76: Balancing Structure and Soul: The Hidden Power of Modern Leadership

What if the secret to great leadership isn’t more strategy—but more soul?

In this episode of No Limits Leadership, I’m joined by Valerie Sandjivy, a global leadership mentor and founder of EllipsUS. With over 20 years of experience across France, the U.S., and Asia, Valerie helps C-suite leaders and entrepreneurs master the inner and outer game of leadership by balancing structure and soul, logic and intuition, discipline and play.

We explore how to communicate across cultures, lead across five generations, and unlock your team’s full potential by combining emotional intelligence with visionary structure. Valerie’s insights on presence, neuroscience, and energetic balance offer a radically refreshing approach to what leadership looks like today.

If you're building high-performing teams in a fast-changing world—this conversation is your blueprint.

Topics & Timestamps:

• (00:15) Intro to Valerie Sandjivy: Global leadership experience + intuitive coaching
• (03:24) Why cross-cultural leadership is a communication superpower
• (07:50) How traveling sharpens leadership presence and awareness
• (10:40) Asking better questions and leading shoulder-to-shoulder
• (13:06) The challenge and opportunity of leading across five generations
• (18:42) What Gen Z wants from work—and how leadership must evolve
• (22:01) Beyond money: Why purpose, authenticity, and creation matter
• (26:17) The mindset shift from survival to innovation and play
• (30:33) Using neuroscience to rewire leadership habits and behavior
• (37:25) Masculine vs. feminine energy in leadership—and how to balance them
• (46:49) The most powerful leadership question you’re not asking

Guest Links:

Valerie Sandjivy's Website: www.ellips.us.com
Includes her free leadership assessment and additional resources.

executive coaching, leadership development, team accountability, coaching culture, middle managers, high-performing teams, leadership communication, onboarding systems, questions for leaders, leadership podcast, self-leadership, culture-building, lead yourself first, Ken Proctor, Sean Patton, No Limits Leadership

Transcript

Sean Patton (00:43)
Welcome to the No Limits Leadership Podcast. am your host, Sean Patton, and I'm very excited to be having an amazing guest with us today. Her name is Valerie Senjave. She is an adaptive leadership mentor and business coach with over 20 years of experience.

She combines her corporate experience with creative intuitive approach to leadership, helping clients build scalable systems while fostering personal and professional transformation. And she is coming all the way from France. So this is a cross, you know, we're cross transatlantic episode right now. So thanks for, you know, staying up and being up with us today.

Valerie Sandjivy (01:15)
Thank you, Sean for having me in the podcast. Yes, I'm calling from France, Paris, actually. It's like 6.30.

Sean Patton (01:21)
Paris yeah, yeah. What time is it there?

okay, perfect. So you're end of your day. I'm just, I'm getting ready to have lunch. We're like perfect right now. ⁓ well you have such an interesting, you know, background. Can you share a little bit about your background and what led you to leadership coaching?

Valerie Sandjivy (01:28)
Yes.

Yeah. So like you were saying in the introduction, it's like I've spent 20 years in different corporate settings, different countries, actually, because I worked in France, but I worked as well seven years in the US. And I spent 17 years of those 20 years in doing management and leadership. So I think it's a how can I say, intensive experience, if I may say.

And I started my business, know, the business I am currently in like 11 years ago. So it's as well, you know, a lot of experience in coaching about leadership and mentoring. And what was, you know, the common thread on in my path is like I was always the one, you know, opening doors, opening doors, doing innovation, stepping in new operations, like going to the US, installing, you know, the team.

building the new business unit, working with Japan, working with Brazil, working with different countries, always the one, know, when it was time to do something which was innovative or something that nobody wanted to do, they would call me. She will do it. So I was going there and doing that. So that's a common thread, you know, like being in international environment and...

as well as in, like I said, opening doors, like innovation, stepping into new markets, stuff like that. It's the two common threads I want to highlight from my journey in the corporate settings.

Sean Patton (03:16)
working in those different industries and internationally, what do you say is the main way that has that experience shaped your perspective on leadership?

Valerie Sandjivy (03:25)
Yeah, like you were saying, it's like I work, even when I was in the US, I worked with, know, American car makers, but as well, know, Japanese and as well Brazilian. So even if I was located in the US, was a lot of international background, international, different, people, coming from all the countries. And what I want to say about, you know, those cross-structural environment and teams,

It's about, you have to know to shape your communication. Because first of all, English was not none of our first language. English is not my first language. So those people speaking Japanese, English was not their first language. In Brazil, the same thing. And we were in the American background. So you have to speak English at the end of the day because we are in the US. that's, mean, sense. So it shaped me in being good and clear.

and have this balanced communication. Like, which word I'm going to use? Is he understanding what I'm saying? You know, the clients, know, the team. And this is the first thing. And the second thing is adaptability. How can I adapt, you know, myself, you know, to different people, different countries, doing stuff differently? And we can't say that these, those people are doing better on worse. It's just different way of doing things. So it helps you, you know, to be able to change.

and to be able to be comfortable in the changes that it brings. The way of working, the way we are setting meetings, the way we eat as well is not the same. So it shapes us really to be adaptable and to have a clear communication and to make sure if we were both of us, it was our mother tongue to speak English, I wouldn't be so...

eager to make sure that we understand ourselves, which in a way we should. Anyway, it's not because we're speaking the same language that we understand ourselves. So it helps me lot to look at the signs. Is the team understanding what I'm saying? Do I have to repeat? Do I have to change the way I'm saying? Do I have to give examples? I'm very good at giving examples, metaphors. I love to give those examples because it helps people to understand.

what we are saying. So those three things, being adaptable, be comfortable with the changes and have a clear communication to make sure that people are understanding me and I understand them. And to allow this loop of communication and not taking the stage and speak forever and not listening to the other one.

Sean Patton (05:59)
Uh, you know, that's so important. just made me, you just made me think, um, how so often when we are maybe inside our comfort zone, whether that's inside of our own culture, inside of our own company, we take for granted that the other person is understanding what we're saying or that our perspective that we kind of share the same perspective or the same paradigm. And, um, you know, it's really interesting. I had, uh, I had a friend of mine who.

is originally from, he's originally from Afghanistan. It's actually his parents came to the U S and he was, he was talking to me and we was actually talking about how, you know, as I got, I got into my forties, how I had, I was getting wrinkles and, we were actually, and it is, he's going somewhere, I promise, but he was talking about how his game wrinkles and he told me, he's like, you know, what I've noticed is, ⁓ my background in the military, especially in, in my whole time, whether I was in Iraq,

with regular army or then I was in army special forces and I had to learn Arabic, but then I still was in Afghanistan. So I had to use interpreters and he's like, what I've noticed is that people that have worked in with other cultures or especially have worked through interpreters are very expressive in their facial gestures. He's like, I think that's what I've noticed. Like you're getting wrinkles. Like, so when you talk, you're very expressive and trying to communicate nonverbally. Cause I, and I was thinking back to that how

you know, because when you're working with an interpreter, you know, you don't want to look at the interpreter when you're talking to that person. You talk to the person as if you're speaking to them, right? And, but they're looking at you, but they don't understand anything that's coming to your mouth. So you're literally at the moment, completely communicating nonverbally and then hoping your translator gets it right. And I think that's just an example of that experience. I think it's why it's so important for leaders to travel and to go work with other cultures and get out of their comfort zone.

Valerie Sandjivy (07:29)
Thank

Sean Patton (07:51)
because you are so right that when you do that, you just become so much more aware of, of the nuances of communication and picking up on social cues. And, you know, I remember anytime I would go to the Middle East and I would come back, um, I know you've got some family originally from India. Maybe they have this there, but you know, when they would talk, they would always put their hand on their chest is like a, Oh, you know, thank you. Or, you know, it's a greeting and I would start doing that everywhere. I'd like meet someone, you know, out at the bar.

in Nashville and I was like, oh, nice to meet you. Holding the hand on my chest, you like I was in the middle of the desert or something and they were just looking at me I was a weirdo. So it's just, it's so interesting how, yeah, I think the awareness that comes from those cross-cultural environments can really be a superpower when it comes to communication.

Valerie Sandjivy (08:39)
It is because as well, know, like with Japanese and because I work a lot with Japanese and you you bow, you know, like, you know, in terms of respect. So we do that. I picked up on that, you know. And it's very important, like you are saying, like travel, because when you get out of your comfort zone, then you shape as well the way you hear. Because, you know, like I speak with an accent and you have no problem to listen to hear me because you've been in this multicultural environment. But other people could, you know, because, you know, they are not used to that.

Sean Patton (08:46)
yeah.

Valerie Sandjivy (09:07)
The world is like this, there are so many people traveling all the time, so we have to get used to that. And it's really, for me, like a superpower to be able to feel comfortable when someone else is trying to explain to you something and you are not, you it's not their mother language, English is not their first language. So you pay attention, and like you said, to the non-verbal things, and then you can pick up a lot, but this you keep it afterwards.

This you keep it because I'm sure that I bet you that you are still using that nowadays because it's a skill that you have and your body is helping you to understand everything, you know, like what's going on in the environment. You know, like when I am in the subway, always, you know, not looking, you know, what people are doing, but, know, very, I'm being very, you know, here, present, you know, that's what we are building as well, presence and leadership. You need to be present. You need to present, to be present about your mission.

You need to be present with your team. You need to be present in what you are doing. Be present in what you are feeling. So that's a big, big skill to have. And definitely traveling and being in different countries and being out of the comfort zone is helping tremendously for me.

Sean Patton (10:21)
And so you mentioned, you know, using metaphors, ⁓ you mentioned, ⁓ you know, really emphasizing the nonverbal and being aware. Are, do you have any other ways that leaders can adapt their communication style? So it works more effectively in different cultural environments.

Valerie Sandjivy (10:41)
Yeah, for me, one of the keys is don't hesitate to ask questions. Don't, you know, be, you know, we are the leaders. We have, we are, I mean, we are in charge. Most of the time we are in charge and we are asked to be in charge. be in charge. And it's not because I am in charge that first of all, the team doesn't have, you know, questions and doesn't mean that I have good answers as well.

So for me, it's it's working team, like a team. It's not me knowing everything, but it's me showing where we are going for different reasons that's where we are going. And to have everybody, you know, here, like I always give this image, it's like being a leader is not walking in the front and the other one behind, it's really shoulder to shoulder. But I'm showing where we want to go because this is my, this is where I'm, you know,

how can I say that this is my job to show you? But I can relate on the other one, the people from the team to have as well good insight, to have good questions. And if I listen to them, then we will grow faster altogether. I shouldn't, as a leader, we shouldn't think that we have all the knowledge and we shouldn't think that we should have all the knowledge. That's not right for me. It's like...

We have a team, we are a team, let's work with the team. And most of the time, especially when I was in the US, it was a very multicultural environment. I said always to the team, I don't have all the good ideas, I don't have all the good answers. It's not a privilege that I have, I don't have that. Do I have questions? Do I have ideas? I do, but you do too. And I want to hear them.

Because it will make us better all together. Because at the end of the day, if they don't challenge me, if I don't challenge them, what's point? I should go alone. I'll do it by myself.

Sean Patton (12:39)
Yeah. Yeah. What

you're, missing out on the, power of the team. Right. And that's, that's the, the leader's role is to capture as effectively and efficiently as possible, the true power of, of the team. And so I love the way you articulated that. And, you know, we talked about cross-cultural differences, but there's also other differences inside of the workforce, including, you know, generational. we're seeing, ⁓

Valerie Sandjivy (12:42)
of the team!

Sean Patton (13:07)
You know, I think one of the first times maybe in at least us history, I don't know how it is. You're like, well, we've got like up to five generations, really like five separate generations because, ⁓ technology and the world is changing so much faster that the differences in generations is also maybe greater than it used to be when sort of the pace of technology and the environment around us was slower. So

There wasn't that much difference in 20 years, you know, between maybe, I don't know, 1920 and 1940, but there's a big difference between 2000 and 2020 or, you know, certainly 2020 and what 2040 is going to look like. mean, my gosh, right? So as, as we see, especially Gen Z now moving into the workforce who has had access to all of the information in the world at their fingertips since they were a baby.

Right. They see things a little differently than, you know, people that are in their forties, fifties, sixties. What is, how is leadership need to evolve to harness the power of that full generational team?

Valerie Sandjivy (14:10)
That's a great question because you know, like you are saying, actually, you know, a generation before was defined, it was around 20 years, you know, to define the generation. Now it's more or less like 15 years. And I bet you like in a few years, it's going to be 10 years. And you know why? It's because to define a generation, means it's what's going on in the world politically, socially, with, you know, the technology. That's all what defines the generation. And as we go faster and faster, you know, with

AI and the technology is moving so fast that I feel that the generation now is going to be maybe like 10 years and then it's going to shift and shift and shift. That's one thing I wanted to say first. And then because of that, because it's going to shift even faster, we need as well to adapt ourselves faster to do some changes and the way... Let's speak about Gen Z right now because that's the generation which is coming at work right now.

We need to adapt ourselves to them. And it's not only in one way. I always say that to the leaders I work with, it's not only to the Gen Z to adapt themselves to the older generation, the Y or whatever you want to call it, or the boomers, because there are still boomers at work. But it's as well the previous generation to be able to adapt to the Gen Z, because it's a combination at the end of the day.

And one of the things we can say about the Gen Z so far, because I love this subject, so I'm studying, I won't say that I know everything about Gen Z, that's not what I'm going to say, because this would be wrong. But like you said, they have so much, so much information, you know, like there. So I don't ask, you know, my leader, I don't ask, you know, my...

my boss, I don't ask necessarily my colleagues, I'm going to ask Child GPT, I'm going to ask Google about the answer. I'm not asking my boss that I didn't answer, I'm going to see what the internet is saying about that, what Child GPT is going to say, or any AI. So it's kind of like, how can we even build more of this communication? Because the communication is going to be between the team member and the technology.

How can I foster a space where there is as well communication with the leaders, the teams and everybody? How can I foster that? And not allow only to have this one way communication with technology, which is great. I'm not questioning Google or whatever. It's not the point here. There is so many information, which is so right sometimes. Wrong sometimes, but right as well. And so how can I foster a better place for communication?

you know, human to human. Because you know what? This generation, probably they don't have all the tools to be able to communicate, you know, with human beings. So that's something. And why do we need this communication? In order for them and for us, you all together to understand what they want. Because you know, as much as StadGPT is good and brilliant, it's not going to give you the next position.

I am, because I am one saying what's happening here in my company. So how do we have this good combination of good communication, but with human beings? And as well, how can I understand even faster what do you want to do in your career? Because we can see in the Gen Z that there is this combination of being a

I want to say selfish, but not necessarily in the bad way of being selfish, but it's more like, what's in there for me? Okay, what's in there for me in your company? Why do you want me? What do you bring for me? What do you bring to me, you know, with your company? And like the older generation, you know, the boomers and the exes was, it was like, what can I bring to the company? You know, like me. But now we start to see like in the Y and with the Z, the Gen Z is like, what?

Are you offering for me to grow faster? And what is the interest that you have? What can you give me? Like, is going to interest me to stay here and to grow older? If I can say that. Even if know Gen Z are not going to stay 20 years in the same company, we have to be okay with that. So it's like, what's in there for me? And then there is as well this...

Sean Patton (18:33)
Yeah

Valerie Sandjivy (18:43)
topic of authenticity. I like to bring that because this is a generation which is very authentic. You know, I have teenagers around me which are part of this generation. They ask me questions that I wouldn't ask myself when I was their age. I wouldn't even think about that. You of course, know, you know,

the ability to access all this information helps a lot. But they ask themselves questions that I wouldn't ask. 15 years old, they ask questions, why do we need to do that? Why do we need to work like this? Why should I do like my parents? But there is no should, actually. What's in there for you? I always say that, what's in there for you? And that's what we need to adapt ourselves as leaders, because we need to find this right combination of

how I'm going to bring something to you and how you are going to bring something to me for as long as we are going to be together. And don't expect me to be there for 20 years. I won't. And I don't want to because you are going to grow. And that's fine with me. So it's such a subject.

Sean Patton (19:54)
Yeah, no,

I love that. And, you know, I think that's why to me, leadership moving forward is sort of the answer to all of that, right? Because work, especially with I feel like younger generations is so much more than sort of the transactional viewpoint that maybe it was 20, 40 years ago. And, and I had

a mentor of mine I was working with and he had this great question that I've stolen now to ask leaders, which is, everyone says, why I want to work with, you know, I want to work with top talent, right? I want the best people on my team. I want all that. And he just said, why would flips it around? Okay. Outside of compensation, why does top talent want to work for you?

So if you take away the transactional part of this is how much they get paid, you know, you're going to get paid this much, you get this benefits. It's like, well, I'll go somewhere else and they'll pay me, you know, $5,000 more a year to $2 more an hour. So you're like competing on price, like outside of that, to speaking to the point you were talking about, like, what are you providing them? What, and are you having conversations about what they want? And, ⁓ so I love how you brought that up. And also you really inspired me as I thought about some of your answers there.

of maybe it's even, I shouldn't your take on this. Maybe it's even more important for us leaders to look at what are the universal timeless principles of human beings, right? Like look back, like what is still the test of time when it comes to leadership and mindset and human dynamics for

a thousand years because those probably aren't going to change. You know, the latest and greatest things for the nineties or two thousands. But like, if you look back to like what stood the test of time in terms of like, what do human beings want and what, what is, what is universal across cultural, across ages, like who are we as human beings and what drives us? And I, it may be even more important as leaders to really understand that.

than any other time in history because the surface level things are gonna change so fast.

Valerie Sandjivy (22:02)
Definitely. And I love that. I love that what you are saying because it's so true. You know, it's like at the end of the day, like you said, it's not only about money. It's not only about transactional, you know, things. It's as well, know, at the end of the day, why are we doing all that? You know, like you are saying, what's the purpose, you know, of being even here, you know, in this human suit? You know, what's the purpose? know, what's happening? And it's not only, you know, to...

to make money. can be. mean, money shouldn't be an issue, shouldn't even be a topic for me. Money is only a by-product. And it's there, it's there, it's great actually to be there. But it's not the end goal. Even if this generation is speaking a lot about money, I don't know if you have that around you, but they are speaking a lot about money. Because like they said, money shouldn't be a problem, money shouldn't be an issue. But they saw their parents having issues with money. But they don't want that. And when we speak about that with them, it's like, what would you do with all the money?

And then that's where we see about the creation. And so that's why when I speak about leadership and all this, what is the purpose, what's behind, what is flowing through us. And that's why I always speak about the four pillars of the leadership being the vessel. The vessel who is going to allow this other energy to come in and to be able to be hold into this vessel. The vessel is like the four pillars.

We can see that, know, like self-lead, leading others, emotional intelligence, like you said, and the soul care. This is for me the vessel. But what for? I always ask the question. That's one of my favorite questions. Why? What for? So why do we need that? Why do we speak like when we refer to leadership? Everybody's saying the same thing. We need that. For me, it's the vessel. The vessel to hold what? Something bigger.

Something bigger, which is, know, for me, the energy, the frequency, whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter, which is a creation. So how can we create, you Because that's what we are doing here in the world. We are creating, actually. We are the biggest creator. So what do I want to create? So that's why money is not anymore the topic, because that's not the topic of the Genesians. It's not going to be that. Because for them, it's like money should be given.

We shouldn't work for money, it's a given, money is a given, we shouldn't struggle. Nobody should struggle, and that's true. But to do what? What are you going to do with your life if there is no money struggle? Which is perfect again. If money is not anymore the end goal, and I'm not saying that it was the end goal for any other generation, let's see that with this viewpoint. If money is not anymore the end goal, is? So for me it's creation.

Sean Patton (24:35)
you

Valerie Sandjivy (24:45)
It's innovation. What can we do? What else can we bring to the world? How can we improve the world? How can we solve issues in the world? How can we bring better ways of transportation, better ways of traveling, better ways of communicating, better ways of... It's all about that at the end of the day for me. And that can be there in the different corporate settings and organizations only if the foundation is there.

And the foundation for me is the vessel to be able to hold that. Because if there is no vessel, it's like having the water without the glasses. The water will be all around, all over. We don't want that. And we wouldn't construct anything, we wouldn't build anything. So for me, that's what it is about at the end of the day. To be able to bring that higher force, and we call it the way we want. It doesn't matter actually the name. For me, it's the creation.

And that's when the game is coming in. Let's play. That's what I like to bring to my leaders. How much do you play? We have so many struggles. When do you play? I don't have time to play. I say yes, because at the end of the day, that's what it is about. It's to bring innovation and to bring back this play environment. Do you enjoy what you are doing? Can we play more? And what is playing? Playing for me is innovation. It's creating.

What else can we do? What else can we bring? And that's more enjoyable, of course, than, know, dashboard and spreadsheet. That's we have to do, of course. We do have to do that, of course.

Sean Patton (26:18)
No, I love

that. There was a guy who was, I don't you've heard of him, but he was American sort of philosopher and thinker, kind of new age thinker around like 1670s named Alan Watts, or if you remember with Alan Watts. Yeah. So it's funny because it's funny, I follow some of his stuff and I just posted a quote from him yesterday.

Valerie Sandjivy (26:34)
That's the name I heard,

Sean Patton (26:42)
that says, you know, man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun. And it's like, I needed that in that moment. Cause it's a reminder to me too, that it's like to how I love how you said, how can this be fun? How can this be play? And when we, cause we, if we create a culture of fear and scarcity and, uh, it's never enough. We're always driving.

Valerie Sandjivy (26:47)
Yeah. ⁓ you see, perfect.

Sean Patton (27:09)
we get pushed into our stress response. We're in this fight or flight mode and we tense up and it takes away our creative thinking. It takes away our ability to create and be open to new ideas. And we're operating from this place of scarcity and fear, which, not, not abundance and joy. And that, and we are not our most creative, high thinking, high functioning selves when we're, you know, in that stress response. And you can't.

Valerie Sandjivy (27:36)
You can't, actually you can't,

because you spend all your energy on surviving. I've been in surviving mode for almost a good chunk of my life, always surviving because it was the environment. And know what at one point, what made me shift? It's not because I got out of survival mode. Because I think human beings, this is something that is probably a preset in our reptilian brain. So it's kind of like...

I can see life being a struggle and being in fear and being insecure. And I can always look at like that because it is part of life. And I can decide to look at life with different glasses. And if I look at life with a different pair of glasses, I change the perspective. So how can I look at life with innovation and playfulness? And it doesn't mean...

When we say that, the other part doesn't exist anymore. It does. It doesn't mean that we don't have challenges. We do. Actually today, I was doing something and something came up in the mail and said, oh, God, this is another struggle. And I was not expecting that struggle. said, OK, you know what? That's OK. We are going to know. We know how to we are going to manage that struggle. It's going to be OK. But for one good minute, I was kind of like in the emotions and saying, OK.

one more thing and I said, no, you know what? Life is going to be that way. It's always going to throw something. What do I do with it? You know, what do I do with it? know, and so it's a matter of me of perspective. There was always going to be fear and scarcity and, you know, any of that and, you know, insecurity is always going to be here. But do I want to look into that or do I want to look into the other part, which is creation, innovation and playful? Without saying that because

I'm looking there that this doesn't exist, of course it does exist. But it's a way of what do I want to see. And that's the way I shifted my mind, actually. Because I was so much in like healing, you I have to heal myself because there is something wrong with me because I feel insecure all the time, there is something wrong with me. So I was, you know, going in this spiral of healing myself, which I learned a lot. And I said, you know what, if I can go into this spiral of going down and trying to find the root cause,

I can go up and you know, try to find another route, is innovation and game and faithful. It doesn't mean that I am in La La Land, definitely not, because I know there is still, like I said, a and a dashboard to fill in. But how do I want to look into that? It's really a perspective that I want to bring to leadership today.

Sean Patton (30:17)
And yeah. And so that shift in mindset, you know, you have, ⁓ a lot, you have work in neuroscience and using neuroscience and changing your mindset and shifting perspective. So how does neuroscience help us understand and improve leadership behaviors?

Valerie Sandjivy (30:34)
That's a tool that I didn't work with it but I had a teacher in neuroscience because I said, know, to leaders that I work with, said, you know, how can you have your brain working with you and not against you? What does it mean? It means that we all have, you know, conditioned mind, we all have limiting beliefs, we all have emotions. It's not going to go away. We all have that. It's coming, you know, from generation and we...

It's useless to blame the generation before us. It's useless. It is what it is. I'm here now. What do I do with that? And this tool of neuroscience is a beautiful and powerful tool that everybody can use, right now, right here. It's a way to shift your mindset. And it's shifting as well at the neural pathways. You can shift.

And always give this example to the clients. If you keep choosing the same path when you go for your walk, you always go from here to here, always choosing the same path. This path, your brain knows. It's like when you're going from work to home or home to work, you don't even have to think. You don't even remember passing through these lights. You don't remember crossing the bridge. You don't remember parking your car in your basement or wherever, in your garage.

Why don't you remember? Because your brain is going in automatic state, which is good. We love that. But what else is in automatic mode that I don't want to? All those beliefs, all those conditioning mind. We all have that. So neuroscience is helping us to create a new pathway, neural pathway. How can I create a new one?

So of course at the beginning it's difficult. know when it's first of the year, you make all those great, you how do you call that?

Sean Patton (32:27)
New Year's resolutions. Yeah.

Valerie Sandjivy (32:29)
Resolutions, thank you.

You make all those New Year's resolutions and some of them fall after the second of the year, almost sometimes the first at the end of the day. And why? Because at the beginning it's a good intention and it's good, but the pathway is not there. So I have to be a little bit consistent. If I decide to go to the gym, I have to start going. So have to take actions, small steps.

No, you don't have to go around the marathon on the 3rd of January, that's not about that. But start to try this pathway. And then, little by little, this pathway is going to come a habit. And it's going to be something that you do in automatic mode. And the other one, because you don't use it so much, then you don't remember and you want to forget it sometimes. And that's the way you reprogram yourself.

But it takes, you know, at the beginning, takes courage and it takes determination to decide I'm going to take one step. And I always said to my clients, this is, you know, step by steps, little steps. You're not going to jump, you know, over the Grand Canyon. It doesn't happen here. And don't try to do that at home. Small steps, everybody can do small steps.

Sean Patton (33:46)
Yeah, so when you're walking through it, what does that look like creating small practical steps to help reshape habits and mindset?

Valerie Sandjivy (33:53)
But for example, let's give an example. Everybody knows all those big concepts. Resilience, being adaptive, exemplarity, authenticity, emotional resilience. I always ask the people I work with, what does it mean for you?

If you are not able, first of all, to give me a definition, we don't know where we are going because it's a big concept. Everybody wants to have trust. I always say to my clients, trust, you know, there is not a button on the people, on the human body, where you can switch, flip on and off. It doesn't exist. Because believe me, I would have found it if it existed. So how do you build confidence? How do you build trust in your team? So first of all, you are going to do one step. You have to give one task to the team, to the person, to the team, whoever you want to give.

You want to build trust. And then you are going to see if this person is doing that. And if he does, okay, give one more. And if he does, give one more. And if he fails at one point, it doesn't mean that he's failing actually. What skill is missing? What skill this person is missing? And teach him these skills or send him to a training or ask a coach to help this person with these skills. And then you add a little bit more and then a little bit more.

But it's not going from night and day that you are going to trust the team. It doesn't work like this. And by doing those little steps of giving and giving more and giving more and seeing if they are giving back the results, and if they come back telling you, okay, last time I failed and Valerie, she didn't blame me. She helped me to understand where I was failing. I don't like this word of failing, but for lack of other words.

And she explained to me, but if I start to yell at a person and blame her or him and lash out because they fail, what kind of leader I am? So they won't come back next time if they are doing a mistake. They are going to hide it very well and we are going to find it later on. So that's the way, one step. What can you give? And it's like, actually, it's like when you want to do that, you do the same thing as a parent with your children.

So first of all, I'm going to go with you at the bakery or at the store. And then next time I'm going to stay here and I'm going to look at you going there. And next time I'm going to stay home and I'm going to monitor you on my phone and to look where you are going. And next time, I know that you know how to do it and I'm not going to monitor you anymore. I know you know how to do it. That's the same way.

Sean Patton (36:28)
Yeah. I love that analogy of building trust and building new habits, ⁓ and creating new neural pathways all in the same, ⁓ sort of structure, you know, in that, one thing that you work with some is balancing masculine and feminine energy. And I sort of heard that in your response to the person who, as you mentioned, you failed or didn't reach the standard or didn't meet the expectations that you thought you had for them.

It was a little bit of the, generally would be considered traditionally masculine traits, like, you know, decisiveness and authority, you're giving them a direction and then sort of the empathetic side or more feminine side of, of energy you give there. And I've just seen this play out and talk to different people about how that works, how that happens in the workplace. And, you know, how, I guess let's start with how you, how do you define

I guess the balance between masculine and feminine energy when it comes to leadership.

Valerie Sandjivy (37:26)
Yeah, I started to speak about that earlier. It's like for me, the vessel I was speaking about with the four pillars is the masculine energy. You need structure, you need foundation. That's what it is. To allow the feminine energy, which is more about intuition, wisdom, and every leader, when you speak about them, when they have all those ideas, where is it coming from? I mean, I know that we are smart people, it's not the question, but where is it coming from? And why the other ones don't have those same ideas? What I'm connecting to.

What am I connecting to? So it's basically intuition. it's as well, for me, it's like all the feminine pillars, if I can call it those ways, it's like how can I nurture? What is creation? How can I protect as well my team? it's very much, protection is very much about the feminine energy. And how can I bring the wisdom, the wisdom about my contemplation, about what I read?

but how can I foster growth for the people? It's all about that. And those can only come if the four pillars are in place. Because how can you want something bigger, something wider to come in if the structure is not strong? It's like you want to build a house, a beautiful house, but the foundations are not strong. The house is not going to end up properly. So you may want to reconsider that. So the four pillars for me is really...

Be strong in leading yourself. How do you lead yourself? If you are not able to take care of your own emotions, if you are blaming the teams each time that there is something wrong, you can't foster growth for the team, if you can't foster trust with the team, you are not leading yourself. Don't expect to lead somebody else. So that's how it works. So working on our emotional intelligence, we said that, and soul care, we said about,

taking care of the right balance. And I said balance is not a 50-50, we all know that. The right balance between personal life and professional life, the vision that I have. It's not 50-50, I I can't say, okay, I'm going at five. Sometimes it's going to be five, sometimes it's going to be four, sometimes I'm going to work remotely home. It's okay. But when there is a deadline, how can I make sure the team is going to be there and not...

going to drag their feet to be able to meet the deadline. It's because I'm doing that with them as well. So I allow them as well to work remotely today because it's OK. And I don't want to control them all the time. But this, before being there, you need to the trust and you need to make them understand that we are a team. And I'm going to watch what you are doing, but not all the time. But at the beginning, maybe I will be all the time on your back.

But that I don't want to do on a long run. It's not sustainable. You can't be on the back of the team all day long. It's not sustainable in terms of time. And what type of... you don't foster autonomy. We want autonomous people because when you are... I always say to the leaders, when you are not there, what is the team doing? If it's nothing, it's not the right answer.

Sean Patton (40:35)
So what does it look like when an organization, maybe one you've worked with, has a good balance between those masculine energy or masculine pillars and the feminine energy or feminine pillars? What does that look like when it's in harmony?

Valerie Sandjivy (40:49)
So for me, it's like you allow, first of all, there is something that we don't like to speak. I mean, more and more, but not in every organization. It's about, like, first of all, intuition. Why can't I have an intuition? Many people, I don't feel it. I don't know why, but I don't feel it. You know, when you are recruiting someone, you are hiring someone, and you go through an interview, and the resume is good, it's perfect. We have all those skills.

And you know are in this connection with this person, at the end of the day you say, you know what, I don't know, the skills are there, everything is there, he answered beautifully to all the questions, but I don't feel it. Everybody once in their life said that, not only about freckling, but we don't feel it, I don't feel that. I don't feel this job, don't feel this food, don't feel this restaurant, I don't feel this person to be my partner, I don't feel it. And it's not, what is it? What do we let?

How can we let this part of us be part of the team as well? Because otherwise it's only masculine driven, results, results, results, and people can burn out. And it's not because the feminine is there that results are not going to be there, actually they are going to be there even better. Because it's going to be the nice balance between, okay, what do we do? What do we bring which is a higher force? What do I let...

you know, play as well, you know, with me. What do I let you go... Because the way I see it, usually, like the feminist energy is like going through me. I have this energy flowing through me. I don't know what's coming from it. can be this way, can be this way, can be any ways. I don't know what's coming from it. You know, it's coming when you are in the shower, when you driving your car. Suddenly you have this idea.

And it's not where you were working at your desk trying to figure out how to solve the issue that the ideas are coming. And I know that for a fact. You know why? Because when I was working in those corporate, when I was younger, very young at the beginning, I wouldn't go for coffee break. I don't smoke. I never smoked. So I wouldn't go for a break. I was always sitting at my desk trying to solve issues of the organization. And then at one point, was looking at my coworkers and my colleagues. They would go for a smoke or for coffee or...

just go and breathe some fresh air, I would come back and perform. And I said, what's going on here? I said, something is going on. And then I started to do the same, not smoking, of course, I could have, but decided to go for a break. And in those breaks, your mind is not trying to solve the issue, you let something else. And you come back and you have a new idea. Or when we say, sleep on it, don't answer now, sleep on it, what does it mean?

something is working, you know, in the behind there, I would say. And then you have the right answer. You know why? And it feels so right. That's all this. How can we allow that? How can we bring that as well? How can we allow that? I don't have the answer right now.

sleep on it and then come back. And I've been doing that now for many many years and all the time the idea that is coming, you know, when I step on it or when I'm going for a break, take a glass of water, coming back is better, far better than the one I would have found out, know, trying to figure out what to do. Not in a masculine way, feminine way.

Sean Patton (44:09)
Yeah. And in some ways when that happens and whether that is, you know, a, kind of your subconscious working in the background, whether that's a, know, when we could go, we're, we're sure at the end of our time, we got super deep on is that collective consciousness? Like, what is that? Like there's so many things that happen with that intuition, your body, your mind processing when you're not trying to force structured thinking and intellect on top of it that come forward. And then once it's there and it needs to be.

almost like, ⁓ flushed out and organized and put into, you know, a system. It's like, then you can use that intellect and the logic, logical side, and you can take it and, and, create from what you, what, sort of came from the subconscious or came from the intuition, from processing, whatever. But I like, I like to think that's a great way to put like the balance of those two things. Cause we all.

Valerie Sandjivy (44:58)
from whatever. Yeah.

Sean Patton (45:04)
We all know that, you know, my, my wife, she's it's funny now she's in tech sales. ⁓ but before that she was in graphic design and PR and she would tell the time how, how nearly impossible it is to be creative on a deadline. It's like, cause you're in that and it maybe goes back to a sort of for a soaker like that fight or flight, you know, neuroscience, like if you're in that, that stretch, like I have to do this right now, you're not open and you're closing off parts of your brain or maybe your neural pathways that are.

are working in the background to process your of your higher level thinking. And so I love the fact that you're bringing and helping leaders balance those perspectives and whether you want to call it, you know, any of the terms we used or masculine, feminine, or you want to whatever is comfortable for you. I think we can all agree that our best ideas come, you know, in the shower or you know, what happens for me is when I'm at the gym and I literally started doing this where

Valerie Sandjivy (45:47)
Where are they?

Yeah.

Sean Patton (46:00)
One, I'm taking like a pre-workout. I'm like, I've got caffeine run through my system. I'm at the gym, I'm working out. And I literally have in my little like satchel I have with me, I started carrying around a tiny notebook because all these awesome ideas come to me when I'm just like sitting there working on it, thinking and it's like, and so I just have to write them down and capture them and bring them back. so, you know, wherever that works for you, I love that.

Valerie Sandjivy (46:21)
And I find phones are good for that because we always

carry them. My phone is full of notes that I had at the gym when I get out of the shower, when I'm driving. So that's good because you can record. You don't have to type. You can record. So I'm a good recorder because I record so many things. You're right. It's coming like the gym. Agreed. All the time.

Sean Patton (46:41)
know, Val, this has been awesome.

all things we talked about, or maybe something we didn't get to, is there kind of one final message you want leaders to take away from this conversation?

Valerie Sandjivy (46:50)
One final message would be, I think we covered a lot, one final message would be for me is the question I ask always the leaders is how do you want your team or the people you work with to talk about you when you're not in the room? And be that. How do you want them to talk about you and be that? If nobody wants, you know, the team or anybody to talk.

about us, you bad, know, nobody wants that. So how do you want them to talk about you? Okay, he's, know, there, he's give advice, he's, he's training us, he trusts us, you know, or she or whatever, you know, and he gives us, he gives us autonomy, you know, and he has a good communication and he process, you know, his emotion, he never lash out, you know, and he's always, you know, that

in this presence and we can feel that ideas are coming and he's able to read us very quickly. That's the way I want people to talk about me. So, what do need to do for that? So that's the contemplation. I love that. I always say to all the people I work with, process that. It's because you are doing something toward that that people are going to speak about that this way, about you this way. Not because you tell them I'm the good leader.

it doesn't work, we all know that.

Sean Patton (48:04)
I love that. might start using that with some of my clients are with, you know, I would a great, what a great workshop exercise, you know, cause leadership can be sort of this amorphous philosophical thing, which is the reason I, I get to have a different, I get to talk about leadership, you know, a hundred times on the podcast and with my own thoughts and it's different every time because there's different, so many parts of this, but to individualize it and, just say, okay, when you're out of, yeah, I love that when you're out of the room.

Valerie Sandjivy (48:07)
Yeah.

Sean Patton (48:32)
and you're your best leader. Like what do you want people to say about you? Have them write out, you know, that in a paragraph form and be like, okay, well that's our working document now of how are you going to live up to that? That's a great example.

Valerie Sandjivy (48:41)
Exactly.

And you do it as a workshop or you do it to begin, you know, when I work one-on-one, for example, with leaders. This is the first question I ask, actually. The first and the last. This is the first. OK. And then now, how can we build that? Like you said, how can we build that? Because that's the end of the day, that's what it is. Nobody is going to say, I want them to speak badly about me. Maybe some would say, I want them to be afraid of me. No, that's OK.

Okay, maybe we can walk while we want them to be afraid of you. That's another topic.

Sean Patton (49:12)
Yeah, that's a whole other podcast. That was a, uh, well, Valerie, this was awesome. I really enjoyed, uh, this,

this episode and getting to know you in preparation for this. And I love the work you're doing. If, uh, you know, people are listening, they want to learn more about the work you do and get in contact with you. Where do they go?

Valerie Sandjivy (49:29)
The best way is to go my website, which is going to be ellipses.us.com. So you are going to put the link for the listener. So that's the best way because from there you can find my LinkedIn, you can find my social media, can find as well free content. There is a free leadership assessment. It's free, it's like with the four pillars and the part with the feminine energy as well.

So there is an assessment which is free, you can take it, and then you can reach me out if they want more information. It's all open. And I love this kind of things.

Sean Patton (50:06)
Yeah, this is

a fantastic conversation, Valerie All right, well, I'll let you enjoy your evening there in Paris and I'm going to go have lunch. So it was, thank you so much. I look forward to chatting again soon.

Valerie Sandjivy (50:08)
Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. bye.