111: Why High Performers Still Feel Empty (And What Leaders Miss) w/ Randy Lyman

In this episode, Sean sits down with physicist, eight-figure founder, and author Randy Lyman to explore the missing piece in leadership most high performers never address: emotions. Randy shares how logic, strategy, and execution alone eventually led him to burnout—and how integrating emotional awareness transformed his leadership, his businesses, and his life.

This conversation dives into emotional intelligence as a leadership multiplier, the science behind emotional energy, why unprocessed emotions quietly shape culture and performance, and how leaders can begin leading themselves first.

If you’ve achieved success but still feel something’s missing, this episode will change how you think about leadership, fulfillment, and growth. 

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Introduction
00:52 – Meet Randy Lyman
01:49 – When Logic Hits a Ceiling
02:24 – The Emotional Wake-Up Call
04:29 – Why We Avoid Emotions
05:49 – Sean’s Story of Suppression
07:20 – The Inner Child & Approval
09:27 – Strength and Vulnerability
11:19 – Emotions in Leadership
13:21 – The Science Behind It
15:27 – Releasing Emotional Energy
17:01 – The Cost of Avoidance
18:54 – Emotions & Physical Health
19:47 – Burnout and Breakdown
21:42 – Healing Through Feeling
22:45 – Leadership Starts With Self
25:20 – Testing a New Leadership Model
26:55 – What It Looks Like in Practice
27:22 – What People Really Need at Work
32:15 – Leadership as a Cheat Code
35:21 – Where to Start
37:29 – Consciousness & Reality
40:01 – A Simple Experiment
41:02 – Final Thoughts

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Guest Links -Randy Lyman

Website: https://www.randylyman.com

 Book — The Third Element: https://www.randylyman.com/the-third-element

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/randylyman

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randylyman

No Limit Leadership is the go-to podcast for growth-minded executives, middle managers, and team leaders who want more than surface-level leadership advice. Hosted by executive coach and former Special Forces commander Sean Patton, this show dives deep into modern leadership, self-leadership, and the real-world strategies that build high-performing teams. Whether you're focused on leadership development, building a coaching culture, improving leadership communication, or strengthening team accountability, each episode equips you with actionable insights to unlock leadership potential across your organization. From designing onboarding systems that retain talent to asking better questions that drive clarity and impact, No Limit Leadership helps you lead yourself first so you can lead others better. If you're ready to create a culture of ownership, resilience, and results, this leadership podcast is for you.

Transcript

Sean Patton (00:00)
physicist, an eight-figure founder, and a spiritual emotional expert all walk into a bar. Just kidding. That's not a joke. That's today's guest. Today, I sat down with Randy Lyman, a physicist who built multiple eight-figure companies and then discovered something most leaders miss. Logic and execution alone don't crave fulfillment or sustainable performance. We talk about why emotional intelligence isn't soft, how unprocessed emotions quietly shape culture and results, and why leading yourself is the real competitive advantage.

If you're a high performer who's achieved success but still feels something's missing, this conversation will change how you see everything.

Sean Patton (00:52)
Welcome to No Limit Leadership. I am your host, Sean Patton. And today I'm joined by Randy Lyman. Randy is a physicist and entrepreneur who spent over 40 years building multiple eight figure companies, including an Inc 500 business and hold several patents. By every traditional measure, Randy had achieved success, but along the way he realized something critical was missing. Intelligence strategy and execution alone were not enough to create lasting fulfillment or sustainable leadership. That realization led him to integrate emotional awareness and inner work into how he led, resulting in a personal transformation.

and over 30 extra growth across his businesses. Randy is the author of the bestselling book, The Third Element. And today we're gonna explore why emotional intelligence is not a soft skill, but a leadership multiplier. Randy, glad you hear me.

Randy Lyman (01:31)
Great to be here.

Sean Patton (01:31)
And so, you you're a trained physicist, which is interesting and different and awesome, at least for, you know, people on this show and your career in that I imagine was built on things like logic and systems and measurable results. But how did that mindset initially shape the way you approach leadership?

Randy Lyman (01:49)
Well, initially I took the approach of thinking and planning and taking action. And here's the plan. It's logical. Let's just do this. And I pushed people as much as I could. And I achieved a lot of success that way. But after a while I got in my own way. And, as things changed in my life and I became more aware of the emotional component of the human experience and I started incorporating those principles into my business leadership, then my businesses really took off.

Sean Patton (02:14)
Was there a inciting incident or some major revolution or was it a series of things in life that started to create that transformation in thinking for you?

Randy Lyman (02:24)
Well, I met a woman in 1989 who ended up spending three years with, and she introduced me to the emotional spiritual side of the human experience. And, so I was already learning about the law of attraction and the fact that we are, none of us are victims and everything around us is a reflection of us. And we can't change the world around us. We can only change ourselves. Why was going through a challenge, about a year into the relationship with people at work and people in my personal life who were incompetent.

And Maria, my mentor would say, my partner, she would say, look at yourself. Everything's a mirror. You got to look at your own confidence. Well, I tried to be more confident in my mind. I tried to be more confident in my actions and the problems just didn't go away. They actually got worse. Fortunately, I went to a four day business communication retreat. And on the third day, we went through an exercise called the seven levels of truth. And my issue was my competence. So my partner takes me through the, my partner in the exercise takes me through the exercise.

And finally I get to the deepest level where something a family member had said to me 12 years earlier had triggered me to believe that my family didn't believe in me. And so I was working hard to be competent, to earn the approval and love of my family. Now this was all happening subconsciously. Well, we get to this deeper level, man. I've just, I break down in tears. I'm bawling and letting all this emotion out because when I was 17, somebody told me that they didn't approve of me. That's what I heard. That's not what they said.

That's what I heard. So I go through this big emotional release and I go back to work four days later. And magically the people around me who were incompetent the week before suddenly became competent or they left my life and being a scientist, I'm all about cause and effect. So I'm like, wait a minute. I had this big emotional release. This has nothing to do with my mind and my thoughts and my planning. That has nothing to do with my action and getting things done. This had to do with my emotional release. And then suddenly the physical world around me changed and I made the connection.

And that just really changed my life.

Sean Patton (04:15)
It's so interesting that, you you took, let's just say in your case, right? You, met someone who introduced you to these concepts, then you, started doing the, the inner work and you really open to that.

What keeps us from seeing the world in the way that you're talking about?

Randy Lyman (04:29)
Aside from the fact that people just don't talk about emotions much, once we start to open Pandora's box of emotions, it for me, it was really scary. I had a lot of anger and loneliness and just a lot of pain that I didn't want to deal with. And I pushed that all down. Also, when I grew up, there were people in my neighborhood, friends of mine whose parents were very emotional and their life was chaos. And I just said, no, I'm not going to be emotional. can lead to just chaos and trouble. And so I'm going to avoid that. So a lot of things led to that.

Also, you know, as men, when we're going through middle school and high school, if we show any softness at all, if we show any, just caring or compassion or any female traits at all, we're slaughtered because here's all these men, testosterone is coming on and we're all trying to make our way in the world and, and establish ourselves as men. Well, we learned that we just have to be tough, turn off our feelings and work through life with our mind and our body.

And when we get a little older, we get the opportunity to realize there's the third element, that third component, the emotional part of being human. Now don't make decisions based on my emotions. I don't use emotions to manipulate people, but I always want to be aware of my emotions. And the only way to feel joy and happiness and a deep connection with the people around us is to be willing to feel the pain. And as soon as I opened that box of emotions, a lot of pain came through and it's messy and people know at some level they know.

that the journey for emotional healing is gonna have some pain and it's gonna be messy. And so we avoid it.

Sean Patton (05:49)
you

This is a very relevant topic and journey for me when I've been on for, I would say intentionally, maybe the last five years, but especially the last two. And what I realized is that I started creating value for myself. And this is of course in the moment, right? You don't realize you're doing this, but doing some work now and reflecting back that there was this sense for me around my value.

will come from what I produce from the work. And specifically what it came to, what I noticed was one thing I could do was I could sacrifice myself. could suffer. I could put myself through suffering. And to do so was this noble act. And then people would give me praise and show value because I was

tough enough or willing to go through suffering. And in order to do that, there was a lot of mindset you're talking about of emotions are weakness, emotions get in the way of logical decision-making, emotions get in the way. And it was the cycle I created that allowed me to avoid emotion. And for me, it has been specifically around

sadness, avoiding sadness at all costs. And I don't know if this is an emotion or not, I don't understand your take on this, but the identity around being seen as a failure, like being seen as a failure to me was like, it was like worse than death, you know?

Randy Lyman (07:20)
Well, yeah, because when we're four years old, or even eight years old, if we're not accepted by our family, and we're left out on the street, we're gonna freaking die. That's the reality. Now, today, it's not going to happen that way. But if you go back to 2000 years ago, and all the part that's human instinct that we still operate on that program of human instinct is if we're not part of the tribe, if we're not accepted, we're going to die. And so we need other people's approval and ego needs other people's approval. So we have

This inner child, which is a valid part of us. don't want to kill the inner child. The inner child is, the child that likes to drive fast in a car or climb mountains. And that's where our creativity comes from. That's where our joy comes from. That's where our deeper connection comes from. It's not about being childish. It's about those qualities that we're really strong when we're a child. So if we turn off the pain, then we turn off the creativity. We turn off.

the ability to enjoy life. But if you go back again to when we're eight years old or 10 years old or even 14, we have to be accepted. We have to fit in with our family because if we don't, they're going to fight us. And if we make them look at themselves, for God's sakes, they're definitely going to push us down and hold us down and push it and keep us, hold us back. So we learn how to get along so we can survive. That's part of being human.

Sean Patton (08:37)
Mm. It does all go back to a lot of that. And I think, you know, it's interesting for me, I think everyone, to your point, has this tribe around them and these different reactions. And I grew up with a single mother, awesome single mother, but

I think for me, you're right. As you get to those teenage years, was this maybe over indexing for those masculine traits. But like I had to really prove myself as a tough man. that, I was, you know, a wrestler and I was a wrestling team captain. I was a tough guy. And then I went to the army, right? And then it was like, couldn't just go to the army. I got to go to the infantry and then I got to be a ranger. And then that's not enough. I'm still not proven. Like it's still like, it was like this, this drive as I look back around,

proving something that I was tough enough or man enough. And in a way I was sort of running away from what I saw as weakness in those other traits.

Randy Lyman (09:27)
It is a paradox because in some ways we avoid our emotions and we want to prove ourselves and in some ways we have to provide for ourselves and protect our family and those masculine traits have value. They absolutely have value, the same as our feminine traits of caring and compassion have value. being human is a complex journey and those traits that you learned, you brought value to the world.

learn how strong you were, you learn how capable you were, you brought value everywhere you went, where you were able to use those traits. The challenge is, they're not the only answer, and we have to find a balance somehow. And very few people want to talk about the balance because they're afraid. For one, for me, I was afraid of talking about my weaknesses. I was afraid of talking about my fears. I was afraid of talking about my vulnerability because I didn't understand that when we're truly strong, we can be vulnerable.

I just thought vulnerability meant weakness only and it doesn't. It can be, and it should always be referred to as I am strong enough to be vulnerable or I'm going to find a way to be strong enough and centered enough in myself that I can be vulnerable and still be calm and confident.

Sean Patton (10:35)
I love you brought that up and you know, even use the, the word inner child. And so, you know, if people are listening or, know, business leaders are listening or owners and founders are listening and you know, kind of like you, right? They probably had some initial success cause they put their head, they put their head down. They worked, they made logical sound argument. They got to this place and they hear things like inner child and emotional vulnerability, all these things. And they're, they're like,

not even sure how to even, know, this like fluffy thing, you know, yoga class like deal, and then they're like bringing it into their boardroom. How would you advise them? Like what's the mindset shift they need to make to be able to even start that process?

Randy Lyman (11:19)
Well, I'm to make a plug for my own book, the third element right now, because in that I explain my journey and explain the logic and reason from a physicist's point of view of how our mind interacts with time, how our body interacts with time and how our emotions interact with time and how the energy of our thoughts, our actions and our emotional wounding, the resonance of that with the law of attraction that's part of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. All that is explained. So once we understand

that the world around us is created in response to our thoughts or actions and our emotions, and we can make sense of it, then we can look at it like logical adults and start to decide how we change our thoughts, how we change our actions, and how we work through and heal our old emotional wounds. So again, in my book, The Third Element, I explain that really clearly. Frankly, it just comes down to harmonic resonance, which works for sound, it works for

nuclear energy, works at a lot of different levels. Now we're taught that opposites attract and an electromagnetic force, then opposites do attract. But most every other vibrational interaction in the universe is all about resonance. So that's how I explain it. And that's how it made sense to me. And that's how I was able to incorporate it into my life, because I avoided my emotions. After seeing so many emotional people failed. And I'm not an emotional person today. I'm very comfortable with my emotions, but I'm not

sharing this message because I think emotions are the only way I'm sharing this message because after 36 years of looking at the world this way, it all makes sense from a physicist point of view, from an engineer's point of view, and from a person who's built multiple successful businesses. I have the experience myself to believe what I believe. This isn't just theory. This is reality for me.

based on the mistakes I've made and the course corrections I've made.

Sean Patton (13:09)
This is amazing. So give me the synopsis as best you can on the physicist, the law of attraction, the science behind this or the science behind the law of attraction that you mentioned.

Randy Lyman (13:21)
Okay, so Heisenberg's uncertainty principle 1932, I think it was a 33. That led to the double slit experiment, where photons are shot through two slits and they hit a wall in the background and they they make a pattern that would indicate that the energy of the flight coming through as a wave. But as soon as somebody watched it just with their eyes, the human being watched these light beams go through, suddenly the light particles acted like solid particles. So

The energy that creates our reality is simply waiting to be called into form, whether we observe it or whether we need to create the next moment of our life that we're going to walk into for that experience. All of it exists at once, multiple dimensions of, ⁓ from higher dimensions. There's me in a whole different city. There's, there's you having a podcast with somebody else that reality exists, but we can only experience one reality at a time based on our senses.

That reality we experience is co-created for us by the universe based on the frequency of our thoughts, the frequency, the energy of our actions and the energy frequency of our emotional wounding. So as we move forward and this energy that creates our physical solid reality, which is all just energy anyway, none of it's solid, physics has proven that and we know that. This is called into form based on the experience we need. And again, that's proved by the double slot.

or double slit theory. And so it all links back to, physics, but I've observed how, when I changed my thoughts, my reality gets better. We've all observed how, when we change our action, it affects our reality and our reality gets better. And through my own experiences and the experiences of hundreds of people I've worked with, when they're able to feel their underlying emotional wounds, the loneliness, the sadness, the jealousy, whatever it is.

they've pushed aside when they can feel that completely. Not just touch the surface of the pain. They can embrace the pain, they can feel it and release it through EFT tapping through acupuncture through working out through punching a punching bag and turn that emotional energy into physical energy and let it go. Then their world gets better. And I've watched that so many times. I know it's absolutely true.

Sean Patton (15:27)
have a mentor in conscious leadership and I studied that for several years. And one of the, I guess it would be scientific, maybe psychological principles, I'm not sure where the line is at this point, of emotion is that if you allow yourself to fully feel and express emotion, they last like 90 seconds or less. Like it's gonna flow through you as opposed to stay in you. What's your thoughts on that?

Randy Lyman (15:47)
So,

so, okay, that's like storing gasoline. If I store gasoline in a metal container, I can burn it 10 or 20 years later and it still burns the same. But once I burn it, it's gone. Now, emotions are the same way. The challenge with emotion is it's like an onion. There's several layers to work through, but each time we work through a layer and we burn off that energy, like burning the gasoline, it's a thermodynamic reaction. It's potential energy that's turned into heat and it's released and it's gone. that, that emotional energy is no longer.

⁓ within our energy field and within our body, however, restoring it. So the law of attraction is no longer obligated to remind us of that energy, that wound that we have an opportunity to heal. So it really relates to the first law of thermodynamics that energy is, is neither created nor destroyed. It's simply transformed. by diving deeper, as you said, into the emotion and feeling it completely.

just transforms through our physical body. Emotions can only come through our body, not our mind. Those emotions are transformed into energy and heat and released.

Sean Patton (16:45)
Can you explain the consequences of not releasing or what was the proof we're looking for if we don't, someone says that's all nonsense. What are you talking about? I'm fine. And they don't release those emotions or there's no intention to do that. How do we know what are the consequences of that? Because clearly if that's true, there's consequences.

Randy Lyman (17:01)
Okay. So emotions are bigger than time and space are our thinking mind is never in the present moment. It's always thinking about the past, the future is a stream of thought. It's like music. look at a sheet of paper. It doesn't mean anything of music, but if you play the music out over time, not in the present moment, but over stream of time, it makes sense. our thinking mind is never in the present moment. Our physical body is only in the present moment. can't feel my body from yesterday to tomorrow. And our emotions being bigger than time and space.

Are the same until we feel them and they can only come through our physical body. So I have gone through God, thousands of experiences from past sad memories and pain as well as happy memories. And when I'm able to connect with that and I feel it through my body, it feels exactly like it did. 10 weeks ago or 10 years ago or 50 years ago. And I have watched people fight through problems for weeks and months. And I sit down with them and I hold the space and I asked them some questions and people are very

comfortable with me and I'm comfortable with my emotions. So they get to a place a lot of times where there's tears a little bit or a lot. Again, I'm a man. I'm not embarrassed. It's just part of being human. And I release it or they release it. And they come back the next day and say, my problems went away. When you see that happen hundreds of times. For me, that's scientific proof. I cannot write an equation. I cannot measure it with a meter. But I've experienced it enough that I know that's the path to peace is to let go of the pain.

Sean Patton (18:20)
I even see, and what you take on this on that, holding those emotions in, not releasing them, I guess for, I guess it's a scientific term, right? Stress, turns into stress, right? Biological stress. And we know that basically almost all chronic disease is caused by chronic stress, which then causes inflammation, which then causes, you know, everything else. So it's just like, I picture that.

Randy Lyman (18:30)
Yeah.

Sean Patton (18:44)
you know, things like health span and lifespan decreasing because the body breaks down under, I guess it would be holding, holding all that energy in.

Randy Lyman (18:54)
Yes. Can we hold that energy and there's tension around it that disrupts our energy field in our body. Now I didn't know Steve jobs. My take on Steve jobs is that he was smart and he accomplished a lot, but I believe that he had a lot of emotional pain. wasn't willing or ready to look at maybe he didn't have the right guidance. Maybe he knew it was there and he wasn't willing to feel the pain. He died of cancer. The guy had a good life. He had all the money in the, in the world. He needed to find physical cures for his challenge. But again, this is my opinion because he wasn't

willing or able to feel that emotional pain, that tension within him disrupted his body to a way where it caused cancer, it caused disruption, caused unease, disease, and that disease killed him. And I watch a lot of people I know who've had physical challenges and I help them through their emotional release. And suddenly the problem with their back or their ankle or their digestion goes away because they worked through the emotional release.

Sean Patton (19:47)
I have personal experience with this in the sense that I agree that my personal experience aligns with what you're saying. I've experienced that somatic release in my body. When my stress is high, I know the parts of my body that start to get tight, like in the shoulders or wherever causes this pain. And I also had an experience, my first business was not a success.

my first business was I got, made an early decision around a lease deal. The scope of the requirements for the business because the franchise doubled. And so I went and got a, you know, with no, by the way, Brandy, no business or industry experience at all, a $600,000 SBA loan. And

and got myself into the point where like, even when I had solved some of the operational problems, so we had a gym franchise that was doing $47,000 a month in gross revenue was still losing money because I had got over leveraged in these other financial things. And I just tried to work my way out of it. And ignored it because of this, wanting to feel like a failure and ignoring my emotions. And it turned into like, I almost killed myself, like in terms physically, like I had open wounds and hives that they couldn't explain. turn and stress hives.

My appendix almost burst. Like I had, I turned to drugs and other things to try to kill, like it's ignoring this intensity of emotion because to your point earlier, like the early part of my life, the answer was always just push through it. Like in the army, the answer is just push through.

Randy Lyman (21:17)
And it feels like, and

ironically, healing the emotion helps us heal our physical body, but we believe that feeling that emotional pain will kill us. It's the opposite, but we believe our ego, our ego's designed to protect us from physical pain and it protects us. It thinks it's protecting us from emotional pain. The funny thing about the mind is it protects us from everything except itself, but feeling the physical pain is the only way through it. Otherwise.

Sean Patton (21:27)
Mmm.

Randy Lyman (21:42)
It will kill us. And there's so many, your experience in so many documented situations and look at your brothers in arms who have come with PTSD and who have just had challenges around the things that they weren't willing to feel. And I hope that you've seen some of your friends and colleagues who found a way to feel that pain and then their life improved.

Sean Patton (21:59)
Absolutely. absolutely. As we look at, know, this, foundation of my belief and in this podcast a lot is we're centered around my belief that leadership starts with self. And I feel like that's, there's a, there's a leadership part in organizational leadership we're talking about, but I feel like a lot, this is centered around leading yourself first in a way so you can show up as the best self for others in your,

in your organization, right? Or your family or whatever, or whatever version that is. So what I'm really interested in, because I'm not often around someone that has the, understands this to your depth. The, you mentioned the understanding the energy field and the fact that we're making up, we're not making up, but our emotional responses or actions, how I'm going to describe that, the energy that we're dealing with, that is then

Randy Lyman (22:45)
You're influencing our future.

They're influencing our reality. Yeah.

Sean Patton (22:47)
Influencing our future.

right, Why is, you know, it's something I've, you in my world, I guess I've heard and been around and actually is aligned with my belief structure because of lot of the reasons that you've mentioned, but around, you know, consciousness sort of creating a reality that where

How do we, how do we have, why is that so hard or why is this a tough concept for, why do we struggle to have others accept this as reality?

Randy Lyman (23:11)
because there's very little evidence of success because very few people have tried it. And who's talked about it and other people are talking about it now. I'm not the only one, but for years I watched people talk about our thoughts and our actions. And I stood in or sat in the audience and just said, no, there's emotions too. And that's why I decided to write the book. Once I started writing the book, was a took four years to really explain it clear and a way that people would enjoy reading it made sense.

But I've seen this for so many years where I've gone to a lot of gurus and teachers and, and, ⁓ retreats where people just talk about our thoughts and our actions, because that's what we can measure. And it's not messy to talk about our thoughts and our actions. And, and even when doctors and psychologists, psychologists talk about mental health, it's really emotional health, but they can measure the brain. They can measure our mental responses. They can't measure our emotional responses. So it's easier to just talk about it as being.

thoughts and thought patterns. And some of it is, and all that's valuable. But if we don't get to the underlying emotional challenges, then that energy just stays forever. And so it's, it's messy, it's painful. There's not very many good examples. And there aren't that many people who've really used the emotional ⁓ consideration, the approach of emotional consideration to create great success. But if you look at some people like, for example, Herb Keller, Herb Keller founded Southwest Airlines.

And he took the approach that people are emotional, people should enjoy their work. And we're going to make this a fun experience where we treat people like spiritual beings on a human path. And, and yes, we're going to plan and yes, we're going to have schedules, but we're going to treat people differently. And when he did that, he created success, but how many other people like him are, are really known in the world where they've created great success through a more humanistic approach to business.

Sean Patton (24:55)
Yeah,

I know there's like more examples, but there's maybe a lot of examples throughout the world, but that at least, especially in this country, those big giant companies, right, eventually go public. And now they're beholden to quarterly financial statements. And that becomes the purpose of being as opposed to, and they sort of lose, potentially lose their way or lose the ability to approach.

the purpose of their business in the way that you're stating.

Randy Lyman (25:20)
Well, the other thing is for me, it was scary at first, but I had multiple businesses when I started doing this and I took one department out of one of my businesses and I experimented with a group of seven people. And I said, if I fail, I'm not going to lose my business, but imagine being a corporate VP somewhere. And if you try this and it fails, now you don't get the promotion or you get fired or you get ashamed forever and you got to take care of your family. can't take that risk. I was in a place where I could take the risks. I took the risks. made some mistakes, but I learned how to do it right.

And I learned how to find success without losing my entire company. I didn't lose anything, but the fear of losing was huge because it was unknown. So I experimented small. I got better and better. And eventually I took the principles that I developed and I used them throughout all my companies and we achieved great success doing that. But it's a risk for somebody who is trying to figure it out on their own where they have to put all their cards on the table.

chips on the table, so to speak, really is what it comes down to. not the cards, it's all the chips out there. I was able to bet a few chips and I won and I expanded on that, but not everybody gets an opportunity to do that. And that's another reason why I like to do corporate coaching now too, is to help people see what works, give them real tactics, real programs and processes that I've already proven and I developed by making my own mistakes and people don't have the luxury of making those mistakes.

Sean Patton (26:13)
Yeah.

So let's get into that, because I feel like we've talked a lot about the rationale, the reasoning behind this, science behind it, and the self-leadership component. But what does this look like when you step into a team of seven, or a team of 12, or a team of 20, and you're like, we're going to change the way we do things around here. What does that look

Randy Lyman (26:55)
Well, for me, 40 years ago, even if somebody gave me the program, I would go in with ego, I would go into force and I would push it through. And that's not the way to do it. That's who I was. And that's not the way to do it. The way to do it is to first look at ourselves and find our, identify our own doubts, our own beliefs, and find as much clarity as we can within ourselves outside of work, take the time to do that. So when we show up, we don't have the doubts, we don't have the tension, we don't have the worry. Then we have to say, I'm going to put my ego aside and

Sean Patton (27:02)
Yeah, as you might.

Randy Lyman (27:22)
And here's where physics comes in again. Power is the ability to complete work. Well, I'm a leader, meaning I'm leading other people. can't do the job myself. And my power to get the job done depends on the people I lead and depends on how effective they are. That's really a leader is, is helping other people be as effective as they can be. Well, nobody's for a for us or against us. They're all for themselves. So when I show up,

And the people I lead can truly feel that I'm there to help them succeed. Now you have to have the right team. can't have a team of a bunch of losers, but even mediocre people can really rise once they receive praise. Once they understand that the leader is there to help them win, they'll get behind that leader. There's three components that are more important than salary. The first one is acknowledging somebody for who they are, who they are uniquely, whether they're

good at work, whether they're a great soccer player after work, whatever, acknowledging them, getting to know them enough that we can talk to them like a real person. Second one is people need to feel like they're contributing. Most people's life feels kind of meaningless, but if we can help people feel they're contributing at work and they're part of the success, now work's the most important thing in their life, and success at work is the most important thing in their life, so contribution.

A sense of contribution is the second most important thing. And then the third thing we already talked about with this, which is a sense of belonging. So if I take the time to learn a little bit about the people I work with and I talk to them as people and for me, I was mechanical. was all, it was all robotical for me at first, because I had these concepts and I had to figure out how to make them work. So back in 1999, I carried a pad of paper in my pocket. So I would talk to somebody, how was your weekend? say, my daughter had a soccer game.

I would say, oh, great. What's her name? We'll ask a few questions. I walk around the corner and I pull out my pad and I write it down. Okay. And this is, and this is systematic, but eventually it becomes automatic. So then I would go back either three days later or three weeks later and say, Hey, how's your daughter doing in soccer? How's that project going with your dad rebuilding that 55 Chevy or whatever it might be. Now, suddenly they think, wow, the CEO paid attention to me. And now

I have a sense of importance and I've been acknowledged. And so they don't look at me like the distant leader in the, in the office upstairs. They see me as a fellow human being and I listened to them and I paid attention to them and what happens next. They listened to me and they pay attention to me and then we can accomplish things together. So I put my ego aside. I pay attention to other people. And then a big part of this also is if we're going to do something like group problem solving, I have to teach, I have to coach and train my group on how to solve problems.

The four steps to problem solving or any project. So I get them involved. I teach them how to make decisions. I also teach them how to disagree with each other. And that's really big. So if two people disagree, they learn to speak from first person. They learned us to listen before they respond. They learn not to take things personally. So eventually when there's a problem between two people on the team, they don't have to come to me. They learn to go to each other and they learn. can express when you do this, this is how it affects me. When you do this, this is how I feel.

I just want you to know that. And nine times out of 10, people find common ground and they find a way to work out their challenges. So this is a big investment for whoever the leader is. They have to invest the time in listening. have to invest the time in coaching. have to implement processes and programs. But then what happens is whether it's three months later or a year later, that leader gets their time back because now they don't have to micromanage. Now their group gets stronger. Now their group knows that they're there for them. And

When they say, Hey guys, I need help with this. That's vulnerability. Then people say, yeah, we'll help you listen to us. Of course we'll help because we know you listen when they believe we're not going to listen. And that belief is based on our behavior. Then they're not going to share their ideas. They're not going to take risks. So we work on ourselves. We set the environment. We'd listen to others. We coach our team members on how to approach life and work differently.

And then we have to find ways to praise people. And for me, the first time I had to praise somebody who was doing a mediocre job, I was scared. my God, if I tell them they're doing great, they're to do worse. Or if I tell them they're doing great, they're just going to coast. Well, the funny thing is I tried it because the person who told me about it said, try it. So I did. And that person who's doing a mediocre job, they lit up and suddenly they tried harder. And then I had more reasons to praise them. So we have to find a way.

it's genuine to praise somebody for something that's real. It can't be fake. People feel that. But try to find somebody who does doing a crappy job and watch them. And we find we go looking for look for something positive they're doing. And when you get that opportunity to praise them, offer genuine praise, and then step back and watch and won't be immediate that over time, you'll watch that person rise to be the best they can be because they've been acknowledged for who they are. And these are simple things to do, but they weren't natural for me. I had to learn them and I had to

to develop them when I had to make a lot of mistakes along the way. And to me, that's what leadership is all about. How do we show up in a way to help everybody we're leading be the best they can be?

Sean Patton (32:15)
You know, I, when I think of what you just said, the thought that came to mind was I was, I was telling someone earlier about how one of the things I love about being a coach myself and a meta performance coach at Novus Global is that I feel like I found a bit of a cheat code. Even with this podcast, I found a cheat code because like I, I'm getting paid. I'm supporting my family, whatever it is, right? I'm getting reward for getting better myself. Like as I

is I elevate and I do the work on myself, right? Like I get better at what I do outside. So I'm like, man, I found this like positive feedback loop, right? That of like cheating to become the best version of myself. And the way you just framed leadership is that positive feedback loop. Like if a leader can look at, if I implement this, it's yes, I'm going to get more results. Yes, you know, maybe it shows up on the P and L or whatever, but like, I just found a cheat code to, if I approach leadership the way you just said,

It means I'm up leveling myself. Like I'm doing, I'm getting better as a human being. I'm improving my experience of life, of the workplace. And then I'm in, and I get to make other people's lives better. And then I get better results. And as they do that, I get to do more. So to me, what I heard was you just described a, in a way, a mindset, a framing of leadership that shows people, if you approach leadership this way, what a cheat code to create the best.

experience of life you can for yourself by becoming the leader that you're capable of and doing the work to make to help other people in their lives and their performance improve.

Randy Lyman (33:51)
And it's rewarding financially. And it's fulfilling to see people find their strength, people who doubted themselves suddenly now they find their strength because it's not just at work. Now they go home and they interact with their family from a more positive place and they interact with their community from a place of strength and clarity and as a leader. So as leaders, I believe we have the privilege and the responsibility to help other people improve. And when we do that, then we find our own success.

Sean Patton (33:52)
It's over morning.

Randy Lyman (34:18)
We can never make it about ourselves. The moment we do, we're going to fail. And that took me a long time to learn because I had a big ego. I still got ego, but I had a big ego and it was all about me and look at me, look at me, how good I am. Well, that, that got in my way. But as soon as I was able to get out of my own way, then I truly found success.

Sean Patton (34:34)
I love this. The next question or the next line for me as we wrap is like around maybe some techniques for that individual, right? Like someone's leaving this. like, I love what Randy has to say. This is perfect. mean, like I said, what you're saying right now is man, I'm loving it. It aligns so much with my values and what I want to put out on this podcast to improve the world.

What is the, you know, obviously go get your book, right? And then what is the, what are some initial steps when someone's like, I like this, but I, it's so foreign. Like this sounds, it's a foreign concept. I've just been showing up. I've been doing what I'm told. I've been checking the boxes. I pay my bills. I do this thing and I, you know, I make dinner. I watch TV and I go to bed. Like that's my life. I want to do it this way. Like what are those first steps?

Randy Lyman (35:21)
So first we have to realize we don't have to do it perfectly. We don't have to be right all the time. We don't have to have all the right answers. Our job as a leader is to work with the group to find solutions and implement those solutions. They don't have to come from us and people will respect us. And we show up and say, I don't have the answer. Let's work together. Help me out. People love to help. People want to be important. And people don't look at us and say, that person's weak because he admitted he doesn't know the answer. They say, no, that person's real. And that person is showing up as their genuine self.

And it's safe for me to show up as my real, genuine, authentic self. So first we have to be willing to not have all the answers and ask for help. And then the other thing that really helped me a lot is listening and I've read books and listened to tapes and be a better listener and you get two ears in one mouth and all that. Well, then finally I learned the pregnant pause. So I ask a question and I have to say,

Don't formulate an answer or my next, my response in my head. have to be able to just let that go and know I'm going to have the right thing to say when I need to. And when the person finishes speaking, give them silence. And if they don't respond, ask them, what else can you tell me? What other ideas do you have? That's really hard. That was hard for me to hold myself back. Cause I just wanted to talk. I want to tell them, I got the answer. got the right answer. Well, when I learned that, that pregnant pause, and I learned to ask for more than I learned from them.

And they shared ideas and they felt listened to and heard. And again, once they feel like they're heard, then they can hear me, but it was hard for me to stop talking so much and start listening more and to let go of the need to be right. And always respond with the right answer. They don't give a damn if I have the right answer or not. They don't care about me. They care about how much I care about them.

Sean Patton (37:02)
This is awesome. You know, it's funny because you mentioned, you know, knowing when to stop talking. I feel like this is a great place to wrap, but I have like one more question I've just got to go. All right, brother. Because this is like a reality-based thing for me. when you talk about, maybe you can explain in the simple terms for a simple mind like mine, when you talk about how these, you know, basically quantum,

Randy Lyman (37:13)
I'm here for you, whatever, whatever questions you have.

Sean Patton (37:29)
physics or quantum mechanics and the SLID experiment show us that there's multiple realities that where we create our own reality. Can you give us the scientific case that this would sound, and don't want to put words in your mouth, so if I'm wrong, I'm paraphrasing wrong, let me know that this is in a world that we're creating.

through energy that conscious, what I'm hearing is you're saying is that consciousness is creating this reality. This isn't a physical world that then created consciousness. I know this is like a big debate, so I'm just wondering what your take is.

Randy Lyman (37:58)
Okay, so I'm going to talk from general philosophy as much as science, probably more than science. When we, believe multiple lifetimes, I believe in reincarnation. I believe that we're here playing this game of forgetting that we are part of divine source. And so we're a combination of being, being this soul, spirit and human. So we're a combination of ego and soul. And at first we're just focused on ego.

It's measurable. We can touch it. We can change it. And it brings us great results. And then we get to a place where we're older, whether it's in our twenties or thirties or fifties. And we say, there's gotta be more to this than just this physical experience. And when we do that, if we can find ways to change our mindset about a problem, let's focus on something that people can measure. If they have a problem in their life and whether it's about money, whether it's about a relationship or somebody that don't get along with.

Write down the challenges around the problems. Where's the problems? don't get along with this person. And then write down what are the possible solutions and then write down what are the underlying feelings around this. So acknowledge the feelings, even if you don't feel them and then change the mindset and say, I'm going to look for positive in this person. I'm somehow there's a way in the billions of possibilities of the reality that's being created for me somewhere out there. There is a possible future where I get along with this person or at least learn to appreciate them a little bit.

So identify a problem, write it down and quantify it, feel the feelings around it, and then change the mindset. Anybody can do this. Anybody can go through this. Anybody has a arts nemesis or somebody in their family who irritates them or somebody at work who irritates them and take this on as a game. And what are you going to do? You're to say, no, I don't want this to work. Hell yes. You want this to work. We want to get along with people. We want better results. We want a better life. So take the risk where there's really no risk.

and find someone you don't get along with and find a way to visualize and write down ideas and goals about getting along with this person. And then either burn it or put it aside and look at it later and have, suspend your doubt for a little bit of time and have a belief in a possibility of a better relationship and see what happens. Anybody can experiment with this and what's going to happen? You're to have a better relationship with somebody you wanted to hate?

Sean Patton (40:01)
Yeah. So that's your experiment to demonstrate that your changing consciousness changes future realities.

Randy Lyman (40:10)
Yeah, because I can't measure things at the atomic level and I can't measure all those probabilities and write the equations, but I can change my mindset around a problem and I can visualize an outcome and I can feel the underlying emotions of doubt or failure or anger or frustration that I'm projecting onto this person. If I can work through those things and whatever level I do that's comfortable for me right now, and I have the intent, I'm going to see good results. Then those good results lead to, holy crap, this stuff is real.

And I'm going to try more of this positive thinking and working through my emotions. And what's it going to lead to? The worst is you stay the same. The best is people start realizing they can create a better reality for themselves. And that's the goal of life is to create a better reality, to get along, to not have to prove our ego is right, that these people are a problem or this is not possible. Let's prove what is possible. Let's look for the good and find the good. And that's an experiment anybody can do.

Sean Patton (41:02)
Randy, this has been awesome. Again, your book is called The Third Element. We'll make sure that the link is in the show notes. Yeah, hold it up so people can see it. That's great. And if they have, you're looking for the book and they're looking to find you. ⁓ you got a workbook with it too. Okay. Love that. Beautiful. We'll put links for that. Is there a way for them to get more like a view? it a website? Is it LinkedIn? Like how do people find how to get more tech with you?

Randy Lyman (41:16)
I have a workbook as well.

Website is the best

way to find me. So randylimon.com. They have access to free offers, access to my books and workbooks. They can see links to your podcasts and other podcasts and such. So that's the best way. And then also links to social media. Instagram is probably one of the best ways to follow me, but I'm on all the platforms.

Sean Patton (41:42)
Thanks so much for your time, Randy. This has been great.

Randy Lyman (41:44)
You're welcome, Sean. This is lot of fun.