Musical Lyrical Lingo
We're Musical Lyrical Lingo!
Join Tim and Lj who delve deep into the wonderful world of musical theatre and more importantly the lessons they have learned from different musicals.
Join them as they explore some of the greatest musicals ever created, from the classics to the new and exciting shows that continue to teach us something new.
So whether you're a seasoned fan of the stage or a newcomer, this podcast is for you.
So sit back, relax and get ready to immerse yourself in the world of musical theatre.
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Musical Lyrical Lingo
Funny Girl
From troubled production to Broadway triumph, Funny Girl's journey mirrors the resilience of its protagonist, Fanny Bryce. We unpack the fascinating story behind this semi-biographical musical that catapulted Barbara Streisand to stardom while exploring why it remains both beloved and structurally flawed.
The musical's development reads like dramatic theatre itself—multiple directors abandoning ship, Broadway luminaries turning down roles, and a young Streisand fighting to save the now-iconic song "People" from being cut entirely. This backstage turmoil eventually gave way to a production that ran for 1,348 performances and produced some of musical theatre's most enduring anthems.
What makes Funny Girl eternally compelling isn't just its showstopping numbers or star-making potential, but its exploration of the personal cost of success. When Fanny sings "Don't Rain on My Parade," she's voicing the defiance needed to break boundaries in a male-dominated industry—a theme that feels remarkably current despite the 1920s setting. The bittersweet conclusion reminds us that professional triumphs often come with personal sacrifices, as Fanny's marriage collapses under the weight of her success and Nick's wounded masculinity.
We also dive into the references that modern audiences might miss—from the Barrymore acting dynasty to Jelly Roll Morton—and examine why this show had its first Broadway revival only in 2022, sparking the controversial transition from Beanie Feldstein to Lea Michele. Through it all, Funny Girl remains a poignant celebration of individuality, talent, and the courage to pursue one's dreams regardless of conventional expectations.
Whether you're drawn to its historical significance, its unforgettable music, or its surprisingly complex themes about gender and success, Funny Girl proves that some stories, like some stars, simply refuse to be dimmed by time.
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Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts.
Speaker 2:Tim and LJ. Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello, hello.
Speaker 2:I love your wee hellos.
Speaker 1:I do that quite often don't I, I think it's become a bit of a Catchphrase. No, no, I'm not choosing to do it. I think I just naturally can.
Speaker 2:It's almost like me it's like one, two, three testing One, two, three, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Or like me gearing myself up to go, here we go. Oh, I didn't like that. No, no, no, no, no, no, as in, let's go All right, let's go. Yeah, like lights, camera action, that, that moment, like when the curtain goes up, especially if you're preset behind it and you're like you know that moment you go, here we go. No turning back now. So that's, I think, what my hello hello is like oh, curtain show time, welcome back we've. We've come back from a couple of weeks rest.
Speaker 2:Well, much needed rest.
Speaker 1:Much needed Such a busy year. To be honest, Hamilton pushed me over the edge and I just had to kind of take a couple of weeks off to recover from it. To be quite honest with you, Needed to recover from CJ's dagger. She was throwing you I know, but, honestly, the number of people who have like said, oh my goodness, cj's just like laura, oh really. And then what was it? Um, oh my goodness, the child's gonna get such a big head, isn't she? Um, she's so, um, not eloquent, but articulate articulate.
Speaker 1:That's what it was. She's so articulate and I was like yeah she's more articulate than the two of us put together, like how embarrassing. Yeah, so well, she'll never be on again, we're not going there. But yes, no, we are back. Yeah, and we're back in the midst at the time of recording, uh, in the midst of an absolute heat wave. Not necessarily here anymore, although we've been lucky enough.
Speaker 2:Muggy. Is that a Northern Irish word, though?
Speaker 1:Muggy yeah so for our listeners who aren't from Northern Ireland, muggy's like when it's warm but it's not necessarily sunny, and it kind of you kind of feel like the layer of cloud above you is closer to you. Do you know what I mean? It just feels very muggy muggy and claustrophobic and like heavy.
Speaker 1:Yes, feels like you're under a duvet yeah, that's a perfect way of describing it. Yeah, well, the heat wave in England has caused absolute havoc. So the West End was brought to a halt by power cuts during the heat wave. I didn't hear about this until today. So they were absolutely powerless and a number of shows either had to cancel their performances or pause their night. So parts of the London's West End was brought to a standstill after a park had disrupted performances.
Speaker 1:So Clueless, the musical had a 15-minute show stop as a result of the disruption, while Operation Mincemeat I am dying to see that, you know hit a number of times by the outages, eventually went on to cancel. At the Fortune Theatre, hercules, your favourite, just across the road from Mincemeat at the Theatre Royal Drury Lane, they cancelled their performances. Other shows affected by stops included Mamma Mia, phantom of the Opera, cabaret Tina, the musical which eventually had to Cabaret Tina, the Musical which eventually had to cancel its performance, and Stranger Things. The First Shadow was also cancelled a few hours before Curtain Up. I would have been livid.
Speaker 2:No I know Completely.
Speaker 1:Imagine if you had planned a trip, but what can you do? Oh listen, that's what it is.
Speaker 2:It's live theatre. What needs to happen is we need to go to London, because last year there was a massive heatwave, and then that was whenever Caitlin was over, because the boys, the Shamrock Tenor boys, were performing in New. Delphi, and she was, I think she had to go buy new clothes. As much as I'm sure she's delighted that I'm divulging this.
Speaker 1:I think that was just an excuse to buy new clothes. Yeah, and she said it was disgusting, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we were there two days later and we were like it's really not.
Speaker 1:And you also had to go and buy new clothes. So I kind of think, I kind of think it's a ploy that you sisters have I buy new shoes. You sisters have I'm wearing shoes. It's different. It's different. You're not happy, regardless of what the weather conditions are?
Speaker 2:I just brought the wrong shoes.
Speaker 1:However, congratulations to Les Mis and Evita. Oh yeah, Because their performances went unaffected, so there you go.
Speaker 2:That's some theatre news. I have seen some ensemble members on the socials who literally look like they're just melting as they're putting their makeup on.
Speaker 1:Like you know what those West End theatres are like. They are old. Like most of those buildings are really really old. Most of the dressing rooms are really really tiny and windowless, like you can only imagine Sweatbox Yuck Disg. You can only imagine Sweatbox Yuck. Disgusting, absolutely disgusting. Other exciting news from my good friend, marisha Wallace.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:She has announced that there's a new album coming our way live in London, and it'll be released on the 15th of August. It was recorded live at the Adelphi Theatre in March and the album's going to feature a selection of musical theatre songs and original numbers, which is interesting. And another exciting piece of news to end this week's theatre news is I've got my eyes on a new musical oh tell me all in the works. New musical Mona Loser.
Speaker 2:Mona Loser.
Speaker 1:I know I think you're gonna like this. Okay, there's something about it. I'm just going. We need to watch this one. Okay, so it is by the two strangers. Carry a kick across across New York. New York writers. So musical writing duo, kit Buchan and Jim Bourne, are having four workshops in the Southwark Playhouse from the 16th to the 19th for this new musical. So it is a contemporary musical set in the music industry about viral fame, fakery and identity, and it draws inspiration from Mary Shelley's Frankenstein and modern monsters created both on and offline.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sounds good, doesn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1:And I love Two Strangers the soundtrack, so I'm going that could be an interesting one to look out for so there we go that's some exciting things it is exciting, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love whenever there's a wee new musical on the horizon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose our musical this week is about the fame and what kind of comes with fame? Yeah, in a way. Yeah, the monsters it can create or not create.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the monsters that can that it attracts yeah. And how people can turn into monsters when they maybe don't want to celebrate your success.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go. What are we doing this week? Funny Girl.
Speaker 2:Funny Girl, yeah, yeah there we go?
Speaker 1:What are we doing this week? Funny Girl, funny Girl. Yeah yeah, funny Girl's a funny one for me.
Speaker 2:Funny Girl is a funny one. It is a funny one and we're definitely going to discuss that.
Speaker 1:I think it's funny to me because it's sad I kind of You're left going. Oh God, I hope she'll be all right. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like it's not a, it's not that, it's not a cheery musical, in that there's obviously parts of it that are you know and some numbers that are really upbeat and very, very iconic in the musical theatre world. But you just kind of go storyline-wise you're a bit like oh bless her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think. Funny Girl, the title makes you think that it is going to be a laugh a minute and you're going to see a lot of this girl being funny and we don't, but I'm going to talk about that, I think later on. So score is by Jules Stein, and we know that name from Gypsy, and Gentleman Prefer Blonde.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:So there is definitely a Gypsy-esque feel and a Dolly-esque feel. These are three musicals that you've probably grouped together yeah Lyrics by Bob Merrill who did additional songs for Gypsy and also Breakfast at Tiffany's.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The book is then by Isabel Lennart, and that was like my first musical lyrical angle.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:This week I learned loads about her.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:Like loads and loads, so tell us about her, then so she, I'm going to say, was an amazing lady and I think amazing in that she was very ambitious. I obviously didn't meet the woman. I don't know if she was.
Speaker 1:I don't know her.
Speaker 2:I don't know if she was lovely, but she did start in the mail room at MGM.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:She eventually made her way to then be secretary to Richard Sher in Metro Studios, but it was only because she had started a union as the male whenever she was in the mail room. So she then became the secretary and then from there she was known as kind of the script girl because she helped people get scripts and brought scripts to people and and consulted on a couple of scripts.
Speaker 2:She was also succeeded with the communist party so there's a lot like in her life, so much so I was starting to like really delve into it. I was like you know what I think I'm gonna. I'm gonna pause yeah, I'm gonna do this on a separate day because okay I was like there's a, there's a.
Speaker 1:I think I'm going to pause. Yeah, I'm going to do this on a separate day because Okay, I was like there's a story in there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a film or a TV series or a musical.
Speaker 1:Write a musical about Leonard.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I thought do you know what that was?
Speaker 1:one ambitious strong woman yeah.
Speaker 2:And nothing wrong with going from mail room to the secretary.
Speaker 1:She worked her way up, didn't she?
Speaker 1:yeah, excellent. So funny girl is the semi-biographical plot uh, based on the life and career of comedian and broadway star fanny bryce and that was my first musical, uh, lyrical lingo. I didn't realize that fanny banny Bryce was actually a real person. Featuring the plot obviously features her stormy relationship with entrepreneur and gambler Nicky Ornstein, which makes so much sense now in you know what's that song? Don't Rain On my Parade. When that big line where it goes, hey, Mr Ornstein, here I am. It's like oh, that's who she's singing about.
Speaker 1:The musical's journey from concept to opening night was almost as eventful as its subject the rise of 1920s. Ziegfeld Follies, theatrical star Fanny Bryce, now film producer Ray Stark, had a collection of taped interviews from his mother-in-law, fanny Bryce. At first, he commissioned a book adaptation of the Conversations, which he then reportedly reportedly reportedly paid 50,000 US dollars to have withdrawn from sale. Next, a long line of Hollywood scriptwriters failed to shape the material into a biographical film. When a screenplay eventually met with Stark's approval, it was read by South Pacific star Mary Martin, who suggested do you know what? This material would actually be brilliant as a musical, not a film.
Speaker 1:So, once persuaded by the idea, stark must have been very tenacious, because the list of big Broadway names that turned down or abandoned the project read like a roll call of the great and good mary morden herself. Yeah, she had the idea, but she was like it's not for me, boys um, stephen saund time, dorothy fields and carol burnett, and a lot of them. Part of the reason was they weren't. They didn't think they were jewish enough to play this role. Yeah, fanny Browse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Fanny Browse, she was an American and she was known, as you said, in like Siegfried Bolle's time and she created the top rated radio comedy series which is called the Baby Snook Show, and she was a funny girl. Yeah, she was a comedian. But, yes, mary Martin contacted Stark and then Sondheim and Jill Stein. They were approached, but it was Stephen who initially said that he didn't want to work with Mary as she wasn't Jewish. He said I don't want to do the life of Fanny Bryce with Mary Martin. She's not Jewish, you need someone ethnic for the part. And Martin later then withdrew and Carol thenernie, as as you said was approached, but she said no, you need a jewish girl. And then a jewish girl was found yeah, who was that jewish girl?
Speaker 1:that jewish girl was barbara flipping streisand. Yeah, yeah, um, so it jill. Eventually, jill stein was signed as composer and Bob Merrill as lyricist and Jerome Robbins as director. Yes, but at that point they didn't have a star. Robbins knew of Barbara Streisand from her first hit show. When you hear this for a title, I can get it from your wholesale Like what a terrible title, right. So she auditioned for Stark and was given the lead, providing her with the first of several iconic roles that helped define her extraordinary career. You know, this kind of was the start of it, and then all these you know Hello, dolly and Yentl. Like. She then became big, didn't she? Even with the creative team and the perfect star in place, the show had a very long first out of town tryout. The Broadway opening was postponed five times. However, that whipped the theatre community into fever pitch of anticipation.
Speaker 2:The creative team had a bit of a nightmare, or was a bit of a nightmare yeah, and I think that this is whenever you research the amount of people that were originally attached to funny girl and then how many creatives it went through. I think this is where Funny Girl sort of sits on a lull. It's because of this Still a bit of an issue, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Still, yeah, Still disjointed a bit. Or, like we've mentioned Gypsy and we've mentioned Hello Dolly, it just lacks something that those other shows have. Like you kind of feel it should be on par with those musicals, but there's just something. There's a dip or something that's just for me not there, but I couldn't tell you what it is. I can't work out what the missing ingredient is, but you just expect it to be as good as the other two and it doesn't quite hit the mark for me.
Speaker 2:Did you know Bob Fosse was also signed on to the act?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Robbins had an argument with the book writer Isabel Lennart and told Stark he wanted her replaced because he thought she was not capable of adapting her screenplay into a viable book for the stage musical. Stark refused, so Robbins quit the project. That's right, hence Bob Fosse was then brought on. Yeah, so he signed up to direct Funny Girl. Work began again until Fosse quit. Yeah, so then he quit and the show went into limbo for several months until Stark then hired Garson Kinnan.
Speaker 1:Yeah until Stark then hired Garson, keenan, yeah. So Streisand was not enthusiastic about Keenan as director and insisted she wanted Robbins back, especially after Keenan suggested people the big iconic number people was cut from the score because they didn't think it fitted the character. Now the intensity of Fanny Bryce's feelings are demonstrated in those two extraordinary songs. People is one of them where Fanny Bryce reveals her loneliness and yearning for normality. And then Don't Rain on my Parade is the other iconic number, which is that stirring anthem to independence. How could you cut either of the like? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:And this is where I think Barbara Streisand is very clever, because then, because of the you know, she really believed in especially people, because I think she felt that that did give the character of the film you know know more heart and a few layers to her um. She then recorded the album yeah and then so much so, even now, when people do, now, there has been as many productions of funny girl, as there have been other musicals, but as soon as and people have played an overture, people applaud that's right they love it.
Speaker 2:Anybody loves that song.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was it. When Kanan tried to get it cut, stark, she had already recorded it as a single and Kanan was told it has to be in the show because it's the greatest thing she's ever done. Yeah, and then, as you say, people had heard it. So then, when they heard it in the overture, like it was rapturous um response. Um, when it opened in the schubert theater, uh, boston, it was too long, even after 30 minutes had already been cut, so leonard then continued to edit her book and deleted another 30 minutes. Stry's. I'm still unhappy with Canaan and was pleased when Robbins did return to oversee the choreography of Carol Haney. Now, I'm sorry, you see, if somebody was brought into a project to oversee my choreography, I like what would you do? Imagine being Carol Haney and, like Robbins' return to the project to oversee? Yeah, there was more to.
Speaker 2:It wasn't there. I would love to see your face. If that ever happened, you'd be like I'm sorry, sorry, what, what.
Speaker 1:And like I don't think I'm precious, I don't think I'm like a precious creative, but like I just think yeah it's really rude, isn't it? Another thing that I learned that blew my mind, lauren, was that, uh, kanan's novel Smash what is based loosely on his experience of directing Funny Girl. So Smash. The TV show is based upon the book Kenan's book, and it's based upon his experiences of directing Funny Girl.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:I know like my brain went what, what, what, and only in one of the last couple of episodes didn't we talk about the like shocking closure of Smash on Broadway. Oh my goodness, this is so weird. I know why Do you think the connections come to us? Because we're looking for them.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? Like no, it's just getting too freaky now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, that's so strange.
Speaker 1:I couldn't. I was like shut up. Smash is based on Funny Girl. Don't even Like, like how, what? Yeah, I want to read that book. Now, though. I want to read Smash.
Speaker 2:Okay, I, I'm going to read that. Yeah, okay, cool.
Speaker 1:So there you go. I know I thought you'd like that. I was like what I can't believe it. So Broadway production. It opened in March 1964 at the Winter Garden Theatre and then subsequently transferred to the Majestic Theatre and then the Broadway Theatre. So the show was ultimately a triumph and ran for nearly three years, enjoying a run of 1,348 performances. Streisand reprised her role in the West End revival at the Prince of Wales Theatre in 1966 and then went on to star in the 1968 film of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but she felt pregnant when she was in West End so she wasn't in there for very long. Rightio, I'm sorry, I'm just sure they did take over. I have forgotten her name. Yeah, it was nominated for eight Tonys. That's right, yeah, and the album was inducted into the Grammys Hall of Fame in 2004.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It then only had a West End revival in 2016. This it then only had a West End revival in 2016.
Speaker 1:This is it Like I went. Sorry, what? Surely no, I was like I went. No, there has to have been a revival before that.
Speaker 2:And that was with Sheridan Smith.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it was a really great performance. Absolutely, it was in Savoy, wasn't it? It was in Savoy, yeah, and again they did a proof shot of that. They did, and again they did a proof shot of that they did. And it used to play quite a lot, but I haven't been able to find it since. But I'm sure it's out there somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it started in the Meunier Chocolate Factory. Oh, that's right, sorry. And then transferred, but the entire run at the Meunier Chocolate Factory sold out within a day, I know, making it its fastest selling show on record.
Speaker 2:And Sheridan was great in that.
Speaker 1:Stunning.
Speaker 2:She was fab, and then I do know that she was perfect.
Speaker 1:And she was perfect actually for it. Yeah, because she could give the laughs and then she ripped your heart out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was great.
Speaker 1:She did have a period where she had to go off for a while and her illness was just as good, but then she did come back to it, it was great for her performance and I think at that point it was a mental health battle that she was having and it's only when you read into the musical more I went oh my God for her to have been dealing with that yeah, personal mental health battle and to be playing a role like fanny bryce. I was like I totally get why that taking time off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you couldn't you couldn't do yeah you couldn't um and then we only had a revival in 2022, broadway that's right and it caused a bit of controversy.
Speaker 1:Holy moly.
Speaker 2:But I can't believe that that is the first revival since 1964. It's so bizarre and it must be because Barbara is so iconic in that role and also the film.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then you could say that about Hello Dolly.
Speaker 2:but then I think Hello Doy is a better show, like there's more to hello dolly than funny girl yeah, um so originally in 2022 it there was buzz and it was some of the similar creative team from london yeah we're opening it in broadway, so people already knew this was a smash yeah, across the Across the Water. It's going to do great. It hasn't been in Broadway so long. People love it. Yeah, you know, and we've got Bernie.
Speaker 1:Bernie Feldstein, yeah, and Raman, I can never say his name. Camerly.
Speaker 2:Camerly. Yeah, and again, she is a comedian.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was great, but there was mixed reviews, very, very mixed reviews.
Speaker 1:They received mostly negative reviews. I think you're being kind.
Speaker 2:Because, well, they felt that she had the comic timing but lacked the focal range. Yeah, and this is where you need you know, but when we were talking about sally in cabaret, what is it you want from the main character? Yeah sally meant to be a fantastic singer yeah is she meant to be a cabaret singer, and and I'm not dissing cabaret, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the same with Funny Girl.
Speaker 2:Is she meant to be the comedian or is she meant to be the powerhouse singer?
Speaker 1:But Fanny Bryce was a Broadway star, wasn't she?
Speaker 2:Just because she was a Broadway star doesn't mean she was let's say the best vocal.
Speaker 1:Aye, but you would have thought she'd have been.
Speaker 2:But she could have been the Broadway star and the comedian.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe, yeah, true, yeah true. So Bernie then went off and then Lea Michele replaced her and there was a whole load of nonsense and you don't know what to believe really in it. You know she was sent Lea Michele like sent, you know, public messages to Bernie on social media wishing her luck and all the rest of it, and it seemed to be that she was very present socially throughout it. Yeah, I mean, I think.
Speaker 2:Do you think Bernie was holding the seat for Lea?
Speaker 1:No, I think producers very quickly went uh we've made a mistake here, okay, and I think Leah had expressed an interest to a producer or some producer that's also how Glee ends and they yeah. Well, this is it. It was like her turn was like parallel to her Glee character where Rachel Berry lands her dream role in a Broadway's fictional first revival of Funny Girl. So, like publicity wise, like brilliant and, to be fair, michelle's turn in the show turned the declining box office numbers around and it received critical acclaim in the show turned the declining box office numbers around and it received critical acclaim in the role, with universally positive reviews, including many citing and I think this is not fair. Many did cite superior vocals compared to her predecessor and that's not fair. There was also a very quick cast recording done.
Speaker 2:Which is so shocking, because it's very hard, I think, to get a cast recording, yeah, which I just think that that should be standard, I agree. I think that if you're in a show, you get to cast record.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because why not Like? Why would you not have a copy of you singing those songs that you're doing?
Speaker 1:It shows a week out, a thousand percent.
Speaker 2:So it was strange that there was a cast recording done of the original and then, whenever Leah takes over, we're going to do another one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. Now fair, the cast recording was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 2000. Oh no, was that? That was the original? The original cast recording was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame. It's interesting, isn't it? Like Funny Girl, because any other year, like Funny Girl would have been right up there for the awards and stuff like that. But as it worked out, where is it?
Speaker 2:It was only one, wasn't it? One, two, three, no, yeah, so, like for most, One Tony, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, like for most Broadway seasons, a show as popular as Funny Girl would be expected to sweep the boards. So at the Tonys. But in 1964, there was stiff competition from.
Speaker 2:Oh what.
Speaker 1:Hello, dolly. Ah, so although Funny Girl was nominated for eight Tonys, they failed to win any of them, which is interesting. Similarly, in the Best Picture category, the year 1968, wasn't it? Yep, yep. What other musical film did it have to beat Oliver?
Speaker 2:Oliver, yeah, do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So it just it was up against it, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:I'm going to talk about that. I think I like Honey Girl. I like the story of Honey Girl. I like the music of Honey Girl. I enjoy it whenever I watch it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it lacks a lot and I think it lacks subplot. Yeah, fair, it lacks a lot and I think it lacks subplot. Yeah, it lacks a plot. B you think about it, there's it's all around family yeah, all the characters. You only ever see them when they are interacting with with her with family. Yeah, or they're talking about her. There's never a um, you know the mom's not in love with somebody. I'm just thinking of a really generic yeah, yeah, you know plot that could have been, or there's just.
Speaker 2:There's nothing else that drives the show no, and I think.
Speaker 1:I think for me certainly it's the beginning. At the beginning it's great, but it's very quickly loses its drive and loses momentum and pace. I find it's a bit draggy and I think it's because they also focus.
Speaker 2:So for me there isn't enough story like second of the storyline and there is too much focus on the love story and not enough on Fanny's career. And I think if they had made that love story something that comes out of the blue, whereas in not the love story, so the fall, the breakup of their relationship, where you're going, oh my goodness, I think that would be more impactful rather than sort of going, oh, he's getting a bit frustrated with her.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's affecting his masculinity. You can see it before and though sometimes that's, you know, we can see that in most like TV shows or whatever. You can read it, I think, whenever it's very obvious. It's just it lacks. It's a bit wet, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I agree, absolutely do. Shall we talk about what we've learned then? Okay, so.
Speaker 2:So, as I mentioned, I learned about that.
Speaker 1:We learned about Fanny Bryce as well being actually a person, being an actual person, Then in the song I'm the Greatest Star. Love that song.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mr Siegfried, here I.
Speaker 1:Am yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was a reference to Florence Siegfried Jr. He was an American Broadway impersonano.
Speaker 1:Imposario.
Speaker 2:Say that again. No Famous for his lavish theatrical.
Speaker 1:Revenues.
Speaker 2:Thank you the Siegfried Follies and the musical Showboat.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me Absolutely fine, absolutely fine In I'm the Greatest Star. Fanny basically talks about Her, yeah, and you know how good she is and everything that she can do, and she says listen, I got 36 expressions Too many. Yeah, sweet as pie to tough as leather, and that's six expressions more than all of them Barry Moores put together. So the Barry Moores are a prominent acting family with roughly around seven generations in the acting industry. Yeah, this blew my mind. So modern audiences like us, because we're modern, right, we'd recognise the likes of actresses. Drew Barrymore, yeah, and then older people would recognise, like Lionel Barrymore, who was mr porter in it's a wonderful life now, but the lineage of acting in this family precedes the last name barrymore and can actually be traced back 400 years that's amazing I know it's not mental.
Speaker 1:so by her saying she has six more expressions on the entire barrymore lineage together, it really is showing. Fanny is saying that her acting abilities are abundant and diverse because better than 400 years of lineage of acting of an acting family. But I thought, would you ever have thought when she's singing about the Barrymore she would have linked through Barrymore? No, there you go, that's crazy yeah. Wow, I love the word miffed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good word?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because she says because they're scared, I got such a talent. Well, I'm miffed Cross. Miffed, slightly annoyed and irritated, yeah, often due to someone's behaviour towards you, but it's a great word, isn't it, miffed? Slightly annoyed and irritated, yeah, often due to someone's behavior towards you, but it's a great word, isn't that, miffed?
Speaker 2:that's great. Um, yeah, I, I think that's where I struggle. Funny girl as in. I like that. She's like she's trying to get a job, but she's just not long-legged and beautiful like the, the other people she's up against, but actually her personality shank through and she becomes a really great star. And I think that there was more focused on that because the pregnant bride and then um, I can't remember the other um song that she does. Is it the general?
Speaker 2:yeah they're all hilarious. I would love more of that. Well, it feels like you just kind of skim past it yeah um in cornet man.
Speaker 1:Can I finish that? She sings about Camille. Did you know about the Camille reference in I'm the Greatest Star? So she says now can't you see, to look at me, that I'm a natural Camille. As Camille I just feel I have so much to offer. And Camille refers to the character Camille in the movie Camille 1936, starring Greta Garbo, and it implies a way of lounging about in a nonchalant or aloof manner. So the phrase is in reference to that iconic image of the luxurious courtesan Garbo plays in the film.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, I just thought it was a slang word for like chameleon. No, or she could just change into whatever part she needed to be.
Speaker 1:Well, it could be that too, no no, it's probably that one there you go Cool.
Speaker 2:Sorry yeah, cornet Cornet.
Speaker 1:The Cornet man.
Speaker 2:Jelly Wool Morton, and that is the slang name of Ferdinand. I can just say that name Joseph Lamothe, who was a highly influential American jazz and blues guest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she drops a couple of references to musicians in there. She also sings Hail Hoppa Choo Choo. In a moment's notice to play some dates with Billy Bates or Ragtime Otis Now, I couldn't find the Billy Bates that she was. Billy Bates or Ragtime Otis Now, I couldn't find the Billy Bates that she was talking about. But Ragtime Otis likely refers to Otis Saunders, a ragtime musician who is credited with bringing Joplin's ragtime to new areas like Oklahoma City and Memphis. Oh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Very good. The whole Cornet man could be the Cornet soloist in history or a reference to the fact that Cornet was the lowest commission rank in a Calgary, so she could be talking about how she feels like she's still in the lineup of everybody else.
Speaker 1:Didn't even think of that reference. Very clever, very good. You are woman, oh, I like that reference. Very clever, very good. You are woman, oh, I like that. I am man, so do I. It's lovely, isn't it? It's when you really like Nick.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know, Before he becomes a you-know-what, yeah Rhymes with Nick yeah, so they sing. Should I do the things he'll tell me to In this pickle, what would Nellie do? Nellie was a fairly common generic name for a lowly servant or skivvy, and she continues. Then in my soul I feel an inner lack. Just suppose he wants his dinner back. And I thought, oh, that kind of links in to that kind of lowly servant, skivvy, kind of yeah, I got style, yeah, I did bordelaise. Now I'm really stupid, but I didn't know, I didn't realize that what bordelaise was like? It's a sauce, isn't it? It's like a red wine and onion sauce. And then, honest to goodness, the next day I was sitting watching Sunday Kitchen or something and they were doing a flipping Bordelaise sauce. And I kid you not, I kid you not, Lauren. I'm like how is this even a thing? I'm in love with it when it happens. It was ridiculous. I was like well, where were you a day earlier?
Speaker 2:I don't know what you're doing. At Walsh you were doing your research, I know I learned then about a Norfolk suit.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that is a suit attire, in which a Norfolk jacket is combined with matching trousers to form a full suit, or sometimes known as a shooting coat. So you'd recognize it in, like old pictures. If you look up a Norfolk suit to me, I was like oh, that looks like a sitting.
Speaker 1:A shooting suit. That is hard to say that is very hard. I'm going to add that to my tongue twister. Yeah, absolutely, shitting sit, shitting sit. Oh, be careful.
Speaker 2:Be very careful. I'm not a shitting sit Sitting. No, I'm not.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm done, no, no no, I'm not adding that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was like do you know what I was like? Do you know what? I wish they would bring back those old-style clothing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you do see like there are elements of like old-fashioned, like creeping back in nowadays. Listen to us, granny and Granda, old-fashioned Shall we talk about? Quite possibly one of the most iconic musical theatre songs. Yeah, don't Rain on my Parade, yeah, don't tell me not to live. Just sit and putter Putter. And I love the way, certainly, barbara Streisand sings putter, putter Putter is to be humble. Yeah, I didn't know that. Did you know that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did know that as well, because a lot of the words and the way she said it it's they're jewish yeah um, and not that I'm jewish, but I I have like a, an interest in other people's religions but you knew the word putter means to be amble.
Speaker 1:Is that a jewish?
Speaker 2:no, no, I don't think it is, it's just the way she says it. Yeah, and then butter yeah, yeah, love it.
Speaker 1:Uh, terrain on my parade is obviously an English idiom. Yeah, to spoil someone else's happiness and enjoyment, don't rain on my parade. She also sings if someone takes a spill, it's me and Natcha. Take a spill means to fall down, so she's saying that if it all turns out to be a huge mistake, then it's only her heart in danger of being broken, so they really have no right interfering with her decisions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and I, until I realized what funny girl was about I never understood this song. Yeah, I always thought this song had very different meaning, but then whenever you see in context of the musical, it's like just let me live my life, just let me make the decisions and as you said, if I get them wrong, then you you I'll maybe it yeah, but I need to make this decision because if I don't, I will live with regrets, and I think that that's also a huge part of learning within Funny Girl is that Fanny did everything that she wanted to do.
Speaker 2:And she still, even though the marriage breaks down, she still says that she's going to be there for him, because that's who she is.
Speaker 1:She owns it, doesn't she? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I also think that we sing is very reminiscent is that the right word? Or reminds me of like the train scene at 42nd Street. I also think that we sing is very reminiscent is that the right word? Or reminds me of like the train scene in 42nd Street. Oh, okay, allentown Do you know what I mean. It's like no, I'm going this way.
Speaker 1:I love that scene in 42nd.
Speaker 2:Street, but I think that's where I was like.
Speaker 1:No, 1000 percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That was all my learning.
Speaker 1:I had one more. So Funny Girl, obviously the number Funny Girl. They sing. I know I may be all wrong. For a guy I'm good for a laugh. Now that kind of broke my heart a wee bit because she wants the boy but can't have him. He enjoys joking with her but is turned off by her physical appearance. In an interview barbara streisand said about the song she was good for a laugh but not for a lay. Yeah, and then she sings when the laugh is over and the joke's on you. Funny how it ain't so funny, funny girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What a way to end the bloody show. I know.
Speaker 2:So, I just kind of thought there is a bit of sadness at the end, because it isn't all roses and it doesn't work out the way you think it's going to. That's it it.
Speaker 1:But, as you've, as you've referred to, it is a celebration of personal resilience as well, do you know what I mean? And a poignant reminder of the cost that's often accompanied with success. You know, it explores those themes of self-acceptance a bit ambition and the importance of staying true to oneself. Yeah, so judge people by their accomplishments, not by their appearances. People.
Speaker 2:I think that's important and that still is true every day of the year, not just 1963.
Speaker 1:I hear you Don't tell me not to live, just sit and plod.
Speaker 2:Some great songs Do like it it. But just maybe a wee bit of a wee bit of an adaptation of the book, maybe, yeah, enhance it a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then it might.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It might just survive a bit longer, because it's it's not out there.
Speaker 1:I would love to have seen the Broadway revival.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:It's a very fantasy show as well, yeah, so it does have lots in it. Well, you see, this is the thing. Yes, it is at the beginning, and then all of that disappears and it becomes a bit slow for me.
Speaker 2:Apart from in the second half, is that when he dances, nick dances in the second half, yeah, after she dances nick dances in the second. Yeah, um, after she's like giving him money and then he's like sort of toying whether or not like but but yeah, no, I know I agree with you, but you know those big, those big like show, show biz numbers?
Speaker 1:you know that fanny's obviously doing. They disappear after act one, don't they? And it just becomes a bit of a slog for her. Bless her, god bless her any sad innovations um, listen, people, is unbelievable. Don't rain on my parade is unbelievable, and I do, like we've mentioned my other two. Just I'm the greatest star. I think it's a great show, or great number at the very beginning of the show. And You're a Woman, I Am man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also like. They're mine too, but I like the music that makes me dance.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, nice.
Speaker 2:Just a little bit of vulnerability as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and listen, I have to say Sheridan Smith was absolutely stunning as Fanny. And so say Sheridan Smith was absolutely stunning as Fanny, and so was Lea Michele Like you can't take it away from her. She is one of the best at singing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, powerhouse songs 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that don't rain on my parade. Like even when she did it in Glee, like you were like wow, wowee.
Speaker 2:I wish the pro shot of the Sheridan Smith one was available, but it used to be on BBC, it used to be on Sky Arts, but it's just not there, but if you get a chance to watch, yeah, I think I have it saved on my box, see. I thought I did and I went to find it and it wasn't there, so I must have deleted it.
Speaker 1:That's a shame.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I've got a little. What Would Paddy Do that will give our listeners insight into what we're doing next week.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay. So would you rather dance in Rat-tat-tat-tat from Funny Girl or seize the day from Newsies?
Speaker 1:Here we are back to doing clues as to what we're doing.
Speaker 2:No, it's not a clue, it's just everybody wants to know what we're doing.
Speaker 1:Well, it's kind of obvious what. Well, from my answer it'll be obvious too. Seize the day from Newsies.
Speaker 2:Even though rat-tat-tat-tat is a tap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think Seize the Day is a better number. Oh interesting, yeah, I think so. I'm just thinking Paddy's a bit old for a funny girl now, but Paddy's never played Dolly, has she? I'm just thinking of the shows that Barbara Streisand did. Yeah, that could be. Oh no, she's gone off musicals now, hasn't she Not?
Speaker 2:doing that. Maybe you could put her off and ask her.
Speaker 1:I'm not so sure Paddy's going to take my call.
Speaker 2:Sure Well that was fun, I enjoyed it. It was fun, I enjoyed it it was funny it was funny funny, funny girl yep, and we'll be back next week to Seas Day.
Speaker 1:Seas Day. I couldn't possibly work out what we might be doing next week, but we don't hide it from people no, I know so what are you getting all up in your high horse?
Speaker 1:like Well, because we used to give ridiculous clues, do you remember? Yeah, we don't do that anymore. No, I know we don't. Until this week there wasn't a clue. It might link into what we're doing next week, and one of them was for this week's musical and then the other one was for next week's musical. Right, we'll see. I rolled my eyes. I keep forgetting that we're doing a podcast and people don't see the eye roll. I just rolled my eyes.
Speaker 2:I so did. That was very dramatic.
Speaker 1:Me.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for listening. Please join us next week.
Speaker 1:It's going to be so much fun. Seize the day and come back and find out what we could possibly be talking about next week. I'm so annoyed I think we should change it for badness.
Speaker 2:Everybody's chilling in the wood, you phantom.
Speaker 1:This isn't what they said they would be doing a real dark opera one of your feared, feared musicals or something. Yeah, okay, until next week. Bye.
