. And my brother, he actually works abroad as well, works for a US-based company, but he travels between Europe and South America. And he has this thing of isolation where he'll go to any coffee shop or any co-working space just to be around other humans. Otherwise, there'd be, without that plan, there'd be no need to ever see someone for weeks on end. You can have Uber Eats delivered. You can do all these things. And I don't think that's what us, we as humans are meant to live like that. I don't believe that's a healthy thing long-term. I
SPEAKER_00:agree. Definitely not healthy long-term. We need each other.
SPEAKER_02:What advice would you have for somebody who's kind of dabbling in the idea of, you know, maybe fractional's next for me. Like, Looking back over your own experience, what are some of the things you wish you knew when you started? Yeah. What would you say to someone who's like, hey, should I do this or no? I
SPEAKER_00:would say definitely, definitely look at the numbers and figure out like what amount do you need, you know, to make a year worth. Figure out because I think that number is the most important because in that you figure out what you need, like is it the rent, food, health insurance? Like how are you going to make some of that basic stuff meet the basic needs? And then I would say, if you're thinking about it, try and do it alongside your current W-2 job. Test out taking a project. I know the ask is hard because there's so many companies that are also like, just give me your whole life, right? People are working maybe probably more than 40 hours a week, really, which is also something I wanted to stop doing. But if you can, maybe if you're trying to take on a coaching gig or take on one small project with someone, First of all, to see, to go through that cycle of like, oh, okay, doing a contract. Do I like doing this work? When you're not embedded in the company, what does that feel like? Because some people may not like it. Like we might think you would, but maybe you don't. Understanding even how to go get the project too. Like, do you like BD enough to do this?
SPEAKER_01:So I was telling my wife the other day that I was second guessing something I did a while back. And I've talked about it on the show. So I got some fractional work. Part of it, thanks to Lance and these contracts were looking really good. They were growing out. They were looking amazing. And I got a W-2. I landed them all at the same time in the same month. And I quit the W-2 on day three and went all in on fractional and proceeded to have the biggest financial months ever in my career. It was the highest highs of my life. Until four months later, it went to zero. And stayed at zero until I got another W-2. And looking back, I got hired. It was a great role. I really liked the team. And the design manager basically pleaded with me to stay. She's like, hey, I know that you're doing fractional. I will work around whatever you have because I want you here and I think you can be a great part of this team. And I couldn't see a way to do both. I was so stressed out. I wasn't sleeping. I was so overly worked. I just walked away. And looking back, I don't know, maybe that wasn't the right choice because ultimately I landed back into a W-2. And so I really resonate with your advice about if you don't have the runway, probably keep the W-2 and find a way to do fractional so long as it's not a conflict of interest. Because there are so many ups and downs in any area of life, but especially in freelance type work, if you don't have business development where you are able to see what kind of stuff will come in and have a way to control it. Otherwise, it's a rough ride.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think that was one thing is, you know, are you okay with income that's not going to necessarily be stable? That is going to come in waves. In the work that I do, I got lucky that I found kind of what I call my anchor client. Like it's the client that's basically the contract's never going to end as long as I'm doing my job right. Yeah. And that gives me the security because that client actually thankfully also covers all my living expenses. Then everything else is icing on the cake. So, yeah, thinking about if you do have that much runway to be able to just quit and do it. At the same time, though, I would say because I hear different things. I got one year under my belt and that's great. Year two is looking like it's going to be pretty solid as long as all my contracts stay in place. I've also heard after year three things might. like fall off because a lot of the times people are finding their work through referrals versus like regular bd and then your referrals kind of run dry so i'm like okay i feel really good if i can get past year three though i think then this is solid
SPEAKER_01:you'll have some established there i'm curious what uh you talked about running the numbers and spreadsheets let's say that someone is As a W-2 role, not to say$100,000, their salary, right? They work in tech, they have$100,000 as an easy math. Are you trying to divide that up between four clients or are you trying to double that or get 50% more than that because you're accounting for the loss? What's a way that you try to run the numbers when you're making those decisions?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so what I did was... because that was the other thing I didn't think about until I started was like, you've got billable hours and then you have all the hours you still need to do for your own business. And so there's lots of great templates and worksheets out there that you can use to kind of calculate it. But I did, how many hours do I want to be billing a week? And then taking into account like, okay, 30% for high loss, for benefits, for granted benefits, My benefits are much cheaper down here, but like all those other extras that you don't have anymore, right? Money to put in your 401k, like things like that. And then kind of just did the math from there of like, okay, how much money then does that, do I need to essentially charge to hit that number? I
SPEAKER_01:found in tracking my billable hours that I had a few weeks where I hit 30. hours, billable hours, and I was the most worn out I'd ever been in my career. Because if you're running a business and hitting that amount of hours, you're not going to, I can't last very long and have any kind of life outside work. So even if you run some kind of a retainer where it's not based on hours, I think it is so valuable to figure out your hours internally to know what you're capable of. And I found when I was doing full-time fractional that, you know, 15 to 20 hours was much more reasonable than Which then means you still have absolutely a full week because of all the other things you're trying to run.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And for me, because of the work that I do, I can get closer to 30 because most of my contracts have no end date.
SPEAKER_01:You're spending less time on new business.
SPEAKER_00:On new business. But if I had to spend more time on new business, then that would definitely change. But even now, with like 30 hours a week, it definitely, it hits limits.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm really tired. I have so many meetings with like four different clients and I'm like, I don't even know where my brain is at this point.
SPEAKER_02:Where can people who are interested to follow along in your journey, your travels, hear what you're doing, where could someone find you, learn about you? What's the best way for all the new fans you're going to get from the show to keep up with your life?
SPEAKER_00:Definitely. I mean, come find me on LinkedIn. My website is victoriayoung.com. That's probably the easiest way to find me. And like, I'm so excited for people who kind of are wanting and thinking about this because there is a lot of freedom in doing this. There's a lot of challenges in doing this, but if you can make it work, it can be some of the most, it can change the way you live your life, I think. and change how you look at stuff. But again, definitely not for the faint of heart. You need that stability. I totally hear you. And then, you know, that W-2 is probably the best thing to do right now. But I also think we're not stuck doing this. Like, you know, you can always move back and forth. I think people also forget that. But another piece of advice I give is if you are going to try it, like, you know, dip your toe in. But if you're really going to do it, go all in for at least six months and try and do it. Because if you don't, your heart's not in it. That means things, it may not work because you're still like half in, half out, maybe looking for something else.
SPEAKER_01:I love that way of thinking about it. And I currently have a W-2. I've had to pull away from being full-time fractional. And what it's given me though, is this level of autonomy of, well, here's how this thing should, be done because the market says this. I'm not just going to follow what someone tells me for no good reason. And that can get you into trouble if you're not at the right place. But if you are at the right place, that level of autonomy and freedom you've experienced can fit in really well. Not everywhere, though. So just be warned, you might be running yourself for the future.
SPEAKER_03:Fair
SPEAKER_01:enough. So I'll wrap with this. If you have any questions for Lance and I, email at fractional.fm. Feel free to reach out to Vicki. We'll put the links in the show notes. And we'll be back again soon. Thank you so much.
