Summer in Proverbs | Emotional Intelligence and Wisdom

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, I'm Kevin. Thanks for listening to our message. We strive each week to bring you relevant, practical, biblical teaching that meets you where you are. Hope you enjoy the message.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

So we're gonna come in and and uh uh spend some time with you talking um talking about Proverbs. So Scott, let me let me sit down. Um so in your your uh your dissertation was on let me adjust this a little bit. It's gonna blow. Your dissertation was on exactly what?

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Yeah, uh wisdom in organizational leaders.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

But but I want to start by saying mom said I was supposed to sit on the right and you were supposed to sit on the left.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

I know.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Bible readers will understand. See, yeah, see what we get. The rest of you that went over your head.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

I sit at the right hand of my brother. Uh so uh so what so what do you do? I mean, what what do you do? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

So I um I teach and I coach, I work with um students. Uh I teach at Indiana Wesleyan University, uh Christian uh university, uh very uh God-seeking, God-honoring. And um I teach in their doctoral program and I teach uh some master's level programs, uh mostly in wisdom and leadership and organizational change. Yeah. Every once in a while I teach a research course, but it's real nerdy and nobody cares about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Um of you will remember, you remember last year when we had the magician comedian here, Larry Wirtz? Larry was one of Scott's students, and how we connected was Larry needed some uh research with pastors. And so Scott said you should talk to my brother. So that's how that all uh all worked. And uh so, but you also uh for years you've written a book on emotional intelligence, you've taught a lot, you've coached uh uh management uh uh companies and companies and stuff like that. What exactly is emotional intelligence? EQ.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Um so um this this all fits into the uh idea of wisdom. Actually, so uh wisdom is this big broad concept that I hope we have time to dig into a little bit. Uh but emotional intelligence is uh the ide this idea of um uh emotional and social functioning, understanding what emotions are, uh that they are information uh for our bodies. Uh I believe we're fearfully and wonderfully made, and that emotions are really important. They give us all kinds of signals about things going on in our world. And the the question becomes the reason the intelligence behind the word emotion is that sometimes our emotions tell us things that are true and actual and real, and sometimes our emotions tell us things that aren't true and aren't real. Sometimes our emotions are big and they feel huge, and the situation that we're in isn't big and huge, and so our emotions can be super valuable and they can also get us into trouble, and so how we understand and use our emotions in relationships and decision making is what that idea of emotional intelligence is all about.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

So, what would it look like if if we were parenting a child and um and an emotion might seem big, but if you use the emotional intelligence, you would handle that situation differently. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah, so so realizing that uh the context of a situation that you're in, and a child in a supermarket having a meltdown, the the the child's brain isn't fully formed yet, and they have emotions that and react to things but but don't have the ability to completely understand. They just know they have a need in the moment. They want candy and they are not leaving the store without it, and they are going to make a scene so that everybody in the entire store knows that they want candy. And but as the adult in the room, we we play off of other people's emotions, and sometimes those situations make us feel like everybody in the store is watching us, and that since this child is melting down, I must not be a very good parent. So, and and if traffic has been bad and my stress level is already high getting to the store, now the child having a meltdown in the store makes me feel like I'm a bad parent and makes me act out of my emotions where normally I wouldn't. So recognizing the impact that our emotions have on us in the relationships that we're in and the decisions that we make, um uh go a long way in in terms of saying how we will behave. So a parent that has high emotional intelligence with that child in the store will realize the context that not everybody in the store is thinking about you. And that if you can manage your emotion, you'll be able to make a better parenting decision in that moment. You have to decide what's right, what the right parenting decision is. It's just not letting the emotion override any of your good judgment or your good decision making. So that's that's that's sort of the idea behind it.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, I can see that when it comes like uh a married couple um in spending money too. You have you have to stop and think about okay, is this an emotional decision?

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yeah, I'm not doing marriage therapy for you and Lisa right now.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

So you're not paying me enough to do that.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah. Um I I think if if what what what's the young lady's name in the booth? Grace. Grace, could could you pull up slide two? Slide two. I don't know if this helps or not. This might no no, I'm sorry. Maybe it's slide one. I should look at my slides. No, slide three. There it is. There it is. Um so there's this, there's this idea where where we have a rational brain, and and we're we're we're all created this way. This rational brain that we have is called the neocortex. It's the thinking part of your brain. It's about the the the width of a pancake, and it sits in the front part of your brain. This is all, this is where all of your thinking and great cognitive abilities happen. And but we also have another part of our brain called the amygdala, and it sits about uh right right in kind of behind your eyes, about where you're kind of feel that bump in the back of your head, kind of sits back there. It's gray in color, it's shaped like an almond. The word amygdala is Greek, and it actually means almond. The Greeks would would cut open people's heads to see what things look like, and this little part of your brain sits there. It's the site of your emotional functioning and your emotional memory. So this is when something scares you from your past. This is where that memory is stored to keep you safe if that same thing scares you in the present. Okay, so what happens is your um things come at you from your outside world and they get filtered through your amygdala first. And it sort of sits in your world and it says it's it works like a radar, mostly for fear. And when the amygdala senses fear, it sends a signal down to your kidney. Your kidney contains a couple of glands that sit on top of your kidney called the adrenal gland. The adrenal gland secretes a couple of hormones. Folks, this is just biology. This is, I know that you came here for theology and we'll get to that, right? But this is just pure biology. That adrenal gland secretes a couple of hormones. One of them that gets secreted is called adrenaline. When your body gets a shot of adrenaline, you know what that feels like, don't you? You can actually feel it. Increased heart rate, increased breathing, usually increased sweating. Kind of feels like you're on fire a little bit, right? When it's really severe. So that it goes up into your brain and into your muscles, so that if that thing that's causing you fear is dangerous, you don't have to think about it anymore. You can run from it. Fight or flight. You've heard of fight or flight. That's all I'm describing. Cortisol makes your muscles contract stronger, but the other thing it does is it blocks out your thinking. So this graphic that I'm showing you show is actual uh research uh by Dr. Bruce Perry. And what Bruce Perry has shown is that the stronger the cortisol reaction, the lower your IQ is in the moment. Have you ever been in a situation like a meeting or something, and like something came up, a topic came up, and it was kind of an emotional topic, and like you kind of knew what you should say, but you couldn't think of the right thing to say. Has that ever happened to you? I bet it's happened to you, like all the meetings you go to, right? You just but then you go back to your car or you go back to your office like 18 minutes later, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, why didn't I say that? What where was that where was that thought? That's cortisol. Has a half-life of about 18 minutes, so that as the threat leaves you, your thinking comes back. What's the big takeaway? What's what's the big takeaway if you know you've got adrenaline pumping in your body? Is this a good time to make a financial decision? No. No. This is this is what anybody sell cars in here? Anybody sell timeshares? Good. I'm not going to offend anybody. This is what they try and do. They try to get you so worked up emotionally that you're not thinking about a decision that you would make normally. Any young people in love? Any good reason to have thought about how you're gonna behave in certain situations before they happen? Because if your amygdala takes over and love is in your body, bad decisions. You can make a bad decision. We all can. This is just biology, right? Um, and so uh the the impact that emotions have on our ability to make decisions and and judgments is profound.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

So so the idea of of following your heart, you know, just just follow your heart is probably not the best advice for someone.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

I I think I think I think it depends on where your heart starts. If you've thought about, and this is where worldview, I think, comes in, that if you're a believer in Christ and your your values and your morals are strongly set, following your heart and following God's plan, uh for those of us who live in a multi-world view world, so we're which is actually, I mean, I probably live in this world, this split personality world, between a Christ server and some sort of hedonism, happiness, seeking pleasure, right? I like to have a good time. I do. I like to go to a Cubs game, I like to, I like to enjoy life, right? So, but but what's the uh where's the balance need to sit in there? Um so that following your heart, as long as your heart isn't overtaken by emotion and has some rational rational thinking behind it. Um so I I actually think it comes back to worldview.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Um one of the things that we've talked a lot about in um, especially in the small group last, and I talked about it a little bit last Sunday morning, is the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Uh and I think one of the words that you used in in some of the screens, uh, I noticed you use the words intelligence and wisdom and not not because knowledge and wisdom in scripture is not necessarily separate things.

unknown 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Um, and so guys that that were there on Tuesday night especially, I think that's helpful because we were trying to what we were saying is knowledge, and I don't think Andy's here. Is Andy Clark here? Is he? There you are. Andy said something that was I thought was really good. We were trying to just talk about knowledge and wisdom. And Andy said that knowledge for him, knowledge gives me power. Like I know this, it it gives me power. Where wisdom you realize that um is is how not only how to use that power, but it it's knowledge is all about you, where wisdom is all about what God has done. Yeah, what God has done for you. Um and uh there's a humility in wisdom, and there's a pride in knowledge. Um, how would you define those two things? Is that is that right? Is Andy right or is he wrong?

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Yeah, I love it. I Andy, if you're interested in a PhD, I know you've studied it. I know, I know. He is really I think there's a lot to tease out there, right? Um so so for me, wisdom is a um uh a broader context within which knowledge and intelligence sit in inside of that context. Um it's it's impossible to be wise without knowledge. Right. It it's it um you could have a lot of knowledge and not be wise. And and um uh so wisdom wisdom has a uh knowledge is is is pure use of information. Wisdom is knowledge uh it recognizes the intellect or knowledge, uh the cognitive, we call it cognitive, the affective, which is the emotion that we just talked about. Affect means emotion, uh, and cognitive, which means will or purpose. So wisdom has uh uh in its construct this idea of the mind, the heart, and the will. Now we have to come back to worldview again, though, because can you be wise in the eyes of the world? Can you use your brain, your heart, and your will to serve others outside the context of God or or spirituality? You might be able to, but how will that end up being directed to your own purpose, to serving yourself? It will be selfish. Um, and so when you bring a Christian worldview, there's a realm of spiritual development that is God-led that shifts the spiritual focus of that wisdom to serving God and by serving God, serving others, right? Um, so where did Kayla go back with the kids or did is Kayla still here or some can I talk about Kayla? Yeah, you can any any any public service worker in government could take kids on a float trip and know that that's a good idea, have a heart for it, and feel like that's their calling in life. But Kayla has God's call on her life, and so the context she's doing that within is is within the wisdom of God's world. And her purposes are bigger and different than people who would work in government and maybe maybe do the same task. You know what I mean? Yeah, so there's a there there's this idea for us in the Christian world, um uh of spiritual formation that associates uh go with human wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

So if you were if if you were uh listening to someone or encountering someone and you would come away from that and say, that's a very wise person, what things would you be noticing in that person's life as opposed to um man, they they sure know a lot. They're really smart. What would make you say that's a really wise person?

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Um Matthew chapter five, the Beatitudes. Um are they a peacekeeper? Um what is their is their purpose in life self-gratification or is it serving others? Yeah um you know I that's the humility that's that's the humility piece. Yeah, um you you you notice they're um they're not swayed by huge emotional um things happen, and they recognize things happen, and they can not react emotionally and still make good good sound judgment.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

One of the books that that I was in a uh group with Scott that he was leading, and uh we would read a book a month and then we'd get online and we'd talk about it, and then he'd do some teaching. But one of the books we read was Humble Inquiry. And I I think that's it's a really good book, but it it uh it the focus was on other people, how to invite other people into the conversation, uh just and and not somebody that just goes in and talks a lot about themselves and that kind of thing. Listening. Listening is a yeah, that would be another size, another size of somebody that listens more than they talk more than that. I think that's right. Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Um, we talked about this last Sunday, but how would you, if somebody said, Man, how do I get wisdom? How do you how do you get there's a lot in Proverbs that teaches that, but how would you say, how do you, how do you get wisdom? How do you become wise?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Um, I think you um constantly are working on your intellect. Okay, your learning. Uh, and in constantly learning, you're open to new ideas, new ways of thinking, and not just set in what you have. Already learned as always being true. I think that's true even in our uh our spiritual uh wor life that we were open to. Now, if if there's bad teaching, you're you recognize bad teaching and you always come back to truth. But so there's that there's that growing of the cognitive piece, knowledge, knowledge, um uh discern critical thinking, being able to think critically, and discerning discernment. So it's having a uh a process. Then there's also the affective component, right? Knowing when you're stressed out and the impact that stress is having on you can affect your ability to be able to listen to other people. When I when I'm stressed out, so when I was back in my career days when I was managing a team and leading a team and I'd had a long day, I might have had some travel involved, and I come home from work, and Kim's been home all day with the kids. And the minute I walk, you know, I'm just feeling the stress. I've just driven home. My stress level is pretty high, right? And I walk in the door and she says to me, You wouldn't believe what your son Zach did. How how my emotions are already high. If I'm not wise, I might go off on Zach and wish I hadn't. So, so it's recognizing my emotional state and whether this is a good time for me to act. I think we can all work on that. We can all work on um that. Uh, I think the other thing is spending enough time in prayer and reflection to recognize what your purpose is in life. And if you have a call on your life for something, is to follow that call. That's the cognitive part of developing wisdom. So I think there are all three parts of that are really important in terms of becoming wise. And and I'll so I'm an academic, and it takes us 10 words, what a normal person could say in two. I I recognize that. Um Monica, Monica Ardelt out of the University of Florida, has done some interesting research in a common idiom that we use in our saying, and that is the older I get, the wiser I get. Not true. It's not true. There's there's no data to support just because you age, you get older. What you what what the what the tendency, what the trap is, is to stop learning. May that never be. If you get older and you continue learning, and you continue growing, then there's a good chance that you'll continue in your wisdom. But just don't ever, don't ever stop learning. Don't ever stop trying to grow. Um yeah, anyway. Yeah. And that's that's that's Monica's research.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Um so you and you laid a couple of things out um in that answer. In Proverbs 2, it says that we're to pursue wisdom like we're looking for silver. Um, and uh, I think Peterson throws in the word gold instead of just silver because it's higher, you know, it's yeah, higher value.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

But um it's also very materialistic.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah. So so how do uh you you need to pursue wisdom? So continue learning. Uh you you said a little bit more, uh, you said you didn't use the word journaling, but reflecting, time, reflecting, that kind of thing. I think uh our world, and I've really noticed this as I've stepped back into a pastoral role, is people's lives are so busy that we aren't spending a lot of time reflecting. Uh that's not just this church, it's just our world. And um uh I think spending time reflecting um is a matter of fact, I wish I had more uh habits in my life that allowed for reflecting. Like um like when we were when we were kids and we would go fishing for a week on an island in Ely, Minnesota. Um, I hated that. You knew that, right? Um but uh how I longed to go back to that island for a week by myself. Not to fish, but no, not to fish. I hate fish, but but but I like canoeing. I like canoeing. But but you know that I think we don't do that kind of thing. Even vacations are packed with go, go, go, go, go.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah, I the only thing I would say to that is we choose not to.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Yeah. We all have we all have choices, we all have 24 hours in a day. And and uh uh yeah, so if you were speaking to uh young young families and that kind of thing, and and their life is go, go, go, go. Career, career, career, career, uh, earn, earn, earn, earn, that kind of thing. What uh and you were like leading a conference of young people, what what would you say to that generation of people?

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Do you feel like that's what you're called to? I don't want to get I don't yeah, I don't sit in j I don't want to sit in judgment of anyone who feels like they're working hard to provide for their family, yeah, as long as their family feels like they're growing and healthy and that's the calling and everybody's on the same page, yeah. Then then just that's the cognitive part of wisdom. If you feel like that's wise for you and your family in your context, then I then then I think that's where God has you. That's awesome. Yeah. And I also feel like if you feel like that's not working working, it's not what you want, you feel like you're on a uh a rat wheel and you're just spinning and spinning and spinning and going nowhere, then I think that's where your idea of sitting back and reflecting and and saying, is is this really where God wants me? That's where that comes. Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Yeah. How how does wisdom make how does wisdom make a marriage better? That wasn't on our list. Well, kind of it was. Yeah. How does how does wisdom make a marriage healthier?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Um it it realizes that the two become one, and that we grow together. So we learn together, uh, we love together, um, we um we recognize that I recognize when Kim is under stress, and this is not a good time for me to force her to make a decision, and she recognizes the same with me. So when I would had my career, we developed this sort of cadence. When I walked through the door, she greeted me, she allowed me to go, we called it shoe time. I had 15 minutes, go upstairs, change my shoes, kind of decompress, but when I came downstairs, I was fully engaged in the family. And so I think I think you find ways to um learn together, have heart together, and share a purpose, uh, a shared purpose. This is why that you know, when the Bible talks about not being equally yoked, um, it's it's it's it's it's real, and you're wise to step back and and think think through that.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, we we tend to put the equally yoked as as two Christians or two church of God people or two Methodist people, but it's so much more than just do you go to the same kind of church.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I would nothing's further from the truth than just because you're both in the same church in the same church, yeah, that that you're actually equally yoked. Yeah, that's right. I that would be my view.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yeah, yeah. Um, let's talk about uh you had mentioned something about aging, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you're wise just because you're older. Um is growing older healthier, um, because that's kind of where I am in life. Uh how does how would you say you may not, you probably would say just the same answer. How how does wisdom help you grow healthier? Uh like growing older, healthier. Like when I as I continue to age, I don't want to stop learning. Um, I I want to continue to to learn, but I I want to do things with wisdom as I grow older. So financially, uh I mentioned last week in sermon a balance in uh getting too involved in my kids' lives and letting them live their own life, but I want to I want to be balanced in how much I engage in that because the tension, the tension for me is I want to uh I want to uh be so involved and engaged in their life where I think they need space as well. So I I want to I want to be wise as I grow older. Uh any advice when it comes to wisdom as you grow older?

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Um listening, stepping back and being open to new ideas, and then coming back to your core truth, right? It's you you we we all know what helps us be uh physically healthy as we age and how we eat and how we exercise and how we sleep and and everybody everybody knows that, right? And yep we don't do it and so the wisdom is to figure out why am I not doing what the Lord has told me is right, and what what do I need to change inside of that? Yeah, yeah. So there's a I think there is a uh sort of a wisdom aspect to how you grow older.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah. So um in your research uh in wisdom and using scripture in particular, you you looked at different people that the Bible says are wise, are wise individuals. Um I mean, Jesus is I think Jesus has high EQ, perfect EQ, uh, high in wisdom. But are there other people in scripture that that that you think of as I mean, we say Solomon, but there are other people who say, well, that was a wise leader.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Yeah, Solomon's an interesting character, right? Right when it comes to wisdom. Um, because if you're uh you're studying uh 1 Kings and you're realizing Solomon gets a lot of credit for being wise. And a lot of Solomon's laments and and writings are to his son, right? Um Rehoboam, who within one generation doesn't absorb any of his father's wisdom. Right. What happened? I don't what kind of dad was Solomon? I don't know, we don't know, right? We have we have no idea. Um but scripture clearly tells us that that Solomon was wise. And and the the biggest point for me inside of that story is is that Solomon somehow knew to ask God for wisdom and to follow uh what his father David did in searching for God's own heart. I think that to me that's the biggest lesson in Solomon. You all know the story of the baby, they have two prostitutes, and there's a baby, and the baby dies, one of the moms rolls over and suffocates the baby, or whatever happens inside that story, right? And the baby's dead, and they bring the baby to Solomon, and he tells them cut it in two, and the one woman says, No, don't do that. She can have the baby. And Solomon says, Oh, you must be the mom, or whatever. I mean, that story is so intriguing to me. Um, because to me, that's more cunning than it is wise. But but Solomon, Solomon gets this credit for being wise. Um, the got God tells David and Solomon not to collect horses. But Solomon does, but yet he's credited with wisdom. Why? Because he asked God for it, I think. And and God blessed him with with being able to unite the kingdom of Israel in a way that even his father David didn't do. Now it only lasts one generation, and it's quite yeah, yeah. But but he did it. He was able to do that. So I you know, Solomon, Solomon gets attributed. I think Job is another uh in the Old Testament, the story of Job. Job gets attributed for being um being thank you for putting the putting some of the I would also say, I mean, I think Job had incredible wisdom, but you see his life lived out in in uh um his authenticity as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Yeah, but pretty humble, pretty humble, emotionally intelligent.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Can you imagine having all those people coming to you telling you you're a terrible dad and I want to divorce you and you're not my friend anymore, and listen to me, you're an idiot, you know, go go sit under a tree and die like a worm. And and can you imagine what that would feel like if that was you? That would if your best friends came to you and told you what you were doing was crazy, but you knew it wasn't, because can you imagine what that would feel like? But yet he had the emotional intelligence to not let the cognitive, his will or his purpose get in the way of that.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

It really is an incredible. And he did, yeah, it is. And he Job, I mean, Job laid it all out with God. I mean, he he told God exactly um you know what was going on inside of his heart. So he he certainly felt those things.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

I I think uh two of my favorite characters in scripture um are out of uh Exodus um 20, I can't remember exactly, 28, 31. Bezalel and Oholiab. Help me. Yeah, Bezalel and Oholiah, they get credited. They're they're they're gonna they're building an ark, they're building, and they're craftsmen and they're skilled craftsmen. Yeah, and they get credited for being wise. They're not intellects, right? This is we don't want to confuse wisdom and intellect. Intellect is a part of wisdom, but it's not fully wisdom. It's knowing how to use your intellect in the way that God has called you to use it, right? Wisdom is knowing, knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but it doesn't go in a fruit salad. Knowledge is knowing that wisdom is a tomato. Wisdom is knowing it doesn't go in a fruit salad. Skilled craftsman, like our dad.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah. Knowing what goes where, but but having broader knowledge that that the purpose of what you're doing is what you're called to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

I'm looking at Ray. Ray is in our group, and Ray said, uh knowledge is the tool, wisdom is how you use the tool. How do you know how to use that tool?

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Yeah. And being wise is other people recognizing that whole construct. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Um, so our time, our time is uh uh drifting. So I want to ask one uh question.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Let's say let's I might not answer it because I got one more thing I want to say. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

What is one lesson you wish I refer to? What is one piece? Okay, go ahead and say what you because I have to have the final word.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Proverbs chapter eight. You're not getting the final word. Yeah, yeah, it's your church. You get the final word. Um Proverbs chapter eight. Where does wisdom come from? Where does it come from? Had I been asked to preach today, this is what I would have preached. Proverbs chapter eight. Let's start with verse 22, and then we'll go back. Proverbs eight, twenty-two, wisdom says, I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be, when there were no watery depths, I was given birth. If you go back to Genesis 1, verse 2, God's spirit moves over the waters of the deep. Contextually, wisdom is there before the watery deep. All wisdom from the beginning comes from God. Then Proverbs chapter eight goes up to verse number two. Let's go to verse number two. There are just some things I want you to notice here, right? So it's a little bit out of order. So wisdom is with God, created by God, at the very, very, very beginning of creation. Proverbs 8:1. Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice? At the highest point along the way where the paths meet, she takes her stand. Wisdom is personified as female in this context. And and who what what's the purpose of wisdom calling out? What? That thing that was created in the very beginning by God, why does it call out? At the highest point along the way, where the path meets, she takes her stand. I want to take you some two thousand years, probably after this was written, to a place called Galgotha, where an innocent man was put on a cross, where the paths meet. Outside the city gate, where everybody walking by can see. For I have trustworthy trustworthy things to say. I open my lips to speak what is right, my mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness. All the words of my mouth are just, none of them crooked, or perverse. That man hanging on that cross by the path outside the city gates says, I am worth following. What I have to say is true. None of what I've said is wicked or perverse. It's the truth. Yeah. How about we stop? I think Proverbs chapter eight ha is is a Christophany. I I think Proverbs chapter eight is prophecy of the Savior that is to come and probably written a thousand years or more before crucifixion was ever even a thing in the Romans' minds.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

I think Proverbs chapter eight. Proverbs chapter eight is a is is a is a place to spend some time and reflection.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

That's just yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I I mean uh um I've got the New Living translation pulled up. Liz listen as wisdom calls out, listen as Christ calls out. Here is understanding, here as understanding raises his voice on the hilltop along the road, he takes his stand at the crossroads. By the gates at the entrance of the town on the road leading in, he she is mentioned in scripture because of wisdom. He cries, I call to you to all of you, I raise my voice to all people. You simple people, use good judgment, you foolish people, show some understanding, listen to me. That's what the cross is saying. That's right. Look to me. Um, for I have important things to tell you. Everything I say has been right. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

So I have to be on that. At the beginning in creation. Yeah. This was this this is wisdom is there in creation when the triune God creates.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

And then says, comes back and says, watch what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Yeah, that's good. Awesome. Awesome. Well, uh man, thank you, thank you, Scott, uh, for uh for sharing and being with us. And I'm I'm looking forward to Julie gets to preach next uh uh Sunday. Um we're not I'm not sure if we're gonna I we might be here. I'm not sure. We haven't decided, but um Julie's preaching next Sunday, and then uh we'll pick up uh where where we are as we go through uh Proverbs for the rest of the summer. And um I hope this has been helpful. I think one of the things that uh that spoke to me today is just the importance of slowing down. And uh my life has been has been uh a little bit. As a matter of fact, I'm having trouble, just confession. I'm having trouble staying up with Bible recap reading. Uh I'm reading to get to the podcast so I can get that on uh done. And so Lisa and I are gonna take some time this week uh to to catch up and go back and get back in uh the uh the rhythm of of even the Bible recaps. So uh it'd be a good time uh maybe for you as well if if you're uh uh frustrated or getting uh um uh if you've fallen a little bit behind, you want to catch back up on that. Um, but just the importance of slowing down and listening to God, learning uh another thing that you said that really uh came out to me as well is just knowing what your call is. I believe all of you have a call in your life, uh a divine call, and and knowing what that call is and how you uh live that live that out. A lot of people will say to me, um, you know, you you can never retire. Uh you won't know what to do. And they've confused my my job with my calling, uh, because my job is maybe to be the regional pastor or a pastor, but but my calling is very different, you know. Um, and so I don't ever plan to retire from a calling. Um ever. Yeah. So I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Yeah, I think the the the tip I would have for everybody walking out of here and is saying in that context of what you were sharing is when you say I don't have time to do this, I don't have time to do my Bible recap. Yeah, I would encourage you to change your language and say, I'm choosing not to do my Bible recap. Ouch. I uh don't don't be the victim.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Take charge. I'm choosing this. I'm I don't have time to exercise. I'm choosing not to exercise. Okay. It's your choice. It's your choice. Yeah, but but it it wisdom wisdom says you're stepping back, taking charge of your life, and saying, this is what I want to be true for me. So that's my that all of us, all of us. Yeah, I don't have time. I don't have time to pick up the phone at night and call my kids. I'm too tired. I'm too tired to call my kids who all live in you know different places. You know, I'm too tired. No, I'm choosing not to. I don't know. Sometimes it's motivating, and other times it's like, yeah, I'm choosing not to, because I'm too tired and I'm okay with that. Like, no judgment there, just recognizing that you're actually making all of these choices. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah, I probably should stop.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

That hurts. That hurts. Yes, yes, I think you should stop on that point. Yeah, hey, uh, yeah. Hey, let me uh let me close in uh in prayer. And uh would you thank would you thank Scott for for being here? And yeah. All right, that's enough. Um let me pray. Father, we thank you for our hour together. Thank you for the warmth of worship this morning and uh just the the sense of your presence in the room. Thank you, God, for um what's been shared. Uh thank you, God, for Scott and uh for the calling that you've placed on his life, for the influence that he has uh on uh people across this nation and uh and even if touched uh people around the world. I thank you, uh God, for his ability to communicate uh these truths in ways that um we can grasp and understand and walk out of this place today, um, being better prepared to pursue wisdom with all of our heart, with all of our soul, with all of our mind, because we know that is also how we love you. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

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