The Identity Factor Podcast

Radical Acceptance & The Power of Choice With Chris Hale

August 20, 2023 Robin Keesler
Radical Acceptance & The Power of Choice With Chris Hale
The Identity Factor Podcast
More Info
The Identity Factor Podcast
Radical Acceptance & The Power of Choice With Chris Hale
Aug 20, 2023
Robin Keesler

In this episode, Chris Hale invites us on a journey of self-understanding and profound self-compassion. We will explore the power of curiosity and radical acceptance in fostering a nurturing and non-judgmental approach to our present moment and our mental health as a part of this life experience. 

As we learn to ask ourselves better questions, we learn to offer ourselves the care and nurturing that we truly need in each and every moment of our human experience.

Chris invites each of us into an approach to navigating our mental health journeys with gentleness and love instead of stigma and judgement. 

It is my great pleasure to invite you into this powerful conversation as we delve into the transformative power of curiosity, radical acceptance, and self-care as it relates to leadership, identity and mental health.

Learning how to approach yourself with tenderness and curiosity is such a game changer and I can't wait for you to be a part of this amazing revolution of love.

You can find more of the amazing Chris Hale at his website or on his IG @theonlychrishale.

Share this episode on your favorite social media platform and don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you don't miss what we have coming next.

You can register for our free mental health and leadership summit by going to and come get some amazing presentations and live support around all things leadership, identity and mental health. 

I love you. 

Talk soon. 

Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, Chris Hale invites us on a journey of self-understanding and profound self-compassion. We will explore the power of curiosity and radical acceptance in fostering a nurturing and non-judgmental approach to our present moment and our mental health as a part of this life experience. 

As we learn to ask ourselves better questions, we learn to offer ourselves the care and nurturing that we truly need in each and every moment of our human experience.

Chris invites each of us into an approach to navigating our mental health journeys with gentleness and love instead of stigma and judgement. 

It is my great pleasure to invite you into this powerful conversation as we delve into the transformative power of curiosity, radical acceptance, and self-care as it relates to leadership, identity and mental health.

Learning how to approach yourself with tenderness and curiosity is such a game changer and I can't wait for you to be a part of this amazing revolution of love.

You can find more of the amazing Chris Hale at his website or on his IG @theonlychrishale.

Share this episode on your favorite social media platform and don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you don't miss what we have coming next.

You can register for our free mental health and leadership summit by going to and come get some amazing presentations and live support around all things leadership, identity and mental health. 

I love you. 

Talk soon. 

 Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Identity Factor Podcast. My name is Robin Keesler, and I will be your host. Let's go. 

All right. Let's rock and roll. Awesome. Yay. We're getting started. 25 minutes later. Chris Hale, welcome into the podcast. Everyone else welcomed into the Identity Factor podcast. You guys are in for a treat today.

I'm in for a treat today. As we continue with this Shadow side leadership series, talking about the shadow sides of ourselves, the parts of ourselves that we sometimes would potentially rather not show the world, but the parts of us that actually really service the 50/50, all the things as it relates to mental health, identity leadership, um, that's what we're doing in Chris Hale is a certified life coach for Q plus creatives.

He helps them claim their confidence and their authority to put their best work in the world. And so he has agreed, uh, to come in and do this podcast. Oh, he's also the host by the way of the You need a Coach Bitch podcast. I love it. So you gotta go check that out. And he's here to help me open up this conversation around leadership, identity, mental health, and also to keep my brain on track and in line so that we don't go all over the place.

Right. You're my handler. I will. Yeah. I'm good. I'm good with time. Welcome. And Chris, is there anything else you'd like to add? Oh my God, no. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yay. I'm excited to have you. Um, I would like to know, first of all, um, if you would like to tell the audience a little bit about how you got into the work you do or anything, feel free, but what made you wanna do this endeavor with, with me, with us?

Like what was interesting about this project to you? I mean, you are, were interesting too.

I mean, I think that was first and foremost. It's like you, you just ask. And I was like, of course I wanna do whatever, whatever you, whatever you're doing, I wanna be there. Um, and I just think it's like, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's always like representation. It's always like, um, I feel like we just need visibility and anything that is going to like, give us more visibility and also we can destigmatize.

Anything like, I think there's so much that needs to be de de-stigmatized. So I think any, anything that, anytime we can do that, anytime we're opening up conversations that help to do that and um, be an example for other people, I just want there to be more of that. So it's like a hell yeah. Yeah, totally.

So let's talk about that. What is up with the stigma? Why is it here? Like, um, I mean, that's such a big question. Uh, I mean, I, I think like, I mean, stigma around mental health around anything is, is really just about controlling people. Um, I mean if we wanna like take it back, right? It's like members of like society who were deemed not.

Um, welcome or that we wanted to hide away because they didn't conform to what was thought to be like the appropriate way to be. And like, you know, so many things have been deemed like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, like, hmm. Like problematic. Like you could be considered mentally ill for so many reasons, right?

That we're really just about controlling people. So I think like that's why there's such a stigma is because it's about control and it's not necessarily about like helping people, but it's always been more about hiding people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sucks. I mean, I mean, yeah, like, I think sucks is like, is like the.

It's the nicest way you could describe it. Right. I think it's also extremely disheartening. Um, and it can be really discouraging, right? It can make it feel like everything, like every battle just feels a little bit harder. Yeah. When you're like managing your mental health when it's something that you have to actively think about every day.

Well, and I think it's demoralizing really when you, I mean, obviously I said that a little bit tongue in cheek, but it's like, yeah. It's like it's, I think when you, not only is it making your day harder when that's already something that you're dealing with, but when you add a stigma to it, it's like, now there is this, whether you're aware of it consciously or not, there is this belief system.

There's like, there's something wrong with me. Like that. I'm broken. I'm ro like, this is why, you know, some of many of my relationships are failing. This is why people don't wanna be in a relationship with me. This is why I keep losing my jobs. Like, I'm just not good enough. Obviously there's just something wrong with me and you feel so broken.

And so I think that on top of just the reality of the situation is it's like, um, yeah, it's, it feels, I don't even have the words for it. Like to say that it's an uphill battle feels also like just not good enough. But, um, we're, we're, yeah. It's like you've got this person that's already down and we're just totally kicking them while they're down.


And I think it's like, it allows other people to pass judgment on you and it intensifies the judgment. You're already like passing on yourself. Yeah. And it's like, we have to think about who does it benefit, right? Like, and again, this goes back to controlling people, like, you know, women being considered like hysterical because they didn't want to do like, or they just disagreed with their husbands.

Right? Like, again, it's like, who benefits from this label? Yeah. Right. Of like mentally ill, right? Like, I don't, it's, it, again, it's not about helping the people who actually need the resources and need the help, it's more about controlling people. Um, you know what I mean? Totally. A hundred percent. And I think what I'm curious about is actually a conversation that has come up since I, you know, even put this project together and started talking about it, is when we talk about helping versus hurting and stigma and the things like, speaking of like, this isn't necessarily about the conversation around bias, but I think it's all similar.

It's like sometimes this becomes like the water you swim in and it's like you don't even realize that you're like un unintentionally. Really being a part of that, right? Like can, like perpetuating the stigma and, um, and I think for, that's a conversation I would love to have and I'm curious to hear what you think about that because I didn't realize, so for me, even doing this project, right, this, we're doing this shadow side leadership series, shadow side leadership summit, talking about leadership.

And to me, when I talk about the shadow side, that means to me it's like those parts of myself that do feel stigmatized, right? Like the parts of myself that I feel ashamed of or that I just don't want people to see, right? Like, I don't want pe, I don't like it always when people realize like, dude, my brain, I'm all over the place.

Even like introducing you. I'm like, here, let me introduce the first sentence and then talk about the podcast. Oh, but he also does this. And it's like, right, that part of me, it feels like, who the hell are you? To show up here and do a podcast and teach, like go figure your shit out first before you try and like, talk to the world.

Right. Or the needy parts or, there's so many parts, right, that I could, I could feel embarrassed of or ashamed of. And so that was what made me, I really thought about wanting to do this in a lot of other areas, but one of the conversations that came up even around that terminology is like, Robin, I have, there were people that were like, I have concern though that even saying it the way you're saying it is like potentially shaming Right?

Or that, that might feel like there's something wrong with like Right. The shadow that is Yeah. It's like a dark side or a, or a shaming side and, and nothing wrong. Like I, I love Dex was super willing to have this conversation with me on his podcast and I loved that he was willing to kind of advocate for that or explain a little bit why does it feel that way to some people?

Because it may not resonate for everyone. Yeah. So when we get ready to have this conversation, Chris, as we talk about mental health, I think it's an important conversation to have, right? That so many people think about mental health as mental illness. Right. And that's a bummer. Right? Exactly. Yeah.

Understatement. But it's like, it sucks. Yeah. It's like, cuz mental health is a spectrum and it totally, why are we looking at it as, as a, as a, well, we're dealing with mental illness, something to be dealt with instead of looking at it as this bigger picture that it is. And so I just wanna, would invite you to kind of take that away for a minute with all those pieces that I gave you.

Yeah. And I think like, it's interesting, before we hit record, we were talking about human design and I like just had a human design reading and there's like all these numbers on either side of your sh your chart, and one side is like your forward facing self, right? Like your personality that's out in the world.

And the other side is your shadow side. Mm-hmm. Right? And it is like the parts of you that you feel you need to hide. And I love that like, explanation for it because it's not anything that is wrong with you. It's the parts of you that, like you, for some reason are thinking are not appropriate or acceptable to put in the world, and that's not your fault.

Right. So I think that like I, there's somebody told you at some point that it was not okay, yes, we adopted this construct, this perspective instead of celebrating the shadow. Right? We've, and so that's why I wanted to have this conversation, but I love, I love that people were willing to talk about that because it just shows the effectiveness of these social, um, indoctrinations, right?

Well, and that's really like the whole thing. It's like we, I mean, I do think like there's also the conversation around like negative emotion and the way that people perceive, um, like, like negative emotion as. As being negative, right. As being like a bad thing that shouldn't be happening. So there's that conversation too, wherein like, we're all gonna experience that and like having the conversation around like, not like we, we pathologize negative emotion and our culture, right?

It's like just regular sadness, you know, is is like, like the equivalent of a depression, right? And it's like, those are different things. Wow. You know? But we we're like, we have to fix sadness because we, no one should be sad ever. So I think that like, that's a part of the conversation too in terms of like, um, we all have dark times, we all have, you know, positive and negative experiences like that, you know, emotionally.

And so I think we need to like first say like, that's a reality of, of like, Humanness. And then the other layer of it is, yeah, the, the way that we've been in interacting and been made to interact with culture and society that is telling us that there are things about us which we should hide. Exactly. And to expose that as the lie that it is.

Because it's like, and I think it's, and it does like, it feels like something I think just to be aware. But even, yeah, even as we have the conversation about positive emotion, negative emotion, it's like we, and I love this conversation that I had, um, with, I think it was Cam that was talking about this.

He's like, it where it was like, we're kind of like, it sucks because we as humans are, we are confined by this, this tool of language. And, and it's, I, it's almost sometimes feels like an impossibility because it's like, it's really, these quote unquote negative emotions really aren't even negative, right?

Like even that is just something that's made up, right. That we have just decided. But it's like, but we use that word because it's, I guess it's because it's how most people relate to it or something, but it's, well, I think we have to un like also ask ourselves why is that how most people relate to it?

Right? Because it's like a chicken or the egg thing here, because right. We're not often talking about like our, like. Natural, intuitive, like fight or flight system. Right. Wherein like we're, we're coming up against something that is potentially dangerous. Mm-hmm. And then we're processing through like, is it dangerous?

Is it not dangerous? Okay. It's not dangerous. I can calm the F down. Like, that's not often what we're talking about. Right? Yeah. Because like that is something that we experience, like it doesn't feel good and it's meant to not feel good. Yes. Right. Like it's meant to be like, get the heck out now. Right?

Like that. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, we're not supposed to necessarily experience that as something like, yay, let me like lean into this. It's like, no, that's an alert. Right. I think about pain that way too. Like there are like, There is like certain amounts of pressure, like when I get a massage and like my, my nervous system's like freaking out about it and I'm just like, listen, this is just pressure.

He's not hurting you. There's no need for this alarm system to be ringing because you're safe. Right. And I can like remind myself that that's just pressure versus like, if I was actually being harmed, I would wanna interpret that like pressure or whatever as, as something different. Yeah. So there's that aspect of it that like, yeah, we're meant to experience some things as like bad, but then we're socialized to believe other things are bad that don't necessarily need to be bad.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and to, I think notice even the things that our brain is like, okay, this is bad or whatever. Like, what does that even mean? Right. Because like you said, like it's still. And essential, you wouldn't want to get rid of it. Right? Yeah. It's inform, again, it's information, it's important information, right.

And it's like, and there's, this is serving me and helping me in some way. Right? So it's like, I think the essentialism of these parts of ourself is such an important conversation because it's as though like, I think part of the stigma is that people have, have, again, Started to believe that like, oh, this is, this is somehow like an extra part that shouldn't be here.

Right. That made it in a bag somehow. And I don't know, like we need to get rid of it. And it's like, no. Like I love the way that Deepak Chopra talks about this, where he's like, you know, the day and the night. He's like, if we didn't have the night, like our universe would explode. Oh, yeah. Like from the heat, it's a natural cold.

Oh, totally. Right. Yeah. Like, we need that. And like, that's what gives life to the universe and we are no different. Right. And like, yeah, there's like such a cyclical, like seasonality to our lives and, um, that I think we try to ignore. Mm-hmm. And I see it a lot. Like I work a lot with people on scheduling.

Like this has been something that I've been like really, um, creating tools around for a lot of my clients. Like a lot of my clients are neurodivergent. Um, a lot of my clients are just like, like, Coming to being their own boss for the first time so that they don't understand like how to create something for themselves out of, you know, nothing.

And like there is a rhythm to your own self every day, right? Like we are, we are, we have a cycle to ourselves every day. And paying attention to that cycle and having this expectation that we're going to have like high energy all day long to accomplish all this stuff, or that we should be able to focus on projects.

Like we only really have like four to six hours of focus time, like in us a day. Like, that's it. So if you're trying to like, seems like a high number even for me. I'm like, I know, I like, I know I confirm. Like who perfect. I know for me it's like two, but like, and then I like need a nap. Um, Yeah, but like, but you know what I mean?

It's like, like understanding that and then honoring that is really, really hard for people because we have been so brainwashed that like the eight hour workday or whatever, like, um, or whatever it is, is it eight hour? I'm like, how long do people work?

I never had, I never had that structure, but like, you know, the nine to five. Um, yeah, it just, it was again, like we have to think about who these's systems were made to benefit. Right. If you are a like man who is either single or has like a partner who's a woman at home taking care of everything else for you, like yeah, you can totally go work for eight hours.

Yeah, exactly. Like super fun if you're an entrepreneur at home by yourself doing all the things like, and still trying to maintain this, this idea. It's, it's nuts what happens again to your own mental health, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like working at home is really, I love it. It's my favorite thing, but it's also like, you know, there's so many things to distract me from my work here.

Right. And like, my husband is out of the house pretty much all day. Like, he wakes up in the morning, he goes like, opens the studio, 8:00 AM he goes to workout, he comes back, he like grabs lunch, he goes back out two o'clock is at the dance studio 10 o'clock. Right. I'm just here every day. And it's like, there's so much to do.

Yeah. You know? And so it's like, I'm like, oh, I, you know, have a Klan call, go throw in laundry. Like, dude, like, it's like man, like. If I could just leave and not think about it, it would be so much easier. Right. Because it would be like restricted times where like, I'm gonna do this from this time to this time, and then I'm gonna leave and it's out of sight, out of mind.

I don't have to think about it when it's, when it's in your face and you're highly distracted. Yeah. Like that is one of the challenges of running like a business on the internet by yourself. Yeah. And then add in any other kind of like, um, any, anything else that impacts your focus or your energy or your attention.

Right. Which so many of us have, you know, like, I don't know if I'm gonna wake up in the morning and like be depressed. Right. Like, I have my meds. Yeah. And you know, they do what they do, but they don't make it all go away. Right. It's not like a magic pill. So like I can still wake up on a tu random Tuesday and like, not wanna get out of bed.

So what do I do that day? What we do. Let's talk about that. So, okay. Like, as we look at these experiences of, you know, mental and emotional, you know, fitness, I think first of all, can we define what that means? So when we talk about mental health, like what, let's define that. What does mental health mean? We know what it means to the world.

Oftentimes. What does it mean to you? For me, it's really like, um, it's a collection of systems that help me to like function and operate to the best of my ability on a day-to-day basis. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like that's really like the way that I think about it, it's systems and tools that allow me to like be a human being in whatever, whatever that looks like on, on a daily basis.

So what are the systems and tools that you have found that have been really helpful? So, first of all is my meds. Um, like 100%. And then the, the things that support, or the things that, like my meds make, make easier or, or like, it's kind of like a back and forth, right? It's like a, it's like which one is it?

But they support each other as like, meditation, exercise, um, sleep. Uh, I'm not a great sleeper at night. So naps are a really big part of my, um, my day, my routine, um, what I ate throughout the day. Mm-hmm. My connections with other people. So these are all sort of the things like, You know, my thought work, the coaching, my therapy, like it all just like, there's so many things.

Yeah. And even like my, like biweekly massages, like I get a massage every other week, and that is a part of like helping to maintain my mental health and fitness because, you know, I'm a, I'm a former dancer with a lot of stuff going on in my body. So like, like getting that worked out, having that tended to, is really helpful in terms of like, like managing the way I feel inside my body changes the way that I experience the world.

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I think that, um, you know, for me, one of the things that I have noticed is I love, I love all the, the awareness that we can bring to, so we've got this toolkit over here, right. Of support, which I love. Um, for me, one of the things that I have experienced a lot through my life has been depression.

And one of the things that I am curious to talk about is like we, like, I know, and I don't know if our listeners all do, but there are for sure some profoundly powerful benefits to the food that you eat, right? Um, just like neurochemically, right? Look, when we talk about the microbiome and hormones and all that kind of stuff, like meditation, exercise, what you eat, what you drink, getting enough sleep, all of those things, however, is beautiful as those things are.

I'm sure you know what I'm gonna say, right? What the hell good does that do when I'm in that place that I'm like, I don't effing care. And I don't have the energy and I can't even hardly, you know, it's like for me to get out of bed and take a shower is a freaking victory. Like I'm not ex like when you're not in the routine of doing it.

To me, those tool belts, those have been things like, once I get in the routine and I'm up and I have my energy and I'm like, you know, more in that place of balance, then I'm able to start using those things and creating those routines and stay, it's like, I hate to use the analogy of like on the cart, off the cart because it's so effing not useful, but you get what I'm saying, right?

It's like when I'm up and I'm doing those things, those things feel like they help me maintain and keep that good routine and support me. But like when I'm deeply in a deep depression, it's very difficult to do that. Yeah. And I think, um, like this is where. Adjusting, like I did a whole podcast episode about this of like reconsidering baseline, right?

Because like your baseline when you are feeling amazing is gonna be different than your baseline when like you're not feeling amazing, which is gonna be totally different from your baseline when you're in a depression, right? Or you're going through like a health flareup or any of those things. So we have to reconsider like what that is.

And I think sometimes we have to do that on a weekly to daily basis of like when I'm in a depression that is, you know, it's gonna probably last a few days, if not a couple of weeks. So, right. I'm really thinking about like, well first of all it's the understanding of what it is. Like what am I actually, where am I?

Like, um, because I had this issue where I was like burnt out and I did everything that I could do to like fix the burnout. And it wasn't like I was. Energetically feeling better, but then there was still something wrong. And that's actually, I had been off my meds for a year and I was doing fairly well, but it like had gone on long enough that I was like, it's time to go back because I could no longer, there were, the tools were not accessible.

It wasn't burnout, it was actually a depression. And so, you know, I've played with that over the last six years of like being on and off meds. And I remember one time when I was going off one of them, um, and I noticed, like I just started to get very dull and I was just like, and it eventually evened out, but like, I just was at this really dull place and my husband noticed it too.

He is like, yeah, you are really dull. And I was like, yeah, I am. And I think we have to just like normalize me being dull right now. Yeah. And I think that that's the biggest like. Like mindset shift that we can have around What's going on for us is like, yes, the world is going to have an opinion, and yes, there's a lot of stigma, but how do we like, you know, root out that stigma in ourselves, right?

And decondition ourselves with ourselves so that we have compassion and say like, yeah, this probably isn't, this is temporary. I know that it's gonna lift. I know that this is just a moment we've been here before, and so what do I need to do to support myself through it this time? Instead of freaking out and being like, there's something wrong.

Like, why do I feel this way? It's like, we've been this, we've been here before. Like, you know what I mean? It's that whole like, like let's expect things to always be the way they've been. Hmm. And not like. I really was like, oh yeah. Like I'm just gonna not be depressed one day, or like, my trauma's just gonna go away.

Like, I'm just never gonna be triggered again. I had this, like, I just had this realization one day I was like, oh, this isn't going anywhere. Yeah. Like, this is with me. Yeah, exactly. I love that idea of the baseline because it's like, that's kind of how I think about it too, is it's like for me, like I have, again, like the tool belt, right?

The exercise, the meditation, the way that I eat, the food, all those things, they're valid and I totally love to use them. And if I'm able to access any of those things when I'm in that place, that's beautiful. That's great. I totally will. Um, but like, it's, for me, what I've noticed to be one of the most powerful things is, like you said, it's like really like meeting yourself where you're at and being like, oh, that's a protocol for when I am.

Like, you know, I don't like when I'm in the, when I'm in the green zone, that's a pro I can access. When I'm in the yellow zone, um, maybe I can access putting a, putting a scoop of barley, max powder and a shaker and just like chugging that really quick. But I'm probably not gonna like, you know, do a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah. You know, but like when I'm in the red zone right. Or whatever, and when I'm in the yellow zone, maybe I can go sit, maybe I'll go sit in the yard and be in the sun, but I might not be like going to the gym or let's be real, I never go the gym. That's a zero zone thing. Alright. But it's out. So cat's outta the bag.

I mean, I don't go to the gym, I work out at home cuz I'm not trying to work out with other people. Yeah. It's like we're, listen, we're an introvert. Let's, that sounds dangerous. There's humans there. But, you know, so like, knowing where I'm at, am I in the red zone? Am I in the yellow zone? Am I in the green zone?

Because my protocol and the way that I support myself and the way that I treat myself and the tools that I use are different depending on what zone I'm in. Yeah. And we just have to be like, what do I, what do I have the energy for today? Um, What, if anything, excites me? Mm-hmm. You know, like I think or like what can I find a little bit of like enchantment by like what, is there anything that's interesting for me today?

I'm just kind of making that. Okay. Because I think there's a lot of like shoulds and shouldn'ts that go on. Right. But like when we're in a place where we just really aren't managing, like we have to be allowed to do whatever it is that is gonna feel good because that's our road back. Yeah. Is the like starting to feel good again to starting and we need to find that, you know, wherever we can in.

Right. Sometimes when I'm in that place, honestly, it's like just when I'm like laying in my bed and it's just dark and cool in the room and just whatever, and I just like, it can be as simple as like, wow. Like I'm enjoying like this. This feels really nice. Yeah. Like just allowing myself to be in that place, you know?

And it's like, one of the things I was listening to Jim Carey's, uh, a speech that he gave talking about this kind of stuff, and he's like, for me, you know, he's like, when I noticed myself being really depressed, I realized, yeah, this is my deep depressed. Hmm. And he's like, nobody ever talked to me about it that way before, but he's like, yeah, I had spent so many years trying to live this character, all these characters, Jim Carey being one of them, right?

I have this person. And he's like, and there was this part of me, this deep part of my soul that was revolting and that was trying to communicate to me. And that was saying, you know what? I'm done. Living that life the way you're living it. I'm asking for something different right now. And it was, and it was, I don't know.

It was interesting for him to, to explain it that way, where he's like, I just felt like I was trying to uphold, like we talked about earlier, right? All these expectations of the world and the way you have to be and who you, the way you have to present yourself as a leader, you have to be strong and you have to not have these parts of yourself and hide those things.

And he's like, no wonder I was feeling that depression, right? Because he's like, there was so much that I was trying to carry. And he's like, I actually think that that space gave me that opportunity to just put all of that away and to just come and have that deep rest with myself where nothing had to be done except for me to lay and breathe and just be present with what's here and allow us, and this is where I think the coaching and the therapy can be so helpful because in my early years of depression, I rested a lot and I slept a lot, but it wasn't in a place of Nutra neutral.

Yeah, it was. It wasn't in that place where I was able to just really examine like what's here, and asking myself, what is it that you need? And Right. I wasn't having that love and that compassion. Whereas now when I'm in that depression, I just really am pouring myself love with love and compassion and just relating to myself in such a tender way.

And I think in my earlier years it wasn't that way because I still had that belief that something was wrong. Yeah. So it made it scary and dark and painful instead of restful. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

No, it, it just, yeah. Yeah, it just really does, it makes a lot of sense. It's like it all comes back to like our relationship with ourself, you know? And like improving that relationship with ourself by like quieting the judgment. I just really find that like, what stops people the most is the fear of their own judgment.

You know, especially as we're talking about leadership, like 100%, like, like stepping out there and being willing to like, be imperfect in front of a group of people and say like, Hey, like let's, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna like walk in front of you, you know? Um, and I might only be a few paces in front of you, I think is hard, right?

It's, it's, it's hard to admit to that we're used to that like super, like broy, like, you know, Masculine energy of like, I've got this walk behind me. I know everything. Like, you know what I mean? And it's like when you, like, we've all tried to emulate that in a way of like, or we think we need to, like, we think we need to be the leader, right?

Who's like, I can fix anything. Like, you know, like what it would like the confidence of just like a, you know, regular white, straight guy of just like, I can fix anything. Like, you know. Yeah. Sometimes you are like, I wish I had that confidence. But I mean, no at the same time because it's like, I wanna like lead with people.

Like, I wanna say like, yeah, I'm only a few steps ahead of you and I might mess this up on the way, but like, this is what I know and like, let's do this together. And that's really more like way more vulnerable. Yeah. Right. To, to say like, yeah, this is hard for me too. Let's let it be hard together. Here's a few things I've learned along the way, and maybe they're gonna help you.


Hey, if you're enjoying this episode, I wanna invite you to come join us on May 19th through the 21st for the Shadow Side Leadership Summit. It's gonna be an entire weekend where we're gonna dive into these conversations around identity and leadership, around mental and emotional health, around how to support ourselves so that we can truly lead others in a more impactful way, that we also get to experience connection, and joy along the journey.

Shadow side leadership Go sign up and we'll see you inside. A hundred percent. Yeah. Like even doing this summit, I was like, wow. But if anyone knows that this is my first time putting one of these together, then they're not gonna wanna participate because Right, they're gonna be like, oh, she doesn't know what she's doing.

Don't, doesn't she know that this is how you're supposed to do it, and what's with all these email? Like obviously she doesn't know what she's doing it, and as soon as they see that weakness, they're gonna be like scatter, right? And I think we think this in relationships. I think we think this in our business with our clients, right?

All of it. When, and it's like we forget about like, what's the upside here, right? Mm-hmm. How is this actually perfect? Like how is this a perfect opportunity for like other people to, you know, being involved and like, where is the opportunities for you to make, like when I, you know, when I worked as a paramedic, you know, there were certain people that were like, oh, I don't wanna get a new trainee on my ambulance or my, you know, I don't wanna work.

And I'm like, really? Because I think they're the perfect people. Because then you get to like mold them and shape them and they're so teachable. And like, you get some guy who's doing this for 20 years and it's like my way or the highway, you know, I'll way rather have someone new. But it's all that pers again, that perspective that we're choosing.

Like are we looking for the giftedness or why is it perfect? I don't know if that re relates or not, but, well actually one of the things that you said, it really makes me think about like, Teaching people cuz I'm just such a teacher. Like I was a dance teacher for 20 something years and just like, like when you teach someone, you get better at the thing.

Mm-hmm. So like, it's so, it's so wild to me that anyone would be like, I don't want someone new. It's like, you know how much better you're gonna get by having to like slow down and explain what you're doing to somebody you know, and to really like question why you're doing what you do. And I think that that's the thing that like people are most afraid of in a leadership position is the questioning or being questioned.

But it's like the questioning is the most important and most powerful place. Like that's what we know as coaches is that like, that's our job. It's to ask people questions, to help them clarify what is true and real and right for them. Yes. And so that like role where you get to be the teacher or the guide or the mentor or the coach.

Like it does something to you as well. It improves upon the way that you relate to the world and it, it changes you and it helps you grow and it makes you better. A hundred percent. Yeah. And the only reason that we would ever be afraid of the questioning is if we were inadvertently or not putting ourselves in a hierarchical framework where we're like, I mean like, yeah, 100%.

That's the only reason it would matter. Because if some and questions me or asks me something or even tells me like, Hey, you're doing it wrong. The only reason I would care is if I felt like I needed to be, right. Yeah. But if I don't care about being wrong or making a mistake or doing it wrong or screwing it up, like if I know that there's value in that and that that's not a problem, then there's, there doesn't have to be any defensiveness and all of a sudden you can have collaboration and learning and so much amazingness.

And so I think that kind of a leadership style to me sounds beautiful. Yeah. And I think like we have to also realize that people don't like to be wrong. What? You know, and like that it is, it is like, that's one of our biggest hurdles I think is like, is, is with anybody is like, well, we don't, being wrong again doesn't feel good.

And so we do have to do a lot of, I hate to use the word convincing, but really inviting. We have to do a lot of inviting people into the, like the desire to fail and to be wrong and actually like create desire around it, right? Because it's not intuitive for us. Or maybe actually it is intuitive for us.

It is intuitive. Intuitive for us to fail because if you look at like a baby learning how to walk, right? Like we're like, oh yeah, we're gonna get it. Like the baby's gonna get it eventually. And they're not having this like conscious dialogue around like, well, is it, am I gonna do it the next time or not do it the next time?

And like getting like fr, I mean there is frustration, but like, like there is this willingness, right, to try and fail. So I think it actually is very intuitive for us, but it's been programmed out of us. Yeah. So it all comes back to like, again, it's all deprogramming, right? We've been counter programmed out of what is natural for us.

And so any of this stuff really comes back to like, how do we get closer to ourselves? And this is something like, like I say all the time with this coaching work is like, it is the work of getting closer to yourself and knowing yourself more. Yeah. But so many people are trying to coach themselves out of who they are because they think they need to be someone different.

Hundred percent. Yeah. So when we look at these parts of ourselves, let's, let's take a minute and see if we can do a little programming, Chris, like when you look at these parts of yourselves, like these, these shadow sides, if you will, if that's a terminology that's, that works for you, and if not, we can replace it with something else.

But the, these parts of ourselves that society has told us are maybe less than acceptable or the parts that we're afraid that humans are gonna reject or whatever it might be that we don't want people to see. When you look at those parts of yourself, Chris, do you notice places where those things have in fact served you, maybe perhaps made you a better leader or even just served you in your life in some way?

I mean, I think like, just like the, the empathy, right? That like, like I can have for other people. Um, just deepens the more compassionate I become for myself. Yeah, and it's interesting. It's kind of like this, like, like, um, what's the word? Like, like a loop. It's like this loop where I'm way more able to like hold space for someone else, you know?

And then like, then I like end up being able to do that for myself. And then it makes me more able to do that, like in my personal life. So it's like my job actually helps me then, then helps me in my personal life. So it's like I can be really compassionate and neutral with someone else and just be like, yeah, that's not a big deal, and there's no reason to feel shame for that.

And then it takes me a minute to like apply that to myself. But then once I do, it actually makes me able to see like people in my personal life in a better light. Right? So I, I don't have, because I think in my personal life, I'm just projecting all of the high standards that I have for myself onto everybody else.

Mm-hmm. But in my work, I don't do that. Right. In my work, that's not present. So I think that like being able to do that for someone else then allows me to kind of like see in myself what I'm like helping them with. Mm-hmm. Right. The parts of me that I'm like, oh yeah, I so understand what they're thinking because I do, I think that about myself every day.

What if I shifted the way that I think about myself? Yeah. And then I'm less likely to project onto other people in my personal life. Those things that I was like ex, like the expectations I had for myself that are just not, they're not very kind. My expectations that I have for myself. Yeah, totally. A hundred percent.

I'm curious. If you think there's truth in this thing that I'm about to say, or if it's totally bullshit, like, cause I'm like, I don't, like, is this just us trying to play lipstick on a pig here? Because I hear the voices of people like, stop fucking asking me how this thing is serving me. Or stop asking me how this thing is, you know, contributing to my growth or whatever.

And not that I don't think people have to go there if it doesn't serve them sometimes for me. Like, I enjoy that question or I, I like that because it's like, I think whatever feelings we have about things are always valid, right? Mm-hmm. Always valid. We can always justify that. Like, however, I will say, like, my stepdad actually texted me the other day, like he, you know, I just started releasing these podcasts, getting ready for this thing, and he is listening to some one, some of, one of the things that I was teaching the other day on our worthiness.

Mm. He's like, Robin, he's like, you know, he's like, I, I truly, as I was sitting there listening to you talk, he's like, I just. Like, I just have such a, there's just such a feeling that you emanate when you talk and he, and he's like, I think, I truly believe that a lot of, so much of the trauma and the things that, like I have watched you go through and you have gone through.

He's like, it has just made you such an amazing coach and leader and empathetic human. He's like, I don't, he's like, I don't mean this to like, you know, diminish any of that hurt, but he's like, so whatever it's worth to you or whatever you wanna do with that. But he's like, I really do believe, I can see how your entire life story has really created this beautiful work that you're doing.

And I wonder if that feels like a useful framework to get curious about with people or does it feel like something that is, would potentially be damaging? You know, it's a tool though. Like, it's like it's just one tool. In our toolbox as coaches, right? That like reflection on how this might be helping you.

And there's so many other tools. And the problem I think is not like the, it's the wrong question, right? It's just the wrong question of whether or not it's useful or not. It's like, when is it useful? Is the question. Because like if you only have that one tool, right? It's the hammer thing, right? If you only have a hammer but it needs a screwdriver and you're just like hammering shit, like yes, it's not gonna, it's not the right tool.

And I think that like, yeah, it can be very dismissive and um, Like, like disconnecting from somebody. Yes. Right. Especially if they're really in pain at the moment. Right. And they haven't processed that pain and they're not ready to move on to seeing that situation any differently. Right. Then it's like, yeah, we're total, that's the wrong time to use that tool.

But if they're starting to move into a place where they might be wanting to reconsider, like, like question that event or question like the way they're interpreting what happened mm-hmm. Then that's like, might be the, the perfect tool to bring in there. And I just think it's about like when you decide to employ these things and like a good coach is going to be connected enough to their client, um, a good friend is going to be like, connected enough to their friend or their partner or their child.

To know whether or not it's an appropriate time or just to ask even. Right, right. Yeah. Like do, yeah. Do you want, like, do you want another way to think about this? Or are you open Exactly Now? Are you ready for, yeah. So I think, and I think that's exactly it is, it's like, I mean, just like when I was talking about like my relationship with my depression, like I'm, for me, like that idea of deep rest resonated for me, but for a lot of people it might not, right?

They might be like, no way. Like I'm in such a dark place. Like, and so I think giving yourself permission to notice, like all of these conversations that we're having this month, they're just that, they're just conversations. They're just ideas. They're just possibilities. And so to find what, what resonates for you and what doesn't, and to have the courage to just advocate for yourself and to just ask like, okay, if that doesn't work for me right now, like what else might, so if I'm not ready to ask that question yet, or if I'm not ready to go there yet, Let's talk about that, Chris, for the people who aren't ready to ask that question.

For those of you that are listening, right, what are your shadow parts? What are the parts of you that, that you feel ashamed of or afraid of, or that you might have spent your life judging are, my first question would be, are you ready to stop judging that? Yeah. And it's okay either way, but like, are you at a place where you're ready to, to have a new relationship with it?

And if you're not, Chris, what advice would you give to the people that that know that they are maybe secretly hiding a part of themselves or something about themselves that they are afraid or ashamed of, but maybe they don't know how to handle differently or they might be too deep in the judgment that they can't see another way?

Yeah, I think it's, that's when we start like questioning it, right? Because I think when someone's that, um, Immovable around something, it's because they really believe it's true. Right? Right. Like they really believe this thing about them is true. And so like the first step is just questioning it. Like whether or not that's actually what's happening, right?

Is that actually true? You know, about you? In what ways is it true? Is it true all the time? You know, like if we go back to like, like deep depression, like are you always in a deep depression? What it, like, do you experience times when you're not in a deep depression? How is that different? How did like, that's how I got to like my burnout versus depression moment was I, I was like, all right, I think, I think I'm burned out.

Let's find out. Like it wasn't, let's find out. I just like started like doing like a burnout protocol, right? Like, like I started treating myself like rec as I was burnt out. And then like, oh, I was like, Nope, that's not, it didn't work. Like this is different, you know? But it was because I was like willing to kind of find out more about it.

So I think that that's really like, you know, can you get curious about that thing? You know, can you get curious about like why it's there in the first place? Like, who told you that? Where did it come from? Where do you think that came from? Who's voice is it? Is it your voice? Is it somebody else's voice?

Mm-hmm. Right. Did you, was like, was this a message from your parents? Yeah, it was interesting. I was in a session with someone yesterday who was like, got like a very counter message to what society gives from her parents. Like, right? Like her parents were very supportive of like her being an entrepreneur, like they were entrepreneurs and like at the, but the me, that message is so counter to the like society at large message of like, no, you need to know exactly what you're doing and making money and whatever.

So like, She had this support at home, but because it was like in opposition to the greater society's message, she still had that voice. So it's like, okay, that's a voice from like society and, and those structures. And that's when it's like, okay, who benefits from that? Mm-hmm. Right? Like that's when we start asking questions like that, it's like, okay, you had a very different message from your parents, so you know, you had support who is benefiting by you believing this thing still, right.

So I think getting really curious about those places in us that were maybe not ready to shift or were afraid of shifting is like, I mean, curiosity is kind of always the, it's always like step one. It's just step one. It's step one and it, well, it comes One of the things too, in addition to what you said, and again for everyone, anyone listening, like take it or leave it.

Find what serves you, right? This is not, again, we're not on a hierarchy here. We're not up here on the pedestal tell, you know, preaching down to anybody. We're just talking. But like, all of those questions have been so powerful and like, and I, I can say like all the coaches that have coached me, Chris included over the years, right, has like, I can't even tell you the freedom.

The feeling of just utter relief that comes when that right, that right question get asked. And I know what it feels like when the wrong question gets asked and somebody pushes in an area that I'm not ready to let go of yet. It's awful, you know? But one of the things that I'll just add to that if, if it serves, is listen back to those questions that he asks Fi.

Just listen to them. See if you can expound on them. See if you can come up with your own. See if you can add to them. Write down that list of questions and just spend some time truly asking. And just allowing yourself to be curious and tap into some of your own wisdom. If I was gonna make up one, what would it be?

And then the last thing kind of comes around to what we can talk, like, what I love to do sometimes when I'm in that place where I'm just like, I know that the, you know, the heels of this thing are dug in pretty deep and I'm not ready to let it go or to move it. I'm not trying to. Paint late, stick on a pig.

I'm not, I don't want to have a pretty picture of it. I'm not ready for that shift yet. One of the things that I just love to do with myself is to just say, okay, let's just throw it in the sea line. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Say in circumstance, I feel depressed right now. Yeah. I feel sad. I feel lonely. I feel depressed.

I feel angry. I feel judgmental. I feel like I'm a fuck up. I feel like this was a total failure. I am a failure. Okay. If I just accept that, that, let's just say it's true, I'm just gonna give it to you. Then what? Yeah. So that has been something that for me has been powerful because then it's like, okay, I'm just gonna be in this depression right now.

That's just a fact of my life. So then what do I want my experience of this depression to be? Yeah. Am I willing to be compassionate with myself during the depression, or do I want to judge myself during it? Right. Am I willing to take a bubble bath and be depressed? Or do I want to lay in the bed, right?

Like, we're just gonna take the depression with us, but am I willing to decide and have a little bit of agency over what that experience is gonna be? I don't know. Do you think is that helpful at all? No, I think, well, I think, yeah, we, it's like separating out what is, what are the facts about this situation?

Like what is a circumstance? Because right, like some of the things, it's like, yes, I'm in a depression and like I'm telling myself that I'm worthless. Okay. Like, why am I telling myself that I'm worthless because I'm in a depression? Right? Like is, you know what I mean? And I think like, Like making it like very factual about like, well, what, and what is the depression?

Like? How am I experiencing the depression? Yeah. What, like, what are the actual like, um, physical, like, I, my depression's very physical. So like, what are the actual physical things that I'm feeling? Those are circumstances. Yeah. Right. Why am I making that mean that there's a problem? That there's something wrong with me or that I'm worthless?

Um, you know, why am I ju do I like, and I love that? Do I wanna judge myself in this state? Okay. Maybe the answer to that question is yes, but why? Then? I think the thing is, is like, if we're gonna start asking ourselves questions, we have to continue Yeah. Asking ourselves questions. Right. We can't ask one question and then stop.

So it's like, if I do, I wanna judge myself? Yes. Okay. Why? Why do I wanna judge myself? What? Go into that? Yep. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Well, I think like, if I, if I don't stop judging myself, then I'm just gonna lay here like in bed all day and not get anything done. Right. Okay. Well, so what's wrong with laying in bed and not getting anything done?

Right. And we just have to like keep like kind of like chipping away at it and be willing to like uncover what's there. And a lot of times the judgment is just, we judge ourselves cuz we think it's useful. Mm-hmm. Right. Like we believe that judgment is the way that we move ourselves forward. But I will guarantee you that anytime you've moved forward, you've slipped out of judgment.

Yeah. And you've slipped into something else. Yeah. Right. Like the judgment might have started it, but like what actually got you to take action was believing that there was a like utility in what you were gonna be doing. Mm-hmm. In some way or another. Mm-hmm. Totally. Hundred percent. And I love those questions that you ask, like, okay, do I wanna judge myself in this?

Maybe, maybe not. Let's ask why. Let's go a little deeper. And when you get good at asking yourself those questions and letting yourself explore it, what I love about letting the answer be yes or no is that regardless of which answer you give, you're giving yourself the power of choice. Which for someone who's in a depression, has been, for me, one of the most powerful things because we, deep in depression, what it feels like is just powerlessness.

Oh, there's so much out of your control. Like this is, I literally did a podcast episode on this this week about like, what are you responsible for? And we make ourselves responsible for so many things that we're not responsible for. And specifically, Like with our health and then also our mental health, like, you know, as a part of that.

And it's like, yeah, I, I might not be in control of like, what's going on with me physiologically and chemically right now. I need to radically accept that, that it's out of my control, it's out of my hands. And what are the things that I can do right. That are within my control, right? Like, give myself rest, take my meds.

Mm-hmm. Eat some food, take a shower. Like what are the things I'm actually in control of? Yeah. And what's, and I'm, am I willing to meet myself, Ryman here? Like what's the one thing I can do? Exactly. Just start with one, just one thing, one thing that I can do and what's maybe the one thing that I want to do?

Yes. Like, that's where like if the exercise and the green juices and all of that doesn't feel accessible, drop it. Right? Yeah. It's just an option. Like what, what is the one thing that I want to do? What is the one thing that I can do and meeting myself where I'm at because those small little baby steps, asking yourself a question, realizing that I may not have choice around this depression that I'm feeling right now, but maybe I do have choice around how I go through it.

Yeah. Like that one little shift may just be something that will give you a, a new and a little bit more space and a more freeing experience of going through the hard time, which is kind of nice. I mean, literally like my brain just like opened up, like, how do I wanna experience this depression. Exactly.

That's it. Right? It's, that's the question, right? That's the questions. No one's ever asking, right? That's the question. No one's ever been asked is like, well, how do you wanna experience this depression? That I'm trying to say by throw it in the sea line, I know it's not the right way to do the model, but sometimes, yeah, no, I mean, that is the right way to do the model.

Like when you, I can tell you, I can tell you it's the right way to do the model, right? Like, and again, by factually, like we put, we put things like that in like, you know, your depression, your anxiety, your A D H D, your whate, whatever it is, right? Like, it'd be the same as like I have a, I have a cold. Okay.

But like, what is the cold? Right? Like, tell me about the symptoms of the cold. Like we wanna get factual about it, but we can just say like depression. Like that's a thing. It's a fact I've got a broken arm right now. Or I'm my foot's in a cat. Right? Exactly. Like how do I want to experience it? How do I wanna experience that?

How do I wanna experience it? So I don't have choice around the thing right now. Yeah. But I do have choice around how do I wanna experience it. Yeah. So do I want to experience depression? Okay. I'm gonna lay in bed and let, but maybe I'm going to. Have somebody bring me flowers or buy myself flowers, but I'm still gonna be depressed and I'm still gonna lay in bed.

I'm not gonna take a shower, but I'm gonna have flowers on the table or whatever. Whatever. Yeah. Or I'm just gonna lay in bed. Like that's how I wanna experience depression right now. And I will just choosing and I will like, I think we all know and we, but we forget. I think we all know that none of it doesn't last forever.

Right? So it's like, maybe I wanna experience depression by just laying in bed right now, and in 20 minutes I'm gonna wanna experience it a different way, or 24 hours from now I'm gonna wanna experience it a different way. And I think if we go back to this, like it's, it's temporary, but I get to decide how I wanna experience it, which.

Why I think it's so profound is because no one asked that question. Because everyone assumes the answer to that question is, I don't wanna experience it at all. Exactly. They just assume the answer is to fix it. Right. I'm like, let's stop fixing it. We're not, we don't need to fix it. It's not a, it's, it's nothing to be fixed.

So when we shift out of this assumption for ourselves or for other people, that the answer is for it to not be there, then it opens us up to being able to ask more questions about, well then how do I wanna be with it? Yes, totally. That's amazing. Mic drop, all done.

Yeah. That's just one thing. It just like, you know, when your mind just like opens up around something. Yeah. I don't have to stop trying to shove this out the house. I don't try, I have to stop trying to get rid of it. It's like the college, you know, the roommate that you said could stay for a week and now tear it is two months later, they're just gonna be there.

Okay, now how do I, okay, fine. This, this thing is here. Yeah. What do I want my, how do I wanna do this? How do I wanna go through it? It's, it's so much more, it's, it, to me, it feels so much more empowering because otherwise you're just fighting with reality. Yeah. And I just like, I think like, why, I don't know why, like, I think this is a perfect example of like what you were talking about in terms of like, what resonates with you.

I've been talking about this stuff for years. I've coached on like every aspect of someone's mental health. Right. And I've always gotten to this point of like, well, it's a, it's a neutral circumstance, right? Like, I've gotten to that point so many times and just the idea of like, how do you wanna experience it?

Like, shifted in my brain something in a new way that like, We don't know when that's gonna happen, right? And we don't know when what's gonna resonate. So I think Robin's point of like, like, take what works for you from this and like, let that be your takeaway. And some other part of it might like be relevant or resonate later on.

Something else might like go away or you might, and it's just like, we just don't know. And it just takes, like, we do this work all the time and still our brains like explode around just simple like rewording or a simple shift in nuance around the way the question's being asked. Like completely changes the way you're like interacting with the, like the concept and with the thing.

So like we wanna like give it time and give it space and not be so hard on ourselves about like needing to get it right away. Like understand it. However you do right now, and let that be okay and move forward with whatever tool is working. A hundred percent. I love that. Chris, thank you so much. It's Beau.

And I just, I would just say, and don't give up on yourself. Yeah, don't give up. Don't, you know, don't, it's like, it's, it's all, nothing has gone wrong. This is all a part of your story. Um, my opinion and my belief if, if you wanna borrow it, is that, um, that there are no spare parts in this universe of ours that God didn't get drunk when he was making you, and, you know, accidentally that little piece in there or whatever.

I don't, I believe in that construct, but just the idea, it's the image, right? It's just the idea that like, what if there are no spare parts in this universe? Right. What if it's not by accident? What if it's not? You know? And it doesn't mean that you have to enjoy it or have a positive quote unquote relationship with it, but, so that's not what I'm trying to say.

But just notice what if it is here for a reason? What if the winter, as much as it sucks, and I sometimes feel depressed, what if it's essential? Yeah. So glad that spring is here. I was so over it and yet I'm not gonna say that it should just go away and never be there. And so something to just consider.

What if that was true for you too? And I think that's like, again, going back to the radical acceptance, because once it's here, we're not, it's not un, we can't unhappen things. Yeah. So as much as like my brain for a time wanted to be like, oh yeah, my trauma just should go away. I'm like, well, it's not going away.

Right? I can't unhappen it, but I can experience it differently by being like, oh yeah, like it's okay for me to be triggered. And it's also okay to me to, to meet, for me to interact with other human beings when I'm triggered. I don't have to hide myself from them because they're also adults who get to decide, like, you know, whether they wanna be in my presence or not.

Right. But like, it's not, it's not a flaw. Like the trauma's there for a reason. Like it was not for a reason, but it happened. Yes. It's the way my, my nervous system reacted to those experiences. Right. So like, it was protective, right. My, my nervous system was trying to protect me. And that's all, that was the reason was for protect.

That was the Yeah. Was for protection. And, and my nervous system thinks I need to be protected now, and that's no reason for me to hide that away, you know? And so that radical acceptance is what, like improves. It might not like ever change. Like I might still get triggered by the same things, but I, I'm gonna experience that differently.

And if I'm willing to like be an imperfect person with other people, it improves our connection. Yes it does. Or it shows me who does not deserve to be in my life. Because if this is not for you, yeah, they're not for me. Right. Like if someone can't handle that. Right. If it's too much for them and that's totally fine.

Like maybe they've gone through a life where they've never experienced those kinds of things. I mean, I am, most of my, like people in my life are queer people, co people of color and women. So yeah, they've all gone through trauma cuz those experiences just create trauma. Mm-hmm. But like, you know, on the off chance, But it's just, it's a perfect thing.

Just like, no, like this podcast, we've been Gavin for like an hour now. I love it. It's amazing. And people, like, there's so many people have told me like, Robin, you're just, oh, like one of my exes used to be like, you're so verbose. Mm-hmm. And like, you just be, just cheese, like 20 minutes at the max. Like even that, like, you just go on and on.

Nobody cares. Like, what do you think? You know? And it, and it's like, I'm like, you don't know that though. And all like, I just notice all this messaging and all this stuff and like, and yet I choose to believe that. I bet there's at least one person who loves this podcast who got something, a lot of it, right?

And so just notice that, like who's for you and who's not? And like, it's all good. We're all on our own journey. But just honor yourself because I think. You're beautiful the way you are. Hmm. That's my like, main thing now is like I've re, I've sort of rebranded myself as an intrinsic authority coach. Mm. Um, because that's mostly the work that I'm doing is like, I am helping people like become their self, like their self authority, like un like uncover their like ability to claim what is right for them, you know, with all this messaging that's coming out.

So I think like, yeah, that message of like, take what is for you. Find, find what is for you is at the heart of everything I do. I love it. And how can people find you, Chris? If they want more people can find me. Um, on Instagram my handle is the only Chris Hale, you can also go to my website. Um, it's the only chris and I have a podcast called You Need to Coach Bitch.

Um, so those are all the places that you can find me. And I actually just, um, I just completed a intuitive scheduling workbook. So if scheduling has been a pain in the butt for you and you've been like doing all these things that don't feel good for you, um, I highly recommend going onto my website and downloading that workbook because it's gonna help you create a life and a calendar and a schedule that looks and feels like you.

Yeah. I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. This was awesome. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Thank you so much.

If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot of it for me and share it on your favorite social media platform. And in the meantime, I just wanna invite you to remember that you are beautiful, that you are worthy, that you belong. See you next time.