Episode 93 - A Tale of...Apparently Many Cities (The City We Became)

Hello all, it's a new year and we are starting it strong with part 1 of a deep dive for The City We Became by N. K. Jemison.

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Transcript

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(upbeat music)- Welcome to a new year, new season, a new episode of the Reading Room Reference, your favorite library podcast. On this thrice new day, we are discussing our group Deep Dive for the Year, the city we became by N.K. Jemisin. We are recording from our library, In Jackson County, West Virginia. Zach is joining us as usual from Seattle, Washington.- Hello, hello. - It was so professional.(laughing)- It was the best one yet.- It was.- It was like really good.- It was so sweet, we love it.- Yeah.- All right, well, Carla, do you wanna read the synopsis?- I can try.- We're gonna try to have this one.- Sometimes reading out loud is like, not that fun.- I suck at it.- There's not much of a synopsis, guys.- What on good reads?- I mean, it's whatever.- No, I'm gonna read the book.- I have the book.- I know, but are you getting the synopsis from good reads, as well?- No, the book.- I was reading the book itself.- Okay. - Yes.- Not really a synopsis, probably.- Well, do you want me to read it, or do you want to go to good reads and get one?- I think we should go to good reads.- I don't wanna have a thing.- Okay, didn't want my Lord.- I'm getting it. - How about it?- Let me see here. The city, we became. Oh no, the description is probably the same, honestly.- Oh, okay. - Weird.- Well, no, usually they're different. It says, "Every city has a soul. Some are as ancient as myths and others are as new and destructive as children. New York City, she's got five. But every city also has a dark side. A roiling, ancient evil stirs beneath the earth, threatening to destroy the city and her five protectors until they can come together and stop at once and for all. I mean, this is straight up lies, right?- Pretty much, yeah. I didn't finish the book, I have no idea.- How much of the book did you get into? You know, at least there's more than five people.- And there's six people.- Yeah, exactly, that's one thing.- Maybe that was supposed to be a surprise.- Yeah.- I don't know what happened from the beginning. - It feels like it's the beginning of the book, yeah.- It's literally the first person you meet.- I know, I know.(laughing)- I don't get it. Huh, all right. - Yeah.- Well, the whole idea here, I guess, is the fact that there is, if a city gets big enough and old enough hasn't enough people in it, effectively it can come to life. And then there's this evil thing that is trying to kill the city in the book. That's the basic idea of the book. But there's five different people who are basically city avatars. One for each of the different burrows, you got like Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, and what's the last one, Manhattan.- Manhattan.- And then you've got, in this case, one more who is New York as a whole. Most cities apparently don't have this. They've usually just got one person. Other ones have had like more than one, but usually they've just got one person who is like their overall avatar. But in this case, we got five different burrows, plus the sixth one, which is all of New York. And it's about, this book is mostly about them coming together and trying to like stop the bad guy, weird, tentacle person from coming and destroying the city.- I think there was five burrows because the people in each burrow were so different.- Yeah, because each of the different burrows in New York are very different.- A person, yeah.- I guess that's the idea. This seems like something that is written in such a way that, I guess I should have looked this up, but I'm not sure if N.K. Jameson is from New York or something like that. She feels like she's spent a bunch of time there'cause she's got like this really, I guess deep knowledge of the city.- I was gonna say every movie or TV show or whatever I've seen taken place in New York, they're all very like, "Oh no, I'm from the Bronx." Or, "Oh no, I'm from this place."- Yes.- So like, they are very like separated.- Yeah.- I mean, it's kind of like here, it's like, it's Jackson County, but there's Ripley and there's Ravenswood, which is vastly different.- Yeah.- Attitudes or...- Mindset.- Mindset, that's a better word, mindset.- And then we'd also have like the country bumpkins.- City versus town.- Yeah.- And as Kim says, we cottageville girls.(laughing)- Hootlims.- cottageville is Hootlims.- Yeah.- I fit in so well.- All right, so what'd you guys think of the book overall?- I really liked it. It was not my vibe, which is why I've only gotten half way through.- I liked it. I think that's, I wasn't expecting it to not be your vibe. I also, I think what really threw me off was the frickin' tentacle things'cause it reminded me too much of worms.- And every time they would bring 'em up, I would literally get chill bumps all over my body.'Cause I can't handle, I cannot handle work.- Honestly, that's fair, 'cause it turned up as different things for all of them, which I thought was really weird.- Oh, grossed man.- So I'm just wondering if that's what it would've ended up being for you.- Probably.- I would've done it.- I would've done it.- I mean, one of them thought it was palm fronds. One said it looked like feathers. One said it looked like tentacles. One another one said it looked like, I don't know, really like tentacles, but something similar. Oh, seeing the monies was another one.- Oh, that's right, that's right. I see, I wasn't sure if they were actually looking different or if the people were just saying that it was different, but I think you're right. I think it does actually show up for different people. Yeah, Manhattan was the one who thought it was boring, right?- No, I think it was tentacles for him and actually New York also, like just New York in general. I think both of them saw tentacles.- That makes some sense. They were like the two most closely tied together ones.- Yeah.- I think that's what kind of like threw me off this book and I was like, no.(laughing)- The fact that it was like weird tentacles through you off the book enough that you didn't breathe.(laughing)- And the fact that they would come out of people.- Yeah.- That was a creepy thing.- Yeah, that was creepy.- That really...- You have all the things, you read all the books and then...- Oh my God.- Wait, why am I so sad?- Freak out enough you don't want to read a book.- Oh, I have physical reactions. I'm literally having show bumps on my arms right now. That's just talking to me. She's really hard.- Let me talk about it for a while in theory.- We can talk about the book.- We found heric.- Oh my God.- I can't.- It really is pretty bad, yeah.- The horror.- I can't deal with them.- I really truly can't.- That's funny.- I'm pretty sure that's how you could take me out.(laughing)- It's my fear factor.- Your fear for you.- Oh, I had one come out by the ground and touched my thigh once I freaked out.- Mm.- What a worm.- Mm-hmm.- I sent Mallory a video about it.- Oh yeah.(laughing)- Oh yeah.- Look at that.- Yep, sure do now. Oh man.- That was traumatic.(laughing)- I could deal with a lot of things with worms.- Not worms. Like, and this is coming right off of me reading the Kaiju Sturgeon Battlefield, where at one point in that book, there's a whole bunch of heartworms. Yeah, that part was rough for me.- And that's what made me like, what do you mean whenever Zach said that there was a pet tapeworm and you were like, I'm in, I was like, he was cute though.- No, 'cause he made me think of the Alaskan bullworm from Spongebob.(laughing)- Yeah, he's got that vibe.- And that's like, so like, he wasn't like, he wasn't the same thing, he wasn't the same thing.- Oh, I can't.- You're just goofy, but Kaiju Battlefield's surgeon was way grosser.- I don't see, I don't see any way.- It's just the heartworms that freaked me out in that one.- I can deal with gore, I can deal with dismemberment, cannibalism.- But it's the worms, the little worms.- Worms are the heartiest.- It's just kinda funny, I don't know.(laughing)- It is, it is funny.- It is what it is.(laughing)- Can't handle it, man.- I know whatever works for you, I guess.- It's throwing me off this whole book.- Katicoopy. Ah, anyway. So I like this book a lot. I thought that, thank you, Jamison, is like a fantastic writer just in general. I read one and a half of her other books. I haven't finished, I don't know why I didn't finish like the second book in this trilogy I was reading, but she wrote the Broken Earth trilogy as well, which starts with the fifth season. And her world building in that one is just amazing. And the characters are all really great. But yeah, she's just an excellent writer in general. And I think in this one, the main stand out thing was how each of the characters felt very different to the whole time.- Yeah.- You know?- Yeah. I thought they really embodied their burrows too.- I really liked, maybe it was Brooklyn, Bronx. I think it was Bronx.- Oh yeah.- The older lady, I liked her.- Yeah.- 'Cause she was like, "I got this."- She took a male that when she was sleeping in the cop when she was sleeping in her office. And she woke up in her hips.'Cause I'm like, "I can so identify."- Yeah, I really liked the age differences between them all. And I thought that she did really well, highlighting, but also making them believable, like all the age. And not even that, also Manny, how he wasn't necessarily a New Yorker yet, but he was already there, essentially, like he had the background to make him Manhattan. I thought that was pretty fun. I liked them.- Yes, and Manny was the one. He gets, for those of you guys who didn't read the book, and I guess Ariel. Well, she probably knows this part, Manny.- I was gonna say, "Mama didn't finish it either."- Hush. - What?- What?- Neither would you finish it.- I tried, because I tried. - Oh, my God.- I tried. - Call her out.(laughing)- I was tired. It's been kind of like, you know?- She didn't finish it all day.- Oh, and Christmas.(laughing)- Instead of doing her job, I see how.- I tried. But I will finish it because I'm almost done.- See, they're both legitimate reasons. You were exhausted. I was disgusted. I was exhausted.- I finished it, but I was up kind of late last night doing it,'cause I just book as long.- It's like pretty long. - It is long.- And I was afraid I would miss stuff if I skimmed.- Yeah. - Well, yeah, you probably would have.- Yeah, you would. - So, but you don't know what happens at the very end, which is kind of a big deal.- Yeah. - Okay, you can tell me. I don't care. - I can say, I don't know that I'm going to finish it, so.- Well, I was talking more about Mama here.- We can do that in the second half.- Yeah.- Part two. All right, so. - Climbers.- Yeah, let me see here. I pulled up like a synopsis. Oh, yeah, Manny, he's the avatar of Manhattan. He picks the name Manny just because it comes to him sort of when somebody asks his name, and effectively, he has lost all of his memory, but they're thinking that at some point beforehand, he had some sort of like a rough job, or he just did like weird beat people up type stuff. Shady things. - Yeah. Because he clearly has those instincts, but he doesn't know what happened. And he doesn't want to know who he was beforehand.- Yeah.- He doesn't even want to look at his ID, just to see what his name was,'cause he's fully on board with Manny as his new identity entirely.- I was trying to give him to benefit of the doubt, and like maybe he was special forces, but it doesn't seem like it.- He's really accepted it, because they talk at one point. He remembers a little bit, as it goes on, and he kind of just accepts the fact. He's like, I don't think I was doing dirty work for somebody, but I don't think I liked it, and I think I was coming here to start over and get away from who I was.- Yeah.- And so, I mean, that's just kind of how he felt about it. So, I think really, yeah.- I think when he talked to his roommate, when I like, at first he was like, you're kind of different, you know, and then after the whole thing in the park, he's like, oh, there you are.- Yeah.- And that kind of was like, oh, you was a jerk.(laughs) He was not a nice guy.- Yeah, I feel like he was like an enforcer, or something for somebody, you know? Did he feel like he was from, not the US? I got the vibe that he wasn't, right? Because of his roommate had an accent, but then he does it so I don't know.- I don't remember if it said where he was from, or like where he thought he was from.- Yeah, while I was thinking it was like London or something, but then it seems like no.- No, his roommate was like, no, his roommate was from London, or something like that around in there.- South London.- Yeah.- Yeah, yeah, but it's--- Which also had been raised.- His roommate was saying that they had stuff in common, so I was thinking maybe they were from the same place, but it really doesn't seem like that.- I thought it was from the Midwest.- The Midwest?- It kind of seemed like it.- I don't know why, but I just thought that, or like, I don't know, somewhere close, but not close, like Pennsylvania or something, like random like that.- Maybe.- So that's not like--- Don't know.- Yeah.- But whatever he was, he was very, very wealthy, apparently. Dude had Buku's of money.- Yeah.- We should have thrown down his debit card broker, cleared out that entire park.- No, 'cause didn't, didn't he though?- No, he threw down his credit card.- His credit card.- Oh, I thought he threw down all of his cards.- No, okay.- He held on to it 'cause he was afraid there would be nothing.- Okay, all right.- Yeah.- I thought he just threw all of his cards down, his and his roommates.- No, he threw down some money and stuff, and then the credit card, and then made a bigger dent in all the little white wormies, but.- Yeah. Okay, so the taxi cab and the umbrella.- I thought that was hilarious.- Oh my gosh. That was absolutely hilarious. I, and also--- I'm trying to show off my children.- And also, the taxi driver just went along with it.- Yeah.- She's like, yeah.- This is stupid, but okay.- His roommate did too. I mean, it was just like, whatever.- Did they?- Okay, did they say in the book, why some people?- Nope.- Saw all these things and what some did.- 'Cause they're more closely attuned to the city.- Yeah, basically.- It was kind of just, it wasn't really a known fact, it was just like those people are more likely to want to protect the city, or more deeply invested, or have like deeper roots with the city, which I mean, yeah, I kind of get that. I think that's a good theory to have.- Yeah, that's what it seemed like, and that's sort of how they explained it. All right, so we've got the five burrows, and we've got the main New York. And New York is like, he's this young guy who is, I guess he's homeless. He seemed like he was homeless.- Yeah, how could I say, he's homeless.- He's not being homeless.- Or an unhoused person. I think is the technical term now. But anyway, he is like an artist, right? And he does lots of graffiti-type stuff, but it's very, very detailed. And it's good enough that a lot of his art ends up in a, well, photos of a lot of his art ends up in, is it Brooklyn's?- Bronx.- Bronx is a museum.- Yeah. - Yeah.- So- - Gallery.- And, well, museum gallery, it's the same difference, whatever. Anyway, you've got the five burrows, you've got the Bronx, which is Bronca. She's the old lady. Basically, she works at this art gallery. And I guess she curates it, mostly is what she does. And she's also an artist too.- Yeah. - She's Native American too.- She is Native American. Which I kept, I don't know why, every single time I thought about it, I did not think of her as Native American until she like brought stuff up. And I don't know why that kept happening. But.- Yeah, okay, when I think of her, I always think Indian, like from Indian.- Like from Indian.- Well, there is one Indian.- But I know, that's a Queen's, right?- Yeah. - Queen's, Queen's, yeah. Which, I don't know why I would think that Bronx was Indian, but that's every time she talked, that's what I thought, that's what I saw her as.- Until, I mean, I had trouble like putting it together until she danced and the dancing, it was like, oh yeah.- I think, you know what I think it was. So the reader had an, gave her an accent, right?- Maybe that's it, yeah.- Like a Bronx accent.- I was actually reading the book.- Yeah, yeah.- Which makes sense.- Just like, it was so difficult for me to jive, like, you know, Bronx accent with Native American. Because. - Yeah.- I like, I mean, you know, in BD, they're always presented either as like with, I guess just like the basic ass, bland, nothing accent, or isn't like that wise old Native American person. Like the, like stereotypical one.- Yeah.- I have watched this video. It's on natives, talking about natives. And they're on, I can't remember what reservation they're on, but they're just talking around and some might person will come up to us and say, are you native? And they're like, well, yes, yes, I am.- And it's like, definitely the same.- Totally the same way they held themselves. It's like so funny to see them do that.- Yeah.- They were laughing about it.- Yeah, 'cause that's what we expect because we're uncultured.(both laughing)- But you know, I think that kept throwing me. Anyway, anyway, so that's the Bronx. The next one is, her name is Brooklyn. And she's Brooklyn.- Yeah, her name is actually Brooklyn Thomas.- And she used to be a, I guess a rapper, who went by the name MC, what was it? MC-something.- Was it MC-free?- I may have.- No. - No, it's all right.- MC, I'll look as you guys.- Yeah.- It's not MC Hammer.- No.(both laughing)- Anyway, now she's, now she owns two brown stones. She picked that stuff up for 60K, or her dad did back in the day, which is dang. Man, got lucky there. But anyway, she is like a city can council member now. And does a bunch of stuff with that. So she's like, fairly high up. She does well for herself.- She has a kid too.- And she has a kid and her dad.- Yeah.- And her husband died of cancer.- And then she's like, which is upsetting.- Mm-hmm.- But she's the only one that has children too, right?- I think so.- Well, no, she's the only one with, like--- They're like older.- They're like out of the house.- Yeah.- Yeah.- Yeah, Bronca has like a pseudo-adopted child thing.- And an actual son, 'cause she's--- Oh, that's right, she does have a son.- Is he California or something?- Yeah, he lives in California.- She was married at one time.- Yeah.- I thought she was married a few times.- Well, at least once.- Maybe.- Ooh, Bronca, I think she was only married once.- Mm-hmm.- And she swore off that, basically--- The last lady say that she could keep her exes around as in plural.- Oh, maybe I won't remember that part.- Just what I mean, maybe you didn't be married to have an ex, to have an ex-boyfriend or an ex-girlfriend.- Oh yeah, I get that, but the way they said it is sounded like ex-husbands or ex-wives or--- I'm not seeing them, then. - Whatever.- The next one is Queens, who has had many precautions. She is, I think she's, yeah, she's a grad student and getting her, I think she was getting her masters. She might have been getting her PhD. Anyway, it's in something related to mathematics and it's in finance, because that's what she has to do.- Something to finance in.- In order to like state it, but she's a mathematician. And actually her power thing, we'll talk about it a little bit later. I wish she would've used it more, but she didn't very much. - Yeah.- She's kind of a bummer. And then the last one is Staten Island, who is Islan, which is how they pronounce it in the book.- Islan Hulahan.- Islan, yeah. - Okay, I was pronouncing it aslan.- Yeah. - Well, it's got an A in it. I didn't know it was spelled this way, but, yeah.- They already don't like her. - That's Islan. So they all get names that are like what they are. So Island islan. - Yeah.- Anyway, and basically Staten Island, I didn't know it had this reputation, but it's like very-- - I didn't either.- Very right-leaning, and it's very xenophobic, so.- I knew that they were very like, we are us, you guys stay. But like, I didn't realize that it was like that at all. Like, I just kind of figured it was more like the snooty. And I thought it was more snooty instead of like, we're seeing a phobic. I mean, it's just right there. I mean, there's like a border around it, right?- Yeah.- But of water, but that is, that's literally it. It's like, if you didn't tell me this was a separate place, I would not even remotely know, so.- They hate that, I'm sure.(laughing)- I probably would.- Anyway, though. So yeah, I've never been in New York.- You know, it almost made me want to, this book almost made me want to go, and I've never wanted to go to New York because I just--- Oh, I want to go.- I think it's just-- - No one to go.- It's too fast for not knowing what I'm doing.- Yeah. - So it's like, I would have trouble with it.- No, you know, that was all good.- I get that honestly, like, I've been twice, I went for a school trip with choir, and then I went for my 21st birthday. And both of the times, it was like just a very fast trip. I would like to go and actually just like stroll around,'cause it was--- Go get a hot dog from a cart.- Well, I've done that, but--- That's the whole thing I want to do in New York. That's-- - That's it, yeah.- It was a completely different feeling'cause it was like, there were so many people who was overwhelming, but it's also like, nobody cares that I'm here. Like, it was a nice freeing feeling. Like you're in all this chaos, but you are allowed to just be yourself. Like, nobody is looking at you. Nobody is like waiting for you to move to do something like, bad or, you know, whatever, like mess up. It's just like, yeah, I'm here. So what? It was nice.- Well, this one almost made me want to go.- Yeah. - Not quite, but almost. Did anyone have, I guess, Paul's is a good word about how the bad guys were portrayed?- What do you mean?- Well, how often-- I think it's 'cause we don't often see, or I haven't often seen in books. I guess the division between different groups of people to the extent that--- And I know white people can be complete. So you can bleed me out on that one. But it's, I mean, it was like, gosh, like the perspective from the other side was like, wow, are we, are we?- I didn't think that was surprising at all.- No, no, I didn't. We're not all like that, but it's--- It's not like surprising.- Definitely there, like it's becoming way more prevalent.- It's not all men, but it's always a man.- Yeah, it's not all white people, but it's usually a white person.- It just felt weird for me to, I guess,'cause I don't see myself like that. Maybe I am, maybe I'm a complete, you know?- No, I mean, you're not like, okay, so--- The one, you're talking about when the lady in white possessed people or whatever and sort of made them worse or maybe not possessed in that case. But like, first of all, she was like, first met Manny, right?- Yeah, and she was embodying the care in, basically.- Yeah.- Yeah.- It just, I thought it brought out the really bad.- Yeah, well, it's what she says in the book at some point.- She says, she does, yeah.- And Islam's dad was a complete--- Yeah, and-- - And he wasn't possessed.- No, he wasn't possessed.- She said that.- She was, oh my God, that was the reason I couldn't stand Staten Island so much. She literally, I'm so sorry, but as a grown adult, you cannot hear somebody say, oh, I'm going to take you out. It doesn't really matter, but you're my friend. I don't wanna do it. I'm still gonna kill you and everything that you love and be like, it's fine, she's fine. It's not, she doesn't really mean it.- It's a, it's very leopardsic, my face.- No, you know, I screwed at my phone. Every single time she went through that in her brain and she did it multiple times, like straight up, walked herself right into being more and more stupid and it made me so mad, so mad.- I think that kind of came from her dad too, right?'Cause dad was like awful and her mom. Well, see, I didn't get that far, I didn't mean her mom.- No, her mom, I don't think her mom wasn't really like that.- No, her, she was the typical housewife of the time where she suppressed all her--- Yeah.- Intelligence and her beauty just so that he would feel better about himself.- Yeah.- Yep.- I think it's like, passed on to her daughter.- Me and Mallory have some strong personalities. It's hard for us to be like, why would you put up with that? Why would you tolerate that?- Oh, I don't think it's right, but I understand. Like, I know that there are other people out there that do, like--- She definitely did not have an environment. Like, she really stood up for herself, but it was in the wrong way. Like, she wasn't really standing up for herself, even though she thought she was. So it was, it was one of those things, it shows you how, thinking like that and growing up like that can go extremely wrong if you don't pay attention.- I think that's, I mean, I liked all the other characters, but I really did not like her. And I thought, my god, the one that I would identify with is the one I can't stand.- So I can imagine what it was like for people--- What does that say about your personal view of yourself?- Let's dive deep here. Let's get there beauty.(laughing) It gave me a perspective as like how Black people or any kind of different race is portrayed in some of our, especially early literature, how it made them feel. And I thought it was just a really, it's a good eye opener.- It is, yeah.- Yeah, definitely.- And it really does make you think about how important representation is.- Yeah.- Because, you know, all of these diverse people in this book aren't good people.- Yeah.- And they do good for others, even though they think they're not gonna make it out. And then satin on the whole time, I was just like, no, I don't care about any of you. Go away.- Yeah, I just did not like her at all. I got so mad at this book.- No, it's just so fun.- First, specifically.- And K. Jameson did, she was born in Iowa, but she grew up in New York City.- Oh, that makes sense.- So. - That's pretty cool.- That's the reason why she knows a bit more about it. But yeah, no, I wasn't super surprised by the way that people acted in the book because, you know, especially with social media and like everybody having a camera phones now. You see this sort of stuff happening all the time.- Yeah. - I mean, you got like those.- Like this is a very common thing that you see on social media.- Yes. - Yeah. But people yell at people.- No, no, no, no, no, no.- I mean, social media is like this.- Exactly what that lady did where she just records and gets up in people's faces and acts affronted.- Yeah.- Trying to beat people into like doing something.- Here's my camera in your face, but you better get out of my face, even though I literally have my hand in your face.- Yeah, exactly.- Kill.- People.- I don't know if you have a few of them like that, but not, I just don't watch 'em.- Yeah, no, it's pretty common and it is very frustrating. Or the same thing with like those, I don't know where they're called, the alt-art people or whatever the heck they're called.- Oh, yeah.- And they weren't like, oh, insane.- Yeah, well, actually, you just wanna hit 'em, I mean.- I mean, they're basically like the problem inside people. - In my opinion, it is acceptable to hit people like that.- Except more wealthy.- And not that Danny is.- I really do.- Just smack 'em in the face. It's like smack back in the eye.- I don't know if they're really good.- I would just settle for a smack, but.- What do you think about the cops, how they were portrayed?- The what?- I thought the cops.- I was surprised with how, generally positively, they were portrayed.- Except maybe her dad.- Oh yeah. - Oh yeah.- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.- But that's on Staten Island, where, yeah.- Again, apparently, everybody's a racist.- No, no, it doesn't count, it doesn't count.- I don't know.- I don't know how much of her prejudice is sneaking in to that one. Or if it's like legit, you know. I like his idea of it's like, you have your at-home words and you have your at-work words.- Oh my god. - But like really, I mean, there are people that think and do that. I mean, - Yeah.- 100% yeah.- Wild.- I have everywhere words.- Yep.- So it gets me in trouble.(laughing)- Very true.(laughing)- I don't know how you could, I just, I don't know how you could like have at-home words and then be conscious enough to not say them.- I do it all the time. I don't understand that. - I've gotten better at it and it's specifically only bleep words, like that's it. And- - Some of those.- Yeah. - I can do.- But unless I'm really worked up about something.- Yes, yeah.- You can definitely tell if I'm upset about something, but I also don't say them out loud. I repeat them in my brain a lot. Like bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep.- I say them out loud.- Just at a lower time.- I will, yeah. I will sometimes, sometimes they'll slip out and I'll be like,"Oops." - Or a message Mallory.- Yeah, I typed them out sometimes too.- That's also therapeutic, so it's nice. But that's pretty much the only, especially here. I mean, I, we don't really talk about anything crazy, and I'm like, "Well, this kind of crazy, I guess." I don't know, there's not really stuff that we can't really talk about here, that we want to talk about anyway. Like, we don't, we don't want to interact with patrons who speak like that. I mean, we have to sometimes, but it's just kind of like, "Okay, have a nice day." Oh my god, that just made me think of something.- Oh.- A certain patron that I haven't seen in a while.- Uh-oh.- No, I'm, oh.- It's not bad.[laughs]- He's one of those that talk like that.- Yeah.- So like, I'm not mad that I haven't. I just, I just realized I haven't.- Yeah.- Were you gonna say something, Carla?- No, I have no idea.- It just went away.- Anyways, the idea of this is being positive for the most part, especially in New York.- That struck me as odd.- Yeah, 'cause you see it in other forms of media all the time.- Yeah.- Like in movies and stuff, but I was surprised that it was like that in this book.- I wasn't, was it, was it, um... was it, Manny or was it New York? Who went to the library and was sitting outside and they made eye contact?- I think that was New York.- It was New York again.- 'Cause he ran half of that.'Cause I think that was like, I from then thought it was going to be bad for every encounter after that. And then it wasn't, so I was like, okay.- Yeah, I know.- 'Cause that was...- New York was definitely scared in general of the cops or like where he of them at least. And then I think that the view of a lot of the other ones were that cops were fine. They were just kind of useless.- Yeah, I feel like he has a right to feel that way though, being...- Oh yeah, a unhoused person, you know, and also being black.- But didn't one of the cops have the white stuff in that interaction?- Or am I...- No, I think...- Am I making...- I think he thought the vibes were wrong with one of them.- Yeah, there was like a whole thing where he was like, this isn't right.- Yeah.- Yeah, I mean, so the cops later on definitely did have a...- I thought, so it turned into like a monster like that.- Yeah, there was a monster thing that was shooting at him.- Yeah, that's what I...- I've read like four books since then, so I'm a little bit fuzzy now.- But yeah, I thought all of the interactions were gonna... It could be 'cause, I mean, I guess they were on patrol or whatever, but I just figured if one of them was basically all of them would be because they're precincts and everything. I mean, when they go back to their offices or whatever, do you wanna call those buildings? Like, they all are just with each other and I kind of feel like...- I choose to believe you.- That stuff is transmitted very quickly 'cause it was, I mean, it's spread like wildfire.- Yeah.- I choose to believe that Brooklyn 9/9 was a legit thing in this book.- Andy Sandberg.- I love that show though.- Not today, "Tenacles."- Can you imagine that?- That'd be funny.- That would be funny.- That's the book we need.(laughing)- Yep.- But we're right in K. Jameson, let's go on it.- Someone email her.- Yep.- That's the book we need.- Yep.- Okay, so sort of back on the individual characters again. We should probably talk about how each of these people are introduced.- Right.- Yeah. Like how they came to be who they are. Or just how they're introduced in the book. And like their first interactions with people I guess that, or like with the weird stuff.- Isn't that how they came to be who they are?- Well.- Pretty much it was.- Sure, if that's what you want to say.- Am I insane?- Anyway.- 'Cause you meet them as they are experienced.- Oh well, most of them, most of them, yeah. I think the other one you didn't is Brooklyn, right?- 'Cause she just is-- - Oh yeah, you didn't play music.- Strolled on the scene and--- With her music. I love her for that. I liked her a lot. I liked Bronco a lot.- Yeah.- Bronco was good.- I liked Manny though. I mean.- I love it.- Manny was good, yeah. I mean, they were all pretty fun characters.- Well, it's her name again. They're all very unique.- They're all very unique. And I could see where you would like her because of the math. I wish she would have done more. We'll get to her in a second.- I really wish that more would have happened with her. I liked her a lot. She was very sassy, but yeah.- Anyway. So I guess the first one was obviously New York. We meet him. I think he's the first one we meet, right?- Yes.- And he wakes up to the world and he's hanging out with Sao Paulo, who is one other one of the big characters in this 'cause he's the sous sao Paulo. And he was the first one, he was the one who was there to help New York, but like, you know, get through all of his burning pains or whatever because he is the newest city to come alive, I guess. What do you think we find out later on happened in the '60s or something like that?- I believe just when that one happened anyway.- I think so.- Yeah.- I think so, yeah.- I want to say this was said in the book. Anyway. But yeah, I think that was it. They met at a coffee shop at that time. But okay, am I right in remembering that they had, Sao Paulo had been visiting for a while? Where did he just find it?'Cause I felt like they had a relationship before that, right? Like they do, Sao Paulo would come and check in on him every now and then is what it seemed like.- Yeah.- Make sure he had something to eat.- Yeah, yeah. And this is the time when he finally woke up.- Yeah.- Now how did Sao Paulo, Sao Paulo's a cool character, I liked him. He always, he knew that he was going to be New York.- Well, I think that they, I think that they somehow knew that New York was going to like a weekend or whatever.- Gravity.- And, yeah, it was just kind of like a pull or something. Yeah.'Cause there's no way to really tell who is it, who it's actually going to be, but you probably can feel a pull to people who are more likely to be.- And I think they recognized him after they actually saw them. But there was that weight they talked about the weight.- That's good. I know the others were like, yeah, they felt it. So I didn't know if that was the same thing.- Yeah. I don't know. Overall though, it seemed like it was a, what was I going to say? I remember. I guess the next person is, oh no, no wait, actually in the first part. I guess we're introduced to New York and when he awakens, he is like basically what, immediately attacked by.- Oh yeah.- It's the lady in white, right?- Yeah.- Her, who is the main bag guy, the main antagonist of the book. And he like hardcore fighter, but he gets beat up a little bit too and a bridge gets taken out. Because he can control the city in some sort of way that he can do damage to her or whoever, I guess it would be in this case. But because he's not, he's awakened, but he doesn't have access to all the other burrows. Like he can control everything, but it takes a lot more out of him because not all of the other burrows are with him yet. It takes all of his energy out and he, he like disappears and ends up in a subway station and is just sleeping there for most of the book.- Yeah.- Because he's just like wiped the vacuum.- Yeah.- Well, he was still brand new too. I mean, he had even a chance to.- Exactly. He just awakened and just happened almost immediately.- Yeah. And I think he was also like just the weakest because he wasn't well-nutrished, like nourished.- No.- Nutrished.- He wasn't Nutrished at all.(laughing) That's what, that's not what you're saying right there.(laughing)- Nutrished.- Nutrished.- Nah, I haven't eaten today.(laughing) Anyway, yeah. So that's his first thing.- Yeah.- His introduction.(laughing) I guess the next one would be Manny and he's obviously, he's forgotten everything. He doesn't know who he is. And he's trying to figure stuff out, but his first like vibe is that he gets is that he's in the city. He doesn't remember who he is, but a cab pulls up and it's like an old-timey cab that is not actually a cab. This lady just drives it because she likes it, apparently.- Well, first I wanna talk about how, you know, he gets off of this subway or you know, with train or whatever and immediately just like faints or whatever.- Oh yeah, he passes that.- He first like comes to two people being around him helping him and he's kind of just not expecting that. And they're all just kind of like,"Oh, we're not all (beep) like, (laughs) and that was his first like real experience with New Yorkers and I think that was such a beautiful thing that helped him like be like,"I am meant to be here. I am meant to be like, you know, a good person." And I thought that was a very important moment. I loved that.- Yeah, and he's sort of embodies this idea that people come to I guess New York in general, but Manny specifically and it's just like they're in a malgam of a bunch of different places and things and they have chosen to give up their old life and come to New York. And that's what he is embodying'cause he's never been there before, but yeah.- Yep. His literal first day as a New Yorker.- Yep, he just got there full of immediately faints and is New York now.- Yep, yep. So after all this, then the cab pulls up and he feels like this, this is like one of the, what did they call it? Did they call it a checker or maybe, but it was like work for like a winning company.- Yeah, I don't think so. There's a checkered cab. It is a checkered cab.- Yeah, but I can't remember what they called them.- I think they did, they did call them checkered.- Yeah, 'cause they don't make them like that.- 'Cause he's like, "Oh, we haven't seen these."- Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so this is like the old timey, old timey checkered cab.- Yep. And she, the lady who's driving just so happens to be going the same direction he is and he pays her like 200 bucks to take him to FDR drive. I think that's what it was. And on the way there, there's this, it looks like there's a traffic jam or something like that, but actually there's a giant tentacle coming out of the road. And his whole thing is that he, he gets the lady who can also see it to drive him at it, at speed. And he, when he first sees it, he's, he knows he needs like a weapon. So he goings this umbrella out of the, who's out of the back of a convertible, right?- Is it another woman in another car? Yeah, yeah.- She's like, "Sure, you can do it."- She's like, "That's my sister's, but I just like to hit people with it."(both laughing)- So he gets that, that's his deal.- He wasn't like, so he was jousting.- Oh God, that was so good. I loved that what I would give to actually see that in real life, like I would probably, you know what, you crazy, but you go.(both laughing)- Also, yeah, actually, that was the thing. He first thought about doing like a jousting type pose, but ended up like opening it up and driving straight through it and it like made a perfectly outlined thing of him sitting on top of this.(both laughing)- Yeah, that was what the umbrella did.- Would be a umbrella.- Would be a umbrella.- Like a cartoon, like a sweater, whatever.- But that was so funny.- Yeah, it was crazy.'Cause he also noted that like as they were driving, they kind of set out road flares and everything so that people would go around, but he noticed that people were already doing that. So like they couldn't inherently see it, but they felt that something was wrong there, which I thought was pretty cool. And also it was a testament to like how in two, New York is with New York.- Also, this is a general vibe. Like when they need to get somewhere or do something, generally people will help them or aid them or like get out of the way if they're driving or whatever. And they talk about that a little bit more later in the book.- That's because New York.- That's what?- Is more aware, yeah.- Yeah. So yeah, his intro is pretty fun. Then he ends up going to meet up with his new roommate, which he does figure out because there's like a note or something, right? He's got a note with the address on it.- Yeah, address and his phone.- I think it's his phone, yeah.- Yeah. So it goes there next and meets up with his roommate. They go to a park, I don't remember what park it is.- It's not central.- No, it's the one where they sewed the island to the winds.- Yeah, anyway, I can't remember what anyone was either.- Anyway, they go there. And that's where they first meet directly the woman white who isn't basically like being a Karen at that point.- Yeah.- And recording them saying that they're perverts and all this stuff because they're too men walking in. They're not white.- That was insane to me.- Yeah.- One of the people we do that stuff.- They were with the holding hands, what do you mean?- Yeah.- Yeah, I don't get it. It's something people don't know.- I just, oh man. I really, I just, I'll never understand it.'Cause I mean, I know it happens. It just, it doesn't make any sense to me. Oh my gosh.- I don't get it either. People just be wacky.- How unhinged do you have to be? I just like.- It's a scary part is just people really like you.- Yeah, yeah.- Yeah.- How have they lived?- I don't know.- I have no idea. I have no idea. - Is that a bubble? I mean, I don't even, I don't know what it's like.- It's a different reality. It's like an alternate universe.- Yeah.- It's like slipping through every now and then.- Yep.- Wild.- So they're there. We learn a little bit about this constructs idea, which is where you basically can use something, like any sort of mundane object. But as long as it has the right vibe effectively, you can use it to attack something. In this case, it's the woman and wife. But in theory, I guess it could be used to attack anything. Other cities, other people, or whatever. So in this case, they noticed that the ground is starting to be carpeted in these like little wormy, tendril things, right? And in order to, and was that rock? There's some rock that they stand on. I can't remember what it is. It's some historical thing. I don't remember what it is. Anyway, they're standing on that. And the way that they start trying to destroy the little wormy things that are infecting everybody is by throwing money at it.(laughs)- And it kind of works.- Specifically, another one is stealing money to throw at it too. Because that's also a very New Yorkie.- Yeah, because it was like symbolic of what that bugged out natives.- Like, 'cause it's mugging, yeah. And that sort of works. What ends up working better is when it's broken, right? It comes in playing music loudly, right? And singing a lot.- Yeah, she was also singing along. And she was basically pointed at it and it started killing out all the things. Because again, this is a very New York thing. It's another one of these construct ideas. Which is interesting.- Yeah. Okay, the name of the park is Inwood Hill. Okay.- Inwood Hill? Okay. Inwood Hill. Which is?- A gigantic park.- Well, there you go.- And then it happened.- I'm trying to see if it's got like a brief spiel of what the point is, like historically.- Who with the point is?(laughs)- We already talked about that. It's where the trade was made. And the tree, the tree that it was made under is no longer there and that's where the rock's at.- Oh, okay, okay. That makes sense. So the next person is, we make bronca next. Or do we make eyes on the next?- It's that nylon next.- Okay, next is that nylon.- Oh yeah, you mean her, she just, yeah.- Going across the ferry, across the water, on the ferry, to get to the rest of the city.'Cause she feels like she's being pulled that way. But she's also starting to get very nervous about things because, again, xenophobic. She's going against the general path that people are trying to go right now,'cause they're all trying to get back, and then she's trying to get out. That's what she was saying.- And she's also been told that if she goes, the city will literally eat her alive.- Yeah, that's what her dad has said for like, ever.- Yeah, and she was tiny.- And you can see this sort of internalized prejudice against like everybody, right? And she thinks that like, anybody who is not white is evil in some way, or bad. Anyway, so she's getting ready to go there, she's starting to get on to the thing, until she is stopped by the woman in white who puts like a hand on her and finds out that she is another city person, right?- I think she knew it before he had.- And ends up essentially chicking out and going home. Oh, don't wait, but first, first she gets scared and doesn't she scratch somebody?- She started having a panic attack. And somebody, specifically a black man reached out and asked if she was okay and touched her, which sent her even farther into her spiral.- Yeah.- So yeah, then she scratched, I don't know if it was the same person or not.- I think she scratched him to get his hand off of her.- Maybe, yeah. And then she literally just started running away. While people were asking if she was okay. And that was whenever the woman in white started running with her and saying, "Oh, everybody's trying"to control a city or is, I don't know." She says something weird like that. And Iceland is just like, "Huh?" And yeah, and then this woman touches her and she's like, "Well, she's white, so it's okay." I was like, "I hate you already."- Yeah. - Yeah.- And then she's not bad even though she's foreign because she's white. - Because she's from Canada.- Yeah, she must've been from Canada.- Yeah. - And also because she's white, so white as well.- It's Rosie.- Oh, also, right after this, her dad calls her. No, okay, this lady, at first I thought she was like 18 or something like that. She's 30, isn't she?- I am 30, yeah.- Yeah, she's 30, still living in a home with her parents, which by itself is not like, you know, bad nowadays, you know, but in this particular instance, it's pretty bad. But yeah, the dad calls her and she's on the phone with him because he heard something on the police radio about a lady who had attacked somebody at the ferry who looked like her.- Yup.- Because it was her. But that is how crazy the dad is. He apparently also has like tracking stuff on our car and all this, whatever. He's just ridiculous.- He's a creep.- Very, very overbearing. And just an awful person, you know,'cause he has his at-home words and his work words. And also he's complaining at least in this phone call about how he just hates all the immigrants because he pulled somebody over or something like that or they were just sitting in their car. I can't remember exactly what it was.- They were sitting in their car.- And he arrested this person for no reason.- Yup.- Just because.- Just because.- It's that new age music.- Oh yeah, that's what it was.- That's right, new age music, yeah.- Yeah.- That's what I mean.- That's what I meant.- Mind altering stuff.- Mm.- Yeah. Anyway, this very much gives you the vibe that something is awful there. And the next we got is then it's a bronca, right?- Yeah.- Yup.- All right, so he also described what happens with bronca.- When was Queen's, was Queen's was after.- Yeah, okay, okay.- Yeah, 'cause they come back to bronca a few times.- Yeah.- Bronca, I get a gentlify with her 'cause she was old and although I had not, don't have the past she had.- Yeah.- But, dude, she, that story she told when she was a kid and she took out that dude.- I think that's hilarious.- She's always a strong, like, nonsense.- Didn't mess with her again.- But native women have to be, or they get killed.- Yeah.- And even if they, even if they still are, I mean, they'd still do, it's.- I guess that hurts a little bit difficult to describe. The main thing that happened with her is that she was told that she had to accept some art from these clearly awful people.- Yeah.- Their whole vibe is they try to, like, do something offensive and then talk about it online about how they've been rejected for their offensive stuff and they claim it's reverse racism.- Yeah, I thought that was after.- It is. That was after her awakening.'Cause she, is it a bathroom?- Yeah, the lady and the boy showed up in the bathroom.- And then she went to the bathroom. And then they talk about it after.- Oh.- No, no, I thought it was a bathroom thing.- I thought it was a bathroom thing.- Okay.- Okay. It all seems like two separate things for me.- I think so.- The art was like, they considered it like a portal because one of the other people noticed that there was something wrong.- Oh, that's right, yeah.- I guess I remembered.- I remember it for thinking it wasn't attacked.- I think the--- But because she had awakened already. Okay.- Yeah, she was just arguing in the bathroom with one of the other people because they didn't put her on a research grant.- Oh, yeah, she was.- And then when the lady left, the person she was arguing with, she heard somebody else in the bathroom and it was a lady in white and she kicks in the door and kicks her out, basically.- And then the younger girl that also knows something with the paintings was also like that last doll. There's something wrong with it.- Oh yeah, she came back there and was like,"That's something wrong with that doll." So, yeah. - What's her name?- Vanessa. - This is a V. Vanessa, yeah.- Vanessa.- Vanessa, that's right, Vanessa, yeah.- Yeah, yeah. She lives in Jersey.- Yep.- Jersey City.- Jersey City, baby.(laughs)- Yeah, so that's actually her awakening point is that. And then the stuff with the painting happens later, which we'll talk about next time, because it's very interesting. I really like that part.- It is, yeah.- All right, so that was her awakening. And then the last one is Pavardi. It was Pavardi, right? Queens.- No, I thought it was Piedmini.- Piedmini.- Piedmini, that's it.- Okay.- I'm thinking of Pavardi from a very long story.- It's super interesting to see what it is.- Well, I also like, we had said it earlier and then I said it again and then he said something else and I was like, oh no, did I say it wrong the whole time?- I know, it's Piedmini, you're right, 100%. I'm just like being brave just apparently.- I like her awakening, me too.- Her last name is Prakash, Piedmini Prakash. Anyway, she's Queens, she's, like I said, Mathematics Graduate student. She's doing something for finance though, so that she can stay in Queens and like, you know, this is a thing that lots of foreigners, especially like Indian people have to deal with, where they have to have some sort of job so that they can get sponsored to stay in the US. Like a bunch of people who work for Microsoft are like this and it's apparently something that weighs on their minds a lot, which makes sense 'cause they don't want to get kicked out. They have to be sponsored all the time. Anyway, her whole thing is when she's awakened is that there are kids next door to her out in the backyard who are playing in a pool and they're gonna get like, I'm gonna say that they're gonna get sloped by the pool.- Oh my gosh!- They're gonna, anyway, but her whole thing is that she notices this and she calculates things to use her like abilities. So she thinks about, the first thing she does is she thinks about the fastest way to get to the pool. It will be a straight line path through the wall effectively and she calculates out this jump and then says like, oh, that's what you wanna do. And then she just jumps through the walls and stuff and goes down to the ground. And then her second thing is she thinks about the viscosity of the water to pull the kids out of the water because it's like something is grabbing them in there.- Yeah, well, the first one she gets out and he fights her.- Yeah. - Yeah, I like kicks her.- Well, you know what's the time?- That's how you know you've got a New York kid.(laughing)- Absolutely not. I would have thought at least he would have recognized.- Oh yeah, I think he was just scared. You know, he's just scared.- It may have been, yeah.- Somebody grabs her.- Okay, so she wasn't there and then all of a sudden she was there, grabbing him.- Oh yeah, no, that'd be terrifying.- Yeah.- It's because she would have just appeared there to them. You know?- Yeah.- In the book, they just write out the equations.- Yes.- Okay.- Yeah, 'cause they said it in the audiobook, it does not come across well in the audiobook, but I was like, I know those equations.- I still envisioned it. You know that meme, like the woman with all the equations around her.- Yeah.- That's what I thought too.(laughing)- I was like, man, it must be really cool to be able to do that in your brain'cause I'm just totally making it up, but it looks like that.(laughing)- Yeah, I just.- I thought it's not my first go to personally. Even when I was doing lots of math and stuff.- Well, you're also okay with math.- I am not.(laughing)- I don't know what any of that means or sounds like or looks like, so that's just.- My point is that my brain says to make it make sense, yeah.- I don't go through the equations usually, but I'm just like thinking about it, I think you just do the thing.- Well.- You know. If I have to calculate something that I'm doing in the math, but, yeah. I just thought it was funny. Nothing too complicated in there, but I thought it was funny.- No, no. I also thought it was, I thought it was really cool, and I did think it was very funny because all of them had their different things, and hers was math. And I was like, "Man, that's wild."- I like the hers that math.- How can you like math that much?(laughing)- Oh, she apparently loved math.- I like math.- This is the thing. Math petitions be love and math. Whereas others of us like physicists, we don't love math. We like the physics part, but the math part kind of sucks.- I don't mind math. I don't love it, but it makes sense.- I know it does, but I don't get it.- You guys just haven't done it off math.- I'm just happy that way. I'm totally fine. Totally fine.- That looks like it'll fit.- It's like yesterday.- Dude, I don't know how you did that. She literally brought out this shelf, and I was like, "That's not gonna fit." She's like, "I thought to move like six inches this way." And I was like, "Okay."- And she moved to, and it slid right in. I don't know how she does it.(laughing)- My brain don't work that way.- All right. Anyway, anyway. So I think that's going to be the end of part one. We talked about the intro and all this stuff. And, yeah, I guess do we have an outro type thing?- Yeah.- For this. Go ahead. - Yes.- All right. So our next couple of episodes, we're doing part two of our book chat, our deep dive here. We're doing part two of our deep dive. Then we're gonna have guest author, JD Byrne, and we'll be discussing his book, More Hollow. Then we're gonna do a Curiosity's from Zack and Carla. Then Ariel's Nonfiction, which will be Melania. All right, we'll see you next time. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. It's time for us to sign off, but before we go, only the best libraries have librarians who don't show shoe.(upbeat music)(upbeat music)(upbeat music)(upbeat music)(upbeat music)