The Identity Factor Podcast

Leading From The Heart With Tommy Geary

June 04, 2023 Robin Keesler
Leading From The Heart With Tommy Geary
The Identity Factor Podcast
More Info
The Identity Factor Podcast
Leading From The Heart With Tommy Geary
Jun 04, 2023
Robin Keesler

Welcome to the Shadow Side Leadership Series, where we will be exploring the power of heart-centered leadership and genuine wholeness, which includes the light and the dark parts of our humanity. We will discuss the true source of our deepest power, connection, joy, intimacy and success, which lies in our willingness to embrace rather than reject or deny the shadows that exist within each of us.

In this episode, we are talking with special guest Tommy Geary, who shares his personal journey in business and leadership and opens up about the shadows of loneliness, fear, isolation and the pressure to have it all together.

 As Tommy shares his path to discovering the importance of vulnerability and opening up to his most authentic self, he also uncovers some of the most powerful components not just to being a successful leader, but also to being a person that can open up their heart to love and true connection.

If you love this episode, share it on your favorite social media platform so your friends can hear it too.

Register for the grand finale, live event happening May 19th-21st at where you are going to get an entire weekend of value packed, heart felt love and support from this amazing team of leaders that are walking this path right along side you. 

See you there! 

Show Notes Transcript

Welcome to the Shadow Side Leadership Series, where we will be exploring the power of heart-centered leadership and genuine wholeness, which includes the light and the dark parts of our humanity. We will discuss the true source of our deepest power, connection, joy, intimacy and success, which lies in our willingness to embrace rather than reject or deny the shadows that exist within each of us.

In this episode, we are talking with special guest Tommy Geary, who shares his personal journey in business and leadership and opens up about the shadows of loneliness, fear, isolation and the pressure to have it all together.

 As Tommy shares his path to discovering the importance of vulnerability and opening up to his most authentic self, he also uncovers some of the most powerful components not just to being a successful leader, but also to being a person that can open up their heart to love and true connection.

If you love this episode, share it on your favorite social media platform so your friends can hear it too.

Register for the grand finale, live event happening May 19th-21st at where you are going to get an entire weekend of value packed, heart felt love and support from this amazing team of leaders that are walking this path right along side you. 

See you there! 

 Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Identity Factor podcast. My name is Robin Keesler and I will be your host. Let's go. This month we're gonna be doing something very special and we're gonna be talking with some of the most heart-centered, mission-driven leaders and entrepreneurs that I know each one of them have their own powerful story and mission for change and impact in the world.

As we get ready to dive in to this podcast series, we're gonna be talking about leadership and business. We're gonna be talking about success and identity, all as it relates to this conversation around the mental and emotional health challenges that each and every one of us humans inevitably are going to face on our journey.

And we're gonna be talking about some of those shadow sides of our humanity that all too often get ignored or hidden away from public view. Especially for those of us that are stepping into leadership roles, especially for those of us that feel as though we've been called to be an example to our family, to our communities, in our businesses, and so oftentimes as leaders, there can be a pressure.

To have to perform, to have, to have everything right there can be a, a certain kind of pressure to hide away those parts of ourselves that we'd rather not share. And that's such a heartbreaking thing to see because it's within those shadow sides of ourselves that are. Greatest power and impact truly lies.

And so that's what this Shadow Side Leadership Series is all about. And that's what we're gonna dive into today. Today we're gonna be talking with Tommy Geary. He is a phenomenal coach for men. He is the host of the Durable Dad podcast that provides men with the skills and tools they need to be rock solid for their work.

Their communities and their families. And I'm gonna give you a moment to introduce yourself as well and welcome into the podcast. So glad to have you. Yeah, well, um, very cool to hop on and see Robin and talk to you. Um, it's, the work that you are doing is awesome. I kind of already said this before we hopped on, but the behind the scenes of what you're doing to bring this all together is really cool.

So thank you for allowing me to be a part of that. I. You know, I'll go, I'll, I'll quickly tell my story, but I think with like what we're gonna talk about, yeah. My story or our stories usually come out along the way. But, um, yeah. My name's, my name's Tommy, everybody. Hello. Um, I am, Husband, I'm a dad. I have a five-year-old daughter who's amazing.

My wife and I run our business together and, um, yeah, I coach men. So this day-to-day life that I have is really new to me in like the last three years. We just kind of started this business three years ago and I guess. My story from where I was to where I am now was pretty much all paved on a lot of small steps.

Um, you know, like you said in my little bio that I sent you, I was a college football player. I was a snowboarder. And over a decade, a little bit more, I just kind of turned into this like, mm. Mindful path, maybe intentional living. I think that's probably the best way to sum it up. Try to live an intentional life.

Try to spend my time in a way that isn't like leisure and just chilling all the time, working hard, but on things that matter to me. Uh, and I know that's very general, but I feel like that's, that's where I'm at right now and that's what I try to continue to do is like this work with. Guys and what we're gonna be talking about today.

Mental health is just something that lights me up, gets me excited and it's not easy, but I'm here and I'm doing it and yeah, it's a little bit about me. That's amazing. I love it. Well, we're so glad that you're here. This is such important work. I love that idea of like what you're talking about, like I think that's interesting to me because.

You know, it seems like, you know, I don't know, snowboarding and doing meditation and yoga all around the world. I mean, it sounds like kinda like the dream, right? And it's like interesting to consider, like that idea of I have to relax on this beach one more day. Like, is that sort of something that you felt yourself noticing, like wanting more meaning in your life?

Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, yeah, I was working at a corporate job, which was actually my dream job for a lot of years, and it was in the ski industry. It was a cool job. And then, you know, after being there for 15 years, I just, I, I told my wife one day, I was like, I feel like I'm wasting my days away and, She like stopped me and she was like, that's a pretty bold statement.

And that was kind of a pattern over the last couple years and it really was like everything was good about my job and there was this like lack of purpose, this lack of, I wanted to help more and I think I was helping in certain ways. Um, I'm trying to think of an example here. So, What was happening was I was in this job and I was like pumped and loving it when I was young and I was all in and I was getting promoted and I was leading workshops within my team, and then I wasn't looking for promotions anymore.

Like I saw the work that other people were doing outside of me and it just wasn't what I wanted to do. And. Instead of taking some action on that, I just kind of sat back for a while and I started putting on some pounds. I wasn't getting outside as much as I wanted to. And I think that all culminate culminated into that conversation with my wife when I was like, I feel like I'm wasting my days away.

And I was like, okay, well I'm not just gonna like, I don't know that, that, that was kind of a turning point for me. Yeah. To make some changes. Felt like you wanted something more. Yeah, and this like meditation, yoga was always in the background and it was like a part of my life. It kept me going and I didn't realize that I could like bring it into like what I actually like helped the world with, I guess, which isn't, I don't teach yoga, but helping other people be more mindful.

Hmm. Well that's actually interesting. A perfect question cuz, or segue into the que next question I have for you, cuz one of the things I've been thinking a lot about, and I'm wondering your thoughts on this, is I've been thinking a lot about this idea of leadership and what does it mean to be a leader, right?

As we talk about leadership and mental health, in my mind I'm like, there's so much area where I feel like my definitions of that might be different than most people's, but it makes me wonder what, what does it mean to be a leader to you? Yeah, that's a, uh, okay. What is leadership? Great question. So I've kind of like, I don't know, a lot of people have always said to me, you're a born leader.

You have that natural leadership quality. I was always like the captain of my baseball teams and my football teams through high school and college. And so I think for like looking back at that, what it meant then was, Leading by example. I mean, I know that's like a phrase that is very, um, widely used. So, but what that meant for me were like, live my values and stay aligned with that.

So I think leadership to me was showing up as best as I could in an honest and real way. And, That was kind of in my like younger life, right? Like I would show up to the field and I'd work hard and I'd make sure that I was like nice to the other guys and lifting them up and being on time and doing all the things that I would expect other people to do.

But now leadership to me is very similar. It's leading by example, but the example looks a little different. It's, I don't have to. Like, I think sometimes leadership, you feel like you have to be something else that you're not. And I think really what leadership is is truly being yourself. Mm. And whatever that is, and everybody's leadership is gonna look different.

So that's really something that, um, is, is a lot easier said than done. Super powerful. Right? Totally. So much easier said than done. And I think that comes back to, like you said, is like there's this, it, it sometimes feels like for people in, in leadership roles, whether that's your parent, a coach, you know, an entrepreneur, whatever it means, like whatever that role is.

I think sometimes there can feel like you said, like feel like there's this outside pressure to, that it has to look a certain way. Like to be something that you're not and like what if, what an amazing consideration. Like what if leadership just means showing up as who you truly are and like having the courage to lead by example with that.

Yeah, true authenticity and vulnerability. Yeah. If what we're talking about is true and being a leader is real freaking hard. Yeah. It's not even easy. If someone asks me like, they're like, Robin, you're doing this podcast series for, you know, for leaders and entrepreneurs talking about mental health. Like, what does that mean?

Are we talking about CEOs? Are we talking about, and I'm like, that's what's so fun about this is I'm like, what if, what if being a leader is something so much different than just a title? Yeah. Like, can you be a leader without having a following? Yes. Cuz I think someone's always watching and there's someone always like learning from you.

And so what's kind of, what I'm thinking about right now is like when we think of good leaders in the world mm-hmm. And then we go and compare ourselves to other people. We, I think getting into some kind of comparison mode, especially for me, like becoming an entrepreneur, like seeing how other people are doing it is like, oh, I need to be, um, what's an example?

Like they're. Instagram reels are awesome and look how nicely like edited they are and they're speaking so eloquently and their audience must really understand what they're doing. I need to be more like that person. I think a big thing, especially for me with being a leader, and I don't know if this is a smooth segue or not Yeah.

But is having it all together. Um, Feeling like you need to have it all together. And that was like a big part of my leadership first. Like first as a dad and a husband and starting this entrepreneurship journey, there's a big sense of um, or like this release of control. Right. When you leave a job that has a salary to do your own thing, there's this, it feels like nothing's right.

Like everything is scattered and all over the place. At least it did for me. Yeah. And um, before I took this like entrepreneurship role, I really felt like I had it all together most of my life. I mean, interesting. Oh, I think I, I had uh, um, a lot of confidence growing up. Like, yes, I was overweight and I had some like mental drama around that and mental drama around, like, I wasn't smart enough.

But overall I was pretty confident and even like at my corporate job for 15 years, like comfortable in my own skin moving and grooving and then, Leaving that world into like, you know, the hero's journey, stepping into the unknown to go after your dreams. Um, started to feel like everything fell apart and yeah, that was, um, so that was for me.

Why is this part of leadership? Because I thought for the first couple years of the entrepreneur entrepreneurship journey is that you had to have it all together. That like you have to have it all figured out and. I would try to like exude that to people I've talked to. They'd ask about the business and I would like try to tell them like, oh yeah, it's going well.

This, this is working and that's working. And inside I was like, they have no idea. Like I am hurting so much. I'm so struggling. Those beliefs of I'm not smart enough. I'm not, there's no way I can do this. I suck at school. I suck at learning, like all in my head all the time. And that was like, Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know what that exactly has to do with leadership, but that's where I just got to Well, well, it, yeah, it, it's what creates that question for me, like what is it because is, as we talk about mental health and, and we can talk about this in a second too, like, what does mental health really mean?

Right? Like that, cuz it's like, I think for me, what I started to notice is, is these questions like, What does it mean to be a leader? And I think that's such an important question because I think so many people create this mental construct where being a leader means you're a c e O, or you're a manager, or you're, you know, you've got 10,000 followers or hundred or whatever it is, or however many followers, or you're making a hundred k or a million, or, you know, it's like there's this certain persona of like power and influence.

That I think we associate with leadership, which I think is interesting because what if power and influence is totally different than being, than leadership? What if they're sometimes associated but not the same power and influence equals leadership. Yeah. And what if I, um, yeah, what, what if power and influence is, is associated with, with powerful leaders because, Like my question, what I'm wondering is what if it's, what if it's the other way around?

What if the leadership comes first and as you show up in the world as a powerful leader willing to, like you said, just live your, from that authentic place, that vulnerability and that truth. Cuz like you said, someone's always watching. And, and when And as you own that leadership, what if that's where the power and influence oftentimes can come from?

Not to say that it can't come from a manipulation. There are a lot of people who are really good at just copy or marketing or strategy, right? And they can, they can do that. But when we look at the, the leaders, the powerful leaders, I think that truly move us in inspiring ways. You know, when we think about Martin Luther King or you know, any of these or any of these leaders, Throughout history that really left a mark in the world.

Um, what if that power and influence and that following was just a byproduct of them being a heart-centered human willing to share their story? Yeah, I, um, yeah, I think it's probably true that, um, I don't know. I think like a good leader, I'm reminded of this quote, and I'm not gonna quote it right, and I don't know who it's from, but it's like, uh, like of a good leader at the end they'll say that we did it our own way, or like we did, we did it by ourselves, or something like that.

It's like that selfless leader that isn't looking for recognition and isn't really looking for influence. They're just. Empowering the people around them and, mm. So, yeah, I, I don't think, I don't think, um, what, what are the words? Whatever, what were the words you were using for. Well, like influence and influence, like, and power and influence, right?

Like, yeah. Yeah. Just, I, I, yeah. I don't, I I think you're a hundred percent right. Like I would look and compare these other people that had influence and more money and things like that and think that like, oh, they're the leader in my industry. I need to be like them. But. Those attributes don't have anything to do with leadership.

And like you're saying, maybe it's the byproduct of leadership, I think is exactly what you're saying. So yeah, that could be true. I don't think their qualities of leaders, what would you say have been the most significant mental health or mental or emotional health challenges that you kind of experienced along that journey?

I think the biggest ones that I have experienced are, well, really what I was alluding to earlier, that like, I need to have it all together. Mm-hmm. Like that is a, that is a mental construct and a belief that I think a lot of us, a lot of the dudes I have or a lot of the dudes that I work with have that like, I need to be the one that figures it out.

Like if there's an issue to solve, I have to be the one to solve it. Mm-hmm. And for me, that, um, like releasing of control almost. Mm-hmm. In, so here's the mental, like when we're talking mental health, we're talking, I always like to think of it as mental and emotional health. Yeah. And, The emotional part of that when you think that like when I'm thinking I need to have it all together and then everything in the world is telling me it's not together.

Mm-hmm. And by that I mean like, you know, risking some like a, the financial security of big corporate salaries and big corporate benefits, like, okay, I don't have those anymore. That feels really out of control and. Outta control of like, when you're running your own business, you're s you're, you're making the priorities, you're setting like what the expectations are and you don't freaking know if they're right or wrong.

And so you're like, am I even working on the right stuff? So yeah, telling myself like, I need to have it all together and I don't. Yes, it's in our head. It's mental, it's those beliefs, but it also feels in our body like really scary and it feels. So I think this was the biggest struggle that I went through was like that scared something's not right.

And then it goes into, I'm not doing it right and I need to be doing more. And it's this mix of like, I was putting pressure on myself and I was beating myself up and I was trying to do it like all by myself and figure it all out and that it felt really, um, Isolated. I mean, I was lucky enough to be going through it with my wife because we were running the business together and.

As her husband. I wanted, there was also times where I wanted to feel like I had it together, like I wanted her to know, like, don't worry. It's okay. She would say something about how, how? Like, how are our consults doing per week? And I want, I was like, we're good. We're good. And inside I'm like, I don't know.

This sucks. There's not enough consults coming at whatever it was. And, um, So that was like, I guess that kind of leans into like the biggest struggle I had on this entrepreneurship journey. Yeah. So you said, um, scared, feeling scared, and then the other thing you said was isolated, which is interesting, right?

Like I feel like. For me, that was one of the conversations that has come up a lot as we've been building this, this podcast series and this, this summit event that we're getting ready to talk about. Like what are these major emotions that so many of us are feeling and oftentimes experiencing. And I think the isolation and the loneliness has been a really powerful one.

That's been a big one for me too. And isn't it interesting that as we're doing this work with humans, that we can oftentimes feel so isolated? Yeah, and you know, you could be surrounded by a bunch of people physically, but feel emotionally isolated and lonely and empty and a lot of like, now that. I like the work that I'm doing right now is so cool and sometimes I have to remind myself of this, like when I'm talking to you guys sometimes this is the first time they're saying these things out loud to people that like, I'm not doing enough.

I feel like I can't be who I need to be. I'm angry all the time and I have these thoughts of resentment. And you just like hold it in and then you start thinking that you are the only one. You think that like you are the only one with these problems and there's something like wrong with you and then you really don't wanna share, and then you feel even more isolated and individualized.

And you know, as with my, with my like coach hat on throwing out that like, Hey, you are normal. Like, you're a hundred percent normal. So many other people have these kinds of thoughts. Maybe share a story about me. Share a story about another dude that I'm working with. Mm-hmm. That it's, it, it changes that feeling of isolation and that feeling of being alone.

It's like, oh yeah, he hears me, he sees me. Like it feel, it feels different. Yeah. Hey, if you're enjoying this episode, I wanna invite you to come join us on May 19th through the 21st for the Shadow Side Leadership Summit. It's gonna be an entire weekend where we're gonna dive into these conversations around identity and leadership, around mental and emotional health, around how to support ourselves so that we can truly lead others in a more impactful way, that we also get to experience connection, joy along the journey.

Shadow side leadership Go sign up and we'll see you inside. As you step into that leadership role and you start experiencing potentially even new levels of success, does that feel kind of on point for you? Like all of a sudden in this new role, in this new experience of the world, now I'm feeling new levels of isolation or fear?

Yeah, the. So I don't always think of 'em as new levels. Okay. I think that they're just like these old patterns that we have and they just keep showing up every time you go to try something new and something scary. So yeah, the. Yeah, so it's interesting. You're like, you feel that fear first, right? All right, I'm gonna go try something new.

This feels scary. Then that old belief comes up and is like, you gotta have it all together. You shouldn't do this. You're not smart enough to do this, and that. Like that piles it on and it's so. I've done it enough now in the last years and actually I think I practiced before, like my wife and I have quit our corporate jobs and that was scary.

And we traveled around for a while. We've moved a bunch, we moved from sh um, Colorado to Ohio and that was scary in a lot of ways, even though it's been an awesome move and we're closer to family. But now when it's time to level up, It's like, oh, yep. There's that fear. Like it's, I, I pretty much walk around being scared 90% of the time.

Mm-hmm. I think I'm 90% of the time scared and I can, like, I've learned to like, carry it along with me. That like tightness in my chest. It doesn't cripple me. It doesn't, I don't start shaming myself cuz it's there. It's like, oh yeah. Of course you're there, you're worried, you think this is gonna happen, but you've been through it before man, and you survive.

You kind of normalize it, breathe through it. It's a part of the human experience. Yeah. And sometimes, sometimes it takes a little longer, right? Like you gotta give yourself space to like journal or talk to somebody about it, or take long walks or take a nap and be easy on yourself. Yeah. Um. And like, yeah.

So I don't know. I think that's been, that, that I think that the, the, these old stories are very, uh, tenacious. They, they, they, they need their, they need their attention. If we don't give them their attention, they take us over. Yeah. And if we just like, learn to live with them and bring 'em along, it's, it's where, you know, like you said, like mental health.

Like, it's not when things are going bad, it's when things are just going, it's life. It's like brushing your teeth. Like you always have to be aware of what's going on in your head and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think I love that. Like that's one of the biggest things for me. I think when, and that was one of the questions I had earlier on that I think you touched on, even though I didn't specifically ask it, but like, what do you wish mental health meant to the world?

Mm-hmm. Like what's the lie that we really need to expose around this topic of mental health and the way we approach it? Yeah, I, I think that it's that it's not a problem, right? That there's no, there's talking about our struggles, talking about our emotions has nothing to do with weakness. It's like one of my coaches, Dan Doty, told this dream he has of like 30 years from now, his two sons are.

Sitting around talking and they're talking about their struggles in life and they're figuring it out and they're like, do you know that 30 years ago people didn't even talk about their struggles? Like, and, and that in 30 years from now, his dream is that like that's gone. That people just talk about what's going on mentally talk about their, um, Their fears, their dreams, their everything.

Yeah. And that we connect with each other on that level. Because right now I think the lie is that. If you have negative thoughts or negative emotions, then there's something wrong and right and it's something to fix. Yeah, and I think that's a beautiful segue, Tommy into this idea, cuz as we started, you know, one of the things that we talked about with this.

This idea of the shadow side, right? We're talking about doing this shadow side Leadership summit for people to come in and, and do this, this grand finale event at the end. And, and that's one of the things that has been coming up for me over and over again is kind of, we talk a lot about the 50 50, right?

At the life coach school and the, and there's 50 50, right? The day and the night, the joy and the pain, like there's both sides of that human experience. And so as we talk about like the isolation feelings of loneliness or feeling afraid, feeling fear, like all these, these quote unquote negative emotions that so many people want to avoid.

I love what you said about like, it's what if it's not a problem and it's just part of being a human and we can just not only normalize that, but potentially even celebrate it. Cuz for me, what I've noticed in my journey is those. Those hardest days, those hardest, those most tenacious voices, those, those things, those, those shadows, if you will, that I have had to encounter over and over again.

Unworthiness, depression, anxiety, fear, like they have been my guides. Yeah. It's in so many ways, right? Yeah. And sorrow is like just the other side of the coin when we talk about joy. Right. And so I'm curious, like when we talk about these experiences, how did going through those experiences of fear and isolation that you talked about, feeling like you need to have it all together, all the pressure, how did those experiences really contribute to the growth and success that you have since created?

Well, I, I think it becomes some, like, once you have the capacity to feel some of these emotions and be okay with them, you can allow other people to have those emotions in your presence and you don't get, you can hold space for them because I think that like, the shadow work, uh, like a lot of the, a lot of the times it happens in parenting and I don't know if you have kids mm-hmm.

But. Um, no. Okay, so, but you'll, you, it happens with other people. We see something in someone else. Yeah. And it's a trait we don't like about ourselves and we get triggered. So like I work with a lot of dads and the dad will be like, oh, I see so much of my son. In the, like, he doesn't have the best attention span.

I, I see so much of myself in my son. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, okay. He's somewhere inside. There's a shadow that's telling him he doesn't have good enough attention. He doesn't like, and that is the problem. Focus the way he's supposed to be. And that's a problem. Exactly. And so for that shadow self, like if you don't look at it and like open up to it and.

Acknowledge that it's not a problem. It's just there and it's because we've, I've been thinking this for a long time. If you still fight it, then when your son or your colleague or your client shows up with that same kind of belief, yeah, you don't have the capacity to like say they're okay. You start thinking that there's something wrong with your kid.

There's something wrong with your client that you have to fix and. It's, so I think that's where like the shadow self can really be called out. Mm-hmm. It's like when you notice you're like judging someone else Yeah. Or thinking that they're in sorrow or they're hurting. It's like, wait a second. Yeah. How, like, where is that shadow inside of me?

Yeah. And, and it's like, and, and again, I think that circles back to noticing again, like that shadow side that we all have. And that, like, what if it's not a problem? Because the only reason when we see that in, like you said, in your kids or in other people, it's like the only reason it's a creates a problem in the relationship if it's a, is if it, if it's a, if I see it as a problem in myself.

Yeah. And okay, so what, where has the power been? Like you were asking for myself. So, one is work. I'm able to be a better like coach for my clients. I think I'm able to be a better father cause I'm allow, I can let my daughter have her own emotions. It's been a big one with my mom. Um, this, I have to have it all together throughout this process has brought up a lot of.

Mental drama, um, around my mom, and she's like, amazing. Me and her have an awesome relationship. We've always have, but this, I have to have it all together. I really felt around my mom. I couldn't tell her I have problems. I couldn't like tell her something was messed up in my life. And so doing this work with our business, noticing these issues I had with my mom and my mental stuff, um, Working through it has brought my mom and I a lot closer together.

Mm-hmm. Um, I don't think, like, we don't have. Like the, we, we have an amazing relationship. It's just a lot different than what it used to be, which is Yeah. Supposed to happen, right? Yeah. I'm not supposed to have the same relationship as I had with my mom when I was eight years old when I'm 40. Yeah, that would be weird.

Yeah. Um, but a lot of the times, like a lot, lot of those beliefs are life still there that like we, we want, we try to be this old shadow self and, um, But that's just something else that came up when you said, yeah. How is it transformed? Right. Everything bleeds over different areas in our life. We strive better in business and we figure some of our mental stuff out and we get to improve in business, but then it helps me with my relationship with my mom, and that's kind of cool.

Yeah. Do you feel like these, these shadow sides of yourself that you've kind of noticed as you've gone through this entrepreneurial journey, do you feel like it has created more growth or success for you? Like when you look at, you've talked about like your relationship with your mom and also your business.

Do you feel like there's one that came first or, or that has, that has benefited more from having to go through that journey? Or do you feel like it's pretty equal? Um, like if business has Yeah. When you think about more successful cause of it or, yeah. Personal relationships. Mm-hmm. Um, I can't really think of one more than the other.

What's coming up for me is, so what's coming up for me is like, none of this work needs to happen. Right. Like all of this stuff I'm talking about, I don't, I don't need to dive this deep into like yeah, performing at my ultimate best and getting, like, shining a light on these shadow things cuz it can be really uncomfortable and it's, I.

So I like for the listeners out there, you don't need to do this work. Like you're gonna be fine if you are lonely and isolated. It doesn't mean that you have to go start working on the relationship you had with your mom. It just means that like you're not alone. Talk to somebody and like that will be enough.

Um mm-hmm. So I do like to say that cuz no one, yeah, I don't, I like to say, no one needs to do this work. If you want to do this work, it's there for you. And I think. For me. Yeah. It's like all areas of my life. Business has like, you can, I guess you can see a correlation. Yeah. When you're on top of your mental health and when I'm not on top of my mental health of like my relationships and the people around me and my business and like what's coming in and out and the quality of work I'm putting out, like if I'm not managing my mental health, then yeah.

Yeah. Things can fall flat. Yeah, I love that idea of choice, right? Like it's just a choice and that, and that there's no right or wrong that we just, that we get to create our own experience. But yeah, like that, that where we are, whatever the, the, the mental or emotional experience that we're having is, right, because mental health, it's not just about the dark side.

There's the light side too, right? Mental health is also about joy and connection and intimacy. Um, but the fact that you might be experiencing depression or isolation or loneliness or anger like that doesn't mean that something's gone wrong. It doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. And I love the idea of considering like, what if all of these, what if these shadow sides, like you talk, like you said, right?

What if they are in fact the gateway to our greatest contribution? Like what if they are literally bringing us home to ourselves? And, and what if that is the, the, the, the pieces of the puzzle that are creating your specific leadership style and how you show up with your clients and the way that you guide them.

Yeah, I think it is like, back to these, uh, like I, I kind of think that we've built these layers since we were a little kid and it's, this isn't just my idea, but like we come into this world pretty like. Free and open and receiving and loving and our pure self. And I like the picture of as we move through life, we learn how to survive and we pile on these personalities and these personas and what these early ones become our shadow self, kind of like we're talking about.

And when we do start to shine the light on them and get to know 'em a little bit, I think all we're doing is like, Actually, one of my meditation teachers, um, talks about deconstructing yourself. Mm-hmm. And breaking, like, seeing these shadow parts, peeling them away a little bit. I think the big thing is it opens up you, it opens you up to love, opens you up to like, have your heart shown instead of protect it and like, I think good leaders lead from the heart, like when you can lead with faith and trust that everything's gonna work out the way it's supposed to, and you don't have to protect or block or be something that you're really not.

That's, that's when you like, make magic in the world. I love that so much. What a beautiful segue into our end. The last question I'm gonna have for you before we end, uh, Tommy, is what was your moment of greatest joy along this journey? Oh, I saw that question before I came and I, uh, I couldn't, I, I was like, every I came, it brought me back to like, every day I feel fear, and every day I feel joy.

Mm-hmm. Um, the, I think the greatest joy one of 'em has been, Loving my work and being able to show my daughter that work is like good. It's not something I grumble about. Um, And she even said like a couple weeks ago, she was like, and Daddy, you help people. And I don't consider myself like help people.

People help themselves like they know what to do best. But her just saying that, I was like, all right, I must be doing something right if that's what she thinks. So that. When you asked that question before that, that's what came up to me. But I mean, yeah, sitting on this call getting to have this conversation with you.

Yeah, I felt nervous throughout it. Yeah, I've felt scared and I've like had huge smiles of like joy on my face, so Yeah. That's amazing. And how can people find more about you, Tommy? The website easiest way, tommy g Check it out. The Durable Dad podcast is on there, releasing episodes every week and you can learn more about me.

Reach out, have a conversation. I mean, you can always find me. I love it. Thank you so much for spending this hour with us today. I'm so grateful for you. Thank you, Robin, right back at you. Thanks for everything you're doing with this.

If you enjoyed this episode, Take a screenshot of it for me and share it on your favorite social media platform so that your friends can find out about it too. And in the meantime, I just wanna invite you to remember that you are beautiful, that you are worthy, that you belong, and that you are powerful beyond measure.

See you next time.